BioWare: The Romances In DAII Are "For Everyone"

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 12:53:04 PM
Reply

In the first Dragon Age, I refused to initiate a homosexual relationship.

Didn't purchase the second one..

10 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:08:31 PM
Reply

Think this kind of stuff is pretty unnecessary in games. What's the point? Final Fantasy games got along for 3 console generations and never had crap like this it them. I want to play games to get away from this crazy world from time to time. Not be to propagated with lifes inadequacies. But too each his own I guess.

Though Fable III had some pretty homoerotic moments in it as well with the man on man embrace dancing and hand holding. Why didn't anyone complain about that game?

15 up, 4 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:31:04 PM

Technically in FF7 you can get cloud to take any character on a date, including the male characters.

Just saying.

2 up, 3 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:39:00 PM

There was nothing homoerotic about that though. You weren't "starting a relationship" or embracing Barret in Clouds arms. That was meant as a joke and it was quite funny at the time even for a 16 year old kid. This is just ridiculous and meant for cheap shock value.

11 up, 1 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:42:26 PM

As for FF I know, I just had to throw it out there because you specifically mentioned final fantasy.

As for this though, I really don't think bioware did it for shock value, I think whether we like it or not it's a part of the world we live in.

As you said, it's in Fable and no one complained there, which actually surprises me because usually people who make a big deal out of this kinda stuff are always looking for an opportunity to rant and rave.

0 up, 3 down

Oxvial
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:45:10 PM

MS Exclusives always get a VIP treat ;), of course you aren't going to hear complains.

4 up, 1 down

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:48:31 PM

You do have a point. What is the point of sex in games anyways?

10 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:54:48 PM

I don't know Max. I find it pointless either way you lean. Straight or hetero. Same with movies. Movies like 300 and Watchmen are two of my favorite movies but I found the raunchy sex scenes pointless, silly and that they greatly devalued the movies in my eyes.

11 up, 4 down

TheAgingHipster
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:59:02 PM

I think it depends on the game. Heavy Rain, for example, was all about the drama, so the potential sex scene had a place in the overall story and character development and didn't feel like something just tacked on for shock value and sales. In Mass Effect, where it's all about developing your own Shepard and letting them be who you want them to be, again, the romance scenes serve a purpose, especially if you romance an ongoing character like Liara. But in games like this, yeah, I can see how it could be considered to devalue the game a bit.

7 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:12:12 PM

I supposed if a director or developer feels the need to include a sex to further advance the narrative if done in a classy way I wouldn't find it objectionable. I didn't find the sex scene in Heavy Rain to be objectionable or too over the top. I haven't played Mass Effect so I can't speak to that but its scenes like the one in the Watchmen that I find completely unnecessary and silly to watch. hahaha

3 up, 1 down

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:59:02 PM

I don't see how sex in a game or a movie does anything but attract attention. Most people are smart enough to figure out what is going to happen.

Maybe I am just old fashioned. When it comes to sex, I like to experience it. Not watch it.

10 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:13:35 PM

helaluha, ha ha. that scene was pretty over the top. decent movie. liked 300 a lot more. gerald butler was awesome in that movie. "we'll put their names to the test." awesome stuff.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:17:42 PM

It's pretty simple, the goal of the western RPG is to give you tons of freedom while trying to hold together a decent story. This includes freedom to have a pretend relationship or not.

Because you can, it affects the overall drama when that characters personal interests get in the way of your relationship so that you have to make choices which will affect something that you chose to do in the game.

It adds to the overall depth of the story no matter how you look at it because they aren't just generic sex options unless you want them to be, they can be story altering experiences.

4 up, 0 down

Milonakis
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:02:12 PM

The homoeroticness in fable is to cater to the m$soft players.

4 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:16:19 PM

Jawknee said, "... straight or hetero..."

Same thing!

*snicker* Sorry bud. Just having fun with you.

^.^

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:35:37 PM

Oops. 0.o ahaha

0 up, 0 down

Jalex
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:10:06 PM
Reply

Being a female Shepard and engaging in a romance with Liara in 'Mass Effect' is the closest I've come to exploring the homosexual options in a BioWare game. It's just not for me.
But I don't mind that they give players the choice (it's what BioWare games are all about, right?) Virtually all the companions one can recruit do and say things that I (in character and personally) don't approve of. That's just the way the game is, and the way life is really.

8 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:12:53 PM
Reply

What's the big deal? So what if Bioware decided to make the first few propositions from males? Sure, the majority of the population is straight, but that shouldn't really have any bearing on a game, particularly not if it is open choice and you get more options later on down the track.

But this makes me wonder... Has there ever been a game where the main character is homosexual, and he's trying to woo a man? Think Uncharted, but with Elena as a male. I'd be interested in seeing a dev do that, just for the giggles.
Peace.

3 up, 13 down

nilos95
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:02:36 PM

noooo....that's a really bad example with Uncharted! One of the game's charms is the female cast!

7 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:06:56 PM

I agree, I just meant that narrative in a different game.

0 up, 0 down

ColTater
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:16:29 PM
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Haven't played the final product, only the demo, so my question is do females make passes at your character as well with the same/equal amount of opportunities? If not, then I call the whole "rights" of anyone response bogus. If it is equal then I wouldn't see it as that much of an issue. I'm hetero, and not homophobic in anyway. Heck, I say to each their own, but I should have to same (for lack of a better word) "rights" to be able to enjoy a game without that being repetitively put in my face.

I guess if it bothered me that much though, I just wouldn't play the game anymore.

Last edited by ColTater on 3/25/2011 1:21:49 PM

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:18:58 PM

Yes, Equal opportunities to romance both sexes.

2 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:16:37 PM
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Yet, somehow, I imagine that the aforementioned poster would have no problem with female-female interactions.

Feh.

6 up, 0 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:43:04 PM

Lol, I have a feeling the response would be "2+2 > 2"

1 up, 1 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:37:11 PM
Reply

I'll be honest and say that I don't agree with homosexuality.

However I don't think they should have any less rights than the rest of us. Regardless of our opinions, the truth is we all have the same rights. The only way to put romance into a game is to do it fairly for everyone.

If there was only heterosexual romance, it could be seen poorly in the eyes of the homosexual community and if there were only homosexual options vice versa.

The truth is bioware wasn't trying to anger anyone, If in the game your male character gets hit on by another guy, it's not like you are required to pursue that romance. Just like you're not required to date someone of the same sex just because they ask you out.

It's a touchy subject for a lot of people, but I'm not willing to let anyone tell me who I can be with romantically, so I don't think it's my place to determine it for others.

6 up, 3 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:39:27 PM

Also like to point out that this is just a video game and no one is required to play it at all. Don't like it, don't play it.

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:42:15 PM

I agree with you but having games that support their behavior isn't a human rights issue and it kind of does a disservice to those who really do suffer under human rights abuses by trying to make it one or by placing it in the same category. In western countries and even most Eastern European countries, gays rights aren't abused. People need to focus their attention on the middle east and how they treat gays if they really care about making it a human rights issue.

