Controversial GT5 Video Exposes A Bias At Kotaku?

mackid1993
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:50:21 PM
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It's kind of annoying that any news source would have a bias in any particular direction. (With the exception of certain things like an Apple site reporting on Microsoft, you need to expect bias there) I honestly hope that they didn't doctor anything, but by the looks of it, someone did. The people in the reflection seem to move slower and the shaking of the camera is much slower than it should be. Although if you check the Kotaku article in question (http://kotaku.com/5608849/video-shows-gran-turismo-5-has-painfully-slow-load-times) you would see that they posted an update.

"Update 2: We asked Sony about the theories that the video has been doctored to show slower load times. A spokesperson told us that no one on the GT5 product team in the U.S. had witnessed load times as slow as the one depicted in the video posted here. Has the video been altered? Was there something up with that build of GT5 that day? Does the game load its tracks that slowly? We can point to this video, cited by readers, of another pre-release version of the game loading the Nurburgring track more quickly. But we cannot confirm if the video has been altered."

Also the video that they link to is put up by Youtube user "RyukaseDVolco". If you go to that users page (http://www.youtube.com/user/RyukaseDVolco), they have a link to http://www.gt5rs.com/, a GT5 fansite, which may mean that the video isn't doctored. Also the fact that Kotaku didn't post the video may partially exonerate them.

1 up, 8 down

drew
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:01:09 AM

so basically they threw up their arms and claimed that they didnt need journalistic integrity? they essentially said that it wasnt their responsibility to make sure that the videos they post are real, which is absolutely false

9 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:52:57 AM

@Mackidd

If I was to assume that they have some kind of integrity, then I have to conclude that they are quite simply lazy and irresponsible to post a n article based on a video that they had not viewed. Talk about not doing your research...

If they had viewed the video before linking or posting to it and writing their little biased diatribe then they would not have put the article up because the video is so very clearly wrong.

On the other hand if I don't think they have any integrity (which I do not) then I would conclude that they had viewed the video. They therefore had to know that it was artificially slow, and that at very least they were posting nothing more than a journalistic troll. The whole point of the article was to flame GT5 for being so slow, so it's evident that they did in fact watch the video, but could not stop themselves from being idiots and flaming GT5 despite the video clearly being slower than it should be.

All in all, I don't believe any of their weasel worded excuses. It's clear to me (and any reasonable viewer) that the video was wrong, so why publish the story if you're not trying to generate hits and controversy? Kotaku is a very adversarial site, they like controversy, it generates lots of hits.

6 up, 1 down

Axe99
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 5:58:52 PM

Aye, Kotaku is right up there with Destructoid for me in being an attention-seeking pile of flamebait. I very, very rarely visit either site, and usually it's just to check that "they really did what?!!!", and usually they unfortunately really did.

2 up, 0 down

ShadowRunner
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:51:09 PM
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Its very obvious the video is slowed down, the reflections of visitors on the tv shows that. Unless of course that's how people move while waiting for GT5 to load!!!

13 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:55:07 PM

yup, those folks are either all high or moving in slow motion.

11 up, 4 down

coverton341
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:59:50 PM

Yeah, I just watched the video and there is a link on Youtube with the original and the guy who put it up has now added subs to state just that. Everyone is moving in slomo and it is obviously faked. How could Kotaku put that up and not even notice something as simple as that and then say that the other video they linked could possibly have been faked? I've never really had too much of a problem with that site but this is pretty blatant.

Now I am going back into hiding. Bye.

3 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:44:07 AM

@World
That's not how people who are high move! That's how people appear to move to someone that is high!

1 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:29:15 PM

Then either they are in slo mo or I'M high.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:53:29 PM
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Kotaku has always been a 360-fanboy site so no news there. It doesn't surprise me at all that they would try to make one of the biggest games of the generation out to be less than it is just for being PS3 exclusive.

17 up, 2 down

B-RadGfromOV
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:10:32 PM

Watch out for Destructoid too. They're SOO terrible about it, it isn't funny. Ever notice how 360 news gets bumped to the top of the pile, and when you read a PS3 story, it has a link for "More Xbox 360 stories".

I just don't pay any attention to these sites. Eventually people figure it out and they change their ways or lose all their readers.

11 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 1:00:17 AM

Every now and then I go to Destructoid for a laugh, I gotta tell ya it's hard to find a PS3 game above a 2 or 3. And that guy writing the articles is the most immature piece of crap in the world. It's HARD to get writing jobs, and they pay that joker?

7 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:45:14 AM

True. He gave Heavy Rain a 7/10.

0 up, 0 down

B-RadGfromOV
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:21:50 PM

Jim Sterling? Yeah he's a joke. He makes up for a lack of writing skill by using obscene language and appealing to 360 fanboys bias. People talk about him like he's a god. I just don't get it.

4 up, 0 down

Troy Powers
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:54:58 PM
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Regardless of what Kotaku says, I saw GT5 in 3D at Lollapalooza over the weekend and it was fu**ing incredible! Tell Kotaku to have a slow load of that! :D

12 up, 0 down

Qubex
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:10:59 AM

Lol Troy Powers...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

2 up, 1 down

Scarecrow
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 9:58:10 PM
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This is no news to me

It was evident since 2006/2007 that-that website was ran by a bunch of immature adults with an agenda in mind.

