Two More Used Game Retailers: Best Buy And Target

The used game business is insanely lucrative for GameStop, so it's no surprise that other huge retailers want a piece of that expanding pie.

Game publishers are still waging war against the second-hand game market - the game makers would like to actually make some money when their game is sold again and again - but that's not the issue, here. All you need to know is that GameStop is no longer the only used-game retailer in town: both Target and Best Buy have started their own second-hand game programs. GameStop CEO Paul Raines mentioned in a conference call that his company hadn't been affected by other retailers like Amazon, Toys R Us, and Wal-Mart entering the used game market, but maybe Target and Best Buy can have an impact. Target's program is part of a "larger consumer electronics service program that also includes a new product-support helpline and mobile-phone business." For now, the used game part is only available at Northern California store locations, but Target plans to make trade-ins possible at all of their 850 stores across the country before 2010 is over. You got one nearby, right?

Target will offer in-store credit for their games, depending on the title and its condition, and they'll also do online trade-ins. Best Buy will allow gamers to buy and sell used titles in their 600 stores as of August 29; you'll get your compensation in the form of a gift card, which can be used for anything in the store, and any used games purchased will be covered by Best Buy's return policy. Of course, what's most important to us is how much these retailers will give us for those trades; GameStop used to offer about half of what they'll turn around and sell it for, but they're down to about 1/3 of the used sale price. ...sort of annoying, and one of the reasons the retailer has made billions from the used game market.

Tags: used games, target, best buy, used video games

8/26/2010 8:52:13 PM John Shepard

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Comments (81 posts)

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Jawknee
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 9:49:42 PM
Reply

I stopped trading my games because Gamestop gives you dirt for perfectly good games. Sometimes in as good condition as a new game. I'm anal about keeping my CDs, movies and games clean and scratch free.

A buddy of mine bought Resisntance Fall of Man for 30 new. He didn't like it so he went to trade it a week later at Gamestop, they gave him $6. Lame.

It will be interesting seeing how Target and Best Buy approach this. I like Target. Best Buy not so much.

Last edited by Jawknee on 8/26/2010 9:52:37 PM

9 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:35:01 PM

Ebay or nothing I say.

3 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:07:13 AM

if i sell it's alway on amazon. screw gamestop.

4 up, 0 down

shadowpal2
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 10:00:11 AM

Talk about it man! - I had a game called Kingdom of Paradise for the PSP IN BRAND SPANKING NEW MINT CONDITION - have I played the game, yes about 2-3 times but then I didn't really like it.

So there I was at the Gamestop store and I saw a new Kingdom of Paradise for about $40. So I thought hmm...it should fall around that price...$27 at the least for my game.

"Uh....we'll give you $3.49"
Me inside the store: Uhh nevermind then
Me outside the store: GO **** YOURSELVES you just lost a potential max of $13.

Now of course that sounds kind of pathetic - but honestly - sell online, screw Gamestop with their M$ fanboys here and there, their lies, and their underpricing of your games.

But hey - I love buying used PS2 games from them - STEAL every time. And I remember about a year or so back...I got Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions for $9.99 - they were having some sort of special sale then. But hey it was a pretty good steal.

0 up, 0 down

Zorigo
Saturday, August 28, 2010 @ 7:53:31 AM

Its basically Game in the UK. they give you sh*t for your games. ebay is the way

0 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 9:50:34 PM
Reply

Best Buy Canada has been trading/selling used games for some time up here. I didn't know that they hadn't brought the program to U.S. stores yet.

Last edited by n/a on 8/26/2010 9:50:52 PM

3 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:48:10 PM

brighat1971,
So how are their trade-in prices, are they fair or not?????

1 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:24:21 AM

There are a few national retailers that have been accepting trade-ins for as long as two years now. In addition to Best Buy there is Future Shop, Rogers Video and I've even heard Walmart (though I've only read that about Walmart once, as I never shop there). Mostly they advertise a $40 trade-in value in store credit for a recent ($60) game.

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fluffer nutter
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:41:37 PM

Walmart also has a new game store, inside several Super Walmarts over on the east coast. They're trying it out there before they consider adding them across the country. I saw pictures of GoW III C.E. for $30. Crazy stuff.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:02:41 PM
Reply

I think this is all good because it provides what Gamestop needs most: competition. They bought out every used game store, but they can't buy out Target and Best Buy.

