Since When Is The PSN Necessary For Playing Games?

Kiryu
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:37:06 AM
Reply

Infamous 2 Beta,GT5 Multiplayer.I require PSN now!

14 up, 6 down

DNA
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:41:31 AM

I completely agree about GT5. My birthday was during the network outage; no bday car for me :(

4 up, 1 down

sha4dowknight05
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:12:23 PM

same my birthday was on the 21st and boy was i pissed!!!

3 up, 1 down

JMO_INDY
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:38:27 PM

I'm just saying DNA, I see in the future I as others will, become annoyed of the ridiculous proportions of your avatar :/ just saying, downsize man.

0 up, 14 down

Nlayer
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:45:39 PM

I barely even noticed that PSN was down. It had barely an effect on me.

I also didn't notice DNA's avatar being too big, it looked okay to me.

I guess this means very little bothers me? Maybe I'm the weird one...

10 up, 0 down

AcHiLLiA
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:08:57 PM

DNA, nice big ass avatar.

16 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:34:38 PM

Demon's Souls ftw!

5 up, 5 down

Clamedeus
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 7:02:51 PM

Who ever down voted that has no Soul. =(

8 up, 2 down

kevinater321
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:47:45 PM

They may of voted you down because they just don;t like you. I had a lot of down voters for a long time.

2 up, 3 down

mid10smaradoarg
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:24:58 PM

socom confrontation is online only.

0 up, 5 down

Clamedeus
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:13:19 PM

@mid10smaradoarg

No one said Confrontation was a single player.

6 up, 1 down

sha4dowknight05
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:00:33 AM

nothing wrong with self-expression. he likes his big avatar and it's cool.

4 up, 0 down

Veritas Vincit
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:40:03 AM
Reply

I have been out of town for 3 days and I'm working this weekend. Doesn't really bother me in the slightest, I play more offline than I do online anyway. Yes Ben it's pretty sad.

4 up, 0 down

noshownogo
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:40:24 AM
Reply

Portal 2 Multiplayer is what I was gearing up for this weekend...Sony really dropped the ball with how they handled this situation.

Be honest and clear with your subscribers!

3 up, 2 down

Mornelithe
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:45:10 AM
Reply

Steam -> Killing Floor, Portal
Windows -> World of Warcraft
TV -> NBA Playoffs, MLB, NHL Playoffs
Outside -> Gardens to seed, fire pit to line with stone, yard to clear from a Winter of clutter.

There's tons, absolutely tons more important for me to be doing right now, so really, PSN being inactive isn't a huge issue to me. Sucks for those who were really looking forward to it though.

Personally, it's time Sony started playing nasty with these people. Counter DDoS, and fry their PC's.

7 up, 0 down

faraga
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:23:09 PM

About the Steam thing, I wanted to link my PSN to my Steam account so that I can play Portal 2 with a PC gaming friend. Guess I can't play multiplayer now until the PSN is fixed or I have saved the money to buy an HD tv.

1 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:42:09 PM

Yeah, I was talking about Steam on my PC, sorry, should've explained a bit better.

0 up, 0 down

Aranha
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:48:23 AM
Reply

I definitely see it as sad. I mean yeah, the network is down, and that sucks, but I honestly didn't find out until I came on this site a day or two ago. Been too busy with my real life, lol. Like you said Ben, most of the games we play don't require the PSN, and the only time I actually try and connect is when I'm doing a System Update. Only recently have I been interested in purchasing any games from the PSN. It's been weeks, if not months since I've tried downloading demos or videos from there. But, to each their own. I'm sure I'd play a lot more if I was 10 yrs younger, and would therefore feel the pain a bit more.

My concern stands more on the security end of this than the entertainment end. Mainly because I'm in the IT field, and because power in the hands of weak-minded individuals can be a terrible thing; possibly catastrophically disasterous.

I'd hate to see how PSN addicts are taking this though. This reminds me of some video called "Tantrum of the Year" or something like that on YouTube. Hopefully our society has NOT come to that. If so, I'll stand by, lol, and then smh at what we've become.

1 up, 1 down

NSPS3player
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:50:28 AM
Reply

Good thing I'm playing red dead redemption instead of cod. However I still want to play online with zombies

4 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:57:49 AM
Reply

wait ben you just commented that you hardly use psn except for work so are you really just as upset? god knows i am, i use it everyday. i just started a clan on kz 3, and practice daily. i'm not so sure you understand my pain of not being able to go online. i'm so frustratated with sony for their poor network security combinined with no redunancy. these attacks were telegraphed by the hackers, and sony fell flat on its face dealing with it. it has been down for freaking days!!!

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 4/23/2011 11:01:10 AM

4 up, 4 down

TheAgingHipster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:06:36 AM

We all lose a little something with the PSN outage. For you, the loss is arguably much bigger--no onling KZ3, losing planning and practice time with the clan, etc. Compared to me, who never plays online multiplayer, that's devestating. But, I always attempt the Daily Challenges in Tiger Woods '12, which requires the PSN, so there is one of my gaming habits shot.

Again, yours is, by most anyone's standards, a greater loss than my own. But, we've both gotten the shaft, and there is nothing either of us can do about it. I suspect that might be the rationale behind some of Ben's reasoning. It's certainly behind mine.

4 up, 1 down

shadowscorpio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:32:13 AM

It always irritated me that some games started integrating online as a necessity, though they are in the few.

6 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:14:12 PM

@theaginghipster

thank you for understanding my pain instead of mocking it. i sense some anti-muliplayer sentiments in this article.

1 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:06:08 PM

I'm as upset as far as Sony's silence, as I said in the article.

I suppose if all anyone does is play online, they're going to whine. My point is that the PS3 still plays GAMES. It isn't broken.

9 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:19:15 PM

I play a lot online as well, and i really don't get why everyone is complaining about not being able to go online, you will live. Some of you are very addicted with Online Play and need to chill out and do some serious offline playing to balance it out.

4 up, 2 down

Akuma07
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 12:41:48 AM

Well, seriously, what do you guys want sony to say?

They have told us they are trying to fix the problem.

People always say "I would rather a game be delayed so that it is polished more, then release it on-time and have it be buggy" well its the same thing here, Sony could turn the PSN back on right now if they wanted to, but they can't be 100% sure that the PSN wont be hacked again tomorrow.