They probably spent a lot of money on getting their rank up high.

Visiting that site is like visiting a dumpster, full of ****

GT5 will slam down the competition in November whether Americans buy it or not *shrug*

11 up, 0 down

gangan19
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:02:25 PM

I wasn't gonna make one comment on this article, but you just made another comment worth praising.

**praise** **praise**.

6 up, 1 down

vicious54
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:03:30 AM

This American has the game pre-ordered on Amazon.

1 up, 0 down

packersfan66
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:06:10 PM
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haha well you'll definitely never find any bias against the ps3 here

5 up, 8 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:14:39 PM

Not mindless bias anyway, but if the PS3 version of a game sucks, you'll hear about it.

12 up, 0 down

main_event05
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 1:03:47 AM

Unlike Kotaku, this is a site solely for the Playstation in all it's incarnations. Even still you don't hear us, well not me cause I do, rant about MS's short comings

p.s. Microsoft is ruining gaming

14 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:49:46 AM

@Tomm
You certainly find bias from readers, but you're less likely to find bias for the sake of bias from the editor and other writers.

Obviously, as a Playstation site, it talks Playstation news. That's not bias though. Why would a Playstation Magazine or Website fill its pages with XBOX news? Again, that's not bias.

It would be bias if this site reported on a number of news items from numerous systems, and then prioritized a certain system over another for unknown reasons...

Afterall, this site has on a number of occasions made known if a PS3 version is worse than the 360 counterpart. Any regular would know that.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/11/2010 9:50:35 AM

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:00:39 AM

If, and it's a big if, something like this was posted here, I believe that not only would many in the commenting community spot the flaw and say so, but the editor would more than likely pull the article and publish an apology/ retraction/ correction instead. See the thing is, it's not really about whether the video was wrong, or even tampered with, it's about why the posted it, and how they've reacted since it was so publicly noticed as wrong. Their reaction has not been to retract, or apologize. They have sought to muddy the waters further instead of clearing them.

4 up, 1 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:09:10 PM
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So, I read this this morning over on Kotaku actually, and I immediately emailed Brian Crecente (Editor-in-Chief) at Kotaku, and had a rather brief back and forth with him.

He was actually out of the office when he first responded, but said his Deputy Totilo Stephen, would look into it (After he said I may be overstating things).

I've yet to get a response from either of them, but, I'm certainly glad this terrible, terrible bit of journalism is being noticed on other sites as well.

Good call Ben.

By the way, Mr Crecente made a point of stating, and I quote:

"Do keep in mind that if the video was tinkered with, it wasn't done so by us."

I attempted to go to GTrs, the French Site Brian Ashcroft stated that he'd gotten the clip from. But, as the entire site was in french, I couldn't really find what I was looking for.

Last edited by Mornelithe on 8/10/2010 10:11:57 PM

5 up, 2 down

mackid1993
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:16:05 PM

My comment is still pending moderator approval, but if you look click on the video you will see that it wasn't uploaded by Kotaku, but a GT5 fansite, like you stated. Kotaku even addressed this in there article and linked to a video without the slow-mo.

7 up, 2 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:18:27 PM

If you read what I wrote, I mention exactly that. Try reading more than just the first two or three sentences.

1 up, 6 down

kraygen
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:21:14 PM

Doesn't matter really if they made the video, uploaded it or what, truth is they posted it on their site as a honest reflection of the game, which it obviously was not.

9 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:23:56 PM

Exactly Kraygen, and that's exactly the point I made to Mr. Crecente, the second that video was noticed as tampered with, they should've yanked the entire article, since it completely blew the point of the article, out of the water.

It also speaks volumes, as to the lengths that Mr. Ashcroft (the man who wrote the piece), will go to verify his information, research and analysis he performs etc..

7 up, 0 down

mackid1993
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:30:30 PM

Such hostility. I did read your comment multiple times. I was simply reiterating what you said and also saying that I said what you said in the second post, my comment is still "Pending Moderator Approval" for some reason.

4 up, 1 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:34:41 PM

Wow, I'm sorry I totally read your response wrong man. This issue has my blood pumpin' lol. Seriously though, my bad.

The article shouldn't exist anymore. That's the problem. There is no point to the article, it's entire existence is actually a lie. What really irks me, though, is that they have this HUGE By-line, bemoaning the loading times of GT5, with a tiny 'update' at the bottom that recognizes there 'may' be a discrepency, but still encourages you to question it altogether.

They may have changed it by now, I'm not entirely sure. Definitely fired an email to their editor tho, and made sure he knew wtf was going on.

7 up, 0 down

mackid1993
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:41:50 PM

It's okay, don't sweat it. I personally like some of the stories on Kotaku and read them every day. While I think that they should have watched the video a bit more carefully and this particular editor may have jumped at the chance to make GT5 and possibly Sony look bad, I still think that it shows something when they update the story twice to address concerns. I do agree with you that the story is unnecessary, but what really intrigues me is the source. The video comes from a French GT5 fansite, why would they try to make GT5 look bad?

1 up, 2 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:49:23 PM

@Mackid1993:

Thanks for being a good sport, totally pulled a di** move and glad we got it squared away.

