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THQ On New Consoles Too Soon: "Bad For Everybody"

While we're already starting to hear whispers about the next generation of consoles, many publishers and developers are hoping it's a good ways off.

Take THQ, for example: core games boss Danny Bilson says quite frankly that the arrival of the PS4 and Xbox 720 within the next three years would be "horrible." During a Eurogamer interview, Bilson reacted strongly to the possibility of all new hardware within the next few years:

"It would be horrible. But I think they all know our model's broken anyway. It still costs us a fortune to make games on this platform. If they're going to up the scale, up the art, up the content, I don't know how to make that and sell it to anybody for under $100 a game.

Who wants to do that? It's bad for everybody."

Right now, he says they've finally gotten to the point where they "understand" the consoles, and now they need more time to get "creative with them." In other words, designers don't have to waste a lot of time going, "oh my God, how are we going to deal with that new technology?" They can focus on the artistic; the creative; in other words, their overall vision. Added Bilson:

"That's the trick. We're not going to get beat by another hardware upgrade like every five years like it was before. There will be little things. It's up to us to compete in graphics and creativity. Sometimes I hope good creativity and style will be able to be more important. It is more important.

As long as we're creatively satisfied as gamers by what we're getting, I'm really satisfied. I still see cooler stuff, better stuff. So much is in the software engineering and working with the technology. I look at games and I go, wow, how did they get such great characters?"

Well, we all know it takes developers a while to get comfortable with new hardware, especially when it comes to Sony and the PlayStation. For the time being, we're perfectly happy with waiting four or five more years before another console arrives...but we have a feeling the PS4 might drop a little before that. Remember, we're over 4 years into this generation already...

Tags: ps3, xbox 360, wii, playstation 3, new consoles

1/23/2011 8:38:25 PM John Shepard

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Comments (133 posts)

Veitsknight
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 9:43:04 PM
Reply

Nintendo might need a new console for hardcore gamers. The others can keep their consoles for 5 more years.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:25:41 PM

The Wii made so much money, they should release a Wii2 or HD or whatever and then invest some of that cash in a true next gen console. Maybe they could push MS to the bottom of the pile with some better hardware.

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NoSmokingBandit
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:38:00 PM

Nintendo doesnt want to make a console for the hardcore gamer. The reason the Wii exists is because Ninty knew they couldnt beat both MS and Sony in a battle of the most powerful console, so they went for the casual crowd. And it worked better than anyone could have predicted.

I dont care if my wii games are in HD or not. A higher resolution doesnt make a better game. Mario Galaxy plays just fine in 480i, and it is more fun than most of the big titles on the 360 and ps3.

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NoSmokingBandit
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:38:00 PM

Posted twice somehow.... ignore this.

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 1/23/2011 10:38:15 PM

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AcHiLLiA
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:05:11 PM

Nintendo is fine where they at, them focusing on the younger crowd is a big selling point.

Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 1/23/2011 11:11:25 PM

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Bonampak
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:34:42 AM

Nintendo is the only company that will probably release a new home console within the next 2 years. You can bet the farm on that.

So we & game companies can only hope that said console is only as powerful as the current systems.

That way, all 3 consoles will be on equal footing and devs will finally develop games for all of them at once or whatever.

However, if Nintendo develops a system even more powerful than the current next-gen systems, that could be the spark that starts the next generation of consoles.

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Neo_Aeon666
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:34:21 AM

@ NoSmokingBandit

*A higher resolution doesnt make a better game.*

Thats true but now we are talking about a console that can't even output at the default resolution of a now standard screen (720p or 1080p) and you are getting very bad and blurry graphics compared to if you hook it up to an old crappy TV.

Now that the majority of people upgraded to HD the Wii is losing much of its appeal.

And it even lost to the Kinect in exercising / dancing potential and to the Ps3 in precision.

The nintendo Rep from our store was crying this winter. We sold for 20 000$ of Wii VS 70 000$ of PS3/move and 77 000$ of Kinect/Xbox...

It's not with their 2-3 Mario DK Mickey games per year that they will keep people coming for their VERY out-dated machine XD

So yeah I expect Nintendo to come with a solution REALLY fast because there is absolutely no good reason to buy a Wii nowadays. The PS3 or 360 does a much better job in all aspects and are now very affordable. The few Wiis we sell are to Mario-Dk-Mickey-Metroid-Zelda fans and we all know they were always the short end of the stick ( compared to the 85% beeing kids for Dora and Diego or ladies and families for dancing/exercising... Now all gone to PS3 move or Kinect for a much better experience )

And I am not making this up... Ive been selling systems for 2 yrs in the biggest store in Montreal. Wii used to be a hit but got killed when HD started to take more space and destroyed when kinect/move came out. I know 1 store might not be representative of the whole country but it is still a good indicator when our yearly budget is well over the combined budget of all the other Future Shops in Quebec ( more than 12 others ).

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 1/24/2011 1:43:37 AM

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:09:59 AM

Nintendo will almost certainly be first out of the gate with the next generation console. That being said, I think it will act more as a gateway than being IT. They have thus far made a killing on the Wii, and are set to repeat this success with the 3DS, but no-one can deny that the Wii is an aged console, and now that the other two companies have released *better* motion sensing controls, it's high time for the Big N to skip ahead by half a step.

No doubt they will release a new console, with perhaps a body suit-type motion control, that is magnitudes more powerful than the Wii, and will undoubtedly be enough to topple even the PS3 from its lofty perch. In addition to this they will have something else up their sleeves to garner the hardcore audience than their tried and true franchises (or at least I hope).

I firmly believe that the announcement of this new console, whatever it's called, will be before the end of this year, in order to combat the increasing obsolescence of the Wii. This, in turn, wil cause a knee-jerk reaction from M$ at least, as they realise that, once again, they need the jump on the competition, and will likely release the 720 within 8 months of the Uss (Why not?). Sony, I believe will remain somewhat confident in the PS3, and will wait at least until 2013 before releasing the PS4, but that is not to say that they won't unveil it beforehand.

Both of the other two companies will be trying to create something that will put the devices of this generation to shame in every way, as well as further increasing their online reliance.
Peace.

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:24:13 AM

I started with Nintendo and Sega Genesis and then moved to Sony. Microsoft I simply saw as a detrimental figure whom did not use the same business methods as the previously mentioned. I can still respect Nintendo even though I support Sony now.

If Nintendo came out with a HD system I would be supporting both Sony and NIntendo. These two are more closely related than people think...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:24:48 AM

High resolution may not automatically make for a better game, but look at it this way-

Super Mario Galaxy 2 in standard resolution.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 in high definition.

Same game exactly; res is the only difference. ...which one is undeniably better, and which one will you take?

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NoSmokingBandit
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:41:57 AM

I agree, Ben, but people like to bash the wii saying its a useless console because it isnt HD, which is just stupid.
In a way, the lack of power in the wii resulted in some great titles. Something like Kirby's Epic Yarn would have never happened on the ps3 or 360, but its one of the best platformers this gen, imo. Being restricted makes the devs rely on gameplay alone to sell a title instead of technical merits.
Most articles about new games involve what kind of technology went into it, the updated engines, etc, but barely anything about making the game pure fun.

Nintendo doesnt need to make a Wii HD before Sony and MS make their next consoles. The Wii sold well enough that Nintendo doesnt need to rush out a new console just to pick up sales. They should take their time and make a huge leap ahead of Kinect/Move.

Nintendo didnt make a console that requires power to be appealing, therefore they dont need to increase the power to keep up with anyone else. Let MS and Sony have the most-powerful-console pissing match, Ninty is going to do their own thing and make more money than MS and Sony combined.

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AnonWTF
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 4:36:21 PM

I think everyone is forgetting wii is beating both xbox360 and ps3. It is also killing in the handheld wars. DS is selling more than twice as much as the psp. Matter of fact DS is number 2 on the best selling consoles of all time (number one in handhelds). With ps2 being number 1 and lets not forget the ps2 has been out longer.

I believe nintendo is in the position to just sit on their asses and do nothing...

All I got to say is, I don't really care much for new consoles (excluding handhelds). Just give me video games. Sony, get your arse in gear and make that awesome psp phone combo. 3ds is going to be hawt! Microsoft shouldn't even try to compete in handheld market. I don't want to see that fail 0.o

----End of rant

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Neo_Aeon666
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 8:51:55 PM

@ AnonWTF

You should read before posting. Were not saying Wii wasnt succesfull were saying it is outdated and has not much to offer anymore compared to the competition... And that is true.

