Final Fantasy XIII Outsells Predecessor

WolfCrimson
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 10:52:53 AM
Reply

Not only that, it's also the first FF into this console generation. XII was good, and people were hyped when they heard XIII was gonna be turn-based. That was before people knew it had really linear maps.

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:23:23 AM

Linear maps was the least of the worries. X was linear too. It was the fact the first 20 hours of the was a tutorial and just when you thought the hand holding would let up it never did.

This is not an RPG. It's a battle simulator with flashy graphics.

8 up, 3 down

WolfCrimson
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:40:20 AM

Ok, FFX was linear, but not FFXIII level linear. I'm talking about kill tubes with no towns or cities to explore. Except for Gran Pulse.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:41:59 AM

Yea thats true. X proved you can have a linear game and still allow for exploration.

4 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:36:06 PM

Yeah, XIII was basically a walk through the sewer with no turns and lots of battles. X was linear, XIII was claustrophobic.

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:38:35 PM

I was so happy once i reached Gran Pulse. Then i found the edges of the map and was greatly underwhelmed. Especially since it was the only open area in the game.

1 up, 0 down

Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 10:54:34 AM
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Now SE, specifically Wada, will look at this and argue that making XIII multiplat was a good decision

5 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 10:55:24 AM

Just like Capcom with RE5 selling the most in the franchise.

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:04:29 AM

I really wish they would fire that tool. Either that, or the talent at Square should walk out and start their own studio like Mikami did.

4 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 10:54:53 AM
Reply

What WolfCrimson said.

It's the first main FF this gen, 4 years after the last FF and the hype FFXIII got.

I wouldn't be surprised to see FFXV's number to be a lot worse than FFXIII if SE doesn't change their attitude until then.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:09:45 AM

Square obviously wasn't making this Final Fantasy for it's long time fans. This game was aimed a twitch gamers. They dumbed
It down and took the RPG out for people new to the series. They simultaneously added newbs and twitchers to their fanbase while alienating people like me who considered Final Fantasy best RPG series of all time.

Success indeed.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/6/2010 11:10:13 AM

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:00:50 AM
Reply

It's only a success in terms of sales and thats a given since Square went multigreed and sold largely on name recognition. Its also succeeded in alienating a great number of people who were fans of the old games. I wouldn't call this a success if I were Sqaure considering this game got mediocre scores compared to previous iterations and they receieved a ton of black lash from their long time fans here and in Japan. I remember when it launched in Japan, people hated it and only held 2.5 out of 5 stars on Amazon Japan for a while.

Success in Wada's green eyes, yes. A success as far as Final Fantasy goes, Errr...No. Utter failure. Sorry, pretty cut scenes and epic story is only half of what made Final Fantasy great. The other half was seriously lacking. And this 360 launch in Japan, Square is just pouring salt on the wound.

What a disgrace they have become. No honor or ability to keep their word.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/6/2010 11:03:29 AM

8 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:39:30 PM

A pox on whoever gave you that 1 thumbs down. You be dead on as per usual.

1 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:42:20 PM

Can't please everyone. :)

0 up, 0 down

daus26
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:45:59 PM

Just curious on what you mean by the "other" half. You said epic story and pretty cut-scenes make up the half, so what's the other?

I agree with you that it's only half actually. My other half would be the gameplay, sidequests, and exploration. By gameplay, it doesn't necessarily have to be turn-based for me, but it has to require some strategy. The other part of gameplay is being able to control the other teammates because it's ridiculous how it's game over when party leader dies.

So what's your other half? I'm just trying to understand why so many are not disappointed, but literally pissed, or angered about how FFXIII. Not my favorite FF, but it was playable for me, unlike some of you.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:06:19 PM

My other half. It was missing good battle system, growth of your characters, micromanaging their growth(Crystarium or what ever it was called is weak sauce compared to Materia, Junction and what ever they called it in FFIX), ample side quests, ample opportunity to explore, weak enemy variety, etc.

Bottom line:
Epic Story: Check.
Great graphics: Check.
Gameplay: Epic Fail.
Side Quest: Fail.
Exploration: Fail.
Epic Summons and Magic: Fail.

3 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:50:01 PM

Towns: Fail
NPCs: Fail

5 up, 2 down

pillz81
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 2:27:00 PM

Last I heard, the Japanese used game stores were getting a lot of resells and could hardly sell the used copies for even half the original price. That was just weeks after its release on PS3.
I have my doubts as to whether the 360 version would sell based on this.

0 up, 0 down

Gone
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:05:41 AM
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Plus it also helps that the game has been $19.99 about five times in the past three months.

