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Final Fantasy Will Save Itself

The PSXE community has been vocal about what is perceived to be a derailing of the legendary Final Fantasy franchise. While I will always maintain that FFXIII was a fantastic game in its own right (outside of the FF name), many just saw it as too big of a departure and in taking a brief look at Final Fantasy Versus XIII, that may not fit the bill, either.

But enough with the negativity. It's too draining. I've decided to become very optimistic about the whole situation; it's not a blind optimism, either, because I have reasons. Just bear with me for a second: although this industry remains very much reliant on review scores, as most any publisher and analyst will tell you, there are a few titles out there that are almost - almost - immune to critical reception. Madden, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Halo; I think these franchises qualify and I also believe we can add Final Fantasy to the list. I'm not talking about spin-offs, per se, but I think we can all agree that Final Fantasy XV will be hotly anticipated and sell very well. At one point in Japan, FFXIII ended up being owned by nearly 1 in every 2 PS3 owners. ...that's insane.

It's also the brand name at work. FFXIII sold pretty darn well everywhere, in fact, and it's because of the name; not because of the inconsistent reviews, which were very un-FF-like. So, S-E doesn't really have to worry about this, do they? If they wanted to experiment, or if they wanted to attempt "fan service" and give us an actual RPG that made us go, "holy sh**, this is like a modern FFVII," they could do that. The risk is low. Secondly, just about every FF designer seems very tentative about FFXV; about where they intend to go; about the direction of the series. Hell, they seem downright baffled in some interviews. And all it requires is any one of them to spend a half-hour online, reading message boards and site communities...they'll find communities like ours, all asking for - essentially - the same thing: a return to form.

A return. Not a new idea you think will appeal to the Western gamers. If they even catch a glimmer of that, FFXV could very well be more like FFXII or Dragon Age. Thirdly and finally, that brand name can suffer if they stray too far and the S-E executives may be sensing a "straying" right about now, which could spell the end of FF immunity. But there's one caveat. I think they need to decide what they want to do. Do they really want to make an RPG or do they want to pursue yet another project that almost defies classification? It must be hard to nail down a direction and style when you don't have anything to compare it to...

But anyway, I say Final Fantasy can and will save itself. I say it's in a prime position to do so.

Tags: final fantasy, ff games, square-enix, ff franchise

10/17/2010 9:49:40 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (118 posts)

booze925
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:14:00 PM
Reply

huh. never knew final fantasy was in bad shape.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:20:30 PM

You've been liquored up for a long time then man.

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booze925
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:27:03 PM

wasn't 13 good? im mean i watched my bro play 7 and nothing can compare, but still.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:35:33 PM

It was good, but not what anyone hoped for. FF isn't in a bad spot financially, but it is with fans who have been there since its inception.

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:30:16 PM

I've been there since Day1 world and FFXIII didn't make me lose any love towards SE.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:44:18 AM

Yeah LV, but take a look around, you are all alone.

Crisis Core rules though.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:45:54 AM

The majority does not always equate to what's right or real.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:53:37 AM

Tell me about it (CoD) ;)

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Jawknee
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:59:01 AM

LOL!

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Qubex
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 4:08:04 AM

Loooooooooooooool World!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Godslim
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 7:21:19 AM

what exactly was wrong with it? i loved ff but sadly still havent got the new one

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 8:55:27 AM

@Godslim
"What's wrong with it" is a pretty difficult question to address with FFXIII. It's a really good game. However, it is very dissimilar to the rest of the franchise. Hence why Ben said in the article that it is a "departure" but still a great game in it's own right outside the FF title.

Most of us are upset about the departure. Opened the box and it wasn't what we expected. I think you'll probably enjoy it like I did (I platinum'd it), but it won't feel like a FF.

Guys like LV just didn't mind the departure. He's so open minded. I hear his basement will prove that, too!

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:50:25 AM

Actually it pissed me off and if the next FF game (not versus since I don't consider it a true FF game, more like KH on steroids) is anything like XIII's gameplay I'm going to give up on SE like the rest of you.

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Drake_RB3
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:22:36 PM

This was the only Final Fantasy game I have ever sold after playing.

And I've also got every iteration of FF IV. Final Fantasy VI remake please?

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bridgera
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 9:26:47 PM

Dito on being the only final fantasy that I've ever sold.

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Godslim
Friday, October 22, 2010 @ 11:27:41 AM

thxs Underdog15

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:20:05 PM
Reply

I admire your optimism but do not share in it. You forget one thing, the madness of Hojo.. I mean Wada. He is bound and determined (based on his own statements) to cast all fans aside, throw out the past, cater to the "west," and just generally take the series off into no man's land.