I agree it's odd that the a French GT website would have that, however, I honestly wonder exactly how the clip was advertised, as I said I don't speak/read French, so I couldn't check myself, but that is mighty peculiar.

It does show something, you're right, hwoever I still don't think there's any point in even having the article up anymore. Just that by-line popping up in searches is bad enough.

I also go to Kotaku on ocassion to read their articles, I've had issues with them in the past, and also enjoyed some of their writing in the past. But, this was simply unacceptable behavior, and I expect more out of writers.

3 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:10:06 PM

There's little to no chance anybody at Kotaku put that video up without noticing the obvious issue with the video...which can only lead me to one conclusion. That's all I'll say.

24 up, 1 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:15:30 PM

@ Ben: My thoughts exactly, I can't think of any excuse where you'd simply not notice the clear signs of slo-mo, to say nothing of the timer.

4 up, 0 down

Sir Shak
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:15:45 PM

Exactly, anyone with half a brain could judge the authenticity of that video after watching it just once.

5 up, 0 down

mackid1993
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 5:20:56 AM

So there are 2 possible reasons for this. The article was written by someone who was intentionally biased, or by someone who is lazy and stupid. Chances are it is the first one.

1 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:20:38 PM

@ Mackid1993: Or all of the above ;)

2 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:15:35 PM
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I see we have some spammers running over here to say their piece.

Me?

Kotaku stinks and only losers with no life would even bother reading the daily garbage out of their keyboards. The fact that they consider themselves "journalists" is laughable. They are just a bunch of hacks who can't write taking advantage of the Idiocracy with their ugly eyesore of a website. Biased or not, their website doesn't deserve to be successful. Also, many of these hacks are total jerks because of their success.

7 up, 2 down

kraygen
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:18:52 PM
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Wow, the lengths that people will go to, to try and make a ps3 game look bad is ridiculous. The fact that people are this obsessed with trying to make the 360 look better than ps3 is absurd.

I guess it goes to show you that some people never grow up and get a life. I would rather just acknowledge that a game is good or bad based on its own merits regardless of system, but apparently that's not the case for kotaku.

6 up, 0 down

BTNwarrior
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:18:58 PM
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Why on earth would anyone hate on Gran Turismo, even my most MS brainwashed friend has nothing but respect for it

6 up, 0 down

NightHawk17
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:24:23 PM
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To be honest I think Kotaku does have a problem with Sony and the PS3, maybe beacause of the whole leak ordeal awhile back. Kotaku used to be a site visited regularly for my news but after awhile it got annoying how the ps3 was always put done so I stopped going, like at gaming conventions they'd always believe majority of ps3 games would go multiplat and never really predict positive things for the system.

I mean if your a grown man playing fanboy instead of being a mature journalist I can go to far better places, namely here:)

Cause though we like the ps3 we also give credit to the other systems for their games and other things they have.

6 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:31:07 PM
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Often times, I have to dissect Kotaku's slant from the news they're reporting.

1 up, 0 down

GuardianMode
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:31:32 PM
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I think it has more to do with money then fanboyism. Microsoft drops alot of Ad revenue at Kotaku. My belief is that to keep their biggest cashcow happy. They slant their reviews towards the 360.

5 up, 0 down

GuardianMode
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:34:30 PM

sorry about the multi posts. My javascript seems to hate me for some reason. >.>

0 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:42:15 PM

Cool avatar, GuardianMode.
Somewhat similar to your thoughts, it really bothers me when I see IGN's advertising plastered all over the Xbox 360's dashboard. I have a hard time fully trusting a media network who's in bed with the product they're advertising on....

6 up, 0 down

FxTales
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:54:37 PM
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I had no idea how low they were. This has pretty much shocked me, I'm quite done with these blatant stabs at the ps3.

1 up, 0 down

marcusfrommo
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:54:48 PM
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is there even a trailer, not fmv cutscenes of in game action of the game? i question whether it looks that good. not so much grand turismo, but how many motorstorm games are they going to create before they make a sequel to heavenly sword. THAT game could probably give the gow series a run for it's money.as for as this generation, i think gow series is done. i know i know, it's coming out for the psp (whatever). besides infamous, what other ps3 exclusive action game does ps3 have not including 1st or 3rd person shooter? hate to change the subject, but will white knight chronicles 2 have a release date before christmas of this year?

0 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:56:39 PM

Go over to GTPlanet.com, they have tons of footage, in-game, in-cockpit, lap replays etc..

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:08:35 PM

Most if not all the footage we have seen is of ingame.

Yes. GT5 Looks.That.Good.

5 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:46:02 PM

Avoid GTPlanet

Go to Gran Turismo's official site
Just google it

1 up, 0 down

kraygen
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:41:17 AM

As far as I know, no us release date has been given, but the game just came out last month in japan, so probly not until spring at the earliest for us, which is sad.

1 up, 0 down

sirbob6
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:34:47 PM

@Karygen
They already said it'd be arriveing this fall, November I belive.

0 up, 0 down

kraygen
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 11:54:05 PM

give us a link to that info, because I couldn't find it anywhere.

0 up, 0 down

marcusfrommo
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:59:04 PM
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nighthawk, nighthawk, do you know where i can get the english subtitled version off gatchaman? i heard the uncensored version is or can be pretty intense. and is the subtitled version more like today's manga, like a soap opera? or is it like american's version of justice league? please if you have any info, please respond. thank you.

