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DICE "Desperate" To Move Into The Next Generation

When you have a new engine, you're a little more confident that you're keeping up with technology.

DICE has said several times that Battlefield 3 will push both the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 to their limits, and the studio isn't frightened of new consoles, either. DICE executive producer Patrick Bach told CVG that the upcoming FPS would be one of the best-looking console games of the year, but he'll "prove it rather than talk about it." And furthermore, he claims their Frostbite 2.0 engine "could cope with a new generation:"

"I don't know what the big corporations are thinking but definitely we are desperate to move on into the next generation. I think Battlefield 3 will look like a next-generation game and all the technology we're building, the whole Frostbite 2 system - the animations, audio, everything - is trying to aim for a couple of years in the future, rather than looking at what we have today.

We are already there. If [Microsoft or Sony] were to release a new console tomorrow, the engine would scale onto that platform, because we have been looking at not only the PC technology today but also speculating what will happen tomorrow when it comes to these things. So everything from our streaming technologies [to] rendering technologies is scalable onto future platforms."

Planning ahead is always a good idea. If you have an outdated engine and your productions look outdated on current consoles, you can't possibly be in a good position for the next round of systems. But DICE appears to be in the opposite position...and we're all sorts of excited for Battlefield 3.

Tags: dice, battlefield, ps4, playstation 4

4/14/2011 10:47:24 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (81 posts)

bigrailer19
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:02:15 AM
Reply

I'm excited for the game, really am.

But when I hear things like this it makes me wonder. Sure the engine would work on the next generation of consoles, but will it work at a level that the GoW3 engine is working on the PS3, or ND's engine on the PS3? I mean you can have an engine that will work, but will it work to that level? We'll see how good BF3 looks when it releases before I say anything about their engine. But I am really excited for BF3, and if it looks as good and runs as good as they are saying, can't wait!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 4/14/2011 11:02:52 AM

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Godslim
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:03:21 AM
Reply

" I think Battlefield 3 will look like a next-generation game " bold claim tbh
tho bf3 has me excited cant wait!

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FatherSun
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:04:39 AM
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When they make an engine that the current consoles cannot run then they should introduce the new consoles. PS3 if fine for now. Can't say the same for the BOX and Wii is CUBE 1.5 so I expect M$ and Nintendo to jump in first. I am not against the next gen but I am content with what I have. What would a PS4 be like anyway? More RAM, upgraded processors? What else? A few tweaks here and there. PS3.5 may be all that is needed. It seems like they wish to create the perception of a need for a new console generation as opposed to the actual NEED of it.

I wish Sony would just blast the comp into oblivion. Let the competition show their stuff. Then introduce the historically much more advanced PS4 afterward then kill them by putting the machine out to market before they do. That would be some accomplishment. Wouldn't it?

Yeah I fantasize about this. Sony has been persecuted too much this generation. Undeservedly so. I just can't get how most can't wrap their heads around the value of the system. I do blame Sony somewhat. They need to be a better pusher man.

Last edited by FatherSun on 4/14/2011 11:16:01 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:29:45 AM

The thing is though, that the game console is a known quantity. the programming model for consoles is based on that consistent platform that is known inside out. You build an engine and incrementally improve and optimize it to fit the platform. Having many years of a single platform allows significant improvements in the engine design and performance. What DICE are doing though, is building a new game engine for contemporary high end gaming rigs and then back-porting that to current consoles. There's an obvious flaw in that the capabilities of the GPUs in a contemporary high end gaming rig are vastly superior to the GPU capabilities in the current consoles, as is the GPU performance available.

DICE are essentially complaining that the capabilities of today's consoles have not changed with the GPU industry. Well, of course they haven't, they never were going to. That's the nature of a video game console, it's a single, closed, fixed platform. It is what it is. If they spent more time working on their console game engines and less time building ever more exotic PC game engines they might have more success.

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 4:09:10 AM

hell no!
they would have less success!
90% of DICEs fans are hardcore PC fans, you really suggesting they should stop making games for the PC, and start giving 90% of there fanbase a crappy console port?
look at all the crap crytek are copping after doing the exact same thing with crysis 2!

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Highlander
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 9:34:11 AM

Not really, I'm suggesting that they stop expecting a 5/6 year old console generation can keep up with the latest GPU love from AMD/ATI and nVidia. I'm saying that rather than whining about it, they could focus some of their talent on console specific game engines rather than trying to shoehorn their PC version onto the consoles.

The complaints about the consoles comes across as a complaint that the consoles haven't kept pace with PCs. Well, no duh! Of course they haven't they're a platform that's fixed in stone at launch. DICE are smart enough to know this, yet they'd rather sound like churlish children than mature developers - IMHO of course.

