PS3 News: Analyst: PS3 Will Surpass 360 "By The End Of 2012" - PS3 News

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Analyst: PS3 Will Surpass 360 "By The End Of 2012"

Based on the latest sales tally, it really does seem inevitable.

Not long after we asked the question, Electronic Entertainment Design and Research analyst Jesse Divnich ventured to provide an answer. He says the Xbox 360's shrinking lead will evaporate entirely within the next two years and given the consumer reaction to the PS3 in the past couple of years, it's probably not a bad guess. Said Divnich:

"Worldwide, Sony will eventually take the lead from Microsoft, likely by the end of 2012. North America is a tougher challenge, and as we have seen lately, Microsoft's lead is widening," he continued. "I don't know if the PS3 will ever overtake the Xbox 360 in North America. Maybe 2014? 2016? We do know the PS3 has incredible long-term value as a Blu-ray player, much like the PlayStation 2 did as a DVD player. But with strong competition coming from the digital front, one has to wonder if the PS3 will receive long retail legs like its predecessor did."

North America has always been a safe haven for Microsoft and although Sony continues to push, Divnich is right in saying the PS3 may never surpass the 360 in this region. The one-year head-start, combined with an unbeatable marketing campaign (one Sony executive said in the past that they'd "probably never spend as much as Microsoft") has assured the 360's position. But given Blu-Ray, cutting-edge exclusive titles, the free Network, and great reliability, the PS3 has kept growing.

Next generation oughta be interesting.

Tags: ps3, playstation 3, xbox 360, games industry, hardware sales

11/9/2010 9:07:14 PM Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (96 posts)

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 9:45:56 PM
Reply

Imo, the ps3 has already surpassed the 360. Not in raw sales obviously, but for a machine that cost a lot (a LOT!), is a pain to develop for, and has had some pretty bad ports over the years, staying just a few mil behind the 360 is impressive.
That and the fact that the 360 sold a few extra consoles due to failures after the 3 year warranty.

I'm sure the ps3 will catch up with raw sales numbers, especially after the crap ton of amazing games in 2011. GT5 should move a few consoles if it is ever released, so that gap might get very close just at the end of 2010.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 9:52:18 PM

360 also had a 1 year head start.

And maybe the PS3 isn't the pain to develop for as much as it is the nature of the multi-plat business. What we have is two distinctly different architectures. The challenge has been creating the same game on two very different pieces of hardware. If the PS3 was exactly as it was today, and the 360 never existed, I don't think the PS3 would've ever been referred to as a pain. Rather a powerful machine with lots of far reaching potential.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 11/9/2010 9:52:54 PM

Agree with this comment 8 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:25:27 PM

No, it actually is a pain. The 360 does things very similar to how a pc does due to its tri-core PPC processor. PPC has been around for a while and anyone worth their salt can get an engine running on it in no time.
The Cell, having only one PPC core with the SPE's everyone loves, forces devs to think about coding in a whole new way. SPEs are incredibly fast but only with very specific tasks. The PPC is meant to break a huge task into tiny pieces and send that to the SPEs. When done correctly it is incredibly fast, but its not something that has ever been done in a mainstream CPU before.
The reason a lot of ports are awful is because the devs try to run as much on the PPC core as possible while barely using the SPEs.

Sony's first and second party devs take the time to do it correctly, which is why it can pull off games like KZ3 and Uncharted 2, but those games are built in a completely different way than anything before it.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:59:16 PM

I don't doubt that making use of all of PS3's processing is more challenging than what game designers were used to from prior generations or PC design. I'm mostly referring to the "pain" of porting from 360 to PS3. I'd imagine it'd be a lot easier to start a game on PS3 and finish it than to start a game on 360 and port it to the PS3--looks at Bayonetta for a recent example. And then there's all of those engines like UE3 and IW-engine that were born from PC/360 which still struggle on PS3 today.

But to connect to my other point. Even first gen PS3 games still managed to look great and were made in relatively short time by just using the PS3's raw resources--all PPU and RSX (Resistance). That's why I think that if it weren't for the multi-platform "parody" ;) this gen, the feelings expressed by console devs would've been less upsetting and less of a "pain" but rather, more optimistic about what the future holds from unearthing the processing buried within the CELL. It's a perspective thing.



Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:42:32 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:42:32 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:42:33 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:42:33 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:42:50 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:00 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:15 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:21 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:21 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:35 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:43:50 AM

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 9:57:41 PM
Reply

Just for once I'd like to see an analyst do their job and analyze the data. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to look at the 360 and see that several million units of the 'sales' figures are repeat sales caused by failed units and permanent XBL bans. It wouldn't really take a lot of analysis from a professional and highly paid group of analysts to figure out what we have known for some time now. PS3 is ahead of the 360, except in the US.

IIRC, the PSN vs XBL subscriber numbers tell the same story.

Agree with this comment 15 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:26:22 PM

I forgot about banned consoles, but to be fair there are going to be a few banned PS3s in the future. Unfortunate, but a part of the industry.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:18:20 AM

what about the ps3, ps3s dont break?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 9 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:47:01 AM

You know, you really don't know how to construct an argument do you? The PS3's failure rate is (and always has been) a mere fraction of that of the 360. If you want to argue the point that millions of 360's are repeat purchases because of dead units, you can hardly cite the PS3's own considerably lower failure rate as justification of your argument.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/10/2010 12:47:43 AM

Agree with this comment 9 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:08:20 AM

Actually, from what I gather, the failure rate of the PS3 is something around about 16%... I think that was the stat. If my memory serves me right there, then that is roughly half of the 360 failure rate (depending on what rate you're using. I am, of course, using the commonly referred to 33%)... BUT, as a caveat, we must remember that the PS3 currently, and always has, cost more than the 360, thus making it less likely for people to buy a second one in the instance of the first breaking.

I agree with Highlander, although, the use of the PSN vs XBLGold users isn't really fair considering the PSN is made up of every different account on the PS3, PSP, and PC, while Gold is only Gold.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:16:14 AM

Actually, no. 16% is only valid for a self selecting sample of customers of a console repair service in the US.

Neither Microsoft or Sony publish specific figures, however Sony has consistently stated that their failure rate is in line with that expected for consumer electronics devices. Which would put it in the 2-3% range. Microsoft on the other hand has had no choice but to implicitly accept a 30% (more or less) failure rate with respect to the RROD problem alone. Analysis of the $1.1billion (USD) set aside purely for the RROD indicated that they were expecting to repair/replace something like a third of all 360s that were in the market at the time. That was nearly 2 years into the RROD debacle when many consumers initial 1 year warranty had already expired and they'd bought replacement units.

16% is not the correct failure rate for the general PS3 population at all.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 3:53:10 AM

I'll take your word for it, but we must remember 'on a large enough time scale, all survival rates fall to zero.'

Also, I would expect the death rate of PS3s to be at least 10% by now. Everything stops... even PS3s. But the 360 failure rate is well documented. You really have to estimate for the PS3, as nothing has really been definite.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

gumbi
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 8:21:35 AM

I'm on my second PS3. My 60Gb, that I sold a kidney to buy at launch, died after almost exactly two years. I reflowed it and babied it and got an extra few months, but that was the end.

I took a lot of flak for that one. I'd been promoting the PS3 and it's remarkable reliability to my xbox friends (all still on their original 360's by the way... go figure). That was a pride burner, it still stings.

Unfortunately, my YLOD experience with the first seriously shook my once rock solid faith in Sony's console reliability. I hate being a statistic. I know it's rare, but trust me it's devastating for those who paid an inordinate amount of money for their uber console...

Oh and by the way everyone, backup!!! all the time. When a PS3 hard drive is formatted it's locked to a hardware signature (gay). This means that if your PS3 croaks, even if your hard drive is in pristine condition, you're screwed. There's absolutely no way to recover that data. You HAVE to reformat it to put the drive in another PS3. Sony got an earful from me on that little quirk.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:02:22 AM

I still believe, that although there are exceptions to every rule as may be in gumbi's case, that all systems, 360's and PS3 both, have a large number of failures due to people not taking proper care of their systems. I firmly believe that if people did the little things, they would have no problems.

My PS3 is a 60GB launch system. I preordered a month before release, even. Still going strong!

People put their PS3's and 360's on things like glass, metal, or carpet (glass conducts heat, people...), put them in poorly ventilated encasements, leave them on for days at a time (not a big deal if properly ventilated), play their systems for long periods of time in heat above the recommended playing temperature as stated in your manual (if it's summer, stinkin' hot, then put a fan or A/C near your PS3 if you MUST play it ceaselessly), and some people NEVER clean out the vents!!!

I'm just sayin'.... some people are practically BEGGING for a YLOD or RROD. The only reason more 360's fail, is mostly due to engineering behind it's ventilation and heat generation. I think you'll find the newer 360's have a much lower fail rate.