4 up, 5 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:45:52 PM

I agree that it being in the game isn't a rights issue, but if they put romance in the game and didn't include homosexual options, then someone would have said they were biased against homosexuals.

If they had only put female on female homosexual relationships in the game, then someone would have claimed they were just being perverted.

Honestly when you decide to put romance into a game with options like this, you open yourself up to this type of complaint, because you'll never make everyone happy and there are always those who will make a big deal out of it.

I don't think it's an issue, but some people will always try to make it one.

1 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:55:38 PM

Yup, there will always be complainers though I think less people would have complained had they not included the homosexual options.

4 up, 3 down

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:05:31 PM

I don't have a problem with homosexual people either. However, "Tab B" fit's "Slot A", which in turn produces "Baby C"

8 up, 1 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:10:18 PM

I think you're right Jawknee, probably would have been less complaining, but I think that's what David Gaider was trying to point out, that just because there are less that doesn't mean they should be left out.

I'm one of the people though who could care less either way, as long as it's an option and not a requirement, doesn't matter to me.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:56:11 PM

For me personally, had I bought this game I like Ben would have been a little conformable with it but it's not going to keep me up at night. I find it unnecessary but like I said, too each his own. :)

2 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:20:06 PM

*uncomfortable.

1 up, 1 down

cLoudou
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:38:27 PM
Reply

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

6 up, 4 down

matt99
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:39:30 PM
Reply

I think this is just a big over-reaction from a few homophobic gamers.

8 up, 12 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 1:46:15 PM

"homophobic"

Lame.

10 up, 10 down

TheAgingHipster
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:02:30 PM

Why is "homophobic" lame? (Well, aside from the notion that homosexual people should somehow be frightening, of course.)

4 up, 7 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:11:42 PM

Because it a silly pejorative used by people who want too dismiss other peoples opinions to avoid meaningful debate. It's a quick way to shut up the opposition. Just because someone doesn't agree with the homosexual life style or doesn't find it to be moral behavior doesn't make them a homophobe.

It's no different that calling someone a raciest because they don't believe affirmative action is helpful to minorities.

11 up, 4 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:13:24 PM

*immoral behavior. You forgot the 'im' part. And I didn't understand your last sentence at all, could you elaborate?

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 2:14:16 PM

0 up, 4 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:41:30 PM

I didn't forget the "im". My sentance reads "doesn't find it to be moral behavior." Saying I don't find that behavior moral. Adding the "im" would imply I do find it moral.

Affirmative action is a policy that says one has to accept a person in to a school, job or what ever based on the color of their skin. Not based on their merits or character.(It's the complete antithesis to Martin Luther King Jr's "I have a Dream" Speech by the way) Many people believe that is patronizing to minorities because it implies that because they are a minority they are not as capable as the rest of us without special treatment. The policy was made with the best intentions in mind but when you break it down, it's really doing a disservice to those it supposed to help by expecting less of them simply because they aren't white. Minorities are just as capable as whites. No need for special treatment especially in 2011. Those who are opposed to affirmative action are often called racists by its supporters much like those of us who have no problem with gays people as people(some of my coolest friends have been gay), but find the behavior immoral are called homophobes in an effort to stifle debate.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 2:48:30 PM

6 up, 6 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:57:33 PM

Oops, my bad, I read it wrong.

I see what you mean now. You make an excellent point as well.

P.S. Is it even possible to 'hate the game, not the players' in real life? I don't find it to make logical sense.

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 2:59:15 PM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:41:29 PM

Yes. My dad is an alcoholic and I still love him even though I hate alcoholism.

8 up, 1 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:49:33 PM

Err... parents don't count, because one owes waaaay too much to one's parents to ever be able to not love them. Unless they did something truly inhumane, but I digress.

Anyway, it's nice to hear that you love your parents. The way the newer generations treat their parents kinda makes me angry, but again, I digress.

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 3:50:58 PM

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:09:40 PM

I am obligated to honor my mother and father. Not love them. I still love him though he is a drunk.

I also have friends who do drugs and drink too much even though I do not do drugs or drink no more than a beer or two a month. I still love them.

Keep inmind Jesus dined with sinners and Tax collectors. He seemed to think it was possible so so do I. :)

7 up, 4 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:12:24 PM

Get lost Sweddie, Your kind of attitude and nonsense is the kind of crap Ben was talking about in his opening. You are not a serious person to debate with and have nothing to say that I will listen to on this matter because of your blatant self righteousness and smug attitude about what you think is right or wrong proves you are unwilling to listen to other peoples opinions without calling them names. You won't argue against my points because you can't. You don't know me personally or whom I have befriended so you have no room to judge or say my opinions are based on some stupid "fear of gays" or because I genuinely believe the behavior is wrong and the life style is unhealthy. Unless you have something so say to me that's not insulting or dismissive, don't reply to my posts.

5 up, 6 down

MadKatBebop
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:53:04 PM

I'm not sure if Affirmative Action has ever helped anybody. I agree with Jawknee, minorities are just as capable as Caucasians to make it in life but I do wish employers would stop looking at the color of a persons skin, and just look at the individuals ability to do the job. Ive been a victim of racial profiling a lot in my life, because I'm 6.2 and African American people find it strange that I want to work in the Video Game Industry, Ive even had some people try to talk me out of it for some racial reasons, but I believe if I work hard enough sometime in the future, I can even own my own video game studio!

7 up, 0 down

PANICinc
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:53:05 PM

It's both of you! Jawknee & Sweedie

5 up, 3 down

TheAgingHipster
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 9:40:04 PM

@Jawknee, ahh, I see what you mean. I'm personally not a fan of the term "homophobic" either, though I try to accept that people use it without a full understanding of it's connotations. I prefer to discuss rather than label.

0 up, 0 down

Ultimate_Balla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:14:25 PM
Reply

Check out the polygons on that dude. . .
#Nohomo. Lol.

3 up, 3 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:23:29 PM

I LOLd

1 up, 1 down

VampDeLeon
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:25:37 PM
Reply

They were also complaining about there being an option for females and some being too sexual. Can't please everyone.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:22:53 PM

Isabella's rack = AAA

1 up, 1 down

frostface
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:28:58 PM
Reply

Why anybody gives a shit, I'll never know. Everyone has the right to play games and be represented, and most certainly not be excluded because they bat for the other team. Why does it make anyone feel uncomfortable? Over reaction? I tend to go with ignorance, stupidity, insecurity.

8 up, 6 down

Lotusflow3r
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 7:29:32 PM

Bang on.

Not even an issue or news worthy.

2 up, 1 down

Alienange
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:33:07 PM
Reply

"They're for everyone."

Really? What will Bioware do when the pedophiles start claiming they were born that way? That it's true love that shouldn't be frowned upon and that they should have their rights? What happens when the pedophiles say the straights and gays aren't open minded and don't have "modern thinking?"