If it goes on like this might we see nintendo porting to PS3 ? :D :D :D lolll

Btw dont like your End of rant self absolute power granting and I hope you receive divine retribution >:(

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 1/24/2011 8:56:16 PM

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AnonWTF
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 9:00:43 AM

No, because it is successful it doesn't matter how out dated it is. It can keep going as is despite any flaws it has. That is all I'm saying.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 9:28:07 AM

@AnonWTF
But Sony's system is the only one seeing a growth in sales year over year. We've been discussing the --fact-- that Wii sales are beginning to decline.

And they are. You cannot refute that. You also cannot refute that PS3 sales are still improving year over year! And lastly, you cannot refute, that from a technological standpoint, Nintendo is light years behind.

They will likely be successful no matter what, but if they wish to stay on top, some changes need to be made.

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AnonWTF
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 9:08:06 PM

I would never refute that it is out dated. It just doesn't matter at the current time because they are still going to be on top for a while. Instead of making a 1.5 upgrade just focus all efforts onto next gens console.

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ZettaiSeigi
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 9:44:46 PM
Reply

I am still completely happy with my PS3, so I am not too keen on a PS4 very soon. And I agree with what he said that most developers are just starting to familiarize themselves with the current consoles we have right now, particularly the third-party ones.

Aside from that, the PS3 already has Blu-ray, 3D support, Move, and PSN games are really starting to shine. I honestly think the PS3 is the only future-proof console this generation. That said, I really do not mind if Sony does not release their next console as soon as Nintendo or Microsoft release theirs. (Did that make sense? LOL)

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Bugzbunny109
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 9:57:02 PM
Reply

I honestly wouldn't be suprised if I saw an xbox 720. Now, because technology is advancing, Xbox has lost it's momentum. It's just maxed out due to certain hardware limitations.

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Temjin001
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:05:00 PM
Reply

THQ is smaller than EA, Activision, Ubisoft and Square Enix. I think in THQ's case many of these statements are circumstantially oriented. We've observed over the last several years that as development escalates, smaller companies are getting wiped out, or are having to alter their position in the market place. I'm sure EA and Activision would speak a different story--like I said, circumstantial. The top dogs who control the masses will further solidify their presence in the market by being able to outstrip any competitor in terms of sheer marketing strength. A large stream of THQ's revenue comes from largely wrestling and UFC games. EA, on the other hand, has their hand in a lot more markets. They can more easily survive the "survival of the fittest" process. And the fittest, my friends, will love reveling in market dominance.


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Alienange
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:14:04 PM
Reply

This reminds me of an article you wrote once about gamers being selfish because they desire backwards compatibility in their systems.

If a PS4 came out tomorrow that was compatible with PS3 games, wouldn't developers like this just be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want to take that further step into the more powerful hardware or not? If they so choose, couldn't they just keep making games at the PS3 level on a backwards compatible PS4? They would still be rather fantastic game don't you think?

Lord knows those developing on the Wii don't give a damn about hardware specs. The games sell themselves. So yeah, Sony can come out with as many systems as it wants, but if they're not backwards compatible, then they will frustrate both gamers and developers.

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Scarecrow
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:25:20 PM

If ps4 came out with ps3 BC and THQ or any other company decided to opt for making ps3 games their games will NOT sell alongside ps4 games.

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NoSmokingBandit
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:39:02 PM

Yeah, nobody bought ps2 games after the ps3 was released.

Oh wait...

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 1/23/2011 10:39:09 PM

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Scarecrow
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:13:25 PM

Oh wait...

Care to provide games which sold at least 1 million copies?

Most ps2 releases were small releases.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:59:49 PM

...I don't remember writing that.

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frylock25
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:08:30 AM

but Ben, wouldnt he have been asking John Shepard? you know since he wrote this one...

or did you just slip up ;)

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:29:12 AM

@Frylock,

Or perhaps he was answering for PSXExtreme in general rather like some people use the the Royal 'we', when answering for themselves and others.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:27:57 AM

John didn't write anything like that, either...

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Underdog15
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 11:19:51 AM

@Scarecrow
There were a few. For starters, GOW2 sold over 1 million.

FF12 released only a month before PS3 here in NA. But PAL and INT releases came out post PS3 and sold over 1 mil.

But aside from a small handful, you make a good point still. Sales are nowhere the same post PS3.

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Temjin001
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:22:38 PM
Reply

As for my opinion on new consoles. I'm torn. I always love being excited over newer, more powerful hardware, and I'm sure the technology is there for a company to market something that is significantly more capable then what we have right now. But I still can't help but think that there is SO MUCH MORE the PS3 can do right now. The PS3 was something of a slow starter, but now that everything appears to be firing on all cylinders, I'm plenty excited for the steady stream of incredible titles making their way onto store shelves for this year alone. I'm also in a financial position that couldn't make many allowances for a new system and newer full price software.

And I love that gaming has reached it's sweet spot for me over the last year when I can pick up tons of great, slightly older, games for $10-$20. There's no drought or lack of content to feed my appetite.

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:36:40 AM

I personally feel that the majority wasn't tapped into the PS3 when it was priced at 600 bucks. We might want to reavaluate. Say, when the PS3 slim was introduced at a reduced price for the first time and go from there.

I'd say we have plenty of years to go before the new consoles come. Lets keep in mind that this gen developers had issues with the PS3's architechure and Sony had are rough start with the Playstation demographic. Just because the PS3 as been around for 4 plus years doesn't mean that we should consider that what went on in those years is comparable to what went on in previous console generation years.

Therefore this generation needs to be looked at quite differently in my opinion.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 1/24/2011 3:39:05 AM

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Scarecrow
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:27:58 PM
Reply

Consoles are not needed for at least 2 more years. 2013-14 should be when a new one should come out.

THQ's right, look at how many companies (mainly in Japan) opted out to keep making ps2 and psp games.

From Software (Demon's Souls creators) are really small, they wouldn't be able to keep up.

The cost of games alone is a big problem. I agree with this Bilson guy. Unless you're willing to start paying $80 per game we should stretch the lifespan of these consoles a bit more.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:32:05 PM

It's pretty astonishing when you think that we are paying about the same amount of money now that we did for games fifteen years ago or more.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/23/2011 10:32:11 PM

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:45:19 AM

I'm fine with keeping this current gen's consoles. I would rather not rush the developers. When they are confident, we gamers get their best product. I feel there is no need to rush.

IMHO, it would be a spit in the face to the current gaming generation of consoles if a next generation of consoles was introduced in even 4 years. 2011 is the first year Playstation fans (from what I see) are finally getting really excited. Who's to say we can't make this gen memorable for a multitude of years?

We gamers will love getting the most out of our hardware until developers really feel that they are capped. Until then, and only until then will we need a new and greater from of hardware.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 1/24/2011 3:47:21 AM

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Drake_RB3
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:48:53 PM

Yea, I remember buying Chrono Trigger and Illusion of Gaia on SNES for about $60.

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:19:45 PM

Amazing how things have changed. You can't really even find original nintendo games anymore. Do you think that we will be around when the same happens for PS3 games. Will it ever happen with the PS3? Who can tell at this point.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:31:08 PM
Reply

I think they started talking about the PS4 within two years of the PS3 releasing. That made me mad. I think the cost of making games means that each console generation is just going to have to be longer than it used to be.

I mean c'mon, most multiplatform developers still can't even make their game run without a bunch of technical bugs on current hardware. Imagine how bad the glitches will be on PS4.

Regarding MS, they just need bigger Media. Something like Blu Ray (since according to them Blu Ray is nonessential) Maybe they can try their all Digital Distribution model out next gen.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:37:28 AM

Despite their seeming like for digital distribution, Microsoft, as a company, isn't stupid enough, or perhaps brave enough, to be the first to make that leap. I mean, do they even release full games on Live, as Sony does on PSN? They wouldn't make such a large jump without precedent.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:29:33 AM

I believe the 360 had full games available to download via Live well before the PS3 started doing it.

Halo 3, Gears of War, Batman Arkham Asylum and many others were full game downloads provided by MS around the same time they rolled out the major system update, you know, the one with the overhaul changing from the blades navigation setup to the screens (the version we have now).

The only reason I do not download full games via Live or PSN is because of the download limit of net provider, I do not own a physical copy of the game and I can generally get a physical copy of the game much cheaper pre-owned than the digital version.

Only games I've bought digitally are smaller indie developed games or games off Steam, which are ridiculously cheap during sales.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 11:59:03 AM

Huh... Why did I not remember that?

