What Does "Evolved" Mean In Final Fantasy XIII-2?
See Full ImageThe first huge piece of news for 2011 has already arrived: Final Fantasy XIII-2 is a reality.
We don't know much about it but there are two details from Square-Enix's announcement that stand out in my mind:
The first is the fact that boss Toriyama specifically said they would take fan feedback into account. The second is the statement that combat in FFXIII-2 will have "evolved" from FFXIII. The brief teaser trailer they released also has me a little concerned but that's a separate subject; for the moment, I want to focus on that "evolved" term. Given the direction Square-Enix has taken this generation, a word like "evolves" - in relation to combat - absolutely terrifies me. What we consider to be an advancement in terms of an evolving mechanic might not factor in; the question is, how does Square-Enix define the word?
And that's the reason I'm scared. At this point, it seems like "evolved" means faster and dumber rather than slower and smarter. It seems that way because that's the apparent direction of the entire industry, and with S-E desperately trying to cater to the Western audience with every new project they create, it almost appears inevitable: faster and dumber is on the horizon. But wait. There's that bit about "listening to fan feedback." I don't know about you, but I never once saw any piece of feedback that said FFXIII is exactly what they wanted, and I saw a lot of people sorely missing the role-playing elements, like towns. So maybe they'll make it appear more RPG-ish but they'll erase any semblance of role-playing on the battlefield and it'll play like Versus XIII.
If they would only implement a way to pause battle so we could input commands, and if we could only control the other characters in our party, maybe it would actually feel like an RPG. If they adopted the same mechanic found in FFXII or Dragon Age, and gave us our towns and a slightly more traditional RPG format, the fans would be overjoyed. It seems ridiculously simple. But "evolved" in the eyes of Square-Enix may indeed translate to "faster and dumber," despite their claim of listening to feedback. ...and if that happens, count me out. For the time being, though, I'll be optimistic and remain at least partially excited.
Related Game(s): Final Fantasy XIII-2
Tags: ffxiii-2, final fantasy xiii-2, square enix, final fantasy ps3
1/18/2011 9:09:28 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (65 posts)
shadowpal2
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:37:53 PM
Well FFXIII-2, I feel like is truly going to be another "action game." I mean you guys saw the trailer right? I mean she pulls out a sword, and then she gets into a fight with another guy with that sword, having swords clash, while having the lead character dressed in a pretty provocative way, and having some kind of electronic rock music in the background just SCREAMS...ACTION GAME.
But I guess I'm sort of glad that FFXIII has a sequel.
But what made me more glad was that I actually saw battle gameplay footage of FF VERSUS XIII. YESSS!!! YESSS!!!!
I like it...and yes it's not like the "Final Fantasy" we knew, but I expected it from the very 1st trailer of 2006.
I mean it said it was going to be made by the KH Team. What did you guys expect? The world of VERSUS XIII looks pretty sick. I'm liking the characters from their dialogue especially.
Last edited by shadowpal2 on 1/18/2011 10:38:10 PM
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TheCrazyMerc
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:52:36 PM
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CHAOS THEORY X
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 11:07:36 PM
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Scarecrow
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 11:51:42 PM
1. Control 2 characters at the same time with the two analogs. One character using the left analog and the other using the 2nd analog.
a. Attack with your first character using the left shoulder buttons
b. Attack with your 2nd character using the right shoulder buttons
or
2. Team up with friends online to play story mode with you.
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Ultimadream
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 6:56:57 AM
before i saw the trailer, i thought it was Lightinings alter ego, but obviously its that guy(?) from the trailer. There bound is obviously going to be important to the game. Like many of us , I really want to see more and i'm sure as it is coming out in Japan by the end of the year we will get frequent updates through out 2011.
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eLLeJuss
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 9:48:56 PM
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Vitron
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 9:50:20 PM
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Atleast they're taking the fan's insight in this.
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CHAOS THEORY X
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 11:09:34 PM
however due to how horrible FFXIV went, they might actually be considering fans now
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Kowhoho
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:24:19 PM
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6 up, 0 down
Ultimadream
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 7:18:33 AM
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Bonampak
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:32:11 PM
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The ones that supported this franchise from day one... or the ones that have yet to jump into this franchise? And thus the need to dumb-down the experience to make it accessible for mainstream non-gamers.
Sheesh!
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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:34:10 PM
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I guess I'd call that devolving, but that's what fan feedback says to do!
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Alienange
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:26:40 PM
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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 5:56:16 PM
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shadowscorpio
Thursday, January 20, 2011 @ 12:15:29 AM
However, give us an actually Final Fantasy where we actually get to manage even the basic things that make a JRPG what it has always been and you can by all means leave us with the HP that the enemy left us with after a kickass turn based ATB battle.