Will their games start including them? We're going to start recruiting children into our parties just in case the gamer is a pedophile?

10 up, 13 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:42:02 PM

"What will Bioware do when the pedophiles start claiming they were born that way?"

Great point.

6 up, 10 down

VampDeLeon
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:00:27 PM

It's sad to know some people still label pedophilia, bestiality and homosexuality in the same category. A better argument would've been including handicapped players. At least they attempted more realism.

Last edited by VampDeLeon on 3/25/2011 3:01:36 PM

6 up, 1 down

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:02:17 PM

That is a great point. Adults who prey on children need to be .... well, dealt with severely.

8 up, 1 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:06:09 PM

oh come on now, no matter what your opinions are about gays and lesbians, thats not a great point. thats a slippery slope argument. Lets try not to use those

Last edited by aaronisbla on 3/25/2011 3:06:32 PM

9 up, 3 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:13:33 PM

@Vamp: In what way is homosexuality different from the others to be not labeled in the same category? It'd help those who categorize them together to see the difference to be able to 'uncategorize' homosexuality from the rest.

2 up, 1 down

coverton341
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:19:48 PM

For starters, homosexuality involves two like minded consenting adults whereas bestiality involves animals, and paedophilia involves children incapable of offering informed consent.

9 up, 1 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:22:19 PM

@wolf: lets take homosexuality and pedophilia, don't care enough to discuss bestiality.

which one are you more disgusted by?

3 up, 2 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:23:25 PM

seriously, how any one could put those in the same category boggles my mind

Last edited by aaronisbla on 3/25/2011 3:25:03 PM

2 up, 3 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:32:04 PM

@aaron: I'm disgusted by both equally. And I'm not just saying that to make the argument harder to continue, I really mean it.

@coverton: That's an OK-ish argument that's for homosexuality, but it's flawed.

2 up, 6 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:34:42 PM

wow, disgusted with both equally? un friggin real. to each his own i suppose, but i know pastors who wouldn't think twice of telling you pedophilia disturbs them way more

6 up, 1 down

VampDeLeon
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:37:18 PM

Along with that, homosexuality has been taken off mental disorder/illness list quite some time ago. Labeling it as disgusting, sure. Classifying it as wrong, eh it's not contagious so don't worry about it.

4 up, 0 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:37:22 PM

Yeah, maximum disgust from both.

@Vamp: Why was it removed? Was there a reason that led them to believe it wasn't the mental disorder/illness they initially thought it was?

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 3:39:01 PM

1 up, 6 down

VampDeLeon
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:37:28 PM

Along with that, homosexuality has been taken off mental disorder/illness list quite some time ago. Labeling it as disgusting, sure. Classifying it as wrong, eh it's not contagious so don't worry about it.

1 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:39:53 PM

ok then, glad we all don't think the same way then.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:00:55 PM

Anybody could have been born attracted to anybody else. That's just how it is.

3 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:01:59 PM

It's not as slippery of a slope as you think aaron. Ever heard of NAMBLA?

2 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:02:23 PM

I have, the North American Marlon Brando Lookalike Association.

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:04:59 PM

Mell beat you too it. :)

0 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 12:59:31 AM

jawk, i swear if i wasnt at work i would have guessed that first lol

0 up, 0 down

coverton341
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 2:44:59 PM
Reply

It's a game. They aren't pushing some "gay agenda" or anything. If you don't want to engage in a "homosexual" relationship (I use the term loosely because again it's a game...it isn't making you run out and blow dudes) then don't engage in them.

Hell, don't play the game if you feel super strong about it and send a message to the developer by not giving them your money.

I for one will continue playing and having a good time with it.

6 up, 4 down

maxpontiac
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:02:49 PM

That's a great idea, and exactly what I did.

6 up, 2 down

bigrailer19
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:54:41 PM

I think the problem people are having isn't the fact that you can engage in homosexual encounters in the game, but the more annoying fact that some of the male characters continue to make passes at your male character or others. It's a distraction from the game and again an annoyance. If it were left up to just the choice of the gamer rather than the ai becoming a focal point and taking away from the game, we may never have had this discussion. I think that's the bigger problem. It then becomes an argument about why homosexuality is even in the game at that point. Or maybe I'm wrong...

But your right, if you don't want to see it or deal with it dont play it!

3 up, 0 down

FxTales
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:47:06 PM

@ Jawknee
The North American Marlon Brando Look-alikes?

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:02:52 PM

HA! Great episode.

1 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:06:20 PM
Reply

surprised to hear there are male characters making passes at you in the game. yuck. sorry, that's how i feel. romances are usually so poorly portrayed in games anyway. knd of enjoyed the romance in ff10, though.

i don't know. i hate to sound like i am person that discriminates against anyone. maybe, a game could be like toal recall, and ask you what you prefer, then customize the game accordingly.

2 up, 2 down

jdt1981
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:08:27 PM
Reply

The first time these characters flirt with you you can tell them something like "that ship wont sail" then they wont flirt with you for the rest of the game so to me this isn't a big deal at all...

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:11:58 PM
Reply

Haha, my Hawke is a woman and I felt uncomfortable when the men hit on her. I got my lesbian game on with Isabella and Merril instead.

6 up, 2 down

coverton341
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:16:13 PM

My Hawke is female as well. She is asexual and focused on the task at hand.

6 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:23:49 PM

i normally gravitate towards female characters anyways

4 up, 1 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:14:24 PM
Reply

i thought we as gamers were a bit more immune to crap like this. Its a game. I don't hear a huge outcry from core gamers if something is too violent. Sure we have some that prefer less blood and gore and what not, but not to the point that there is a huge outcry about it from within the gaming community.

"oh noes i got hit on by a dude in my game!" well do what you would in real life and reject it.

7 up, 1 down

coverton341
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:17:24 PM

Start touching on a subject like sexual orientation and everyone gets all up in arms.

I thought that the majority of the contributors of this site were a bit above such but I was mistaken.

4 up, 4 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:23:24 PM

yeah i noticed that as well. kinda sad really. Its not a practice i actually agree with either but its nowhere near a big enough deal to get all up in arms about it.

4 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:24:26 PM

I'm with you Aaron, this is SUCH a small deal. If a guy hit on me in real life I wouldn't be all upset I'd just kindly tell him I don't swing that way.

2 up, 2 down

jdt1981
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:48:00 PM

I agree, of all the problems DAII had this issue was one of the least IMO. I'd rather complain about the extremely repetitive environments, the slightly dull party members, and the fact that most of the game didn't have an overarching story it just seemed like a massive collection of side quests that got boring after awhile.

1 up, 1 down

coverton341
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:18:26 PM

Yeah, I definitely have more of a problem with the fact that I have gone to "different" caves only to realise that the caves where the exact same map with different paths of it blocked off. Dudes hitting on dudes happens in real life and I just mind my own business or express the fact that I am happy with my girlfriend if it happens to me so I think I can handle a little bit of pretend happenings.

