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Should GTAV Strive For Realism Or "Fun Factor?"

We can't be too far away from a Grand Theft Auto V unveiling, and I've been wondering about how Rockstar will approach this new project.

While I will always maintain that GTAIV is one of the best games of the generation, I understand the rift it caused between long-time hardcore fans of the franchise. People complained about the inability to do crazy arcade-y stuff and weren't too keen on the more authentic atmosphere; in other words, I think people sort of connected with the almost cartoony aspect of previous installments.

Of course, they were only that way due to a lack of hardware and technology capability, which is why we saw the darker, grittier, more realistic GTA entry on the next generation of consoles. The developers have always said they wanted to make it a more complete, atmospheric experience; they wanted to lose the idea that GTA was almost like a caricature of big-city, over-the-top violence. However, what if that's what the fans truly desire? What if they want something more like Just Cause, which features some seriously insane gameplay thanks to a totally unrealistic grappling hook? But at the same time, don't the hardcore gamers want extra realism in other games, like shooters and action experiences...?

I mean, given the technology Rockstar has at their disposal now, I think they have a choice. I'm just wondering how people would respond to something like Vice City 2, with all the same silliness, only...prettier. I imagine it has to be quite the topic of conversation amongst GTA aficionados; just look at what happened when GTAIV arrived. It was a little different in terms of atmosphere and style, and it really didn't go over well with some fans who sorta went, "hey...this isn't GTA."

I said something similar at first but I quickly came 'round to the correct way of thinking: "hey, this isn't GTA...it's a much better GTA." Granted, my favorite will probably always be Vice City but that's just because I'm an '80s fiend (very subjective, I know). But what say you? What should Rockstar do with GTAV? Got some ideas?

Tags: grand theft auto, gta, gtav, grand theft auto v, rockstar

10/24/2010 9:27:27 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (173 posts)

Temjin001
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:03:08 PM
Reply

If GTA strived for more ninjas then maybe I'd be interested =p

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:20:49 PM
Reply

How about decency and class. ;)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:21:16 PM

I prefer decadence and ass

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:23:08 PM

LOL!

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:50:16 PM

Yummy

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:20:56 PM
Reply

Go ahead and have your realistic mode, then once you beat it you unlock the "Go nuts" mode with wierdo stunts and wacky missions. And then you add in the "Go nuts" codes like perfect driving and street riots and throwing heads around as weapons and there you go. Everybody's happy.

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Temjin001
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:32:27 PM

dang man, I think you got it figured out.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:42:06 PM

Lol for real!

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:54:07 PM

More nudity and gore or I'm going to be pissed.

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swapnilgyani
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:18:38 PM

That actually sounds like a damn good idea!

You know how you could play those QUB3D games on the in-game consoles of GTA IV?

Well, make GTA V more realistic, and give us a playable Vice City sim on the in-game consoles...that would be the best GTA experience for me!

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Alienange
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:23:08 PM
Reply

I really liked where GTAIV took the series. Taking out the goofiness didn't take out the fun or the action. If anything, the storytelling was enhanced and it gave us a full package.

If the enhancements found in RDR are any indication, I highly doubt any serious gamer is going to be disappointed with GTAV.

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BikerSaint
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:27:43 PM
Reply

I know most won't agree with me, but as I got older, I started growing out of the cartoony era, so with that said, I loved how GTA4 has evolved into a more realistic game.

And I for one, would like to see GTA go more realistic with each new upcoming # in the game's series.

But in the same token, I wouldn't mind if GTA would also keep up some of the cartoonyness for a few of the side missions, just to keep the nostalgia of all the older GTA's in the mix too.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:27:48 PM
Reply

Is it to much to ask? How about a little bit of both? GTA IV is the best game ever. People still play it today.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:32:10 PM

"GTA IV is the best game ever."

LOL!

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:38:45 PM

Jawknee

Theres no need to start anything dude, here we go again with people hating on my every opinions. Listen we all have our opinions, im okay with you liking Hanna Montanna or what ever it is you play on your spare time because its your likings and disllikings. Its your opinion, well your quote is my exact opinion, ok?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:52:41 PM

Hannah Montana on the stripper pole...

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BikerSaint
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:54:30 PM

I've got well over 90 hours in GTA4 so far, & I'm only at 82%.
Benn loving the whole game(except for the helo chase, that one's been a real MoFo of a biatch)

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:44:42 PM

Killa Tequilla,

If you're going to say something as absurd as "GTAIV is the best game ever" than expect to get made fun of.

Honestly man, I'd love for you to list your reasons for thinking such a thing.

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:21:10 AM

Agree with LV... I myself think its the most overrated game ever

They should just go for fun like they used to because lets face it. They botched the realism attempt.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:08:25 AM

Remember folks, it is his opinion. And opinions are subjective. You don't have to agree.

There is no reason to make fun of someone just because you don't agree.

Damn, sometimes I wonder if we're in the middle of a grade school courtyard around here. Some of you need to respect other people's opinions and let it go.

If you don't have anything positive to say, then don't reply. I realize that if this were the case, some people would never reply, e.g. anonymous coward, as well as a few others.

If you must reply, try not to be so damn contentious.

I'm sorry Jawk, but just flat out laughing at someone's opinion is just so damn immature. A more mature approach would have been to just ask him why he thinks GTAIV is so great and then debate him on the merits. I know you can do that. I’ve seen you do that many times.

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:28:35 AM

"If you don't have anything positive to say, then don't reply. I realize that if this were the case, some people would never reply, e.g. anonymous coward, as well as a few others."

Are you kidding me? If someone posts an opinion that I don't agree with and I feel strongly enough about my opinion, you better believe I'm going to reply in the way I see fit. I have an opinion as well as a right to voice that opinion. For you to even have the audacity to say when and in what manner I can do that and how you can even think people are going to listen is just boyond me.

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maxpontiac
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:13:31 AM

Best game ever? I gotta laugh at that one as well.

Not a fan of Rockstar's open world games like GTAIV and Red Dead at all. Got bored with them both, and returned them as well.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:00:58 AM

Lol, if someone says something so absurd, I find nothing wrong in having a chuckle at it, opinion or not. It was funny. Now calm down mom.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/25/2010 10:12:35 AM

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:05:41 AM

laxpro,

I agree. You have a right to speak your mind. My point was that there is no reason to ridicule someone for an opinion that differs from yours. The key word being ridicule... that is so third grade.

Jawk,

Absurd is IN YOUR OPINION. I'm sure your moralistic stance concerning this game is hilarious to some, but it is your right to have that opinion without being ridiculed for it.

You and I both fall on the same side of the political spectrum, but I don't hold your moralistic beliefs about GTA IV.

Besides, if I recall correctly, GTA IV won many GOTY awards the year it came out. So, his opinion isn't as "absurd" as you claim.

My point is that I know you can argue why you dislike the game without ridiculing some one for their opinion.

Last edited by Orvisman on 10/25/2010 11:12:43 AM

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WolfCrimson
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:13:05 AM

What the hell is up with you guys? Fighting over this? Seriously? Killa Tequila just stated what game he views to be the best game, as in he likes the game so much that he views it to be the best. That's HIS preference. End of story. It's not hurting anyone. And it's very uncalled for to antagonize him just for that.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:35:40 AM

LOL! no one is getting bent out of shape except Orvisman. Please Orvisman, spare me the lectures on relativism. I really don't care what you think of my opinion.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:05:46 PM

LOL. I'm not getting bent out of shape. You are just one arrogant SOB aren't you.

Of course you wouldn't care what anyone else thinks of your opinion because the only opinion that matters is your own and those that agree with you. Can you say narcism?

I just pointed out that it was his opinion and he has a right to it and that you don't need to belittle it. Then you started attacking me.

Again, the act of a small mind... or penis... you're overcompensating for something and trying to make yourself feel superior.