6 up, 1 down

Scarecrow
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:09:29 AM
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Name recognition nothing else.

Glad I didn't buy this game.

4 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:12:56 AM

Exactly. Just like Resident Evil 5. If Versus XIII goes multiplat before launch and the game is delayed because of the Xbox version and changes in the games design are made to accommodate for it's short comings like they did with this one, I'll never buy a game from Square ever again. Not new anyway.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/6/2010 11:19:21 AM

5 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:18:55 PM

I have never bought a used game that could not be bought new otherwise... but even I would consider a used purchase of FFvXIII if they did that...

0 up, 0 down

GuardianMode
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:26:24 AM
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Also does it seem like SE is trying "really" hard to convince us it was a success. Thats the vibe I feel while reading that.

4 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 11:33:14 AM

They can tout the sales numbers all they want. Mediocrity sells and Lord knows there's a ton of it on the other side of the fence. That fanbase is littered with people who soak up mediocre entertainment. I think most Playstation fans who bought this game were sorely disappointed in general. Not say there weren't some long time fans who did like it. It just was a failure as a FF game in general. Britney Spears could be considered a success based on her records sales but we all know her music sucks.

5 up, 1 down

Alienange
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:04:01 PM
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Hot chicks do tend to outsell little queers.

2 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:26:13 PM
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I have to say something-

Too many people seem to ignore 80% of the games that are released. They call FFXIII "crap" or "junk" when in reality, it's vastly superior to 90% of the games on store shelves. It might be on the low end of YOUR spectrum, but it doesn't fall into the category of the truly mediocre games. If you want to see them, just look at the scores of titles that scored below a 6 or 7. You probably forgot about them instantly.

I don't. I see them all the time. I see them far more often than the truly great games. So it bugs me when people harp on FFXIII (or Call of Duty, for that matter) as if they're worthy of nothing more than a 3. As if they're the worst games out there...in truth, they're in the 90th or 95th percentile and that's that.

Let's not be too narrow-minded. Let's remember that most any game we talk about is leaps and bounds ahead of the masses of mediocrity that do exist...we just choose to ignore them.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/6/2010 12:26:50 PM

10 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:43:59 PM

Amen.

2 up, 1 down

Hezzron
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:45:54 PM

Well said. Sometimes the unwarranted negativity gets to me too.

Maybe some people need a new hobby....like knitting.

3 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:58:57 PM

One mans 8.5 is another mans 10. I agree the game has AAA production quality(pretty graphics)but thats doesn't make a great game. I understand its a cut above most games on the market but its not a cut above the greatness we have come to expect from Final Fantasy and thats why i so bitter about it. I would be just as bitter if Nintendo slaughtered The Legend of Zelda like Square did this game.

6 up, 4 down

swapnilgyani
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:45:39 PM

I'm new to the Final Fantasy world - XIII is the first installment I've played in the series, and is also my first ever RPG, so I had no idea what to expect from it.

I enjoyed the game for the most part. I absoloutely loved the first few levels of the game, but I lost interest in the middle part, where it felt I was doing more of the same-old, same-old, and a constant feeling of disconnection due to lack of control in battles (I hadn't finished the 20-hour tutorial yet!).

After a few months, I came back to it and finished the job, thoroughly enjoying the added control over party, Gran Pulse and the final levels.

My biggest gripe with the game is its battle system. I would love to have had at least some degree of control over what the other party members do, and couldn't understand why I was to fight with only 3 guys all the time instead of all 6. Since battles were almost 95% of the game, they should have had a more robust battle system.

I wouldn't call it a mediocre game at all, but at the same time, it won't feature in my top 10 games of this generation either.

2 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:56:21 PM

Ben you are correct, however as core gamers we can't walk through the world with blinders on and encounter every game as if we never played a game before in our lives. People are bound to have their standards. Would FFXIII score higher if it hadn't had that name? Yes. Is that fair? I think so.

Even if fan loyalty means nothing, there is a precedent set in any case. And now that we know for sure it was diced up for the 360 the old fans are even more upset. I think all upset fans have plenty of reason to be upset.

Crap? No. Crap compared to REASONABLE expectations? Yes.

7 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:04:20 PM

The problem with saying it's "crap compared to reasonable expectations" is that those "reasonable expectations" are as lofty as possible. In fact, they couldn't be loftier. Hence, "crap" could almost still be AAA, comparatively speaking...hence, we really shouldn't use the word "crap."

But I do agree about the other part, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned it my review- had it been named anything else, FFXIII is an easy 9+ game. When taken in comparison to the rest of the series - which, as you say, we're all obliged to do, even critics - it's not worthy of such a high score.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/6/2010 3:06:21 PM

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:32:10 PM

Whatever. I can send you ACTUAL crap, if you like. Maybe you won't be so confused.