PS3's are most likely due mostly to people being careless with their system. However, I do recognize, that anything with moving parts will always have at least a small chance of failing, so there will be inevitable exceptions to my main rule of thumb. But they are likely few and far between.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:03:47 AM

YloD victim right here =)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Neo_Aeon666
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:27:36 AM

hahaha I got a ylod too on a 60gb deluxe 600$ after 2yrs and a half. :P

210$ for shipping and repairs and they can't even get your data back (worthless techs) lol

But yeah in my case that was due to my girlfriend not opening the doors of the cabinet my ps3 is in XD and she let the console run and left. When I came back from work it was on FAN EXTREM SPEED lol. And so I turn it off and the next day it had ylod.

So anyway I just bought a slim instead for a 90$ difference lol.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:51:02 AM

The thing is that the RROD on an Xbox 360 is/was a 100% fatal issue. The new kinder gentler error that masks the same condition so that the extended warranty no longer covers it, is similarly fatal...

The so-called YLOD on the PS3, is a general hardware fault, not a failure. More often than not this fault condition can be traced to either a bad HDD or BD player. That's one of the reasons I refute the higher failure rates that people sometimes quote for the PS3. The simple truth is that they are not dead units. When Sony gets them, they turn around and send the customer back a fully reconditioned refurb unit. It's during the initial triage process that happens to incoming faulty units that the really dead units with motherboard or chip issues are separated from the others. Units that have faulty, but replaceable components such as the BD player lens assembly, are then factory refurbished to return them to factory condition, ready to go out to another customer.

Of course there are complete failures where something no the motherboard has died, or there's a solder problem, or the heat sink fan fails. But these are in the minority of PS3 YLOD issues, and are within the failure rate normally associated with heavily used consumer electronics. I'd definitely agree that the failure rate will be on the higher end of the normal range for CE products since PS3s are often very heavily used, but that's still not generating double digit failure rates.

BTW if anyone thinks that the 'reflow' thing actually works, please do some research on the temperatures required to re-flow solder and how those same temperatures will affect the components on the motherboard. The motherboard in the PS3 is, like most modern systems, a multi-layer board. Many of the solder tracks that people think break are buried within the motherboard. The heat needed to make solder melt sufficiently to flow is generally at least 180 degrees Celcius. 180C will bake your motherboard and cause damage to the components. The solder joints that are also thought to sometimes break require the same amount of heat, and unless it's applied locally, the same problems of damage to the motherboard and other components apply.

When these things are manufactured the motherboard is passed through a special machine that applies solder using a wave which passes across the underside of the motherboard quickly, depositing solder on the joints that must be connected. There is a masking method that prevents the solder from fixing to the whole motherboard and only the joints are soldered. This doesn't expose the motherboard to the heat of soldering for more than a moment which causes no damage.

I've seen people recommend a heat gun or really hot hairdryer be used to heat the solder so that it re-flows. This doesn't work. All it does is cause the motherboard to heat up, expand and flex slightly. That flexing can cause poor joints to re-contact and the system will 'work' for a while until the heat of operation causes the weak joint that's failing to fail again. But the heat from the heat gun causes more damage to other components, and is causing the motherboard to expand and flex which in turn weakens other joints. Many times a system that doesn't have any motherboard fault is apparently 'fixed' by this method because the process of dis-assembly and re-assembly re-seats some connection or jars something mechanical that was causing a failure. Such as a poorly lubricated drive arm, or SATA connector. But like the solder issue, this is often simply masking the problem which will potentially re-occur, not to mention the fact that the motherboard which was not at fault has been given a heat treatment that has almost certainly degraded it's condition.

Of course no one offering to repair YLOD using any method that claims to reflow the solder is going to tell you this at all, and will claim it's just scare tactics by Sony, etc... Whatever. The information is easy to find, and the melting point of led free solder is really well documented.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

gumbi
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:04:00 PM

Sigh... I paid almost $700 for my 60Gb. There's no way in hell I wasn't taking great care of that piece of hardware. it was on the edge of my desk, elevated on a grated platform and well ventilated. I took good care of her, she just went kaput.

