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Infinity Ward: New CoD Engine Would Be "Counter-productive"

DICE has the Frostbite 2 engine for Battlfield 3, so might Infinity Ward have a new engine for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, which they are rumored to be developing?

Nope. When someone mentioned on Robert Bowling's Twitter page that "someone just needs to spend the $ and construct a new engine for the CoD franchise...ground up," Bowling replied: "That would be counterproductive. An engine takes years and years to develop and get right." For a frame of reference, check out the new Battlefield 3 gameplay, which shows off that aforementioned Frostbite 2 engine. In contrast, all the CoD entries since CoD2 in 2005 have run on the same engine, although modifications and other upgrades have been obvious. We all assume Infinity Ward is cranking away on MW3 and we expect an official announcement soon, but if they want to be competitive with DICE and EA, maybe a new engine will be necessary at some point... The CoD fans don't seem to notice or care that each entry has been using the same engine but then again, both IW and Treyarch have done some pretty amazing things with that piece of technology.

But uh...maybe that Twitter poster has a point. Maybe if Activision didn't have to put out a CoD title every year, someone could make a new engine...

Tags: infinity ward, call of duty, modern warfare 3, cod engine

3/2/2011 8:57:11 PM John Shepard

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Comments (113 posts)

NotGoofinAround
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:21:12 PM
Reply

This is why capitalism and our greedy money-market economy is destroying gaming (along with everything else). It just isn't worth it for these companies to sit on something for a few years and make it great. Why would they anyway, if you make the greatest game ever then nobody will want to buy the next lump of crap-o-la they shovel into our faces.

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OPHIDIAN
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:26:52 PM

NGA:

Your talking about the ideal world where developers forgo interest in profit and try to create the best possible game within their ability. However, you got to understand, IW, Dice etc are all companies, businesses, they exist to make a profit.

I mean, who would pay the IW team while this extraordinary engine is being made?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:29:06 PM

Oh knock it off. Don't blame capitalism. Blame Activision and the zombies who continue to buy their crap games. Capitalism didn't force Activations hand. It's simply a tool to grow money and make a profit. You sound like a marxist with that "it's teh capitalism's fault" claptrap. If it wasn't for capitalism we wouldn't have games in the first place.

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booze925
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:01:43 AM

go back to the soviet union and play in the dirt instead, Karl Marx

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:29:12 AM

That's right! We should rally together our proletariat peers and stand united to rise up and overthrow those "evil" bourgeois butt-faced-capitalistic-pigs who make us do all their dirty work!

=p

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:30:18 AM

In Soviet Russia: Engine builds you!

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FM23
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 2:36:04 AM

IN SOVIET RUSSIA...GAME PLAYS YOU!

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Dancemachine55
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 5:29:14 AM

LOL @ World!!!

Your posts are always good for a laugh.

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 5:31:08 AM

Hi, PSXextreme, 1st time comment! Just want to say I don't believe people are evil, I do believe systems make people behave accordingly, so yeah I'm with you NGA :) Whether it's this or that, one thing can be blamed over all, and that's our lust for money, and the bigger lust the people with more money have..

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:02:27 AM

@Ishkur and Notgoofinaround

Imagine if IW, Dice, etc. had sharholders to be responsible to! Man, imagine how many games would be released th.... o wait....

Yeah... I suppose they do have alot of people to be responsible to.

You guys can blame the human condition and the lust for money or that fanciful thing called capitalism, but don't forget, people have always been wanting more. It isn't a new idea with capitalism that just sprung up in the last 2 centuries... *rolls eyes*

If you're really mad, blame the people who settle for mediocrity and buy the game year in/year out. Your thoughts on capitalism are porous because you act like people have no choice but to invest in a new game with them every year. We, the people, have the right to vote with our wallets. And guess what? If most people continue to buy it, maybe we're in the minority believing it's only mediocre. And if that's the case, the people have spoken in which case IW has done nothing but deliver what the people want.

I dunno... I just see so much wrong with your undergraduate thinking. It's much akin to a second year undergrad. (not an actual graduate or even someone who's never been to university...)

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:18:13 PM

"I don't believe people are evil"

Riiiight, it was the "systems" that forced Hilter, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Mummar Qadaffi, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jung IL, Saddam, etc etc to inflict horror, suffering and death upon hundreds of millions of people through out history. Gotcha!

/

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 3:46:22 PM

Sorry in advance, this will be a long post mostly due to quoting :) (also sry if I get some words wrong, ingles ma 3rd language!)

@Underdog15
"Imagine if IW, Dice, etc. had sharholders to be responsible to! Man, imagine how many games would be released th.... o wait....

Yeah... I suppose they do have alot of people to be responsible to."
So they release alot of games, which is good for people who want quantity, but I like quality, so there.. I don't like to see the same game in a new box every month, I don't like to see creativity being held back due to time constraints, budget or what have you.. I'm sorry to bring this up, but the truth is, I've watched a movie called Zeitgeist(you may have heard of it), and I am convinced, that all good would come out of having a world free of money.. I'm not here to debate how that would work, I don't know, all I know is we'd be better off.. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, no?