However, I wonder how long it will be before they just make it so each game will only work with one system. Hell they already do it with saves. That would guarantee full price sales. I like companies like ubisoft whose games fall in price quickly anyway, unlike Actipoopvision whose games are full price for years.

Wait, there's only 800 Targets in the nation? I can't swing a dead cat without hitting one nearby.

6 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:08:22 AM

i have at least 4 by me within a 5 mile radius.

1 up, 0 down

fluffer nutter
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:42:56 PM

I did a double take when I saw that 850 number too. I've got 10 that I can hit up locally. If I go an additional ten minutes further, I can hit another 10.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:13:43 PM
Reply

I think that this is an incredibly stupid move by the retailers who are literally biting the hand that feeds them. This is a bad move for the industry as a whole.

You all know how I feel about used game sales, this news simply reinforces my concerns about whether developers and publishers are getting their fair share. This will drive developers and publishers to make more of their games with online only components that used buyers will have to pay directly for. It will also spur more downloadable games on Live and PSN.

I shall say *nothing* more on this topic.

3 up, 4 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:18:31 PM

locking games and giving them way more restrictions

I can definitely see this messing up the industry

Gamers are too simple minded, "OMG it's so cheap let me buy it!"

1 up, 2 down

NoSmokingBandit
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:32:13 PM

Meh. Every other industry in the world is getting along just fine with 2nd hand sales. And they arent even trying to screw over the 2nd owner!

Good news though, Gamestop needs some competition. $55 for a used game is BS, even if it is only a week old. Seriously, i saw a copy of Bioshock for $55 used at my gamestop.

4 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:11:29 AM

used game sales is nothin new. where were these game industries years ago? i can tell you i don't recall ever buying a brand new genesis or snes game.

3 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:07:53 PM

I remember as a kid, saving up change in order to buy a used copy of Sonic 2. I'd be pissed if i got it home and Sega disabled the last 3 levels until i sent them some cash. BS.

2 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:27:52 PM

it's like now the companies are so greedy. they've already recieved money from the first person buying it. if games were 50 dollars instead of 60 dollars more people would buy new.

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 3:14:05 PM

Well, in truth, the music industry already made their moves to remedy the second hand industry. It didn't kill it, but second hand sales certainly isn't a powerhouse.

Movies and tv dvd's don't care because the income is just gravy anyways. They've already made their killing or lack thereof in theatres and prime time, and dvd sales simply create a little longevity on their return. But it's never been substantial. So they'll do nothing for a long time. In many cases, they've simply ridden on the coattails of music. (Movies and tv on the itunes store, for example)

Games used sales is proving to be an incredibly huge market. Their mistake is partly that they're dealing with it a little poorly, but mostly their mistake is not dealing with it AGES ago in a better way. Music started countering this stuff like 10-15 years ago. Why the hell is gaming only starting NOW!?!?

There's a lot of people to blame for these charges.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/27/2010 3:15:07 PM

0 up, 0 down

Alienange
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:31:13 PM
Reply

They're adding stink aisles to my favorite stores? This is sad news indeed. I hope it's in the back somewhere so I don't have to see and smell all that trash while I'm trying to buy my new games.

5 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:36:53 PM

::teehehehe::

You buy your games at brick'n mortar stores!?

3 up, 0 down

MyWorstNightmar
Saturday, August 28, 2010 @ 12:09:05 PM

I didn't know you could by games at Home Depot... ; )

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:37:37 PM
Reply

I know this has been a growing story but did you guys ever mention Amazon is doing this too? I forget.

3 up, 0 down

DeejayDeez
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:06:33 AM

They do, but the value really only comes with wii games for some reason. You can still get almost $30 for the New Super Mario Bros., but most PS3 games aren't even close...example RDR trade in value with amazon is only $26...so maybe wii games resell better?

1 up, 0 down

StangMan80
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 10:56:55 PM
Reply

I think selling/trading in your Used games at retailers is stupid. They always sell it for 4 to 5 times as much for what they give you.

It's better to sell it your self on craiglist or something.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:36:58 PM

Ebay is your friend.

3 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:27:24 AM

eBay is the best for both buying and selling used games. I bought something used on ebay once (i cant remember what it was) and i paid $30 for it. That means i spent $30, the seller made ~$28 and eBay got about $2. And USPS made about $2 too, lol.

Had i bought that at Gamestop i would have paid ~$40, the original seller would have gotten about $15, and gamestop goes home $25 richer.