And yes, reflowing DOES work. if your BDROM and HDD are okay, then it's probably a mobo issue. This is NOT a permanent fix, and it definitely voids your warranty (if you still have one) and sony won't do the $200 swap for you (that's what it was when i YLOD'd, it may be cheaper now). But you can squeeze and extra 2 - 8 months out of your console if you know what you are doing and are careful not to cook the board. I did this, it does work, i got an extra 4 months, then YLOD again, then I reflowed a second time and got another few weeks out of it. If you want to save your data, this is the route to take. Reflow it, backup your data. Then start saving for a new console, cuz you will need it when she dies for good.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:45:57 PM

@gumbi
Yeah, I did say you were probably the exception to the rule. (I find the kids that don't take care of their systems typically have more than one system go kaput... you know... the ones who say "I've gone through 3 360/ps3's!!")

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:21:21 PM

The failure rate numbers that I've seen from most article not associated with either Sony or M$, were.....

PS3 3 to 5% *
360 33 to 55% **

Please note:

* These numbers are PRE-PS3 Slims

** These 360 numbers are Pre-360 Squat failures.(one of which even had a YouTube video of the new 360Squat failing on the very first day it released).

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

gumbi
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:22:09 PM

Yeah I got ya Underdog, no worries. This topic just always strikes a chord with me. My PS3 was the only console I've ever had die on me. My NES, SNES, GC, PS1, PS2, and PSP are all still working fine (last I played them anyway). Here's hoping my Slim will keep kickin for a long while.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 4:16:41 PM

@Gumbi,

I'm afraid that it really doesn't work, your own experience proves this beyond a doubt. If 'reflowing' worked, you would not have had to do it a second time just a few months later, and then a third time after that. All your experience does show is that you can heat the motherboard and the thermal expansion causes poor joints to flex, and perhaps make contact again, but it weakens others. Which is why your PS3 failed again, and then a third and final time. Did you put your PS3 into a test rig to diagnose the motherboard to see if there was a flaw there? All the heating process that people use to 'reflow' solder does is mask the real problem. If reflowing really did work, your system would not have failed again.

Seriously guys, this isn't a matter of opinion, it's pure materials science. But, you know, if you want to believe in re-flowing, that's your right. Just as it's my right to think that it's just a flawed method to mask a real issue and cause further damage to a piece of electronics that doesn't like extreme heat.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/10/2010 4:17:50 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

gumbi
Thursday, November 11, 2010 @ 8:10:35 AM

Highlander, I think our definitions of what 'works' are a little different here. Reflowing worked perfectly for what I needed. I'm not suggesting reflowing as a permanent fix, realistically there is no permanent fix if your solder joints have deteriorated. Unless you are very skilled and have the right tools.

I do however promote reflowing as an alternative to paying Sony $200 for a refurb with a 90 day warranty when they can't even recover your data which is perfectly in tact. Reflowing can buy you some extra time with your console to backup your data and save up for a brand new PS3 with a full warranty that's surely to last you much longer than a refurb that cost 2/3 as much.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:00:30 PM
Reply

First mover advantage has really given the Xbox360 a strong base to work from. Kinetic may continue to bolster the machines presense in the home market and give it legs for a good few years to come.

My prediction is that M$ will introduce the next Xbox to the world before Sony is ready to release their console. I am concerned that by waiting too long Sony will lose momentum again!

M$ has had enough time to see how Sony works in this market. In addition I am sure they will not play second fiddle to Sony when it comes to technology next time around. I am sure they will do what they can to produce an HD multi-core beast that will probably be a very good piece of hardware.

Generally, when people talk about the next generation of consoles we are looking at the CPU having at least 8 to 16 cores, maybe more... with a decent update to the GFX allowing for true 60FPS gaming at 1080p without compromise... something the current gen has been a let down personally.

A lot of hype was bounded about at launch, but when push comes to shove, we see developers having to cut corners and proving that even when trying to "max" out the hardware, it is difficult to make 1080p stick. Hopefully this will not be the case in the next generation of hardware, which in my eyes... were the consoles we wanted this generation... basically!

Q!

"please don't hack me... I'm innocent"

Last edited by Qubex on 11/9/2010 10:03:45 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:09:40 PM

It seems every gen presents a crazy set of variables that determine success. I know that beating a competitor out of the gate has often times resulted in slow progress, if not failure. Turbo Grafx 16, Saturn and DC stick out in my mind as systems that launched early but hit the dirt first.
I think 360's success was mostly riding on the wave of the rapidly growing competitive online gaming market that was booming. MS had a good head start with that and I think that helped them out a lot this gen. I also think the whole online community this gen, especially for 360, kept gamers glued to their platform despite the whole horrendous RRoD issue. It's just too hard to walk away from all of those achievement points and online buddies.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 11/9/2010 10:10:24 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:24:13 PM

Temjin, you make a good point about the competitive online gaming addage. No doubt M$ took their vast experience of PC gaming and pasted it all over their development methodology and ethos on the Xbox360.