0 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:43:43 PM
Reply

Wasn't there complaints about blatant homosexuality in Bioware's Mass Effect as well, and suddenly it's in Bioware's Dragon Age..wait a second..is anyone really suprised? Who the hell cares? They left the game open for a multiple different angles of interaction, how the player decides on the outcome is up to them. Grow up, crawl out from under your rock and get on with your life.

Last edited by CH1N00K on 3/25/2011 3:45:03 PM

11 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 3:57:32 PM
Reply

Why are people complaining?
They give you the option to say no.

5 up, 0 down

DarthNemesis
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:09:04 PM
Reply

As a heterosexual male gamer I don't see the problem with it.Why be offended by a video game? Isn't this hypocritical when the same people talk about how games are fantasy when it comes to outsiders who bash games for violence? So now when it's something that they can not understand or relate to it's an issue.It's not like you have to start a romantic relationship with a male anyway so it's nothing that you can not avoid.I ended up making it with the cute female elf by the way.

6 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:59:19 PM

"it is NOT a choice"

Acting on it is a choice.

8 up, 12 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:01:18 PM

@guy with awkward name...

Too far...too soon...

Oh and BTW I actually got around to reading your full lousy comment. I'm a 17 year old male Agnostic with a gay 20 year old brother now...with that said. i have no problems with gays, my "religious" beliefs or my personal moral do not go against you. But what I do have a problem with is this...gays believing they have special privileges just because they can design a freaking living room. Like I said I have no negative feelings towards gays, but please you don't have to yell loud and proud that you are gay, we figured it out by now. Just like when you see a man on the street and you know he's straight, a little dis-heartening for you sure...but you move on with your day. So please do that now and get over your self. :)

Last edited by JMO_INDY on 3/25/2011 5:14:19 PM

8 up, 8 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:14:52 PM

I'm not going to debate with someone such as yourself who only sees life through a small warped little prism such as yours. You didn't reply to have a substantive, civil debate, you let your emotions speak for you and once again proved you have nothing substantive to say except insult those whom you disagree with. You don't know me or who my friends are and I'm sick and tired of you pretending you do. Once again, do not reply to my posts in the future.

6 up, 10 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:30:43 PM

HA! Aliange was the one who made the comment, CrimsonWolf went ever further with it and I all did was agree with Aliange's point and you chose to go after me and start calling me a homophobe? You're joke. Get lost.

5 up, 6 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:37:22 PM

youre doing it right now man, if you really cared all about this game's views, which i realy don't know why the hell you would. It's a damn game. I have no problems with gays, I have to deal with my brother every year at Christmas and his BF who is actually a pretty cool dude, he's a tech nerd which is nice to have someone to talk about things like that with. My point is...you getting up and arms about this is pointless you know you are a minority to everyone here, and it's game dude, live your life how you want to, regardless of what you say we have our views and you have yours. That is that, now can we all please stop arguing? Thank you :)

Last edited by JMO_INDY on 3/25/2011 5:38:13 PM

3 up, 5 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:55:53 PM

My point is someone always complains about something that makes them even the slightest bit uncomfortable and blow it out of proportion, I say we just drop all of this and move on, truce?

5 up, 0 down

MadKatBebop
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:59:10 PM

I have a lesbian friend (who is really, really hot) she told me, for her being lesbian was all her CHOICE. She said she doesn't like it when people try to make it sound like "gays" can't make choices.

5 up, 1 down

MadKatBebop
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:13:50 PM

@Sweedie

I'm sorry, but can you explain what your point is some more? I just want to fully understand what you mean. I went to bed really late last night so I'm a little off today.

Last edited by MadKatBebop on 3/25/2011 6:15:19 PM

0 up, 0 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:16:22 PM

But what I'm saying is sometimes quiet represents dignity. If you just let it pass it wont start confrontation between people. I know it sounds like I'm saying just shut up and accept it, but sometimes you have to do that whether you're gay or straight. There will be people in life who are just ignorant and plain ol' assholes, and I wouldn't say jawknee is neither. He is a really good friend of mine. The man is in the utmost sense brilliant, he has a lot of knowledge, and ignorant is not the correct term, maybe heavily opinionated or outspoken perhaps but not ignorant by any means, he educates himself about a diverse group of things. So in the end lets just all shut the %$#@ up and move on, because no one likes the taste of feet in their mouth :D

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:40:41 PM

"And why should I shut up about something that affects my life every single day?"

How does a bunch of anonymous people on a video game website affect your day to day life? If you think your life style is healthy and your are proud of who you are, then more power to you! You don't need affirmation from a bunch of random people on the internet if you truly believe you are living a happy and healthy life.

"You don't know what it's like being gay"

Of course we don't but I can speak from a position of having gay friends and relatives and not one of them agree with you that it's some kind of human rights struggle here in America. Gays were never treated as bad as blacks or woman and it's quite patronizing to them to insist so. You have never been denied the right to vote or forced into slavery simply because you're gay. and thank God! You want to fight for gay rights, look to those countries that have state sanctioned hanging and stoning's of gay people. This kind of garbage still happens in this world and its NOT in the US. Gays are largely accepted and not as frowned upon in 2011 America. You seem to think we need to agree with your life style in order for you to feel better about yourself. Not gonna happen. Live your life, love who want and be happy.

Maybe Alianges analogy wasn't the best but I really do get tired of hearing about how there is something wrong with people like me who find your life style objectionable by people like you. You live your life, I'll live mine.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 6:54:52 PM

4 up, 4 down

MadKatBebop
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:14:24 PM

Sorry I got lost there for a minute, thanks for that. And yes, I'm straight.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:37:03 PM

We must not be living in the same America then because there is nothing BUT gay friendly media bombarding us day in and day out. You are not oppressed and you don't help your cause by pretending to be some civil rights hero.

"I never attacked anyone in my comment"

You attacked me.

And yes I am outspoken but I never started calling people names or picking on anyone where YOU on the other hand started out this whole conversation by calling those of us who disagree with you homophobes and picking on me specifically. It's fine if you want to defend your position but if you want people to take you seriously, do it in civil manner. You want people to listen to you, you want to change hearts and minds? Calling people homophobes isn't going to get people to listen.

As for marriage, there is a thing called civil unions that grant all the same legal rights to gays a marriage does to straights. You want the same legal rights as American citizens, become a citizen the right way then get joined into a civil union or check to see if a civil union will get you citizenship.

And I'm not sure what comment you're referring to. I always assumed you where an American citizen. You being here on a visa is news to me.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 7:53:55 PM

7 up, 2 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:52:55 PM

I'm done with you Sweed, I tried to make a truce I agreed to disagree but you kept pressing on which proved my point further. Just let it go. and for the record you DID attack Jawknee personally. On a side note: Everyone listen to Stars - Wasted Daylight :D

2 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:55:00 PM

This is ridiculous.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 8:56:34 PM

2 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 9:43:12 PM

I agree. Ridiculous.