For the most part i dont really care who makes money on the sale (yay for capitalism), but there are so many better ways to buy/sell games than Gamestop.

3 up, 1 down

SvenMD
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:22:33 PM
Reply

I can't bring myself to trade in any of my games. For one, they will never give me enough money to make it worth it; and then SOMEDAY in the future I will want to play it again and I will kick myself for getting rid or it.

I like my games sitting on my shelf where they belong. (Screw you too digital download man!)

1 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:25:03 PM
Reply

Good, while I'm usually reluctant to sell my games to said businesses,--their buy-back rates are absurdly low--I'll enjoy having more locations supplying used games for purchase. Heck, I just picked up DMC4 for $9.99 used, in decent condition, too.

0 up, 1 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:45:50 PM

Temjin001,

Good deal!

I often stop guy's just before they get into Gamestop to trade in their games & stuff.

And so far I've picked up DMC 1,2,& 3 for only $15 off of one guy.

A mint PSP1000 with a memory stick inside for $20 off another.

And another guy recently sold me 15 xbox games, 6 GameCube games and a bunch of gaming accessories for $10.

Damn, I wish I had the time to stand in front of Gamestop all day long, I'd be a lot cash poor'er than I am now, but much the richer in gaming inventory.

"And I'd need a bigger truck"

0 up, 0 down

RebelJD
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:29:30 PM
Reply

Used games in Target and Best Buy is going to look tacky.

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:32:58 PM
Reply

I've never traded in any game, anywhere, and I'd especially never trade one in to Gamestop.

And I only buy either when they're older & down to my $20 price-point, or when they're either having a power sale, or a buy 2 get 1 free deal on new games.
And even then buying new, I've never paid more than $80MAX for all 3 brand new games together.

Anyway, just as Worls stated, I believe Target & Best Buy's new used sales will "FORCE" Gamestop into doing a much fairer trade-in & used re-sale policy too.

3 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:38:36 PM

I stopped selling my games in JrHigh thankfully. A lot of my friends are now upset that all their old game collections were sold long ago for booze or McDonald's.

3 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:09:00 AM

lol @ game collection being sold for booze and mcdonalds.

0 up, 0 down

booze925
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 5:40:06 PM

u sold games 4 me??
u shouldn't have! :)

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:38:24 PM
Reply

I bought Trinity Universe off ebay used for $40, as soon as I realized it sucked blue donkey balls I promptly sold it off (on ebay) for $45. Gamestop would have given me like ten bucks. Nuts to that, I hope the competition makes them sweat, but I will keep to my used games from online I think.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:40:22 PM

I hated Rogue Galaxy and listed it on Ebay the same day I bought it from Gamestop (what was that like early 2007?) and made all my money back plus the 2 or 3 dollars I overcharged for shipping.

lulz

1 up, 1 down

BikerSaint
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 12:07:40 AM

LV,
If those guys are still around soaking up the brewski's & slurping down at the burger barns, tell em I'll trade em a Whopper, Big Mac, AND a Quarter Pounder too, for their mint copy of ICO.

Oh hell, I'll even throw in a FREE $1 fries with that...

Last edited by BikerSaint on 8/27/2010 12:08:33 AM

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:05:52 AM

Really? I love Rogue Galaxy. It does have some lengthy grinding but it was still sweet imo.

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LimitedVertigo
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:23:49 AM

I tried to get into it (put in 10hrs the first day I bought it) but I hated the characters. I think after DragonQuest8 I was expecting more. I love(d) that game.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, August 26, 2010 @ 11:58:23 PM
Reply

When I was young, I sold off my Atari 2600, Intellivision & Colecovision console to somebody, and I've been forever pissing & moaning about my younger stupidity every since then.

So now I don't sell off anything, even the crappiest games. Yeah, I still need that 1.6 Ben-rated, Barbie's Riding Academy for my collection(but I swear, I'll never play it).

Anyway, I guess that's what really pushed me into collecting gaming stuff.

And I will be re-buying those 3 MIA consoles I had sold.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:06:47 AM

I'm upset that I sold my Jaguar. Bad bad move.

0 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:41:25 AM

You bought a Jaguar?--"Do the math."

For what games?