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Killa Tequilla
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:16:14 PM

@ Orvisman

Thanks for the help dude :)
was outnumbered 2:1....

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Kowhoho
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:02:59 PM

Orvisman, your statements lost any semblance of validity the moment you began taking personal shots at Jawk in such a childish way. It's your own fault things got blown out of proportion.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:13:46 PM

Kowhoho,

I'm just pointing out that if someone is going to ridicule someone for having an opinion that differs from them it is bascially because that person is trying to make themself feel superior to that other person. And only people who are overcompensating for something else try to push others down and make themselves feel superior.

I'm done with this.

I'm going out for a bike ride.

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bridgera
Wednesday, October 27, 2010 @ 1:26:23 AM

"there is no reason to make fun of someone because you don't agree"

...

He didn't say "I think GTAIV is the best game ever".... that's an opinion.

He stated it as if it were a fact... and yes... we'll make fun of him for that.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:36:09 PM
Reply

GTA IV so much memories in that game, really. Best game ever made. Especially becuase back then GTA was way better than anything made. It was just awesome. The feeling of it I got when I took my DS3 and just started playing. Driving a car around. I always wanted to know what would happen next. Not to mention the game was long. It really is fun and realistic. But I just keep asking myself, what if it was a Ps3 exclusive? I mean if you think about it, its as big as Xbox can be, meaning blu ray has more space... Imagine A city thats 4x bigger than Liberty City. More cars, more story, more weapons, more exploring, more trophies, more water, more fun, more of everything. A blu ray disk hold up to 25gb single layered or 50gb dual layered. Imagine the possibilities... Unimaginable.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:41:07 PM

Red Dead Redemption is a better game than GTAIV. I don't see whats so great about glorifying a life of crime.

I personally couldn't stand to play it anymore after the first ten minutes. All the "big ass titties" talk was ridiculous.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/24/2010 10:42:22 PM

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:47:41 PM

GTA and RDR are made by the same developers. Rockstar★.
I like both games equally, BUT I played GTA far more than RDR. In RDR its sooo big, wich isnt a bad thing, but thers less to explore, you often find yourself lonely in the wild west and far from everyone. Im talking about free roam off course. Hmmm... but you know im not complaining here, developers cand please millions of people. I love anything Rockstar★. Best developers IN MY OPINION.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:51:35 PM

RDR has redeeming value to it. GTA does not.

Again, what's so great about glorifying a life of crime?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:54:30 PM

You two can squabble about this all you want, what I'd like to know Killa, is how you got it to show the freaking STAR? The best I know how to do is "R*" but yours shows up as a real star.

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Alienange
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:55:46 PM

Come on Jawknee, you're talking like your wife made you throw it away. GTAIV is brilliant. It had great acting and great atmosphere. The city was perfect and the missions were fun. In April of 08, it was the best game around.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:58:01 PM

LOL! My wife could care less. I found the game repugnant and obnoxious. I've never liked GTA. I decided to give GTAIV a try because like this guy, lots of people claimed it to be the "best game evah!"

Sadly, it was a waste of money.

Oh....in my opinion of course. :)

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/24/2010 10:58:51 PM

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:01:04 PM

WorldEndsWithMe im on my Ps3, I use my Ps3 for this website :D
Answers your question? BTW can you still see it? I cant lol must be Ps3 restrictions or something...

Jawknee
I dont know how else to answer your question, how bout you ask Rockstar★? They made the game and well If crime is the theme then oviously crime is glorifying great :D because R★ used it in their Game!!

Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 10/24/2010 11:02:07 PM

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:04:15 PM

The victims of those crimes beg to differ.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:06:43 PM

" In April of 08, it was the best game around. "
-Alienange
EXACLY!

Jawknee
" In my opinion off corse " Closes the case, wouldn't you agree?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:10:15 PM

There was nothing much wrong with GTAIV from a critical standpoint.

If you don't like it, that's a subjective thing. Doesn't stop it from being borderline flawless, like all masterpieces.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:14:11 PM

Agreed, as i said i see why people would like the game from a gaming standpoint but show casing murder, theft, prostitution etc in a positive light is not my thing.

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:53:09 PM

Ben,

From a critical standpoint GTAIV has quite a few negatives. It has one of the weakest engines I've seen this generation. The cover system is broken. The directing/editing of the main story isn't done very well. Though I'll admit I thought the acting was great.

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:56:18 AM

I'm with jawknee...

I played gta4 til the end! Finished it and havnt touched it since. reason being is I finish all my games, doesnt mean I think they are all "the best game ever". It was fun but not great! Never once did I feel immersed. Never once did I feel like I was being pulled in. At least in RDR the immersion was spectacular! They showed te wild west and brought it to our living rooms with a Truly meaningful experience! What did we get from gta4 besides technical prowess? Not much else in my opinion.

But again I played it, had my fun, but didnt take much away from it! That's how all the gta games have been for me just entertaining but nothing special. But I'll be honest vice city was the most fun!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/25/2010 1:00:22 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:59:49 AM

LV: The engine didn't fail nor did it detract from the gameplay experience in over 75 hours of my play time. The cover system worked perfectly, as most any review will tell you.

...I honestly have no idea what you were playing.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/25/2010 1:00:08 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:28:00 AM

I played it on 360 (back when I actually owned one) not sure that matters.

I'm surprised you're sticking up for the engine used in the game. It has severe pop-up and Anti-Aliasing issues. On top of that I think the color scheme is far too gray/grey.

Sure the cover system is better than most games (Dark Void has one of the worst cover systems I've seen in a game) but I don't think it's "perfect" and I don't think GTAIV is the masterpiece it's made out to be.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:40:10 AM

The hand to hand fighting was terrible though, but GTA's usually is, we need a hand to hand combat system that works in GTA.

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___________
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:13:53 AM

perfect?
what about all the bugs, like the swing of death?
last time i checked a game that bores the hell out of you is far from perfect!
sorry, i lost the time line where driving around like a taxi driver for several hours became fun.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:16:28 AM

I wouldn't say that GTAIV is the best game ever, not even close, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still fantastic. The early juvenile actions and scripting later gives way to a far stronger narrative, so that's really nothing to be concerned about.

I wouldn't say that it glorifies crime, as the characters usually show compunction about the tasks that they are asked to perform. It's not about, kill this guy, rape this woman, sell these drugs. That is what keeps the story going, but not what it is about. Sure, it may give us the sense that crime DOES pay, but when you are trying something like GTA, it can't really work in any other fashion.

The engine worked fine. I mean, it did have issues, particularly with pop-in and frame rate, but when you are trying to render a world as large and diverse as Liberty City, that is to be expected. The hand-to-hand combat definitely needs to be improved, but it suffices. The cover system worked perfectly for me. Anytime I got shot while in cover was generally while there was an enemy above me, which makes sense.

It may not have been the most fun, but it was still a grand title, and for me, it only gets better with each playthrough (I've now gone through it thrice). Although, I felt as if the pacing could certainly have been better, and perhaps making us emote with the ancillary characters more, rather that just with Niko. It is possible. Too much text, now I'm scared.
Peace.

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___________
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:51:07 AM

thats the problem it was not as much fun as all the other GTA games.
problem is when you have played 1,2,3, vice city, san andreas, liberty city stories, vice city stories you kinda tend to grow a attachment to a series and expect more of the same.
GTAIV was like a new series, remove the GTA name and you would not even know its a GTA game thats how different it was!

another thing that killed it for me is the stupid friends system.
your set tasks to do, but instead of doing those tasks a friend rings you up and asks to go out, if you dont you loose rep.
ok, so the game tells me to do something, so i do it, so i get punished.
WTF?

same thing thats killing fallout new vegas for me.
you have to complete a objective, to complete said objective but to complete said objective you need to find 3 parts, but to find said parts you need another few things.
its like one task list grows into 50.
just destroys the immersion, your constantly searching around for objects just so you can complete a task than you have to track back and remember ok where was i before i had to find this this and that.
gets really annoying, why could they not separate it into different missions.
send me somewhere, when i get there say congrats mission complete now heres your next.
not give me a bucket half full, than another, than another, than another, than another, than maybe will let you fill the first one up.
fallout 3 had a real sense of progress, you did not feel like a servant and you really felt like your character evolved through the game.
new vegas does not have that.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:14:47 AM

@ Jawk,

"LOL! My wife could care less."

