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Ueda: "I'd Like To Make An FPS"

He has already given us two of the most artistically accomplished titles in gaming history, and a third is on the way.

But even with ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian to his name, game designer guru Fumito Ueda isn't immune to the seemingly universal lure of the first-person shooter. In speaking to Edge about his development future, Ueda said he would like to branch out and try something new:

"If I get the chance, there are things that I'd like to make or challenge myself with, yes. For instance, I'd like to make 2D games. Right now, that's what I'd like to do - it may change tomorrow. Oh, and an FPS. Yes, I'd like to make an FPS. I play quite a lot of FPS games in my free time."

Interestingly, he also said both ICO and Colossus didn't sell very well because they "weren't good enough." ...that might one of the most bizarre statements ever, but let's not forget that Ueda is one of those perfectionists. Our theory is that there just weren't enough people to appreciate those gems, but we could be wrong.

As for a Ueda-made FPS, don't freak out. Look what he's done in the past; he could really put a very interesting twist on a genre that desperately needs an evolution of some kind. Try to be optimistic.

Tags: team ico, fumito ueda, the last guardian, sotc

3/10/2011 10:40:31 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (54 posts)

OPHIDIAN
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 10:51:44 AM
Reply

I'm actually interested.

He could provide a FPS with a storyline that doesn't go blah blah blah nuclear weapons... blah. blah, blah... save the world...blah, blah, blah.... only you can do it.

lol Loved duty calls.

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ronny_rtw
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 2:57:19 PM

It would be better if he actually makes a game in First Person View and not a real FPS.
War scenerios are mostly generic and not distinguishable. First Person View is the best perspective to immerse a player.
It would be great to see a game from him with creativity overflowing from every corner.
But I wouldn't mind a war game made by him.
The fact is it will be epic.

Last edited by ronny_rtw on 3/10/2011 2:58:01 PM

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shootu
Sunday, March 13, 2011 @ 9:41:20 PM

I have been saying it for years. There is no need to make a shooter game first person or third person. Make the game do both. Its not that difficult. Racing games have been doing it for years, so why the hell cant you change your view in shooter games?!?!?!

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NoSmokingBandit
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 10:55:28 AM
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Ico and SotC were good enough, its the gamers that are at fault here. I dont know a single person who has played SotC and doesnt love it.

I dont think i like hearing Ueda talking about future projects until TLG at least has a solid date.

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556pineapple
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:03:13 AM
Reply

FPS's are overdone by more than a small margin. That being said, I would buy this game the day it comes out.

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:03:23 AM
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"I'd Like To Make An FPS"

No you wouldn't Ueda. That's just crazy-talk. Just stick to what you've been doing. The FPS side of gaming is a crowded clot of fanboys and stagnated ingenuity. If we're ever to ever overcome this FPS crowded market we need more guys like you to give gamers reasons to look somewhere that than the online twitchers fix.

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:30:16 AM

I'd give you more thumb's up if I could.

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:43:36 PM

He's already proven himself a capable game maker. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot. Chances are any shooter he does make will be loads better than most of whats on the market today.

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OPHIDIAN
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 6:41:38 PM

Why do you want to 'overcome' it?

Even Ueda himself says he is an FPS fanatic.

@shadow:

I've given him an extra thumb up for you even though I disagree.



Last edited by OPHIDIAN on 3/10/2011 6:42:53 PM

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shootu
Sunday, March 13, 2011 @ 9:43:19 PM

Make it both! I cant stand 3rd person the control on every game is complete crap.

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kraygen
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:05:37 AM
Reply

If he wants to do fps, so that he can put his spin on it, I'd be interested to see where it goes.

If he just wants to do it because he likes the standard fps and he thinks it would be fun to make one like the others, I'd be sorely disappointed.

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just2skillf00l
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 8:14:43 PM

Kraygen,

Couldn't have said it better!

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tridon
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:28:03 AM
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That'd be an interesting experiment. After ICO and SotC, I'm willing to play ANYTHING created by Fumito Ueda for now and on.

