PS3 News: Games That Make The Fans Go, "Wait, What IS This?" - PS3 News

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Games That Make The Fans Go, "Wait, What IS This?"

It's one of the most bizarre occurrences in video games: when a developer inexplicably ignores the fans and completely overhauls a new title in an established franchise. Usually, such an overhaul doesn't go over well with the fans...and duh, it's because the formula the gamers fell in love with has disappeared!

Why some designers choose to do this remains a mystery. There have been several such instances in this generation and assuredly, Final Fantasy XIII tops the list. I've said it many times and I'll say it again: the best way to explain FFXIII is to say it's a great game...it just isn't a great FF installment. I made it plain when reviewing the game that if it had been a new IP, it would've scored higher. Hell, most all critics would've scored it higher. It just abandoned much of what the fans adore. Now, one could make the argument that Final Fantasy XII featured a huge departure from past series iterations and yet, that one still worked. Ah, but the difference is that it felt exactly like an RPG; in fact, it felt like a more modern RPG with open-ended exploration and a turn-based/real-time hybrid form of combat. Every element of an RPG was still there and in some ways, each was even more prevalent.

In FFXIII, we got a confusing presentation. It felt less like an RPG and more like a flashy action/adventure that simply didn't resonate with a lot of fans. Still, it was a great game if one simply evaluates it on its merits alone. And yet, in comparison to the best of the best of the series, it falls short. Another example: Splinter Cell: Conviction. For the record, I'm a huge SC fan; the original hooked me over 8 years ago and I've played and loved every single entry since. But something happened in Conviction...something bad. The game that was purely stealth, that rewarded patience, planning and skill, had been replaced by a game that felt like a mad dash through the dark. I can't grab my enemies. I can't move bodies. I can't incapacitate; I can only kill. The new light/shadow system blows. There's little or no opportunity to hack, override cameras and other security barriers, and get the drop on unsuspecting guards.

Why? Because 90% of the time, all the guards are on alert and looking for you, and all my tools are only for combat. Where are my sticky shockers? Where's my all-purpose rifle that fires everything from sticky cameras to ring airfoil rounds? Now, I just throw a sticky camera at a wall and I've got a few mines and grenades. It feels nothing like SC. I can't imagine fans of past games enjoying this in the slightest; I for one couldn't even finish it. After coming upon yet another level where all the guards are instantly alerted from the start and remain alerted throughout, which only promotes constant firefights, I just had to quit. Hate it. Now, what prompts a developer to do this? Who stands up and says, "hey, let's change everything and see if the fans like it..." The question is- why?! Why?

It's not a rhetorical question. I don't have an answer. Do you?

Tags: final fantasy xiii, ffxiii, splinter cell, sc conviction, games industry

1/2/2011 9:28:04 PM Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (135 posts)

noodles619
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:11:04 PM
Reply

The one thing I truly dislike about FF13 is that every battle ends with the 'star' rating. To go into every battle with the mentality of trying to nail 5 stars becomes draining and off-putting, especially when you knew you tried your best but only get 3-4 stars. And after barely surviving a battle with a boss, for them to tell you that you deserve no stars is nausea-inducing.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Killa Tequilla
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:15:22 PM

You tell em' girl

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:24:34 PM

I can't believe they give you all your HP back after the battle, what kind of RPG does that?

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Kevadu
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:34:56 AM

TWEWY did it and that was a bloody fantastic game.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:54:34 AM

huh? What'd I do?

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Godslim
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 7:02:16 AM

yeh i ve just started playing ff13 and i thought it was wierd giving me all my hp back after a fight :S

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

ZettaiSeigi
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:51:08 AM

I couldn't agree more on this one. I'm playing FF XIII right now and it's so weird that most (if not all) battles end in less than a minute. That "star rating" after the battles sure are annoying!

When I played the previous FF games, I remember actually paying attention to the enemies' weaknesses after casting Libra. Now? I cast Libra, choose auto-battle, and the AI adjusts accordingly. I hardly had to think anymore! For that reason alone, FF XII is basically like a button masher. My brother was watching me play and he asked why I keep pressing the X button. And he's right, which RPG needs you to button-mash?

There are things that FF XIII did great, with graphics being the most obvious one. I also like the story and most of the characters. However, the battle system was such a letdown. I can't even appreciate how awesome the spells and summons look when I use them, as my eyes are constantly watching the various bars/gauges!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

AnonWTF
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:51:01 PM

You guys definitely haven't played not one of the saga series by square enix. Romancing Saga anyone?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Zorigo
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 3:50:50 PM

saw ff for the first time in my life today. it wasn't fighting. it was just clicking through a menu! my mate had to press 3 menu selections in a boss battle and the rest of the battle was done for him... he did NOTHING.
seriously, we made a god damn smoothie and came back and the game itself defeated the boss for us.
!!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 7:26:15 PM

Not sure bout that Zorigo, you still have to be on top of the battles every time it's your turn. If you just let them stand there they will die.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

manofchao5
Thursday, January 06, 2011 @ 3:42:20 PM

lol splinter cell went to being exclusive for that one for 360, final fantasy went to being multi plat for 360

i think some developers believe 360 users will buy anything lol
and cod kind of proves that

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

LittleBigMidget
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:22:33 PM
Reply

Final Fantasy 13. garbage. That is all.

Agree with this comment 13 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

telly
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:58:42 PM

FF XIII was garbage, and it would have been garbage no matter what it was called or who released it. I'm impressed by the number of people here who actually ENJOYED that game in the slightest. Hopelessly broken combat, moronic story, nonsensical presentation, and on and on and on. The first 20 hours of the game were a friggin' tutorial! Everything that is WRONG with JRPGs was included. And nearly everything I love about a great JRPG was taken out.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:24:08 PM
Reply

I have the answer as to why. It's called Call of Duty. As soon as publishers of games that used to require thought and patience saw those numbers, they decided they had to change their game into something more twitchy. SE even admitted to trying to get an FPS feel out of FFXIII.

It's all a numbers game, and RPG or Stealth fans be damned as long as there is a possibility the publisher will pick up new, different, mainstream fans that have the buying power that COD commands.