Do you people REALLY want the PSN to keep being hacked? because i sure as hell know that i dont!!!!!

GO ahead sony, shut down the PSN for a month if you want, I have my games, you do what you have to do!

Oh and its kinda silly being annoyed at sony for them not having adequate security, the one thing that will always be true, hackers WILL hack, and they will hack EVERYTHING they can. Its all a big game to them, they don't care about the end user. and there will ALWAYS be someone who can hack something.

SO take a chill pill, Sony is doing their best, sit down, fire up your PS3, enjoy the games you have, or go do something else with your life, but my point is, GET OVER IT.

4 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 9:44:00 AM

Very good point Akuma07.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 4/24/2011 9:45:00 AM

2 up, 1 down

Axe99
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 5:25:26 PM

I'm as frustrated as anyone (I'm a huge SOCOM fan, and by the time I'd got home from the shops, PSN was down - it's a five-day long weekend over here, and I probs won't get any SOCOM in over any of it), but blaming Sony is like blaming the US for Pearl Harbor. It's the hackers that have given us the shaft, not Sony. Unless you ascribe to blaming the US for Pearl Harbor, then attack them, not Sony ;).

And great article Ben - I've been hittin' the SP hard this weekend, amazing how much you play through when the PSN's down, lol!

0 up, 2 down

Temjin001
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:58:03 AM
Reply

While I'm not a heavy online gamer type, my absolute favorite moments in gaming are spent in a competitive online fighter. The energy, intensity, detail and depth while slugging it out, just you and him, no excuses, no random outside variables, just pure mono e mono un-adulterated competition where only the BETTER player will emerge victorious. I have respect for those who defeat me and I always savor a great fight by the skilled. Nothing is better. Not by a long shot.

Anyway, one of the major issues I have with online downloads is the online tethering. I don't really feel like I own a game unless I have a physical copy.

5 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:30:02 AM

A good description of the competitive multiplayer experience. It's kind of like a sports game!

Have you ever tried any mmo's (multiplayer rpgs)? If you get to know a group of regular players those games has even bigger memorable moments.

Actually, singleplayer, multiplayer and mmo's are three so fundamentally different kind of games that they hardly can be compared.

0 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:40:09 AM

Oh no, BeamBoom, I value my soul too much to become an MMO addict =p
That, and gaming in general. I know too many who left all of gaming behind to grind their WoW character. Granted, WoW is complete awesomeness(well, they gotta do something about those visuals) but I don't want to create online social obligations that can and do have an effect on personal relationships and responsibilities. It's one of those genres that I'd rather leave alone. I need to have balance by creating boundaries.

0 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:59:42 AM

You sir seem to have control of your life. Good :)

I never liked WoW, actually. But that's to be expected since it seems like everybody else love it. I usually find myself being of a different opinion than the majority.

0 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:15:55 PM

Ah, well I need too. I have a wife and two kids who need me. That and I'm normally in school. Usually my gaming time happens after 8:30-9:00pm once my kids are in bed and I hav some free time to myself. Except for this Assassins Creed binge I had; man, I over did it playing that one, like straight through. Though, it was a rare situation where I was alone for a few days. It was fun, but the addict in me unleashed! It's amazing who we can become when we're alone.

1 up, 0 down

WolfCrimson
Monday, April 25, 2011 @ 8:41:38 AM

Whoa, another fighter here. Glad to see some of my kind here. Nothing beats the exhilaration and excitement of a good fighting game match, whether it is being played or being watched (thank God for Japanese FG tournaments). Rock on bro.

0 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:58:52 AM
Reply

@Ben Dutka: Christ, what a great article. You took the words right out of my mouth. Keep it up!

@Anyone: These sorts of things make me feel sorry for those gamers that only do multiplayer--one outage and it's like their console is bricked. Fortunately, those of us who enjoy the single player experience don't need the PSN to be up to enjoy our game collections! Bust out the older titles and go for the Platinum! (Working on it for Uncharted 2 right now!)

5 up, 0 down

Sogi_Otsa
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:01:16 AM
Reply

wow... hmmm i hate online play i really do. but i just got MVC2 and was playing with my friends so i kinda am annoyed at that but meh. only 4-7 game have multiplayer on my shelf anyway. if i ever finally get into the business I'll never make online play, except maybe fighting games. i just don't get why people want to play online sooo bad.

1 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:10:08 AM

i'll tell you why. it's the sense of community, and the sheer enjoyment of going against human opponets. TEMJIN'S post explains it beautifly.

3 up, 4 down

Temjin001
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:25:23 AM

Ah, thanks Excelsior. It was an outward expression of an inward passion.
=)

2 up, 3 down

Sogi_Otsa
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:55:50 PM

... community? i go online get my ass kicked and kick others' asses. boring tho. local multiplayer is much better.

0 up, 0 down

Godslim
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:03:26 AM
Reply

well i just got red dead redemption finally so im gonna play that

1 up, 0 down

sohio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:12:12 AM
Reply

I think you might be missing the point. It really aggravates me when people assume that just because people are upset, that we "have no life" or "should go outside",ect. There are millions of people out there, like me, who work 10-12 hour days and after coming come, after taking care of the wife and kid(s), have about an hour to ourselves to jump into KZ3, Portal 2, ect and can't play it. What about when those people have already beat single player? You are left with a "bricked" console because you can't play anything fun anymore.

I can understand the network going down for 12 hours, or even a day or two but it's been three days now. Sony needs to get their shit together and fix this, pronto.

4 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:35:12 AM

yeah i don't like some of the anti-multiplayer sentiments in the article, and not calling out sony for the network being down so long is ridulous. yeah, i'm going through withdrawal, and like i've read it's not much fun.

hackers to sony: we are coming to smack you in the head

sony: duh! what just happened? thank you for your patience.

i might be able to forgive a day, but this amount of time is pathetic. sony looks clueless, and inept in dealing with this. stuff happens, but it's been freaking days!!! sony does need to get their sh!t together. apparently they have an unsecure network with no redunancy.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 4/23/2011 11:36:02 AM

1 up, 8 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:50:25 AM

@Excel: I don't think you can be too categoric before you know what kind of challenge Sony has here.