On a side-note, I found it to be incredibly sad that IGN recently published an article that essentially made Ueda look like a giant sexist. So what if his main characters are always male. You don't go asking Eidos why Tomb Raider always features Lara Croft, do you? Absolutely ridiculous! It's that kind of Western bull$#it that scares away the Eastern geniuses. I was so pi$$ed off when I read that article!

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:35:47 AM

I actually thought it was a pretty interesting editorial. And I read that story before- about how Ueda made some off colored comments about how a female lead would have to wear a skirt and wouldn't be "strong" enough do things a male character would. Sounds like a sexist way of thinking to me.

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Miggy
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:59:19 AM

Yeah I read that article as well. While I understand the issue that they were trying to raise, I think it was looked into too deeply. I don't think they should have singled him out. They never asked anyone else why their main characters are always male.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 12:05:19 PM

They did unfairly single him out. And they even admitted that there was somewhat of a language barrior with the translator. I think they were trying to bring to the light the sexist views in the country as a whole. Which I can't comment on because I know nothing about it.

However the reason they singled him out was because of the comments he previously made at the TGS. He wanted Ueda to further clarify the comments he made, and unfortunately he seemed to dig himself a bigger whole in the interview.

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 3/10/2011 12:09:02 PM

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 12:29:04 PM

No one gets mad at game developers when female characters start out with +1 magic and males start with +1 strength. Who's to say a man can't be as smart as a woman or a woman can't start as strong as a man?

In case no one noticed, part of humanity's diversity involves the fact that not everyone is the same gender! *GASP* It should be expected, that although there are exceptions to the rule, as there are with most rules, each gender is pre-disposed to certain strengths that the other, on average, does not always match!

Guess what? For example, women are often more predisposed to being people-focused, and in many cases, are much better at seeing a person for who they are than men, on average, are. Again... there are exceptions, but as a rule, it's true.

And in this case... guess what? Women are pre-disposed to having less -MUSCULAR- (not physical, as that's too broad) strength (particularly upper-body) than men. Again, some exceptions, but as a rule, it's true. Effing accept it (not talking to anyone here specifically, just in case).

I mean... look at the olympics! How come race times for men are faster than women? Why not have men and women compete with each other directly? The answer is obvious. So, to me, in the case of his belief that a male character is more likely to possess the physical strength of a certain requirement, he's got a point.

As for his comment about a female character having to wear a skirt, I see that as more of a commentary on the society of gaming. It's true. Female protagonists are often shown with lots of skin revealed. I mean, this site has entire articles dedicated to Aya Brea having shredded clothing. I don't read that as him saying that's where women in gaming belong, but in order to conform to the society of gaming that has already been established... he's got a point. He would have to. You KNOW people will just talk about female protagonists who aren't hot and sexy or not wearing revealing or tight clothing as "meh" characters with boring character design. It just IS that way. (doesn't mean I think it's right. It's just the way it is.)

So yeah. His comments can be seen as "off-color", but they're honest, and they hold some truth.

On the other hand, it's not like everything in his games is exactly "realistic", either. So why can't an impossibly skinny and shapely woman grasp a thin mountain ledge by the tips of her middle and index fingers after falling 50 feet? I mean, if it's in the name of equality and fairness, just go for it! No one will blame you! Unless, of course, you cover her up with something silly like clothes.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:09:46 PM

Underdog, while I agree with you about some of your points, Ueda's underlying message was pretty clear. We're not talking about the olympics here, he was asked why all of his main characters are male and seemed to settle on the fact that "girls wear skirts" and "wouldn't be physically able to transcend the environments the same way boys could". He also said something along the lines of girls not being acrobatic enough. Has this guy never seen any of the "Bring It On" movies??? I mean we're not talking about Olympic athletes, 2 out of the 3 of his main characters are young boys, likely around the age of 10. How much stronger are boys that age anyway?? And the "girls wear skirts" comment is like a statement from the 1950s. S*** like this would never fly in our country. I find it slightly disturbing that people would defend comments like these.