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Sogi_Otsa
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:53:41 PM
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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 10:54:21 PM
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Evolved mean that Square button is for light attack, Triangle for heavy attack, O for Magic and X for Jump.
L1 for aiming and R1 for shoot.
Now that's evolving!!!
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Vitron
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 11:56:33 PM
Last edited by Vitron on 1/18/2011 11:56:43 PM
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keybladesman
Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 11:58:30 PM
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You want linear? Go play Mario. Now THAT'S linear.
2 up, 6 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:03:02 AM
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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:27:08 AM
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keybladesman
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:59:48 AM
0 up, 5 down
kraygen
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:01:10 AM
4 up, 1 down
keybladesman
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:07:43 AM
0 up, 3 down
johnld
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:22:35 AM
let me add a couple of things to that list.
dont limit my level progression by story progression and allow me the option of being godlike in the game. i mean putting a level cap on the crystalium based on the story. along side leveling up on that crystalium doesnt make you godlike in the world unless you get certain armor and weapons was too much of a pain. in previous FF titles we grinded to get higher levels. it wasnt necessary for the story but we at least had the option to do it. It also helps in enjoying the battles if were not rushing to press buttons when its FF13 combat speed. i barely got to enjoy the battles because i was looking at the battle menu most of the time. I spent a lot of time farming that damn giant turtle till i maxed out but he can still trample me as easy as he did before leveling up.
also, and this is a big one for me, let my damn party members cast revive or phoenix downs on me. i mean why were they able to learn it but cant use it on a critical time on the main party leader. to add to that no revival thing, there were enemies that can 1 hit kill you if you're not careful.
@kraygen
yeah, i think it is his first final fantasy game. a lot of loyal fans of the series were pissed with ff13, me included. carrying the name of final fantasy carries some weight with it. if you're going to use the name then there are high expectations concerning those loyal fans. I agree with ben, FF13 is a great game as a stand alone game. however, because they it was a numerical final fantasy iteration, it set itself up to be a failure for the franchise.
@keyblade
by the look of your picture, you are still young so you wont easily understand the reasons why we series veterans feel that FF13 wasnt up to final fantasy standards. i have played every final fantasy game on home consoles since the ps1 and loved all of them, i liked 13 but it still is a disappointment. Out of all those games, final fantasy 13 is the only game in the series that i wont replay from the beginning. hell, i'm pretty close to a platinum trophy in FF13 but i just cant bring myself to go back and play it.
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keybladesman
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:32:16 AM
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Lawless SXE
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:38:43 AM
Peace.
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Ultimadream
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 6:52:42 AM
I have read some of you reasonings, some justified, most absurd. But you can't go around picking on someone, judging like that because he enjoyed a really good game, even if it did not fit your requirements, your becoming barbaric.
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spiderboi
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 8:40:22 AM
Same for FF. Sure, people can go on all day about ATB's and turn-based and how FF13 was not all that. That's fine by me. But also remember some relatively new FF iterations that was warm received even though it was different, but felt the same. Crisis Core, anyone? Perhaps maybe to the same reasoning that a lot of FF fans disliked FF:Spirits Within movie vs FF:Advent Children, because it "felt" Final Fantasy. Peace!
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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 8:56:37 AM
I think if you visited this site often enough, you would recognize that not only has this site's reviewer said time and time again that it's a great game on it's own, but alot of people say that.
I myself did a user review and gave it a good score because I recognize that on it's own, it's a really great game!
HOWEVER,
You cannot expect people to agree with you that it's a great FINAL FANTASY. It does not live up to the expectations of the franchise nor does it resemble it.
So yes. You are correct. It's a great game. But it is not as great as other FF's. In fact, it's a whole 10 points out of 100 worse than the average FF. (Which still sits it at 8.3/10 on average, which is a good score!!)
At any rate, I liked it too. Platinum'd it in fact, as I've said before. But I not only played the series, I grew up with it and I still play to this day former FF's! So perhaps nostalgia plays a role, but it is not the same experience as past FF's.
Lastly, no one here wants a carbon copy. No FF has been a carbon copy. There are general elements to the genre and the franchise that are always or should always be upheld, but they all have their own twists. We've seen Materia, various job systems, junctions, sphere grids, license boards, weapon/armor based abilities, skill-based levels, etc. etc. The gameplay is always new, but important features like exploration and freedom and the many other things mentioned by others already, were left out entirely. And they weren't just basic ignorable features. They were features that traditional FF fans typically look forward to and look for in such titles. Remove those key elements, fans are going to be disappointed.
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FlyingKickPunch
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 6:00:26 PM
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keybladesman
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 8:54:15 PM
Especially to WorldEndsWithMe. I'll be using your list of what FFXIII is missing elsewhere. You hit all points right on the spot.