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:29:41 PM

DanceMachine

PSN has always had the ability to do full download games. WarHawk was available - for example - either on BluRay or PSN in September 2007.

XBL has a very strict limit on the size of game that can be hosted and downloaded.

PSN doesn't have a limit on the size of game that a publisher can distribute via PSN.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:25:52 PM

@ Highlander

Very true. Warhawk, MAG and now Mass Effect 2 have joined the ranks of same day disc and digital releases.

I didn't know about the size limit of 360 games on Live. Does this mean that Mass Effect 2, Lost Odyssey and FF XIII won't ever be available on Live? Where did you hear this from?

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:36:19 PM

I think that MS might have relaxed their limit over time, but I'm not sure that it's been completely removed. Here's a news story from 2008 where they increased the limit to 350MB. I remember first hearing about it because Criterion Games had a terrible time finding a way to fit their DLC for Burnout Paradise into the old 150MB limit.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/22/xbox-live-size-limit-upped-to-350mb-price-limit-to-1600-ms-poin/

Apparently MS lifted the limit to 2GB last year. But that limit is still causing issues. Oddworld could not appear on XBL because it has a 2.1GB size. So it was to be PS3 exclusive because of that limitation.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103839-Size-Restrictions-Keeping-Oddworld-Off-Xbox-Live

I believe that the original reason for the limit was the amount of memory available on Microsoft's HDD-less 360s. If they heavily limited the amount of space required for an XBL title, people without an HDD could still purchase games off XBL because they'd fit on a memory card.

Needless to say with 360 Arcades coming with 4GB of Flash now, that limit can be higher.

finally, I found this quote from MS

"The 2GB limit is a technical limitation of the system being used. Games on Demand, a section of the Xbox Live Marketplace where you can buy full retail games to download, uses a different file structure and so that limitation does not exist."

So, I guess they are stuck at 2GB.

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Dancemachine55
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 6:12:06 AM

Interesting read. Thanks for that Highlander.

It makes sense that On-demand games be separate from Live Arcade games, but with the size limit, it really doesn't surprise me that so many indie developers or major companies are opting towards the PS3 for the platform of choice for downloadable games and content.

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bigrailer19
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:50:51 PM
Reply

I don't care to see a bew system til at the earliest 2014. This guy is right it's far too early. Every year we see something better, and personally until we see a plateau affect I don't mind one bit what I'm looking at right now! My PS3 is used for everything I do. I don't need cable anymore because I got vudu, hulu plus, and netflix. And it's cheaper monthly to go that route. I pay roughly $20 a month for hulu and netflix and get everything I need. Rumor has it that netflix is shelling out major bux for hit tv shows to be on their watch now list (we'll see). When I feel like it I can listen to music, and so much more. Not to mention play my blu-rays and video games as well! ;)

Point is even though the PS4 will do all that and more most likely, I'm not ready for it. Nor do I need more right now or in the near future (like in the next 2-3 years). I ussually look forward to the graphical leaps a console has over the other. That to me is what sets te consoles apart. We've got so many new features since the PS3' release I assume we could expect the same out of the PS4, that I dont see a legit reason to release a new console soon. Along with my graphics statement, games are still looking and getting better every year. When that slows maybe then I'll want a new console.

EDIT: also one last thing. I don't want an inflated price. Release the consoles at the right time at the right price.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 1/23/2011 10:53:07 PM

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:52:01 AM

Absolutely big

Just the same piont I'm making. I think some might disagree with me but I really believe that the sweet spot of this console generation is only just begining. Let's work with what we have now and maybe we will have a successor to that of the PS2 gen.

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BikerSaint
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 10:57:48 PM
Reply

I hate to say it(and hear me out first before replying), but my thinking is that Sony should offer MS BluRay for their next bot-box.
But....only do it on the condition that MS signs a contract to never again buy any multiplat, DLC, or other timed exclusivity, ever again.

That way, if MS were to get BR too, then there would be absolutely no reason or excuse coming from any developer for any more PS3 games to ever wind up gimped again, due to MS's "lesser disc-abilities".

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TheShadow
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:17:57 PM

The funny thing is...If microsoft actually signed that contract and got blu-ray for next gen, they will think their console will be albe to hold as much data as Ps3 and broadcast that everywhere saying who needs the next playstation....BUT, what's funny is that the ps4 will have a bigger Blu-ray type drive...I heard rumours of a disk being made with a Terabyte of space by Sony.

Wouldn't that be funny:

720- 50GB (Finally)
ps4 1000GB/Terabyte

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bigrailer19
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:59:19 PM

M$ has said they don't need nor want blu-ray so let em' think that. Also i don't care about exclusive dlc. I know it sucks that they do that and we've had to wait but I've come to realise goty editions are so much better to purchase. Also if the developers want to make excuses let em! They shouldbt bottom line, but they'll soon realise what they have to put up against if they keep doing that, if they havnt already. I think most all developers have seen the glory that is uncharted 2.

But I completely see where your going with this. And although I love exclusives ad they obviously are the games thatshine the brightest in most cases. These developers need to do exactly as you mention biker saint, with these multi plat games.

Btw you pointed me in the direction of borderlands goty edition the other day... Thanks for that! ;)

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 1/24/2011 12:05:19 AM

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:21:16 AM

Microsoft can use BluRay in their console anytime they want to whether Sony wants them to or not. Sony does *not* control BluRay, it's controlled by a third party industry association which Sony is only one member of. All MS has to do is pay the exact same fees that every other manufacturer pays and they can do what they want.

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___________
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:22:11 AM

thats never going to happen, M$ going blu would mean M$ admitting they were wrong and never in their history have they done that!
hell will freeze over, gravity will disappear, ill win the lottery long before M$ adds blu in there next console.
plus its not necessary yet, look at ps3 games.
hell GOW3 once you remove all the dummy files is only about 8GBs, no bigger than a 360 game!
if your going to go mega resolutions than ok, but ATM its just a complete waste.
not to mention the drives are so slow, which is why almost every game requires a half hour install now.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:55:29 AM

MS have been quoted in the past for wanting speed, not capacity in consoles.

When the 360 first launched in 2006, MS replied to arguments about the use of Blu-ray, saying that while the storage capacity was good, Blu-ray was seriously lacking in disc speed, with the laser technology being a slower spectrum colour of blue as opposed to the DVD's red laser. This meant that the PS3 could fit more content onto a disc, but gameplay would be hampered by long load times.

In this day and age, Sony made a risky but successful choice sticking with Blu-ray. Sure, we might have to get long load times unless we install data on the HDD beforehand, but at least gamers are now given the option of an install. (Devil May Cry 4 caused a lot of controversy after all with the mandetory half hour install when 360 players could play the exact same game straight away)

I think the logical choice for Sony regarding the PS4 would be to perfect faster reading blu-ray disc technology or simply create a red spectrum high capacity disc that reads at 8x like the 360's DVD disc yet maintain the 500 GB capacity of a next-gen disc.

I believe Sony releasing the PS4 before the next-gen Xbox wouldn't be a bad idea because of several reasons:
1. More games on the market compared to the competition.
2. Faster movement towards price cuts with aging technology.
3. An immeidate install base would provide competition in regards to online multiplayer gaming, eg. Billy the rich kid got a PS4, so all his friends get a PS4 to play online with him.

The PS3 is a highly advanced piece of technology, but unfortuantely there were a lot of shortcomings surrounding the console. Perhaps using the PS3 architecture but fixing the hardware problems or amping up certain aspects like RAM, blu-ray disc speed, GPU and CPU communication, would allow the PS4 to be backwards compatible with PS3 YET be new enough to be considered a next-gen console.

In all honesty, I think a PS4 release in 2013 and no later would be a very good idea, especially if they aim for price and timing over technical prowess. Look at the PS2!!! The original Xbox and Nintendo Gamecube had far more powerful processors and capabilities than the PS2, but the PS2 was cheaper and had a larger library of games early on in the competition. This solidified the PS2 as the console of choice last gen, and even though certain multiplat games played far better on the Xbox and Cube, that didn't matter!!!

If Sony wish for success with the PS4, they need to apply the same strategies they used with the PS2. Except marketing, use the PS3's marketing strategy with Kevin Butler.