He could've just said "I wanted to make a male character" and I would've been okay with that.

Its pretty clear that by him just saying these comments in passing like its no big deal, there is a pretty big cultural difference between the Japanese and the more sensitive American culture.

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 3/10/2011 1:11:14 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:13:38 PM

Why didn't they write the same article about CliffyB and his obsession with muscle bound, roided out freaks?

Sexist? Give me a freaking break. Talk about Political Correctness at its worst.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/10/2011 1:14:00 PM

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:12:51 PM

I don't really agree with Ueda at all on his reasonings for it, but I can understand him. Girls wear skirts: Not many of them in my world, but he's worried about the free camera control and the perversion of some people. Look, if some people are that hard-up, they've never heard of the internet, and let 'em go for it. It doesn't hurt me or anyone else, so why bother.

The argument of physicality is also questionable. While it's true that men and women generally have very different body structures, at the age of ten, most of those differences are still largely negligible. The argument of strength when his characters are so young is slightly misguided. Perhaps though, it is because of the growth of the character mentioned in the article here the other day.

Above all though, we must remember that this is Japanese sentiment, and doesn't come from our culture. Over there, women are still largely subservient to the whims and wishes of their man. They are, in general, far daintier than our women, and they still attach themselves to the oldentime notions of what a female 'should' be. It's a cultural gap, and the author of that asinine simply needs to grasp that fact.
Peace.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 11:33:28 AM
Reply

bizzare statements have become somewhat a specialty from japanese developers. it's like they're having an indentity crisis, and are starting to crack. we have not even seen a game from this guy this generation. how about he releases a game before he branches out?

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Alienange
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 12:41:42 PM
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I'm in a dilemma over this comment. One part of me completely agrees with Temjin001 in that I don't think Ueda would enjoy putting out an FPS at all and that we do indeed need devs like him to give us gamers real gaming alternatives to the run of the mill scrap we get on a regular basis.

However, if there is a man who would more than likely make one of the best stories in an FPS ever, it would be him. Now that to me sounds like a very interesting game. I know I'd buy it and if Ueda can make a fortune off of some FPS, then I think after all these years, he deserves it.

But does an FPS sell into the millions upon millions without superior multiplayer? Not really. And there's not much room for Ueda's talents in a mp component. So would his FPS really sell that much? Would it end up being an exercise in futility?

My only comfort is that the original Bioshock did ok, and I would imagine his FPS would be similar.

It's your call Ueda, and I wish you all the best.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:01:52 PM

i agree with temjin 100% without feeling any sort of dilema over it. the market is oversaturated with fps. ueda should stick to what he does best, imo.

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Victor321
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 5:00:21 PM

And that is emotionally engaging games. If Ueda can make an FPS an emotionally engaging game, then I'm all for it. One way that developers can grow further is to get out of their comfort zone, and I accept and respect that.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 12:49:35 PM
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Oh noes!

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Oxvial
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:00:13 PM
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No, it would be a good game but he wouldn't top his other works going fps.

Last edited by Oxvial on 3/10/2011 1:00:23 PM

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DjEezzy
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:10:00 PM
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@ Miggy...
I hate to admit it but many aspects of gaming are looked into way too deeply. By critics and gamers alike. Every thing from a characters hair to how violent a game is taken to a whole new level by many people. Sometimes i think people just blow things out of proportion on purpose. To get a rise out of others. Seems like many people forget that they are just games. It's a hobby. I'm a dj and i don't freak out everytime a bad song is released. I'm an avid movie watcher but i don't go crazy when a bad movie comes out. I think people just need to chill.

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:18:34 PM
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Meh, I'd be willing to give him a chance. He's already proven he knows how to make a great game.