So, let me get this straight. Your wife COULD CARE LESS? She must've been pretty passionate about GTA IV then.

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G8GTdriver
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:16:03 AM

Honestly, I think a GTAIII, GTA:VC and GTA:SA re-released on PS3 would get my money faster than GTA:V would. I would love to see Vice City 2 or at the very least having it redone. Has there been any talk of Rockstar re doing them on the PS3?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:41:03 AM

Orvisman,

I don't think it's fair to assume just because someone has an opinion they're free from the consequence having such an opinion might bring them simply based on the "be nice" rule.

If someone told you that they believed magical blue Unicorns pooped out little eggs from Mars that landed in the ocean and one day hatched human beings would you honestly let it slide and just accept their opinion? Of course not, you would laugh at how ridiculous the idea is and let them know that even though it's their opinion it's laughably absurd.


Oh and in regards to Jawk's comments about his wife and the use of "I could care less". It's pretty standard now that it's a sarcastic line. You see it often in movies and other forms of entertainment. So it isn't a misuse of the word since it's considered a sarcastic comment.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 10/25/2010 8:44:30 AM

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:59:45 AM

@Orvisman
"So, let me get this straight. Your wife COULD CARE LESS? She must've been pretty passionate about GTA IV then."

Alot of people on this site say "Could care less". I hate it every time... It's "COULDN'T care less", people!!!!!!!! As in, there's no way you could possibly care any less than you do now because you really don't care at all..... GAWD.... Jawk... haven't I mentioned this to you before? I'm sure I have.....

As for GTAIV, I just don't get the appeal. I remember when the first couple GTA's came out and people loved them... I thought they were the stupidest games I'd ever seen... I still think GTAIV is dumb. I remember hearing it's graphics were supposed to be unbelievably awesome... didn't agree there...

I dunno, whether it boasts good production qualities or not is irrelevant to me. I think the premise is stupid, the story is even stupider, and what bugs me even more than the fact that the game is NOT believable, is that people actually think it IS believable.

Also, I find nothing fun about the way the game makes light of abuse of women. I work at a youth centre (a lot of street youth with NOTHING. you know... REAL problems), and when I played GTA, they made light of some prostitute and made abusing her "ok". Immediately, a specific client of mine came to mind with that exact situation... It made me sick to my stomach.

I'm not trying to be "high and mighty", but when you see how something like the actions in GTA actually affect people when it happens in REAL LIFE? And you can put a name and face to a 'lighthearted make-believe' scenario? It doesn't typically hold any "appeal". This girl I know is smart, funny, charming, and extremely gifted... but to herself, she's a worthless piece of meat not worthy of ever having a loving relationship... And its due to the stuff GTA thinks is hilarious.

I see no appeal.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:14:56 AM

Drrrr, okay Orvisman. I think you know what I meant. Now take issue with what I said instead of how I said it. And while your at it get that stick out of your rear and lighten up.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:16:37 AM

But Jawk, I'm not done with the stick. ;)

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:37:29 AM

I'm not surprised.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:33:44 PM

I need to use it on your wife first...

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:43:05 PM

And you knew it was his opinion, but you just had to comment on his "stupid" opinion by laughing.

Even though I knew what you meant, I just had to point out the stupidity of your mistake because I felt like it. Why should I let your mistake go unmentioned when you can't let someone have their own opinion without ridiculing them?

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:53:55 PM

@LV,

There is a difference, and you know it. What you're talking about is someone being delusional, and maybe a little eccentric, and in need of some meds.

When you laugh at someone's opinion for being "stupid," you are positioning yourself as having the superior opinion when all you really have is a different opinion. Who knows, but I suspect it is because that person is a bit insecure with himself and his own opinions. That is what an opinion is after all... an opinion, not a fact. There, however, are those around here who think THEIR opinions are fact. There are no stupid opinions, just stupid people.

The lack of respect and rudness among some of the generations that came up after my generation is apalling and makes me sad for the future of our country (the U.S.), as does the borderline illiteracy, which is alive and well on the web, including this site.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:02:40 PM

Thank you for that Orvisman. You just invalidated your whole argument about civility with your pathetic jab at my wife whom you know nothing about and has nothing to do with this conversation. Your lucky this conversation is taking place over the internet.

Thank you for exposing yourself for the hypocritical little weasel you are.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:10:19 PM

Just stooping to your level Jawk... It doesn't feel so good, does it? I think I made my point... especially after your little jab at me when I was trying to lighten the mood by putting a little winky emoticon there. But of course, you had to get a little dig in there, didn't you.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:27:26 PM

@Orvisman
I work at a youth centre, as I've said before, and my job is helping youth 16-29 find employment and education to get ahead in life. I also run the recreational activities at the centre.

And I do not buy that bullcrap about your generation having all the class and the younger generation lacking it. In fact, I have sat on committees where a main topic of conversation is about how we deal with adults discriminating against youth. I've seen elderly, middle aged, and 30's aged people be beyond inappropriate and terribly rude. No generation is immune to being an a-hole, and no generation is better than another. They may all relate to one another differently, but trust me when I say "adults" often need to grow up more than the youth. OFTEN. I have a plethora of examples to support this.

I have an additional problem with comments about illiteracy. I like to prod and poke fun at folks on this site for having improper grammar. Obviously, these people do not have illiteracy issues. But illiteracy is indeed alive and well, so much so that roughly 10-15% of American society is illiterate. The same goes for Canada. In fact, for some people, illiteracy is a disability. TRUE illiteracy. Poor grammar is only inexcusable for the educated. Hense the prodding I do at Jawk. I'm not actually mocking him. I think Jawk's pretty darn cool. (I meant nothing personal when I said it Jawk. lol)

If you ask me, what is sad about the future of America (and Canada) is that the "adults" of society so avidly show disrespect and lack of faith in our youth. Youth today are very relational. All it takes for youth to excel in jobs 90% of the time, is to have an employer that actually cares about them as people. (I have the stats, it's what I do.)

Additionally, employment agencies typically have a 70% success rate. I work with youth 16-29 only. My personal exit success rate is 100% employed or in education or both. Our organization as a whole has the best exit percentage in the province... because youth are freakin' awesome. Adults think they know everything, and as a result, only 70% get jobs even with the help of an employment agency.

Finally, GTAIV is not the best game ever. And it is silly to say so. Now it would be correct to say it is your FAVORITE game, but it is definitely not the BEST game. My favorite game ever is either FF7 or FF8. Neither of them are the best game evaarr, probably. I am smart enough to discern the difference between the "best game ever" (Can there be one? And isn't it always changing? By what does this guy even measure that by?) and my favorite game. Labeling something as "the best game ever" is silly, if you ask me.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:34:25 PM

P.s. please... talk about his mom... tell him you slept with her, like I slept with her... but it's typically public knowledge in the realm of trash talking that picking on a guys wife is pretty damn low. Most places in the world, that will get you a big welt above your left eye... I'm not even a violent guy, but I hope karma gets you a soccer ball in the crotch for that.

P.s.s. Orvisman, I know you don't really mean all you just said, right? Just ticked at Jawk? You don't actually think that lowly of other generations, right??

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/25/2010 2:42:00 PM

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Killa Tequilla
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:42:26 PM

Out of everyone Orvisman definitly is speaking the truth here. You don't have to agree with me, just approach me differently, don`t rub it up my ass. Jawknee....