I remember renting one with my bro and with a couple games. We weren't impressed.
We'd buy most every game system, but that one and the 3DO didn't make the cut.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:53:39 PM

It didn't have an onslaught of awesome games, but Alien VS Predator was ahead of it's time at the time, Iron Soldier 1 & 2 were great straight forward mech games. (I think Playstation got an Iron Soldier but it sucked) and there was that one interactive puzzle solver I forget the name... ummm.... MYST! It also had the best versions of Doom and Wolfenstein 3D.

0 up, 0 down

A2K78
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:23:48 AM
Reply

Craigslist and Ebay is enough for me when it come to buying used games.

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:21:48 AM
Reply

Retro-good times!!!!

I've still have my Jaguar, plus the 64 bit CD adapter unit that attaches to the top of it, w/ 25 cartridge game & 9 disc games

Also, I still have my Panasonic branded FZ10 3DO (the streamlined sexy model out of all the different & much uglier fat-bast*rd 3DO's) along w/ 45 games for it.

0 up, 0 down

pyrobomber70
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:31:27 AM
Reply

Anyone want to buy a copy of God of War 3: Ultimate Edition for $50? I cannot make a funnier joke sorry!

0 up, 1 down

___________
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 3:32:10 AM
Reply

sweet!
i cant understand why developers are complaining about used game sales, i mean if there were not used games sales most people would of not bought the game in the first place!
allot of people i know buy every game they know they will like new to make sure it lasts, but if there not sure on something they will buy it used than if they like it they will return it and get a new copy.
so if anything devs should be thanking this because its getting them more sales!

0 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:27:47 AM

I don't know a single person in the world that would buy a game used, and if they like it, would buy it new... if people do that, then they are the minority, and devs can hardly bank on that.

1 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:29:36 AM

I can imagine used game sales actually do help new sales quite a bit.

If someone bought Uncharted used because they didnt want to spend $60 on a game they werent 100% sure about they may end up loving the crap out of it and buying Uncharted 2 on Day 1. Had they not been able to pick up Uncharted for less they probably wouldnt have bought it at all so they wouldnt care about Uncharted 2 either.

2 up, 1 down

___________
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:25:48 AM

exactly!
allot of people dont like buying new IPs because they dont know what to expect, so used sales is a perfect way to entice them to play the game in hopes they like it and set up future purchases.

2 up, 1 down

Highlander
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:37:07 AM

2 up, 5 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 10:55:47 AM

lol, ya that's a huge stretch guys.

2 up, 1 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:06:39 PM

I know its a stretch, but it could happen. I'm not claiming its common, but it certainly is plausible.

0 up, 0 down

LegendaryWolfeh
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:34:36 PM

So you're saying that it's better to not buy a new IP new, totally pretty much ensuring that it won't reach peak sales, and then giving it a higher chance to not reach expectations, which then would tell the developer/publisher it wasn't good enough and never make a sequel....riiight

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NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:02:16 PM

I'm not saying anything is better, but used games arent 100% negative for the industry like Highlander likes to trumpet.
I bought R:FoM used because i wasnt sure if i wanted to drop $60 on a game i wasnt sure i'd enjoy. I loved it so i bought R2 on day 1. Had i not bought R:FoM then i wouldnt have bought R2 and instead of getting $60 from me, Insomniac would have seen $0.

I wasnt too sure if i'd like Modest Mouse so when i saw one of their CDs at a yard sale for $3 i bought it because it was cheap enough. I loved it and bought all of their other CDs. Had i not bought The Fruit That Ate Itself i wouldnt have bought anything else and they would have none of my money.

No, i'm sure used sales are only negatives to the industry, right?

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 3:09:26 PM

Hardly anything in life is evil incarnate. There may be positives to something. In fact, to everything, there is usually something positive. However, when you weigh the negatives against the positives, I think most people typically judge something's positivity based on the end result.

What I do when I'm unsure of a game, is either rent it or wait long enough for price to come way down or read reviews. Bad games drop in price pretty quickly. And rental agreements guarantee that a percentage of my rental will go to the publisher (regardless of how small).

I can understand if you want to try something out for a long period of time that buying second hand makes more monetary sense, though. If I wasn't such a firm believer in supporting originality or if I didn't prefer to reward the creator instead of the consignor, I would likely consider the same thing.

Truly this whole debate simply boils down to asking which values are more important to who.

0 up, 0 down

Lotusflow3r
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 4:57:24 AM
Reply

Tesco (UK) have just started dabbling in the pre-owned business too.