0 up, 0 down

Nynja
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 10:59:31 PM
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I'm not pointing any fingers, but check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isNbJJBxW0U&feature=player_embedded#!

It's the original video footage and normal speed. Take note the length of the video.

Now if you watch the Kotaku video, fast forward to 3:20 seconds. What time does the audio cut out?

Someone doctored the video. They slowed down the video playback but were not able to adjust the audio.

Last edited by Nynja on 8/10/2010 11:04:51 PM

5 up, 0 down

Dealnightfire
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:01:30 PM
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Kotaku is showing really bad journalism. The video is slowed for sure but since the video itself is being question on if it has been tampered with a definitive statement can not be made either way.
The poor journalism comes with the fact that they can update the title to make the article to be more of a question but yet the title is still "Video Shows Gran Turismo 5 Has Painfully Slow Load Times [Update 2]". So even though the video is in question =, Kotaku still has made up their mind that the video is real and the load times are genuine. The headline is biased and shows the nature of that considering they have changed headlines before.
It makes me sad that wouldn't at least try to preserve some credibility.

3 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:05:02 PM
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Even during the races the vid is slowed down, you can tell from the timer on the right.

I've done a few youtube videos, including building a video from scratch in iMovie (i know... but i cant afford Final Cut). Not one of them has been slowed down by any interference. Nor has any other video on youtube. Often the audio and video will not sync up, but nobody in their right mind will believe a video spontaneously decides to slow itself down. Pretending it did is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

I actually used to read Kotaku to catch up on news that PSXE doesnt post (mostly wii and pc stuff), but it seems that all Gawker sites are going downhill fast. Lifehacker seems to be the only one worth reading these days.

0 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:11:49 PM

*Timer at the top

Its been a long day.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:20:17 PM

What is this imovie you speak of? I would like to make movies of some sort. I've only ever made one AMV in my life and I think I used some MS piece of trash to make it.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:07:17 PM
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I should be surprised but I'm not. Unfortunantly this isn't beneath those fanboy Xbots over at Kotaku or any other Xbot website. I never liked Kotaku and this just adds to the reasons.

6 up, 1 down

Sir Shak
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:10:34 PM
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There's nothing supposed about it, Ben. The video is definitely doctored.

2 up, 0 down

hellish_devil
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:29:58 PM
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I mean, who cares??? This kotaku article is supposed to go to the xbots, who won't be able to buy the game anyway. And Sony fans know best than kotaku, so it really doesn't matter.

Anyway, I'll get this game eventually, next year maybe. Also I was thinking... how can trophies for a GT be?? I think getting a platinum would be really hard and/or time consuming

Last edited by hellish_devil on 8/10/2010 11:30:47 PM

0 up, 4 down

Scarecrow
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:53:02 PM

Who cares? Real game journalists do, as well as "serious" gamers.

This kind of BS should not be tolerated

5 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, August 10, 2010 @ 11:54:37 PM
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OK, this smells of three day old kippers that have been left in the sun too long. Not only is the video that Kotaku obviously slower in general than it should be by about 40%, it slows even more during the loading screen. Seriously, it makes GT5 look utterly ponderous.

No offense to the guys and gals over at Kotaku, but there is no excuse for this. You could see just from the lap time as they run the lap that the lap clock runs too slowly. Did no one see this fundamental problem? Worse than that, the video slows further during the loading screen and damn if it doesn't sound like the sound was doctored with so it didn't sound like it had been slowed. The modification to the video is so obvious and clearly intended to cause a problem, I can't see how the folks at Kotaku can claim that this was an accident. Either they are crack addled robots who publish the first sensational crap that comes in to generate hits, or they are are biased as can be and are taking out their frustrations on the PS3.

Considering the recent piece on Ars Technica about PS3 firmware updates by Ben Kuchera, someone who I used to consider was a balanced 'journalist', it seems that the gaming and tech media is winding up into another round of Anti-Sony bias and Microsoft sycophancy so that Kinect can have a successful launch.

Whatever the reasons, Kotaku needs to just apologize for it, post a retraction and post an undoctored video.

Pathetic what passes for journalism these days.

Last edited by Highlander on 8/10/2010 11:56:07 PM

7 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:00:01 AM

The Eye of the Moron...?

Maybe my article on game journalism mirroring internet stupidity was prophetic.

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:53:08 AM

The Eye of Moron.

Definitely.

Sad isn't it?

All hail the all seeing prophet Ben of Dukta...

;)

Seriously, I think you may well have called it with that editorial.

Last edited by Highlander on 8/11/2010 12:55:15 AM

3 up, 3 down

telly
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:52:57 AM

I think you touch on exactly what the issue is here -- Internet journalists react so quickly, are so hellbent on getting content out ASAP and scooping the competition that mistakes like this get made. No sensible person thinks Brian Ashcraft twirled his mustache, laughed, and said "now's my chance to undermine Sony!" and post a video he knew was tampered with. I know, as a former reporter myself, the insane pressure everyone is under to get stories, updates, content in general online ASAP. Waiting five minutes too long on something hot may well mean your competition posts it before you do. And then you're screwed.