3 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:53:52 PM

It's lonely at the top Ben, reasonable expectations are gonna be lofty on a property that has given RPG fans multiple gamegasms for decades.

The fact is if a Final Fantasy fan asked me if he should buy the game I'd tell him or her sure, but don't spend more than twenty bucks on it.

I honestly don't know who it is supposed to appeal to.

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:59:47 PM

The new fans S-E keeps wanting.

...not that it works.

0 up, 3 down

Scarecrow
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:14:30 PM

Well I never called it crap but definitely one of, if not the worst main-line FF yet.

I never called it crap.

As for me I'd never buy it just base don the fact that there are too many other great games to buy. And those who actually missed great games, like me, in the past and plan to get them would do better getting those than on this.

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:29:39 PM

Most of us admit that it's a good game, Ben. Even the people who wrote user reviews thought so.

However...

For those core gamers who have invested literally years if not decades into the franchise, they're simply going to move on if SE takes this direction. Sure, they might all be "good" games, but those of us who loved FFVI, VII, Tactics, et. al, we're going to find another "new love" that actually delivers the style of play we're looking for.

Here's the issue: We're pissed. And we have a right to be. That game style that, for guys like me, provide my number 1 favorite style of gameplay, can no longer be found in the same place it used to always be found. So fans are going to be pissed... and to us, it will forever be seen as lower quality or "crap" because it simply no longer delivers all it once did.

Graphics turn me on as much as the next guy, but if my gameplay isn't there, I'm gonna find me another mistress that can deliver!

Looks only go so far in a sexy relationship... at the end of the day, you still gotta perform... with longevity... and exploration... and engaging fore er... gameplay. heh.... know what I mean?

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:45:24 PM
Reply

I enjoyed FFXIII far more than most games this generation. Like Ben says, it wasn't a very good FF game but it was a great game.

2 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:00:19 PM

I can honestly say FFXIII is the least enjoyable game in my PS3 library at the moment. I wish it wasn't. This was my most anticipated game pretty much ever and just didn't deliver in my opinion. =/

Even after the 20 hour tutorial i tried sticking with it. Forcing my self to like it i guess but the more i played it the less i cared about the characters and the game play. I liked the production value, the graphics, sound were great but after 60 hours it started to feel less like a game and more like a simulator. There just wasn't a good balance of great production and gameplay.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/6/2010 1:06:45 PM

2 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:27:20 PM

I'm sorry it was like that for you. I loved the characters and the story kept me wanting to see more and understand the plot better. Out of all the FF it has the weakest gameplay but IMO one of the best worlds and stories.

3 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:44:38 PM

Ha its not your fault. its Squares. I did like Vanille quite a bit. She ended up being one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters of all time but she alone wasn't enough to save the game for me.

1 up, 1 down

swapnilgyani
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:48:39 PM

I wish I could get 'branded' by Fang :P

0 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:16:27 PM

I have to say that agree a little bit with both of you...

@LV - I loved this game too. I don't love it as a FF game...but I liked it enough to someday go back and finish off my marks/hunts/or whatever they're called in this one.

@Jawknee - I don't feel that the "tutorial" is as horrible as you make it out to be. Yes, it could have been about 3 hours as opposed to about 12, but it WAS needed to some degree.

And this game is still in the top 75% of my PS3 games.

My major problem with the game was definitely the battle system. The fact that a FF game created a battle system that felt like an arcade game, where they started using a TIMER in battle to give me a SCORE!! That should almost be grounds to strip the game of the FF name. My other beef was that if you didn't have the right paradigm's in your arsenal then you were just DEAD. You could beat a group of enemies in 23 seconds if you had the correct PS's, but if not then you were dead in the water.....luckily you could restart standing right in front of that group of enemies... what FF has done that before?

But always remember, I nit-pick because I've been playing these games since FFI (even though I only played 2 foreign releases) - so I have ALOT to compare it to.

And this game is still better that 95% of the games out there.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:42:58 PM

Sven, the previous Final Fantasy games were way more complex than this one and it only require a 5 minute tutorial and some explaining in the owners manual. Holding our hand for the first 12 to 20 hours of the game was completely necessary in my opinion especially given the lack of complexity in upgrading your characters and how the battle system worked.

I think the lack of control of the other characters and the fact that its game over when the party leader dies regardless of the other team members status was the final nail in the coffin for me. Dying without being able to revive the leader drove me completely nuts.