2 up, 0 down

hadouken
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:20:49 PM
Reply

To think I was going to put this game on the back burner lol. I had no clue that the game had homo and hetero relationships in it.

I mean as hetero gamer I assumed the relationships would be focused on woman. Times are changing.

1 up, 0 down

DarthNemesis
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:47:29 PM

Well I completed the game and you actually have control over what sex embraces you by the dialogue choices.It's set up to move in a natural way in my opinion.So if a gamer is getting hit on by the male characters then he is the one initiating such actions.The game has lots of choices that impact what happens.So i would not advise missing out if you were really interested.All the same,you can not have a intimate relationship with any character as you can deliberately become rivals with each character.

0 up, 0 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:26:23 PM
Reply

This all could have been avoided if they wrote two separate scripts, that for women and that for men, depending on your character choice. Or maybe even a sexual orientation question during character customization. If they truly felt that these people have equal rights they should have spent equal time on both options.

3 up, 2 down

kraygen
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:27:01 PM
Reply

Ben starts his article with

"I shudder to think what might happen in the Comments section if a homosexual/heterosexual war should erupt. But that won't happen, right?"

And to lighten the mood a little I'm going to respond to this with . . . . . .

EPIC FAIL!

lol ;)

8 up, 1 down

bigrailer19
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:06:36 PM

It was bound to happen... But I will say for the most part it has been a pretty mature discussion through out. Sure opinions have been stated but I've read most the comments and I have to say I'm surprised it didn't get out of hand.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:16:16 PM

It was fine and things were nice and civil until Sweddie showed up and start flaming.

7 up, 11 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:24:00 PM

Ha puns are great ;)

2 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:31:20 PM

Be gone troll.

9 up, 10 down

BikerSaint
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 11:36:33 PM

As Rodney King would say....

"Can't we all just get along"???

1 up, 0 down

KNG201
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:56:14 PM
Reply

why is this wrong...people really care about such a thing. homosexuality has been around a long time. heck CEASER had boy toys...in 300 it was mentioned "philosophers & boy lovers". IMO it fits the era & I have the choice not to accept the homosexual advances.

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:04:29 PM

Using that quote from 300 isn't the best example to make your case that it isn't wrong. The context of that quote was meant as a jab at those "philosophers and boy lovers" for not being man enough to fight back instead of submitting to their oppressors.

4 up, 5 down

FM23
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 4:56:55 PM
Reply

Anyone who gets mad about this is clearly ignorant, stupid, and not seeing the clear picture. Their are a different types of preferences out there thus Bioware tried to make everyone happy. The two main male characters don't really initiate sexual tension except Anders. He made me uncomfortable (just a little) and after that, I never choose a flirting response, thus I never had a gay experience with anybody nor did I have an uncomfortable time. You can choose to be gay in the game if you want, I personally had sex with all the female characters I could because...well Bioware gave me the choice just like they gave gamers the chance to explore others aspects of the games sexual preferences if I choose too. Pretty dumb for this to be a complaint, the game gives you freedom...why be mad. This is so dumb.

7 up, 5 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:00:35 PM

"Anyone who gets mad about this is clearly ignorant, stupid, "

This is the kind of talk that isn't needed in a substantive debate. You want people to take you seriously don't start off by calling the opposition stupid because they don't agree with you.

9 up, 6 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:01:44 PM

Boom son! that just happened!

3 up, 5 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:44:45 PM

/warning: Incoming rant/

Whether it's "right" or "wrong" jawknee, is irrelevant. It's a moral issue based in religion. And as far as I'm concerned, while you don't have to be forced to believe it's ok, you can't, morally, I believe, tell people what they're doing is wrong.

I don't agree with pro-same sex groups forcing people to accept their way of life as morally right, but I also don't agree with anti-same sex groups trying to deny people happiness. There is sexual immorality and adultery from both hetero- and homo-sexuals. If a couple is responsible about their relationship, is safe, and loyal, what I think for myself is completely irrelevant. Who am I to deny someone their happiness?

Additionally, -and I don't think this is a problem with you Jawk as far as I can tell, so don't think I'm pointing fingers here- how in the world can someone expect to be respected for what they believe if they can't listen and respect someone else in return?

As an example, I absolutely cringe when activists raise banners and flags disseminating same sex couples calling them "fag" or telling them God hates them. It's IMMORAL to show such hatred towards someone. Besides, last I checked, Christianity is about admitting you're broken yourself and imperfect and in need of salvation... it's about recognizing that and loving the people around you. You SHOULD have your own stance on morality on the issue, fine, but hating people for it is NOT the way a Christian should go about promoting their faith.

But vice-versa, as you know, Canada allows same sex marriage. And there's a pastor in British Columbia who refused to marry a same sex couple. He was extremely polite about it, and in no way did he show any hatred... but he is in a role of leadership and has his own moral stance on same sex marriage. That couple tried to sue him and press hate charges. And THAT behavior should not be allowed either... especially when there are countless others who would marry them. It certainly doesn't promote mutual respect, what they did.

Now I know, you guys will point fingers at me and criticize me for promoting true tolerance. But when there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you will EVER get everyone to agree on the issue, it's the only way people can live in our -FREE- societies in peace without fear of dissent and segregation.

Anyways, sorry for the rant... I just can't understand why people feel hatred over such an issue. I don't really care what "side" anyone is on... I just hate when people get hurt or can't live in society because of what people will say or do to them.

/rant/

7 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:55:31 PM

... also... the last thing I want to add, is that I have a pet-peeve about how loosely people use the term "homophobia" based on earlier things I read.

Homophobia is a term for people who, for reasons that are not real, feel threatened by homosexuality or immediately become hostile towards it after never being provoked. It is not a term for anyone who simply does not agree with it from a moral standpoint.

Both sides are OFTEN at fault in the public forum. Unfortunately, people rarely see the healthy side of tolerance due to the lack of publicity it receives. You only hear about hatred in the news. Never kind acts or healthy relationships.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/25/2011 7:55:50 PM

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:07:16 PM

Who said anything about hating anyone? No one here called anyone a "fag" or praised those nutjobs who hold those ridiculous signs. I never said such a thing nor did anyone else. I know you're not meaning to single me out but how else should I see it? I have my opinions other have theirs. This Whole thing didn't get blown out of proportion until Sweddie showed up and started calling me a homophobe. He flies off the handle anytime I say something he doesn't like. This isn't the first time hes picked a fight with me and started making insinuations about who I am or what I believe. I know what I think is moral or immoral but doesn't doesn't mean I am spreading hate or hating anyone. This is what is so annoying about the gay agenda. We can;t possibly disagree with them without being labeld as haters. Those who wish to preach the Gospel have already gotten in legal trouble for "hate speech" in places like Cananda and Sweden. How is that right? Should those of us who object to certain life styles have to fear being labeled as haters or worse be held criminally liable for our opinions?

And I can't speak for how homophobe is used in Canada but here in the states it's far to often used a means to shut those of us up who don't agree with that life style. Sweddie's loose use of it kind of proves my point.

