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Treyarch: Bugs Are A Part Of Games

Oh, stop complaining about glitches in Call of Duty: Black Ops. There's no such thing as the "glitch-less" game.

In speaking to VideoGamer, Treyarch community manager Josh Olin said that regardless of developer, all games can - and do - have bugs. There just isn't any way to get rid of them all, either. Technically, what he's saying is true, but perhaps his words will be misinterpreted by some:

"It is unfortunate that those [bugs] have to exist at all. In an ideal world, we would love to ship a completely bug-proof game. I can't think of a single developer in the world, though, that could achieve that."

Activision has tried to release updates that address the many issues facing the PlayStation 3 and PC versions of Black Ops, but complaints still continue to trickle in. But Treyarch isn't ignoring them; they spend two weeks collecting a "comprehensive list" of bugs, and then spend the time to fix 'em. We also have to remember how much work is required by the developer: just one hour of online gameplay is more than the team "could put into quality assurance in a lifetime." It also doesn't help that gamers are doing things the devs "could never predict or think of."

Perhaps it's inevitable that the most popular game in the world will have lots of online-related issues, but let's not forget there were some issues with the single-player campaign, too. ...we'd add something about multiplatform titles versus exclusive titles (for all platforms), but we figure that's well known by now.

Tags: games industry, treyarch, call of duty, black ops

2/8/2011 9:16:59 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (44 posts)

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:47:54 PM
Reply

Nothing is bug-free, but most are far better than Craptivision games.

Agree with this comment 12 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:51:24 PM

Pure truth-sauce.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Victor321
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:49:44 PM
Reply

That's obvious, like how no human can be the most "perfect" being.

What's important is to make it polished to the point where bugs would not be considered a major concern. A great example was Killzone 2. Despite it said to be extremely polished from the gamers and press alike, Guerrila Games still released patches to iron out anything that appeared on the horizon. I know this because I regularly checked killzone.com for any new and updates on the game.

To conclude, although there is truth to what he is saying, he, along with every other gaming developer, can't take the easy way out and just say that.

Last edited by Victor321 on 2/8/2011 9:50:27 PM

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OPHIDIAN
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:50:29 PM
Reply

Black ops was full of single player glitches.

I had a worse experience with Bad Company 2 though, at one point I had to shoot down an invisible helicopter :O

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NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:51:51 PM

That reminds me of a bug in Crysis where a chopper would spawn under water. I had to stock up on explosives and throw them in the ocean to blow it up :D

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johnld
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 1:33:49 AM

i could barely pay attention to bugs in black ops singleplayer. i was too pissed playing it on veteran. treyarch knows how to make a singleplayer experience but they dont know how to make a game challenging. they can only make them cheap as hell. i mean, i spent about 2 hours trying to get down the damn hill on that vietnam level. the combination of endless spawns, super accurate enemies, dumbA$$ AI, and taking more damage per hit is just plain cheap. also, i shouldnt forget that the game forces me to slow down decending the hill. apparently, my character is more worried about falling down the hill than the endless amount of super soldiers trying to kill me.

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spiderboi
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:38:40 AM

In all honesty, CoD:BO was the first game I played in the PS3 with such a glaring glitch. It was on the final stage, and as I was running along the path Mason went thru, a lot of the other enemies were just ghosts. Just standing there and I could pass through them. But some of them were real, so I almost emptied by mag by shoot-checking each one..


Hey, I said MAG :)

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Underdog15
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 2:14:25 PM

I remember that hill level... My first playthrough was on veteran, so I didn't even realize I was supposed to hit those barrels for like... I dunno.... a few frustrated playthroughs... I just kept killing them and trying to move forward. I even was able to stay alive in the trench at the bottom for a bit, but yeah...

FYI, yeah it's stupid about running down the stairs and being slow, but you can avoid that if you just don't run down the stairs. Stay to the right or left of them and you'll go fast.

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johnld
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 9:15:51 PM

when i tried not going on the stairs, there was some sort of invisible wall or way open for bullets. i even tried jumping to prone but i either hit an invisible wall or enemies rush me right away. my first playthrough was on veteran too and i will say this, the campaign is enjoyable if you dont do veteran.