2 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:55:45 PM

Even the tutorials in the old ones were largely simplistic, the FUN of it was figuring out how to use it and suddenly making vast improvements. Which we call strategy. The paradigm system tutorial seems aimed at 5 year olds.

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 5:34:57 PM

Ben,
You can sent me those crap games anytime ole time.

Seeing as how all the good games in my collection are ganging up on my handful of crap gamescrap games, my stinker's could certainly use some more crapmates.

And yes, I will even take Barbies Riding Academy off your hands for you(although I'll have to position a few dozen Lego bodyguards around her case's perimeter.

LOL.....No, seriously.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/6/2010 5:37:59 PM

2 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 6:54:16 PM

Jawknee - I'll be honest...the lead character death = game over was a big WTF moment for me.

Again, a big problem people have with this game is that there were too many departures from the series....and it just didnt feel like FF.

2 up, 0 down

Mamills
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:58:56 PM
Reply

yea 12 was better, at least i finished it, 13 turned me off of FF entirely n now im hearing 14 isnt so great either

0 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:01:03 PM

I spent 180 hours on FFXII. I barely made it to 60 in XIII. I got to the end and couldn't stand the battle system any longer so i gave up.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/6/2010 1:01:15 PM

1 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:18:06 PM

Are you telling me you really didn't finish the game??

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:38:17 PM

Nope. I got to the end and gave up. The fighting is too restricting and tedious. I couldn't be bothered to waste anymore time on that game. Plus my characters were kind of weak. I can only spend so much time grinding when the monsters are pretty much the same in every area just different colors. The enemy variety was on par with a hand held RPG. Hell, even DragonQuest IX has greater enemy variety.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:05:23 PM

Just out of curiosity, what did you DO in those 180 hours?

I did absolutely everything in that game, including beating Yiazmat, and my total was just under 120...

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:09:56 PM

Mostly grinding and trying to complete the side quests. I tried to complete everyone's board to the max. in an attempt to max out all their stats and make them compatible with every class. I never did make it to 100% like i did every other Final Fantasy game.

1 up, 0 down

hellish_devil
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 4:28:34 PM

Completing the board for every character on FFXII wasn't that hard. Now completing every Grind Sphere on FFX, now that's hardcore.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 5:07:59 PM

Agreed. Wasn't hard. Just time consuming. I must have been grinding in all the wrong places.

0 up, 0 down

Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 7:34:34 PM

@ hellish_devil

It's definitely possible to complete the entire sphere grid for every character in X.

You may ask how I know this, well my friend I myself have achieved that very feat. I also went through it and added more stats, plus replaced the lower stat spheres with the highest possible (HP +300, Magic +4, Agility +4, etc.).

It takes a lot of time at the monster arena and omega ruins to work up the S.lvls and inventory of stat spheres.

Last edited by Qwarktast1c on 10/6/2010 7:36:17 PM

1 up, 0 down

daus26
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 12:52:28 AM

Jawknee, you must've grind at the wrong places. I was able to complete every license board about halfway into the game. The part where the double exp was available, it took no longer than an hour to finish everything. Easiest development system I think.

0 up, 0 down

Mamills
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 12:58:57 PM
Reply

yea 12 was better, at least i finished it, 13 turned me off of FF entirely n now im hearing 14 isnt so great either

0 up, 1 down

Geobaldi
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:28:28 PM

What few available reviews that are available, have said otherwise for the most part. I enjoyed the beta but haven't picked up a copy as of yet. I'm trying to stick with one or two MMO's at a time, but I'll be moving on to this one at some point in the future just as I did with FF XI.

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 1:11:02 PM

As it is with EVERY MMO out there, you really need to wait a bit if you aren't an MMO hardcore fan. Servers are usually sluggish at the start, there's usually a few bugs to iron out, and no one has really figured much out to post FAQ's to help out the rookies.

I'm playing FFXIV, and I love it. I played a lot of FFXI, so the transition is MUCH easier for me than it will be for some people.

What I like is that I rarely ever play more than 1 or 2 hours straight, and the fact that FFXIV allows for much easier solo play (as well as party play for those that like it!) means I don't have to waste precious time looking for a party.

0 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:18:09 PM
Reply

Well, a success is a success and there is no denying that. In reality, sales are all that matter in big business and Squate-Enix has recieved that. Sure, there are factors to consider, but it's still the same. As Ben is always touting, quality sells in games, and FFXIII is deserving of these sales numbers. I don't much care for all the hate around here.
Peace.