One could argue that FFXIII is another direction, but (and I agree about it being a great game in any case) all I can really see is that about 80% of an FF is missing from it. Hoj- I mean Wada will look at the sales, declare the game a massive success and just continue to create Sephiro- I mean FFXIII clones.

Versus looks pretty good so far but who can say what it will be like now? I just don't think SE listens to fans. The name may save it in sales, but not in people's hearts, and for that it will probably steadily die unless someone wakes up.

I think SE needs to start a sub-division, call it Squaresoft, and hire back all the old talent.

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:33:19 PM

You're being too pesamistic. Again while FFXIII may not have been the FF game most fans were looking for it doesn't mean it represents the FF games to come in the future. SE has always gone into each FF game as an individual build in and of itself so I see no reason to think differently now about the series.

I know zero about FFXV but I'm already looking forward to it, maybe even more than XIIIversus due to it's style of gameplay (action RPG).

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:05:45 AM

For starters, he says "I think this is a product that was able to meet the expectations for those who know Final Fantasy,"

I beg to differ, it much better fit those who don't know Final Fantasy very well. And the man keeps talking about how he's unsure of the direction for the future. And:

"whether we are going to continue to internally create this type of game remains to be seen" ...speaks for itsself.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/18/2010 12:05:59 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:11:48 AM

Bah, you're grabbing at straws (or something like that). Let's be honest you're pissed off about XIII and looking for reasons to hate on those involved with the game and the future of SE.

I certainly regard XIII as one of the weakest FF games but I enjoyed the trip it offered and still enjoyed it more than most games this generation. I see no reason to lose faith in the direction for the series based on a few half-a$$ quotes about a game we know nothing about that's years away from being released.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:14:20 AM

Limited, you have to admit S-E is straying further and further from standard role-playing elements. FF has remained fresh always but they at least kept elements RPG fans can recognize.

It's not that FFXIII is bad; I defend it, too. It's that FF has lost any sense of identity, and absolutely needs to redefine itself somehow.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:24:53 AM

I won't deny that. FFXIII does not deserve to be labeled as an RPG. I just don't think it's fair to take one game (as drastic as the changes were) and start to fear for the FF series. Versus has always been labeled as an Action RPG so I'm not going to blast the game for not living up to my FF tastes.

It will be interesting to see what SE does for FFXV, it sucks we wont know anything about it for a very long time.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:37:37 AM

It's really not just one. FFXIV may not be traditional but it has the Final Fantasy label, too, and it's getting 4s.

The DS game is mediocre. The portable they did before that (not Crisis Core) was also mediocre, or so I heard.

There WAS a time when if it said "Final Fantasy," it would be epic and awesome.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:49:56 AM

Meh, FFIVX is an MMORPG and while it's so far received low scores I see the overall scores for the game improving with time as content is added and bugs are fixed.

You're right though the FF name is not what it used to mean. I think the biggest factor is the multiplatform approach. It used to be a single FF game for one platform and it allowed for all the talent to work on that single product. Now it seems SE is watering down the talent pool and rushing far too many products and plastering the FF name on the box.

I still though have faith in the FF series and Crisis Core was entertaining and I don't care about the rest of the offshoot handheld games.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:50:37 AM

I'm not looking for a reason to hate on them LV, I'm looking for a reason to LOVE them again. And hopefully Versus will be one, but so far the only "straws" I'm grasping at are the ones they toss us. And every single word we get out of SE talks about throwing away the staples of the series and embracing some sort of nebulous concept of "west".

The claims and statements aren't mine, they come from SE. And there are more than a couple quotes. It seems clear that they have no intention of giving fans what they want. Maybe the series will change and get even bigger with its new fans, but they will be leaving me behind if they keep it up.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:55:48 AM

Didn't Wada also say the next Final Fantasy could possibly be made by a western developer? I'm usually on the same page as you LV but i agree with World on this one. I too would like a reason to love Square again. So far their PSP games are the only games keeping me from hating them. ha.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:24:23 AM

World and Jawk...sitting in a tree...bla bla bla

Fair enough, team up against me! I shall prevail. Just wait, XV is going to have a world map, a magic system similar to Materia, turn-based battles, girls that look 12 with big breasts, and the kicker...10minute long summons without the ability to skip the FMV. Oh how glorious it will be!

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 10/18/2010 1:25:01 AM

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Jawknee
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:26:56 AM

Lets hope you are 100% correct. ha!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:51:41 AM

I would spend ridiculous amounts of money on that. But FF DID make the right decision by allowing "short" summons as an option.