If the hackers found a security hole that enabled them to enter psn network then it's not a case of just fixing this server side. The clients (the playstations around the world) still expect to be able to log on the old-fashioned way. They know no other way. So if Sony have to rewrite the logon process they have to reflect these changes in a system update on the ps3.
Ergo create a new version of the system software.
That's more than a quick fix...

Last edited by Beamboom on 4/23/2011 11:51:49 AM

5 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:58:25 AM

they should have had the software on standby ready for a breach. the hackers have been probing for weeks. are you saying sony shouldn't have a contigency plan in case of a breach other than pulling the plug for days?

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 4/23/2011 12:01:05 PM

1 up, 6 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:06:24 PM

Dude, nobody has "a better system" on stand by, just in case they get hacked. hehe!

Listen I'm not saying that this could not be avoided, or that Sony is without fault. What I'm saying is that it's too early to judge. We need to get more background info first.
But generally speaking I am pro "release it when it is ready" principle. *especially* when we talk about system software.

4 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:13:53 PM

i understand what you're saying, but i still stand by my statements that sony looks inept here and the length of the outage has been too long.

1 up, 3 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:13:53 PM

If you're freaking out and ranting online for hours on end about how you can't play online, you have no life. That isn't an assumption. It also says you're basically addicted to a certain type of entertainment, in my eyes.

Complaining is normal. What I'm seeing in many responses around the Internet is NOT. It's damn near frightening and DEFINITELY depressing.

It only proves single-player is meaningless these days.

4 up, 4 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:50:18 PM

sorry ben, didn't mean to freak out on you. you can say i have no life but it has been days. i'm just frutrated is all, but thank you for the site...i feel better venting. i hope i didn't depress you too much, but there are many of us who like the online multiplayer a lot. we miss it when its gone.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:16:01 PM

No, I'm not talking about you.

2 up, 0 down

OPHIDIAN
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:56:23 PM

@Ben:

I don't think the rants are by the general gaming population Ben. It does not necessarily mean single player games are dying. Those who are upset with the downtime are voicing their opinions, which is what you're reading. There is no need for those who like single player experiences to say anything, hence the apparent bias.

5 up, 0 down

Riku994
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:21:52 AM
Reply

I havent touched my PS3 in a long time, but recently I've been wanting to play U2 online. Yes there are other games I can play, but none that I`m really into at this point. It's not like this is destroying my life but I mean it would be nice to be able to play when I want to.

1 up, 2 down

sha4dowknight05
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:23:20 AM
Reply

It's a bad blow since mortal kombat, socom 4, and portal have online, so after they came out with the servers down it is a big problem. But nothing like losing a loved one, or something. Seriously people who rely on PSN, get a life. Play single player or soemthign else.

2 up, 1 down

TheCrazyMerc
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:23:44 AM
Reply

I'm so BORED!

6 up, 5 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:33:42 AM

do you seriously think anyone cares?

8 up, 5 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:24:15 PM

I just realised your comment was regarding the psn problem and how your bored due to that.
I thought you were just some random person who said they were bored (like on facebook)
Sorry, id like to take my comment back but i cant edit for some odd reason.

10 up, 0 down

frylock25
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:55:48 PM

you can only edit a comment for 10 min after posting. it then locks

1 up, 1 down

booze925
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:26:41 AM
Reply

yeah, i've been playing GTA4 lately so i don't mind too much, but it just kills me that a couple of pizza faced squeaky voiced shaggy hair anti-social overweight no life bitches decide to take on a multimillion dollar corporation and ruin things for the rest of us.
"yeah, showny we jusht hacked your shilly network *snort* we're uber badasses!"
go meet a girl, ya needledicks

3 up, 1 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:33:27 AM

If this really is just a couple of "bitches" taking down a giant like Sony then I have to admit that I get impressed. It takes skills.

It aint the popular opinion around here, but on well. I'm easily impressed. ;)

Last edited by Beamboom on 4/23/2011 11:38:45 AM

0 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:53:11 AM

apparently these bithches broke into sony hq, kidnapped its ip department, and took the servers with them. how else can an outage of this length be explained?

1 up, 6 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:14:55 PM

Actually, if all they did was to steal the servers this would probably be less of a problem, and psn would have been up and running a long time already.

Problems arise when "someone" has entered your system "somehow" and did "something" there. Three unknowns.

Just imagine if you one day found a note on your windows desktop, saying "Hi there! I've been here. You may want to turn off your PC now. Kind regards Beamboom.".
What would you do to figure out how I was able to put that note on your desktop? And how would you find out what I've done, if anything?

Would you dare to log onto your bank account? Maybe a virus is activated if you start MS Word? Should you shut down the pc? Or is that what I want you to do, will you then never be able to start it again? Disks formattet at startup?

Ok, so you take no chances, reinstall windows and copy your backup files to your computer again.
But... What's stopping me from doing the same again? I've already done it once...

4 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:24:11 PM

i'll tell you how to stop it, have good network security in the first place. have good people in place that can monitor your network closely. i'm have a strong feeling these hackers used a common exploit, and sony just fell flat on its face dealing with it. i don't know that yet, but i suspect it's true.

1 up, 6 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:34:02 PM

Oh, I think you may be right there.
It seems like they have put too much trust in "security through obscurity", thinking that since it's not a "regular" web service using "regular" PCs it's safe enough.

4 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:28:54 AM
Reply

I don't know that its actually because we are PSN addicts per se. At least its not the reason that I'm talking about this issue. What really concerns me isn't as much as whether I can sign on to the PSN as it is the potential harm that hackers can inflict.

I've been enjoying leveling up and trying to obtain 100% of the words in NIER. The PSN being down is a set back , don't get me wrong ,but its what these hackers are doing to a business that I want to genuinely support as well as its costumers. Its the PSN now but whats next?

All I'm saying is that this is what concerns me more, not that I can't get onto the PSN because its a heroine fix or something.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 4/23/2011 11:37:36 AM

1 up, 0 down

Dreno
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:34:29 AM
Reply

So the psn being down, sucks. Plain and simple. BUT it doesn't really bother me at the current moment in time. Because I don't have internet at my place anyways.

But don't get me wrong, I feel for everyone playstation user that can't get on toplay games. Its ridiculous that these "anons". Think that they have to right to hack into psn, or anything for that matter, because they feel they are sticking up for the consumers, or what ever self righteous reason they spout off.