I just hope all journalists, especially in the alarmingly reactive and subjective video game journalism realm, take note of this and realize they need to THINK before they post something like this. Journalism 101 -- verify the truth of what someone is telling you. Some kid sends you a video that he claims shows GT5 running at subpar levels? You MUST verify the video is real before committing libel against Sony. Boom.

Man, I should be a reporter again :)

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:55:29 AM

@Telly,

I'd agree with you except for the really, really, really poor way they have handled the fall out and obvious reveal that the video is at very least wrong. Instead of simply saying, yes folks we screwed up, they've posted that they asked Sony for comment and then left it open. That's not the way a responsible journalist reacts to posting obviously false information, is it?

2 up, 0 down

telly
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:03:20 AM

It seems to me they're doing now what they should have done the first time -- before making proclamations one way or the other about anything, confirm with Sony, directly, that the video is tampered with. Crazy as it sounds in this case, you shouldn't run a correction until you are 100 percent straight on the facts. Let's give them a little more time and see what happens. If this doesn't get resolved soon, then yes, we have a major journalism failure here. Potentially more concerned with saving face than getting the facts straight. It's interesting stuff, tosay the least.

1 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:12:55 AM

I have to disagree again simply because of their own words.

From Kotaku's updated article "Update 2: We asked Sony about the theories that the video has been doctored to show slower load times. A spokesperson told us that no one on the GT5 product team in the U.S. had witnessed load times as slow as the one depicted in the video posted here. "

Now, if that had been the end of it, great, we could have waited for more information, but no, they go on...

"Has the video been altered? Was there something up with that build of GT5 that day? Does the game load its tracks that slowly?"

The first question is a good one, and it's possible it was not. However why ask the second and third questions? All they do is add further confusion.

The last point I would make is that if they have watched the video through, when the player drives the track and the lap time counter is running, you can run your own stop watch and see the time differential clearly demonstrating that the video is too slow. There is no need to contact Sony and ask them about a video they didn't publish. There is no need to ask rhetorical questions about the game. all that's needed is to say, "Yep, we re-watched the viedo and it's clearly not playing at the right speed, the lap time display clearly demonstrates that. Sorry guys, we were wrong."

If they want to be 100% sure, 5 minutes with a watch and the video playing on a PC should be sufficient.

1 up, 0 down

telly
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:21:37 AM

I see what you're saying. I think those final questions they posted onto the update were just to stirrup the comments section, but I do think they are fair questions -- was this video actually altered by some d-bag out there? Or was this a real video from an earlier, much slower build of the game? I do agree with you that it seems clear Kotaku presented the video as an accurate reflection of the "true" build of the game (read: the current, near-final build that's dropping jaws) when there's no reason at all to think it is.

1 up, 0 down

telly
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:24:47 AM

And to be clear, they should note that they were wrong here posting it in the first place. Honest mistake, I'm sure, but a mistake nonetheless and one that could have been easily avoided.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:45:07 AM

You're right, it could have been an honest mistake. That's the saddest part though, they could have handled it so differently, and didn't.

0 up, 0 down

BlackBriar
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:39:37 AM
Reply

The Kotaku article(s) were clearly Bad Journalism, Its that simple! and got called out on it, Bravo! Nevertheless GT5 will be amazing, And come this November the whole world will know about it.

0 up, 0 down

johnld
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:52:48 AM
Reply

kotaku biased? this was new? even their community is filled with 360 fanboys. i stated some facts about a picture on the site and i got bombarded with fanboys calling me an idiot.....for pointing out something that was very clear in the picture.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:56:25 AM

Kotaku is like many gaming site, it is largely populated by the eye of Moron's minions who will always react with hostility to any dissenting view, no matter how valid, accurate, factual or sensible it is.

2 up, 1 down

Robochic
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:08:13 AM
Reply

Not suprised by this websites bad taste of fanboyish ways. If people want "REAL gaming journalism" I direct them right here and I have had tons of friends say how much they love this site, also direct them to the playstation mag as well if they don't have the access to internet (friends all work nights)

this kind of crap makes any form of gaming journalism look horrible i think this website needs to write an appology letter to everyone including sony for their stupid behavior. we all know that won't happen!

1 up, 0 down

RebelJD
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:31:21 AM
Reply

Racing fans, PS3 supporters, and everyone else who can't live without the best product, better make this game a MEGA hit. It's one thing for a product to be critically acclaimed, but it's another for it to be a mega hit. Either more people need to be able to get their hands on a PS3 or more need to convert over. Uncharted 2 and God of War 3 should have done double-triple the numbers they have. Will Gran Turismo 5 fall in the same line as those games? Or will people finally start crazing over the PS3? Let's hope they craze.

That Kotaku video is lame. I don't understand why a team would deliberately try to make a product look bad. The whole "I told you so" scheme is child's play. People need to grow up and act their age or get their ass kicked. Simple as that.

2 up, 0 down

Xombito
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:43:19 AM
Reply

@Highlander. I read that article on Arse Tech. It was simply a rant that no jounalistic value. We all know updates aren't even as as bad as that "article" states. Heck, it even teaches the reader to be less patient and not manage his time.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:58:00 AM

The writer of that piece used to be relatively fair and objective, but has become more and more blatantly biased over the last couple of years. It's a crying shame because Ars Technica used to be a great place to go for tech and gaming news.