No one said anyone should be denied anything. People live free in this society and gays are not treated as second class citizens. They just aren't and it does a great disservice to those who were actually treated that way to insist otherwise.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 8:11:58 PM

3 up, 3 down

Clamedeus
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:07:55 PM

@Underdog15 I agree on the news part, they don't show what good people do for others, they mostly show the negative sides of what people do, Murder/Rape etc.

@everyone else: I'm not joining in this debate after this comment, we all should respect each other no matter what they believe in and have no bias towards who they are and should NOT discriminate because of it. We all should act as adults and stop this fight between each other, you know who you are and should be proud of who you are and not what others think of you.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:26:45 PM

"But vice-versa, as you know, Canada allows same sex marriage. And there's a pastor in British Columbia who refused to marry a same sex couple. He was extremely polite about it, and in no way did he show any hatred... but he is in a role of leadership and has his own moral stance on same sex marriage. That couple tried to sue him and press hate charges. And THAT behavior should not be allowed either... especially when there are countless others who would marry them. It certainly doesn't promote mutual respect, what they did."

Sorry Underdog I missed this and I agree with you. This guy shouldn't have gotten in trouble AND people shouldn't spread hate about gays but that's not what I or anyone else was doing here in this discussion.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 8:27:31 PM

1 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:55:38 PM

Kinda hard to mistake a comment from you Jawknee like "it is NOT a choice"

Acting on it is a choice.

I'm sorry but it really gets my goat when some people talk about issues like this saying but I'm not saying anything offensive nope not me when they come out with shit like that. That's the crap christian boot camps say ALL the while using extreme labido destroying drugs to try and "reform" lapsed homosexual christians.

2 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 11:41:51 PM

@Smokey
I must have missed that part about Christianity when I was paging through that there Bible. You sure those actions are associated with Christianity just because the people doing it claim to be Christians?

Those are extremists of a sort, and it's unfair to me to be labeled with that kind of a group.

2 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:17:17 PM
Reply

Just found this in a webcomic, it seemed kind of fitting after this article.

Take a look (if the moderators approve this..lol):

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110314

1 up, 0 down

Ludicrous_Liam
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:26:42 PM
Reply

For the life of me, I'll never know why being gay is such a sensitive issue. Hello, more important things happening in the world at this moment in time.

4 up, 0 down

PANICinc
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:40:56 PM
Reply

I love DA2! I find the relationships to be rather entertaining! I currently have "romances" going on or close to it with Multiple party members, both male and female, and might I add that there is also cross species romance here! It adds some hilarious banter between characters, and I noticed Merrill wearing some badass armor after she moved in. So possible perks?

And if anyone is offended by the "homosexual" opportunities, well, don't choose the Hearted dialogue option! You have the choice to pursue a romance or not!

I end with a historical remark.
Caligula

2 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:54:06 PM
Reply

omg. this thread turned ugly real fast. you know what, i don't know if being gay is a choice or not. i'm not going to pretend to know. i know they should not be discriminated against, or looked down upon. there is some of that in this thread mainly by one person that i've seen go after muslims also.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 3/25/2011 5:56:30 PM

2 up, 0 down

FxTales
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 5:59:01 PM
Reply

All I know is is that I'm not going to assume I know what being gay is like, I don't, and because of that will not make assumptions. I like this site, I usually find the people here have a lot of interesting things to say but in saying that I've witnessed some pretty ugly things just now.

8 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:02:43 PM

agreed

7 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:50:31 PM

Here here... Just reading what this guy put up alone made me disappointed to be a gamer to begin with but then I have to come here and see this debate rage and conducted in this way.

1 up, 0 down

Milonakis
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:05:57 PM
Reply

Anyone else get that scene where you could make a sexual advance on the dragon?

1 up, 1 down

Milonakis
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:06:01 PM
Reply

Anyone else get that scene where you could make a sexual advance on the dragon?

0 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:09:17 PM

No, or at least not yet, but I did just whoop his monkey ass down at the coast.

1 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:08:42 PM
Reply

Morality is different everywhere, a single true morality often presupposes the existence of a God with rules to follow. Even if that is accepted, none of His singular irreplacably unique children should be reduced to a single syllable and dismissed because of the way He made them.

People should learn from Dragon Age, nobody judges you in that game for your orientation. That's all.

12 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:40:13 PM
Reply

off topic, but where is a headline for re racoon city?

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 6:43:50 PM

maybe tomorrow

0 up, 0 down

Oxvial
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:22:48 PM
Reply

I don't have problems with the homosexuality, BUT I watched a friend playing DAII and there was a bunch of choices in almost all reply's to flirt with other males...I couldn't stop laughing .

My friend tried to defend the game but he ended laughing too xD.

3 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:23:37 PM
Reply

This should be old news in gaming. You could be straight or homosexual in Fable too.

Also, it's not like either way your character swings in a game has any REAL weight on the majority of the game.

As for Max's earlier question about sex in games, I agree that it should never be the focal point, but if you're role playing, I can easily see one's orientation as playing a key role in their character. No one got too mad about the sex in God of War, really. I remember reading an interview with Jaffe in OPM saying he felt it was necessary to develop Kratos' character... and people seemed ok with that explanation! (It is Jaffe that did GOW, right? For some reason I feel like it was.)

Anyways, a stance on morality in such an issue in games is stupid. It puts people into the position of saying, "Same sex is wrong, but stabbing my rival through the jugular is A-okay."

I dunno... To me, people with moral reservations SHOULD run into many more problems with the games "morality" before they even get to the potential homosexual bits. I'm not trying to say DA is "immoral"; I'm asking why something sexual, something humans do within healthy relationships believe it or not, is a bigger issue for people than magic from occult, violence, gore, blood, and foul language! lol... I dunno, I just find these "moral" type contradictory.

And the dev is right... whether your moral stance is right or wrong, it's not exactly an immersive RPG if you make it so there's no way you could ever relate to yourself, the character. If you aren't gay, then politely decline the homosexual offer. If so, then voila! Realism for your character.

Lastly, the "it makes me uncomfortable" complaint is *&#$ing juvenile. I've been uncomfortable in real life from men AND women hitting on me. You deal with it... kind of like a grown-up... Game's rated M anyways, and therefore for grown-ups... So why's this so hard for people?

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/25/2011 7:28:43 PM

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:39:54 PM

It's hard for people who aren't completely comfortable with who they are yet.

7 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:12:32 PM

Yeah. I'm glad I showed up late for this discussion. Takes too much energy! For the most part, I sided with many things Sweedie said, but even he had some things that irked me.

I sit on the inclusivity council at work (... ok ok... it's a diversity committee with a stupid name...), and that already takes enough out of me. lol... At my location, I'm the go-to guy counselor for anything that falls under "inclusivity"... guys and gals come out of the closet to me all the time!

Why me? Someone many of them have only known for a couple weeks, IF that?