This was done to Resident Evil too. It's a damn shame too. A damn shame when the pinnacle series in each genre gets dumbed down. Metal Gear Solid is next.

Agree with this comment 10 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:39:32 PM

So Square Enix achieve this by dropping the millions of fans who love their winning formula and go after a crowd who probably never even heard of Final Fantasy, let alone ever wanna play it.

Only 1 game will outsell Call of Duty, and that's the 2011 Call of Duty release in November. Other developers whould realise this and make their game different to sell to the other crowd, the non-CoD crowd.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:48:10 PM

Resident Evil 5 always felt like the natural evolution of Resident Evil 4 to me. I'm not mad at Capcom, especially since the first attempt at the sequel ended up being the Devil May Cry series because it was such a departure. MGS4 was a huge departure from it's previous iterations, IMO. Still enjoyable, though.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:08:29 PM

I wouldn't say the natural evolution of a survival horror game is an action game. If it is then Dead Space 2 is in trouble.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:25:50 PM

It's just that Resident Evil 4 did away with the slow lumbering zombie for more intense action and Resident Evil 5 seemed to go along those lines. Resident Evil 4 even had a quick time knife fight. Definitely not your standard survival horror fare. But everyone says it's the best. I just don't get the Resident Evil 4 love, but 5 hate.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:08:10 AM

Resident Evil 4 still oozed survival horror and cheap scares. Resident Evil 5...not so much.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:43:46 AM

RE4 was not scary, it was creepy with the village in the beginning, and the Laboratory part... i'll give you that, that was the game at its peak. but then you got that silly castle area, which was just beyond daft.

RE5, i started playing but i then played RE3 and realised it was so much better so i returned i the next day without any will to play it. My flatmate has it now so i might actually get around to it as i have no games to play at the moment. But the only feature which stands out to me is that it is set in africa, such an interesting setting for such a game.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:50:44 AM

That's why I said "cheap scares". ;)

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

shadowscorpio
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 @ 12:06:33 AM

Oh please no... Please leave the Metal Gear Solid series as is.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Snicket
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:26:47 PM
Reply

When will the FF13 articles end?


*Not being a hater, just asking.


Also, Ben any chance that users could submit well written editorials to be put on the site?

Agree with this comment 5 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:00:02 PM

There were a couple of reader editorials in the middle of last year I think... Not sure what happened to the idea.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:02:49 PM

Ben was pretty busy, it was a thing in the forums but shriveled up.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:55:49 PM

We might do it again but in reality, there were only a few people who wanted to do it...and even fewer who COULD do it, in all honesty.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:22:14 AM

I might try something some time. We'll see, I'm gonna be super busy soon and might not be able to contribute as much as I have been.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:50:09 AM

I'd gladly try... Just point me where to go.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Snicket
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:22:43 AM

Well I would love to give it a go, I was watching the VGA awards and was embarrassed to be a gamer after that fiasco, I would love to write about it. mostly just for kicks. Where would I submit such a thing?

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:46:36 AM

I agree with Snicket, when will these subtle attacks on FFXIII end, XIII didnt change half as much in comparison to XII, yet people can actually praise that bore.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:07:50 AM

I question you're tastes sometimes considering FFXIII is a hand holding borefest and XII was actually an RPG.

The attacks will never end. FFXIII is utter crap.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:19:24 AM

I beg to differ :)

FFXIII had what XII lacked, a story, characters with actual personality (Minus Blathier the best thing to come from XII). A plot with structure, frequent events happening unlike XII where you would troll through new enviroments with no sense of progression or personality.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:43:25 AM

I don't know meng, it's almost as if we played a different game. I got all I wanted out of FFXII. It didn't feel like the previous games but it still felt like an RPG. I thought the story and characters were great(minus Vaan).

I don't mean to harp on you. I just don't understand where you're coming from on this. You seem to appreciate fine films and games for the most part, FFXIII seems odd.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:25:20 PM

Well it just comes down to personal preference i guess. If its any consolation i can at least understand the dissapointment FFXIII is for you through mine with XII. FFVII-X are my favourite games of all time. So when it came to my disspointment with XII it was soul crushing.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:38:56 PM

I do remember having a "what the hell is this?" moment when I first started playing FFXII. But in the end, I actually finished the game and found it enjoyable enough to put over 180 hours into it.

Now that I think about it I can see how people would be put off by the story/plot etc. Seems a little too Starwarsish.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:51:52 PM

Star Wars had charisma though. Other than Balthier, the rest of the cast were lacking big time. B,althier was also very well developed with his backstory. Basch was the typical plain soldier, Penelo the livewire, but she had nothing to do with the game like Vaan. Fran had her hometown, but nothing really came out of that. As for Ashe other than rebelling she was really not memorable either.

Something XII and XIII have in common is the lack of a proper Villian Vaine and Yaag were hardly effcient. Though XII did have the strong present of the Judges, I did enjoy the atmosphere around them.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:59:30 PM

The judges were my favorite aspect of the game's story.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:39:01 PM

The only issues I had with XII was the on field battle system (those should be for Western RPGs only) and the grinding across stupid huge environments.

It is weird how they went from gigantic meandering explorable levels to kill tubes.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:06:03 PM

Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm did the same thing when it too went multiplatform. What a coincidence.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Taha1
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:31:12 PM
Reply

I absolutely hate what conviction did to splinter cell.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

GuernicaReborn
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:58:15 PM

I was so pumped for SC:C, then when I read the reviews and comments on it I never even tried it, and I don't want to. I don't want to play it, it would probably ruin the series for me.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:36:47 PM
Reply

Ben, I believe developers are trying to cater or tap into the Call of Duty generation of gamers.

This generation of gamers seem to enjoy these few things in gaming:

1. Online play
2. Cooperative / Versus split screen or online
3. Short campaigns
4. Quick kill systems

Unfortunately, being the older generation of gamers in our 20's or 30's, we grew up with great RPG's from Squaresoft in the 90's. This created a generation of thinkers, gamers who enjoy planning, strategising and creating scenarios that cater to your advantage depending on how intelligent your plan was.

Only game I'm playing right now that does this well is Dragon Age Origins. It does strategy very well.