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Qubex
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 9:11:01 PM

I agree... i think with what he has proven in the past, he could make something quite epic in all senses of the word!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Kiryu
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 1:24:41 PM
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Yes ueda mentioned this earlier i hope he makes a First Person Game but not a First Person Shooter!

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Oxvial
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 5:40:07 PM

Okay that sounds better, something kinda Elder Scrolls from him would be great.

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nilos95
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 2:01:48 PM
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Ueda's FPS would be the revolution of the genre so I don't mind him making one. After all, he can make a masterpiece out of anything!

In Ueda we trust&freedom to dev's creativity!

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ronny_rtw
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 2:41:18 PM
Reply

"ICO and Colossus didn't sell very well because they "weren't good enough.""
I have to agree with you, Ben. This statement is really bizzare. Sales are not an indicator for the quality of games. Many games have proven themselfs to be the new reference in terms of quality and playability. One example is Demon's Souls. Though, I can't judge how ICO and SotC were, because I unfortunately missed the PS2 era, but I am dying to get my hands on the remastered edition. All in all Mr. Ueda should not equate quality with sales.

"Oh, and an FPS. Yes, I'd like to make an FPS. I play quite a lot of FPS games in my free time." This statement worries me much more.
FPS are the most popular genre at this moment. The numbers of FPS are rising and he wants to do an FPS? Seriously, this generation is exploding by the pressure of incoming FPS. But I have to say that I would instantly buy an FPS made by him, because of his sheer creativity, but it ultimately will fail, because sales will be close zero when the next CoD arrives.

If he really wants to make such a game, he should make a game with First Person View but not a FPS.

Last edited by ronny_rtw on 3/10/2011 2:41:39 PM

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Minishmaru
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 3:13:34 PM
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I'd like a FPS that tells the story of other countries. I'm pretty sure out of all the history my history teachers have taught me that someone is interested in telling the story from another perspective! Tell me the story of Japan and what happened there, Korea, China, Taiwan! And i'm not talking about Dynasty Warriors stuff either.

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 3:24:45 PM
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"ICO and Colossus didn't sell very well because they "weren't good enough"

I don't know why but this statement reminds me of Capcom and SE and it worries me.

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Jawknee
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 3:31:37 PM

Nah, What it tells me is he's wants to make his games better(if that's even possible). Square and Capcom just went straight to selling out like chumps.

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DjEezzy
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:11:04 PM
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I get that from what he's saying too. There is no rule that says just because you made a certain game that you can't make another type. He's already proven himself. At least he's trying to broaden his horizons instead of being a one trick pony. Yes FPS's are flooding the game market. That will change as it always does. I mean there was a time when there was a racing game every other week. Sims, Kart, Arcade. They were coming out non stop!!! Like it or not, there is potential in FPS's. There are alot of things you can do with a FPS. I think the genre needs someone like Ueda to bring new life to it. I really like shooters but there are alot of rehashes and re skins of current shooters and it's getting pretty old. But Killzone3 brought me back to why i like them so much. It's fresh. It's bad ass. Brink is another one that looks fresh and unique and totally bad ass with parkour!!! Awesome. The video on GameTrailers is awesome. I definitely think people looked too much into what that guy said about snipers. Seemed like he was more talking about one shot kills more than no snipers in the game.

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Eld
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:14:25 PM
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Vanguished was good, refreshing and innovative and look how it fared. What fuels FPS craze is multiplayer and millions of people playing it for the sake of competing. That is all... competition.

Last edited by Eld on 3/10/2011 4:14:51 PM

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:19:54 PM
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Hmm... ok. I like the way that his games have been very understated. They've never really been about the action, but rather what you do and what you have to do. It's about an emotional connection through minimalism. The Last Guardian is going to continue this trend. But would he follow that same pattern in the creation of an FPS? That genre, by its nature, is loud, brash and often crass. Ueda could put a whole new spin on it, and create something truly unique and amazing, or it could fall by the wayside. I wouldn't have any problem with him doing one, just to see what he can do, but I'd much rather see him continue to do the products that he is so familiar with. They may not sell well, but they are well loved by almost everyone that plays them, just because of what they are. How many games can you say that about?
Peace.