"You guys can blame the human condition and the lust for money or that fanciful thing called capitalism, but don't forget, people have always been wanting more. It isn't a new idea with capitalism that just sprung up in the last 2 centuries... *rolls eyes*"
Of course it isn't anything new, but that doesn't make it less outdated, does it? Or more OK. Does it?

"If you're really mad, blame the people who settle for mediocrity and buy the game year in/year out. Your thoughts on capitalism are porous because you act like people have no choice but to invest in a new game with them every year. We, the people, have the right to vote with our wallets. And guess what? If most people continue to buy it, maybe we're in the minority believing it's only mediocre. And if that's the case, the people have spoken in which case IW has done nothing but deliver what the people want."
I'm definitely not mad, I choose to ignore the money hungry companies, and try to buy games with thought put into it.. Absolutely! And there you go and put words into my mouth, I never said people don't have a saying into what comes out, and in what quality, all I'm saying is that companies have the incentive of selling it to us.. Now what does that mean? Does that mean they want to make the best product we can get? Given the fact there's the option of DLC, a new in the series coming out next year, and in the case of the story, not wanting to make a new, better engine, because it costs more than they could be making without.. The answer is no, of course not. But after those factors, yeah sure.. They'll make it good! And remember, DICE is only doing theirs, to compete and perhaps overthrow COD.. Do you see a pattern here? They're driven by money, not by wanting to make the best thing they can do for us, but by our wallets.. :)

"I dunno... I just see so much wrong with your undergraduate thinking. It's much akin to a second year undergrad. (not an actual graduate or even someone who's never been to university...)"
Good to know I don't sound indoctrinated, thanks!

@Jawknee
Riiiight, it was the "systems" that forced Hilter, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, Mummar Qadaffi, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jung IL, Saddam, etc etc to inflict horror, suffering and death upon hundreds of millions of people through out history. Gotcha!"
The fact that people have the ability go get power is inherently evil, isn't it? Get the wrong guy/s up there, and you're screwed.. And the money system allows that, that's all I'm saying.. It's all connected ooOOooOoo...! xD

Thumbs up if you love video games <3 :*

Last edited by Ishkur on 3/3/2011 3:59:49 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 5:53:16 PM

You are one confused individual. When children are born, you do not have to teach them to lie or steal. Human nature is flawed at it's core and because of thinking like yours, evil men are allowed to commit the evil acts they do while decent men stand by and watch.

Evil doesn't exist in man? Tell that to the boys Jeffery Dohmer drugged, raped, murdered and ate. Tell that to the people who ended being Ed Gaine's lamp shade. Those evil men didn't commit the horror they did because of money or power. You points would be sad if they actually made sense.



Last edited by Jawknee on 3/3/2011 5:54:44 PM

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 6:25:43 PM

I'm definitely not making myself clear enough on my points, and I'm sorry for that.. I'd like you to go watch the Zeitgeist movies, and at least see what I'm trying to say, but I'm pretty sure you've got your mind set..
One thing though, I'm fully aware of extremely messed up people around the world, and I didn't mean that these things that they do aren't evil, but they weren't born that way.. Brought up in another environment they'd be different than what they were..
*waits for the "you're defending these monsters, blasphemy!" aka the flame
(no im not)

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:23:59 PM

@Ishkur
I was certainly not putting words into your mouth, nor were you the only one that I was addressing.

I, also, have grown tired of the CoD franchise, as many on this site can attest to, and I most certainly prefer to buy games of quality, which again, many on this site can attest to.

I was not even remotely arguing that Activision is my favorite company or that you should support them NOR DID I EVER SAY IT MAKES IT LESS OUTDATED!

The most frustrating thing is that you completely misread my whole post. I was merely addressing the fact that this phantom evil corporation mumbo-jumbo was silly. That Activision behaves like a business, and that the only way to change that is for everyone to buy TRUE quality over what is popular. We're on the same page dude!

Additionally, my POINT that I made.... well.... was that if people keep buying it up, then perhaps it is because they are given what they want. Why would you change a product that keeps being purchased? Why would you refine something that gets eaten up annually like a religious feast whether it's made by a gourmet chef or a McDonalds line cook?

Of course I would prefer refinement. I'm constantly on this site complaining about the poor multiplayer reliability found in CoD. I'm overjoyed when I write about how my friends have converted to KZ3!

I was, quite clearly, justifying Activision's actions, not as artists in gaming, but as a business who has a responsibility to their shareholders. I was pointing out the flawed logic of the "evil corporation". I was not trying to say CoD was some AAA title.

In fact, I would argue, that the parts you quoted from me, were the LEAST important parts of my post and were likely just the parts you wanted to address. And to me, that is frustrating, and a little bit indoctrinated.

Look... no developer in their right mind (aside from SquareEnix...) would stray from a recipe that works. I agree that it hurts the industry as a whole and limits progression, AT TIMES, but it's not like there aren't high quality AAA titles. If we're going to buy the next annual cash-cow title they throw at us, guess what they're gonna keep making? That's right.

You can't blame the corporations for that sort of business model. Blame the masses that support it. THAT is my point. On everything else, we agree.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/3/2011 7:26:40 PM

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:12:37 PM

-- Edited by Admin.