0 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:43:15 PM

There is no doubting FFXIII is a quality game, however it sold purely on the brand name. Fans were hoodwinked.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/6/2010 1:43:33 PM

3 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:21:27 PM
Reply

Personally, I think the trouble with this is that in some senses this discussion is about the future of JRPGs. FFXIII rightly or wrongly is seen by the majority of people as a JRPG, it's classed as an RPG by SE. So with it being more successful than FFXII, SE has ample reason to continue making games of that type instead of looking again at the more traditional JRPG. Certainly turn based combat is out, but based on this evidence SE could easily conclude that people no longer want the old style RPGs at all, but in fact want the more action style games.

And you know, based on the sales data, they'd be right. Of course that doesn't alter the fact that a decent number of fans would like something else. However, SE is a business and will weigh the merits of a project that serves a smaller potential market (traditional JRPG) against a project that serves a potentially larger, mainstream market (Action RPG).

I don't have to like it, I don't have to support it, but I do have to accept that a publisher like SE will make a business decision, rather than serving their past customers.

3 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:36:20 PM

I agree. It's just shame fan reception isn't a bigger indicator of its success. They received so much flack for this title but in the end Wada will look at the sales numbers and assume this is what people old or new will want in the future. With him at the helm i fear the franchise as we new it is dead.

Curious, how is Atelier Ronona compared to this?

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:37:10 PM

Rorona is a completely different animal, so to speak. The aims of the game are so utterly different, that you really cannot compare the two.

I'm enjoying Rorona, and I'd probably enjoy FFXIII - assuming I could get past it being a non-turn based FF game.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:33:00 PM
Reply

Now we are doomed. Versus XIII will go multiplat, and XV will be another battle sim.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/6/2010 1:37:27 PM

4 up, 1 down

eLLeJuss
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:38:02 PM
Reply

No shock there. FFXIII was more appealing than FFXII. I mean cmon. Did Vaan even have a hint of coolness compared to the other leading guys in FF =/.

0 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:39:52 PM

LOL i hated Vaan at first but after playing the game i didn't mind him so much. I hope we see a HD remake of XII. I have been wanting to play that game again.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:46:08 PM

That's why Balthier kept referring to himself as "The Leading Man" :)

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:51:07 PM

Balthier was the best character in the game in my opinion.

1 up, 0 down

Ultimadesires
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:51:42 PM

Balthier is the only reason i played through that pile of crap, He was the only character with a decent backstory and a personality that which didn't resemble a plank.

I thought FFXIII was a thrill to play through it's definatly worthy of at least one solid playthrough.

1 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:54:27 PM

At least XII was a proper RPG and a proper Final Fantasy. And it had a proper battle system.

2 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 1:57:19 PM

When it got tedious, I just put Ashe in the lead and kept the camera low. ;)

2 up, 0 down

Arvis
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:10:48 PM

Dude, XII was rife with cool characters. Everyone BUT Vaan was totally awesome!

And Vaan wasn't bad either, he just... was designed poorly.

-Arvis

2 up, 0 down

daus26
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:48:53 PM

I agree with everyone regarding Vaan. Definitely some designing issues there, no offence. Eventually I got used to him though and actually used him as party leader most times.

As for the girls, not exactly the prettiest bunch either.

0 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:07:16 PM

Vaan just seemed too much like one of the girls at first. But the more i played and learned about his character his design didn't bother me anymore.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:57:42 PM

His design is basically just a more human-like Zidane. He just chucked the shirt and kept the girly vest.

0 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:21:35 PM

@daus26,
Really? To each their own then

You can't resist that young Penelo babe. That super sexy bunny girl Fran. And the pink mini-skirt princess. They were all very appealing to me.

1 up, 0 down

daus26
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 12:43:01 AM

I actually thought Penelo's the worst female designed FF character, but that doesn't mean it's unbearable of course. Mini skirts are nice, but if there's no pretty face to back it up, it's just meh. Fran's not even human, but I know what you mean.

That's just my take of course.

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 12:11:24 PM

The one thing I couldn't get over with Vaan, was the fact that his abs looked like one of those gag shirts you get with an image of a muscly body. It didn't even have the same skin tone as the rest of him... It just looked strange.

Ashe for the win, though. @World, indeed with the camera!

0 up, 0 down

FM23
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:21:21 PM
Reply

Alot seem to be dissappointed with FFXIII and I can see why, but it is still a great game. MGS Rising won't feel like past MGS games to me, but I won't let that get in my way of enjoying it. I have alot of friends who could be considered twitch gamers and they hate FF period...FFXIII doesn't do anything to change their minds. Maybe Square Enix should cater to their fans because twitch gamers don't care for FFXIII anyway. Cater to your fan base man. Gotta agree with Jawknee.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 2:35:04 PM

To be fair though Konami let us know Rising will be a different experience but it will still retain a lot of the elements from the previous games. Square tried to pass this off as a JRPG, the same as other entries. when it clearly is not. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to water down the battle system for the 360 crowed.(not to say they can't micromanage, only assuming this is where Square may have been coming from or were worried about when thinking up that craptastic battle system) Many of them only play shooters. There isn't a whole lot of micromanaging in FPS. They took most of the micromanagement out of FFXIII. Seems to me they did that so not to overwhelm people who are new to the series.