Because they're scared of their family... friends... scared of what they'll think... scared they won't be accepted... sometimes scared their father will beat them... just... awful. Coming out is not some flamboyant thing many think it is... it's frightening and completely life changing. Yet at the same time, freeing. If you ask me, I'm glad I'm not gay... the ONLY reason being... I don't know if I could deal with that kind of fear of hatred and judging.

I used to be very anti-same sex marriage due to my faith combined with my complete inexperience dealing with such inner conflicts. It's easy to not have an educated point of view when you never have to deal with something. But now, I don't give two licks about whether I'm ok with it or not... because it's not something I ever have to deal with personally. My heart goes out to these teens and young adults... as if fighting to figure out who they are like every other teen isn't hard enough... These folks HURT... BAD. What's ignorant, is not people's moral stance... it's the lack of compassion they have for these individuals.

What I can tell you is this in the end: I have a kid on the way... 10-20 years from now (broad time frame, I know... but these youth are never the same age when they talk to me)... I NEVER want my child to scared of whether or not I'll accept them as my child over such an issue. The fear these youth have towards their parents? I would be -HEARTBROKEN- if my child had a similar fear of me... to me... that's failure as a parent.

Lastly, I don't feel like my faith has changed either. I still believe what I believe about everything else outside of homosexuality. But what I now know is this: This world is effed up. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but guess what? That is NOT for me to decide. So I don't care. What I DO know is this... when Christ was on earth... he treated everyone like a human being with love and compassion... no matter what... and he ESPECIALLY showed compassion towards those who most of society kicked to the curb. Sometimes I get really bitter towards my fellow Christians... if Jesus himself showed love towards everyone, who am I to judge otherwise? And lastly... Christians SHOULD know this, and if they don't... well... they'd best learn...

But the do's and don't's... the rules... are mentioned throughout the Bible at scattered instances and are never the focal point beyond relationship-care. But the word 'love', is mentioned in the New Testament alone nearly 300 times... What do YOU think we should be focusing on? It definitely isn't judging people.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/25/2011 8:15:52 PM

10 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:32:49 PM

That was well said. Information and experience always trumps blind opinion.

5 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 11:58:58 PM

Underdog15,

I've got to say it....

.....you just wrote the 2 best posts in this whole thread.

1 up, 0 down

MadPowerBomber
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 7:55:54 PM
Reply

...wow...

0 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:37:05 PM
Reply

I had no idea misogyny and homophobic tendencies were alive and well even in gaming culture like this... I read the guys entire post. It's utterly terrible... "…Its ridiculous that I even have to use a term like Straight Male Gamer, when in the past I would only have to say fans" ARGH This made me so angry

I first read this here. http://www.themarysue.com/dragon-age-writer-patiently-explains-why-there-are-not-too-few-romance-options-for-straight-male-gamers/

A site for Women gamers, your missing the point by just focusing on this IDIOTS focus on homosexuality Ben. It was women just as much he was whinging about being catered to instead of him, the "straight male". Appalling

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 8:58:25 PM
Reply

'sigh'

Damnit, I knew I shouldn't have posted this. I want NO more posts on this subject, from anyone. Please.

7 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 9:01:01 PM

I'm really sorry Ben, I really thought we could have a substantive, civil discussion about this otherwise I wouldn't even have posted in the first place. I wish we could discuss these topics without calling each other names or accusing one another of hate. :(

5 up, 5 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 9:41:52 PM

Eh, I'm not blaming anyone. It's a combustible topic; it was bound to happen.

2 up, 0 down

JMO_INDY
Friday, March 25, 2011 @ 9:00:09 PM
Reply

we are all human, we all have opinions, we all decide daily what we will say what we will do. Us as gamers are usually the most UN-sensitive bunch. In that we hold high regard for self opinion, we hold a low regard for others, be it multiplayer games or real life. we usually laugh at others who argue about the content in our video games and how they are being too sensitive, but look what we have all said here. It makes you think and realize why others do it, we can no longer look at them and say I'm glad we don't do that, we can no longer see them and judge with an innocent conscience. We should let others be who they are, it kind of reminds me when X-Box Live blocked others from portraying their sexual orientation in their profiles. It was a sad day to see that. In all of this I've learned that no one is a saint, and we all carry our demons not on our shoulders, but on our back in hiding waiting for the ideal time to strike and show its true colors. That needs to stop. Lets be who we are.

2 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 12:18:46 AM
Reply

@jawknee

you should be sorry for judging others, and ruining the thread. acting on that was a choice.

6 up, 4 down

Affliction18
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 12:35:56 AM

I agree jawk posted some ignorant things, while trying to say he didn't say shit and after everyone of his posts JMO posts like his little bitch. Good job underdog great posts. Jawk you should try being more optimistic it might do you some good. Instead of sounding like a pessimistic asshole. :)

9 up, 4 down

Underdog15
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 1:17:10 AM

Thanks, but I didn't exactly feel Jawk was out of line, really.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/26/2011 1:17:41 AM

3 up, 0 down

tes37
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 1:26:35 AM

I agree Underdog, not about the 'thanks' part, but about Jawknee.

1 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 6:51:03 AM

plus the guy posted 28 times on this thread. that's not a debate, it's a choice. just from the tone of it, you can tell there is some serious judging going on there. he said being gay is not a choice, but acting on it is? so i guess a person is just supposed to live a lie or something. this is not the first time i've seen a thread digress with jawk at the center of it. i've seen him go after muslim in other threads. he will say he doesn't, but i know he has a low opinion of them, and gays.

3 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 10:01:28 AM

I disagree. Being gay isn't a choice, yes, but Jawk is right that acting on it, as in engaging in a homosexual relationship, is a choice. People choose not to get into any relationship and many people decide to be celibate whether straight or gay.

Also, I know 3 people personally who are gay but have decided not to engage in a relationship. All 3 have different stories. Perhaps Jawk wasn't as tactful as you'd like, but he IS right. And it's why I think people are attacking him unjustly. You don't have to agree with him, but he wasn't being that out of line as you'd like to think. Here are the 3 stories. And whether you think what they did is right is irrelevant. It's their freedom to choose to do whatever they want. Or would you dispute that?

Person 1: A guy who grew up with his family hating homosexuals. He first knew he was gay when he realized he loved his best friend much more than just a friend. But his family did not accept him. He tried very much NOT to be gay, but of course, it never worked. Eventually he accepted himself for who he was. Later in life, he became religious. He was still as gay as ever (really comical how he tells the story. He's always like, "So, you'd think I'd start turning straight, right? Nope! I'd wake up in the morning as gay as ever!"), but he made a choice to stop being in relationships. Eventually at a mini-conference for homosexuals who have decided to abstain (I know... those things exist?!?!?!)he met a woman, a lesbian, and later married her. (long story short) Here's the interesting part though... (and I admit... it's confusing and I don't really get his line of thinking... but hey, it was his choice, right?) He says his sexual life with his wife is not the kind of sex you might envision a husband and wife would have. He never goes into detail, and usually just leaves it at that. He also says it's VERY unlikely they'd ever get pregnant. lol

But yeah, I don't 100% get his line of thinking, but it's a point that supports Jawk, nontheless. It's not all cut-and-dry.