Note: Now you're LINKING to your baseless propaganda crap? Right. Not here.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:18:11 PM

Even linking to it doesn't change the fact he doesn't answer anyone.

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Ishkur
Friday, March 04, 2011 @ 3:48:25 AM

@Underdog15
Some notes about your post.

1. You're right, you weren't only replying to me, overlooking on my part whoops.

2. Be reminded, this is only my opinion. No need to get frustrated, just because we don't share the same views :) I'm sure you'll agree on this; as long as games make a huge profit as they do nowadays, we will have people in power telling the developers how to make it most profitable - a given. Now what I was trying to get across, was that if it didn't make a huge profit, and people still made games without wanting to make a profit, but with all the benefits of advancing technology, they would try and make them as good as possible. It's an abstract huge longshot, I know, but I just wanted to throw it out there in support of NGA since he was getting heat! :P

3. I'm glad we're on the same page, but I kind of knew that. I didn't misread your post, I know what you tried to say, and I don't dismiss that. All I'm saying is that it's wrong :) Not you, but the fact that games, and basically everything is controlled with profit in mind.. :) It might be right in some ways, but it's more wrong IMO.

4. The problem I see with the notion that, if everyone just buys intelligently we'll have better games, is that the vast majority is not informed or just doesn't care.. It's like with Coca Cola, Nestle or oil for that matter, people still buy it, even though it might stem from underpaid workers, or in the case for oil, not being infinite and causing damage to our environment some say.. A bit off track there, but you get my point :)

5. I actually quoted your whole post ;)

6. I'm for both refinement and sticking to what they know, as far as developing games goes, what I'm not for is holding back due to constraints. That's all :) So we agree!

7. Here's where we disagree, I wouldn't blame either the corporations nor the masses that support them, I'll rather blame the money system for allowing, encouraging and rewarding it.. Yeah, it's invisible, and yeah there doesn't seem to be anything that can change it, so it's easier to blame people, but they're not the real culprit in my opinion! :P

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 7:39:31 PM

YEAH! let's switch to communism so we can never move past the current generation of consoles as the state will have no reason to make progress in gaming. GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!! Thumb up like 10 times!

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 8:51:30 PM

Ishkur, you don't realize that your education is your drawback. I'm sorry to say that you have been indoctrinated into being a poor political thinker for life. Typically it is the more educated people who are most ignorant because they have been taught an opinion and don't do any of their own analyzing! I promise that any trade made between two people (fuguratively in this case Activision and the consumer) can benefit both! You socialist guys think that someone is always losing in every trade. Do yourself a favor and THINK!

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OPHIDIAN
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:22:44 PM
Reply

DICE have felt the need to upgrade their engine in order to compete with COD: MW (hate Treyarch's outings). IW are doing just fine without upgrading: why fix something that isn't broken?

I played BBC2 and was surprised by the lacklustre graphics, but then again Black Ops was a mess in my opinion too.

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Bugzbunny109
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:41:45 PM

So you think it is fine that IW can keep releasing games with little to no sort of significant improvement every year, while Dice updates their engine to release a fresh product? Have you seen BF3? COD could not even dream of its graphics.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:18:21 PM

Yea BC2 isn't the best graphical presentation but it is pretty much a sandbox shooter.

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Killa Tequilla
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:48:32 PM

What is the difference between BC2 & Battlefield?

I don't know much about both

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:05:35 PM

Bad Company seems more fictionalized while Battlefield seems to be based more on the real world military.

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NoSmokingBandit
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:43:00 PM
Reply

When their goal is to rehash the same game every year with minimal changes then yes, a new engine is counterproductive.
If, however, your goal is to make the best game you can, you should be pouring resources into making the best engine you can.

It just reinforces in my mind that Activision takes no pride in their own work, they care just about sales numbers. This is why i generally stick to exclusives. MGS4 would undoubtedly sell tons more copies if it were cross-platform, but theres a certain level of quality that can be reached only by focusing on one set of hardware.

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Highlander
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:22:54 AM

Indeed, this is confirmation that CoD is now little more than a military version of Madden with an annual rehash and roster update.

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ColTater
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:33:07 AM

I just see it as them being lazy sacks of poo. They don't care about the fans/customers, its all about the greenbacks. They basically are saying we don't want to spend the money on R&D when in comes to developing a new engine because all the SHEEPLE already are familiar and comfortable with the presentation style of COD and changing it could jepardize its ongoing success. This just really irks me. Seems like regression in an industy that strives for original and innovative IP's and new ideas.

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Oxvial
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:43:17 PM
Reply

Not bad, they are giving to those FPS zombies what they want.

Am I wrong? well sorry just stop buying their games so much.

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:46:42 PM
Reply

So, here we have the biggest game this generation, and all they want to do is offer another rinse and repeat of the original Modern Warfare? You can add this to a long list of reasons on why I don't play COD anymore.

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shootu
Friday, March 11, 2011 @ 12:12:23 AM

You stopped playing cause you suck. There are lots of lego games that im sure you are really good at.

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JMO_INDY
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:47:45 PM
Reply

A new COD entry in itself is counter productive to the industry as a whole IMO.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:18:29 PM

Indeed my friend. Indeed.