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:12:19 PM

Except the wife comments, right tequilla?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:21:57 PM

Orvis,

Actually there isn't a difference. If I told you a sh*t sandwich is the greatest sandwich ever made you'd laugh at how idiotic my opinion/statement is. But that is no different than me telling you the best game ever is. Super Mario Bros. 2?

If you're going to say that something/anything is the BEST EVER than you're putting yourself out there for debate and anyone that says such a thing and offers ZERO valid reasoning to support their opinion deserves a lot more than a few laughs from people on this site.

Killa Tequilla,

You were given well over 12hrs and you've since posted several posts but none of them defend your opinion but rather are the typical "play the victim" responses.

Orvis I hope you don't take any of this personal, but I do think you're way off base if you believe anyone is out of line for making fun of someone's beliefs on here if those said beliefs are given with ZERO reasons to support them.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:52:28 PM

Hey guy, I made no personal attack on him nor you until you brought my wife into it. So no your not stooping to my level. You've gone beneath. I thought his opinion was funny, nothing more, but you had to turn this into a poo flinging contest. Also others opinions do matter to me. I disagree with Highlander and WorldEnds on a number of things yet I respect them and their opinions. Just not hypocrites like you. keep pretending to know everything about me if it helps add fuel to your little civility crusade.

@ Killa, lighten up dude. It wasn't personal. Your enthusiasm and blanket statement was just comical to me. I have no idea who you are. I'm sure your a nice guy. Can't get all bent out of shape over comments made by annonymous people on the internet. Unless they're talking about your wife of course. :)

@underdog, I know it wasn't personal. :)

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/25/2010 4:14:25 PM

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:05:39 PM

LV,

No offense. I agree he didn't give any reasons to support his opinion, but neither did Jawk with his response. It just came off as a rather snarky, how stupid are you response. My point being that whether you believe GTA IV is the best game ever is your opinion and you have a right to that without being ridiculed. Queried, yes. Pushed to defend it, yes. Have your toes held to the fire, yes. Being called dumb because of it, nope.

For the record, I don't believe it is.

@Underdog,

I agree. I'm not saying my generation is the last polite generation, and I don't mean to generalize. Of course there are many douchy adults... I know a few of them around the office here. But manners have been decreasing; and, imo, rudness is on the rise among the youth of America. The tweens and teenagers of today, for the most part, are rude, entitled, and self-involved .... imo of course. Of course, there are the exceptions.

But, of course, you have a right to disagree; and I'm not going to laugh at it or say it is stupid even if I might disagree with it in whole, or with just parts of it.

In addition, when I mentioned illiteracy, I wasn't thinking of any one person, just in general. And illiteracy is a pet peeve of mine too. I donate money through my company's matching program to the United Way for illiteracy programs.

Finally,

There is no difference as to whether you attack someone's mom or wife, neither of which I would normally do, because they are equally bad. But to sit there and say it is okay to say you slept with someone's mom but wives are off limit is absurd. If someone spoke bad about either my wife or mom, they'd get a busted nose. I'm sure there are many people here who would bust someone's nose for disrespecting their mothers, as well as their wives.

But I was just trying to illustrate how easy it is to make someone feel bad through a simple throw away line. In hindsight, however, I guess I could've come up with something else.

No offense Jawk, I'm sure your wife is a lovely woman. I hope you know none of this was personal for me. I've just been trying to make a point... maybe an ill-fated one.

I guess it was personal to you, though, because early on in this debate you started attacking me personally.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:31:15 PM

"Lol, if someone says something so absurd, I find nothing wrong in having a chuckle at it, opinion or not. It was funny. Now calm down mom."

"LOL! no one is getting bent out of shape except Orvisman. Please Orvisman, spare me the lectures on relativism. I really don't care what you think of my opinion."

Okay, so those two comments there weren't shots at me? Those two sarcastic comments came before I sunk to your level. Maybe I wasn't using sarcasm like you, but I was wallowing right there in the mud with you.

Then there was my response to you telling me to get the stick out of my ass. Another shot by the way. A shot, however, I was willing to look the other way on. But your narcism couldn't allow you to accept the olive branch could it?

Me: "But Jawk, I'm not done with the stick. ;) "

You: "I'm not surprised"

Anyway, I'm done with this. It was nothing personal Jawk... I just got annoyed with your attitude toward me... I don't tolerate sarcasm and snarkiness well. Like I posted above, I meant no harm to your wife.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:45:19 PM

@Orvisman
I must say this!

Ha yes! Keep donating to United Way! ^.^ They fund where I work! They, and your donations, effectively pay my paycheck! ^.^

Right on, man!

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/25/2010 4:46:18 PM

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 5:03:36 PM

Orvis, it was nothing more than guy to guy trash talk on my end. Nothing personal until you attacked my wife. So apologies if you thought it was more until that point.

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:12:36 PM

I personally don't think GTA4 was worth all this... You guys waisted not only time playing it but all this time arguing about it... Its not worth it in my opinion!

It's a fun game and for 2008 yeah maybe technically it was ok to good at best. Cus it definitely had some issues, which I agree with LV the engine isn't quite great.

but did anyone take anything away from it other than that? if so I'd like to know... Cus I didn't.

Games are meant to be fun that I will stand by forever but to call a game "the greatest ever" needs a little more to back it up...

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Snaaaake
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:17:04 PM

I'm surprised Ben hasn't come out and say ,"Alright this better stop NOW!!"

So peace won't you all?
(FLAME)WAR!! HUH?!! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!

Last edited by Snaaaake on 10/25/2010 7:18:14 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:35:43 PM

Snaaaake,

Actually it's GREAT for entertainment value and I've enjoyed the conversation. If you don't care for it than GTFO, seriously. Don't come into a day old conversation and offer nothing but bullsh*t.

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NoSmokingBandit
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:44:48 PM
Reply

Any game should aim for fun first. It can be as real as it wants but if its not fun nobody will want to play it.

VC was less real than IV but was a lot more fun.

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 10/24/2010 10:48:26 PM

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shadowpal2
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:49:22 PM
Reply

Well to be quite honest just in regular day to day philosophy regarding gaming...isn't gaming meant to be a sort of way of "getting out of the real world?"

You know you come home from a bad day of work - HELL Why not run over 200 pedestrians in your red lamborghini while listening to "Working for the Weekend" by Loverboy? - well hey there's the world of gaming. I mean if we try and make it realistic...well after one person gets run over, everyone will be clear of the streets and just head toward the buildings when the SWAT team will close in on every direction and flatten out your tires and the sniper getting a headshot on you just like that.

Oh c'mon - you wouldn't want it to end that quickly and give a real world setting. And especially with a game like GTA - I believe many of us play it to create our own world.

Maybe I've totally missed it and have got every gamer raising eyebrows - but hey that's what I feel, and that's why I love GTA.

BRING BACK VICE CITY AND THE 80's!

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BikerSaint
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:35:38 PM

shadowpal2

I smash through GTA4's bridge roadblocks all the time, and taking out a few cops stupid enough to stand there shooting at me.
Also during a police chase, I'll often try to ram the left rear quarter panel of their pursuing truck/car using their own police tactical "pit maneuver".
It's a great way to flip & roll some of the bast*rds(use your rear-view mode to watch the somersault action).
I'll also try & hit one of them coming at me at the far left corner of their bumper head-on, then jam it in reverse to spin around a 180, & zoom away till I get out of their zone & can jack another super-speedster.

I've even tried to use my machine pistol to blow out an oncoming cops front tire while I'm trying to escape, but so far,no luck. That's been harder than hell & I keep losing control of my auto & crashing it while trying to get a perfect tire shot off.

And if I get really bored of doing that, I'll start lane-splitting, ramming right through a group of vehicles either on a bridge or in the tunnel & use my rear-view to watch the resulting catastrophe unfolding.