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 11:21:02 AM

they are, if battlefield 3 is not one of the best looking console games this year ill eat my nacho hat!
there about pushing systems to the limit, no matter what system it is.
so of course there going to want more!
there one of the few developers out there that really wants to show the world how far games can go, how photo realistic we can get.
and i applaud them for that!

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AshT
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:13:02 AM
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those are bold statements, i guess first they have to come up to the level of PS3 exclusives... yet i'm quite excited for BF3

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maxpontiac
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:15:15 AM
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The PS3 will live up to it's potential once the next generation Xbox comes out.

The lack of HDD and Blu Ray, despite any 360 fan might say to the contrary, is an Achilles heel.

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main_event05
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:23:24 AM

I <3 how Sony develops new tech for their consoles instead of using dated tech. I guess that is one of the differences between being a hardware company that makes consoles and being a software company that makes sad excuses for consoles.

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maxpontiac
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:40:13 AM

It's also why my money goes to PS3 developers first.

The multiplatform catering studios get my attention after the fact.

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Temjin001
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:15:59 AM
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This Xbox fan would welcome a new console. And then, a couple years later, the almighty PS4 that, unequically, will lay the smack down with its awesomeness and attractiveness.

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Simcoe
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:23:36 AM

My concern, if the ps4 comes out a "couple years after" the next xbox, will most (3rd party) developers, once again, use the xbox as their ceiling and not try and progress a game beyond that?

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kraygen
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:56:00 AM

shouldn't be a problem, with the tech that M$ is willing to use even if they came out with a new system it would at best match the ps3.

So really all it would do for ps3 users is mean we might not have our games gimped as bad, but of course the M$ product will most likely still be using dvds so I guess we'll be gimped for a while.

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Temjin001
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:02:53 PM

Good concern there Simcoe. The all knowing Temjin who has been to the future and back is ready to divulge the details.

If the Ps3 had more RAM and a bit more powerful GPU it could've easily had superior multiplats this gen over the 360. that is, if the ps3 played by 360 rules, it could always muscle through superiority without Cell optimizations. As it stands now the memory capacity and GPU abilities are so close to each other that it's hard for devs to give ps3 multiplats that superior edge.

So to relate this to PS4, if it had a sizable performance lead over the nextXbox in terms of memory and GPU we could expect multiplats to be superior in nearly every case. And, of course, the first party stuff will be uber better. So, in the end, rather than a situation like we have now, where PS3 has better looking exclusives but sketchy to uncommonly better multiplats, we'd have complete superiority. And, at last, the world would be ours.... and we shall have peace.

Longest cellphone post ever..... For me
Oh and nevermind the going into the future bit, Id erase that but icant figure out how to scroll my phone back up there. I changed gears on my post unexpectantly. Yeah, I can be random like that

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:36:02 PM

Temjin,

As Sony's first party devs have shown, you can leverage the CellBE's SPUs to supplement the GPU, and the GPU can access data in main memory and graphics memory simultaneously and at more or less the same bandwidth. So using the Cell SPUs to offload some tasks from the GPU to free it up for other things works quite well. It also effectively grows the available memory for the graphics. Of course as you point out, multi-plat devs are not going to go that route, but if they did, I think we'd see a whole order magnitude improvement in multi-plat games on PS3.

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Temjin001
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:51:51 PM

Yah man, now that devs like bioware used Sonys spu driven AA in games like DA2, memory is being freed up and we're seeing a performance advantage PS3 side

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Simcoe
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:17:14 PM

I remember reading that Sony wanted developers to use the SPE's and not be so dependant on the GPU. It's just easier and less costly for 3rd party developers to use the GPU rather than spending a lot of time and money experimenting with the SPE's.

Of course the media format is another big concern. There have only been a handful of games that have dared used more than 1 DVD. We've all heard the costs and penalties for developers releasing xbox games using more than one disc.

As time goes on, 3rd party developers have had to start learning and tapping into those SPE's. I'm hoping that the PS4 continues to use the latest version of the CellBE if only to keep things simple for developers (obviously BC for PS3 games would be nice too).

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 2:20:40 PM

Sadly Simcoe, the CellBE project ended and there will be no more direct updates past the several year old PowerXcell8i processor. However the Power7 processor - which is a *monster* big chip - incorporates a lot of design concepts and elements from the CellBE project, obviously everything is enhanced and optimized even further in Power7 as well. However Power7 is mostly a server chip, and it is extremely large - resulting in low yields rather like the early CellBE production.