They made the hardware "easier" to develop for. The underlying cross platform development tools for PC to Xbox360 game engine compiling made the whole M$ <> Partner model work well out of the gate, and the developers were able to start harnessing the power of the 360 pretty quickly. Just look how 80% of the time Digital Foundry reports that a multi platform title performs better and looks nicer on the 360 than on the PS3... this should have never happened according to Sony's hype in the early days.

The online multi-play ecosystem M$ refined for the 360 also helped nicely, as you pointed out... but some years have passed now... we will have to see if that first mover advantage holds out again for the next console round...

Q!

"please don't hack me... I'm innocent"

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:32:31 PM

Yeah, the PC to 360 friendliness really helped with the multi-plats. The PS3 usually gets the shaft with ports from that orientation.

On the bright side, we've been seeing a few multi-plats recently that have used custom PS3 engines that yield better, if not equal to, performance on PS3: Castlevania, FF13, Darksiders, NGS2, Tekken 6 are a few that come to mind.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 11:15:40 PM

Qubex,
Well, I for one would love to see the 720 have that much power, if for no other reason, there wouldn't be any more gimped up games ported to the Playstation.
And of course, that Sony would still have either a bigger & more powerful console, or it could least do more with it's architecture, than M$ does.

I just hope what ever happens, M$ lesser disc-abilities doesn't wind up hindering any of the PS4's multiplat games once again.

M$ Skynet needs to either start playing ball with the rest of planet Earth.....or die a agonizingly slow painful death!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:26:17 AM

Qubex, it should never happen today, the PS3 is more than capable of matching the performance of the 360 in the majority of games. It's just that the graphics/game engine has to be built for the PS3, and optimized for the PS3, not built for the 360, ported and briefly optimized for release. But then I tend to take Digital Foundry with a pinch of salt. I think multi-platform games are s poor indicator of the actual performance capability of the PS3. When porting a game all you are required to do is the minimum necessary. Sadly, inferior ports will always be an issue.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 4:22:21 AM

Thank you for your responses guys... You make valid points.

No doubt it will be interesting to see what M$ does with its future hardware, I am sure they are going to want impress and try to take the lead once again in the next round.

Let us not discount the dark horse, Nintendo's HD console, which may come in and be a new beginning for the company with powerful hardware to boot.

Highlander, no doubt; and, as mentioned by Temjin too, with more care and attention by multi-plat developers, to enhance and optimised their PS3 engines, we actually see the multi-plat games in question look better and more polished than their 360 counterparts... and it has been happen more often this year than any other time.

So it's taken 5 years to get to this point... maybe we can expect similar long "get to know the hardware" cycle for the next generation of hardware?

*Biker Saint - so true man :)

Q!

"please don't hack me... I'm innocent"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:16:20 AM

I'm not sure Qubex. I am still hoping against hope that Sony has an attack of logic and builds a system with twin PowerXcel8i processors and a semi-decent GPU. That sort of system ought to have sufficient power to pull off real time ray tracing in games. It would render the entire debate about GPUs and everything else moot. Either way though, it would allow developers that have invested in working with the Cell to use those skills on the new console instead of relearning another architecture.

What I don't think Sony needs to do is go for yet another different and complex architecture. I think that would stunt the growth of the game library of the new system and mean a repeat of the situation we have now with poor multi-platform ports.

I don't know how they could do it, but I'd love for Sony to find a way to make the PS4 work both as a game console (securely) and as a regular personal workstation, perhaps running Linux or Android. Obviously, security is a major issue there, but Sony has clearly learned some lessons with the PS3, and perhaps they can take it even further allowing homebrew to work on the system in the non-game mode, yet fully protecting the game mode and game content. Like I said, I don't know how they can pull that one off, but it would be great if they could.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

gumbi
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:28:43 PM

Highlander. I share you're hopes on this one, but I highly doubt we'll ever see a console that supports homebrew (legitimately). I've been pining for it for years. And after that mess with Geohot I don't know if they'll ever even support a secondary OS again. Which is a crying shame, I loved having Linux on my old PS3.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, November 11, 2010 @ 6:36:59 AM

Highlander, you make a very interesting point about the non-game mode idea for homebrew developers. I think it would be great if Sony looked at promoting this, and also getting famous demo groups to make tech demos for their new console.