BTW, near my end of playing "The saboteur", I always taunted the Germans into chasing me. Always great fun.

And I'm hoping I can do the same, plus whatever other insane shenanigans I can come up with too, in the new Need for Speed:Hot pursuit once I've gotten it.

But so far. I've never had a game throw out spike-strips against me yet(I hope NFS:HP will have really use them, but I'm sure I could probably swerve slightly out of their way, or at least re-direct my escape route in some way to avoid most of them.
And I'm also hoping NFS will let me steal that police Bugatti V 1.6 from their parking lot.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:01:08 AM

BikerSaint,
The police in GTA:LCS would lay down tyre strips. They were a right pain in the keister too. I could have sworn I ran over a cop trying to do the same in Episodes yesterday.
Peace.

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Kiryu
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:51:52 PM
Reply

Rockstar learn something from the guys who do the Yakuza series.There are so many things to do in yakuza ,mini games are so awesome,120 side missions each different,can go to hostess bars and take out girls.Very good story,ps3 exclusive so graphics are stellar.Seriously more exited for Yakuza 4 then GTA5.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:57:19 PM

Just saw an interesting true life murder mystery where a blonde british woman was working in one of those hostess bars in Tokyo and was kidnapped and taped being killed by a psychotic rich rapist playboy. Just thought I'd share that.

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Kiryu
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:37:07 PM

@worldendswithme
So what's that got to do with Yakuza series or video games?

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:05:09 AM

I think most of the GTA games had a metric shitton of extra stuff to do, especially San Andreas.

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:02:30 AM

LOL World was alluding to the fact that you're post wasn't relevant save for the fact that you said GTA in it.

Anyway I didn't like GTAIV but enough about that. I saw a mudcrab the other day... I made sure to stay away from it. Good thing they're slow and none too bright, though their pincers are sharp............. Be seeing you!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:56:06 PM
Reply

I, for one, am glad the 80's are gone. And the skinny jeans these kids wear are annoying. They don't work for the overweight masses, and they don't work on the spiderlegs skinnies. Very few people can pull off an 80's look.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:02:04 PM

Tell me about it. This dude i know who used to come watch to my bands shows was about 70 pounds over weight and thought he looked great in girl pants.

Wrong!

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/24/2010 11:05:56 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:02:32 PM

Well, I didn't necessarily like the fashion of the '80s (big hair and shoulder pads on women wouldn't do it for me), but it was more about the games, the culture stuff, music, movies, fads that aren't fashion-related, etc.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:04:56 PM

The best things to come out of the 80's was The Cure and Back to the Future.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:09:57 PM

I was not around in the 80s, wasnt even born yet. Did people game in the 80s?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:10:52 PM

'sigh'

Yes, they (I) did.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:41:27 PM

Of course we did. I broke out of the womb looking for a joystick. Some of the older folks even played in the 70's.

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:45:29 PM

Killa Tequilla,

...and again there you go....

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:02:29 AM

Killa Tequila,
All I can say is facepalm. Videogames have been around since the seventies. Even I know that. >.>
Peace.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:08:34 AM

I picked up my first controller in the 80's. Wasn't alive in the 70's though.

@Jawk
You're forgetting about Footloose. Without footloose, how could all the kids reform against contemporary townships to allow themselves to dance?

Kevin Bacon, you saved dancing. Thank you.

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:53:20 AM

Folks the 80's also came with a crap-load of short skirts, high heels, stockings, lingerie as outer-wear and such. Considering that they 70's is known primarily for flares and the 90's was the decade of grunge, I'd have though that we could forgive a few shoulder-pads and drainpipes and just wallow in the mini-skirt wearing, high heeled loveliness of the 80's girl... If you won't, that's fine, I'll handle them myself...

:D

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:29:00 AM

@Underdog, I think Patrick Swayze would take issue with that. ;)

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:39:29 PM

@Jawk
Patrick's dancing was a little dirty, though.

HA!

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ctd669
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:53:45 PM

The cure... Really?!?

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Fane1024
Tuesday, October 26, 2010 @ 6:38:29 PM

Yes. Really.

(Though personally I think there were a few better bands that appeared in the 80s.)

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BTNwarrior
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:56:44 PM
Reply

well considering San Andreas was my favorite gta out of them all and GTA4 was a big let down for a lot of people then I say they should go for fun gta game not realistic gta game. I mean look at driver 3, that is what we get when someone tries to make a realistic GTA game. Fun but not nearly as fun as what was going on in all the GTA3 iterations

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 10:57:57 PM
Reply

Maybe they could have the numbered ones be realistic and then do wild spin-offs.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:09:56 AM

Or maybe, to balance out the genres, they should try harder to cater to the east and create a GTA that is turn based with magic.

That strategy worked the other way around, didn't it?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:00:22 PM

lol

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Alienange
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:04:48 PM
Reply

It's not like I don't enjoy games like Just Cause 2. In fact, I believe JC2, for what it was trying to do, was perfect. Just crazy ass stunts and great action. I do think however, that GTA is not that kind of game.

There have been goofy moments in past GTAs, sure, but not at the expense of telling a realistic story. There's no super heroes, no power jump boots or giant monsters. Just great scenarios that you'd see in just about any good mobster movie. And I think they've struck a chord with their target market.

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FM23
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:10:50 PM
Reply

GTAIV is a much better GTA, but after your done with the game...GTAIV looses its charm unlike San Andreas and Vice City. GTAIV was literally the next gen GTAIII. They should keep the realism during the story then allow us to do crazy sh*t after we beat it. I didn't like the story of San Andreas, but when it comes to sheer value in GTA...this game exceeded expectation, so Rockstar should take that same approach with GTAV. More Cities/areas with thei own culture and plenty of optional side missions that pertain the the overall story. Then when the game is over, give us access to jets, tanks, etc. That was the best part of San Andreas. It was all over the place and GTAIV didn't really have that quality. And yes, Vice City was the best.

Last edited by FM23 on 10/24/2010 11:11:54 PM

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LittleBigMidget
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:41:44 PM
Reply

I think GTA V should do both, like San Andreas. San Andreas was ALOT OF FUN with stuff like stealing cars, doing drive-bys ect. It was also realistic with stuff like exercise, shopping, eating till you puke, all that good stuff.

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, October 24, 2010 @ 11:57:43 PM
Reply

GTAIV was a huge disappointment for me. I blame Rockstar for building up the hype thanks to the impressive SanAndreas.

I didn't identify or care about a majority of the characters in the game nor did I enjoy the reduced variety of gameplay. When the game ended I honestly thought I was only at the halfway point.

I suggest for the next GTA they offer more things to do within the game (after all it's a sandbox game) and don't let the story/direction take a greater role over the gameplay.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 10/24/2010 11:57:55 PM

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:36:42 AM

And don't let the need for "realism" take away from it. Seriously GTAIV is the most overrated game ever. R* got nothing right and was praised for it. I can't even trust reviews for the next one since everyone thought this one was so great.

They took IV and reduced features as opposed to adding like they did with Vice City and San Andreas and people supported this regression. Holy Crap damnit the game should have had parachutes and planes. I'm not buying any of R*'s crappy overpriced dlc, they should have gotten it right to begin with.

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Zorigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:18:08 AM

this is why imo just cause 2 was much better. it was incredibly fun to do the insane amounts of dicking around that you could do.

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Kryptoknight
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:01:30 AM
Reply

R* & Rocksteady should get together and make GTA: Gotham City! For 6stars, you get Batman on your arse, and a platinum trophy for jackin the Batmobile! But seriously, the graphocs will be top notch and that's all the realism I need, I say bring back some of the silliness. As for the setting, I'd go for the crookedest place on Earth - Washington D.C.

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AcHiLLiA
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:18:07 AM

I assume u know the thrill ride superman the escape at Magic Mountain being modified to supermam escape from krypton?