However, if the CPU was slimmed down by removing some of the ridiculously large on-chip cache, dropping one of the 4 channel memory controllers and keeping the number of complete cores on the chip under control (I believe it can do as high as 8 cores, although each core has 12 different execution units (that are almost cores in their own right). Each core in the Power7 architecture can handle 4 threads simultaneously. So a quad core system can have 16 different tasks running simultaneously. Each core has 4 double precision floating point units, which provides huge floating point math capability, even relative to what the CellBE designs can do.

The Power7 is a PowerPC derived design, so they are in the same family as the CellBE is. It's not outside the realm of possibility to imagine a quad or 8 core Power7 being at the heart of the PS4, it does rather depend on how well they can scale the design for consumer systems. Also, Sony now owns the CellBE manufacturing plants again, the ones that it had previously sol it's half share of to Toshiba. I believe that Sony also has access to the SPURS design that Toshiba was manufacturing for a while which is essentially a CellBE without the PowerPC element - in other words it's just the SPUs.

I'll just indulge in a little geek speculation now...

I could imagine an architecture that has a Power7 CPU with a SPURS co-processor and perhaps even a fermi GPU. The SPURS co-processor would provide the SPUs that are needed to maintain PS3 compatibility, using an nVidia GPU would make backwards compatibility with RSX potentially easier, but the real powerhouse in the system would be the Power7.

That would be a very nice, very, very fast system that offers easy backwards compatibility with PS3. Can we say Yeah!?

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Dancemachine55
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 7:38:47 PM

Highlander, send in a resume to Sony, cos that would be a dream machine to house all those components to make the Playstation 4.

Only 3 issues come to mind though,

1. Price - new tech = big bucks
2. Heat syncing and reduction issues
3. A new optical disc format that's larger than 100GB that Sony was rumoured to be toying with. (again, expensive)

Hopefully the PS4 will not go above the $599 USD price point like the PS3 did on launch. (Or $999 AUD, which was $300 more than a 360 in Australia, and guess which sold more? The cheaper console)

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Qubex
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:16:40 PM

What ever happens Highlander, if Sony skimp on RAM, then were are screwed again... with the I/O being horribly slowed down with additional hard drive thrashing we see today.

If go onto HOME, and then, while staying in the HOME square, hit play-station button a browse your friends list via the XMB, try to send a few messages, you will see the poor machine suffer as it desperately tries to multi task and manage RAM access at the same time...

The amount of RAM has definitely become the PS3's biggest bottle neck. As you stated before, in your longer posts... the Cell Be and RSX combination is very powerful, if there were no RAM restrictions, these chips in concert could crunch through a huge amount of data very quickly... The physical HD, the Ram and Blu-Ray player all contribute to actually slowing down the system :(

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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main_event05
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:20:02 AM
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"DICE has said several times that Battlefield 3 will push both the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 to their limits"

How is that gonna work?? Are they gonna make two completely different games?


And Ben this is way off topic but i'm having trouble changing my avatar. whatever I upload turns into that old pic i had of me and my now ex-girlfriend.

Last edited by main_event05 on 4/14/2011 11:26:29 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:23:48 AM

One would hope so since a game optimized for the 360 looks like crap ported to the PS3, and a game optimized for the PS3 (including heavy SPU use) looks like crap when ported to the 360.

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maxpontiac
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:39:08 AM

I don't see EA and Dice offering an inferior version to the Shooter happy 360 population.

By my estimate, BF3 should be at least a 2-3 disc DVD game with one to two for the singleplayer and one for the multiplayer.

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Underdog15
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:16:33 PM

@main_event
I've noticed when uploading, it might not show the new pic to you. But move on as if it has. Go find a post you have made, and refresh the page.

New avatar should show.

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main_event05
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:48:01 PM

thanks for the tip

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Clamedeus
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:13:08 PM

Sometimes it takes a couple of minutes for it to show up when you update your avatar.

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jdt1981
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:28:55 PM

That's what I'm wondering... We hear this BS all the time and it annoys me. If they go the usual third party multi-plat route and make the game identical on all platforms there's no way their game will push the PS3 to it's limits. Third party multi-plat devs always say this crap and yet PS3 exclusives always outclass MP games.

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:23:01 AM
Reply

I think DICE's biggest problem here is that they have build a game engine for PC graphics whores who's video card costs more than a couple of PS3s. That's all fine and well, but that kind of ridiculous engine simply doesn't scale back to video game consoles, and it never will. Today they're complaining. In two eyars, their PC based engine will require twice as much hardware again, and even if a new game console generation magically this year, it would be out of date before it had achieved any significant market penetration. Honestly I'm so bloody sick and tired of the treadmill of constant upgrade that the PC game developers want to foist on game consoles. the whole point of game consoles is that it's a closed, fixed platform that doesn't change, which allows developers to invest time and effort in optimizing their game engine for the specific platform. But because *some* developers are primarily developing on the PC and constantly scaling their engines to match the best available PC hardware (and then some) they are utterly missing the point of game consoles. then, shock horror, they come out with whining statements saying they want a new generation of console. Of course they do, that's easier for them than paring their engine down for current consoles and optimizing it appropriately.