But there is one thing I don't agree with on the behalf of some playstion users.

I just read on gamefly news that some users are demandind free games and free access tp ps+ membership for sonny pulling the plug on the psn while they fix the issue. This is absolutely ridiculous. Period.. sony has the psn down, because our personal information and credit card information are at risk to the hackers. Tell me whhat you guys think? Is your personall and credit card info worth a free game or access to free ps+?

I really would like to know what everyones thoughts are on this, since I'm torn 50/50. Yeah it sucks, but I think sony is doing the right thing.

What do you all think?

3 up, 0 down

Jed
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 7:26:57 AM

I'm with you man. Sony isn't just trying to cover their ass, but make sure we and our security aren't at stake.

How would the mp addicts feel if Sony just threw the network back on and all of their online stats got wiped out by the hackers? They would wish that Sony took more time to make sure it was secure. Which is what they're doing.

Last edited by Jed on 4/24/2011 7:37:52 AM

0 up, 0 down

Dreno
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:47:12 AM
Reply

Oh, id just like to add, since I don't have net at my place, I've been playing ALL of my games on the sp campaign. And I must say, I'm really enjoying it. I've found a greater respect for the sp. Something I havnt felt since the whole mp became such a big deal.

I may even just hold off on getting internet for a while longer.
The games I been playing are : modnation racer, I been playing some wkc again, I've jumped into a little bit of codblops sp, bc3 sp, and even decided to do some things in brotherhood.

1 up, 0 down

daconverse
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:49:09 AM
Reply

I was just getting into killzone 3 multiplayer, but its cool. this gives me time to finish the single player campaign. Give sony a break, i just want them to take care of this situation. the only thing that urks me is the lack of information they profide for us. I even called them and the rep that i talked to could'nt answer any of my question without spittin out a lie.

0 up, 0 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:53:00 AM
Reply

.......meh......

Every playstation experiencing psn issues? That not much of a problem, ill only start complaining if every paystation in the world blew up with no apparent cause.

Last edited by gunblademaster on 4/23/2011 11:56:22 AM

1 up, 0 down

firstc624
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:58:53 AM
Reply

I know what you mean ppl just need to realize it is a game. I was at the store yesterday, picking up FF IV complete series (back when rpg was an rpg) and ppl their were quite irrate that they couldn't play portal 2 or COD, so i asked who cares about FPS, the looks i got were awesome. It was like they were saying " you have got to be kidding, you can't play a game w/o having fps online....it was very funny

*now i am going back to my FF :-D

1 up, 0 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:13:30 PM

final fantasy 8 rulzzz, my favourite one.

If you are an ff fan just like me, you should go to this concert called 'distant worlds'. They go all around the world and play music from final fantasy, look it up on the net to find out everything.
I went last week in the opera house, sydney...it was an experience I will remember for the rest of my life.

2 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:08:56 PM
Reply

I felt bad about my long rant. I wasn't trying to call people out or anything. So all I want to say on the matter is. Tale this as an opportunity to go do something this weekend. Enjoy the spring time. It'll be back up soon and you all, including myself can get back to playing on the PSN again. You really don't need to be so upset over this or at Sony. They are doing everything they can as quickly as they can. The PSN being down is lost revenue, trust me Sony doesn't want this! So again just take this, and go do something. These are just games not our lives, regardless how much of a hobby It is.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 4/23/2011 12:15:57 PM

1 up, 0 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:17:27 PM

STOP GENERALIZING!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAARRRRRRGGHH!!!

0 up, 0 down

gunblademaster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:26:00 PM

Oh, you changed your comment, in that case id like to take my comment back too but I can't edit for a very weird reason.

0 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:28:03 PM

Haha! I did it for that reason! I still feel the same way, but I expressed it wrong!

Don't worry about deleting your comment, it adds some spice to the mix!

0 up, 0 down

Danny007
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:19:23 PM
Reply

Okay, anyone want to bet on when PSN will be back up and running?

0 up, 1 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:28:16 PM

i don't know i'm starting to think it's broke forever. let's see, sony told me 1-2 days exactly 2 days ago so how about 7pm today.

1 up, 2 down

SSRGohan
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:34:30 PM
Reply

since when is psn necessary? well i got a bunch of socom codes to redeem or play its coop with my friends, portal 2 coop, infamous 2 content i cant share, psn store content i can't purchase or download. im sure the list can go on an on. we have become so dependent on the internet for everything that it is like a drug withdraw and we have to be strong hopefully sony will turn it back on soon

1 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:44:06 PM

yeah, with so many things tied to the internet and multiplayer being so popular you would think the answer would be obvious. i don't think ben is a big online gamer. i'm not so sure he understands the pain or frustration of no being able to go online. i might be wrong, but i could've swore he said he hardly uses psn except for work. there's a big difference between missing out on work, and missing out on your fun.

1 up, 4 down

Beamboom
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:06:37 PM

It's a very well known fact that he's not a big online gamer. :)

1 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:08:39 PM

Is this really the only type of "fun" you know how to have? Hmm I'm quite curious how that plays into a social role if indeed it is.

Im a big online gamer, probably bigger than you (just assuming) and im coping very well. Im upset of course, but I just don't understand how someone can be so upset as you. Especially since im an avid online gamer as well. Feel free to help me understand...

1 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:27:35 PM

no ii's not the only fun i have, but it's sorely missed. i'm getting sick of hearing get a life or go outside. it's been freaking days!! an outage of this length is inexcusable.

1 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:10:22 PM

"...that it is like a drug withdraw..."

Thank you for illustrating and proving my point.

2 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:38:14 PM

that's probably the best way to describe it, but i don't view it as a bad thing. it''s just become an important part of my daily routine, and i feel i miss it. it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't play a lot of games online. i think you understand, though. i miss the adreneline rush of going agaist live human opponets. i will admit i'm hooked.

i did notice you called out sony on their silence, but aren't they somewhat accountable for the length of this outage as well? are do you think this falls entirely on the hackers? i'm curious what your thoughts are.

thanks for the great sight btw.

2 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:40:49 PM

I only hold Sony accountable for their communication (or lack thereof) with consumers.