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TheCrazyMerc
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:05:36 PM
Reply

Battlefield 3!

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Douchebaguette
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:08:41 PM
Reply

Call of Duty has pretty much become the McDonalds of gaming...

Though fast food has it's differences. Like Guitar Hero, Activision's prized possession will crash sooner or later. Well perhaps progressively.

I have to ponder though: what if each game developed by Treyarch are perceived as scapegoats by Darth Kotick in the pursuit of Modern Wearfare's success / stall to it's inevitable downfall?

Meh.

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booze925
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:58:56 PM

i find ONE fatal flaw in your logic...
while McDonalds is whatever you say it is... its still more popular than the cross and shows no signs of slowing down and not about 2 crash sooner or l8er. so... yeah.

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Douchebaguette
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 6:26:18 AM

Well I did say fast food has it's differences =P.

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Sanji_Himura
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 8:23:07 AM

@booze925: As a relative of someone who buys these garbage games year after year, I would say that the fast food analogy is perfectly valid for two good reasons.

1. COD is a popular game, regardless of the hatred spewed by PS3 owners over DLC. The timed exclusivity deal should make clear that Activision is having COD developed with PC360 owners in mind and just simply porting it over to the PS3. They see the PS3 as a way of earning extra money at little to no risk to the publisher.

2. In the early days of McDonalds, you could NOT order a hamburger without onions(according to Heavyweights documentary series). You had to take it as they come. I remember my boss and I having these discussions when we are eating McD's that his hamburgers came with cheese when he was lactose intolerant. I say that to highlight a problem with COD. They do nothing to improve the hit detection and all these other common problems inherint in the experience, and yet they still sell.

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Simcoe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 8:48:31 AM

@Sanji_Himura I'm not sure I'd call the PS3 version of CoD a port. I remember CoD4, the first Modern Warfare, being one of the first games (along with Burnout Paradise), that looked and performed identical on the PS3 as the xbox. I do agree that it is a genre that goes over well with the xbox crowd. And with reference to PC players, I do remember the big hullabaloo when Activision announced that all multi-player PC games had to be played on their servers (though I don't know if that is still the same with Black Ops).

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:17:22 PM
Reply

LOL! Riiiight, because it's still 2006.

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cLoudou
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:21:20 PM
Reply

Die!

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DazeOfWar
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:23:56 PM
Reply

I've giving up on COD for good. Activision can't ever seem to get the online to ever work right. Black Ops is a joke on the PS3. I'll stick with my Sony exclusives and many other titles that actually work online.

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:47:19 PM

You can't go wrong with a PS3 exclusive.

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booze925
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:54:23 PM

unless you buy haze
FACE

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maxpontiac
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 8:13:59 AM

Negative booze. I actually enjoyed Haze.

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Godslim
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 4:52:14 PM

lol there are bad or average ps3 exclusives too ya know haze is a perfect example

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 9:31:33 PM

You know, now that I think of it, in all of the games that I've ever played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 had the best reliability and least connection issues. Oh how I'm loving the lag in Killzone 3. I thought the SMG's were useless until I saw their actual power on Botzone.

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JSwayze
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:38:20 PM
Reply

Modern Warfare 2.5 confirmed?

Haha...definitely not getting this

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NotGoofinAround
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:47:33 PM
Reply

Imagine a world where these developers can actually work on their art instead of being pushed by a corporation into putting out crap. This is the result of maximizing profits and getting a bigger and better paycheck for themselves. This corporate capitalist machine is responsible for destroying the art of games and they don't really care about whether we will truly enjoy the product they just put it out and we keep buying it. This isn't my opinion it's a fact.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:08:44 PM

Yea, they are called Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla Games, Insomniac, DICE, Kojima Productions just to name a few.

Stop being so dramatic drama queen. There ARE developers who care about their art. For some reason you refuse to acknowledge it. Activision isn't the only Publisher and Call of Duty isn't the only game.

AND...it is just your opinion. Not a very informed one at that.

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:43:59 PM

Ecomically speaking, I can't find fault in Activision or IW. It's smart business, and when a COD game sells 7-10 million copies, I don't blame them for still meeting the demand. But as Jawknee pointed out, there are plenty of devs out there who put out quality products.

Last edited by maxpontiac on 3/2/2011 11:45:56 PM

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 9:28:43 PM

The LAST thing that's valued in Socialist society is art. Go slurp on your hashed up ideals of Utopia somewhere else.

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Mog
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:50:36 PM
Reply

I cannot understand why this game almost dominates the gaming world. why? It makes no sense. I honestly feel really bad for those that only play COD and nothing else.

The same game engine...its true considering that EVERY COD GAME IS THE EXACT SAME.

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NotGoofinAround
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:44:33 PM
Reply

Jawk those developers are still shackled by production dates that are set by a group of corporate board members that get paid to make sure the games are out on time regardless of quality. I'm trying to put together your posts like a puzzle and I just keep running into name-calling and random thoughts. A better argument would be listing independent developers but even they are constrained by budget and believe me when you see Minecraft 8 in a decade it's not going to be visionary or ground-breaking. I guess I'm trying to say that when corporations force developers to put out games in a hurry without any actual improvements just to make a profit its not good for gaming in general. Would you argue that? Or maybe you just wanna call me a "marxist drama queen" again.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:53:54 PM

"Jawk those developers are still shackled by production dates that are set by a group of corporate board members that get paid to make sure the games are out on time regardless of quality."