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SvenMD
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:18:04 AM

Listen - Ben said it best, FF has lost it's identity....but hey, they just turned 13...FF is a teenager now. We all lost our identity in those years. Maybe we grew our hair out and tried some gateway drugs...or maybe we even snorted some blow...but we got our lives together...we're OK. FF will be OK too.

Remember, "it's just a phase"
;)

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:24:41 AM

I used to use Knights of the Round, go make a hot dog, pop open a fresh beer, check out a few sports highlights, and come back to the tv just in time to see the last 2 or 3 knights take a hack at the enemy...

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Fane1024
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 6:58:19 PM

"It used to be a single FF game for one platform and it allowed for all the talent to work on that single product. Now it seems SE is watering down the talent pool and rushing far too many products and plastering the FF name on the box."

QFT

I think the key misstep was the whole Fabula Crystalis idea, dividing their effort among multiple projects instead of giving us one proper FFXIII.

It reeks of Activision.

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BTNwarrior
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:20:52 PM
Reply

And hopefully ff13 vs will be the first step to reform

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Snaaaake
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:26:02 PM
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Every FF will sell a lot based on the name FF, but even then, if they're ignoring the fans for good, it's safe to assume the FF series will die.

No franchise is safe without their fans.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 10:34:37 PM

Which is why I fear for DmC.

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Snaaaake
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:39:18 PM

The DMC franchise never sold beyond 3 million copies each series, hell, it never even reached 3 million for each.
Their reason to westernize it because DMC4 sold 2.7 million copies isn't legit.

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TheCrazyMerc
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:23:43 PM
Reply

FFXV=FFVII Remake! :O

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:30:28 PM

gay

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:25:42 AM

Takes one to know one, LV!

HA!

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:31:18 AM

GAY!!!!!!!

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:29:30 PM
Reply

I'm with booze on this one. FFXIII may not have been the game most FF fans were expecting but I don't see the FF series in any trouble based on the performance of one game in a multiple decade long series full of stellar games.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:15:36 AM

How about sub-par spin-offs we didn't have before? Like the one just released on the DS? And are you that convinced Versus XIII will be what the fans actually want...?

From where I sit, they're doing nothing for the fans. They're doing everything to change. That isn't necessarily a good thing.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:21:28 AM

Those spin-offs are a result of handhelds finally catching up with technology and being able to offer classic games with a sprinkle of new for dirt cheap. I don't see the trend as a negative on SE but the industry as a whole.

As far as Versus, I'm not really looking forward to it. I've never been that into Action RPGs and I see it being loved by the KH crowd but not the old-school fan base. I still lump the game within the FFXIII collection so if it ends up bombing/equaling XIII I still won't start to get concerned for the series. When you're creating dozens of games over multiple decades you're bound to have a few mess-ups and if anything I trust SE to learn from this.

I really hope I'm right on this, and I'm sure you are as well.



Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 10/18/2010 12:22:10 AM

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Falsate
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:33:44 AM

"And are you that convinced Versus XIII will be what the fans actually want...?"

Honestly, it sounds like fan service. Throwing around 'Dark and Tragic', Airships and World Maps all sound like an appeal to the nostalgic. These elements will undeniably attract a vast amount, but whether it is something even the core fans are looking for is hard to actually determine.

Last edited by Falsate on 10/18/2010 12:34:18 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:36:28 AM

Falsate,

None of that will matter when the gameplay equates to Kingdom Hearts. Than you're just playing Kingdom Hearts without the Disney characters and the "fans" are going to realize this within the first hour.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:58:44 AM

Kingdom Hearts without Disney characters actually sounds like a good game.

Still, I don't think it will cater to old fans at all. They toss those concepts out there to generate hype. But at least it is meant to be a departure, not a solid numbered title where failure is not an option.

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New School
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:14:14 AM

I'm always on reading articles and comments and i decided to register. Well anyway, i'm 17, bought my PS3 in 2007, saved up my own money. The main reason i bought my PS3 was the notion that Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 were both playstation exclusives, so Kingdom Hearts should be as well. When I heard that FFv13 was made by the same people that made kingdom hearts i was extremely happy. Since i wouldn't be getting KH i would get something with the same style, a similar feel. I tried to play turned based RPG's and there not my thing, asides from pokemon, probably because i grew up playing pokemon. I personally think that Kingdom hearts is a great game that has a continuing story, unlike these other games that get you connected with the characters and you never see them again until a handheld fighting game is made. the first final fantasy game I've ever played was 13, so that probably ruined the great name of final fantasy for me. To me Kingdom hearts may be childish, but the level of attentiveness that has to be put into the story outweighs the fact that KH may be childish.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:21:14 AM

Then you will most likely LOVE FFVersus.