Last edited by johnld on 2/9/2011 9:17:18 PM

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Veitsknight
Thursday, February 10, 2011 @ 9:33:30 AM

Speaking of MAG, players are starting to experience game freezing after the 2.0 patch

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Temjin001
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:55:24 PM
Reply

I'd imagine quality control was more of an issue prior to online connectivity when devs didn't have the luxury of patches. In recent memory I can think of some significant bugs that have hampered single player experiences on release. Splinter Cell: Conviction, Dragon Age (PS3), and Fallout: Vegas come to mind.
I don't think I could name more than MK: Trilogy and FF (NES-Battery failure) problems from gens past.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 10:03:36 PM

To be fair games are a lot more complex now, but they DO have massive budgets. I think devs (the actual people not necessarily the companies) are under tons of pressure and deadlines from demanding big shots like Activision. I would prefer they go for perfection (Kojima style) versus release windows but what do I know?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 9:57:59 PM
Reply

What it amounts to is whether or not the glitch is detrimental to the experience. I don't remember any glitches in Uncharted 2 so any that existed don't matter. But that's exclusive so... unfair? Okay I haven't found glitches in Visceral games, like any glitches at all. But I don't have DS2 yet so who knows. Castlevania might've had a bad camera, but no glitches stick out. Maybe it's just FPS?

Anyway, just having glitches shouldn't ruin a game, but sometimes the glitches are just hard to ignore. I have trouble with them being ignored in reviews though. Somehow all the reviewers glossed over a lot in games they wanted to score high.

Online can cause lots of problems, but what is supposedly the best online experience and biggest phenomenon should be able to predict what players can do and get ahead of it.

In the end it's just proof positive some still can't work well with the PS3.

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Highlander
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 10:05:57 PM
Reply

Well yeah, it's software so there are going to be bugs - duh.

What matters is how the application (in this case a game) deals with the error. What bugs me is that game developers sometimes seem to be incapable of writing their code to trap and handle errors. Bugs happen, and if you code appropriately you drastically reduce their impact.

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Nynja
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:03:09 AM

What disturbs me is the corrupt game save bugs - com'on BioWare, get it together!

As for Treyarch, the fact they continue to lie to the public by claiming the PS3 version was not a port only makes the current situation worse. Had they simply admitted the truth from the beginning, PS3 gamers would probably be very upset but be more willing to accept that their version of the game really is from the second hand shop and the backlash Activision and Treyarch are receiving would have died long time ago.

Face the music Treyarch... Either you lied to the public and really just ported the game over to PS3 or you are just lazy or dumb coders.

For your sake, I'm betting on lazy.

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Bugzbunny109
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 10:08:48 PM
Reply

Is this supposed to be an excuse for the buggy half-assed game they created called Black Ops?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 10:24:05 PM

In a word: yes.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 @ 11:18:24 PM
Reply

Little glitches here and there like a little screen tearing or a slight lag (as long as it isn't often) don't bother me much at all.

What bothers me are game ending glitches, exploits, and broken mechanics that literally halt you from getting the experience you are supposed to have been provided with.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

booze925
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 12:14:46 AM
Reply

eh... prostitutes have bugs to. they're called crabs.

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AntDC
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 4:37:05 AM

And like prostitutes, Black Ops should just be avoided.

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evilmunkie
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 5:24:08 AM

unless they are used and $15 a pop.............. CODs i mean, or do i?

Last edited by evilmunkie on 2/9/2011 5:26:01 AM

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Underdog15
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:46:53 AM

I'm confused... is this post promoting prostitution or black ops? The indifference in tone is weirding me out.