Metal Gear Solid required some intense thinking to progress, not about how to kill an enemy fast, or find the bigger weapon, but how to avoid combat, or kill without being noticed, manipulating the environment or enemy positions to gain the advantage.

Sadly, very few games these days implement this. As I said, we are living in the Call of Duty age of gaming, where strategy hardly exists and the players who do well either cheat or train hard to get one shot head shots that requires accuracy and speed, not planning.

While I enjoyed Splinter Cell Conviction, I found it a little less deep than the last entry I played, Chaos Theory. The controls are much more "pickup and play" friendly for newcomers, like friends who come over to play some Conviction co-op. But another friend of mine and I enjoyed Chaos Theory far more because of the large number of gadgets at your disposal and the difficulty of Chaos Theory was far higher than that of Conviction, but it never seemed impossible. Chaos Theory only encouraged us to try different methods of getting to point B without being detected. It was far more clever than Conviction's multiplayer.

Again, Conviction and even FF XIII caters to CoD crowds, while we older gamers are simply left in the dark. I wouldn't say Conviction is a bad game, but I am not a big fan and hardly played the older Splinter Cell games, so I found it easier to pick up and play than previous SC titles. I agree with your FF XIII statement, too far departed from previous entries but still very much a pretty game.

FF XII felt to me like a mixture of FF X and World of Warcraft, and I loved it!!! I found the political plot was very good too, much more mature than at first glance, but did get a little confusing in places.

Only thing I'm looking forward to now is the steady drop in Call of Duty popularity once gamers realise that it's the same game as before and that 60 bucks is too much to drop every year on the same freakin' game!!!! It happened to Guitar Hero (sadly, but thank God for Rock Band) and now I'm hoping Activision kills CoD as well.

Also Ben or Highlander, do you know who it was that said Call of Duty has become the Coca Cola of video games? Very true as it's all everyone at work talks about. Most who don't game regularly only have a CoD game in their collections, or Halo, and that's it!!! Very sad.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:02:46 PM

Actually I don't think the popularity of CoD will wane anytime soon. Case in point: A girl I know asked what the hell it was, and one of the guys jumped in to say that it was the reason that girls would be single for the next year. He then went on to say that he refused to buy more than four games a year, and CoD would always be one of them. People are strange.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

sirbob6
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:58:45 PM

The fact that CoD prevents them from having a mate is a plus as they won't be able to breed and in a generation the twitch gamer will die out

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Kall555
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:36:51 PM
Reply

It's becoming a habit in games today with popular series going down the fail pipe. Resident Evil 5, Splinter Cell Conviction, Silent Hill Homecoming & soon, DmC. All doomed imo.

I particularly hate what became of the Silent Hill franchise. That one stings me the most.

I can't wait to hear the inevitable sh!t storm that is going to rise when Ninja Theory give us more indepth info on DmC.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

GuyverLT
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:23:34 AM

I know I probably shouldn't but I'm one of the few who still has hope for that game to be good.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:34:43 AM

Same here, I still havent completed homecoming, The next one is apparently sticking to the roots of SH2; my favourite entry. But loking at what i have see nso far, i'm not holding hope for it.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:43:20 PM
Reply

Thank God for Bioware!!!

Bioware has become the Squaresoft of the 2000's. Where Square dropped the reigns, Bioware picked it up. Sure, it might not be turn based combat like FF, but Bioware still makes a quality RPG.

Bioware and Level 5 and Atlus. I seriously think Sony should acquire Atlus, and I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 1/2/2011 10:44:29 PM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:07:42 PM

I like Bioware too, but we still need a rock solid JRPG maker. One that can put out more than a single game every few years too.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:11:07 AM

Level 5 is the new Squaresoft. Not Bioware.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

ZettaiSeigi
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:59:12 AM

I think Sony has more chances of acquiring Level-5 than Atlus. I can't really explain it, but that's just how it seems to me. However, Sony acquiring either studious would be excellent news for me. Persona 5 for the PS3? Hell yes!!

With that said, I am still waiting for White Knight Chronicles 2 to be released. Easily one of the JRPGs I would really want to play.

It just occurred to me why Sony would not commission one of their first-party studios to develop an RPG that's similar to most JRPGs the fans have been playing during the PS1 and PS2 eras. I'm pretty sure one of their own studios would be more than capable of developing one.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:29:51 PM

I want to play White Knight Chronicles, but the gameplay just looks really slow, the wait for each attacks seems far to tedious. I heard the story was meant to be hit/miss, but they said the same out Nier and i loved that. Is it true that with WKC2 you get an upgraded version of the 1st game, i wouldnt not mind buying 2 RPG's at once.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:55:16 PM

ZettaiSeigi,
It was called Legend of Dragoon. Didn't fare so well commercially, especially after the massive amount of work that went into it, so no more.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

ZettaiSeigi
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 8:00:07 PM

I remember reading about Legend of Dragoon. It may have tanked commercially, but those who played it seem to absolutely love the game. Too bad it didn't sell well.

Besides, it's a very different situation now. Back then, JRPGs are like today's FPS games. They come out one after another. This time, we hardly get any JRPGs, particularly on the PS3. I bet that Sony coming up with an exclusive RPG would be big news. And I am sure that there re lots of people who would be interested.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 @ 12:53:48 AM

Hope is good, but I think if Sony wants to make an RPG, they need to buy From Software.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:50:32 PM
Reply

Okay, so yesterday I stopped by Blockbuster just to check out their bargain bin deals. Get this, they had games like GoW3, Bioshock 2, Conviction, plus others, for only $14.99 a piece and they were buy 1 get 1 free.
Having recently helped persuade an employee of mine to buy a PS3 instead of another x360 after his RRoD' I thought of his good performance and thought I'd reward him by buying him GoW3--yeah, he wanted that one bad. So I snagged him that and while failing to talk the Blockbuster dude into letting me buy Dragon Age for $20 and get GoW3 for free. He was adamant that the two games had to come ONLY from the $14.99 bargain bin.. DOH! not enough paragon points =p

But anyway, Bioshock scares me so I ended up grabbing SC: Conviction.
As Ben mentioned, lots of stuff has changed. It's a different beast now, I was getting along with the game okay, accepting some of the changes and tolerating a handful of omissions. But holy crap, what's with the Middle Eastern level? It's like a CoD'ish TPS game, complete with an all out shooting gallery to cap off the end of the mission-- a pretty lousy one at that. Anyway, I'll keep playing but I'm sure the CoD craze is a prime suspect for my fav sim/stealth action series taking a turn for the worse. Too bad =(

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 10:54:30 PM

You should have used the Renegade Interrupt, Temjin!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:11:51 PM

I've heard people say they find Bioshock scary, and I could kind of see that. Not scary to me but totally effing sweet with plenty of shocking moments and surprises. Anyway, I don't think you should sleep on Bioshock. I was skeptical because the demo painted it poorly, but now its way up there in my list of favorite series.