Oh and congrats on almost being legal :)

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eLLeJuss
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:34:05 PM
Reply

Yup. Right when they make the FFVII REmake. i know it

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Drake88
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:35:39 PM
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The only thing i like about ff13 is the MUSIC, hands down. don't know what the hell SE is doin now within their future gameplay, but their music is well respected. And FFT, is the greatest FF of all time... and X, that's all. :)

Last edited by Drake88 on 10/17/2010 11:36:48 PM

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TheCrazyMerc
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:38:09 PM

Nobou Uematsu did very well with all FF's although he didnt compose anything new for FF13, the music was still pretty bad***

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:59:21 AM

The music was great, helped you get through the muck.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:31:28 AM

I disagree about the music. It might have been good, but listen.... it's the same friggin' song for the entire game... just with a different twist depending on the mood.

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Drake_RB3
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:27:51 PM

Nobou Uematsu is a master composer, hope he comes back for XV. I really wish I hadn't lost that report I did on him for a music class in college.

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Saffleur
Sunday, October 17, 2010 @ 11:41:42 PM
Reply

I guess I take a different approach with FF. Each game is it's own thing for me. I don't mind learning new systems and look forward to each one eagerly.

I don't judge the game based on the IP's history.

Same way with Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, DMC, et al.

Give me whatever you want hojo. I'll play it and be content.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:38:22 AM

Every FF has a different system, but it maintains elements that give the franchise identity. We've seen magicite (FFVI), job systems (FFV, FFI, FFIII), materia (FFVII), GF/Junction (FFVIII), abilities learned from equips (FFIX), Licenses (FFXII), Sphere Grid(FFX), etc. ALL different systems with it's own unique set of strategy. FFXIII had a job system, sort of, but it was limited and for the most part, "auto" is the strategy of choice for everyone....

FFXIII is the first FF where the AI will auto do your strategy for you... All you have to worry about is mixing the right classes at the right time... the actual actions matter not. how dull.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/18/2010 9:59:50 AM

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Temjin001
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:06:25 AM
Reply

I think the FF series will be alright. I remember when I was younger I had played through FF6 before FF7 ever released or was even talked about, and I had played about 10 hours of FFIV, I watched my bro play the first game. Once the PSX and FF7 rolled around, I was real excited for the huge leap in presentation. I liked the game when it released but I had a group of friends from that same gen who thought FF7 was a dramatic departure, and they even considered it disappointing. I still thought it was cool. The music wasn't quite as big of a jump as I had hoped from FF6, but still good anyway, even if I didn't get the story at the time.
What I'm getting at is that there may be a younger generation who embraces the design of FF13 and considers the older 32-bit era as un-interesting. SImilarly, I also remember anti-tekken 3 sentiments after Tekken 2. It just seems some people don't want what's dear to them to change at all.

But something I think everyone can count on seeing from FF going forward is a huge wondrous world of fantasy and beauty that has been the hallmark of the series for what seems like forever. Perhaps the appeal of that sort of content alone will keep the series at the fore-front of millions of gamer's interests for years to come and not so much for the modernizing of the game formats play.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:17:17 AM

It's well known that people fall under the spell of "Things were better back in the day" mentality but there is no doubt that FFXIII offered some of the weakest FF aspects seen thus far in the series and if that trend continues in future games in the series the FF name will equate to generic RPG with high production values but mediocre gameplay.

The first dozen +(X-2) FF were great, offered the best gaming I've ever had the pleasure of having on any system ever created BUT I see no reason the trend can't continue in the future and eclipse the entertainment/value offered by the first 12 games in the series.

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Falsate
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:29:34 AM

"It's well known that people fall under the spell of "Things were better back in the day" mentality[..]"

Other wise known as 'Nostalgia'.

Regarding this post, Wada can't be blamed completely. It all eventually falls back on the fact that this is an industry; a business at its very core looking for a profitable market.

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Temjin001
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:52:06 AM

I won't prostrate myself out on the ground with a room full of armed FF elites but I think it's safe to say that the first 12 FF's weren't ALL awesome. Have you tried playing the first game lately? I downloaded it for the Wii and UGHH! It's terrible.
Basically, what I'm saying is that FF is a long running series that has been a favorite of more than one generation of gamer. As gaming trends change gamers may identify with elements more-so than others.
Yes, we have fond memories of walking through virtual towns populated with random bystanders who offer up usually useless one line phrases, but this sort of component may not strike a future set of gamer the same way it did for us when gaming was more primitive in design. Just as turn-based games seem to be recognized as a dated way of playing when everything is so visually realized in modern games. As video games progress in power there becomes a precedent to keep your games exciting on presentational end. Perhaps some publishers or devs feel that having a cast of characters lined up in a row standing face to face with the enemy while waiting for an ATB meter to charge has an antiquated vibe about it that may turn off newer adopters of more powerful consoles who are more interested in bigger exhilarating experiences. Genre hardcores seems to be the casualties of technological modernization in gaming.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:06:31 AM

I REALLY don't think the FFVI-VII is the same as the jump to FFXIII. I understand some were disappointed about the change from medieval type of presentation to a more modern presentation, but the GAMEPLAY remains more or less the same.