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evilmunkie
Thursday, February 10, 2011 @ 7:56:18 AM

@Underdog15, guess i shouldve wrote *wink* or 'gigitty' since you think im serious. if i wanted to promote it i'd just tell you the name of my favorite massage place..... wait for it.... *wink*
i was talking about CODs in general not just black ops, but aren't the two just the same thing at this point? can we not call COD a prostitute that just whores itself out year after year. this comming from me, a guy that got the "hardened" edition XD ...... no seriously, i did, i needed to experience the updated nazi zombie levels, not disappointed one bit on that part. what i am disappointed in is reading this

"a new standalone Call of Duty title was in development for the Chinese market. It is to be a free-to-play, micro-transaction based game, and while he didn’t say if Beachhead had any input in it, (Eric) Hirshberg did mention that it would not be released this year."

only a matter of time till that ugly prostitute comes to the states, and i bet thats an ugly yet expensive prostitute if you spend enough time with it. Black ops will officially be my second and last COD i get new, dont care how many of my friends get the new one anymore. i realized its just not worth it to PROMOTE & REWARD corporate greed, while other companies look on. before we know it there will be no such thing as quality or freebies to be found anywhere and as consumers will be treated like crap.

Last edited by evilmunkie on 2/10/2011 8:04:56 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, February 10, 2011 @ 8:39:53 AM

@evilmike

yeah, I was talkin' to Booze. lol And I was only thrown off by the "eh..." at the start... When I made the mention of "prostitutes" I was referring to the guy who wrote the word "prostitutes".

It's pretty obvious you're joking. But thanks for the sarcasm.

P.s. You should check out "Virginia's" if you're interested....... *wink*

Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/10/2011 8:43:45 AM

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StangMan80
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 12:15:54 AM
Reply

Yeah, they are. It's just that YOUR "bugs" are the most noticeable in any game. It's just sad how many Millions of people out there can't see them. And on top of that it's the same thing as COD4, that's the real sad part.

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___________
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 1:46:36 AM
Reply

of course there not!
but that does not make it any better, if someone chopped your head off does that make it ok for a family member of yours to chop their head off?
last time i checked 2 wrongs dont make a right, so just because other developers have released buggy games does not excuse you from doing so.
i have not played this online, for obvious reasons so i have not experienced many problems with it.
on the PC though, thats a whole other kettle of fish!
its like the games still in alpha!
i mean come on, when you have a I7 CPU and dual GTX 570s in SLI and you cant get above 18 FPS you know you have a serious problem!
this just reiterates why everyone hates antivision, they could not give a f*ck if fans are happy with the game!
as long as it brings in the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats all that matters!
f*ck the fans!

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spiderboi
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:39:49 AM

Say what??

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Underdog15
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:47:54 AM

Settle down, Jason. Freddy's come to your dreams, I suggest you focus on him.

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crunchy_nut_kid
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 5:43:03 AM
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i'm a person whos likes to find glitches and use them to my advantage. for example, in the black ops zombie map "five" i could get on the table and become invinsible. since its been patched, that game is no longer fun.

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kraygen
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 5:57:44 AM
Reply

Well that is just a sad attitude. How can you say it is impossible to be bug free? I don't believe it. It may be complicated as all get out to make as much code as is needed for these games, but that doesn't mean it can't be glitch free.

I'm sorry, but the amount of glitches and the severeness of glitches will ultimately show the care and quality of the game.

I have played games that were glitch free and I have played games with glitches so severe the game in nigh impossible to play. I call foul upon the devs. Have some pride and fix your game before you release it.

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Nynja
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:38:52 AM

I hate to say it, but what he claims is almost true. The more complicated the software, the more opportunities for unwanted behavior. Games are more complicated today than they have been in the past with hundreds of thousands more lines of code.

Any developer and QA technician knows this, but we also still strive for that perfection. The difficult thing to do is decide whether or not certain known issues are large enough of a problem to prevent release.

I'm sure that the big guys at Activision did not give a damn what state the PS3 version was in and wanted it released day and date with the 360 version. They have the Microsoft mind set - release it broken, fix it later.

That said, it still does not excuse the publisher for allowing such a bug ridden product to be released nor the developer for taking a risk with the "new" game engine optimized for the 360 without providing the proper resources to the PS3 development team.

So, I still agree with you... Activision and Treyarch f'd up.

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kraygen
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 5:07:57 PM

Yeah, I totally agree that games are more complex today, however some games released today are still either glitch free or so close it's unnoticeable.

This goes to show it's possible and like you said, it's just the mindset of the dev. If they want it to be quality, then they will take the time to make it so.

