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PlayStation 3 Can't Handle Yamauchi's Lofty Ambitions

All indications are that Gran Turismo 5 will indeed make it for the holidays, and most are expecting a technical tour de force.

It has been a staple of the franchise: cutting-edge graphics and overall technical composition that pushes the boundaries of the hardware. And although one might assume the PlayStation 3 has enough power to satisfy Polyphony Digital's needs, it appears boss man Kazunori Yamauchi's ambitions know no bounds. Speaking to Esquire UK and as summarized at CVG, the GT creator says quite frankly that even with the potential of Sony's machine, "it's still not enough:"

"Software has to be created under the restriction of the hardware. With each new PlayStation, the vessel has become bigger, but it's still not enough. With Gran Turismo 5 we've made it as clean and beautiful as possible within the confines of the space we're given - but of course there's a lot more that we want to put in."

Oh, "of course." We should've known. We're willing to bet that if we ask Hideo Kojima about MGS4, he'll say he wanted to "do more" and that he always feels restricted by a system's power. That's the mark of a true visionary: one who always wants to excel; to reach the next level; to see beyond the current limitations in any industry or venue. It sort of implies that GT5 will be just what we expect it to be: masterful.

Related Game(s): Gran Turismo 5

Tags: gt5, gran turismo 5, ps3, playstation 3

11/9/2010 3:17:40 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (59 posts)

ace_boon_coon
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:36:05 PM
Reply

and they say japanese developers have fallen off. GT5 and MGS5 put other games to shame.

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shadowpal2
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 7:04:41 PM

Do you mean MGS5? or MGS4? If MGS5 are you speaking of Peace Walker or Rising? If Peace Walker, well hey you're damn right...though - that isn't for PS3. If Rising...well we aren't sure of how that will be yet.

MGS4 was certainly one of those games that gave the kick start to the PS3 as the most capable system out there. Though Kojima sama himself stated that there was more he wanted to do graphic wise with MGS4.

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ace_boon_coon
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 7:42:34 PM

lol sorry i meant MGS4.

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Akuma07
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 3:26:57 AM

i bet MGS5 will put all other games to shame though xD

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B-RadGfromOV
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 4:41:37 PM

Nah, cause they'll put it on other- inferior- consoles. I mean, I hope they don't, but it seems like that may be the way it is.

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LittleBigMidget
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:36:14 PM
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I'm sure the 360 would give him much more space and room to work with.

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maxpontiac
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:37:35 PM

Obvious sarcasm.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:48:07 PM

I can bet some people will run with that theory though... Or somehow make this bad news against the PS3...

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Qubex
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 9:27:00 PM

From a media storage perspective, you are correct, but if space on current media storage was not an issue, the 360, if programmed for specifically and optimised for, would perform equally well.

It's (360) GPU has a "slight" edge over the RSX, this is a well known fact amongst the development community, however the PS3 can actually do more when optimised for under peak stress.... thanks to the parallelism of the mighty Cell and its PPE/SPU architecture...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 11/9/2010 9:30:09 PM

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Highlander
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:11:31 PM

Qubex, don't forget that GT5 runs at 1080p. I don't remember any games on 360 that run at 1080p. Some output at that resolution, but it's hardware scaled from 720p instead of actually rendering at 1080p. GT5 renders at 1080p on the PS3. Despite the advantages that the 360s GPU has in some areas, in raw compute terms, the nVidia chip is still a tad faster. But, it lacks some crucial hardware elements that the 360's GPU has, so in most cases the 360 makes things easier. I don't think that the 360 could render the resolution and quality that GT5 runs at. I think there is too much work being done by the SPEs on the Cell for the 360's hardware to keep up.

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Shadow_Ninja
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:31:10 AM

GT5 and what else is rendered in full 1080p. Wipeout HD? those are racing games that really only display an abundance of cars on screen and a track. some of PS3's best games are only rendered at 720p like uncharted 1 & 2, and killzone 2 is rendered at 640p and then upscaled to 720p. so in terms of graphics, i agree with Qubex that the xbox does have the slight edge.

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:07:37 AM

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is in 1080p

There are plenty of sub-HD 360 games that use that magical slightly less than 600p resolution that allows free FSAA.