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YashaZz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:51:25 AM

But isn't Yakooza a nice game about the Japanese mafia? I don't think there is need for a GTA: Tokyo.

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AcHiLLiA
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:18:34 AM
Reply

I would like to see them pull off a GTA: Tokyo. Import supped up rides, Asian gangsta and everything.

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:16:02 AM
Reply

GTA has always been a bit of both. GTAIV was still very stylized in its presentation and wasn't uber-realistic, and it certainly didn't remove the silliness of the series, at least I didn't think so. Besides, this kinda stuff happens:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/madpowerbomber/IMAG0069.jpg

It can be both, like always. I'm on the other side of the fence though, I hated the extra amount of game stuff that was put into San Andreas. Too many toys in the sandbox for me. And the story was absolute trash.

What I'd like to see in GTA is a better written story that isn't centered around a revenge motif (most of them have been, it seems), that gets into a meater realm of crime fiction -- maybe something about an undercover police officer getting his hands messy in organized crime? -- and a branching storyline. Branching in that you cannot "fail" a mission, really. If you don't meet the missions goals or parameters, it changes the dramatic dynamic of the characters and plot of the game, rather then just forcing you to try it again. You can make enemies, make friends, and effectively get a more intriguing experience out of it. I'd also like to see more originality out of the guys at Rockstar.

No more copying story elements from crime movies for missions, or any other kind of movie for that matter. No more stealing stuff from Scarface, Terminator 2, Heat, so on and so forth.

...but that's just me...

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FxTales
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:05:23 AM
Reply

I don't know if it's partly to do with it but the same old start out as nothing work your way up structure could be reworked. I don't know if starting out with everything is what I'm getting at. Maybe go for an unconventional character. I don't know.

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___________
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:18:36 AM
Reply

no offense ben but this is the most ridiculous question i have ever heard!
just answer me this.
do you play games for fun, or for "realism"?

games cant be both its as simple as that, your either fun or "realistic".
if a game was for fun than that means we can do things we could not if we were going for realism because there simply not realistic.
you could not hook a car up to a chopper with your wrench and use it as a wrecking ball.
if you crashed your car at 200KMs per hour you would die, wheres the fun in that?
the best part, and i mean the best part about vice city was getting on a motorcycle and flying over those jumps.
if the game was made for realism we would not be able to have that because you would die.
so you want to take out the best part of GTA games?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:36:58 AM

You're going to hate GT5.

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___________
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:42:55 AM

how can i hate GT5?
you mean GTA5?
i enjoy realistic games but only when its suited.
GT is suppose to be realistic, GTA is not.
theres no fun in GTA being realistic its suppose to be a open world action game.
just like if burnout was a racing sim it would be much less enjoyable.
sim suits certain games, certain genres, GTA is not one of those!

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:30:52 AM

"games cant be both its as simple as that, your either fun or "realistic"."

"i enjoy realistic games but only when its suited"

so you enjoy games that aren't fun? I think this is when you admit LV proved you wrong...

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 8:43:01 AM

Thanks for pointing that out lax.


I need to remind myself whenever I feel like replying to noname's comments that it's a complete waste of time and pointless. This is a perfect example of why.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:14:21 AM

I used to make a daily visit to the failblog website. Now I come to PSXE, scroll down, and read the anonymous cowpatty's comments. Always good for a chuckle and good ol' fashioned eye rolling.

EDIT: I'm kidding about the failblog part, but I'm literally not kidding about enjoying his comments for a chuckle. Seriously... he very occasionally says something I agree with... I hate those days.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/25/2010 9:15:30 AM

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:11:43 PM

Is this guy ever positive?

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:00:57 PM

No problem LV ;)

@Orvisman
Sarcasm and having a more critical PoV doesn't imply negativity. In fact I interpret his original response to convey to you that you are going to be disappointed with GT5 because it boasts both realism and fun (though that remains to be seen I guess since it hasn't released yet, but a bet I'd be willing to make)

Clearly in that post there he has a pretty positive outlook for GT5, so he can indeed be positive.

LimitedVertigo, while most of the time voicing an opinion not consistent with what the majority thinks (not saying there is anything wrong with being part of the majority), he also adds more insightful comments than most users do. I believe his PoV is one of the most important ones on the sight as without diverging opinions, there wouldn't be nearly as much discussion IMO.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:13:43 PM

Unless it's so far out in left field that there's nothing to discuss except by saying... "huh?"

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:35:28 PM

Are you guys trying to throw gay on me? I might catch it but I doubt I'll throw it back........

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Beamboom
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:20:45 PM

Actually I agree with what Noname says in that some games are supposed to be realistic (gt5) while others are not (gta).
Gta should return to it's roots.

Last edited by Beamboom on 10/25/2010 4:21:32 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:30:41 PM

Beamboom,

Um he goes on to state that a game can't be both. So using his flawed logic GT5 will be one of the most boring, non-entertaining games ever released.

But ya, if you want to be wrong too go ahead and agree with him.

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Orvisman
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:34:23 PM

laxpro,

Sorry, I wasn't referring to this post specifically. I meant is he ever positive in a general sense? 9/10 of his comments just seem to be negative.

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laxpro2001
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 5:17:10 PM

@Orvisman, Negative or not, I STILL LOVE HIM!

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___________
Tuesday, October 26, 2010 @ 7:43:37 AM

why do i bother?
every time i try to explain myself it goes through one ear and out the other!
i explained why i dont want GTA to be a "sim" because its not suppose to be realistic, if it was you would not be able to do the things that make it so much fun like the crazy jumps.
GT is different, im a car enthusiast i really enjoy taking cars out to the track and racing around.
just because you dont want a game in a genre to be a sim does not mean you wont enjoy other games in other genres as a sim.
god i feel like im talking to a bunch of 3 year olds at times, can not get through to them!

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 26, 2010 @ 9:39:58 AM

It's typically easier to get a point across when you don't contradict yourself. I would love to understand what you're saying, but when you say things like games can't be both realistic and fun, then say you love Gran Turismo because of how fun it is, it can be tough to follow you.

Simply put, you said games cant be both real and fun, then you said GT5 is both real and fun.

It's not a big deal, man, but seriously, you can be really hard to follow when your thoughts are neither connecting nor consistent. You can hardly call people infantile for that.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/26/2010 9:40:58 AM

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___________
Wednesday, October 27, 2010 @ 6:58:39 AM

jesus christ dont be so bloody anal you get the point!

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Underdog15
Wednesday, October 27, 2010 @ 9:12:01 AM

It's not being anal. And don't curse like that. Have some respect.

It's hardly being anal for misinterpreting what you mean. If you say one thing and mean another, you have to expect to be misunderstood.

Maybe instead of getting mad at everyone for not understanding you, you should consider reforming the way you relay information. A normal person would have recognized this, and instead of insulting everyone else, would have said, something like "sorry, that's not what I meant. What I meant to say was...." and on you go to clarify.

You can't seriously place blame on other people for that. I'm not being anal. I merely tried to explain to you why people didn't understand you. It's certainly not anything worth getting defensive about.

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Kryptoknight
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:40:57 AM
Reply

I wouldn't mind it being in another part of the world either, but how'bout this: they've gone to the past with Vice City and Red Dead, what about going to the future and do a Blade Runner style GTA. Create new settings, vehicles, weapons, etc.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 3:04:43 AM

That would be really cool. Now I want to see that more than almost anything else. Make it happen. Just imagine the weapons... Now I'm kind of picturing Deus Ex: Human Revolution being something like this for some random reason.
Peace.

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FatherSun
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:04:23 AM

That is not a bad idea at all. Maybe they can freeze someone from this time cryrogenically and unfreeze in a future time where crime is almost sterile and the protagonist/antagonist wreaks absolute havok as the public is astonished and begins a rash of copycat crimes. Im just saying.