0 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 6:31:40 AM
Reply

going to my frist ever best buy trip this morning should i beaware of any thing ? and also should i get there new gamer magazine?

0 up, 0 down

alcrowley
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 8:05:02 AM
Reply

Don´t usually post my comments anywhere, but I´ve been following PSXE for some time now, and realized that you can actually have a good exchange of ideas here, without so much trolling... Anyway, one thing that you will read a lot from me is this: I envy you guys! Living in a 3th world country, I have to buy my games through Ebay, usually from a seller from Hong Kong, almost a world apart from where I live, and wait about 3, 4 weeks before the game arrives, AND pay some extra buck for the shipping. But I forget it all when, like this week, I receive my copy of Uncharted 2 and start enjoying that wonderful game.

1 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 9:00:29 AM

You'll find that we all dont agree on much of anything, but the community here stays pretty civil throughout anything. It really is quite nice. Its good to have another user posting, welcome!

What some of the anti-used games people forget is that some people (like yourself) just dont have the means to buy new games. Its not because of a sense of entitlement, its just good economic sense to buy something cheaper if you can afford it. You wouldnt say "Oh, i dont have $18k to spend on a new car, i guess i'll just ride my bike." No, you go look for a used car for about $5k. Its not that anyone feels entitled to buy something cheaper, but you live within your means. Some people really just dont have $60 to drop on a new game.

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 8/27/2010 9:01:09 AM

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 11:02:12 AM

Bandit, it's not that Highlander, Ben, myself, and others don't understand that. It makes very much sense from a consumer perspective, and we both get that. In fact, both of us would understand where you're coming from. The only thing that bugs us is when people back up their opinions with lies about the situation with piss poor excuses like "cars and software are the same thing" or "used sales helps the publishers". It's impossible to swallow such statements.

I can accept a point of view that it's more cost effective to buy something used. At that point, we merely disagree on the moral standpoints, which I talked about yesterday.

Look, I guess what I'm saying is this:

I can get past the fact that we have differing moral standpoints. Agree to disagree is fine. What ticks me off are those piss poor excuses I referred to that are simply not true at ALL. Why people can't simply say what you just said in that last statement is beyond me. They have to go further and say that these devs are greedy or that they have no right to charge extra access for used games.

The fact is... they do have those rights... and even greedy publishers like Activision aren't as money grubbing as the used sales market is.

You get what I'm saying?

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/27/2010 11:02:44 AM

0 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 11:04:24 AM

P.s. I don't forget facts like people don't have huge amounts of money. I was a student once, too, ya know. I don't think either me or Highlander have overlooked anything.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/27/2010 11:04:43 AM

0 up, 1 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:02:28 PM

Actually, the Right of First Sale states that devs do not have the right to restrict 2nd hand sales.

I feel like i've quoted this too many times... ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
"the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made."
Meaning that as long as i dont make a copy of GoW3, Santa Monica and Sony have no business interfering with what i do with my disc.
Much like with music. If i go buy ZZ Top's Eliminator and listen to it for a few years then sell it at a yard sale for $5 ZZ Top doesnt have the right to send the 2nd owner a bill or revoke their right to listen to the last 3 tracks.

Gaming isnt some sacred market that doesnt have to play by the same rules as the rest of the world. As long as the copyright isnt being violated, the owner has no right to do anything once the first sale is made.

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 8/27/2010 1:05:39 PM

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Simcoe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 1:48:20 PM

@NoSmokingBandit
None of the publishers from the other day's article are preventing the gamer from using the contents (software) written on the (second hand) game disc as is, the publishers/developers have no control over that. They are looking to charge for accessing online content (on their network) to those users that are not first sale. If they do implement this system I'm sure it will be on titles going forward and not be retroactive and probably be stated on the packaging.

Last edited by Simcoe on 8/27/2010 1:49:03 PM

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NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:03:00 PM

Then why not charge the first user $60 + $15 online fee? They are using the game online too. But but but! Its included in the original $60 price you exclaim! Good, then give me a $45 version without online capabilities.

Adobe would be making a ton more money if they gimped Photoshop after someone transferred the license, but Adobe (for once) isnt being dicks, they understand how used products are traded and let it happen.

But games are different than pc software im sure....

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 8/27/2010 2:05:42 PM

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 2:55:18 PM

Highlander addressed your Right of First Sale stuff yesterday, Bandit. Similarly, it still does not address the use of software. Only the physical disk.