This is getting ridiculous, I'm beginning to think this is the PC gaming industry's final revenge.

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Snorge
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 3:23:41 PM

LoL! I agree man. The PC gamers kinda have gotten screwed this gen since the devs are more focused on consoles since there seems to be less piracy (I really dont think so, your average PC pirate can easily become your run of the mill console pirate as well).

And to boot, yes I stopped playing PC games a couple years ago just becuase I got tired of dishing out money for a faster processor, more ram, and better video card EVERY time a new AAA game came out...UGH

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Killa Tequilla
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:56:47 AM
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I already pre ordered and put down 60 bucks on the table.

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kraygen
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:59:23 AM
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When I see a third party game with ps3 exclusive quality all the way around, then I'll start considering the possibility of a next generation.

What I've seen of BF3 looks really awesome, but most likely it's pc graphics and until the game is out and we see a perfect running beautiful game on ps3, the next gen talk can just shush.

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:10:06 PM
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How do they know considering they have zero clue as to what would be under the hood of these new consoles?

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amonte
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:33:21 PM
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"DICE has said several times that Battlefield 3 will push both the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 to their limits"

It's impossible for a multiplatform game to push the PS3 to it's limits. How about DICE, you make a PS3 exclusive that completely uses all of what the PS3 has and than you can start talking about next-gen.

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Temjin001
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 12:45:46 PM

There's a world of difference between pushing a system to it's limits in contrast to optimizing a system to it's limits. I could get in a Ferrari and put the peddle to the metal just fine(pushing it to it's limits) but not anyone could be as fast around a pro circuit like a pro (or ninja) could.

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Snorge
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 3:25:34 PM

A ninja driving a car!? DISGRACE! lmao

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big6
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:07:30 PM
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As an aside, I'm absolutely positive the new Xbox will not be called "Xbox 720". =)

Most-likely, it will be something with a name, and not an iteration number.

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main_event05
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:36:17 PM

maybe they should call it the 180, in hopes they'll go in the complete opposite direction they did this gen.

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 2:22:12 PM

XSphere?

Xperia Play?

Oopsie!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:15:06 PM
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*Sight, moan* Don't lay your dissatisfaction with the currently last gen hardware you have to squeeze your games onto at the feet of the PS3.

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Dancemachine55
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 7:49:39 PM

Speaking of last gen, PS2 has finally been laid to rest. 2011 was the final year of FIFA, WWE and a few Japanese games.

If DICE want a new console, they will just have to wait like everyone else. If they don't like consoles, than just stick to PC development, miss out on a huge chunk of potential gamers on consoles and quit your whining.

Like Highlander said, consoles are a closed system that you spend time to optimise. If DICE want to keep pushing tech and graphics and physics forward every 2-3 years, consoles are not the way to do it. DICE, of all companies, should know that.

As for using a current-gen engine on a next gen console, isn't that a bit of an achilles heel? Sure, you can upscale it, but I prefer to see something fresh and that wows me on a new console. God of War 1 and 2 were upscaled, look amazing, but it's definitely not current gen tech.

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:25:15 PM
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It makes sense. If they've built their engine to take advantage of the cutting-edge tech available in PCs, I can fully understand why they'd be crying for a new console cycle. That is a world apart from the consoles of today... in some aspects anyway. However, pushing the PC to its max is different from a console, as the PC is constantly evolving and a developer only need to continue to max out the processor. Consoles remain standard for many years, so it requires learning the ins and outs of the architecture to really make a top notch game on them.

Still, this news makes me really hopeful for Battlefield 3, even if it doesn't necessarily increase my desire for a PS4.
Peace.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 1:26:44 PM
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i would love to see a new round of hardware. the leap from generation to generation is always fun to watch unfold. the leap from the ps2 to the ps3 was impressive. i can only dream of how big the leap to the ps4 will be.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 4/14/2011 1:28:34 PM

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Clamedeus
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:16:40 PM

That would be cool, but i don't think we are ready yet.

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Highlightreel
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 2:19:59 PM
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Ok, I KNOW this has been said a million times already, but how long does the ps3 have to suffer b/c of the capabilities of the xbox? I'm starting to get a twitch! When when when will they make a console game that maxes the ps3, and therefore, the game CLEARLY looks and is better on the PS3 vs the xbox?