In fact, in terms of battle system, the difference between VI and VII is very small. Both games have special abilities unique to each character. Both have a magical crystal you can equip to learn/use different types of magic/summons. (The jump from magicite to materia is not that big of a change) Both are turn based. The only REAL difference is 3 instead of 4 characters. Both have an ATB...

Basically, people resented the departure from traditional SETTING. Now it's an issue about a departure from like.... everything... battle system, NPC's, towns, exploration.... the freakin' works!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:39:26 AM
Reply

For the record, and I think everybody knows, but I'm the biggest FF fan there is. It's my all time favorite series and will likely remain that way forever.

But I can't give FF a free pass when "Final Fantasy" is on at least two sub-par games in a few years, and one game that was great, but wasn't an RPG... That's all I'm saying.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:51:50 AM

I'm 6'2 210 and I'm pretty sure older than you so I think that makes me the biggest FF fan (using my insane logic).

What were the 2 sub-par games? Please don't say FFXII....I loved it...I loved it so much.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 12:55:09 AM

Final Fantasy: 4 Heroes of Light (average score of about a 7)

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers: (about 6.5 average)

FFXIV (about 5)

And I hate to nitpick, but...I'm 6'3, 230. ;)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/18/2010 12:55:17 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:15:20 AM

Damn, you's a big boy! :)


To be honest I don't consider anything without a roman numeral after the FF to be a TRUE FF game and thus its score is irrelevant to me. Just like Luigi's Mansion wasn't a true Mario game.

But at least we agree that the FF name has been watered down by SE and the FF name no longer equates to excellence.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:26:48 AM

Damn... I'm only 6'0" at 190.... But I can run! I'm gonna call myself the biggest FF fan that can also run real fast.

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DrRockso87
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:05:09 AM
Reply

I hope so. The "Final Fantasy" series seems to scraping the bottom of the barrel lately. The last "Final Fantasy" game I enjoyed was 'Crisis Core', whereas 'Final Fantasy XIII' was just plain awful. I still have trouble finding at least one redeeming feature about that game.

I'm praying 'Final Fantasy Versus XIII' rights the wrongs of XIII. Don't care in the least if it's "just Kingdom Hearts", it'll be much more "Final Fantasy-y" than XIII is. Also, it'll probably be the last "Final Fantasy" game I really enjoy since IX (X was good, not great, and XII was meh).

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:11:43 AM
Reply

Here's my view whittled down to a simple thought:

The biggest and best RPG franchise of all time was going to be unleashed on the biggest baddest best console of all time and so people (especially fans) expected, quite rightly in my view, a giant explorable world, cities filled with people, a dynamic battle system, all the little things that made FF unique, plus a twisting and elevating plotline replete with rich characters on both sides of the conflict.

Well, none of that happened. Is that alone reason to think it can't happen? No, but this console cycle might not even last long enough for an FFXV to come out since SE announces a new game every month. And whenever we get info out of SE, it is always bad news. Nothing adds up to a brighter future any time soon. I just don't see a massive bit of fan service popping up out of nowhere like FFIX did.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/18/2010 1:12:43 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:20:00 AM

SE has treated me great for over 2 decades. Sometimes there are rough patches in a marriage (especially if it's Spring in Utah) but there are better days ahead. SE screwed up big time with XIII and instead of offering all the things you listed and expanding on the core RPG elements we'd grown to love they reduced the game in all areas.

If XV turns out to be anything like XIII I will personally mail you a written apology for having the viewpoint I currently have on the series.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:24:35 AM

haha, actually LV, I hope you are right in this debate. In this particular marriage it feels a bit like my wife just said "You don't do it for me anymore, so I'm gonna test out some other options and I may or may not be back."

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:31:13 AM

LOL....but that's what's great, now you can go play the field too and it's not cheating on SE and than by the time XV rolls around all will be forgotten and the sex, I mean gameplay will be better than ever!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:41:28 AM

I suppose, but it's slim pickins my friend. I REALLY wanna get with Suikoden VI, but haven't heard a peep. I started XIII again a few days ago, but it will probably just tide me over till Amazon delivers New Vegas. Though that's not as much an RPG in my book, I'm as thrilled as a hooker who got paid.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:30:26 AM

FFXIII like a really bad marriage....