I understand the need to bring in new people to any given series but they shouldn't go as far to alienate their original fanbase. The ones that are responsible for the series lively hood all these years.

See, i knew we would agree on something at some point. ;)

1 up, 1 down

FM23
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 5:24:53 PM

I didn't know we disagreed about something...what was it?

Yeah...that auto battle and auto jump thing made me feel like I wasn't even doing anything except following the set path. FFXIII is an easy 8.8 for me, but I would have liked the gameplay to be deeper, but all in all...I found it engaging enough after chapter 6 to be fun...you know after so many tutorials and lack luster gameplay. But yeah, this isn't a RPG...just the upgrading part and thats not even deep.

1 up, 1 down

SolidFantasy
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 3:19:17 PM
Reply

I personally enjoyed XII more. There was just so much to do. I still go back from time to time and track down another Mark or two. I do enjoy the story concept more in XIII, and the graphics are bright and colorful (something kinda rare in our current gen of games), but this doesn't overshadow the classic FF awesomeness that XII lived up to and XII fell shy of.
I agree with Ben's earlier point. Often when twitch gamers ask me what I think about CoD:MW2 I have the urge to say it's a suck salad, but then I calm down and remember that it's not a bad game at all, but rather overrated as hell.

also: I felt better connected to the characters in XII. The dialog in XIII makes me feel like I'm watching a children's cartoon.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 4:01:41 PM
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We were all hyped about XIII. It was supposed to be a full on next gen experience. Meaning it would have everything from the previous FFs and MORE. Instead it was stripped of (in my opinion) about 80% of what is required to make a great FF.

But back on topic people. This is about sales, and I don't think SE gives two... craps... about what the fans think or the bad reviews. It's just a bad direction for the series. Even a name like FF won't carry games like this for long.

4 up, 2 down

www
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 5:46:45 PM
Reply

FFXIII is one of the games I enjoyed utterly this gen. It might not be the best FF but it's still better than loads of junk out there.

Hell, I can say FFXIII is worth the money than inFamous, Halo, Killzone, Gears Of War, God Of War 3, Bioshock, Street Fighter and almost all those games standing right above it at Metacritic.

FFXIII just got punished cause it wasn't the best of FFs, but if it had another name like Halo Fantasy 15, I bet it woulda been sitting comfortably with a 95 at metacritic for at least it's longevity considering the story alone and side quests. It took me 1+ months to beat it, yet most of those games in the top ten takes days to finish. I'm not saying any crappy game with high lasting appeal should be awarded high marks but FFXIII isn't crappy either.

2 up, 6 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 8:11:19 PM

"Hell, I can say FFXIII is worth the money than inFamous, Halo, Killzone, Gears Of War, God Of War 3, Bioshock, Street Fighter and almost all those games standing right above it at Metacritic."

This made me chuckle because all of games are loads better and more entertaining than FFXIII.

3 up, 1 down

FM23
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:15:26 PM

Dude, I agree with you kind of. It's worth the money compared to Infamous and maybe the longevity of most games mentioned...but I would rather have GOW3 and Bioshock over FFXIII. Never played Gears or Street fighter, so I don't know how I feel about those games, but I would say FFXIII is a better single player experience than KZ2 even though I love the hell out of that game. But it seems like alot of bad reviews give the game low scores because it is not like past FF's which is unfair. FFXIII is a great game.

0 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:19:38 PM

I don't get this quoting of metacritic and such. What's the point of quoting some number of some so called "independent" body. In the end your opinions are your own. Don't borrow from other numbers out of the air. That a collection of reviews culminate to give a game, or film for that matter a so called "score" means nothing.

That XIII might have a better performance rating on metacritic than another game on metacritic, it does NOT immediately follow that it is a higher quality product. To think this is ludicrous and an absolutely silly justification for an argument.

2 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 6:51:00 PM
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Argh. So this just gives SE a licence to not give a rats ass about what they've done.

Die Another Day made lots of money but at least Barbara Broccoli and co know they let it get out of hand. I don't see SE possessing the ability to smarten up and drastically reaffirm the franchise like Casino Royale achieved whatsoever.