As for the firmware thing, some of the problems people have with downloading from PSN seems to stem - at least in some cases - from ISP traffic shaping like what Comcast does to slow down or break peer to p2p and torrent sharing. Seems that some ISPs have a bad case of anti-PS3 bias too.

However since Sony is obviously trying to do incremental updates, worrying about them should be a thing of the past now.

Last edited by Highlander on 8/11/2010 3:00:12 AM

1 up, 1 down

___________
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 3:39:36 AM
Reply

oh the irony!
let the conspiracy theories begin!

0 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:09:48 AM

Let's hear your most recent. I'm up for your daily 11am or 11:15am theories if you like. Today I'll have to pass on your noon-hour conspiracy theories, however.

I think the issue is that you don't know what a conspiracy theory is. The problem going on here isn't about whether a particular site is out to get us. It's about how the video is clearly altered, and if a site claims to have journalistic integrity, they need to find an actual WORKING video.

Go watch the video, for crap's sake.

The next issue with Kotaku and this video is the fact that they are not being responsible about the update. They just simply aren't being 100% honest. Maybe the video's issue isn't their fault, fine. But they need to make the journalistic adjustments to set the story straight. That, they are not doing, which is why many of us are ticked at them. Any professional news site will come back with updated items stating that the previously reported facts were actually not accurate, and they would do all they can to get the real facts.

Kotaku just goes on record saying, "Oh, something might be wrong with it, but we can't tell. Anyways, it's not even our video, so..." So basically, their integrity is shot because they have a potentially shoddy video even they aren't sure of, but they aren't going through the steps to find one that is good. Similarly, they haven't adjusted their article title or information enough. They still claim without a doubt that the video is cheese, but then later have a disclaimer saying, oh by the way, it might be bad, but whatever...

Basically, they're telling us they don't care if it's true or false.

It's not a conspiracy theory... it's amateurish journalism.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/11/2010 10:16:51 AM

3 up, 0 down

___________
Thursday, August 12, 2010 @ 7:43:33 AM

so?
why get your knickers in a knot over something so stupid!?
honestly, they could say GT5 has graphics like sonic 2 for all i care!
if people are stupid enough to believe that video is real time than they deserve everything they get.

0 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Thursday, August 12, 2010 @ 1:23:08 PM

Well then... I guess journalistic integrity is irrelevant then... /sarcasm/

There is so much wrong with everything you say... ever. and ever. eternally wrong! lol

First of all... of all people to make a snide comment about conspiracy theorists...

Secondly, you dismiss a lack of journalistic integrity with a statement that essentially translates to, "If people are dumb enough to believe it, they deserve to hear shoddy news stories." What's wrong with your hydrocarbon fried brain? What's funny, is that you are a victim of your own way of thinking. How many times have we all had to sift through the swamp that is your thoughts? How many inaccurate "truths" have you sputtered here now that are entirely unfactually based?

So basically, you would suggest that if people are relatively gullible, they deserve to be lied to by journalists? I just don't get your porous and tangled way of thinking, man... It's like a thought pops into your head, and you spew without thinking through the logistics of anything...

ARG!!!!

1 up, 0 down

Kai200X
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:01:19 AM
Reply

Kotaku is my 2nd most visited site after PSX and it's well known their main guy Brian whoever his last name is don't like Sony. I watched his segment on GT talking about God of War III and he said he's not very excited about the game... hmm okay whatever. Then again on GT talking about this year's E3 and he thought M$ did better than Sony? Wow! Talk about bias. So there you have it.

4 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:18:45 AM

I don't think Microsoft did better than anyone... I'm not into water rafting on my carpet. Why couldn't they just show off this years XBOX rpg's or something interesting besides shooters?

2 up, 0 down

RadioHeader
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:42:15 AM
Reply

Bullsh*ttery is the sincerest form of flattery.

2 up, 0 down

Kiryu
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:51:03 AM
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Microsoft's scared.Gran Turismo 5 will sell millions!

5 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 5:04:35 AM
Reply

Ok, as if something like that is gonna stop me from buying GT5, EVEN IF IT'S REAL! But hell no, think Yama is gonna make a half-assed product?

I'm sure PD have used the delay to add in new stuff as well as polishing it.

I'm sure more articles about this is coming.
I can already see the headline, "GT5 sufferring the same loading problem with Modnation Racer?"

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:37:03 AM

The thing is, there is no "even if it is real", because it's not, it was faked.