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booze925
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:04:27 AM
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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:55:36 AM
NO.
What do you think we're all always complaining about?
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johnld
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:30:51 AM
3 up, 2 down
Ultimadream
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 7:17:53 AM
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BigBoss4ever
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:15:15 AM
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BikerSaint
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:18:37 AM
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Evolving or Devolving
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kraygen
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:09:34 AM
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Then they act completely baffled by the outcome, now they're claiming they are listening to fans, except they never have before and don't seem to know what we want anyway, so forgive me if I don't get excited.
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johnld
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:32:57 AM
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Vitron
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:09:47 AM
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Sigh...
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Lawless SXE
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:18:55 AM
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I think the key factor for S-E is to slow the combat down, and get rid of the lead character insta-fail. Give us time to consider the best moves to use, and ways to utilise our buffs and debuffs, and perhaps switch control to a second character if the first falls.
As far as we know though, evolved could mean the eradication of the ATB system completely, leaving us with something entirely real time. Would not be happy Jan.
Peace.
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johnld
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:26:45 AM
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why the hell does square enix go out of their way to cater to the 360 crowd when they know that they probably wont buy them. if there was a halo, cod, or gears game that came out in one year, all other games take a back seat.
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___________
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:37:36 AM
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after that atrocity they call XIII i wont be touching this with a 50 foot pole!
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Jutter
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 2:46:48 AM
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bloody_rootz
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 4:17:24 AM
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Akuma07
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 5:41:37 AM
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Ultimadream
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 6:44:48 AM
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FFXIII's gameplay was fresh and exciting, the focus was more on the paradigms and the staggers. I found myself using far more varieties of magic, buffs and debuffs in XIII than any other FF game actually. If you did not like Auto battle, you could go into config and start the cursour on attack below it so you would not always be starting on auto-battle.
I think it's important to keep the focus on the menus and not using the d-pad to control the character, on Versus gameplay trailer i saw a bit where he was dodging missiles in battle with the d-pad, it did not look like an FF, or even an RPG, but an action game. Iknow other than that Versus looks good but i think it's important to just point that out.
If FFXIII turned into an MMO styled game it would just completely contradict the style of XIII, it would be fine if they did that in XV, but as XIII-2 is a direct sequel to XIII, it should have a similiar style of gameplay.
But the most important thing about XIII is that the story is so well structured, i never felt bored playing XIII becuase something was always happening. In XII, you would run through landscapes, temples, even villages and towns and frequently no events would happen, it felt like a big waste of time, there was no objective. I don't want FF to ever be that bland again, XIII cured a wound, each character had charisma, even if some went on the annoying side, you could not call them dull and soulless people, unlike XII, apart from Balthier they were all empty and Shallow.
What i hope for XIII-2:
- It does not go down the route of X-2 and become immature and girlish (it was immature, i am not complaining at 3 female protagonists.)
- Towns, maybe, in all honesty i was so into XIII's story i actually did not miss towns.
- Shops, one thing i disliekd was the shop system at save points, that was a bit harsh, i also hated the gil system, it took forever to get gil to upgrade the weapons.
- Gameplay... Other than getting rid of auto-battle, no i was very happy with the gameplay. Maybe give the team a chance to revive you when you die before game over.
- Story, Consistant, please do not make the how game slide of focus completely from the previous game untill the ending (X-2)
- More side-quests, Although i did like the Missions, I found them a good challenge, aswell as getting a platinum on the game took 110 hours over all, far more time than i have put into any other game this gen. They even had fun tributes to the series. I felt far more determined to do them than on XII, Which other than the missions does not have anything really either so why the sudden moan at XIII for that?
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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 9:08:39 AM
I can see why you might think FFXIII is fresh, but it isn't fresher than XII and it's far less complicated, which to me is a negative aspect.
I felt FFXIII was FAR too easy. I platinumed it in just a little over 70 hours. A lot of hours were merely grinding out gil. Now, I fully support a game that requires you to EARN your gil. I don't want gil to be easy to come across.(Something I appreciated about XII) But at the same time, I really wish there was a reason to need gil before wanting to platinum the game. XIII was unbalanced in this regard. You could beat the game without needing too much gil. Any gilhunting I did was AFTER I beat the game. And I beat the final boss with 5 stars first try too. Even the toughest Ci-eth stone wasn't hard to figure out. You just needed to be fast.
Sephiroth? Kefka? Ultimecia? Kuja? Ex-Death? All definitely took me more than 1 try, let alone mastering the fight on the first try. lol (Mind you, anytime I replay any of those games, I can beat them first try, but that's cause I know what to expect)
That right there is a sure sign of XIII's simplicity to me.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/19/2011 9:11:18 AM
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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:38:02 PM
And the reason the fans didn't react anywhere near as harshly to FFXII as they did to FFXIII - despite the fact that XII was definitely a departure - is because it was still an RPG. If you want speed, don't play RPGs. If you want brainless combat, don't play RPGs. In FFXIII, I could easily go through any given battle just by hitting the X button over and over, thanks to the game selecting the best possible action. That's not an RPG; that's an action game.