I completely reject this crap that XIII would be better received if it was under a different title, no, I think it would infact be received poorly. SE banked on their brand recognition with this and support base aswell as going for new audiences. A shallow experience, that holds your hand, is still just that, no matter how you dress it up.

3 up, 1 down

grayfox2k8
Wednesday, October 06, 2010 @ 9:33:57 PM
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Ben, PS2 had a 103.9 million sold at the end of 2006.

Last edited by grayfox2k8 on 10/6/2010 9:34:21 PM

0 up, 0 down

___________
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 2:04:29 AM
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not surprising, FF is one of those games that would sell like hotcakes no matter how crap it is!
$E could make a game of cows eating grass, pop the FF label on it and it would instantly sell millions!
never underestimate the power of name brand!

1 up, 1 down

DeathOfChaos
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 2:56:16 AM
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FFXIII was not made poorly, it looks great, but the game itself is the problem. It's not that it's a bad game, per say, it's just well, boring. It's kind of like the Chun-Li movie. It got great sales, but the reviews and ratings were very low. That's because it advertised well enough to get people interested, and then people found out it was a letdown after watching it. I feel FFXIII is the same way; a letdown. It sold well, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a great game...

1 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 3:56:11 AM

You and I differ in views. For me a great looking, terribly designed game, which is shallow, has terrible level design, lack of depth, fails to hold interest for long periods of time, a lack of ingenuity, etc etc. Is by definition a terrible game, visuals are only a small part of the great media we take part in of games.

0 up, 0 down

Wissam
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 12:05:17 PM
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VG charts is fail.IMO.

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Jotun
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 1:13:18 PM
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For the people talking about how bad this game was, how numbers mean nothing, how SE failed with FFXIII: You do realize that the entirety of the internet population that's spoken up against this game and it's merits equals a mere fraction of 1% of the actual gaming population who bought the game, right?

I sure hope so...it's only the people who are displeased with a product that generally go onlijne and post a million comments about how bad it is. The rest of us are content to *enjoy* the damn game.

0 up, 1 down

pillz81
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 2:49:48 PM

Just because the majority did not complain about the game doesn't make them right.
Just being content will be the deathknell of civilization. It is good to know that there are people who have standards and are brave enough to voice their opinion.

2 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Thursday, October 07, 2010 @ 3:10:17 PM

@Jotun
I don't think you really have a firm grasp on the situation, and I can firmly assure you that many more than a mere 1% were disappointed by this entry in the series. In fact, I'm willing to bet many of the sales were from hype and expectations. I know I had this game pre-ordered for months before it was released, because I have been a fan of the franchise for the better part of 2 decades!

Now, I think if you read most people's comments here and if I echo my own, you would recognize, that while most people agree it's a decent game by it's own merit, it simply doesn't meet the standards the franchise is used to.

However...

For those core gamers who have invested literally years if not decades into the franchise, they're simply going to move on if SE takes this direction. Sure, they might all be "good" games, but those of us who loved FFVI, VII, Tactics, et. al, we're going to find another "new love" that actually delivers the style of play we're looking for.

Here's the issue: We're pissed. And we have a right to be. That game style that, for guys like me, provide my number 1 favorite style of gameplay, can no longer be found in the same place it used to always be found. So fans are going to be pissed... and to us, it will forever be seen as lower quality or "crap" because it simply no longer delivers all it once did.

Graphics turn me on as much as the next guy, but if my gameplay isn't there, I'm gonna find me another mistress that can deliver!

Looks only go so far in a sexy relationship... at the end of the day, you still gotta perform... with longevity... and exploration... and engaging fore er... gameplay. heh.... know what I mean?

2 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Saturday, October 09, 2010 @ 10:03:21 AM

my opinion matters 100% to me. I still haven't bought it and have no intention of buying it so ofcourse it matters.

I bring up the example of Die Another Day again. Producer's don't necessarily need to be small minded about their product.

0 up, 0 down

Jotun
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 4:42:16 AM
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Well we can agree to disagree, but I'm one of the many who "loves FFVII, Tactics, etc" and I don't feel this game is any of what you said. I've also been a fan for two decades, so this does not make you any more qualified than me to define how good this game is. You say "us" as though you speak on behalf of the entire FF fanbase, and yet you do not for me or anyone else I know who love FF.

Too many people seem to think that every single fan of the FF series has the same feelings on this game, and it's just not true. None of you speak for the rest of us who love this game.

Last edited by Jotun on 10/8/2010 4:45:35 AM

0 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 10:43:48 AM

Here's the problem with Final Fantasy XIII. So all you, "oh the game is so wonderful, all you stuck up fans are just narrow-minded" can stuff it. Yeah it's, good. But look at this trend....