1 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:41:39 AM

Lol, true.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:14:15 AM

Sorry, I should correct, I shouldn't say it was faked, but the video is clearly wrong, and the article is false. That's a bit more accurate. Wouldn't want to cause any accusations of bias on my part... ;)

0 up, 1 down

Mavfan321
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 7:27:57 AM
Reply

Kotaku, IGN, Gamespot, AMERICA, get in line, the bias against Sony and PS3 this gen is ridiculous. I will put it this way when PS1 and PS2 were around they were king of the castle (especially PS2 of course essentially as successful as a home console needs to be) PS3 comes and for some reason so did the hate due mostly to it being 600 bucks when people already owned 360's. There 360's all broke twice and yet they decided instead of investing in a quality machine (which at the start wasn't at full potential) with a failure rate not nearly as high, they decided to pledge allegiance, as did gaming companies (shitty ports, to ok ports even my favorite current game and maybe this gen SSF4 is a port of the 360 version) due to Sony's bad jump out of the gate. Now we can say we have all these exclusives etc... and Xbots which have also infiltrated gaming media have their argument of Live and Halo Gears of War etc... And so a bias is created when in fact there are merits to owning all systems of a generation, hell Dreamcast was an all out failure eventually but it's very much a system worth owning. I think the main problem with the Anti Sony (PS3) media bias isn't so much just that it's a bias, it's bad media, fair and balanced even in gaming media is the way to go, of course some specialty sites exist but even Ben always shows his love for Gears and such, no bias needed he enjoys the games, that's what it's all about games in spite of the system they are on. Kotaku is pretty much the most biased site out there however as their reporting is completely unprofessional and have gone as far as having blatant homosexual images posted along with minor PS3 news. It's a shame.

4 up, 0 down

JackC8
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 7:54:01 AM
Reply

You can see from the comparison of the two videos that the text scrolling across the top of the screen is going at very different speeds. In the bottom video it takes about 7 seconds for the text to scroll all the way across, in the top video, well over 13. And that's just the portion of the screen you can see. And the people in the background are obviously moving in slow motion.

Pretty pathetic. But I guess that's just how pathetic some people's lives are - nothing better to do than doctor videos of games. And then "report" on it. Oh well, GT5 is pre-ordered and I've never been to that kotaku website.

3 up, 0 down

dante_zero
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 8:25:15 AM
Reply

having played gran turismo 5 i think i should chip my two cents in. Regardless of wether the video is a fake, GT5 does have some loading times depending on the track you play. I noticed that it took longer to load Nurenburg track that it did with the Rome circuit. However i will say that GT5 has the best graphics of any game to date period and the short wait for the track to load becomes irrelevant as soon as you start the race. Believe me when i say GT5 really is THAT GOOD. Haters will hate and spectors will speculate but regardless of fanboyism once GT5 the finished product is released it will stand up for itself against stupid flame wars and baised sites. (here's looking at you destructiod,eurogamer cough cough).

If anyones is interested when i attended the beta rooms event i was allowed to record footage of GT5 on my phone which wasent the greatest quality but the footage i posted on youtube is raw and unedited. i even tried filming through the 3D specs although it didnt seem to work too much. If you are interested in having a look at the footage i took unedited check out my youtube channel. www.youtube.com/theordinaryukgamer and make out for yourself what you think of the footage i took of the game. I state my reputation as a ninja gamer that the stuff i recorded of GT5 is unedited and you will probably see that from the noise going on around me while recording.

Last edited by dante_zero on 8/11/2010 8:27:29 AM

1 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:41:43 AM

LOL! The Nordschleife course is by far the longest track in the game at more than 12 miles long. It's not really a surprise it takes longer top load than others.

1 up, 0 down

Arvis
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 11:15:48 AM

I friggin love that track. Most fun in the game, by far.

One of my favorite memories of GT4 was racing my girlfriend two laps around the Nurburgring, the race was so close, she beat me by 1.5 seconds. I let her have the Supra to take me on in a factory Volvo S4 sedan.

It was hilariously awesome fun, giving myself a handicap like that on an intense course where I could take advantage with my superior driving skills, but then she kept it close enough to always close the gap on that mile-long straightaway with the Supra's superior speeds.

Man... good times.

-Arvis

Last edited by Arvis on 8/11/2010 11:16:29 AM

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:56:29 PM

I always thought that was one of the crowning achievements on the PS2. A complete implementation of that 12.9 mile stretch of awesome in 1080i on a console with 32MBB of RAM, and no HDD so the entire track was streamed from the DVD. A console that wasn't supposed to be able to do anything HD, or even do progressive scan (older models). Yet my original phat PS2 from eons ago ran it perfectly. Superb.

1 up, 0 down

JackC8
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:00:14 PM

Nice video - thanks for posting that! I'm very glad they went back to having the car rotating while you choose what color you want, instead of Prologue where you were getting those tight shots of the roof and stuff. Didn't like that at all :)

0 up, 0 down

Mr Bitey
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:44:46 AM
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Kotaku has a long history of being biased towards the PS3.

For example - After E3 the only thing they managed to take away from Sony's show was, "Sony if forcing us to buy 3D TVs."

They must have wrote at least 5 articles based on that single premise alone.

Kotaku has lost all objectivity ages ago.

4 up, 0 down

maxpontiac
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:06:46 AM
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I know I shouldn't care about this type of stuff due to it being a waste of energy, but man, this stuff irritates me.

Good news is, the list of websites that get my attention is shrinking fast.

4 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:28:36 AM
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I know GT5 probably wont have those drastic long loading sequences, but imagine everyone's reaction f the final game DID have those loading times, or even worse. That would kill the game AND Polyphony.

0 up, 0 down

dante_zero
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:39:47 AM
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i just looked on kotaku right now and oh my days they are at it again this time slating the psp. although you can tell they are doing it with caution this time.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:43:17 AM

Let me guess, they are demonstrating by comparing sales against the DS that the PSP is failing and then claiming - as always - that it has no games? Good god, they've run that story at least twice a year since the PSP launched.