Go back and re-read what I said. The 360's GPU has several advantages over the RSX. The thing is that the Cell BE obliterates the tri-core PPC in pure performance terms. There's no argument to be had there at all. If a developer leverages the SPEs on the CellBE, it's possible to do things on the PS3 that can't be done on the 360.

90+% of the games that run at sub HD resolution on the PS3 are multi-platform ports from the 360 where many of them already were running below 720p. The fact that games ported to the PS3 run less well than the original development platform is not entirely surprising. Of course you could look at FFXIII as a game that went in the other direction. The 360 version is markedly lower quality both in game play and especially cut-scene playback.

A properly written game on the PS3 can match a properly written game on the 360. Of course they are such different systems that the route to the same performance is different on each system.

But as I pointed out, there are no significant games on the 360 that are rendered at 1080p. If you want to argue the point, there are plenty of examples of sub HD games on both consoles, and a legion of inferior ports that lost a little resolution during translation from 360 to PS3. Bad ports and poorly optimized, generic graphics engines do not give any indication of how powerful the platform they run on is.

Now, as I said, the 360's GPU has some advantages. These are principally advantages in terms of exposing functionality to the programmer making it easier for the programmer to use certain functions. This speeds development and drops the bar in terms of the difficulty of creating high quality visuals on the platform. The PS3 does not do this, there is a high degree of performance, but it's not exposed so directly to the programmer. The result is that the game engine depends more on the ability of the developer which means that things take more effort and time on the SP3 to produce similar results. The plus side of that is that there is more freedom to decide how to do something, and more room for optimization since you have ti implement many more functions in your own code.

But we've already seen the proof that the PS3 can outshine the 360 in games such as Uncharted 1 & 2. In general though not everyone has the time and resources of Naughty Dog, so most developers do not polish their engines to the same degree.

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Shadow_Ninja
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:44:23 AM

i really wasn't looking at arguments. i was looking at facts. the fact the Qubex stated the Xbox's GPU has a slight edge over the PS3's GPU. that's an actual fact that even you (highlander) stated. something else you have stated is that the Cell BE obliterates the tri-core PPC, there's really no "argument" there either. saying that, PS3 games that outshine the Xbox are games that utilize the Cell to help render graphics along with the Cell's i guess you can say original tasks, like audio, AI, geometry, it's preserved SPU for the XMB, etc.

"Bad ports and poorly optimized, generic graphics engines do not give any indication of how powerful the platform they run on is."

i don't know if you misinterpreted my comment. but i never said the xbox was better overall console just because it has a better GPU than the PS3. i had just agreed, the GPU is better.

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maxpontiac
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:37:07 PM
Reply

I am glad a developer has finally admitted it.

The PS3 isn't the end all solution to gaming, and I look forward to seeing what PD was capable of doing.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:53:35 PM

I think theirs a distinct difference to right now and 5 years from now... Right now the ps3 is the answer theirs mo question bout that... As time goes on though it's apparent that the industry should only create hardware that's better... If that's not the case then new hardware is pointless! Leaving the PS3 the only choice for a game like GT5 as an example...

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Nynja
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:38:32 PM
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I'm still blown away by the night racing in the rain. Unbelievable. I can't wait to see this on the HDTV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yWpZpsmBaQ

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Oxvial
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:49:05 PM
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Okay hope they don't blame the Ps3 if the game ends sucking like GT psp.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:54:42 PM

Gt psp was fine lol...

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 11/9/2010 3:55:02 PM

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Highlander
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:30:51 PM

The only thing that hurt GT on the PSP was the lack of a career mode.

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Victor321
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:58:07 PM

And the "restrictions of the hardware" =P

See what I did there ^.^?

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Oxvial
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 5:06:09 PM

You beat me Victor.

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BTNwarrior
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:54:19 PM
Reply

so gt6 will be like gt4 in respects that it will have no real graphic improvements over the last game yet it will have tons of new cars, racing modes, and other content. I can live with that

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:20:01 PM

There were other features in GT4 such as, but not limited to: better physics, a TON of new race tracks, a 60+ soundtrack, a more refined rally experience, a more detailed formula 1 campaign, etc. It was a more refined, packed sequel. I think you didn't play GT3 or didn't look beyond the graphics?