They did not cause or create this problem, however. And that's what matters most...the hackers deserve 100% of your anger.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 4/23/2011 3:42:26 PM

3 up, 0 down

wano
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 7:48:56 AM

Dont get me wrong here, im not suporting hackers or anything, but i dont understand how you could not hold sony accountable for this.

sure its the hackers who seem to have caused this, but ultimately it is sony who are responsablre for the security of there service, they are the ones who have turned the network off and are incontrol of maintaining the service properly. (this security issue may not be any risk to psn users in any way, we dont know yet)

if some one hacked in to my bank account and stole some of my money and then the bank froze my account so i couldnt use it, so they could over come there security issues. I dont think i would be saying..."thats ok bank, its 100% the hackers fault, and dont worry about that money I have lost because its not your fault at all"

I would deffinately hold them accountable.....(its there responsability to have the correct security in place, or they shouldnt supply the service) Sony should be experienced and professional enougth to deal with internet hacking issues (deffinately if its going to effect them this much)

With regards to the topic, yeah I tend to agree with you in terms of ...
online play should not rule your life, there should be much much more important things to be thinking of doing. if there arnt, you need to find some.

by the way, you never hear of any other organizations being hacked / infultrated to this extent...or do you??

Last edited by wano on 4/24/2011 8:00:54 AM

0 up, 0 down

SolidFantasy
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:38:58 PM
Reply

I guess I'm part of the minority that seldom uses the PSN. I would use it more often, but I can't seem to get my PS3 to connect to my internet and I don't see it worth my time to try and figure it out. The single player campaign on KZ3 is still entertaining and Dragon Age is more than enough to get me by w/o the PSN.

I can't even remember the last time I browsed the PSN! I must really be in small demograph.

0 up, 0 down

Dreno
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:39:40 PM
Reply

Cheers to you gunblade master, ff8 is my favore ff too.
So much so, that I got the griever symbol tattooed on my left wrist going down onto my hand. I got the griever necklace and ring. A squall collectors item action figure (hanging on my wall) and a 6" die cast replica of the revolver gunblade with moving hammer and cylinder. Also to hang on my wall.

Gonna make a sleeve for ff8 with the rest of the space I have around my griever tat. Gonna be si-ick.

1 up, 0 down

zork
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:45:51 PM
Reply

I play alot of single player games so the psn being down has not affected my gaming at all, also i went out yesterday and purchased another Playstation slim just to show my support for Sony.

0 up, 0 down

Gregory Freeman
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:49:55 PM
Reply

i haven't even so much as looked at my ps3 for about a week now... really, i've beaten all my sp games, my mp games are pre much played out, and i have no cash for any new ones... besides, my gf, friends, school... all of that means more to me than silicon chips and flashing lights... i mean, i still game, but i'm nowhere near as into it as i was back in 2008... i didn't even know about the outage until 5 mins ago...

0 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:51:23 PM
Reply

It's rare that I ever sign in to PSN so this outage hasn't affected me at all. I have yet to play one PS3 game online since I bought my system on launch day. All my single player gaming is on the PS3 and PC. Multiplayer is PC only.

0 up, 0 down

RadioHeader
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 12:55:27 PM
Reply

For me, the worst thing to come from all this was making the mistake of trying God of War in God mode. Goddamn f*ckin b*stard Hydra! F*ck You!!!!

3 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:09:44 PM

hahaha no doubt right? I couldn't get past the first few moments haha. But you have sparked an interest in giving it another try! Thanks! I think...?

1 up, 0 down

RadioHeader
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:49:03 PM

Don't do it, man! That Hydra's teeth are even sharper since we got the upscaled version :)

I'm just gonna put it on Easy and try the 5 hour trophy.

2 up, 0 down

AcHiLLiA
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:06:17 PM
Reply

Until then, let's all enjoy the warm weather, depending on where u live of course.

3 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:09:55 PM

Thank you!

0 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:14:51 PM
Reply

I'll bite: It's not. Never has been and hopefully never will be. I wholly agree with the sentiments displayed in the article, although my issue with this whole debacle doesn't stem from either the PSN downtime or the way Sony has handled it with their consumers (although that has been p*ss-poor). Rather it comes from the idea that this breach was severe enough to cut off the servers for several days, which means that it can't easily be fixed and is likely putting personal information at risk. Another source of irritation for me is that it seems to be all that any gaming coverage is... well, covering. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely important to many, but I prefer to see info on the games coming out, reviews, etc. At the same time, I know that the weekend is always downtime from all that, and with this being the Easter long weekend, it only makes all the more sense.

But yeah, some of the comments I've seen around the internet regarding the inability to access the PSN have been stupidly over-the-top. It's a FREE (key that) service provided to consumers. I understand that people are upset by it, but there's no need to vent in such an extreme fashion. As for me, yesterday I spent most of the day rearranging the furniture, reading and playing Sly 2. And now, I'm about to go fishing. There are bigger problems in the world, and other things to do. What more can I say?
Peace.

4 up, 1 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:36:26 PM

it does not matter if it's free or not. it's an advertised feature of the ps3, and an important part of a lot of games. many games are tethered to psn. i agree that sony's handling has been situation has been piss poor. they just look incompetent, period. the length of this outage is just ridiculous. absolute pr nightmare for sony. many are very upset about this, and this time sony's taking the brunt of the heat, not the hackers.

2 up, 5 down

WolfCrimson
Monday, April 25, 2011 @ 8:56:12 AM

Lawless: I'm sad. I pressed the thumbs up button many many times, but it only increased the 'Likes' of your comment by one. I agree with your comment, the reactions over the net have been waaay over-the-top and inappropriate. Patience is key, people.

0 up, 0 down

Eld
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:23:05 PM
Reply

Sad thing is multiplayer portion of most games is closer to platform for competition/social interaction in modern internet world than it is to computer games. Most are, probably, closer to sport competition games than computer games we simply called "games" for a very long time.

I'm not against multiplayer even though I don't use it much these days. In the past I even used to play MMOs, but I'm not a fan of how multiplayer has overshadowed single player which has unique appeal. I guess, single player has become victim of games becoming popular with people who wouldn't bother playing computer games otherwise.

0 up, 0 down

zork
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:27:09 PM
Reply

The game i will be getting on may 3rd is Under Seige, so hopefully all will be fixed by then.

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:34:36 PM
Reply

Been playing Uncharted 2 campaign today.