Your point makes no sense. They HAVE and CONTINUE to release QUALITY games regardless of those board members and dead lines. You just seem to dislike corporations and THAT is why I call it marxist claptrap. With out these "greedy, evil, slimy corporations" THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY GAMES! Get off your high horse. Corporations and Capitalism are NOT the problem. Your argument is just as asinine as blaming a fat persons weight on the size of spoon they use. Your anti-corporate stance is nonsense. Sony is a corporation, they make the PS3's we play our games on. Microsoft is a corporation, they make the 360's we play our games on. They learn how to better their products through the competition capitalism creates. With out capitalism there would be no Playstation's or Xbox's to play the Art you seem to think is dead.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/2/2011 11:54:56 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:03:02 AM

NGA: You're being blinded by your ridiculous anti-capitalist agenda that doesn't really hold any water.

Every last publisher understands very well that only quality holds any sway in this industry. It's why just about every time you hear EA talk about quality, they say they're committed to releasing 9+ rated games, because they know how important review scores are. It's why the vast majority of the best selling games in history are also on most any "Best Games of All Time" list you will find.

No publisher who understands what sells in this industry is going to push a developer to put out crap. That's a theory that is easily disproved by the stats. If you would like to find other instances where big, world-killing corporations have a negative effect, I'm sure you can find them. But you're not making any legitimate points in regards to the business of gaming, and your bias seems to be of the blind collegiate kind, and not actually based in reality.

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Simcoe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:09:54 AM

There have been many instances when a studio or publisher decides that in the best interest of the title/franchise/studio/etc. to delay a game: GT5, SOCOM 4, Resistance 3 and LittleBigPlanet 2. Those are all very recent or upcoming titles too!

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booze925
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:52:32 PM
Reply

this won't impact modern warfare 3's sales in any way unfortunately.
unless DICE has a huge marketing campaign planned for battlefield 3. shame, battlefield 3 looks absolutely mind blowing

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:00:56 AM
Reply

I guess that's where we can't see eye to eye because I feel like there has been a plateau in gaming for a while and this lack of wanting to pay for a new engine for the most popular game in the world was a corporate decision. My point is easily made by listing these games that could have been better if they decided to work on them longer - Madden, GTA, COD, BC2, KZ3 - all blockbusters that should have been great but were only good, now that's an opinion. We are at the mercy of those decisions and they don't care about the quality of content they seem to care only about the bottom line. I wouldn't come to their aid so quickly my friend because they would throw you under the bus for a dime.

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booze925
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:06:27 AM

i think they'd throw u under a bus for your shoes... so they can sell them.
worth more than a dime i think

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:21:05 AM

"they don't care about the quality of content they seem to care only about the bottom line."

::facepalm::

Are you even reading our responses to your inane logic?

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:33:12 AM

All they said is that it would be counter productive. Many devs don't just uproot and throw away their engines after years of refinement. ANd really, CoD's are already some of the better looking multi-plats on the market and I doubt creating a whole new multiplat engine would do much to improve how it looks already.

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Douchebaguette
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:22:41 AM

Deadlines exist for a reason. Every human being plays it's part. What do you expect? People to wait for like 5 years to get an amazing product, which by then will be outdone by gadegts with superior technological capabilities? It's harsh competition but I don't see a better way for the market. No one would.

Besides. Many crap games make the better ones stand out more. Those games become a jem by the time you've completed it, and memory to forever immerse you. So there is a pro to your suggested con.

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spiderboi
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:32:28 AM
Reply

Lazy-a$$ SOBs....

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spiderboi
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:35:11 AM

Like c'mon, they get all that sales. It would be so much better if these were translated to either them giving the gamers dedicated servers, or an improved engine so that we can really say that their games are "next gen"

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Clamedeus
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:24:15 AM

I highly doubt it, they seem to only think of money instead of quality. I also heard the map packs for Black Ops, is a bit more costing than the MW2 ones. If that's so, that i think proves my point.

Because all of the PS exclusive games are cheaper on the map packs than what activision is going for.

If they can't give dedicated servers i doubt they will make a brand new engine on top of that.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 3/3/2011 7:25:27 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:33:31 AM
Reply

I agree, it would be counter-productive to spend money on making a better game when you can just copy and paste, call it new, and people hand over their money. Why make a better game when the crap sells so well?

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kraygen
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:25:55 PM

I agree, we keep calling it crap, but somewhere out there, there are 15 million people still buying this stuff. Why should they change, they're getting rich off basically nothing.

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:33:39 AM
Reply

O.K. Jawk so you're telling me the games I mentioned have gotten progressively better every year? It sounds like you've already drank their kool-aid but I'm not seeing that. That isn't a reason to try to troll me into a online frag-fest of insults. Make a counter-point to my argument that corporations are selling us the same games with a new coat of paint every single year (lack of new engine for COD, no improvements for Madden for 6 years, no new game modes for Killzone3, the dilapidated storyline of Rockstar games) or stop talking, you're wasting space on this issue.