And if something did manage to scare me, id buy it just for that!

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/2/2011 11:12:10 PM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:16:43 PM

Never scared by Bioshock, but coming up against a Big Daddy when I was low on ammo always got my heart pumping. I just couldn't resist trying to kill them.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:21:24 AM

PorkChop, lol yeah.

@World, Lawless: I dunno, I've only really played the demo, but the dark atmosphere, creepy half dead looking inhabitants and the claustrophobic feel was enough. While it doesn't seem Deep Space or RE scary (the player feels empowered and not stripped down for survival), it's dark enough to sort of ward me away. I'm not a weenie, or nothing. I used to play many horror games etc. But for some reason when I play those games I feel, both, uncomfortable and have bad dreams. Maybe someday I'll suck it up and try Bioshock =)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:52:11 AM

lol, yeah Bioshock might have colored a few of my crazy dreams.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Kall555
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:28:55 AM

Temjin,

You really should play BioShock. It is one of the most memorable experiences this gen imo & there seriously is no atmosphere in the genre that comes close to BioShocks gory underwater utopia, Rapture. Neon lights, old fashion adverts, art deco, steampunk vibes etc. It's all there, & the music & commentary is bone chilling too partly due to the main villain, Andrew Ryan; one of the most memorable villains in recent memory imo.

The gimmicks from the Big Daddies & Little Sisters add alot to the experience too. This game is very unique & a must for anyone who likes abit of originality in their horror/FPS's.

I am the biggest horror buff i know & i enjoyed this alot, not as much as the Silent Hill family but enough for it to sit in my collection.

You would be denying yourself something special if you miss it.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

HighOnFire
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:00:03 AM

Bioshock is super creepy, but after a few levels with all the weapon mods and plasmids you turn into a complete bad ass. You will feel like Rorschach from Watchmen-Im not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

Last edited by HighOnFire on 1/3/2011 11:00:35 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:40:35 AM

I only played Bioshock recently, I was very interested in the title when it first hit on 360, but i did not get a change to play it. Ayear later it was released on the PS3, i bought it release date for half retail price. But i suddenly lost all interest, why i cannot say. but a couple of months ago i decided to get into it and play BSII and loved it. One of the only FPS i have really enjoyed.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:49:48 AM

I was the same way. I bought Bioshock, played it for a few hours, and got bored. Went back to it later when I had no games to play and loved it when I finished it.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:43:28 PM

I played the Demo and I wrote it off, then much later I just decided to pick it up and bam I was hooked. And Bio2 makes it even better because you get to be a Big Daddy.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:11:19 PM

Indeed. I found the second much more enjoyable. Didn't have the great twist in the story the first one had but the gameplay and the focus on the Big Daddy/Little Sister relationship was very cool.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Temjin001
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 @ 2:52:09 AM

One things for certain, everyone all seems to agree that Bioshock is one awesome game. I suppose I have little to lose to try it. I think the first game can be had, used, for $15, or less, these days.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

cLoudou
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:10:40 PM
Reply

Castlevania Lords of Shadow can be another example. To me it would of been a better game if it had not been a Castlevania.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:13:32 PM

Absolutely, I'm enjoying the game for what it is, but it ain't no Castlevania. But whatever it is, it's a pretty good Lord of the Rings game.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:55:37 AM

Well, funny you say that World, I was always impressed with its presentation. It looked awesome to play.

Some of the scenery I have seen in video and the like look beautiful I have to say. It could be one of the prettiest video games after Uncharted. If it plays well as well, then you have it all...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 8:29:31 AM

When the developers call the music of past Castlevania games ''gay'' I knew this game would be totally different, wish they put it other name and leave the Castlevania franchise be Castlevania.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:48:11 AM

I thought it was a nice and welcome change to the series. Maybe it's because I never cared for Castlevania. SotN is great though.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:14:30 PM
Reply

Why do they do it? The answer should be obvious. They are trying to tap into a fanbase that they simply do not have. They realise that most modern gamers are all about reflexes and online play. They don't think that we want strategy, or to think about what we need to do. It needs to be immediate and obvious, because that is what the world is degenerating into. It certainly has to do with the seemingly shortened attention span of most people due to their busier lives. (I say this, yet I only started gaming this generation, and games like Valkyria Chronicles are some of my personal favourites because it forces me to think. Yeah... I'm not normal.)

One thing I've noticed is that it is almost always the complex games that suffer from these changes: Final Fantasy with the buffs/debuffs/elemental attacks and weaknesses made simpler, the stealth of Splinter Cell being taken away in favour of shooting galleries, the focus of Castlevania, and even GoW moving away from the puzzles and exploration in favour of combat, The 3rd Birthday becoming an almost straight up TPS, and the same goes for Resident Evil. Prince of Persia becoming a game where it is impossible to die.

The examples are numerous. On this rare occasion, I will actually applaud Microsoft for Halo Wars. They took an FPS and tried to make an RTS out of it. Something that actually requires strategy, in an attempt to make the core games appeal to a different audience.

Who knows the real reasoning behind the changes? We are not entitled to know what happens in the boardrooms and creative meetings when the developers sit down to discuss the changes that they will make to their series. I think that most of the time, it is a desire to try out new ideas, but being afraid to see them bomb horribly elect to put them into older IPs in which they do not belong.
Peace.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 1/2/2011 11:18:39 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:27:55 PM
Reply

Street Fighter III

That game ****** up Street Fighter for over 10 years.