Sony need to be inclusive, not divisive , whereby they perceive the "non-gaming" community as a threat and have to take features away from a piece of hardware they intended to sell in a certain way... I mean it still makes me shake my head when I think about it... incredible...

Also, let's not forget though, that the current PS3 was actually glitched via a hardware hack initially. If I remember correctly, in Geohotz case specifically, he had the bare motherboard open with a whole lot of wires coming from it... pulsing the ram as the console ran and dumping LV2... incredible... looked like open heart surgery... Surely something similar could be done on new hardware if the hacker knows the hard lines to hack into... lol, like the Matrix or similar :)

Why does Sony not do what Apple do and create a single "hard body" for their PS4... so only they can open it with a special custom tool?

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

dante_zero
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 10:21:21 PM
Reply

i imagine once GT5 releases Sony will be catching up pretty quick and then fact in exclusives i reckon they could probably do it before 2012 especially with Sony pretty much owning europe right now.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 11:04:28 PM
Reply

Bullsh*t to 2012!!!!

As Highlander & myself keep on repeating, we both say that PS3 has to have already surpassed the 360, just by these facts alone....

1.Sony counts "SOLD" units, M$ counts "SHIPPED"

2. Numerous 360 re-buys due to 33% RROD'S(and at one point,it was at an astonishing 53%)

3. Over a million banned modded 360's(and that was the second ban, the first one was only for a couple hundred thousand xbox-bots)

4. Kinect - Over the last 3-4 months, I've read articles on how the Kenect motion sensor isn't compatible with any NON-squat 360's hardware, so everyone who want's to use the Kinect seamlessly, needs to upgrade their bot-box to the new bot-box squat.


Now with all those informational facts, and, with all the money Electronic Entertainment Design and Research paid out to that analyst, I'm not sure how many $1000's & $1000 less Highlander would've charged them for this info, But hell, I can go for cheap, & just a $500 Gamestop card would've made my whole freaking day.


Agree with this comment 6 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 11:10:32 PM

LOL! Dude, make it 2 $500 cards for GameStop and we'll co-author the next report. Co-authored reports are always more authoritative...

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

aaronisbla
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:24:00 AM

not to play devil's advocate here but with a 3 year warranty that they are pretty much forced to offer their customers, id be willing to say that the number of people who actually bought another system are lower than what some believe

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:22:26 AM

Not really, their extended warranty only came nearly 2 years into the product life of the 360 when the RROD problem reached epidemic proportions and MS could no longer ignore it. That was when reports started to surface that showed failure rates of at least 30%. Despite the extended warranty, many 360 owners have opted to purchase an Arcade system as a stand-by in case their main unit dies, then all they need to is swap out the HDD. The extended warranty was too little too late. Based only on the reported failure rate at the time the extended warranty plan was announced, very nearly 3 million Xbox360s could already have failed out of warranty and before the extended warranty was brought in to effect.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 8:22:44 AM

"Kinect - Over the last 3-4 months, I've read articles on how the Kenect motion sensor isn't compatible with any NON-squat 360's hardware, so everyone who want's to use the Kinect seamlessly, needs to upgrade their bot-box to the new bot-box squat."

Where did you read this?

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:21:34 AM

I think that the problem with the older Xbox 360s is that their USB ports can't power the Kinect camera and it therefore requires an external power unit and therefore an extra power socket. But as far as I know it's 100% compatible, the issue is limited to the power thing.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:37:27 AM

That's correct. The newer "slim" models are made to be able to power both console and Kinect. The older ones can't supply power to it.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:12:21 PM

Also, I forgot to throw this into my equation too(above).....

5. I believe that MS also count's all it's give-a-way's as shipped, therefore they're also counting them as being sold too.

And just to name a few give-a-ways, M$ gave away tons of Kinect 360 Squats at...
The Oprah Show
Helen Degeneris's show
The Jimmy Fallon show
All the Boys(and Girls) Clubs nationally
The Time Square launch
The Burger King contest
Gamestop's COD:Black Ops Contest

And the list goes on & on & on, etc, etc, etc......

Last edited by BikerSaint on 11/10/2010 2:13:24 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

johnld
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 5:13:38 PM

@aaron
just look at comments on game sites and you'll find this scenario pretty common. Most 360 owners buy another 360, usually an arcade model, "in case their primary 360 breaks". i got in a conversation with someone who repaired his 360 15 times, said he always had a back up one for times when his 360 is sent in for repairs. at one time he had to send in both consoles so he bought another one.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Snaaaake
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 11:16:47 PM
Reply

2 years?
Did they overlook GT5?