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Nynja
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 9:54:50 AM
Reply

When creating software for 3 platforms and choosing to lead development on one device then port code over to other platforms - of course those ported versions will likely contain more unique bugs when compared to the lead.

What is pathetic is only after a few months of release there have already been 6 plus patches, each containing 10 or more fixes with more incoming. That hardly classifies as "a few bugs".

Lesson Learned: When developing a new engine, make sure it works on all supported platforms before you start carving stone.

Someone needs to shut Josh Olin the hell up. Every comment he makes is only throwing more salt on the wound.

I've learned my lesson, I will never buy a Treyarch PS3 game again.

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spiderboi
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 10:40:31 AM
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Such a defeatist attitude. Me no likey. It's their job to ensure there were no glitches in the first place.

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BattleFox21
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 12:28:53 PM
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I hate to say it but I have been messing around with gaming consoles since I was like 8 yrs old and PC's since 16 yrs old and the games of old barely (if any) had any bugs. I happen to think the standard for quality is what is to blame and the developers. They find a game they want to make and push it out as fast as possible. Look at Sony's games then look at multi-plats and 360 games there's a HUGE difference..That said STOP WITH THE LAME A$S EXCUSES NO ONES BUYING IT!! Love how they treat us like we're so stupid we would believe a dumb lie when most of us know perfection used to be the industry standard and now it's not!! :o

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Underdog15
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 12:48:55 PM

I actually think most people are dumb enough to believe them though. People like you have a more objective approach as opposed to the masses that believe CoD is the best thing since sliced bread.

Believe it or not, that response 3-arc had will make many people happy and put more trust in them. *rolls eyes with Battlefox21*

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Thinker
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 7:19:28 PM

While in this particular instance I think Acti/Treyarch are squarely to blame, I disagree that QA in games in general has decreased. The reason that there is more potential for error is because the games, AI, physics, sound and visuals have gotten much more intricate and complex, and thus the code used to achieve these grows much more complex in direct proportion, leading to more room for error.

A dedicated Developer can still achieve near-perfection though, e.g. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerrilla, Ubisoft, 2K, etc.

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BeezleDrop
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 1:10:00 PM
Reply

Ooooh this is rich, the major bugs that are a part of call of duty games are directly resulting from one of the worst game engines and poor development. There are no excuses for such game crippling bugs, but idiots still play it. They all don't realize what a real shooter is and couldn't possibly imagine what other games exist on the platform. CoD is just so pathetic.

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Stang
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 1:31:23 PM
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Give it up Josh - You and Treyarch/Activision knowingly sold every PS3 user that picked up Black Ops a broken game. You can patch it all you want and it still won't run properly on a PS3 end of story.

Three words Joshie boy - "Frames Per Second" - Black Ops - is coded so badly for the PS3 that a napalm strike turns the game into a slide show .... minor bug I guess ?

What a douche.

Treyarch is defintely the COD "B" Team for a reason.

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Thinker
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 3:34:22 PM
Reply

"Treyarch: Bugs Are A Part Of Games"

Apparently a PARTICULARLY big part of games by Treyarch/Activision.

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Lairfan
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 6:11:09 PM
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They actually think this is a legitimate excuse for the gigantic amount of bugs this game has? Just admit it Treyarch, the "one CoD a year" thing that Activision has going on makes you have to rush to finish the game, leaving very little time for QA testing. Add in the fact that you and Activision seem to have a hatred of consoles other than 360, resulting in ports of CoD to the other platforms, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Its probably only going to get worse from here with CoD coming out once every year now. Too bad the CoD fanboys and general public will continue to eat it up until the end of time, just like they've done with Halo. Sad, but true.

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Alienange
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 @ 7:38:49 PM
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Show me one bug in Mario Galaxy. Just one. Come on show me. Yeah. Technically, what he's saying is NOT true.

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Godslim
Thursday, February 10, 2011 @ 9:14:58 AM
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mmmm yeh but black ops has so many bugs its just annoying as hell!

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ae86takumi
Sunday, February 13, 2011 @ 11:32:27 AM
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I remember playing one mode that my entire team would spawn in the same area while the other team just stood there shooting at us as we spawned, I thought to myself, what a crap of a game.

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