Metacritic scores:

Final Fantasy VI - 91
Final Fantasy VII - 92
Final Fantasy VIII - 89
Final Fantasy IX - 93
Final Fantasy X - 92
Final Fantasy XII - 92
Final Fantasy XIII - 83

See the problem? It's 10% WORSE than it's predecessors! It doesn't keep up with the pace.

Guess which 2 FF's may SHOCK you as better metacritic entries?

Final Fantasy X-2 - 85
Final Fantasy XI - 85

Yeah... even the online game and the sequel to FFX did better... and spin-offs like Crisis Core and Tactics scored better too!!!

So.... I'm not sure I'm wrong.

I've never said it was a bad game... I never said you shouldn't enjoy it...

But you MUST admit, it is quite literally, as viewed by many fans, and every professional critic, as an entry that is obviously not as great as it's predecessors. 10% worse in fact. There is no way around that.

So far in this little debate of ours, I'm the only one who's backed up my thoughts with statistical references. You just had fun with it. (Which is fine! but like I said... you can like it as much as a fat kid loves cake, but it doesn't measure up to the franchise standard)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/8/2010 10:49:34 AM

0 up, 1 down

Jotun
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 12:08:58 PM

*sigh* So you're one of those people who uses Metacritic and review sites as their "proof"? Listen, these sites are payed employees and still don't represent any of the people who like the game. Anyone can use the "data" to scue an argument if you find the right "data". You're logic is flawed on a lot of levels.

You're simply going a bit too far to "prove" that you're "right" and that you represent the majority of gamers out there. You can't provide "proof" to your opinion, it's an *opinion*. You don't understand the underlying point here; that you can't be "right" in this instance.

^
This is the very reason why so many developers don't really care about listening to many of you. Take it from someone who knows a few things about development please.

This FF is also the most commercial of any ever released and was purchased by a lot of people who would never normally play this series. It's going to get panned no matter what from here on in.

Last edited by Jotun on 10/8/2010 12:11:32 PM

0 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 12:19:39 PM

The metacritic is not the "proof", but rather the supporting case in point. And it is by no means what persuaded my opinion. I wrote a big ol' user review on this site, in fact. And I believe I was extremely fair giving it a similar score in the mid-80's.

Once again, stop reading skin deep. Every single person on this site who has been disappointed with this title, has time and time again agreed that it's production values and own merit in and of itself is very good. EVERY single one of us! Jawknee, me, World, Ben, everyone admits that.

And you still haven't gotten it through your head that I don't hate this game. I platinum'd it. Add me Underdog15 to do a trophy compare if you don't believe me.

I have said REPEATEDLY that I more or less enjoyed the title, and I believe it is worthy of the 80's score it received! Which is a great score!

My BEEF is that it DOES NOT measure up to the franchise standard. That is all. And it doesn't. All the features that got the former titles that "X" factor, are not present in FFXIII. And that's what critics recognize.

If, as you claim, your only reasoning is because you "understand development", then you should be able to understand my point of view... that it IS a good title from a production perspective. As Jawknee said, it has AAA production qualities, HOWEVER, it does not compare to the other FF's.

I thought that the moment I played it, beat it, and maintained that after I got the platinum. And I wrote about it... and others wrote about it... and then later it reflected that in overall professional scores. Everyone recognized... it's produced well... but the main ingredients to it being a 9+ title are nowhere to be seen.

Any FF fan can at least recognize that gameplay is vastly different from former FF's. Where you and I differ, is that you like the change. I do not. I find it simplistic and watered down.

I used those metacritic reviews, not to prove I'm right, but to maintain the fact that I am indeed not the only one that thinks that, and quite obviously, not within a mere 1%.

EDIT: I encourage you to read my FFXIII review. I'm no critic, by any means, as I lack the experience to be labeled as such. However, my review was good enough to win the Staff Choice Award from this website... Based on the feedback, some people really do agree with me.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/8/2010 12:24:52 PM

1 up, 0 down

slimey
Friday, October 08, 2010 @ 5:45:23 AM
Reply

Hopefully SE can follow the example of Ubisoft.

Assassins Creed was praised for its production values but damned by critics and the vocal gaming community for its shallow gameplay. Just like FFXIII....

The game sold well, but to their credit Ubisoft didn't rest on their laurels. They listened to the criticism and really delivered a fantastic game with Assassins Creed 2.

It goes to show that listening to the gaming community isn't opposed to good business decisions.

Ashe in FFXII is hot, but Lightning is red hot. Vanille is my least favourite game character of all time.

0 up, 0 down

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