If the PS4 is backwards compatible with your digital and physical media library of PS3, DVD's and Blu-rays, I say release it ASAP at an affordable price ($449 US anyone?) and get a jump on MS' next piece of red ringing crud.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:34:54 AM

Hey No-name, either get your facts straight or piss off troll.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 1/24/2011 6:40:53 AM

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Neo_Aeon666
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 9:54:59 AM

Lol you know I also own a 360 and regardless of the game I have to wait 20-30 mins for installs because it pisses me off to hear its noisy drive.

Not only that but if you dont install the games, live in an appartment and start jumping with kinect and make your 360 move on its not so stable shelf... Itll kill your disc right away.

Id rather have a 2-5g small intalls on my ps3 disc for faster access to important data and a very quiet system than that noisy 360 with 10g an install for games... Heck I got 10 games on it and only got 159g left on my 250g HDD.

And you also talk about things you don't know crap about... You wish GoW would fit on a puny 8gb disc but it will never heck they had to split english and french versions due to lack of space for the lossless audio. 360 was always a piece of crap console with outdated DvD format. Noisy and unstable. I know I own one but thats because I love halo gears and the likes lol not for that awful machine deprived of any quality.

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 1/24/2011 10:05:30 AM

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Simcoe
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:35:49 AM

@Dancemachine55
I agree with you. I have a few friends that decided to get a 360 because they had a brother or other friend that got the 360 at launch.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:57:37 PM

The speed of light is the same, red or blue. Microsoft's BS about speed of optical discs was simply a tactic to discredit Bluray at a time when they supported a competing technology. If you want to go look at the basic performance specs of BluRay, DVD and HD-DVD you're welcome to do so, there's no great advantage with either DVD or HD-DVD. The inherent 'advantage' that DVD has is that 48X drives exist for it. But that's tempered by the need to change discs....

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BikerSaint
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 11:10:32 PM

bigrailer19,
Yeah, I defo see where you're coming from & I agree!
A console of lesser disc-abilities" should NOT have no bearing on any PS3's games getting gimped. But unfortunately, some developers are still doing so by taking the easy way out. And IMO, MS is still sh*tting oceans of money "out the wazoo" at them to keep it that way too.
But hopefully eventually, even the sheep will begin to see the light & demand better made games by just not purchasing crap.
BTW, glad you were able to get the Borderlands GOTY copy. I just wound up breaking my own GOTY rule on that one & picked up the regular Borderlands, but only because I got it so cheap. But once I win a bid for a GOTY at the price-point I want, I can still re-sell my regular copy cheap & make a profit off it

To all replies,
I know Sony's only 1 of the group, but I was more of the thinking that Sony would have the most pull and/or influence if it came down to a vote(that is, if they even vote on that).
Oh well, it was a good thought for a few seconds anyway, LOL

Last edited by BikerSaint on 1/24/2011 11:11:26 PM

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BikerSaint
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:10:47 PM
Reply

As for this article, I agree 100%.
Although the bus has already came & went for the other 2 consoles, the PS3 is just starting to hit her stride with many more triple-A+ years still to look forward to. And I'm sure even more media & gaming services & products are looming in Ps3 pipeline.

Plus I only have room left in my livingroom for 1 more console, that's about the size of a Genesis=3, so I don't want to go ahead and start tossing out my furniture just yet.
But I figure by 2013 or so, I should be just about tired of my sofa's pattern, LOL.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:13:17 AM

You need a bigger house, mate.

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BikerSaint
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 11:13:00 PM

Lawless,
LOL!
No, I really need to move into a warehouse, with a gazillion electrical outlets, plus solar panels & a few wind turbines to "free power" everything.

But even then, I'd still need someone willing to make me at least a dozen 10-console sized selector-switch gang-boxes just to piggyback them all together. Or I could just buy a separate TV for each one so I'll have enough input jacks.

"Damn, I really DO need to win my state's Powerball or MegaMillions big lottery jackpot"

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AcHiLLiA
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:15:41 PM
Reply

way to early especially for Sony. Sony has a 10 year life cycle on the PS3. Don't talk about it until it's 2016. For Microsoft I just want Nintendo to beat them up BAD.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:04:55 AM

The PS2 had a 10 year life cycle, yet the PS3 arrived exactly 6 years after the PS2's launch.

I believe the PS4 will release 2013 or 2014 at the latest, and with all the news about Sony working with developers to create this next-gen console, I welcome a new console.

Can't be any worse than the PS3 launch or the E3 2007 conference, can it?

Now, before you start thumbing down, allow me to explain.

The PS3 got off to a bad start, high selling price, Blu-ray vs HD-DVD war, a year later than the 360 launch, poor advertising, etc etc.

If Sony were to address issues with disc speed, RAM capacity, GPU and CPU communication AND make it friendlier for developers to make games for, I would be more than happy to welcome the PS4. Backwards compatibility and a launch date well before the competition would solidify it as the console of choice.

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AcHiLLiA
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:28:41 PM

nah, I'm not going to thumb u down. Yes, Sony did launch the PS3 in 2006 and it was damn expensive, as I remember too that they were losing $250 on every console they sold for the 60gb model. And yes I hope the PS4 would be fully backward compatiable.

Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 1/24/2011 1:30:04 PM

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 12:10:24 AM

I just feel the need to mention a informational tidbit here for those who don't know this...

People may have complained about the PS3's original price of $699, but it's still not the most expensive console to have come out.

Most people either have forgotten, or are just too young to remember this, but when the 32 bit 3DO first came out in NA around Oct 93, it had a original $799 release price for a short while. But then quickly it dropped to $699.

It did manage to sell about 2 million over it's few years with 7 variations made by 3 different manufacturer's, Goldstar, Sanyo, & Panasonic.
(I own the super-sleek Panasonic FZ-10 model)

Last edited by BikerSaint on 1/25/2011 12:18:57 AM

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PasteNuggs
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:43:14 PM
Reply

Everyone I hear THQ talking about stuff I like them a little more.

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kraygen
Sunday, January 23, 2011 @ 11:51:22 PM
Reply

One thing I don't understand is, how come all the guys at THQ seem to have the right idea's about gaming and it's world, but can't seem to make a triple a game?

Explain that in a way that makes sense.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:27:33 AM
Reply

If, and I say *if*, the other major publishers agree with THQ about this, and if they have any sway with MS/Sony/Nintendo, MS is screwed. The PS3 is a year younger, used primary technology that was considerably closer to the bleeding edge than the 360, and clearly has a greater longevity than the 360 does. No one believed Sony when they said HD was necessary and that the console had a 10 year life span. Now HD is a necessity, and the thing does 3D besides. With all the extra functionality Sony has added, the PS3 is well placed as is to continue to be an extremely viable platform for new games for 4 years or more.

The PS3 arrived 6 years into the life of the PS2. I've always felt that the PS3 had at least 7 years before a successor would arrive, possibly even 8 years. The fast pace of evolution in technology does threaten that, because technology in general has caught up with and surpassed the PS3. Even if it was 6 years though, we wouldn't see a new system until November 2012. I can't see anyone wanting to launch a major console in 2013, which takes us into year 8 of the PS3's life....

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Bonampak
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:42:22 AM

Nintendo WILL release their next home console within the next two years.

The Wii will finally slow down this year and Nintendo will be forced to announce the new system if not at this year's E3 then later on in the year. And it will be unveiled in 2012.

I simply do not believe that they will wait out until Sony and MS respective game consoles life-cycle ends before they make their next move.

Especially when they will face greater competition this year on the motion control front (once the Move and Kinect start to get better game support)

Last edited by Bonampak on 1/24/2011 12:44:43 AM

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:00:14 AM

The trouble For Nintendo is that unless they have a brainwave powered controller, all they can really do is play catch up with Sony. I agree that they will be under more pressure to jump first than Sony or MS.

Last edited by Highlander on 1/24/2011 1:00:53 AM

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Qubex
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:49:24 AM

Highlander, I always felt Nintendo was the dark horse in this race. I wouldn't underestimate them. They may come out with the most desirable powerful console yet to secure their top spot. I just wouldn't discount them in a world where there is almost a cult like following for Nintendo as their is for Apple. The Nintendo crowd will always support Ninty, no matter what they bring out...

If they throw a curve ball and do something special in HD, you can bet your bottom dollar, it will be something special.

I agree with one of the posters above, who cares if the Wii has sub-HD graphics. If the game is good, plays well and oozes quality all around, it is still worthy to have in the collection...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:18:38 AM

As I mentioned above, I think that the next logical step for Nintendo would be to take motion controls to a whole new level. The key to this, I feel would be something akin to a bodysuit, and you may say that Kinect is already more or less capable of that, and you would be right. The thing is, having motion sensors attached to each major joint in the body, as well as the fingers would allow for much finer control than Kinect. Of course, it would be cumbersome for users, so perhaps it isn't such a viable option.