Where have I heard that used before?

;)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 1:59:48 AM
Reply

I have to get this out. It's AERIS, damn you Crisis Core. Aerith is a terrible name.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:22:23 AM

Hmm, I always thought it was pronounced Dead-Bitch.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:30:15 AM

Nobody would have cared about that if it was "Aerith" in the original US release of FFVII.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:16:03 AM
Reply

I can't really have an opinion here, as I've only played FFXIII and Dissidia, but thoroughly enjoyed both. I'm waiting for my copy of FFX to arrive so I can delve into those two games.

I think that Ben is right, and Final Fantasy will manage to right itself again, although I hesitate to look for that salvation in FFXV after the sales success that was XIII and the departure that is XIV. Versus XIII is going to be a lovely experiment for the series, but I don't really see it being a love letter to the fans as it should be. I'm looking more towards Agito XIII to be that.

Here's the thing, I thought that FFXIII was a brilliant game for what it was, not what its past was. It may have torn away all of the elements that made the franchise, and indeed an RPG, but it still managed to work, and I foresee S-E making FFXV a blend of the ease and simplicity of XIII with the elements that they were maligned for excluding in that game, such as towns and external characters. I see them modifying the battle system to incorporate more stategy, but retaining much of the 'corridors-y' feel.

Also, I can't really count FFXIV, as it is an MMO, above being an FF, and so many of them strive, and fail, to be WoW, simply because they don't have... perhaps not mass appeal... but that little itch that makes people come back, that bit that makes people want to share the game with their friends.

I've rambled on for too long. There is hope for Final Fantasy yet, as S-E seems unable to decide on the route to go. This is also a potentially disastrous thing. Perhaps when the details of the newest game in the venerable franchise start trickling out, everything will become clearer, but until such a time, we can but cross our fingers and pray to the gaming gods that they can get it right in the eyes of the fans, and garner the mass market to go along with that.
Peace.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:21:30 AM

"I can't really have an opinion here, as I've only played FFXIII and Dissidia"

EXACTLY


:)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:32:19 AM

Dissidia is kinda neat, is the second one going to PSP? I wouldn't be surprised if it was DS only.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:11:22 AM

Damn you LV... At least I was trying to relate what I know of the franchise to the past of it, and my consequent hope for the future.

World,
Dissidia Duodecim: Final Fantasy is still PSP exclusive. Square-Enix still knows where their fans are in that respect.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:25:15 AM

Good, I wanna play the Dewey Decimal System.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 4:11:21 AM

Nice name for it.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:33:53 AM

@Lawless
Actually, in terms of gameplay, FFXIV is not the departure. It needs to be patched up a fair bit... I'm not sure it's finished, actually, lol. But for gameplay.... FFXIV is a lot more like the FF's I know from the past.

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___________
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:29:56 AM
Reply

wishful thinking.
if it does, i swear to god i will eat my favorite hat!
the only thing that can save FF, and i know this sounds crazy, but the only thing that can save FF is for $E to go broke!
than maybe they will see what they have done to there company, and appreciate what they have.
instead of saying noooooo 10M fans is not enough, we have to change our game so we can have 10.5M fans, maybe they will be great full for what they got?
eh, thats wishful thinking too.

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kokoro
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:51:51 AM
Reply

Yoichi Wada thinks the Dunning-Kruger effect doesn't apply to him.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:25:37 AM

Okay I'll bite, what's that?

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kokoro
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 6:56:12 AM

Quote from Wikipedia:

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."

Last edited by kokoro on 10/18/2010 6:58:44 AM

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Shams
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:55:09 AM

Hm. In other words, the truly competent are those who are self-critical, first. They question and check their own assumptions before others do, even in the simplest things, which others don't bother to do.
Some of the incompetent mistake this self-check in the competent as self-doubt...and in turn, mistake themselves for being more competent since they themselves lack this "self-doubt".

So Kokoro is saying that Wada's complacent commentary, lacking any "self-doubt" is the surest sign of his incompetence.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:36:18 AM

yeah... sounds about right.

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slimey
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:31:54 AM
Reply

LimitedVertigo

If you only consider the core numbered Final Fantasy games, it means you miss out out on Final Fantasy Tactics, one of the greatest games ever made. I racked up about 90hrs on the PSP remake

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:34:23 AM

I didn't miss out on that. I played it and enjoyed it but I don't consider it a TRUE Final Fantasy game. Ben may love that game more than anything else but even he will admit it isn't a true Final Fantasy game.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:02:59 PM

I defended XIII to the death, right up until it released.