I'm not missing out of anything.

1 up, 0 down

rogers71
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:35:07 PM
Reply

This whole situation is hilarious. I absolutely loath Multiplayer so this doesn't affect me at all. I feel for those that do like it. I have an 8 year old son that only plays MP so I have used this time to introduce him to the real side of gaming. HA HA

I could equate this situation to something that use to happen when I was a kid. A bunch of the neighborhood kids would get together to play dodgeball and kickball. We would be heavily into a game and the ball would bust or get kicked into a yard we couldn't go into. After that we would just disperse to our homes and be bored for the rest of the day. Disperse people, nothing to do here. HA HA

3 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:58:11 PM

i don't find it funny at all. not only can i not play my favorite online games, but my favorite video game company is taking an absolute beating in the press. plus they are loosing a lot of money. this is a serious matter. if people don't have faith in the security of the network they will be less likely to spend money on it.

online gaming is just as real as single player gaming. for you, obviously not, but many enjoy it immensely. i know people that only play online so i can only imagine how they feel right now.

1 up, 4 down

Bloodysilence19
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 1:47:10 PM
Reply

the only reason why i want psn up mainly is to sync the trophies and Home. i only play against other players online for little bit now. i been enjoying sp aspect of the games more latly. most mp games now aren't fun anymore thanks cod for ruining mp. what these pov hackers did just makes sony want to presume harder punishment if any of them get caught like actually prison time for the hackers.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:07:08 PM
Reply

Seriously, most of us love PSN and want it back up asap but this incessant whining needs to stop. There are more important things to do or worry about. It's Easter weekend. Go spend time with your family. Not being able to play games online at the moment is NOT the end of the world and it shouldn't "pain" anyone. If people are feeling "pain" from not being able to connect to PSN, it tells me your priorities are seriously out of whack. People need stop blaming Sony too. They've done nothing but try and protect their business model, their network and most importantly, their paying customers from these pathetic little hackers. I appaulled Sony's move to shut it down in order to protect our personal information from these criminals. You can bark all you want about how they should have done this, or should have done that. The fact of the matter is what happened happened and there's no point in whining about. It's not going to magically make the network appear again. So what if it's been days. LIVE went down for 2 weeks in 2008 and they freaking pay for it! PSN is free and people really need to get over their entitlement kick and understand sh!t happens. It sucks but gamers really need to man up and just deal with it. I'm sure Sony is doing everything they can to get the service up again. It's in their best interest to.

7 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:24:22 PM

well, it does pain me. you can call it whining but it's been down for days. a lot of games are tethered to psn, and it just bugs me that hackers who broadcast thier intentions brought the network to its knees for days. plus, sony's handlng of this situation has been pretty poor, and made it baloon up to a far bigger story. i noticed sony's taking the brunt of the heat this time. how many more days will this outage last? it's been 2 days. i'm sorry, but people are going to whine when they can't gain access to an important feature in many games. some, might even feel pained by it.

2 up, 5 down

Jawknee
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:32:57 PM

That's just plain sad. I'm sorry if you feel I am being insensitive but it's not the end of the world and your obvious addiction to being connected online only proves the point Ben is making in his article.

7 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:45:35 PM

@jawk

ha!! you could be right. what's even sadder is that i just started online gaming a month or two ago. i still play a lot of single player games, but i miss the competition of going against human opponets. it is very addicting. i just hope the network's up soon. i'm starting to get frusrated. i replayed kz3 single player today, but i miss the multiplayer, badly.

1 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:51:41 PM

I know mang. I'd like to play some Killzone 3 online right now too but it's okay. The network will be back at some point. Not having PSN at the moment just frees up time for me to do other things. Like play my guitar, spend time with my wife and baby or go eat some delicious Tong Katsu.

2 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:07:52 PM

As I say, it's very obvious that there's a definite sense of addiction that goes along with multiplayer gaming.

Excelsior, the fact that you've had to reply to absolutely everyone who says they don't care as much as you do, sort of implies you're hooked. Just an observation.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 4/23/2011 3:08:53 PM

4 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:24:25 PM

i will admit i'm hooked. i don't know how it happened. it started out slowly with a few matches of kz3, then boom i'm at it daily, and miss it very much. don't worry i still care about the single player. thanks for letting me vent. i just hope the network is up soon. i love sony, and care about what happens to them.

3 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:41:59 PM

I know you do, and it's important to be passionate about your hobby.

But things like this can help you re-prioritize. Try playing something offline for a little while and see what it feels like, after not doing it for so long. :)

4 up, 0 down

Minishmaru
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:09:21 PM
Reply

Did you guys know you can still use Netflix even tho it bugs you about signing onto the PSN? Just open up Netflix like normal, it'll try to connect and have the psn sign on screen pop up, just try to "sign in", it'll fail but it should at this point connect to your Netflix(its possible you'll have to do it more than once, "sign in" that is) but I've been enjoying my Netflix even tho the PSN is down.

Also I downloaded everything from my queued items from Tuesdays PSN store update which I thought was weird.

I'm upset about the silence more than the fact that its down, I'm sure the xbots will be having a field day with it. :\

0 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:32:21 PM

yes, i noticed it as well. i was going to mention it but it seemed off topic. vudu still does not work, but that's ok. it is weird that netflix works becuase it's supposed to require a psn sign in. it will sometimes stop, and ask you sign in, but then continues. this is somewhat good news.

0 up, 0 down

Gamer Girl Gemo
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:36:35 PM
Reply

I'm a little sad that I'm not able to talk to my friends on PSN, but to complain and beat down Sony with requestst that They should get things free? Um, no. It's nice to see how many of them are "true gamers" when their life begins to crumble just because they can't get on PSN. I'd bet that most of these people complaining are the younger ones. If they can't go "pwn some n00bs" online, the world is at an end and so are their lives.

This also brings me to the thought of what the Internet is to practically all of us, gamer or not. If just the PSN is down, think the entire Internet itself. In this generation, we've become so entirely dependent on technological communication, that it almost makes me feel really depressed about it.

Anyway, my stance on the whole no PSN thing doesn't bother me all too much. I see it as a chance to be able to finish and single-player campaigns I haven't finished. I usually do the campaign all the way through before I ever go near multi-player. It just makes sense to me. Then again, it could possibly only make sense to those of us who were around for all the wonderful single-players in the past unhindered by today's standard of online gaming.