Now... lets stop arguing the law side of things. It's pretty straightforward if you understand law lingo. I can accept your point of view if you stick to the moral differences you referred to in the post I replied to the first time. I can agree to disagree on that. But I'm afraid I can't budge on the way the law works. It's like trying to deny 2+2=4.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 4:13:17 PM

I said that I would say nothing more on this topic. And indeed I shall not express any opinion on this story. However here is some information that may be of interest to those who wish to continue the discussion

First sale doctrine only covers the physical, tangible 'copy' of a work. It is designed to prevent copyright holders controlling the physical distribution of a 'copy' of the work once it has been sold. It expressly does not, and is not intended to alter copyright holders control over reproduction rights.

Digital downloads and other intangible 'copies' of works are explicitly excluded from the provisions of the doctrine of "first sale". The US copyright office has examined that issue specifically and concluded, twice (once since the inception of the DMCA), that the doctrine of "first sale" only applies to physical, tangible embodiments of a work, such as a book, a disk or other physical expression.

I have also found studies that conclude that used game sales displace between 17-25% of potential 'new' purchases. Although the research for these studies was prior to 2009. The continued growth of the used game market since then indicates that the % of displaced (lost) sales may now be higher.

Draw your own conclusions

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 4:40:42 PM

One further nugget of information.

According to GameStop's most recent financial report, new game sales account for 36.9% of it's sales revenue, and used game sales account for 31.4% of it's sales revenue. Used games are also their most profitable revenue stream.

31.4% of total $$ revenue was used game sales.

3 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 5:18:11 PM

@NoSmokingBandit
I suppose they could call it a *bonus* for their first sale customers, much like the bonus content they give to people that pre-order games prior to their release. Also there are still lots of single player games that have no online component that are still $60 (Mafia II, GoW III, Final Fantasy XIII). Also, Sony et al. are not looking to charge you for buying a previously owned game if all you want to use it for is off-line play. So you could still go and try and find a previously used disc of that $60 new game for $45.

As for why Adobe (or any other productivity software for that matter) don't do the same sort of thing, I suppose they could but I don't see Staples of Office Depot or any other retailers around town selling previously owned copies of photoshop. Also, they don't have users accessing their servers for hours on end on a weekly (or sometimes daily) basis.

Finally, this isn't a democratic proposition we're all voting on in some election. This is a business decision that Sony and others are making. The market will ultimately inform the publishers if they've made a correct decision.

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Underdog15
Sunday, August 29, 2010 @ 2:37:05 AM

@Simcoe

You're not very likely to find used PC software. Because PC's are completely install based, you really only need most disks once or twice ever. Games don't do that.

PC's (or Macs, whatever) are already doing what these game devs are proposing. You can resale the disk of Windows 7 or Photoshop, etc. but unless you have an activation code for it, all you get is what's on the disk, and nothing more. In some cases, info on the disk is locked. Some software requires online registration to ensure the license key is used only the number of times allowed by the publisher.

This idea has been around forever with computers... and no one complains about that. Suddenly they do it with games, and we're shocked. They're pretty similar examples, if you ask me.

@NoSmokingBandit
Can you please use some applicable examples? Adobe is not applicable for all the reasons Simcoe mentioned. Additionally, most PC software DOES do the same thing.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 8/29/2010 2:41:48 AM

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hadouken
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 11:08:16 AM
Reply

Sounds like a good for target and best buy. I wonder how long until Walmart gets involved.

Ben, the nearest target to me is 40 minutes a away but we do have a crappy gamestop full of biased xboxism.

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Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 11:14:23 AM

I have a friend who would take lightly used games he didn't like to WalMart for a full refund. I don't know about now, but at the time, you didn't need a receipt. He would just tell them it didn't work properly and would freeze or something. He'd get 100% full price credit and pick up a new game whether he bought the returned game from them or not.

He's a liar of a bugger, but he certainly profited... you could always try that approach with WalMart. lol

1 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 3:16:44 PM
Reply

I guess the main reason I get ticked off, is because Gamestop makes a net profit well over 2 billion dollars every year... Which means that's 2 billion dollars that don't go back into game development.

And that's just gamestop... never mind other second hand sales...

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Highlander
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 11:06:05 PM

According to GameStop's most recent financial report, new game sales account for 36.9% of it's sales revenue, and used game sales account for 31.4% of it's sales revenue. Used games are also their most profitable revenue stream.