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DjEezzy
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:27:57 PM
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Yeah but the simple fact remains. It takes money to make games. Alot of it. I see both sides. His games are amazing and kind of cerebral and very artistic. But if they don't sell then whats the point. It's sad that money prevails over Artistic vision most of the time. But it's reality. Making games is a business to these guys and their publishers. Not to mention Shareholders. Either way, i'd still love to see what he could do with a FPS.

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A2K78
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:28:15 PM
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"In speaking to Edge about his development future, Ueda said he would like to branch out and try something new"

Kaz Yamauchi have said the very same thing, but given the utter conservative/playing it safe attitude of Sony these days, these guys will never get to realize anything beyond what they've been making. When it come things like this the only solution is for them to completely divorce themselves from Sony and go independent..in fact I long for the day(and can see it happening) that Yamauchi leaves Sony for an independent venture in the same manner as Mikami, Yuji Naka-san,etc..

"ueda should stick to what he does best, imo."

Why should he? For someone of obvious great talent he should be free to explore game types beyond what he have been making.

"Ueda's FPS would be the revolution of the genre so I don't mind him making one."

How can a genre that have been more of the same be revolutionized?

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 6:03:06 PM

Yamauchi did say that, but his love is racing. He knows that that is where his strength lies and taking on any other project would risk letting himself, and his fans, down. I firmly believe that the choice is entirely up to him. You don't seem to understand that most people will generally latch onto something that they are good at, and enjoy doing, and will gladly do that forever. Look at writers and film directors; they tend to stick to one genre as well.

And your last comment makes no sense, whatsoever: "How can a genre that have been more of the same be revolutionized?"
Just because improvements have generally been incremental, doesn't mean that someone with vision can't come along and cast a new light on the fundamental elements.

But of course, you're the genius, not me.
Peace.

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sirbob6
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 4:36:53 PM
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That might be a really good thing for the FPS genre. Something to get it out of the stagnant pool it is drowning in now. Plus a FPS could actually have *gasp* emotion

Last edited by sirbob6 on 3/10/2011 5:29:39 PM

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FxTales
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 5:43:20 PM
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If I didn't read through the article and just read the title alone I would have eye rolled, but because he said he plays them a lot in his spare time says to me that it'd more likely be personal rather than a dive into pleasing the majority. Regardless I think he's earned the right to tackle whatever genre he wants.

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A2K78
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 7:28:27 PM
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"You don't seem to understand that most people will generally latch onto something that they are good at, and enjoy doing, and will gladly do that forever."

Its funny you say this, but explain to me why the industry have been seeing a rash of defections into independent ventures. I guess it must have something to do with wanting to do something different as oppose to being on a endless grind of doing the same thing over and over.


"Look at writers and film directors; they tend to stick to one genre as well."

I don't see George Lucas making endless Star War films, even though this what the built his career on; I don't see Pixar doing endless animated films now given the fact live-action films is thier next frontier, and list goes on.

Now what does all of this say? It say that these entities see potential success beyond playing it safe with what they know or good at.

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Lairfan
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 7:55:41 PM

The only kind of movies Pixar has ever made have been animated movies. And the only thing other than Star Wars that George Lucas has been involved in since making TPM is the 4th Indiana Jones movie. In short, your examples to support your opinion are terrible, no matter whether I agree with your opinion that game devs should have the freedom to branch out.

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 8:27:24 PM

Thanks Lairfan.

But I have more to add. Please enlighten me as to these live-action films that Pixar is working on. I'm afraid that there are none, however I do concede that one of their filmmakers is working on 1906, but that is in collaboration with Warner Bros., and has apparently stalled production. Very convincing.

As Lairfan pointed out, the upcoming Red Tails is the first project since 1994 to not be related to Indy or SW. Again, very convincing argument there.