It completely destroyed what Street Fighter II created. The focus on space and special moves was gone. It all became a rush-down game and a whole lot of spamming. Now you could just build Super meter by spamming normal attacks, the parry system made projectiles and space between fighters meaningless, super jumps, etc. Then there's the roster of new fighters, no more Cammy, no more Zangief, no more Blanka. Instead we got a bunch of mutant freaks... even the boss was a "Greek god" lol. Anyway, so bad that it killed SF for over 10 years.

I really don't know what drives developers to do this but I'll say that this is the very same reason why I can't tell you how annoyed I get at people who bash sequels. Are people going to bitch that Uncharted 3 isn't "different enough?"

Anyway, sequels are sequels, people should play another game if they don't like the core mechanics/theme of the series.

All sequels must revolve around the core of what makes a game. If they decide to completely throw away what makes that game special then why bother? Why not just make a completely new IP?

I think this happens when devs listen to dumb fans, fans who have NO IDEA of what they're talking about.

I think this also happens when a company leader like Wada are narrow minded and see gamers sheep. Categorizing gamers into "Oh we gotta Westernize and dumb it all down this way and that way."
---

I think it also boils down to how artistic the dev team is. Even real games like Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell can be seen from the art perspective. The core theme behind them being stealth games that focus on extreme situations where patience and understanding the situation is crucial.

I think the SC team just threw all that away and went on name recognition alone. They just felt like making it an action game so that it appeals to gamers who want instant gratification. It's as simple as that really. They think that's the "trend."

Yet that trend didn't help them sell as many copies, I'm sure.

Last edited by Scarecrow on 1/2/2011 11:42:54 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:37:25 PM

The 3D Mortal Kombats did the same thing.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:37:47 AM

I agree, i never cared for any of the other SF games other than II. Until! it was recovered from Street Fighter IV.

As for Mortal Kombat, did you ever play Mortal Kombat 4, it actually was a reasonably good fighting game. the rest were clunky as hell though. I'm this next game will revive it. I ususally hate reboots, but MK is in need nor does it matter after that inconsistant mash up with DC.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:40:20 PM

Yeah I have MK4, it was okay but kind of goofy in comparison to the more serious previous iterations. Actually in my mind, things went horribly wrong after MKII.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Milonakis
Sunday, January 02, 2011 @ 11:57:00 PM
Reply

I think that designers get tired of making the same game. In an attempt to change a few things they get carried away and forget what made them great.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:59:46 AM

They do indeed, but if a formula works why mess with it. FF has a particular attraction for a certain community of gamers... in-fact, quite a large community which made it hugely successful...

Now with FFXIII and FXIV (online) - they have messed it up somewhat, faith has been shaken in the franchise; so how does the developer come back and expect people to dole out more cash if confidence has been shattered...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:20:54 AM
Reply

that award last year should of gone to RE5.
this year it should of gone to splinter cell conviction.
i stand by its still a freaking fantastic game, but it just does not feel like a splinter cell game.
they have turned my secret agent cool headed spy into a crazed out mentalist!
OMFG, its happened kratos has finally appeared on the 360!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

Kall555
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:36:16 AM
Reply

Devil May Cry has been a little up & down as a series when i think about it.

The original DMC was a masterpiece but was followed up by a terrible sequel in DMC2 which took away Dante's "coolness", tossed Trish out the door for Lucia & removed the actual challenge away from the gameplay.

DMC3 was a step back in form bringing back the challenging gameplay along with the Dante everyone recognised from the original DMC. Then we had DMC4 which was solid but got a few kicks in the face for the sloppy backtracking.

Imo the DMC series goes like this from best to worst: DMC, DMC3, DMC4 & DMC2.

I'm expecting the worst with DmC now Ninja Theory has hold of it. Let's hope they don't gimp the game too much to appease the Western audience, because we all know what the result will be if the early interweb bashing is any indicator.

I will however gladly eat my words if DmC turns out well.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:53:37 AM

I'm more worried about how DMC will work out graphically. Ninja Theory shouldn't be allowed to use the Unreal engine anymore.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Kall555
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:04:40 AM

WorldEndsWithMe,

I too hope they can nail the visuals, their previous games looked good but had their fair share of screen tear & glitches so hopefully the same doesn't apply to DmC. I also don't want any rag doll physics in DmC, it just wouldn't feel right to me personally.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 6:37:36 AM

there using the UE3 engine?
i thought crapcom gave them the license to use DMC4s engine.
by far one of the best engines out there, one of the few that actually run quite well on all systems.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:33:07 AM

The DMC series is DEAD. which is a real shame becuase there is no reason at all why there could not have been another sequel. DMC4 was not THAT bad, not at all. Reboots are just a lazy way of killing of a series and trying to make money.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:45:32 AM
Reply

This new "dumb it down" trend going on this gen can only be blame on one thing, that these developers have decided to cater to just one group alone...... they're called the "S.O.M.T."

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Shams
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:55:29 AM
Reply

I'm actually enjoying FFxiii a whole lot. Of course, I can't speak for fans of the series as the last FF I've played was the 7th one when it came out way back when, and I have to admit, it took me close to 25 hours to get to Gran Pulse (even though I got 5 stars I'd say 99% of the battles), and I only started really enjoying it about 35 hours in, and to top it all off, I got it for only 17 bucks.

But, I swear, if I didn't stick to it, out of principle, I would've never found out. I was aware it took a while to begin (most RPG's in my experience take about 10hours just to begin), but at the 20 hour mark, I seriously pondered whether to pick it up again or not. It helped that the characters became less grating (generally speaking), but the visual splendor could't compensate for the corridor drudgery. Anyway, I stuck to it, and I'm glad I did.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:34:34 AM
Reply

Because we cry about innovation. And what do we get? Devs that don't know how. So what do they do? They butcher a beloved gaming mechanism in order to seem knew and trendy.

What they're failing to see is that they can't feed their fans while pulling the chair out from under them.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Shams
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 7:22:05 AM

The battle system of FFxiii is very deep, certainly challenging, especially later in the game, and therefore, not for everybody (it feels like programming at times). Moreover, it's not like it's become a first-person-shooter. So for these reasons, I wouldn't call the battle system "trendy".