I don't know, I just get the feeling that Nintendo has a massive evolution lined up for the motion sensing that they popularised. And considering they will have been working on it for more than four years already, it should be coming soon.
Peace.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:16:47 AM

I don't believe that there is a massive leap in motion controls left to take. It becomes increasingly expensive to do as you add more, and more cumbersome.

They can't go higher than 1080p, 3D is already being done, BluRay and HD downloaded video is in the PS3, wireless networking, wireless controllers, Internet connectivity, remote play with a hand held, etc...

Seriously, apart from catching up with Sony and MS, what is Nintendo going to do, produce a Wii that reads minds? I've no doubt that the loyal Nintendo fanbase will buy it no matter what. But, anyone here who knows technology knows that there is really not a lot left to do with motion controls in the home beyond where MS and Sony have taken things.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 4:55:34 AM

You're right, which is why I sort of recanted what I wrote towards the end there. The problem I have with your reply, Highlander, is that you make it seem almost as though there is nowhere further for home consoles to go, at all, except graphical and AI improvements. It seems a rather negative outlook if you ask me. I defer to you, as you are clearly far more technologically in-the-know than I am, but surely, SURELY there is another step for the home entertainment medium to take, without the need for holographic VR.
Peace.

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Qubex
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:03:58 AM

I still think Nintendo will do something that will surprise everyone... and if they do... and tickles Sony's balls with something ball shattering... it can only be good for the PS4... Sony will have to come out with something unbelievable good next time...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:16:57 AM

I'm thinking that Nintendo will collaborate with 3DS technology and bring it to an all new HD console. Whether through wireless integration, enhanced motion controls, refined full-body camera tracking that surpasses the Kinect, Nintendo will not just do a simple HD upgrade.

Either that, or Nintendo might just pull out of the HD console race and settle to dominate the handheld market. A lot of fans will cry, but many companies have done similar things, Atari and Sega come to mind.

However, with the popularity of the Wii, I highly doubt they'd just pull out. But I am sure they'd do something really different rather than just upgrade to HD.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:54:19 PM

@Lawless,

The limiting element is the display. Until the next wave in display technology arrives, there's no driving force to move consoles or home video beyond 1080p. And to be honest, 10890p on most home sized screens looks freaking good, so I'm not sure what more we could do.

It's not negative at all really, technology shouldn't drive the games industry, the games should. As long as compelling experiences are still possible with the technology we have in PS3 and 360, there's no pressing need to update.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 12:38:41 AM

Lawless,
As far as a bodysuit goes, IMO I can't see Ninty spending tons of money on R&D alone, just to make a suit

But, here's already a company making a gaming body armor suit(I had posted the site, vid & pics to Highlander in some thread somewhere back around early 2010).
And at the time they already had a working prototype for the hand/arm parts, & were about to work on the rest of the toro & leg plates.

Damn, I wish I could remember which thread I posted it in, just to see what they've accomplished on the whole final suit build by now.

Now, if the price was right, I could see Ninty trying to stake themselves into that company to pick up an already made suit. But that's only if Ninty want's to look way into the future of gaming, & only if they want to really innovate.

Anyway, that's just my 2 & 1/2 cents....

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eLLeJuss
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:11:42 AM
Reply

I expect to see it from nintendo;

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___________
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:19:17 AM
Reply

not everybody, i would love to see what ND could do with uncharted 3 if they had a new kit to play around with.
i dont think new consoles are as far away as these guys make it sound.
the wii and 360 are starting to look dated, and the ps3 has been hacked to bits so sonys going to be rushing the ps4 out to fix that.
i just read a article saying there thinking of going keys only like PC has.
like thats going to help!
what happened to ubisofts "impenetrable DRM"?
o, yea thats right it was blown open and removed little over a week after AC2 came out!
as the saying goes where theres a will, theres a way!

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:20:37 AM

As good as the device may be, the price would be absolutely exorbitant if Sony follows their practice of using TRULY next-gen hardware in their consoles. Realistically, the same goes for the other two as well.
Peace.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:23:21 AM

But here's the thing, 3D is considered the next big thing in home entertainment next to high definition, and the PS3 can already do that.

3D market penetration is still in its early infancy, so I can see the PS4 only being a highly refined yet cheaper than launch PS3 thats integrates online functionality and 3D as hardware specific, not software driven like firmware updates have allowed the PS3 to do.

The PS4 will more than likely perfect and implement HD, 3D and online social networking into the hardware as opposed to it being software driven, and seeing as the PS3 can do this already (through software, not hardware), this may make the PS4 cheaper and more readily available than the competition.

I might also add that the current problems with the PS3 being hacked might force Sony into releasing the PS4 earlier than planned, especially if what the hackers claim is true and the only way to fix the problem is through hardware reconfiguration, not software or firmware updates.

Highlander, I would love to hear your thoughts on this and whether or not you have read any articles about this?

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 1/24/2011 6:26:44 AM

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:38:02 AM

I already told you no-name. Information is one thing but copping an attitude for no good reason is another. Knock it off.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:58:29 AM

First of all, to say that the PS3 was "hacked" is a little inaccurate. The PS3's security was bypassed, not actually broken through.

Nevertheless, the system has indeed been compromised.

But whether or not this truly will accelerate the development and release of the PS4 I think depends largely on how well Sony fares in spite of all that. I've argued this before but I think the PS3 will do well in spite of being compromised. The platform has millions of loyal fans and the vast majority of consumers don't care about pirating.

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___________
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:38:43 AM

im not saying they should release a new console, they most certainly should not because it would cost a pretty penny and consumers are not ready to upgrade.
that does not mean i dont want a new one though.
yes the ps3 can do 3D, but not full HD 3D.
go spend 3K on a gaming PC and you will see the difference!
one thing i can see making a big part of the ps4 is cloud gaming.
have everything instead of being installed on your HDD, have it installed on sonys servers and users can stream it from there.
especially game saves and game licenses that way if your console goes belly up you dont loose everything.
TV functionality might also be built in, would be nice to get rid of play TV and have it built in.
auto HD upscaler would be nice too, that way you can play your PSP, ps1,ps2 games in HD in full screen.
one reason why i dont play PSP games on my TV, it just gives me a tiny screen gets really annoying!

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Neo_Aeon666
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 9:59:46 AM

The PS3 does full HD B Ray 3D for movies little one.

Now gaming is another thing but 90% of the games on the market are 720p upscales anyway. If you don't stick your face 5 inchs to your tv and are more like 6 feet from it you will not see the difference. PS3 or 360 for that matter are meant to be played from a reasonable distance in your couch. They are also much more affordable than paying 300$ a year for a medium-high end card... Unless like some people you had to buy a few 360s lol...

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 3:01:04 AM

Um....Anonymous Cowherd....

Dude, the PS3 already autoscales PS1 and PS2 games, you just have to select the appropriate options. The PSP connects via composite video, and your TV should autoscale that - assuming it's an HD set, which is sounds like it is. So I don't know what it is that you think you're missing. I mean, autoscaling is simply enlarging the picture, it's not quite the same as up-resing something where you add detail. scaling adds no detail. But you can't exactly auto-up-res a PS1 or PS2 game.

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H8WL3R
Wednesday, January 26, 2011 @ 11:12:35 PM

I'll not speak for anyone else, but I'd rather not hack/pirate anything, especially without express permission to do so from the owner of said person/corporation. I also much prefer to have an original copy of something (heck I still buy music CDs occasionally and then rip it). I also would rather support devs and Sony in general (thus I've also primarily bought official Sony accessories for PS2/PS3). So to cap it off I sincerely hope you are right Looking Glass about the multitude of loyal Sony fans who do not hack and/or pirate, nor have the desire to.

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A2K78
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:27:14 AM
Reply

A new console soon? Both Sony and Microsoft are still bleeding from the PS3 and 360. To futher add it doesn't help at the fact there is a shrinking console base thanks in part to the average consumer spending their money other forms of entertainment/technologies.

As for developers, they are in the worst position ever thanks in part to ballooning development cost. Its for this reason why a $100+ million COD, Gran Turismo or Final Fantasy isn't far off.

"PS3 is a year younger, used primary technology that was considerably"

The PS3 might be younger, but its consumers base is shrinking(as with the 360) because the average consumer is spending their money on other things.