I'd say mid 2011!!

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Tuesday, November 09, 2010 @ 11:22:19 PM
Reply

Highlander

Got yourself a deal!

Get 3 photocopies made, & meet me at the Library of Congress.

I'll get someone there to give it their best official looking Notary Public "Seal of Good Bookkeeping".

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:21:30 AM
Reply

doubt it, kinects going to make it sell like hotcakes again!
it suppose to be getting a price drop early next year, than gears 3 releases and pushes it up again.
cant wait till project kingdoms, hopefully crytek will be talking about it soon, they apparently have been working on it for a few years so it might be out sooner than we think!
hopefully!
crysis 2 + project kingdoms = one awesome year for crytek, and one kick a$$ year for gamers!!!!!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 10 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:18:49 AM

You sure do sound an awful lot like an Xbox fanboy you know.

Agree with this comment 9 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 6:43:06 AM

whatever, its just common sense!
who does not like the idea of kinect?
come on, you cant tell me you were not sitting in minority report saying that would be so cool if i could do that!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:34:46 AM

Nono, ______, I saw minority report... and wanted to do what they were doing... then got the eye toy for PS2.... and realized.... no controller=no fun.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 4:56:28 PM

Cowpatty, you don't know the meaning of commonsense. Please get lost with your nonsense. Most of us are pretty sick of looking are idiot comments everyday.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

RebelJD
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:33:58 AM
Reply

Quite honestly the only victory that would give the PS3 the recognition it truly deserves would be surpassing the 360 in the states.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:36:01 AM

In the US. I'm sure other countries have a completely different view than us.

Take France or Germany for example.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:18:12 AM

That's a purely US-centric point of view. Something that the gaming media are very guilty of. Reading any of the mainstream gaming publications you get the impression that the 360 is dominant over the PS3. Whereas that is not true outside the Americas. In the global market its a wash, and in Europe and the Asia Pacific region, the PS3 leads comfortably.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 8:25:53 AM

"That's a purely US-centric point of view. Something that the gaming media are very guilty of. Reading any of the mainstream gaming publications you get the impression that the 360 is dominant over the PS3. Whereas that is not true outside the Americas. In the global market its a wash, and in Europe and the Asia Pacific region, the PS3 leads comfortably. "

I think you made his point. Outside the US, the 360 isn't dominant. So the PS3 overtaking the 360 outside the US isn't that big of a deal, especially given that it already enjoys better support than the 360 in Europe/Asia. However, were it to take over the 360 in the US, which is by far the 360's best market, it would be a big deal.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:08:20 AM

@Sirloin and Rebel
I think Highlander's point is that you must analyze the competition globally.

Why in the world would the true test be in the states? Why not Europe or Japan? When he says it's US-centric, he means you're feeding into the US mentality of America somehow being the centre of the world. It clearly isn't.

Highlander's point is that the true test is the global success, so once overall sales exceed the 360, that is the true test. You cannot gauge the success of the PS3 and 360 on the country of your choosing. You know? You clearly would not agree with someone who says, "PS3 sold better in Japan, therefore, it is the better success of the two." So why would anyone agree with you saying the true test is in the states? Overall is what matters.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/10/2010 9:09:55 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 9:35:32 AM

I'm not feeding into the US mentality that we're the center of the world. As to why I think Highlander made his point, he even states that in Europe and Asia, the PS3 has a comfortable lead. In the rest of the world that isn't the US, it's pretty much even. It's here in the US where the 360 has the biggest lead over the PS3. That has nothing to do with "rah rah rah the US is #1". That's just how it's worked out.

So, yes, given that the biggest hurdle to the PS3 overtaking the 360 globally is the PS3 overtaking the 360 in the US, I don't think it's that "US centric" to say that if the PS3 does overtake the 360 in the US market (the 360's home market), it's the true test of its dominance.

I agree that overall is what matters. When most of the globe is either even or has been more PS3-friendly for most of the time, the "big deal" of getting global dominance is by taking over your competition's biggest market which, in this case, is the United States.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:06:12 AM

The point I was making - very badly - was to emphasize that the recognition that RebelJD was referring to, is recognition in the US gaming media.