Sure, it's asynchronous, not turn-based, but it still requires a great deal of strategy and thought (at least later in the game).

Where the game is seriously lacking as a RPG, in my estimation after close to 40 hours of play, is in the exploration bit. Even in Gran Pulse, besides wondering about to find and battle a particular enemy to complete a mission, or walking a little bit out of your way to grab an item orb, there simply ain't a whole lot of that. The other elements of the game have been engrossing enough for me to enjoy and stick to the game.

This leads me to think the design issues of the game seem to be more of a by-product of something else, than a deliberate attempt to go mainstream.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Godslim
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 7:03:41 AM
Reply

i want them to go back to the ways of ffx how epic was that game! the story i loved it kept me not wanting to stop playing :)
and i like the turn based style gameplay :)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Robochic
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 8:56:48 AM
Reply

@ world want a scary game if you can find it ps2 fatal frame franchise, I finally found the two I was missing, I turn the lights out and put the surround sound on and man it's creepy :)
FF13 must be a crappy game since it's now in the bargain bin for 19.99 @ best buy here in Canada never thought I would see a FF that cheap not even the ds games on FF are that
cheap
Another game to question that finally hit the bargain bin is Naughty bear LOL. 9.99

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:31:32 AM

I'll have you know that the game has entered the Platinum range here in the UK, which is the US equivelent of 'Greatest Hits' So it's not because it is a poor game or becuase it is not selling well.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

ZettaiSeigi
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:06:22 PM

I agree Robochic. Fatal Frame II is *very* scary. It's the only game the I could not play on my own, particularly at night. It makes me so paranoid! LOL

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:43:38 PM

Have either of you played the third one yet, i never got it, but i was wondering if it was worthy of the series?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:47:58 PM

Yeah I did pick up Fatal Frame for my old Xbox and enjoyed it quite a bit. Japanese horror at it's best. We need a next gen Fatal Frame.

Ultima: I didn't know there was a third one.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/3/2011 1:48:24 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oyashiro
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 8:26:50 PM

FF 1-3 are all really good. I heard the newer Wii Fatal Frame that never left japan wasn't that good.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 9:24:49 AM
Reply

People love CoD because it's fast paced, full of action, and you don't need to think. For some reason, it seems people like to relax by slowing down their minds.

I think the types of people who like RPG's relax by getting out of their real world, but not disengaging their minds! My friend and I were discussing this when we met for dinner over the holidays when I visited out east.

The reason we think this, is because we often play Black Ops together online once or twice a week. Mostly just out of being social. And it seems to us, while many people are skilled at the game, most are downright STUPID. I'm convinced it's because they just run and twitch and don't care about the score. We plan and work together. So while others have fun just numbing their minds, we have fun winning and being clever! And using our minds to strategize is fun for us (although not nearly as engaging as a good RPG).

Anyways, my point, I guess is sort of to say that based on how people play CoD online, I think it's easy to conclude RPG's that may require thought will never be something many CoD owners will ever enjoy. It's silly to even try. These dev's need to cut their losses and decide that they will not be able to cater to the popular twitchy market and they shouldn't try to compete. Their sales will be just fine if they make a quality game. There are still tonnes of people who buy quality. Just not CoD-tonnes.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:49:32 PM

All true. My best friend only plays games where he isn't required to think. And yes, he is a COD nut.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:33:57 AM
Reply

Yes I have this problem with Parasite Eve 3rd Birthday, the gameplay was already gold! why change it!?!?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:13:00 AM

Yeah, I was hoping that they would also use pre-rendered backgrounds i miss that style so much. I heard you have access to the JP version, how does it control on a PSP? have the adopted the peace walker controls where you use the X,O,SQ,TR buttons to control the camera? or is it more like portable ops, it really does make the difference.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:06:50 PM

Dude the gameplay is solid! , one of the best tps control , less than a minute you gonna be al rite.

Camera moves a little for itself and when you use the target button you aim the near enemy very smooth, you can also move the camera with the pad.



Last edited by Oxvial on 1/3/2011 12:08:42 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:22:15 PM

Thats a HUGE relief, thank you! :D

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:36:33 PM

Oxvial, How are the controls compared to Peace Walker?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:52:54 PM

Can't really compare, PE now is fast paced, very good at it but not what I really wanted the game to be.

but..I can compare it to you know.. ME.

Damn the irony,but the controls are better than ME.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:00:42 PM

LOL! Sad...considering the PSP only has one analog stick.

Can you holster your weapon? LOL!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:04:15 PM

Heheh don't worry the gameplay is solid, you know when I'm disappoint I really b!tch a lut!.

Last edited by Oxvial on 1/3/2011 1:04:34 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

HighOnFire
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:42:14 AM
Reply

Splinter Cell has been my favorite multi-platform franchise since its first installment. It is the sole reason I bought the first xbox and it is the sole reason I bought a 360. Double Agent was a let down for me, but at least it stayed true to the formula that made it a great franchise. Conviction is the biggest letdown in years to me. I understand that things change depending on the market and "whats popular", but destroying that franchise of what was great (strategy, stealth, multiple ways to handle each situation) to make it accessible for 11 year olds (kill everyone in sight, run fast, clear a room in 5 seconds) was the wrong move. Please Ubisoft, look at what made Chaos Theory one of the best games ever made. Then bring it to the PS3.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 3:09:31 PM

Amen.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

marcusfrommo
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 10:43:33 AM
Reply

efffffff you all, regarding trashing the ps3. Please make a ff13 sequel or expansion to the same or maybe new characters. I'm not talking about ff13 versus either.

Regarding Final fantasy 13 versus and ff14, what's the freakin hold up? Eidos and square merged. From what i hear, nothing has changed. Meaning that Eidos and Square still make there games individually.

The upcoming games headed towards the consoles excluding the wii that I know off from squareenix are mindjack, tomb raider (reboot), duex ex, ff13 versus, and ff14.

I don't know if you know this, but not everyone is into racing games. Regardless if it's exclusive or not. If your into racing games or gt5? Then God bless you. I rank racing games with football and basketball games, or just sports in general.I could care less, i pre-ordered it just because they said at last year's e3 (i think) that it will offer ps move compatibilities.