If anything, both Sony and Microsoft doomed themselves by having expensive consoles and we're just now seeing the effects. As for Nintendo they need not to worry given the fact that the Wii and DS have been a very profitable business for them.


"THQ is smaller than EA, Activision, Ubisoft and Square Enix. I think in THQ's case many of these statements are circumstantially oriented. We've observed over the last several years that as development escalates, smaller companies are getting wiped out, or are having to alter their position in the market place."

um, its not just smaller companies who are getting wiped it, but larger ones as well. Why do you think rash of consolidations in Japan in the past? To to further add if the merger of Activison/Blizzard and Square Enix/Eidos say anything, its the fact the indusry is in for more mega-sized mergers and I wouldn't be suprised if we see EA going down this route because it will happen.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:25:30 AM

Wrong. Both MS and Sony are turning a slight profit on their current gen consoles, due largely to software sales. MS has NOT yet managed to turn a profit on their overall gaming division because of the massive black hole caused by the original XBox.

Where do you get the idea that the user base is shrinking. Logic dictates that, as the price drops, more people will be picking up the consoles, thus INCREASING the user base. Your argument that there are other gaming devices cutting into the console sales is ridiculous. They are leagues apart, and anyone who wants a console will eventually buy one, in much the same manner that anyone who wants an iPod/iPad/iWhatever will buy one.
Peace.

P.S. Has anyone ever told you that you REALLY need to find the reply button?

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 1/24/2011 2:26:04 AM

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:18:20 AM

For a shrinking consumer base, the PS3 posted 30-odd percent growth in software sales last year. Remarkable.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:50:08 AM

I think to say that smaller companies are getting wiped is only half true at best. Companies like Gust, Atlus, and Idea Factory are smaller and they are doing just fine.

I've said this before but how much money a company spends on a game is entirely up to them, advanced tech or no advanced tech.

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Jawknee
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 9:50:55 AM

Lawless, he's been told about the reply button. Post after post he seems to have trouble finding it.

AK, why do you come here? Seriously, you come year and spout nonsense you know isn't true. MS and Sony aren't turnig a profit? Why do you spout nonsense you knows NOT TRUE?! knock it off troll.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/24/2011 10:29:44 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:26:31 AM

It's just your standard anti-corporation, anti-big business, the industry is doomed garbage from a college student.

Of course, the numbers in no way support any of the claims but whatever. Just ignore it.

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A2K78
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:32:37 AM
Reply

"Especially when they will face greater competition this year on the motion control front (once the Move and Kinect start to get better game support)"

Why should Nintendo be afraid of both Move and Kintect when both seem already on the path of being made obsolete?

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:19:07 AM

By what? Or do you believe in pixie dust direct interfacing with the brain?

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 4:31:37 AM

By the USS Enterprise's Holodeck, I imagine.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:38:16 AM

Over 2 million sales for Move and over 4 million sales of Kinect, and you think they're obsolete?!?!

With Sony being the only console to meet year over year growth, I'm afraid I fail to see the logic in your argument.

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Qubex
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:52:17 AM
Reply

I would be happy to purchase a PS4 tomorrow, if it was x4 the power of the PS3, even if it cost my $800 dollars... the issue I have is I don't want Sony to lie to me and start removing features like they have done in this generation.

What happens if they remove PS3 backward compatibility or promise features that once again will be removed over time :(

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:42:40 AM

Removal of backwards compatibility and Other OS features certainly were a huge blow, and very bad moves on Sony's behalf.

I'm hoping the PS4 sticks relatively close to the PS3's structure to make it a little easier for developers to wrap their heads around, allow for PS3 compatibilty AND keep the launch price down.

As I said above, more RAM, higher disc speed or faster loading times without installation, a faster processor (or more Cells), better CPU and GPU communication, a 500GB standard HDD and hey presto! The PS4.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:19:56 AM

Somehow I think that it's a safe bet that the PS4 will be purposely lacking the "OtherOS" option right from the very beginning. But I suppose that counts as not removing it.

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Kall555
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:57:56 AM
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I am all for new consoles, but i personally don't think we need them right now until the consoles have peaked & ideas run dry. The PS3 has alot more hidden juice in it yet i feel.

As for Ninty, here's hoping that Nintendo's new console is more about fresh new IP's & more tolerable visuals other than stone age gimmicks & copious amounts of shovelware that is churned out on a regular basis. It's good to cater for casuals, just don't forget the other crowds you could cater for, the hardcore crowd rings a bell. Not everyone wants to sing with Hannah Montana & wave their arms around like a tit just so a ball moves on screen.

Don't get the wrong idea, i am no fanboy zealot git riding M$ or $ONY's corporate c***, i'm just not a fan of Nintendo's direction. Imo it is in serious need of new tech & some newer, better IP's. Until that happens, i won't be jumping on the bandwagon anytime soon.

Last edited by Kall555 on 1/24/2011 2:04:26 AM

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:32:23 AM
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Honestly, I think that he's right. I mean, a new Nintendo console wouldn't be all that bad, as it would likely be a catch-up console, rather than something that will leap ahead.

For Sony or Microsoft to release a new console would be devastating. Not only would it likely cost far more than even the launch PS3, but it would create a black hole for devs as they struggle to create new games for more powerful hardware to which they are not accustomed. This would serve to push up dev costs, and along with it, shelf costs to make up for any losses incurred. I think that, no matter what happens with the next generation, it will ultimately come down to the requirement of almost every game to be what we would now class AAA, just to make sure that enough people will buy it to cover costs. This will likely be enough to shut down a ton of developers, and leave only the megacorporations who have the money to fund projects that will consistently cost $100 million + to create.

And then the price to the consumer would simply be too much, and it would quickly spiral out of control leading to another crash of the games industry. Then, they'd have to start all over again, with games on par with this generation. My god, I can rant.
Peace.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:21:04 AM

A notional PS4 using twin PowerXcell8i chips with an updated RSX based on Fermi would not break the bank in development, not cost a bomb to develop for, and be backwards compatible with the PS3, and be anything up to 4 times faster in nearly every respect.

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Lawless SXE
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 4:44:19 AM

Huh... Maybe it's simply because I'm running on the train of thought of Sony creating entirely new, future-proof hardware, as they have in the past that I thought that. Looking at it as a potential evolution, rather than revolution does have a way of bringing it down a few notches in the cost department.

But either way, you can't deny that many gamers demand more cinematic games, and the required CGI will serve to force the dev costs up, as will the need to create entirely new engines for use with the consoles, for the most part. Older engines simply can't cut it when placed up against newer ones, take a look at the differences between Bioshock 2 and Batman: AA. Unreal 2.X vs 3, and it's clear which one dominates when it comes to the visual performance.
Peace.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:50:03 AM

I was thinking more along the lines of the difference between Unreal Engine 3 and CryEngine 3.

Here's the hardware breakdown of what graphical and effects settings for Crysis 2 each console will run on.

360 - lowest graphics setting
PS3 - medium to high graphics
PC - Insane graphics designed for high end PC's of 2012.

I believe the PS4 could benefit with CryEngine 3 optimisation, or whatever id is cooking up with RAGE.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:50:11 PM

@Lawless,

Without a major reason for a radically new hardware platform, why would Sony need to create such a radical departure?

PS1 was not fully capable of 480i resolution games. The PS2 drove DVD and had the ability to use the full 480p resolution that SDTV is capable of. The PS2 was therefore driven by both a resolution upgrade and a new media. Plus it took the first steps onto the network and the inclusion of an HDD.

The PS3 bumps the resolution to 1080p, includes an HDD as standard, has BluRay, and built in networking with an online service. 3D and motion controls have been added to the existing unit resulting in a complete solution at 720p/1080i/1080p resolutions. The weak point in the PS3 is 1080p gaming. That requires so much GPU/CPU that few games truly manage it.

We're still in the middle of the move to HDTV, so 1080p resolution is here to stay for a long time. Therefore the video game console doesn't have to cater to resolutions above 1080p. 3D is being introduced and it appears it will stick around to. The PS3 already supports this.

The PS4 will be about building on the PS3 and improving it's support for the existing technologies. Because resolution is capped at 1080p for now, that's all the system needs to be capable of, so the GPU will have to be capable of FSAA and AF at that resolution without the assistance of the CPU. So you're really looking at an upgrade that requires a boost in CPU and GPU, but not a radically different and new architecture.