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shadowscorpio
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 1:23:30 PM

I was objective but I was hoping that it would live up to Final Fantasy standards. Unfortunately when it was released.... well we all know how that went down.

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Vivi_Gamer
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:38:19 AM
Reply

If FFXV turns out to be as bland as FFXII i expect another article like this.

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Godslim
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 7:23:00 AM

i liked 12 :S

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Vivi_Gamer
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:29:21 AM

... lets just leave it at "i didn't".

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www
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 6:35:26 AM
Reply

FFversusXIII and XV will return FF to it's original form, believe.

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telly
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:08:37 AM
Reply

I'll be honest -- I would be perfectly ok with major changes in the FF series if the games were good. I know there are mixed feelings on this here and don't mean to offend anyone, but I thought FF XIII was the biggest waste of $60 imaginable. I literally couldn't stand it and had to quit, and I would have felt that way no matter who developed it or what it was called.

SE wants to make a more traditional FF next time? Great, I'm listening. They want to go in a major new direction? Conceivably, that would work too. But bad game design is bad game design, either way. And at this point, I'd just settle for a great game of any kind.

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Kiryu
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:40:15 AM
Reply

Do you guys know Square Enix Seeking Final Fantasy Versus XIII Planners.Goto the square enix website and there is a recruitment page .The notice says that Square Enix is seeking a large number of planners for Versus XIII. There are two specific listings: battle planner and level design planner.
They haven't even started planning for FFversus13 that's my guess!

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Shams
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:07:19 AM

Hearing that, and seeing the FMV of the past year or so, tells me that

1. it's a game where the storyline and production values has been developed first, and the gameplay will be decided on later...or

2. that the battle mechanics, and artistic vision of the levels have already been decided on, and all they need is people to plan out the actual battles to be scripted, and flesh out the level designs.

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Lotusflow3r
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 9:53:01 AM
Reply

Am i the only one not giving Enix my time anymore?

The constant moaning about them....Another company is keeping the golden era alive with a perfect blend of gold and new and have announced a game that could be set to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time, a game we supposedly cry out for, The Another World.

I see countless moaning posts about Enix and the state of modern RPG and no love to what could be a modern masterpiece.

We had half a minute of VsXlll footage that we couldn't see and it got a headline. And when the footage surfaced, it wasn't a fraction of the wow factor that The Another World brought with it's new WATCHABLE trailer and TWO PLAYABLE demos at the same event.
Read the reactions to The Another World to see people say it will be THE JRPG saviour we want.

VsXlll and any other FF have me 0 excited. I was hardcore up until FFXll when i realised Enix are ruined.

Point: Why waste time with Enix when others such as Level 5, Mystwalker, Atlus and From Software are carrying our magic onward?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:19:11 AM

Why? Uh...because of the role the company in question played in all our gaming lives for about a quarter-century?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:37:53 AM

I'm starting to think Lotus works for Level5. I swear every post of his contains a mention of The Another World.

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Lotusflow3r
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 5:37:19 PM

Ben,

I don't understand answering a question with a question.
But, to try and add to my points, how about almost the same amount of time (8 years) of them dwindling said role and others furthering it?

LimitedBrain,

Sure.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 10:19:55 AM

Sheesh, sorrrreeeeeeeeeeee!

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 10:47:16 AM
Reply

Here's the thing... FFXIII was a good game. I platinum'd it, and I'm glad I did. But I probably won't play it again. It has no grabbing appeal to me like the past titles had. In the end, I got my money's worth to consider it a good investment, putting in about 70-ish hours.

But how does it compare to what I got from past FF's?

Well, since I got FFVII at release... I have religiously played and beaten it every two years. I do the same with FFVIII. FFIX and FFX I play whenever I get the itch, but not as religiously. The SNES and NES games I play as time killers whenever the wife is on the tv or if I'm on the crapper. (I have the NES games on my phone, and the SNES on my computer)

FFT is a game I come back to every few years too!

Here's the thing... FFXIII is good enough to be a good investment... I put in 70 hours, and doubt I'll ever touch it again, as is the case with many good games I own and am glad I own. It was good enough.

The other FF's? I've literally put in HUNDREDS of hours into many of them, and I will continue to put more into them in the future. FFVII has probably seen close to 500 hours from me over the past 13-14 years. FFVIII has probably seen 250 or so... tactics I KNOW has seen at LEAST 200 hours from me. I bet FFVI has seen over 100. And if you combine FFI-FFV, those have amounted to 300-400 hours too. (These numbers are over the last 15-20 years, bear in mind!)