In the more local and parochial gaming media in Japan or European markets, the PS3 is already portrayed as the more dominant of the two. Our perception filter is more or less (rightly or wrongly) the English speaking gaming media. That gaming media is very much dominated by US based news sites and publications almost all of which are heavily slanted towards Microsoft and their console.

A couple of years ago when the PS3 lagged behind the 360 everywhere except Japan, it was frequently stated that the PS3 would never close the gap. The context then was global. as the PS3 has closed that gap and extended it's dominance over the 360 in Japan, the context changed to just the US because it was clear that globally the PS3 would overtake the 360. Something which people had previously said would be the true indicator of whether the PS3 was a success. So now here we are, the PS3 is poised to do just that, and success has now been redefined as beating the 360 in the US.

Gotta love shifting goal posts...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:35:12 AM
Reply

It's saddening to see the US lagging behind yet another stat. First it's education, then it's jobs, now it's consoles.

Clearly the world knows which console delivers the goods.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:42:06 AM
Reply

I think the release of the PSP2 will be a telltale sign as to whether or not Sony learned anything this gen.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 12:50:17 AM

Basically,

cheap > everything

$199 would be a good price. Anything beyond that would just doom it.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 2:42:08 PM

That's one for sure. I'd also like to see some features such as dual-analogs and trophy support. They should also come up with something unique to the PSP2 that would really surprise and entice gamers.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

FlyingKickPunch
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 6:19:48 PM

It will be...599 US dollars!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:02:03 AM
Reply

By the end of 2011**
There fixed. As for overtaking in the US, yeah, never going to happen. I think the same problem applies here as well. Last time I got semi-official figures for the 'console war' (there's a phrase I haven't seen in a while), the 360 had a comfortable lead. Well, it is a marathon, not a sprint, and Sony still has more than a few tricks up its sleeve. I sort of don't care anymore, because XBots will lie through their teeth to 'prove' that they have the better system. I'll just keep looking forward and see what else is coming out, then pick up the PS4 when it releases, because it will be quality.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Zorigo
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 1:11:58 PM
Reply

You know what'd be ironic. if the world ended in 2012 as the ps3 surpassed xbox, when the xbots were saying that the world will end if the ps3 overtakes xbox... :D

but yeah, it makes sense thatll happen

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

johnld
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 5:04:01 PM
Reply

i can see their marketing campaign for their next console. "from the makers of the #1 console in north america" even ignoring the wii because its not seen as a competition and even when sony surpasses them worldwide. They'll use that "win" as much as they can. however, that stigma of broken 360s will stick but unfortunately idiots outnumber smart consumers greatly so they'll still sell consoles. Really, they need to learn to release a reliable console.

problem: RROD arises
solution: lets throw money to fix broken ones.
new problem: RROD is left unfixed
new solution: lets fix the actual 360 little by little and for as cheap as possible.
new problem: RROD is still there plus E97 error
new solution: little improvements
new problem: RROD and E97 still there
new solution: 360 slim, they said lets get rid of the lights on the ring to "fix" the RROD and make it turn itself off when it gets too hot (i know ps3 does it but 360 works as a heater a lot better than ps3).
new problem: red dot of death, before the disc MIGHT be scratched when 360 is moved. Now the disc WILL be scratched when 360 is moved.

Predicted microsoft solution: screw the 360 and lets prematurely start the next console generation.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 10:12:09 PM

Yep, that's about right.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

FlyingKickPunch
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 6:18:42 PM
Reply

But....but, the world's ending at the end of 2012... :P

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Robochic
Wednesday, November 10, 2010 @ 11:36:05 PM
Reply

I agree with Bikersaint and Highlander the ps3 has already surpassed the Xbox360 in sales and I don't think rebuys and giveaways should be included in that stat as well.

My 20gig launched ps3 died but let me say that I got more than I paid for in use out of that fat princess :) I am defently not angry with sony for it kicking the bucket I had a great run with it lasted longer than my friends 3 xboxs he's gotta in that time frame.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:39:41 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:39:42 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:39:43 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:39:43 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:07 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:17 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:17 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:21 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:30 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:37 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:43 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:52 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:56 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:40:57 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:41:14 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:41:25 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:41:28 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

The Chosen One
Saturday, November 13, 2010 @ 3:41:29 AM
Reply

XBOX IS HORRIBLE, LAME, AND BROKEN.PS3 IS BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT.END OF STORY.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

Got the Wii U?
Yep, had mine since day one.
Yeah; I just recently picked it up.
No, but I might get one soon...
No, and I don't ever want one.

Previous Poll Results