They already do this for pc's. Games on pc's look better than on consoles. Also, if you have a better pc it looks better than a crappy pc. You have a better system it should look better than the other systems!! So simple. Does m$ really pay everyone to hold back on the ps3??? Are game developers going to get banned on the xbox if their game looks better on the ps3? What's up man? I need a hug.

Stay classy PSX...

Last edited by Highlightreel on 4/14/2011 2:21:23 PM

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Snorge
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 3:44:03 PM

...hug? LMAO! I can picture you on the end of the couch rocking back and forth with your arms wrapped around your legs with your lip quivering....LoL!

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Crabba
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 2:25:34 PM
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"Battlefield 3 will push both the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 to their limits" - Somehow I doubt that... xbox yes, PS3 not likely. Even if this game turns out to be one of those games that look the same on both consoles, it's still a far cry from pushing the PS3 to its limit...

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RadioHeader
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 2:28:07 PM
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Damnit, I misread - or misplaced the quotes in the title and thought they were confirming "Move" support. Instead it's this crap again..

I've done my calculations and have determined that the PS3 is good for another 40 years, at least. I may need that time to finish Demon's Souls.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 3:47:44 PM
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Well, it looks like they might get there wish with Nintendo supposedly going to unveil a new console at E3

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Highlander
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:32:48 PM

Indeed. The next Wii might actually match the PS3 and/or 360. Like I've said before, and will say again, HDTV resolution is limited to 1080p. A Wii HD will at best catch up with the existing HD consoles - capabilities. Considering the game libraries and strong first party support for PS3, I don't think there's much to fear from WiiHD, although, when it eventually launches it will sell like the proverbial hotcakes for a while as the more affluent Wii owners upgrade. If Nintendo announces the WiiHD, expect both Sony and MS to fire back with a price cut and especially from Sony, even more online emphasis and first part exclusive content.

I think that unless MS is ready to announce the 360's successor at E3 also, they will do what Sony did and wait it out. If both Sony and Microsoft stand pat on their current systems with price cuts and ever more games, they can go another two years without a new console because the Wii really will not offer much of anything over and above what the 360 and PS3 already have. This could be very good for Sony/MS and very bad for Nintendo, if both Sony and MS handle it correctly. Nintendo also needs to remember that while MS was blasting Sony when the PS3 launched, that was because Sony was the primary competition. Now with an HD console, Nintendo enter's the fray with 75 million Wii owners out there to boot. That makes them a much more important target than they once were. Nintendo could find itself on the receiving end of a FUD campaign as MS struggles to remain relevant outside the US market.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:44:27 PM

Agreed. So long as MS/Sony wait out announcing/releasing their respective successors I don't see the Wii2 really offering much more than what is already on the market. Supposedly Nintendo would like to "recapture" some of the hardcore gamers that they lost with this new console, so it will definately be interesting.

I think the need to release a new console is one that is needed by Nintendo more than MS/Sony though. Wii sales have been in decline for over a year now. And there is obviously alot more room for growth with the PS3 hardware for developers than there is with the Wii. I hope that MS/Sony don't feel the need to jump into the fray and do anything crazy any time soon. They both did expect for the Move and Kinect to extend their current systems life. Hopefully that'll stay true until at least 2013-2014.

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Qubex
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:22:30 PM

Highlander, good point about the Wii HD, but I do recall many a time writing about this previously. I have warned in many of my posts that Nintendo are a dark horse here.

I also noted a fair few times that it would be in Nintendo's interests to go for the jugular and release and awesome HD console; as you stated, with their huge inherent user base, they would keep many a gamer on their systems in the future... especially if they released something compelling.

If I were Nintendo execs I would be acting on this NOW! I would be drawing up a very powerful console that would give both M$ and $ony a run for their money. Why not? Ninty has nothing to lose but everything to gain. I hope they do it, to shake up the market somewhat and keep M$ and $ony honest...

Anyway, time will tell us everything, as it usually does... I am sure Ninty are not that stupid as to permit their influence and power to simply be drained away because $ony and M$ can now do stereoscopic 3D gaming... surely Ninty will do something about it.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Highlander
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 9:55:12 AM

Qubex,

If Nintendo push out a very powerful console, it will cost them because it will cost more to make than their current price point with the Wii. If both MS and Sony drop their price by $50 (or more?) this year, that would place whatever WiiHD emerges in the difficult position of being a) the most expensive, and b) not really offering much of anything not currently on offer from MS/Sony. If Nintendo is willing to emulate Sony and spend money on every console sold, they could keep their price more competitive. But to have a console more powerful than PS3/360 I don't think that they can expect to come in at a $300 or less price and make a profit on every unit. With DS, 3DS and Wii, Nintendo has been in the very envious position of making money on each unit. Do you see them turning that on it's head to make a state of the art console unit and taking a significant loss on each one sold?