31.4% of total $$ revenue was used game sales.

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booze925
Friday, August 27, 2010 @ 5:41:20 PM
Reply

this is great! now gamestop isn't a used game monopoly. its got competition

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BikerSaint
Saturday, August 28, 2010 @ 12:42:40 AM
Reply

I'm certainly no Saint so I'm going to play the game of Devil's advocate here.....

Games Market Now Worth Over $100 Billion - Report

Avista Partners' Paul Heydon says that the total market cap for game companies is actually worth around $105 billion.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/games-market-now-worth-over-100-billion---report/
*************************

Best Buy's Used Games Business a 'Positive' for Industry?

Sterne Agee analyst Arvind Bhatia believes that if Best Buy's used business is a success, it could force publishers and retailers to work out a win-win solution finally.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/best-buys-used-games-business-a-positive-for-industry/
*******************************

Used Games Aren't Evil, High Prices Are

http://www.joystickdivision.com/2010/08/used_games_arent_evil_high_pri.php
******************************************
Used games market fuels new game sales

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2010/08/most-dangerous-game.html
*******************************************

GameStop the ScapeGoat: Why Used Games Debate Isn’t So Simple

Debates over used games aren’t entirely about used games, just an uncertain industry looking for an easy villain.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/08/used-games
****************************************

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Highlander
Saturday, August 28, 2010 @ 1:26:54 AM

That piece from wired is a tad mis-informed. I don't think that the writer realized the scale of their used game business when it was written. If you read the comments on that piece there is a comment from someone who used to work in the publishing industry. He let's you in on several elements of how GameStop favors used games over new, and the impact it has.

This move that will ultimately drive the price and desirability of used games down. Publishers will charge those buying used games a fee to access the extra content and any patches not on the disc. This will drive down the perceived value of the used games. There will be less incentive to go with the used game since it clearly has diminished value now that it is 'used' (just like every other 'used' product ever sold). The additional competition from retailers like Target will push the price of used games down. Publishers will claw back some of the lost revenue from the used buyers by charging used game buyers for online access. It will make used games less lucrative for GameStop and the others. All of this preserves the inherent value of buying a 'new' product instead of a used one.

So in the end the retailers selling used games, who's currently insane profit margin will be slashed. All thanks to the market pressure of gamers who know that they will still have to pay the piper for the online elements. The publishers will be happier, gamers will be happier but retailers will be less well off...

The reason I think this is a bad move for the industry is that it accelerates the drive towards an all, or predominantly digital download business model. It ultimately harms the retailers themselves because their profit margins will become thinner and thinner. Combined with a greater drive towards digital delivery, this reduces the amount of business that retailers will see from video games.

The other aspect is the reaction of publishers and developers. They are not happy about GameStop, and will be less than delighted about this. Does anyone really think it's good for the industry to have such discord between retailers and publishers?

Last edited by Highlander on 8/28/2010 1:36:38 AM

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amzngskillz
Saturday, August 28, 2010 @ 10:55:19 AM
Reply

Hmmm... If the expanded used game sales points (Target BB etc.) drive down used game prices their would be a smaller piece of the pie for publishers/retailers to fight over.

Next, if devs/pubs institute an online access charge then that will further drive down used sales prices and volume in general. This will make the pie even smaller. This will be great for gamers on a single player campaign game like GOW3. Soon the fight between retailers/publishers will be over a fraction of the amount it is now. This could in turn plateau the move toward all digital downloads.
It could also keep the current price point of $60 frozen there for quite some time.

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th3_bLy
Sunday, August 29, 2010 @ 2:18:55 AM
Reply

Working at a GS, I can't help but feel like an a-hole when I tell the customers the trade-in value for games. I effing hate my head office so much, for a bunch of work related crap, and how they rip customers off on some things. Also, I can't speak about Target since I live in Canada, but from what I know, Best Buy Canada's trade-in value is fairly close to what GS offers.

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Robochic
Monday, August 30, 2010 @ 12:29:18 AM
Reply

Best buy and Futureshop I have heard are around the same range as GS but Blockbuster Canada has been reasonable my friend traded a few games in got 80 bucks for 4 games I was pretty impressed and alot of them were well over 1 years old now that was a bit ago so it may have changed.

Me I prefer selling on my own or waiting till it comes down in price not a fan of used games if it means I have to wait a bit longer I will.

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