So yeah... FFXIII is good... but it is definitely no Final Fantasy. To me, Final Fantasy is a game I buy and play the rest of my life. FFXIII is a loner in this regard (excluding the MMO's).

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/18/2010 10:49:18 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:41:29 AM

I'm the same in regards to replaying past FF games. I find myself playing XII the most, I love the gameplay/soundtrack/setting. But I don't think it's fair to rate a game based on its re-playability.

XIII's hand holding through a large part of the game certainly makes replaying it a difficult thing. I don't think I'll be replaying it nearly as often as the past FF games but I still view it as a great game. As a FF fan it let me down bigtime but it offered me well over 70hrs of fun, something few games this generation have offered me.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:36:25 PM

After you beat it, there should be a plus mode where you have all your paradigm powers and the crystarium from the word go. No tutorial, just total dominance... ah nevermind, come to think if it that would make the game even easier than it was.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 10:20:48 AM

@World
Plus, you'd lose 5-10 hours of gameplay from the tutorials being removed.

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Dante399
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 2:44:43 PM
Reply

If only I had the money to make a remake of any game I wanted, I would definitely remake all FF series into JRPGs.

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DemonNeno
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 3:10:35 PM
Reply

You know, chevy is always scrutinized for their overhead valve motors. Yet, accomplishing 600 hp + is incredibly easy, steetable and efficient. S-E needs to do their version of that very concept. Producing very Japanese games that are their heritage, for the company and country, is crucial when all others delve on aspects that aren't their own.

Ben, I would love to be optimistic as well, but I need at least a little light at the end of the tunnel before I'm able to turn my opinion around. Not much, other than FFVII talks, seems very convincing to me. We all know that means very little at this point. I would love to see our beloved series make that return...

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slimey
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 5:35:09 PM
Reply

why is FF Tactics not a true FF game?

it had more of the traditional and well loved RPG & FF elements than FFXIII.
e.g towns; the job system (used in previous FF games); summons that actually made a difference on the battle field unlike the useless FFXIII gestalt thingies; a decent story

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Underdog15
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 11:03:50 PM

I agree with all but one point. FFT definitely didn't have towns. It had map locations with the names of towns... but like FFXIII, you could only access shops through a menu.

Everything else on your list though... you're right.

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RebelJD
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 5:38:28 PM
Reply

I don't like the idea behind moves in the gaming industry now-a-days. I don't like how the "Western" part of the World is overtaking what developers want to create. In fact, it isn't, they just think it is. Which is really stupid.

For decades we played and enjoyed games developed by companies not stationed in the U.S. We played them, we loved them, and we helped in making them household names in this industry.

You know, years ago the internet didn't exist, blogging didn't exist, being able to put in your two cents to shift the way a game was coming out didn't exist. Years ago we only had magazines to rely on for information and what we read we had to take, as is. We shared our opinion amongst our peers and wrote letters to the editor with hopes that they would actually read them and press them in their magazine.

The way games are coming out, I would have to say, is novice. Especially when developers are listening to what the consumer wants.

Here's the "It" factor to being the best of the best. You don't give the people what they want, you give them what they need. The majority of the time the people have no idea what it is that they NEED. That's where the big boys come in and put their mark down.

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Slime
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 7:12:53 PM
Reply

Every time I see news of a new RPG game coming out on the PS3 get all excited ... then in the next moment i get all sad because yay its another action RPG !! pfft ! Im not against action RPG's but surley theres enough for now. I want some turn based action :) And on ps3 not psp !
The last rpg i enjoyed was Dragon age a PRPG (pause RPG) near enough hehe :D

At the momemt I'm playing disgaea 3 again since i noticed theres now trophy support nearlly 60 hours in and got nowhere doing item world on low level items leveling up really slowly hardly got any story done but still enjoying myself.

I can see in future I may become a big NiS fan and just dream of the days when I played a game called final fantasy :)

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Slime
Monday, October 18, 2010 @ 7:19:29 PM
Reply

ps also been playing agarest as well think im getting into these kind of rpgs more as time goes by

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bingshi
Tuesday, October 19, 2010 @ 9:34:51 PM
Reply

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GamerO1
Thursday, October 21, 2010 @ 9:04:09 AM
Reply

Slime, you are "right on"...
I own every FF in existance, ordered FFXIII yesterday for $18 new. I played it at a friends and didn't like it, but I need it for my collection.
Turn Based is the only way to go, I'm playing Dragon Quest VIII on the PS2 again. It's Great.
I've played Dragon Quest IX, on the DS, 3 times. The Best NEW Tured Based RPG out there.
Like NIS, Atlus is pretty good too.
Final Fantasy XIV is on-line - So Sad !!!

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