The second guy, I don't personally believe was gay at birth, or orientated. The reason is, he had HUGE father issues... like... stupid bad father issues. Sad enough I won't explain. Anyways, he was gay until therapy helped him deal with those issues. He decided to stop being in relationships, period, until he dealt with his problems. Again, a choice, as Jawk said. Later, long story short, he married his best friend, a woman, and now has 3 kids. He gets incredibly offended when people tell him swapping teams is a mistake and that he's fooling himself, saying, "I love my wife, and my 3 beautiful kids are NOT mistakes." Additional note, completely unrelated, but I'm a straight guy, but even I know, that this guy I'm talking about here is a freakin' stud... Chiseled like a greek god with dreamy hair! lol, if ever I had a man-crush... lol j/k

The third guy was gay all his life and knew it. But he believed same-sex relationship aren't right due to his faith. Again... his CHOICE. He ended up marrying a woman, but much later in life, they got divorced. Who was he kidding? It just didn't work. He wasn't attracted to her. He is now a single guy who volunteers on much of his free time. He still believes what he believes, and is the type who has decided to remain celibate. But don't tell him he's stupid... because he's very happy, has a ton of friends, has a bunch of family from when he was with a woman, (He's elderly and retired now in his early 70's) and says he's very proud of all he's done.

Anyways, whether you agree with these 3 people or not is irrelevant. Jawk is right. People have choices to act on it or not. And to say they made "wrong" choices? Well, you'd be just as judgmental as those who are against homosexuals. And we wouldn't want to use something like discrimination to discriminate, now would we?

Point is, no matter what camp you're supporting, you need to be more accepting of people. BOTH sides are INCREDIBLY at fault for not accepting people for who they are. Anti-same sex groups sometimes spread hate and discrimination, while pro-same sex groups scream "HOMOPHOBE" the second someone doesn't agree with it. Additionally, I find same-sex lobbyists often use being discriminated against to discriminate against religious groups, who really aren't doing anything unjust to anyone. And that's wrong too.

If you ask me, everyone needs to take a giant chill-pill and move on.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/26/2011 10:02:39 AM

2 up, 1 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 11:33:43 AM

whatever, so being gay isn't a choice, but acting on it is, everything can be a choice, can't it? i would rather someone be who they are without having feeling a need to surpress their immoral behavior becuase society looks down on it. i really don't know if being gay is a choice or not. i like girls, and can't really see how someone can be attracted to a man. but what if i was born different, and it was hard wired into me? scary stuff. i would rather be any minority than that becuase the way society frowns so heavily on that. sometimes, even you're own parents. remember the rutger's student? all these people fear being judged.

i dont know. your post seem pretty thoughtful unlike jawk, so i've put some thought into your examples. the one of the man who knew he was gay seems kind of tragic to me if only becuase of the divorce, and that guy being alone for the rest of his life. as long as he's happy. i just wonder how diffreent things would have been had he felt he could be honest with himself and what he is without being judged. if jawk didn't post 28 times, and his posts were as thoughtful as yours i'd be okay. not the first time jawk spouted his political views here. go look at moh taliban thread. ugly stuff, that really has no place on a gaming cite.

1 up, 5 down

Underdog15
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 2:48:10 PM

Well, with that one guy, I don't think he regrets much. Afterall, he's got 2 daughters and 7 grandkids, 2 of which are married, and one with a kid on the way. I don't think he's alone at all. I bet he wouldn't have any regrets about his children. Maybe he does regret not being gay all his life, but with a beautiful family, I doubt he would ever say it even if he thought it.

His grandson was actually on my volleyball team in university, and we were pretty good friends!

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/26/2011 2:49:18 PM

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 9:49:58 PM

Affliction18.
What's with all the name-calling?

Surely you can get your same points/opinions across without all the added BS.

That might fly on Xbox live, but it sure doesn't fly well here.

2 up, 0 down

sirbob6
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 12:57:06 AM
Reply

As a heterosexual male all I have to say is who cares? Seriously, it is an option.

4 up, 0 down

tes37
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 1:22:26 AM
Reply

Homosexuality is not my cup of tea, although it's right up some people's alley, I'll have to pass.

0 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 2:20:09 AM
Reply

you know where i think he crossed the line is when he said acting on it was a choice, and get out of here troll stuff. then, the affirmittive action crap on the top of that. blacks are just as capable as whites...blah. blah. yet, we know they still get discriminated against. maybe affirmitive action helps balance things out. nobody here is calling anyone a fag is a backhanded jab, as well. there just was a meaness to his posts i did not like that i think started this whole mess.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 3/26/2011 2:23:29 AM

4 up, 3 down

___________
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 8:19:18 AM
Reply

who cares!?
im sorry, but theres something seriously wrong with ya if romances in a freaking video game upset you that much!
they can have dogs having romances with donkeys for all i care!
maybe a option to remove it would be nice, but then if you have a switch to remove this, then someone else will complain about something else and you will need a switch for that too!
i just cant understand how it could bother you that much!

3 up, 0 down

Looking Glass
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 9:33:39 AM
Reply

I don't see what the big deal is. Nobody's forcing anyone into a same-sex relationship. Players are just being given that choice. And there are just as many, if not more, heterosexual options in the game.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 3/26/2011 9:34:00 AM

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 10:08:14 AM
Reply

Could've sworn I said stop.

5 up, 1 down

The Doom
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 12:49:31 PM

They won't. Just delete it.

Last edited by The Doom on 3/26/2011 12:50:14 PM

0 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Saturday, March 26, 2011 @ 1:45:52 PM

I'm sorry Ben but I have to reply, Excelsior is telling lies about me. I never said anything about muslims in the Medal of Honor threads. Hes simply making stuff up and I don't appreciate it.

Any one can go read it for themselves. My comments were reserved for the Taliban and Al Qaeda. NOT muslims in general.

K, I'm done for real.

5 up, 3 down

maxpontiac
Monday, March 28, 2011 @ 11:03:31 AM
Reply

Wow. I missed a party.

0 up, 0 down

PSTan
Tuesday, March 29, 2011 @ 2:13:27 AM
Reply

Same. This was epic debate, people. Glad to see that people still have convictions these days, no matter what side they're on. It just makes the world we live in a much more interesting (albeit inefficient and argumentative) place. I was afraid that everyone was just gonna concede to others just to please them. For me, I have my own convictions (not going to post, for the sake of everyone else). In the end, everyone wins some, loses some. This is a constant in our pluralistic society. If you can't live with it, then you might as well move to North Korea, where everyone's "equal", and there aren't any video game controversies to argue about.

How's that for closure?

0 up, 0 down

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BioWare: The Romances In DAII Are "For Everyone"

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