6 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 9:49:36 AM

Well said.

0 up, 2 down

jdt1981
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:37:06 PM
Reply

PSN is down? I didn't even notice. LOL I mainly use the PSN to DL demos and game patches, I couldn't care less about online multiplayer.

0 up, 0 down

Bugzbunny109
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:45:17 PM
Reply

PSN is necessary for playing games.Gaming has become very social for me. I prefer to be online even if I am playing the single player component of a game. I like messaging my friends and seeing what they are playing.

1 up, 0 down

shiroxkatsuya
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:50:19 PM
Reply

its not that i want to play multiplayer -i rarely do that- its just i need psn to activate my dlc for dragon age 2 =( -i just picked it up

0 up, 0 down

VIVIsectVI
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 2:51:40 PM
Reply

Playing console games online really isn't my thing, but I've needed to redeem a code for the past few days. 3 days goes from a minor annoyance into more of a problem. I'm glad I have a gaming PC right now. And Sony may want to adjust their advertising...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/4/22/it-only-doesnt/

2 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:30:52 PM

Priceless.

1 up, 2 down

Temjin001
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:59:20 PM

Funny stuff, indeed

1 up, 2 down

Snorge
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 11:14:11 AM

Perfect timing for this!!! LMAO!

0 up, 0 down

parasitic
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:02:23 PM
Reply

I believe psn has been down for more than 3 days. I guess the attack began since monday, that's a week almost so many accounts couldn't get online, but Sony officialy noticed/shut down the network 3 days ago.

To be honest I wouldn't even have noticed as I was busy with my studying and social life. But my step-dad kept moaning to me that he can't get online for a week now. I was raging about it today as I wanted a quick relaxing match on COD...

I got no offline games to play, I haven't got enough money to buy Killzone 3 yet or another game for campaign mode- although this would be a perfect time to do it. I'm not sure if I should sacrafice shopping for a game... it's a tough choice. However I see why people are upset, they might be like me and have finished all of their campaigns with only multiplayers left to entertain them. Hell, we can't even buy a cheap psn game due to the network being down.

0 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:14:53 PM

i hope your prediction is wrong. they told me 1-2 days 2 days ago. i'm in the same boat as you becuase i have all my single player games beat. this is just annoying. the longer this lasts the more damage. i hope and pray it ends soon.

1 up, 1 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 12:09:17 AM

Hmmm, here's a thought for some of you that said you already finished all your SP games.

Most games have AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT DIFFICULTY SETTING(and a few even have up to 5 settings).

So why not just try playing on different difficulty setting till the PSN comes back on-line.

At least you guys can play SP, some of us recent YLOD'ers don't have a PS3 to play on, nor the money to replace them at the moment, like myself.

Get a grip, there's more importance in life, so just deal with it till the PSN comes back(and this is coming from a non-adjusted MP whore for KZ3's Warfare & Operations modes)

0 up, 0 down

VIVIsectVI
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:10:42 PM
Reply

I also think the major thing people should be upset about here are the 2 Capcom games that require a connection to play. I think it's Bionic Commando and Final Fight: Double Impact.

For those of you that bought these 2 games, didn't you BUY them? PC DRM I understand to a point, but console DRM is ridiculous. Capcom needs to quit renting out their games and sell them.

0 up, 0 down

sonic1899
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:13:47 PM
Reply

Trophies. For some reason if I'm offline and preform an action that already resulted in earning one, I get the trophy again. Then when I check out my trophy count, it says 1%, despite getting 100%. This gets fixed after I sync with the server. ...how exactly are trophies stored anyway? :P

0 up, 0 down

shiroxkatsuya
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:19:39 PM
Reply

maybe ill pop in ff7 or something. im just disappointed i cant activate my dlc. so sometimes its not just multiplayer fans who need access to psn, we all depend on it now and again.

0 up, 0 down

Radiohead
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:22:49 PM
Reply

Wonder how the COD addicts are going through this?

0 up, 0 down

PharaohJR
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:23:47 PM
Reply

said it before & i say it again online is a luxury for gaming but in these days & times most folks cant go without there luxury.

i was thinking bout using this time to regain my achievements in GT5. completing the driving classes & others again but this is a temporary PS3 im using & the feature of saving data 2 usb isnt a option any more. currently at level 25 & i got there only doing online in week & half.

0 up, 0 down

trinichinese
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:30:28 PM
Reply

something like this shows how disk base games are important not to lose compared to digital download could u imagine how much worse thing could be if games were digital download only, example G T 5 prologue digital dwl and not the disk ,will not work unless u are log on psn as far as i know off.correct me if am wrong plus this shows us how single player is so important if game quality in single player or offline mode keep droping and we have to depend on a system of its a must have to be online multiplayer what will happen to the future of games or gameing , its sad when so many are hooked on multiplayer am not saying that u should not love multiplayer but but at times there are game that suffer from gamers playing online multiplayer all the time and not the story and there are many who never even completed a single player campane in a game any more they go stright to online , when i get a game first thing i play is the story then online better when u can play online with friends in coop games that part is the best part for haveing an online mode but none the less we all will suffer in the long run if things keep going the way they are ps for those who have not played ENSLAVED odyssey to the west should give it a try great game great story not perfect but a great game and it's that game that reminded me that a great story in a game is important .not just multiplayer

3 up, 0 down

shiroxkatsuya
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:33:52 PM
Reply

good point, now i feel bad for the guys with psp go's lol

0 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 3:49:51 PM

I had one of those. Totally worthless.

0 up, 0 down

godsdream
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:00:35 PM
Reply

You know Ben, there are few of us left out there in the world who don't like Call of Duty, don't own any of their games (of course I've played with friends and prove to myself a bunch of times that that type of games are not my type) and don't like multiplayer games. I mean, I accept the idea that games like Warhawk and MAG are pure multiplayer, but what I don't accept is that some companies are now cutting single player campaigns to fill the discs with multiplayer crap, and in top of all, they add more like to sell it to us as DLC. Little time ago David Jaffe complained about this type of industry issues and I agree with him in a 100%. He complained about how almost all of them are now cutting data out to selling it like DLC.