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rossinator_99
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:53:02 AM

ummm...try the "REPLY" button, Goofy.

and good luck trying to out-debate jawknee...

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 3:52:51 AM

Some have and some haven't For every game you say that hasn't gotten better or progressed there are a dozen and a half others that have. Uncharted 2 was leaps and bounds better than Uncharted 1. LittleBigPlanet 2 progressed, Killzone 3 is better in ways, Infamous 2 looks loads better than the first. Bioshock Infinite is looking mighty nice. Battlefield 3 looks loads better than it's predecessors. Should I go on? The only Kool-Aid being drunk is by you with this nonsense anti-capitalist propaganda you have been spewing since you showed up here. You have been proven wrong again and again by me, Ben and others yet you still persist with this nonsense.

I am inclined to agree that Activision's only motivation is money hence why they feel no need to make Call of Duty any better but that's not the fault of Capitalism. It's the fault of ACTIVISION! They made the choice, not capitalism. Know knock it off with his BS Karl.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/3/2011 3:55:32 AM

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:48:23 AM
Reply

Ben I could easily say you're being blinded by big industry. It shouldn't be such an issue saying that the games coming out are sub-par. Is it wrong to have an opinion on the stranglehold corporations have on games today? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, is everyone taking crazy pills?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:52:38 AM

Nobody even knows what the hell you're talking about. You know, in order to have a debate, you actually have to respond to points made, but you're not doing that. You won't even respond to a single point I made.

Where are these sub-par games? Are you even old enough to remember the old days when the MAJORITY of titles on store shelves were so bad as to be almost unplayable? Do you even know where "all your base are belong to us" came from? Do you really think there's any comparison at all in terms of quality assurance?

You calling Madden, CoD, etc. "sub-par" is ridiculous. Maybe they are in your mind, but they are all better than 80-90% of the games on store shelves today, like it or not. Bad games don't sell and almost never do.

You apparently have absolutely no statistics to prove your theory, and the reason everyone is disagreeing with you is because you're dead flat WRONG. If you can't find a way to back up your argument with actual evidence, please do take your anti-corporate ravings elsewhere.

And learn to use the Reply button. But I don't want to see another reply from you unless you have something besides entirely personal and subjective ravings.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/3/2011 12:55:20 AM

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rossinator_99
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:58:55 AM

dang! ben beat me to the "reply" reply.

and just so i contributed...COD is fun for renting, but it definitely seems like the same game in a different chapter. (i only play sp)

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:12:46 AM

Yeah Ben I am an old-school gamer. The wolves are coming out so I guess I should wrap it up. My opinion is never going to change, the true potential of these IPs will never be realized because the greed of the publishers and corporations will not let them rework the engines as stated in the topic of this article, the evidence is at the top of the page. Every year they will pop out the same regurgitated COD game with new graphics but no actual inspiration because spending that much money isn't smart in a capitalist business model, therefore capitalism is ruining gaming.

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johnld
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:31:43 AM

hahaha, do you even play games or just want to post your anti capitalism rant so people can see it? too bad you're just making yourself look ignorant.

no new game modes in killzone 3....really? i havent played operation in other killzone games. warzone is also a mixture of a lot of different game modes. its actually great that they mixed them all up and objectives changes mid game. how many game modes can there be for a shooter?

If you're gonna use games as examples of games that dont develop or work on their art, i suggest that you not use exclusives. as it stands, exclusives are the games that push that bar further and further, especially sony exclusives. i mean sony gave their developers enough time and funding to come up with amazing games like infamous, killzone, uncharted, gran turismo, metal gear solid, resistance, ratchet and clank, littlebigplanet, MAG, warhawk, valkyria chronicles, heavy rain, modnation racers, and god of war. those games clearly shows that they are the best of the best out there right now. they may have been given a deadline but they definitely have all the resources they need to make it happen.

as for cod and madden, i agree that theyre basically the same game but there are small improvement with each iteration. the fact is that they dont need to make it completely different because people will buy them anyway. if it aint broke dont fix it. although that mentality irritates me, it makes sense from their point of view. if people dont buy their games for the reason that they dont want the same game each year then you'll see activision and their developers rushing to create a new game engine.

It seems to me that you are trying to make some kind of point (and face planting by the way) and loosely tying gaming to it. things like that just wont fly here because people on this site are a lot smarter than your average peers, especially concerning the gaming universe.

ohh, just in case you decide to skip past my arguement and choose to go onto another rant, my position on your "arguements" is...

:FaceDesk: when :FacePalm: is simply not enough..

Last edited by johnld on 3/3/2011 1:32:07 AM

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BTNwarrior
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:42:37 AM

Capitalism made gaming!

videogames would have never existed if it wasn't for capitalism, neither would home video, the internet, or any of this beloved personal technology that you are using today. And Capitalism is the only driving force for game creaters to improve upon their games. Because if you make something better people will buy it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:53:35 AM

I think you just need to settle down on the big business rants, save it for politics class.