That doesn't seem to be Nintendo's normal mode of operation. Also even of they did come out with a console that was somehow more powerful at a reasonable price, the parameters for what it's maximum capabilities are are easily drawn, and the 360 and especially the PS3 already fulfill the majority of the parameters.

Motion controls, HD video, HD games, Online play, Online content, Optical HD disc, fast ethernet, Cloud based services, etc...

Forgetting PCs for a moment, because the really high resolution monitors change the rules of the game there. If you look at home video game consoles they connect to a standard consumer HDTV which absolutely pegs resolution at 720p/1080i/1080p, 3D is beginning to enter the market as well, but the resolution remains locked at the 720p/1080p level. The established optical formats are DVD and BluRay, and there is no sign of that changing. Online services are limited by the third party ISM infrastructure of the user, so online is effectively capped out between 3Mbits/second and 6Mbits/second (though obviously some players have better speed). Motion controls involving controllers with motion sensors, motion capture technology and optical tracking via camera are now standard across all home consoles. Voice input is available on all home consoles, and gesture based control relies on a camera which both PS3 and 360 already have.

If Nintendo somehow managed to bring a system based on a CPU with more than 8 3.2GHz cores and 1Gb or more of RAM and a modern GPU, what can they do inside that set of parameters that is significantly different to what the 360 and PS3 already offer? That's the problem I see for them. Even if they brought out a system with twice the performance and RAM of the PS3, none of it's games would look to players, significantly different to the same game on the PS3 - or the 360. Multi-platform games on a WiiHD would suffer the same fate as multi-platform games on the PS3 have. So it would be down to the exclusives. Are people really willing to rush out and replace their wii with a more expensive Wii HD so that they can have the same Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc... games only in HD?

Don't get me wrong, I don't dismiss an HD Wii, but I do strongly question how it represents a massive threat to the established players in HD console gaming. To me it seems like it would require Nintendo to act in a very non Nintendo manner, and it would require consumers to perceive a sufficient benefit of the WiiHD over the Wii, 360 or PS3. I just don't see that significant benefit.

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Qubex
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 10:23:58 AM

Have to admit, you raise some strong points in your argument. Yes, we will have to wait and see if an HD Wii catches on... but are you surprised it was announced? Remember the times I was saying they would come up with something, and it looks like the finally did... incredible :)

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Wissam
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 4:49:09 PM
Reply

Why don't you show us some ps3 or x360 footage of BF3. oh. its EA games again. guess we have to wait for E3. its just less than two months.

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FM23
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 7:06:23 PM
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Well Shift 2 was suppose to surpass GT5 and it failed proudly. Not sure about developers sucking their own D*cks man...they need to release a product and have the consumer decided what looks and plays better. BF3 looks great, but then again...that was PC footage with no actual in game gameplay. I'm pretty sure people can optimize these consoles to there potentials...I mean San Andreas was made on the PS2 and PS3 games have far surpassed what I thought gaming consoles could achieve. Just let these consoles play there course instead of trying to make sequels to everything and blaming the hardware for limiting its potential.

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FxTales
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 7:28:39 PM
Reply

Is it not okay to just straight out say "We want next generation consoles because of the current Xbox's lack of DVD space and because we can't be bothered developing soley for the ps3"?

This bitching and moaning of late is a surprise to me, it's only been 4-5 years since each consoles release yeah? Why the need to push for new consoles.

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Qubex
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 11:37:13 PM

Because the PC is pulling ahead quite quickly Mell, and it is showing the consoles up to some extent.

Developers like DICE have felt that they could probably be making better experiences and engaging more customers if they had platforms that were fairly equal in output. If programmed properly for though, we have seen the PS3 is pretty much up to the task, but its age is showing here too somewhat. I think DICE would simply like to be able to make the best game they possibly can, rather than have to "dumb" the game down to fit onto consoles.

It can give them a lot of optimisation headaches. If they want to make sure they can fit everything and make the game environment work smoothly, they have to make sure their streaming technology is also up to scratch, reducing pop up and texture fill in... and LOD routines, in order to make sure frame rates are sustained...

Scary stuff!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 4/14/2011 11:37:54 PM

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 4:10:26 AM

ahhhh, you do realize we normally get new consoles after 5 or so years right?
so now is the exact time to start thinking about ushering some new hardware.