The PowerXCell8i is an enhanced and optimized Cell design, it has better single precision floating point performance and is several times faster at double precision floating point. Two PowerXCell8i processors would provide 2PPC cores and 16 fully working SPUs (15 available to games) to compare with 1 PPC core and 7 SPUs (6 available to games). The performance gains from the design enhancements on both the PPC core and SPU cores would yield better than double the performance of a single CellBE. SPU performance would be at least 4 times what is currently available. If you combine that with a modern GPU design (even an nVidia one) you have a system that's more than capable of what is required to push 3D at 1080p with FSAA and AF.

I can't honestly see anything else that would require greater processing power than that, unless you try to do games using real time ray tracing. I'm not saying Sony would got this way, but it makes a huge amount of sense since the R&D costs are very contained, and developers would not have to junk their existing knowledge. There is also a very good chance that it would be 100% backward compatible with the PS3.

But, as we all know, just because something makes sense, that doesn't mean it will happen.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:47:36 PM

BTW, for anyone really interested in 3D technology. Google this;

Sony RayModeler

No glasses, completely 3D from all angles. Could be a sign of things to come?

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shadowscorpio
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:13:39 PM

I'm confident that the console developers and game developers will take into consideration the costs of doing this ahead of time.
Its not the kind of industry were they are just going to throw enormous amounts of money into a next gen project without having a means of making up the money spent.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:58:31 PM

@ Highlander

Even though the Raymodeler is quite small and has a low resolution right now, it would be very cool if the PS4 had hardware support for it for future use.

Imagine watching sports on it, being able to see the action from all angles, there'd be hardly any arguments over whether the ball was in or out again!! (One can wish)

True stereoscopic 3D gaming with no glasses in a cylindrical tv display... Once the tech is perfected, increased in size and resolution, I think Sony may be onto something here.

Question is, what has MS done new lately? Kinect? A glorified Eyetoy clone? I see it fading away like the Wii in 3 years time.

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Lawless SXE
Tuesday, January 25, 2011 @ 12:48:18 AM

Highlander,
I was thinking inversely to you, but I concede the point. Your argument is far more solid than my own.

And that Raymodeler seems like a really cool piece of tech.

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H8WL3R
Wednesday, January 26, 2011 @ 11:38:26 PM

Thank you TheHighlander for that search suggestion on the Sony RayModeler. I did indeed google it and found it interesting. It definetly got me thinking. Presently if we want to watch a movie/play a game at home with others, we have to gather in front of a diplay, imagine if in the not too distant future we gather around one. It could be something to consider eh?

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bloody_rootz
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:50:15 AM
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I can definitely wait awhile for the ps4

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 4:30:43 AM
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I can't imagine next gen consoles at the moment. I don't want to. I don't like the current movement based control theme, and my greatest fear is that being the future of gaming, and I just go the way of the dinosaur 'cause I don't wannna look the idiot while playing games. Heh.

I just want MOAR games for the console I have and devs to quit slacking off. No more broken games, no more glitch heavy games out of the box. I'm a console gamer for a reason, not a PC gamer.

...I also want them to separate online and offline trophies so I don't have to play online multiplayer games in games that shouldn't even have multiplayer to get all the trophies...

Heh.

In all seriousness, I just want my PS3, and I want them to continue to do HD box set collections of games from my past. If they can keep that up for a good ten years before blowing my brain sideways with a new console, that'd be awesome.

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H8WL3R
Thursday, January 27, 2011 @ 12:28:04 AM

I agree with you MadPowerBomber on NOT wanting ALL OR MOST games to be motion controlled solely. I do welcome the option to implement them however on a good (and hopefully to as vast as possible) selection of motion enabled titles, especially for those best suited for the current and future technology. The catch however being that it doesn't negatively affect the development nor hinder any part of the game whatsoever (e.g. broken controls and discarded content simply for the sake of motion sensing). I suppose though if they took that bit of extra time and thought those example may be avoided.

I too get very frustrated with very glitchy games with bugs crawling everywhere or very big ones that creep up me from time to time. This is very upsetting during launch, but I find it especially time is gradually passing and there is no announcement of a patch(es) nor the slightest acknowledgment of an error. It's also exponentially frustrating (which often leads to infuriating no?) when the game has been out for months and they'll release DLC, but no word on patches to fix all they can (especially significant issues). DLC will be pumped out though, which may cause more issues, however no sign of fixing the former and now current one? "Better" yet is when they've moved on to something else, feverishly chippin' away at it and/or eagerly awaiting it's launch without fixing any considerably distracting, game freezing and irreversably permanent character/world affecting flaws. Sorry to really go off on this topic (though as I'm writing this I'm actually quite quietly calm and have never really lost it with any multimedia nor rarely in genral really). I will also be quick to point out that luckily I've rarely come across really significant glitches, although I heard one about vampirism in TESIV:Oblivion and the Fallout games (PS3 versions).

Seperate offline/online trophies would be great personally. I like to go online with some games occasionally, but it's currently a seldom affair with most. Regardless even if I were more of an online gamer I think it could be cool to have them distinct and not disabling players from platinuming games for the sake of multiplayer trophies alone. I suppose that wouldn't be viable in multiplayer only games and possibly tricky with games which have a heavy emphasis on it. Hmmmm.....

I'm totally there with you on wanting more HD box set collections, personally some of which I may like to own are: DMC (1-3), R&C (all iterations would be welcome, def. PS2), MGS (which is rumored to be coming soon right?), FF (old school PS1 and slightly older shcool PS2) and maybe J&D.

Hope I didn't bore anyone too much, and thanks for reading if you have.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:02:10 AM
Reply

I would happily welcome a PS4 only if the following criteria is met:

1. A lower price point on date of release than the PS3's launch price.

2. Backwards compatibility maintained with PS3 games.

3. HD, 3D and Move calculations supported through hardware design, not software design.

4. A faster Blu-ray disc speed or a faster laser spectrum that increases speed yet maintains high capacity of Blu-ray. Faster disc speeds means more compression which means more space for content.

5. A release date that precedes the competition by at least 6 months. Don't want MS to get the upper hand again.

6. Security measures that prevent the PS3 hack from happening to the PS4, in any manner.

I will gladly support the PS4 if those reasonable yet realistic measures are met.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:15:43 AM

I think all of your points are pretty safe bets except for #5. Could you still live with that?

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GuyverLT
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 8:51:10 AM

PS4 is gonna cost more than the PS3 did when it launch cause of whatever new & expensive hardware/tech they put into. Like this generation of consoles Sony would probably start off using backward Compatibility in the beginning then get rid of it in order to sell PS4's just like they did in the beginning of the PS3 with the PS2 backward compatibility. As far as the hacking goes there is always gonna be some brainiac somewhere in the world that's gonna figure out a way to hack a game console & modify it, there's really just no way of getting around that.

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Looking Glass
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 9:21:29 AM

@Guyver

So in other words you're saying that Sony is going to be making the exact same mistakes next generation that they did with this one?

I seriously doubt that. The issues that Sony has encountered this generation will in all likelihood serve as a very, very good teacher.

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GuyverLT
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 11:56:47 AM

@Looking Glass

If you say so.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 5:52:29 PM

@ Guyver

I think Sony has learnt a lot of lessons with the PS3, its successes and its fails.

If, and only IF, Sony decide to implement a faster but similar structure to the PS4 that was used in the PS3, than PS3 backwards compatibility is a no brainer. Also, with the PSN being a single online platform and service in itself, it would be incredibly expensive to implement a new PSN service compatible with the PS4 should the architecture be vastly different.

Creating the PS4 to be a faster and better PS3 would allow controllers, Move, 3D and PSN features to be fully compatible with it, which would mean less money invested on Sony's behalf into more hardware or online service production.

The only new hardware upgrade I can see in the future is a new PSeye camera that does 720p or 1080p image recording, or even 3D recording with 2 lenses. Couple this with Move or other movement sensing technology and you'll have competition for the Kinect, then the PS3 WILL do everything!

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GuyverLT
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 6:13:30 PM

Point taken.

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H8WL3R
Thursday, January 27, 2011 @ 12:32:04 AM

Ooooh an upgraded HD 1080p PSEye; Dancemachine 55 I'm liking that idea.

Well let's hope they've learned quite a few considerably valuable lessons which benefit the gamer, Sony, the devs and publishers (which I very much sincerely do). :-)

*Personally hopes for some features on the top of my head including these:
- definetly PS3 backwards compatibility (maybe PS and more importantly PS2)
- more affordably priced at launch and a quicker slim model available
- no bigger than the current PS3 (perhaps even more compact if possible)
- quicker, more powerful system all around with inherent support for current (maybe even near future features/tech)
- more connectivity ports (as long as it's price and energy efficient)
- continuted support of the PSN including ALL current DLC, movies and games (with minor benificial tweaks and upgrades perhaps on all ends, as longs as they're not intrusive or forceful)
- better, more effecient and user friendly brower (some have mentioned a few on this forum before)

While I personally feel no need nor have a great desire for a PS4 pronto; I'll not deny that I'm interested in the progress. I'll also likely want one at some point.