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jlch777
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 6:16:23 PM

GT3 output resolution was 480i and GT4 480i,480p and 1080i, so there are always space for graphic improvements :)

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jlch777
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 6:32:19 PM


edit\ ...there is always room for graphics..


sorry\

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:08:55 AM

GT4 was awesome. It managed to drag my ancient PS2 phat up to modern 480p/1080i standards.

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BTNwarrior
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:13:18 AM

@scarecrow, you just reiterated what I just said. GT4 changed alot of things, but it did not change the graphics (much) because they had already pumped out almost all of the ps2's juice with the third game. So they improved everything else instead of focusing on the graphics because they didn't need to focus on the graphics. I'm not saying that 4 was bad or that 3 was bad or anything like that.

And I spent quite some time on GT3 and 4 so please be kind and make sure you understand the context that I am writing in before you make accusations

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:26:26 AM

BTN, I disagree. The graphics in GT4 were much better than those in GT3. Not to mention that GT4 had the entire Nürburgring Nordschleife course for us to play with. Stretching the capability of the PS2 in order to output at 1080i is no slight achievement, and the graphics engine behind that was far more advanced than the one in GT3.

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IrreducibleSUN
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 3:59:16 PM
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I think the point here is that a developer (Polyphony Digital) has pushed the PS3 to it's limits and that in itself is an achievement. Quality.

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Alienange
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:00:31 PM
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"as clean and beautiful as possible within the confines of the space we're given"

Why are there devs constantly claiming to have maxed out the PS3? Is the PS3 to blame then when the fans see screen tearing and experience long load times?

He should just say what's really going on. If they put everything in the game that they wanted to, there'd never be a game.

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:21:13 PM

You clearly don't have the mind of a perfectionist

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Kiri
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:07:37 PM
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I beginning to believe that he wants to make a game that's better than life...

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ace_boon_coon
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:10:34 PM

he's like most perfectionist, they feel what they have can always be better. they always have ways to make their art better, and i always comes out superb.

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:22:24 PM

I'd love to be an employee at PD.

Kazunori is like the nicest and most thoughtful dev I have ever seen. Yes even better than Kojima imo.

Last edited by Scarecrow on 11/9/2010 4:22:39 PM

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ace_boon_coon
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:23:35 PM

it always comes out superb.

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:23:27 PM
Reply

Yup, I think PD's eager to get their hands on the ps4 dev kit.

I hope their inputs as to what they want on the ps4 were heavily considered by SCEJ/SCEI.

Last edited by Scarecrow on 11/9/2010 4:23:53 PM

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RobiinzZ
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:30:41 PM
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GT6 for Ps4 launch, now that would be a quite something.

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NoOneSpecial
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:31:14 PM
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Well, I know we won't be disapointed. I honestly cannot wait much longer but my longing to play has stopped me from going insane......

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city96
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:33:36 PM
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I hope PD get to tell SONY how powerful the PS4 should be so they can release GT6 right on launch day. That is a perfect Dream.

I think Kaz is kinda going a bit overboard, considering the realism and critical acclaim the series has so far, he could have just released the game ages ago and it would have sold loads. His work is better and more defined than most other devs so his 50% = 200% of Turn10's

Turn10 seems like a joke of a dev, they try to add a "twist" of some sort to simulation, if they mean unrealistic then, yeah they did it. lol

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NoOneSpecial
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 5:06:27 PM

True That

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main_event05
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:48:08 PM
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This is the news i like to hear

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 4:58:54 PM
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Isn't that obvious when he is a perfectionist?

Well Kojima already said that PS3's power wasn't enough for what he wanted.
I remember watching an XPlay interview, he said the final production of MGS4 wasn't what he had in mind in the first place.

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FatherSun
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 5:23:59 PM
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Yamauchis ambitions are welcome. He is a developer that will always push the envelope. I can't imagine what else he will come up with. Motorcycles? I just had a few runs on GT5 at the Playstation Lounge. Amazing. It is worth the wait. They will not give a release DATE!

Killzone 3! Superb. Can't wait till it its completed.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 5:56:20 PM
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expect GT6 to be in development for over a decade.

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FatherSun
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 6:22:14 PM

Hope not. I hope he will be able to build upon GT5 assets and get it to us sooner. Like everyone said. Release with PS4.