Are you kidding me with that 11 paragraph article praising or analysing of gt5? And then trashing ff13 literally 12 months after it's been released? Ben admitted in a comment that the ff13 haters should tone down the bashing. Whatever!?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:13:56 AM

Whats your problem? Get lost.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:15:06 PM

Whaaat... the heeeeell?
The article was meant as a defense of the choice as GT5 for GotY. Nothing more.
And this article isn't FF bashing, it's just that it has been well established that FF is a prime example of the point that Ben is trying to get across in this editorial. I believe it is more of a response to Splinter Cell, and the recent news about the change to Uncharted than FFXIII itself.

Calm down and think please Marcus.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:53:16 PM

I think you need to lay off the sauce.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 3:09:03 PM

Calm down and maybe try learning some reading comprehension.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:00:14 AM
Reply

Games have to evolve, i remember Horror games like Resi and Silent Hill, on the PS2, people were complaining about the gameplay being the same. Then RE4 came along and changed horror games into action games...

As for RPG's, Yes Lost Odyssey (FFXII ^_^), was the last 'true' turn based RPG. But even so, reviews whined at it for being the same. So they made RPG's more like World or Warcraf. FFXII addopted it, Dragon Age, where you control one character and the combat was dire and slow. Thats what has put me off White Knight Chronicles.

FFXIII made the battles fast and action packed. the stratigic element was more focuses on timing if anything. switching the paradigms around, some complained that it felt like you had no control, while i felt quite the opposite, in previous RPGs i would rarely find a reason to use all the magic spells frequently, in FFXIII i had to focus all the time, the battles were not a breeze. i actually found it to be one of the more difficult FF games in recent years.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:12:36 AM

Being forced to hit auto heal 10 to 15 times in a row just to stay alive isn't the sign of a stratigic battle system, it's the sign of a broken system. While some games can/need to evolve, FF didn't need that change. They ruined the game for most fans. It wasn't a game or an RPG. It's crappy battle simulator with a crappy story and annoying characters. If I want to simulate anything I'll play GT5.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:16:27 AM

playing XII all i used through out the game was the following
ATTACK!
Bubble
Haste
and Cure.
You did not need anything else at all.

in XIII i found myself using all sorts of buffs and de-buffs.

If i were up to me, yes i would prefer the pre-FFX/Lost Odyssey gameplay, but i can't see it happening and i thought FFXIII delt with it in the most engaging way since for an RPG which is not like Fable or Nier.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:45:40 AM

Did you use Gambits? I turned mine off for the most part which made the game feel more like older Final Fantasy's.

FFXIII, it was nothing but auto battle than paradigm shifts. over and over and over. It didn't feel like I was playing a game. I think I could have gotten over the battle system if they would have given us control of all the characters and not sent you to the game over screen if the party leader died.

Again, don't mean to harp on you. :)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:04:02 PM

No thats a fair point, its the one thing i disliekd about that game, if your lead character dies, it should not be game over, especially if a character has 'Revive'.

As for XII, yes i did leave the gambit system on. I think it's just it controls just like an MMO. rather than an FF games. i would rather have controls of just he menus than controlling the feet of the character aswell. But then Star Ocean 3 you controlled the direction of the character, but i really enjoyed it. to be fair though my gripes with XII arent so much the gameplay, but the story and characters being put in the background to a political plot, which never really occured while the game progressed.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:24:51 PM

Now YOU'RE making me want to play FFXII again. LOL!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 12:31:33 PM

I shall not utter another word lol.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 1:59:40 PM

The problem is all the things you "used" in FFXIII were given via macromanagement. Most FF fans prefer to micromanage.

I found XIII to be one of the easiest as the formula for killing an enemy is the same for all of them. Commando+Ravager to slow down the falling stagger meter, Ravager+Ravager to boost the stagger meter up, then Commando+commando to annihilate the staggered enemy. And if you get in trouble add a medic while sustaining the stagger meter.

This is why I can't figure out why people had a hard time with the boss. I had a harder time with weak enemies cuz if six little peckers decide to gang up on your leader you just get killed and it's over before you can heal. (very unbalanced)

But I disagree with Jawknee on the characters and story, those were pretty good but the story needed more to it. Previous games had all kinds of twists and turns. This story was as linear as the gameplay.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:09:17 PM

People probably had a hard time by the end because they didn't grind enough. That was my problem. FFXIII's monster variety was pathetic. I got so sick of looking at the same monsters, just reskinned with a new coat of paint. Seriously, DQIX has a better and bigger monster variety than FFXIII. blazed through the game without grinding towards the latter half of the game so when I got to the end I wasn't strong enough to beat the boss. I would grind the hell out of old Final Fantasy games. DQVIII too. And it was a blast. FFXIII...not so much.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:31:38 PM

I found that i always had to keep switching paradigms. In previous games i would never have to resort to the magic set on the saboteur paradigm, while on FFXIII i would have to switch constantly. sometimes sentinel was utterly vital for survival.

As for same monsters but with different skins, FF has been doing it for years, i actually kind of like it even though i can see it as being lazy lol. It just felt epic reaching the new version or the Behemoth or Malboro.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:51:28 PM

Yea I know they have, just seemed to be even less of a variety than usual. Maybe due to a certain consoles constraints? ;)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 5:15:18 PM

I still don't understand why people try to play FF's with limited use of magic and skills... ESPECIALLY FFXII!!!

How in the world did you excel and defeat Gilgamesh or other high level marks and secret bosses by only using Attack, Bubble, Haste, and Cure?!??!?!!?!?!

I bet you let everyone use the weapon they started with too, only stronger versions!

People people people... half the fun is making an unbeatable strategy!! I'm telling you!! Give each character their own specialized classes!!! FF7, FF8, and FF12 REWARD you for doing it! FF6, FF9, and FFX (and to some extent, FFXIII, really) force you to specialize, and those games REALLY should have been an indicator of why being well-balanced pays off!