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Highlander
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 9:57:58 AM

@AC,

But, both MS and Sony have repeatedly stressed a longer life for this generation than before because of the large investments, slow starts and (at least in the case of the PS3) consoles that were significantly more capable (relatively speaking) at launch than in previous generations.

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 11:23:01 AM

yea, i doubt this gen will be over anytime soon.
but thats not going to stop developers asking for it.
i know a crash bandicoot remake is never going to come, but does that mean im going to stop asking for it?
f*ck no!

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Dancemachine55
Thursday, April 14, 2011 @ 8:04:07 PM
Reply

Sorry DICE, I have a hard time believing you've actually maxed out the PS3 since you're using the architecture like a 360.

Until you fully use all the cores to their full potential, you haven't maxed out anything.

I think DICE are really calling out for MS to bring out a new console since they still use dated DVD tech, dual-core processor and a fairly old graphics card.

Sony don't really have to worry. Only reason to bring out a new Sony console is when the MS console begins to dominate in power and grpahics and the PS3 can no longer keep up. THEN the PS4 will come out and dominate over 4-5 years once again.

And hopefully this time, the PS4 will come with a wireless headset packed in and cross game party chat. I know a lot think it's not a big deal, but it was a huge deal breaker with my friends. They loves the party chat and online play on 360. Such a small option is such a big deal between the choice of quality console with excellent exclusives or decent console with better online. Online console won at first, but quality fought back well. Sony has conquered the world, now it must conquer the US, the MS loving nation full of blind-sided Xbots who once believed that MGS4 and God of War III would come to their console. HA!!!

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main_event05
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 1:41:57 AM

not the cross game chat again, if its that important, use a phone.

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Snorge
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 4:00:59 PM

I whole heartedly agree....I own and play both systems (Of course I prefer the PS3) but the PS3 not having cross game chat was a deal breaker for many, and I have to say this whol use a damn cellphone or just text them bullsh*t is just ignorant IMO.

It seems those who are saying this have not expereinced this on the 360. Just becuase it is not a feature you would like doesnt mean it isnt massively wanted or needed. Im tired of feeling like Im living in the dino days sending texts and nothing else.

I mean you can even send VOICE messages on the 360. I understand if you have tried and it and are dismissing it but if not, STFU and dont be a blind fanboy not wanting a great feature from the 360 to come to 360.

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Qubex
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 1:47:54 AM
Reply

Speak of the devil... Eurogamer have announced that the Wii2 announcement will be made at e3 this year... Nintendo says it will be significantly more powerful than the 360 and the PS3.

They want to regain the hardcore market!!!

Looks like my prediction was correct and has come true...

Nintendo was the Dark Horse after all!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Highlander
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 9:56:34 AM

Alternately they are trying to play catch up because thy realize that they should have come with HD in the first place....

;)

Read my longer reply to you further up, I'm not entirely sure that Nintendo really is that dark horse you suggest.

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Qubex
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 10:25:27 AM

Yes I did, and you make valid points. I think without a strong set of titles... it may take longer to catch on than they even think. Sony still has the cream of the crop. By investing in their world wide studios, they are doing better and better as we type :)

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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CoolBLKguy
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 3:33:47 AM
Reply

Let me start off by saying I'm buying BF3 day one because Dice knows how to make good multiplayer games.

With that being said I'm personally not impressed with the graphics for BF3 from what they've shown. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't look bad but I'm not seeing anything that puts it over the first Crysis on PC or any of the other top games when it comes to graphics. I think it will end up like Crysis 2 on consoles, just a good looking game that doesn't look better than the best visuals on consoles now.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 4:08:21 AM
Reply

God, I really am starting to hate companies that say this. Hey guys, Naughty dog's engine is technilogically MILES beyond yours, and they don't need a new console.

Plus, am I the only one who though BFBC2 looked, quite bluntly, crap? Especially in that level in SP, where you have the option to do three levels in which ever order you like. It just looked really meh. Then they say that their next game is maxing out the consoles? Okay..doubt that.

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 4:16:02 AM
Reply

my lord i cant believe how arrogant people are here!
look at the trailers, and screenshots DICE have released of the PC version of battlefield 3.
im sorry, but NOTHING out there, not even RAGE looks as good as that!
we seriously need new consoles to push the industry forward, and stop holding it back because of ancient hardware!
im sick of getting crappy console ports on the pc because of ancient hardware!

if we had new consoles, it would change so much!
we could finally have all games running in 1080P 60FPS, instead of 720P 30FPS which most games run in.
we could have proper full HD 3D, instead of 720P 3D we have now.
games would be able to be a hell of allot larger then what they are now.
the only reason crytek went from a lush wide open jungle to the linear restricted streets of new york is because consoles do not have enough RAM to run wide open areas, with the detail and enemy AI crysis had.

i thought we were suppose to embrace change, and push for improvement.
not spit on the face of the person whos trying to bring it!