I also have no control over my party members; there is NO role-playing game boasting a party theme that doesn't at least let you issue commands to them during battle. The purpose of PAUSING in combat is for the player to assess the situation, use different strategy, and proceed accordingly. The idea that such depth is included in ALL real-time mechanics is one I've always hated, because it just isn't true.
Dragon Age and FFXII are RPGs for very pure and obvious reasons. I find nothing pure and obvious in FFXIII that tells me it's a role-playing game. It's an action/adventure game with a few RPG elements.
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Looking Glass
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 7:12:48 AM
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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 9:48:38 AM
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It's easy to find FFXIII for $20 now. If you look hard enough you can find it for less.
Even used copies of Heavy Rain are over $40 still. Brand new, you'll be hard pressed to find it any cheaper than $50.
Why?? Everyone has sold their FFXIII copies to used game stores. Heavy Rain owners aren't so quick to give that title up.
I think that's another indicator right there.
Last week at gamestop, I saw only 1 used copy of Heavy Rain. There were at least 8 copies of FFXIII for PS3 alone. (I didn't look in the 360 section)
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Temjin001
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 9:58:43 AM
PS3 gamers had better not be selling that one or Kratos would be angry =)
BUt anyway, I do think resell value has a lot to do with supply and demand. Let's say you have a game that sells 5 million units and a game that sells 2 million units and let's say (pulling this out of thin air) 25% of new games sold become recycled as used. That's 1.25 mill vs 500K
The value of the 500K game is greater because it's more scarce and a game reseller is probably not as desperate to offload it.
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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 10:10:31 AM
You could argue replay value being a factor, but Heavy Rain doesn't REALLY have much replay value. I do think, that while supply and demand plays a big role, I also think people are more likely to hold onto that title than something like GOW3 or FFXIII. Just because of the uniqueness of it.
Obviously the one store I visited isn't nearly a large enough pool to evaluate, but 1 vs. 8 used copies doesn't fit the ratio either. I would be interested to find some obscure stat about actual used resale numbers.
The motivator for my comment was me recalling reading something from a while ago about FFXIII copies in Japan being sold back shortly after release. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's why I didn't mention it originally. But it's the main reason I posted anything at all.
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Bonampak
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 10:24:47 AM
The reason why you could've found so many FFXIII used copies lying around GameStop, is because said titled as well as God of War, are high profile titles that attract more MAINSTREAM gamers. Unlike Heavy Rain, which despite being one of the few truly innovative games out there, didn't come close to selling as much as XIII or GoW did. Maybe because it wasn't a game that catered to mainstream gamers. So it didn't get purchased a lot by them. And thus why you rarely see it used at Gamestop. Because most core gamers bought it and won't let it go.
Mainstream gamers usually buy the popular games. And when they get tired of them, they get rid of them.
That's my theory on this matter.
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big6
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 10:44:48 AM
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Western gaming public.
That said, it'll probably mean the fighting will be more like Versus XIII. There will probably be more fighting and less exploring (because they think we don't have the attention span to explore).
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hehateme
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 10:52:37 AM
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I expect a world of warcraft mixed with DMC mechanics (this is by no chance good for final fantasy) I honestly don't see why they can't make these games with a different name... why tag the "final fantasy" name on a game that resembles nothing like prior final fantasy games. They do this simply to gain more sales and screw over the fanbase when they fork over 60 $ just to find out how bad the game is
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Alienange
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 12:33:03 PM
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Emerson
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 1:37:39 PM
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For those of us who are in our early 30's - early 40's and have been with FF for along time now, come on. You're telling me you can't make decisions on how to take down an enemy that quickly? Could they have made it better, yeah give me R1 to change to any party member in battle. I hardly used "auto-attack" ... most of the time it was a matter of pride not to use auto-attack to take down a "large" foe.
As for the overall composition, give me the towns back please and thank you, and give me more "open" world. For those who want to heal up after battle, I kinda like not having to deal with "mana". If you don't have mana, you dont have to heal up after battle, it's implied. Level-capping, eh, take it leave it I dont really care never really became a problem for me, those extra roles kept me busy for a long while.
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kokoro
Wednesday, January 19, 2011 @ 6:03:16 PM
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Last edited by kokoro on 1/19/2011 6:03:51 PM
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Oyashiro
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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 @ 9:32:06 PM
On topic - Hopefully not the same as it meant in Front Mission Evolved.