And what 'rash of defections' are you talking about? Companies latching onto the app market... doesn't count. There are more independent projects being released on PSN/XBL, but that's only because it is a viable place for smaller developers to get their foot in the door. I suppose if you want to list Platinum games and Insomniac, I'll give you credit, but they're still attached to larger companies that have some sway over their products.

But, I never did disagree with your comment that devs should be free to do as they will. I just feel that most feel comfortable with what they know.
Peace.

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FM23
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 7:31:31 PM
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Still need to play these games. Never heard of them until last year.

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Lairfan
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 7:57:46 PM
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You know, I wouldn't mind an FPS at all from Ueda. Everyone else on here is saying "Oh no please, don't cater to the masses!", but if you hadn't already noticed:

1. This guy's a creative and artistic genius.
2. He apparently plays FPS's all the time.

So I say let him make an FPS (not just a first-person game, a full on first person shooter, as long as he wants to do it), and let it be the best FPS ever.

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just2skillf00l
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 8:16:33 PM
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There's nothing wrong with a little inspiration...just a little.

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LanceNLT
Thursday, March 10, 2011 @ 8:18:56 PM
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"Try to be optimistic." Well.. okay, Ben I will try as it IS Fumito Ueda after all. I can't say I'll be able to maintain that optimism unless you end up being right and Ueda's FPS does in some twisted way turn out beatiful, creative, and original like ICO and Shadow of the Colossus. I really don't like FPS's at all. I think I like Halo but I've never owned an Xbox or Xbox 360 and I've never played the campaign for any of them either, so I'm still on the fence with those. Otherwise Killzone, Call of Duty, Gears of War, and the rest REALLY don't interest me. I'd much, much, MUCH prefer to see a Ueda-made 2D game. Whether it be retro designed like Cave Story or designed with modern resources as with Donkey Kong Country Returns or LittleBigPlanet, I'll happily take either. I am, and always will be, a really big fan of 2D games and retro design and, sadly, I'm probably one of the last, too.

Last edited by LanceNLT on 3/10/2011 8:26:05 PM

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BigBoss4ever
Friday, March 11, 2011 @ 1:13:53 AM
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interesting for him to say that, but how serious his statement is yet to be tested and verified in time. for now, I have more faith in him to produce the most artistic game of our time, namely, The Last Guardian!!!

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 3/11/2011 1:14:08 AM

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___________
Friday, March 11, 2011 @ 1:32:24 AM
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FPS?
OH GOD NO!
dont we have enough already???????????????????
a 2D game though would be nice!
id love to see a 2D puzzle platformer like what shadow complexes experimental weapons mode is.
one of my favorite downloadable games!
only thing i miss my 360 for.

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jonny_wonny
Sunday, March 13, 2011 @ 11:20:03 AM
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Seriously guys, there's nothing inherently wrong with the FPS genre. It's just a perspective (in the visual sense of the word). In my mind, an FPS is just a game in first person view mode. Of course, we can't entirely ignore the "Shooter" at the end of the phrase, but I think we can all agree that there are many FPSs that are light on the shooting. For example, Portal was an awesome game that fell under the genre of FPS, even though you don't shoot people (yes I know there's the portal gun, but I'm talking about in the classical sense...)

But even games that do involve a good amount of shooting, they can still provide an amazing experience. For example, Half-Life 2 is still one of my favorite games of all time.

Of course, at this point I think it would be good for me to make the distinction between a single play FPS and a multi player FPS. Both the games I listed were great because of their single player experiences. Of course, that's not to say you couldn't have equally compelling gameplay in a multiplayer setting, but for whatever reason, games usually don't. But I'm going to bet that when Ueda says he wants to make an FPS, he's referring to the single play sort, and not another twitch based game like TF2.

But seriously, what's even more important is that Ueda wants to make a 2D game! That should have been the highlight of this post! Of course, that's not as controversial. Who doesn't like a good 2D game?

Last edited by jonny_wonny on 3/13/2011 11:21:38 AM

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