LOL!

2 up, 1 down

The CEO
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:46:00 AM
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I dont really think Kotaku edited the video themselves. If they did would they have updated the story so quick? They read the comments from readers then updated it well before the aggrigate news sites like N4G picked it up. I dont know what the guya few boxes abovethis was talking about with Kotakus Sony E3 coverage it was all equal, well maybe some bias with Nintendo winning E3 supposedly. That being said Kotaku is just like PSX Extreme with a good staff that will actually reply back to emails so shoot them a line. I have several times uuually to complain and cuss at the writers. Take it up with them. They should really have caught the reflections in the TV that made everyone look straight out of the Matrix. I noticed it immediately. If that was not enough the banner going at two speeds is a dead giveaway LOL. Human error plain and simple.

1 up, 1 down

Mornelithe
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:46:06 AM
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"Update 3: As can be seen in the embed, the creators of the video now say that the clip was slowed down. Scrutinizing the timer that appears in the driving part of the clip, we agree that the video appears to be slowed down and is not running at full speed. We apologize for any confusion or consternation caused by our mistake." - Kotaku

And yet....the article still remains.

Last edited by Mornelithe on 8/11/2010 10:47:32 AM

8 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 10:54:50 AM

LOL!

"Scrutinizing the timer that appears in the driving part of the clip, we agree that the video appears to be slowed down and is not running at full speed."

How long did it take for them to do this? They contacted Sony before doing this? They have yet to retract?

Total amateurs.

4 up, 1 down

maxpontiac
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 11:16:26 AM

Man, that is rich. What a joke!!

3 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:16:26 PM

Christ, they won't even man up and admit it?

'sigh' Whatever.

5 up, 0 down

telly
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:21:30 PM

Wow! That's pretty bad. Retraction totally warranted. There's nothing worse than the reporter who won't admit they screwed up. It's one of the biggest problems with the industry today. Nobody's perfect -- just ADMIT you made a mistake! Lame.

4 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:44:01 PM

They're not journalists

They're just amateurs whose site just happened to be heavily funded when they started their site.

I hope they keep messing up like this, it's good to see them show their true colors :D Some eventually not start to take them seriously again.

Next time they should make an article 'bout how The Last Guardian will go to 360

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:50:59 PM

@Scarecrow, didn't they run one of those about Uncharted?

2 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:55:59 PM

I wonder if the retraction they'll undoubtedly have to print because of this, will hurt any less than this article has to Ashcrofts reputation.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:01:57 PM

See below. As of this evening the AU site hadn't updated the story on their end. I emailed them and they fixed it, though just as half assed as the US story. I doubt well see a full retraction. I demanded they retract the story and issue a full correction and apology. They ignored my request.

1 up, 0 down

Dustinwp
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 12:38:09 PM
Reply

I expect this type of article from Luke Plunkett or Brian Crecente, because their bias idiots. But this being a Brian Ashcraft article is surprising. I would love to make a comment on their site, but I got banned for having some choice words for Luke Plunkett. Oh well,
PSXExtreme is the only site I care to read and comment in anyway.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 8/11/2010 12:46:28 PM

1 up, 0 down

dante_zero
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 1:25:57 PM
Reply

i only ever check their site for just breaking headlines, i dont tend to read too heavyily into what their personal thoughts are because its just not psxetreme. For the 4 years i've been coming to this sight i've always had appreciation and repest for arnold and ben because they not influenced by huge marketing dollars or product placement. More so is that every review is thought through and each reviewer backs their points with valid points and are respectful of comments. not creeping or owt just stating why sites like psxetreme are rare and valuable for gamers.

0 up, 0 down

Alienange
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 2:13:19 PM
Reply

This is an outrage! You mean to tell me that a video game site might be bias?! Unthinkable!

ahem...

Yeah, they're jerks.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 6:58:37 PM

This is beyond bias. This is a deliberate attempt to mislead the readers. Bias towards or against something is one thing, an attempt to lie and destroy someone or somethings credibility is another.

2 up, 0 down

FlyingKickPunch
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:08:47 PM
Reply

Kotaku blows dogs for quarters.
GT5 will speak for itself. Come November 2nd, there will be no dispute what the best racing sim on the planet is. 'Nuff said. :)

1 up, 2 down

Highlander
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:29:19 PM

The first line....was not really necessary was it? Could you maybe have found a better way to dismiss Kotaku than resorting to bestiality?

Last edited by Highlander on 8/11/2010 4:30:49 PM

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 4:30:24 PM

Oh, come ON.

1 up, 1 down

fluffer nutter
Thursday, August 12, 2010 @ 12:17:18 AM

What do you have against animals? Ruff!

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 6:57:28 PM
Reply

Pathetic. Kotaku AU hasn't corrected the story on their end yet. they didn't even bother to post these half assed updates the US site posted.

Truly pathetic.

2 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 @ 9:00:12 PM
Reply

LOL! i emailed the editors at Kotaku AU and they promptly replied and updated the AU story with the US "corrections."

Still no admission that they either attempted to mislead people or made a mistake but glad to see them respond with haste non the less.

2 up, 1 down

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Controversial GT5 Video Exposes A Bias At Kotaku?

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