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 3:58:46 AM

"My opinion is never going to change"

Good to know, now you can leave and go tell your neo-marxists professors about how you got owned on a video game thread regurgitating the nonsense he has spoon fed you.

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spiderboi
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:47:36 AM

dud, back-up your claims instead of just hammering around senselessly driving your point with nothing but air..

The general consensus for multiplats (and CoD being a close number 1) is that their full potential is not being met. But c'mon, people may be driven by hype, but they ain't stupid. No one will buy crap. The sales of succeeding CoDs attest to that. But like I mentioned, most of the people in this site do not like how it does not attempt to do a lot of innovation as compared to what LBP2, Uncharted 2, Infamous 2 to its predecessors.

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 7:42:37 PM

MY GOD! Please explain how the state would enhance games for us. I personally measure quality of life and gaming for that matter by how unrestricted your choices are in relation.

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:15:23 AM
Reply

To Infinity Ward it might be counter-productive, but to the millions upon millions of fans of the series, it would be a huge improvement. Better graphics, AI, collision detection, physics: A lot has changed since 2005 in gaming.

At least tell me that they'll craft a new engine when the next generation begins. But here's the thing, there are now four studios working on CoD, unless I'm mistaken. So, my question is this, why doesn't one of them take a couple of years off to create a new engine, while the others use the older engine. Sure. by the time the game with the newest engine is released, the differences will likely seem incremental due to improvements made on the old engine, but as with anything, there is only so far that you can push something old. Something new can go much, much further.
Peace.

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___________
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:42:49 AM
Reply

hes got a point, you cant just pull a new engine out of a hat!
DICE have been working on frostbite 2 for years, so unless IW have been secretly working on a new engine since MW2 came out i cant see this happening.

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Codeez
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 2:29:08 AM
Reply

Sounds like short term thinking IMO. Sure maybe a new engine now may be counter-productive, but in the long run if they want the Call of Duty franchise to continue to set sales records and be competitive with the likes of the B:BC or Killzone franchises quality wise then they will set aside plenty of resources NOW to get a new engine under development.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:52:54 AM

Wow, what an insanely offensive avatar!

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Codeez
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:47:50 PM

I can change it. I've had this avatar since my Highschool days and just began to associate it with myself. I guess over time I forgot how offensive it is. My apologies.

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King James
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:30:26 PM

What's offensive about it? <sarcasm>

White Jesus w/ a gun...no wait...2 guns. I get it.

Codeez, does it have something to w/ the Crusades? B/c thats what I see.



Last edited by King James on 3/3/2011 1:32:33 PM

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:38:33 PM

Ah the crusades... The typical fall back for people to claim Christianity has no basis.

Just remember... just as people do now with the Muslim religion... there will always be people who will USE religion for their own personal gain. Just because someone in power can do it, doesn't mean that's indicative of what that religion is about. The academic world knows this, and only the most bitter would use is as an excuse to give various faiths no credibility. Martin Luther was very much against the crusades, fyi, as was most of the living Christian world at the time they occured. But the papal kings had the power to do what THEY want, and by mixing religion at the time, it meant they didn't need an excuse. I have a hard time believing today's muslims extremists or the christians of the crusades (also extremists, really) really believed in their respective religions.

Anyways, I'll say nothing more as religion is sort of a faux-pas on this gaming site, as it inevitably draws out off-topic debates that often leave people feeling hurt and betrayed, but let's just leave it at this:

The crusades were evil, as anyone who uses faith to promote war and death is too. And some people have a deep and profound, personal love for Christ, and such an image can be hurtful whether you realize it or agree with their faith or not. I dunno. Just a sort of common courtesy, I guess.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/3/2011 7:43:31 PM

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FM23
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 2:39:33 AM
Reply

Hey...why waste time and effort when your already on top of game. Doesn't matter how many new engines other FPS's come up with...CoD is a household name like Crest, Oscar Mayor, Charlie Sheen...they have a brand.

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 4:48:55 AM
Reply

The only new game mode in KZ3 is Operations basically a shorter version of warzone that shows your character beating up your opponent at the end of the round. That is pretty far from the innovation I expected from GG. I can admit right now I got heated and lumped all games as being affected by big business bottom-liners, that's not true and I'm sorry for that. A lot of the games John mentioned are great, but I guess I just am expecting a lot more when it comes to innovation. I've been a Madden buyer since Sega 1996 and I feel like EA owes me more than what I've been given, this is the first year I haven't bought Madden because of lack of changes and I seriously haven't seen any improvements at all. I really don't see why my talking of big business is "wrong" in my response to this article, that's what this IW decision is about and talking about the effect of the capitalist business model on gaming is crucial to the conversation.

Sorry Jawk I refuse to get down to your level and make weak assumptions about you and call you names, c'mon man grow up.

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Qubex
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:21:28 AM

Would you call Heavy Rain, The Last Guardian, Trine 2, Little Big Planet, Home (platform under continued development) etc etc - innovative? All these games are being powered by pretty powerful engines that are constantly being re-developed.