FFXII... don't just use 4 skills... make a tank or two, a damage dealer or two, magic user, healer, red mage. And equip them like they are just those!! Otherwise you have 6 characters who are average at everything! Jeepers, I made Vaan my Tank (most defense and HP by end game) who's primary gambit was Decoy and any skills that generate mass hate. I had Fern Red mage to buff allies and debuff enemies (occasional last resort heal for <20% health and magic attack when MP is abundant), Panello was magic damage dealer, Ashe was my white mage, and the other two fellas were damage dealers via physical attacks!

Did you guys know that staves and wands boost magic attack and magic defense? While light armors, although lack defense, have huge magic defense and boost MP totals and sometime MP regenerative properties? I mean, if you equip everyone properly and plan appropriately, you can do SO much better in battle. Ashe constantly heals the tank taking damage while everyone else goes about their business. All you do is have slight crossover in extreme circumstances to assist a failing class!

In fact, by doing this, I GUARANTEE a boss you lose to at level 50, I would defeat at level 45. So while some people have to grind to beat up the next boss, I just put up my best class combination!

FFXIII I lost ALL of the above mentioned control. ALL of it. Every last ounce of it. It makes you THINK you can make anyone anything, but come on... how many people let Snow be a healer? And there's only 6 classes... And I frigging want Vanille to cast POISON and EFF OFF WITH THE OTHER 6 spells!!!!

Anyways... ya... sorry.

/rant

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/3/2011 5:16:12 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

marcusfrommo
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:13:00 AM
Reply

What do you think of Blue Dragon for the xbox? Gosh, i wish they would make that game for the ps3. Man was that game awesome, and i didn't even beat it yet.

If you don't believe me, play it for yourself.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 11:46:11 AM

I would have liked to play that game but I will tell you my friend who got me into RPG's hated it.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:00:56 PM

If I could risk buying a brokebox I'd play it, but it got very mixed reviews to be sure. People loved it or hated it.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 3:07:42 PM

Bah. It was all right, but Lost Odyssey was way better.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

AnonWTF
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 2:10:55 PM
Reply

Answer to Ben question...

To try something new, be hip with the crowd yo. To see how this goes and help plan on what there going to do in the future.

To be creative. If they don't get creative, then they shall be criticized for making the same game for over 10 years and become the rpg version of koei warriors despite the fact both franchises make more than enough money.

To obtain a different demographic of gamers. To possibly make more money. To go done in gaming history as one of the greats who gave you that owe so awesome ff 13 game. Then finally, TO PLEASE EVERYONE! Or they are just simply running out of ideas...

Well anyways, I hope that answers your question even though you're probably like saying "Well duh, I know this SHIT. What is yo dille yo?!"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Eld
Monday, January 03, 2011 @ 7:20:38 PM
Reply

Because there are no games made by gamers.:(
For people leading these projects, it is not games they are making, it's just goods they can sell to make profit. If they are led to believe they need to do Y to increase profit by xx%, they will do it even though X worked just fine for 15 years.

I agree games like CoD brought this fps frenzy upon us, but ultimately they are not to blame. CoD devs tapped into fps market and made games for fps crowd. And what did RPG studios do? Threw sand in the eyes of RPG fans who brought them where they are today and tried to make games they don't even know how to make.

It's just business, but I would certainly appreciate a little loyalty and I would reward it with my hard earned cash:)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

MadPowerBomber
Tuesday, January 04, 2011 @ 7:21:36 AM
Reply

I do have to admit that there is a great deal of merit in the comment that publishers are seeing what Activision is reaping in via Call of Duty, I don't think that has everything to do with it.

Gamers are changing, that's for sure. My nephews can't play anything with a plot or dialog of any sort, let alone be bothered to participate in it (they skip through all content that isn't directly related to gameplay) and they won't touch games like Dragon Age, Final Fantasy, Fallout, Uncharted, or much else 'cause it's too "slow" or some such. And you can forget it if a game is too "hard".

All of which is really weird to me, 'cause when I was their age, my gaming habits were the exact opposite of what they play.

But I also think it has a lot to do with bad ideas taking precedence over good ones. Which tends to happen in all forms of entertainment across all mediums.

Drastically changing the working, not broken formula of a video game franchise is very similar to the constant remakes Hollywood keeps delivering with "fresh, new, takes" on already established franchises. These remakes are often quick, fast paced, and often directed by music video directors that specialize in the miniature attention spans of the MTV audience. It's also similar to what Marvel did with Spider-Man not too long ago with the One More Day storyline -- a complete backstep to re-write Spider-Man's more recent history by simply erasing it.

It's all done to capture a bit of a new audience and reach out to a much wider scope, I think, and it's a decision normally made by suits, and not creative types.

I think the more successful the video game industry becomes, the more influence the corporate types are going to have over the finished product; and the creative voices that really fuel the industry will have less.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

wizzardofozzy
Thursday, January 06, 2011 @ 4:49:13 PM
Reply

World's post about call of duty summed it up for me.I saw this coming like 4-5 years ago and im glad its not just me that sees it.

The little fiasco with splinter cell upsets me to no end.Completely unnecessary.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Rogueagent01
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 2:34:15 AM
Reply

I can't see why you didn't use Front Mission Evolved instead of FFXIII, though Splinter Cell Conviction was a good choice. FF's have always changed from game to game it is to be expected. Sometimes they changed drastically sometimes in smaller ways but they are always different its been the business model for well over a decade(with the exclusion of Cid).

I do feel like some of the others that artists have far less interaction in the actual development process anymore. The setup for making a game has become almost completely corporate with a few exceptions(Atlus being one). Most companies seem to only care about profits anymore(which isn't all bad, gotta pay the bills) very few are willing to gamble on any new ideas as the costs can make or break a company in todays business world. So rather than try a new IP they piggyback the idea along a known franchise to guage its acceptance. The funny thing about this business model is that if approached in a different perspective then keeping the games closer to their predecessors would make you money. They want stability but at the same time want to shoot for the stars, it is actually kind of sad to watch. And painful as a gamer to experience.

After reading my second paragraph over I doubt this will make sense to anyone but me, lol. God my writing skills are bad.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

Got the Wii U?
Yep, had mine since day one.
Yeah; I just recently picked it up.
No, but I might get one soon...
No, and I don't ever want one.

Previous Poll Results