Sidebar:
I think technology though as a whole can be very helpful, but I just hope we don't abuse the priveleges we've been given/created. I'd rather not fill our earth with a plathora of trashed electronics, plastic and other materials we've just discarded (WALL-E). I also don't like the idea of some corporation creating something as intelligent as us (or exceedingly so) to be disrespected nor taken for granted. I guess I'm saying the thought sometimes crosses my mind, which causes me to sense a tinge of fear with something similar to a Terminator/Matrix/Borg scenario becoming a reality. I don't mean to say that it's necessarily a foregone conclusion; however as technology is advancing rapidly it seems humanity has been steadily dependant. To paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite movies; I hope our scientists/engineers aren't so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they don't stop to think if they should. Surely you know what classic film that's from right? Hint: This month Ben mentioned a PSN (multi-plat?) game in the works based on this film (fanchise?). In summary I try to be kind to everything on (and including) our green earth; including the fleshy and the mechanical. :-)

Last edited by H8WL3R on 1/27/2011 1:51:12 AM

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telly
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 9:34:25 AM
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I'm still super satisfied with every aspect of game design this generation for the HD consoles, and PS3 in particular continues to amaze. Why rush to the next big thing? Now that developers are getting a handle on the tech, let them focus on making the most interesting, enjoyable and groundbreaking game experiences possible.

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Temjin001
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:39:58 AM
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A lot of good posts; though I don't think NIntendo is looking at themselves in a position to "catch up" with Sony and MS. The Wii came out and ignited the world on fire and seemingly saved themselves from death in the console market by targeting a very casual less engaged game player. They reaped profits with every hardware sale and had minimal failure rates. And they did it all without having to worry about competing with gamers like many of the one's who frequent these boards.

So I don't suspect Nintendo is going to suddenly change their strategy by moving away from lower cost, affordable hardware and then foolishly try and target a saturated and highly competitive 360-PS3 demographic--the GC is evidence of where they were going on that field. Where then they'd have to dump double digit millions of dollars to compete with software like Uncharted and God War. It's just not going to happen.

I've already written Nintendo off in my heart as a game provider. They just aren't after my best interests. And even if they had decently powerful hardware with the next Wii I suspect they won't have the sort of premium software to make it a worthwhile investment. I even doubt that whatever the next "Wii' is it won't match even the PS3 spec for spec.

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GuyverLT
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 12:05:56 PM

I have never really liked the wii, but I agree with you on everything you said. I always felt like Nintendo was in their own market, They already tried to compete with both Microsoft & Sony last gen & they learned they're lesson & came back this gen with a working formula that's gotten them major success with they're console.

Last edited by GuyverLT on 1/24/2011 12:07:47 PM

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slugga_status
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 10:55:09 AM
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Have to agree..It don't believe it would be wise to introduce a PS4 any time soon. We still haven't see all the PS3 can do. I really believe the release of a PS4 would depend on what happens with the PS3. Will devs all learn to optimize it?

Nintendo is fine were they are. They believe they stopped looking for the hardcore gamers when the Gamecube came out.

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Bonampak
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 1:26:14 PM

"Nintendo is fine were they are. They believe they stopped looking for the hardcore gamers when the Gamecube came out."

^^^^ Nah, you have that backwards.

As someone that had a PS2 and a GC, I can tell you for sure that Nintendo did try to cater to core gamers on the Cube.

One of the main reasons I even got one, was because they got that Resident Evil exclusivity deal (REmake, RE Zero). A deal that was designed to cater to cores, no less.

Nintendo also resurrected the Metroid franchise with that console. And released 2 brand new Zelda titles (Wind Waker & Twilight Princess) and lots of Mario games as well.

What happened with the Cube, is that core gamers abandoned it. This as a result of 3rd party devs not fully supporting it. Despite being just as powerful as the other 2 consoles out there.

To the point: the 'kiddy' image that always haunts Nintendo is what killed the cube.

So basically, it was core gamers that abandoned Nintendo first. Not the other way around. That's why they came up with the Wii. To cater a new user base. Since the old one was GONE.

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slugga_status
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 2:22:50 PM

Should've said "I believe" and not "they"...you might be right..was just my opinion.

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Highlander
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 3:34:03 PM

@Bonampak

the slide of Hardcore gamers and game started with the N64. The cartridges were expensive to produce and restrictive in capacity. Publishers tended to shy away, Nintendo didn't release many games and the Playstation killed it in terms of the sheer volume of titles. Gamers flocked to the Playstation. A friend of mine had the N64, I had Playstation. There were great games on the N64, but very few new games. Plus the games on the PlayStation had sound and even speech.

By the time the cube arrived, the slide was well underway, and the constant re-use of Mario and other characters of that ilk didn't exactly dis-spell the image of a kiddie konsole.

Nintendo made it's own bed, and it continues to lay in it under a pile of money. The loss of hardcore gamers doesn't appear to have harmed Nintendo greatly.

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Eld
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:02:02 PM
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Issue of devs "getting up to speed" is really blown out of proportion a bit. It's not that complicated. It's more about companies not wanting to pay devs for some time while they educate themselves about new hardware during which time they aren't making anything company can put on the shelves within a year or two.

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PharaohJR
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:18:03 PM
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im not ready, not ready at all for another generation of consoles. the PS3 i dont even believe its reached maximum performance yet. i think titles like MGS KZ UC & GOW are perfect examples. i think it has 3 more years before it reaches peak & 2 more years with the 3 for enjoyment so another 5 years. unfortunately because this is a market of competition & the prize being money 360 & wii will try to drop something new. reason being there system are basically done with inovation the PS3 is still going.

cause there are more multi platform games than single platform games most games are limited to quality. a example is GTA4 i mean could u imagine how much more content & detail it would of had if it was exclusive to PS3?...... i like 360 & wii im a gamer but ya cant deny the fact PS3 exclusives shine more than the competitors......

man if they do decide to introduce a set of new systems in 3 years i hope they consider a reasonable price cause of the economy. i had no problem payin $650 for my 60g in feb 2007 but prices like that right now or 3 years i dunno bout at all.....

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GuyverLT
Monday, January 24, 2011 @ 7:45:51 PM

My hats off to you & anyone else who was able to get a PS3 when a it 1st dropped, I was one of the many people who wasn't able to afford one until the price drop, then I went back & got the PS3 slim.

The only reason GTA4 really went multi-platform was because at that time PS3 was nowhere near seeing the sale figures it's seen since the price drop. If the PS3 had been the same price it has now, as when it 1st launched, Then MAYBE not only would games like DMC4, FFXIII GTA4 stayed exclusive, but we would have seen different versions with better content of those games as well.

Last edited by GuyverLT on 1/24/2011 7:49:23 PM

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H8WL3R
Thursday, January 27, 2011 @ 2:23:03 AM

Ditto on the commendation you gave concerning the PS3 launch Guyver, and the same goes for video game launches; prices and bugs/glitches being main factors of why I rarely jump on the wagon immediately.

Hmmm, I too wonder how many of the newest installments of previously exclusive franchises would've been different, likely even expanded and improved as you two have mentioned. I guess it could apply in general; concering the consoles of course. I thought I had read something similar here (and/or elsewhere) about console games in general holding PC titles back; hopefully though that is less PS3 related. I used to play Quake II & III Arena, Half-Life and the original Unreal Tournament primarily on PC (own most and still have 'em), but I've been a part of the PS family ever since the original grey grand daddy. I currently still have my PS2 Slim and have had my PS3 Slim since launch Aug. 26th 2009. I still like the PC for the likes of Fable and RTS games, but I play primarily on PS3. There are a few games on the XBox 360 of interest, but some have made their way to me and the other very few don't think warrant a purchase of an entirely other system, not to mention the extra cost and space it would take up. I would like to play with more people I know somewhat in person though; one of which sold his PS3 to his father to buy an XBox 360, I think it's because all or most of his friends play what is primarily CoD:BO.

Last edited by H8WL3R on 1/27/2011 2:25:18 AM

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Wednesday, January 26, 2011 @ 8:13:29 AM
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