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Jalex
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:43:04 AM
Reply

Personally, I hope they go further in 'IV's direction for the next one.
'The Lost And Damned' and 'The Ballad of Gay Tony' really worried me, because they were so far removed from Niko's saga, and seemed to be pandering to the players who wanted more inaneness instead of the grittier persepective 'IV' provided.
But now my hope is that the huge success of 'Red Dead Redemption' (especially in comparison to 'Grand Theft Auto IV's 'Episodes') will persuade Rockstar North to take the next 'GTA' further in such a direction.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 2:55:07 AM
Reply

I see no reason why GTA: Capital City shouldn't be able to do both. Obviously, telling a more realistic story sort of necessitates less mission action, but what if they were to go and have mission where you jump out of a plane, or more on-rails shooter mission like what we saw in TLatD. I think that the Episodes struck a near perfect balance between realism and fun. It's just, I think, increasing the variety of things you have to do during the missions, and making it fun to continue to do them outside of progressing the story.

I think that it would also do them well to expand the clothing system, and having certain characters not interact with you unless you are wearing certain types of clothing.

BUT, a convincing story is paramount. Continue the formula of the stories, but give us something new to chew on at the same time. AAGH! The next GTA could be the killer app of this generation, but at the same time it could bomb miserably. I want to see them get it right, but I don't know the correct path for them to take.
Peace.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 10/25/2010 2:58:37 AM

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SubjectiveTruth
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 5:37:09 AM
Reply

Vice City 2 all the way. Vice City was a better "Scarface" game than the actual Scarface game was. Remember killing the guy an getting that huge mansion, that made you really feel like you made it to the top and you were a rich gang boss with a lambo in his driveway.

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telly
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:38:55 AM

Vice City was better than the movie Scarface, too! ;)

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CrazyIrishBoy
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:34:45 AM
Reply

How a bout a realistic game with the old fun factor it used to have :D

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naruto316
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:42:08 AM
Reply

gta 4 was a great game as the sales confirm. but for me i have not felt like i have played a GTA game since GTA 3 that was the only one that i truly loved to play and had hrs of fun doing it. and i admit that the main reason for it was the cheat codes. the best one being the perfect handling code that way i could just drive a awesome car without having to be a nascar driver like i had to in gta 4. this is all in my own opinion but that is what made GTA 3 such a fun game and i am not a fan of a game where everything has to be so damn real to real life i mean games are meant to be fun and to help get our minds off the real world for a couple of hrs.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:05:20 AM

Sales doesn't always equate to greatness. Mediocrity tends to outsell what's truely great a majority of the time. Not saying GTAIV was mediocre. Just pointing out sales doesnt always mean something is great.

I'll use Highlanders example, tons of people eat at McDonalds more and less so at Ruth Chris. We obviously know which is better and which gets more sales.

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:28:50 AM

Hey Jawknee, thanks for the mention, I'm gratified that you remembered that analogy. More than ever I stand by it. We see many high quality games selling comparatively few copies when other games that are arguably lower quality (not necessarily in terms of graphics) sell boat loads.

Just like fine dining sells fewer meals compared to McDonalds, not everyone appreciates the fine dining food or experience. Personally, I'm not fond of haute cuisine, and would rather eat at Chic-fil-a. But I'd happily eat at Ruth's Chris instead of McDonalds. Obviously there are different tastes as well as different standards of quality.

However, I have no idea how to compare the GTA games from GTAIII onwards, they are simply not my kind of game, so fine dining or not, I'll be going elsewhere...

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Jawknee
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:33:07 AM

Mmmmmm, Chick-fil-a I know what in eating for lunch now. Thanks Highlander! ;)

And yes. Too many great games fall to the wayside while mediocrity thrives. That's how it seems to be with all forms of entertainment. Movies, music etc. Games is no exception.

I couldn't say whether or not GTA is mediocre as I have never finished a GTA game. I do know what the series did for gaming. It brought us open world games. I do however agree with Underdog. I never found the premise of GTA games fun. Pimps, hookers and a life of crime are not fun to me.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/25/2010 10:36:26 AM

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cowboynwo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:47:40 AM
Reply

i would say it should strive for both

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Maiq The Liar
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 6:48:53 AM
Reply

100% FUN FACTOR!

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TheOldOne
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:41:10 AM
Reply

Fun Factor++
A good example is GTA IV vs Fallout 3. GTA IV > Fallout 3 in realism but Fallout 3 > GTA IV in fun factor. I played Fallout 3 twice from start to finish. I did it because trophies were added later on. Trophy support were also added later on GTA IV, but that was not enough for me to play the GTA IV two times (so I didn't).

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Deathb4Dishonor
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 7:48:06 AM
Reply

i'd be happy if they make a San Andreas 2 or a Vice City 2 with the new graphics engine they have... Now that's a masterpeice waiting to come to life

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Zorigo
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:16:31 AM
Reply

fun. i dont know many people that go on about gta for realism. i do however hear "gta" and "blow sh*t up" in the same sentence a lot.

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RebelJD
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 9:47:37 AM
Reply

GTAV should be fun. It's what made the series such a great success. Vice City is also my favorite title of them all and a new addition to that decade would be awesome.

There's a reason why a lot of gamers enjoyed Ballad of Gay Tony more than GTAIV itself, as well as the other extension.

The World we play in has to be a World we'd like to stay in. That's my advice.

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Amazingskillz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:08:46 AM
Reply

I dont care what they do as long as they fix the camera. It is extremely difficult to truly enjoy the game because you have to fight the camera too much! The camera basically moves by itself. You have to hold it in one direction or else it will start bouncing back like a rubber band. I could enjoy TBOGTony that much because you have to fight the damn camera so much. Its a major flaw in my opinion. If they fix that, I'll be happy with anything else.

Last edited by Amazingskillz on 10/25/2010 10:09:10 AM

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:21:38 AM
Reply

You know what's funny? No one has mentioned the origins of the game. The original GTA games were top down arcade games with over the top everything. they were defines by huge city maps, crazy missions, mowing down pedestrians and jacking cars. But it was a top down arcade game with graphics that were most definitely arcade. It morphed out of this into the 3D violence we have today with GTA III.

Personally I miss the old GTA. It was just as crazy violent, but it did it arcade style. The In-game radio played some classic tunes and the game was just plain fun, nothing else. realism was completely absent, as it really should be in a *game*.

Now, I know that we're never going back to that kind of game (a shame really), so I won't be very likely to play the new installment. But, personally, I think that as games become more graphically sophisticated and 'real', game designers have to make a choice. They need to choose between realistic depictions, and being a game. Heavy Rain went the realistic direction. It became a very interesting bridge of interactive video game technology and film noir. That worked, but then it didn't feature the player running around and randomly shooting people.

With graphics that are essentially realistic, I think we need to re-focus on the fact that these are video *games*. They need to feel, look, sound and play like games. Either that or the route to realism must be taken in full, including doing away with the over the top, ridiculous nature of some of the things in GTA.

I really miss the time when a video game was just that, a game. Now games are fewer ad further between. Some of the so called video games today, are actually more accurately simulators. The military could use any of the military themed, 1st person squad based shooters as training aids. With Move and 3D integration, that becomes more and more true. With the addition of move and 3D, the level of immersion in the action increases, and as that immersion increases, the similarity between games and training aids starts to vanish.

Games like GTA which feature those realistic 3D environments may not fall into that same category as those military themed shooters. But with the additional immersion with Move and 3D, and more realistic graphics, you kind of have to look at them a little differently. The fact is that there is very little difference between an accurately simulated real environment, and a realistically simulated, but fictional environment. It's not so much the violence, although that does IMHO become an issue with such realistic and immersive products. It's more about the state of mind and what that mind is effectively training itself (consciously or unconsiously) to do and how to react.