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Highlander
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 9:37:15 AM

Making a game 1080p rather than 720p does not make it larger, you seem to be mixing two elements there. At the end of the day, the mainstream is still mid-adoption when it comes to HD at all, so forcing the pace to switch everything to 1080p rather misses the target - for now.

One thing you need to consider is that regardless of the architecture, the more you stuff into the graphics engine in terms of complexity, detail and resolution, the less memory you have at run-time to hold the world you're rendering, and so consequently, more graphics will always equal a smaller potential game world - simply because you can't fit as much into memory if you're devoting so much of it to the graphics engine and data.

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Qubex
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 10:28:25 AM

The only thing is that with a PC you have scalability... it just looks better and better, the bigger the rig you have. The sky is the limit.

Battlefield 3 looks spectacular, far better than Killzone 3... it just looks so real. I really hope it comes across the PS3 as well as we see it on the PC. It should if they push the PS3 to the limits...

...and please, no corrupted or blocky shadows... please DICE!!!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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___________
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 11:31:52 AM

but thats the thing, RAM prices have dropped so much we can add so much to compensate for the visual increase and still have leftovers for nice big open worlds.
i picked up 2 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz kingston sticks for 140 bucks a few weeks ago!
hardware prices have plummeted so much in the last few years, especially RAM so that should not be a issue.

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Geobaldi
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 11:55:06 AM

Yep, RAM has gotten really cheap. And I'm sorry to say that you got jacked if you paid that much for yours. You could've gotten two 4GB Kingston Hyper-x 1600Mhz sticks for $40 less than that.

Last edited by Geobaldi on 4/15/2011 11:55:53 AM

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___________
Saturday, April 16, 2011 @ 9:18:51 AM

yes, but you have to remember here in AU everythings twice if not triple the price in the US!
thats actually the cheapest i could find it, other stores wanted 40-100 bucks more!
MSY is pretty much the cheapest place to buy PC parts in the country, plus if anyone has a cheaper price they will beat it by 20%.
a friend of mine today bought a GTX590 for 700 bucks, on ebay and other stores there going for 1000!

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Geobaldi
Saturday, April 16, 2011 @ 5:17:36 PM

Sorry. I didn't know where you were from since it's not stated on your profile.

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Geobaldi
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 5:52:29 PM
Reply

"Do you feel the consoles are holding PC games back?"

"Yes, absolutely."

As reported in an interview on GeForce.com.

http://www.geforce.com/#/News/articles/battlefield3-interview

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Qubex
Friday, April 15, 2011 @ 10:33:40 PM

That's interesting Geobaldi!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Aranha
Saturday, April 16, 2011 @ 2:06:02 PM
Reply

I guess when 2/3 of the current consoles are already tapped out, it's easy to make a statement like that, regardless of where their limits are at with the PS3. Even if the PS3 was only getting 30% usage out of their engine, but because the 360 is screaming "Uncle!" and the Wii can't even handle the games, by the time they look at the PS3, they're like 1: "next", and 2: "we're only getting a third of our potential sales with only ONE system that can handle everything we throw at it". DICE should just be straight-up and just say what they REALLY feel.

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Lairfan
Monday, April 18, 2011 @ 3:44:44 PM
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I'm glad to see they're enthusiastic about letting their game do the talking. That's what Crytek should have done with Crysis 2.

However, once again like Crytek, I'm not sure how they're able to push both consoles at once. Look at the quality difference between the exclusives for both consoles. If you're optimizing a game to look equally good on both consoles, you're never going to be able to tap all the extra power the PS3 has under the hood.

That being said, I haven't seen the PS3 version of the game yet (hell, no one has). I'm just hoping it look as good as the PC version, and maybe then I can start to agree with them on this matter.

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sazzrah
Monday, April 18, 2011 @ 7:02:54 PM
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*sigh* I wish these companies could try to remember that a pretty game doesn't always = mega bucks.

Look at Vanquish - easily one of the most graphically mind boggling games to arrive on PS3/X360 last year; they were damn near identical in every way and yet it sold like cow dung. Why? Pretty bad voice acting, barely any story to speak of, the gameplay was good but the game was short and ultimately overall quite unsatisfying.

Graphics aren't everything - we don't need a new console gen right now; I'm hoping for at least another 2 years before Sony and Microsoft start talking of launching new tech because 5 years is way too short for a console generation.

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