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Shams
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 6:28:23 PM
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Kaz should tell Sony what would be enough, then Sony should make the ps4. And i'd have no qualms if he then chose to release GT6 on that instead.

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Temjin001
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 7:16:59 PM
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I know this is a stretch, but I wonder if CoD has anything to do with the delay of the US release of GT5. I know they're different markets, but I'd imagine most gamers play more than one type of game (I'm one of them). Perhaps Sony doesn't want to curtail potential revenue by releasing GT5 too close to Black Ops. They're both heavy hitting, multi-million selling franchises and I would imagine Sony wouldn't want to share GT5's spotlight with anyone during it's launch window.
And btw, I'm sure Sony wants CoD to sell as much as possible, too. They do make money, even if it's 3rd party. And with a game that'll probably rake in at least 7million+ copies PS3 side, it's a cash cow they want un-fettered.

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FatherSun
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 7:39:40 PM

I considered this scenario as well. I also think the Move may have played its part as well.

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swapnilgyani
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 8:31:28 PM
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This is definately good news. I'm sure some bots will reading this and going "PS3 is de limited power lolzzzzz", but most sane minds would know what the comment means.

Of course, we all know what a great developer Yamauchi is, and that's why totally believe it when he says he's pushed this powerhouse to its limit. I wonder how we would have reacted if this statement came from our dear Bobby, Wada or Captain Obvious.

Please keep pushing the system to its limits with your every production. I'm totally okay with the idea of 1 Gran Turismo per generation.

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playSTATION
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 9:55:36 PM
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can't wait for Naughty Dog to push the ps3 power even more.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:00:00 PM
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Man, I'd love to know what Yamauchi's already thinking of implementing into GT if Sony's conceptional Playstation 9(done at the beginning of the PS 2's days) ever bears fruition.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcmtDAVM-3A


Last edited by BikerSaint on 11/9/2010 10:02:52 PM

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___________
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:35:57 AM
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all due respect dude, but you could be given a computer with intels new I9 processor, quad 580GTXs, SSDs, 12GBs DDR3 crossfire RAM, and HVD as a storage medium and you would still be complaining!
this guy really needs to learn how to say "its good enough" hell if it was up to him we would still be waiting for the first GT, let alone GT5!
o, wait that cars a little to square send it back we need to fix it.
o, wait the road is a little too dark we need to fix that too.
GOD, JUST RELEASE THE DAM THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hope he realizes by delaying it there only shooting themselves in the foot!
the more time they work on it, the higher the expectations are going to be!
if you spend 1 year on a game and it tanks its a disappointment, but if you spend 6+ years on a game and it tanks, well, thats the kind of thing that closes studios!

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Akuma07
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 3:31:27 AM

the best developers in the business wouldn't, and shouldn't think "its good enough". Thats the exact kind of thinking that has produced SO many mediocre games over the years.

Its funny how perfectionist developers like this, ALWAYS produce the best games in the industry.

If ANY of the dev team, or Sony, thought that the delays would hurt the sales of this game at all, they wouldn't have let it be delayed, for any reason. And that is alot of people who know their stuff.

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___________
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 6:50:16 AM

for most i would be with you, but what is mediocre to kaz is pure gold to everyone else so we would not notice the difference!
im just getting sick of waiting 6+ years to play the game i bought a ps3 for!

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Lawless SXE
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:43:05 AM
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He already said this ages ago didn't he? Well, it's good to see devs trying to reach beyond what they are capable of. All that means is that we are guaranteed to have the best possible experience until the next one comes out. Now, stop teasing me.
Peace.

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SplendidBlended
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 3:09:10 AM
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I am tired of hearing about GT5. Release the Kraken already jeeeez.

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iwillbetheone
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:23:58 AM
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Good news for all of you. GT5 has been confirmed to release on November 24th. See the following link for details:
http://www.indianvideogamer.com/2010/11/november-24-release-date-for-gt5/

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wakkaoaka
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:31:16 PM
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I bet he's looking forward to the ps4 which will hopefully render at 4000p+ (quad hd).

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Shadow_Ninja
Thursday, November 11, 2010 @ 3:14:51 AM

2160p is already quad hd. 4000p would be something more like 7.4 times the resolution of 1080p.

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