Of course they're games, but come on, we all know, at the back of our heads, that with regard to training for anything in life, the more immersive and involved we are with that experience, the more we learn and condition ourselves to deal with what we are being trained in. Well, as the games become more realistic and less game like, and the level of immersion and involvement grows - with advancing technology like 3D photo-real rendering and 3D motion control systems - don't we have to ask a question at some point? When does it stop being a game?

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, or a member of one of those stupid, uber-conservative (small 'c') parenting groups that thinks all games should be like My Little Pony. But I am a very level headed, realistic, logical person with legitimate concerns about the future of gaming as the technology becomes so advanced that it is possible to use the same technology to very inexpensively create accurate training simulations that formerly would have cost organizations millions.

So, back to the question. I want my games to be games. I want there to be no doubt that it's a game. Super realistic graphics are all fine and well, but it's a video game. When I'm playing Soul Calibur, I don't worry about the unrealistic environments, or combat or the fact that the physique of half the characters (male and female) is utterly unrealistic. That's all part of what makes it a game. Frankly, Sophitia, Ivy, Taki and their friends would not be as much fun to watch or play if they had realistic figures, wore realistic costumes, and moved in realistic ways. I always thought that video games were about suspending disbelief an escaping the real into the game.

Grand Theft Auto needs to reclaim it's video *game* qualities, and let over the top style and fun trump realism.

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telly
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:34:02 AM

That's pretty much a perfect encapsulation of my feelings on video games right there. Realism, in GTA or any other "game," can take the fun right out of it. To point to one of countless examples, it's why I liked Resistance 2 more than Killzone 2. The latter's graphics were insanely great, but the whole experience did too good a job at convincing me I was a miserable soldier fighting WW2 in space. KZ2 was Saving Private Ryan, while R2 was a B movie. Not surprisingly, I found R2 to be a lot more fun for that reason.

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:34:57 AM

Among the various typos in my post there is one mistake I need to correct...

I said;
"With the addition of move and 3D, the level of immersion in the action increases, and as that immersion increases, the similarity between games and training aids starts to vanish."

It really ought to read;
"With the addition of move and 3D, the level of immersion in the action increases. As that immersion increases, the differences between games and training aids start to vanish."

I had two thoughts at the same time and the words got blended. Basically I was talking about the similarity of interactive training systems to highly immersive games in 3D with Move controls. I was pointing out that as the game technology advances, the differences between the two disappear, and it's hard to distinguish between them.

@telly,

Indeed, games need to be games, they need to be fun, it's kind of their point.

Last edited by Highlander on 10/25/2010 10:36:20 AM

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Amazingskillz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:22:31 AM
Reply

I live in Miami. Please believe that a modern day Vice City opposed to the early 1980's theme would be insane. Especially with new graphics! I think that would smash Modern Warfare 2 sales records.

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Amazingskillz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:22:35 AM
Reply

I live in Miami. Please believe that a modern day Vice City opposed to the early 1980's theme would be insane. Especially with new graphics! I think that would smash Modern Warfare 2 sales records.

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telly
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:24:59 AM
Reply

Love GTA IV, but honestly, realism's overrated. I think San Andreas and Vice City got it exactly right. There were "serious" stories at each game's core, but a lot of fun, over the top missions that kept the mood from getting too dark and heavy.

Ultimately, as I've posted before, I like that Rockstar doesn't just make the same game over and over again with new graphics and a new city. Each game has been quite distinct, and great in its own way. I have all the faith in the world the next one will be awesome as well, whether serious or not.

Do hope we go back to San Andreas or Vice City, tho ;)

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Beamboom
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:05:42 PM

This post sums up pretty much my opinions exactly.

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DeathOfChaos
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:29:17 AM
Reply

As sad as it may sound, I kind of like having an ultra real feeling game and being able to do what you can do with GTA4. Let's compare it to Mafia 2; I love that it's a realistic time capsule to the 1950's and all, and it's fun taking over a gas station and starting a gun fight with the police in that golden age type of setting. You wanna know something I actually wished was doable in that game? Jumping out of your car at high speeds. That's what I liked about the newer GTA titles. I dunno why, but it's just so hilarious to go 80-100mph on the freeway and then jump out of my car, and hopefully dying on impact when hitting another car (with my body) while their going probably 60mph. I don't want to do that in real life, I'll die! But in GTA, they have some pretty sweet hospitals, so great in fact that when I kill someone on GTA I just think about those hospitals ;) lol. I don't even play GTA games for the story, the stories are boring to me. I love killing myself and others, it's pretty much all that games serves for me, lol.

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:37:57 AM

Um...OK.

Therapy is great option...

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SolidFantasy
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 1:15:48 PM

I feel the same way as Death on this one. The chaotic option of GTA is what made the game so special. Where else are you going to try that crazy crap out in real life and live to laugh at it?

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Amazingskillz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 10:46:36 AM
Reply

@ Highlander - For the most part I often agree with your technical as well as analytical perspectives. However, there is one perspective that I don't understand and just couldn't disagree with you more on. Your stance that less realism is somehow better in a video game is absolutely ludicrous to me. For kids no, but for adults a game should have full throttle realism in my opinion. Basically I want my Playstation experience to flat out evolve into the freakin Matrix! To me realism is the single thing to look forward to in a video game. I don't understand where you're coming from with the "games shouldn't be too real concept". No disrespect intended of course.

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Highlander
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:56:38 AM

It's all a matter of opinion on all sides of the discussion. I think though that with your statement about wanting the PlayStation experience to evolve into something Matrix-like, you're leaning towards what I was saying. To me the Matrix is not defined by Neo's life before he's extracted. The Matrix is defined by the very unreal, stylized action that happens when Neo returns to the Matrix fully aware of what is going on and has the ability to manipulate the environment to defy ordinary physical laws, even to the extent of slowing time - bullet-time. To me, that makes the Matrix more *game* than reality. But it's definitely a thing dividing line, and every one will be comfortable with a different divide between the two.

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phudge_supreemz
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 11:32:19 AM
Reply

go with realism. leave the fun for saints row

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Benzin
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 12:49:50 PM
Reply

Who said real couldn't be fun?

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thj_1980
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 4:50:45 PM
Reply

Rockstar needs to consider a better frame rate for this game. This will be a master piece without many cuts and tears in the screen. Rockstar needs a better ps3 development team working to get smooth gameplay. I masterpiece story cannot be enjoyed with a bad laggy framerate. This is all I ask! Whatever they come up with I do not care as all gta stories are great just work on the technical issues that is all.

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LightShow
Monday, October 25, 2010 @ 5:57:58 PM
Reply

its not a game if it isnt fun.

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SonyPuppy
Saturday, October 30, 2010 @ 11:04:24 PM
Reply

I think they should strive for realism in the numbered installments and give us some cartoony ones with the longer names like Vice City and San Andreas. I didn't much like GTA4 but loved the earlier releases so I'd hate to have to play through a full GTA4 style game in order to unlock the stuff I'm really after.

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SonyPuppy
Saturday, October 30, 2010 @ 11:08:20 PM
Reply

I think they should strive for realism in the numbered installments and give us some cartoony ones with the longer names like Vice City and San Andreas. I didn't much like GTA4 but loved the earlier releases so I'd hate to have to play through a full GTA4 style game in order to unlock the stuff I'm really after.

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BigM0E
Sunday, October 31, 2010 @ 9:37:43 PM
Reply

i think GTAIV was BADASS! the ONLY thing i didnt like was they took out the car mods(hydraulics n rims)n body mods(workin out n hair cuts). i wish they will put that back in!!! other than that i think the realism was and is COOL. cant wait for a GTAV

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Man10
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 @ 6:19:12 AM
Reply

what i want is that gtaV is like gtaIV, with better graphics, longer story, more vehicles (planes) and realistic. realist is good, that's what gta games should look like, a realistic game. maybe they should do the story in china now, because it was always in america or in europe. more nudity too.

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