As far as FPS engine development and innovation, I wouldn't say innovation is not possible or evident, it is... but I think it is more in the visual space rather than in the gameplay space. There slight variations to the way these games are being played with every new iteration... but it is still the same sort of thing with campaigns and multilayer mechanics that follow similarities we have all become fairly used to these days.

Bulletstorm is pretty innovative - every now and again a new gameplay mechanic is included, but the similarities are still evident... pretty obvious considering these are FPS's, you need to run around and shoot things.

I think Activision are milking the cow... and milking her again and again... one day the cow will die...

Battlefield 3 looks like a cut above the rest after seeing the preview, looks photo realistic and has animations that look like reality... plenty to get excited about I would say...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 3/3/2011 7:22:01 AM

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Clamedeus
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:35:20 AM

I agree Qubex, Battlefield 3 looks absolutely stunning.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:56:27 AM

@NGA
I'm not sure you have a right to keep your opinion. You can't even support it properly.

I'm with EVERYONE here except you. You haven't countered anyone's points. Sure, Jawk called you a Marxist, but aside from that, you are the ONLY one calling people names/claiming not to stoop to our level.

Stoop to our level? Seriously? Why don't you stoop UP to our level and have a REAL debate! You dont have to agree with anyone, but if you want people to at least RESPECT you and your opinion if they can't agree to it, then you should actually respond to people instead of merely hitting the reply button and pressing play on that tape recorder of yours.

Actually... scratch that... you don't even hit the reply button.

At least Jawknee and Ben reply to what you write... you just pretend like they say nothing and cling to the one or two sentences out of a hundred that you think you have a chance against.

Be a man. FRIG.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/3/2011 9:57:45 AM

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:23:49 AM
Reply

You can't blame the studios, I'm sure they got their hands tied with Activision forcing them to release it on time.

And Activision won't change anything as long as CoD keeps on raking billions.

We'll see how long CoD can keep it's momentum but not anytime soon I'm sure.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 8:25:35 AM

they would have to drop a really bad cod game to pry away all the hardcore online players, somehow they've managed to sustain that momentum for years now. i just wish they would bring the ps3 version up to par. not becuase i play it, but becuase i get sick of hearing about the inferior ps3 version.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 10:19:30 AM
Reply

No more posts, NGA. Take your propaganda elsewhere.

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Highlander
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:28:23 AM

Indeed.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:47:58 PM

Propaganda is only fun as satire (see my avatar) :)

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:09:50 PM

Indeed World. Haha...Love your avatar.

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King James
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 1:28:56 PM

But World,

Who...is...World?

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King James
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 11:50:58 AM
Reply

Man, who let the Red in?

Anyways back to games... CoD better get the cracking on something b/c that engine's been looking dated since MW1. And that BATTLEFIELD 3... F'n ridiculous! I say that trailer and instantly said "Where you at, CoD?!" And I don't even play the Battlefield games. But I'm playing this one!

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kraygen
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:30:17 PM
Reply

"That would be counterproductive. An engine takes years and years to develop and get right."

In layman's terms,

"We could care less about quality, we are making tons of money and we barely have to work for it."

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 12:48:22 PM

That's about the size of it.

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 5:26:18 PM
Reply

My brother told me I would get banned from this site so there it is I guess, well I can only show you the door you have to walk through it sorry to bother you guys with my opinions. btw elitism is just as bad as capitalism.

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 5:53:35 PM

GET LOST!

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 7:39:15 PM

Whatever dude. No one's being elitist. We just asked for facts. You provided none. Hard to blame us.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/3/2011 7:39:26 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 8:02:45 PM

Nobody banned you.

You just showed up with the intention of getting banned. You stated a completely merit-less argument without providing an ounce of evidence to back up your side, and insulted everyone.

And by the way, considering that you're not capable of listening to another opinion other than yours, and you're about as close-minded as can be, I'm relatively certain you're the epitome of an "elitist."

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:17:56 PM

Comment Pending Moderator Approval is another way to say banned. Censoring my commentary is not going to stop people from seeing my older posts unless you remove those as well, but then you would be proving my point of elitism. And I'll say again my argument's evidence is the article itself.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:23:51 PM

No, it was pending because you put a link in. All links need to be approved.

And I'm not going to be approving your trolling propaganda crap. You showed up to start a political fight for no reason whatsoever.

Make one more post that is about your crusade, and THEN you'll be banned. Trust me on that.

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NotGoofinAround
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 9:37:30 PM

ok sorry ben

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 8:34:36 PM

NGA, if you are complaining about moderator approval you had better take a look at the umm.. left end of the political spectrum where you have no free speech... Besides if you think the United States is pure capitalist you are dead wrong and should actually STUDY politics. I can assure you that the vast majority of the problems with the United States stem from government intervention.

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tes37
Thursday, March 03, 2011 @ 6:56:23 PM
Reply

Maybe there's nobody left at Infinity Ward who knows how to make a new engine. They could call Respawn.

Capitalism is the greatest monetary system the world has ever seen. Just my educated two cents.

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 @ 8:30:52 PM
Reply

Please everyone: consider that it may very well not be worth it to create a new engine. How much more can they really do with the XBOX anyway? I would only agree with your opinion if we didn't have a limiting factor such as the XBOX.

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