To finish, I also don't understand how people can't survive without multiplayer. It seems to me that almost every one of them are that kind of players who don't look for things in games, don't read or listen the story, don't do sidequests, don't search the entire maps/enviroment of the campaign. They just rush straight forward to kill everyone, explode everything and fail a lot of times because they didn't put attention to the story and don't know what to do. Seriously, no games to enjoy without multiplayer?? Don't tell me that, tell me that a dragon came to your house pointing at your back with a bow made of fire, I would believe that more than there are no games. The only thing I feel a little disappointed for, is that this sucks if you just purchased a game and can't log or try it's multiplayer part. Anyways, I don't mind because I don't like multiplayer, but it's still a good service not working right now and not treated well by Sony's spoke persons so, that's bad in the end.

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:16:32 PM

Oh, we're a dying breed all right. :(

4 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 4:19:33 PM

there could be some truth to what you are saying. i know a lot of xbox fans who only play a couple of games. cod and halo. there are exceptions though. i'm a pretty hardcore online player(kz3), but i've beaten every single player game i have. i loved ff13, fallout3, fallout new vegas, and me2. those are all single player games, and i completed all the sidequests and mark missions in the games i mentioned. i still appreciate the single player.

i didn't even notice how much of an online player i was until the service was yanked out from me by these hackers. like ben said they cuased this mess in the first place. i just hope the outage ends soon.

0 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:43:54 PM

We're not a dying breed at all, simply the minority...though I think each iteration of CoD creates a brand new segment of disenfranchised players.

Trick is finding a replacement that's more to your liking. There are plenty of alternatives out there, and a slew that actually are better.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 6:05:43 PM

If we were once the majority and have now become the minority, and there's no chance that future generations will have our gaming preferences, how are we not a dying breed?

;)

3 up, 0 down

Mornelithe
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:50:13 AM

To be honest Ben, I'm not that pessimistic about our kind. I think it's simply a matter of blissful ignorance. Really, no kidding, I think people just don't know what else is out there. For those of us who've been involved in the industry as long as we have (For both of us, I'm thinking 2 decades+...right?), we not only have prior knowledge to virtually everything that comes out, but also which developers to trust, which to adore, which to watch out for...etc, moreover, it allows us to spot the 'diamonds in the rough' if you will, without having to necessarily purchase them...simply from researching it during it's development.

The same cannot be said for the exploding ranks of 'gamers'. Unfortunately, as I alluded to in a prior thread, gaming is the new economic bubble...and every developer is intent on drawing in as many new adopters as they possibly can (noobs). They lack any and all experience 'our kind' (that's funny to put in quotes, gotta say lol) is blessed with...however, that kind of ignorance is finite. Over time, these disenfranchised individuals will come to understand all that we've been saying...and eventually join our ranks.

Of course, I've had a bunch of alcohol tonight, and maybe this is wishful thinking. But, really, it's simply a matter of learning from mistakes. Back when we started playing games, can we truly say we never bought a hunk of crap? Same thing here, people will eventually learn...

0 up, 0 down

ZettaiSeigi
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:26:28 PM
Reply

The only reason I'm quite annoyed that the PSN is down is I cannot download new stuff from the PlayStation Store. I really look forward to the Tuesday updates but wasn't able to grab them that day because I was busy with work. Other than that, it's no big deal. Most of my games are single player experiences, so I am not even upset one bit. Just annoyed, not upset.

And yes folks, it's perfect time to go back to those single player games that really focus on the story. If you have Heavy Rain and other similar games, then maybe you should play them now. You've got no excuse anymore! :)

2 up, 0 down

Victor321
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:36:18 PM
Reply

I do, I'm part of the generation you speak of Ben, and I do find it really sad that the industry more or less has captivated the world like that, for better or worse :(

3 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 12:39:02 AM

I am of that generation too, and at 58 I'm even beyond it, LOL

2 up, 0 down

eaglebaize
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:43:50 PM
Reply

I guess now is the time to remember the existence of games like Heavy Rain, Metal Gear Solid 4, and Littlebigplanet. And InFamous... and Uncharted... and Dragon Age... need I say more? I love me some MW2 multiplayer, but other video games can be quite the form of art and deserve a little love as well.

0 up, 0 down

killerbee12
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 5:44:29 PM
Reply

wow you people really eally need to open your front door and go outside,
it really seems that psn is the end of the world to you,
you can still play games you fool!

2 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 6:46:53 PM
Reply

I don't think it's that sad, this is the biggest thing happening now and we always rant on the internet in a way that makes it seem like it's the most important thing to us when it really isn't.

And this is just a horrible time for this to happen, it's not like there's nothing to play online right now but the same old same old, people are in betas and wanna try portal and steam and etc and so forth.

I'll be okay, but I do like to send messages to my PSXE friends on PSN. It's part of my gaming experience. If PSXE was down sure I could visit other sites, but why would I want to?

edit: It's sad when people get mad at Sony for this and blame them and talk sh*t.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/23/2011 6:48:15 PM

3 up, 0 down

kraygen
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:19:40 PM

agreed, it's not like sony wanted this to happen. I'm sure they're not sitting around just hoping it fixes itself.

0 up, 0 down

main_event05
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 6:48:10 PM
Reply

I had a job interview today. after that i logged another 7 hours in DA:O. all w/o the PSN.

2 up, 0 down

godsdream
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 7:40:56 PM
Reply

That is right Ben, we are like that black chocobo in ff7. A questionable/almost-myth rare and extinguishing breed, who enjoy just certain type of gaming. We need more RPG games and first class action games like GoW and Uncharted series, Heavy Rain, iNfamous and others. The good thing is that Dark Souls, is coming, so that can calm at least me.

0 up, 0 down

The X Factor 9
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 7:44:18 PM
Reply

All I want is for Sony to reimburse me for lost time in DC Universe Online.

0 up, 3 down

sohio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 7:59:01 PM
Reply

Ben, based off some of your comments on here it seems that you just basically have a problem with online being so big, maybe thinking that it will cause an eventual end to single player games. While I doubt that would ever happen, let me ask you and all the other SP fans this:

If on the day Skyrim was released, you went to install it and got a message telling you something went terribly wrong and it wouldn't work, how upset would you be? (I'd feel worse than I do now!) Now, imagine waiting days on end and getting almost no info from Sony as to when you can play it. You've got your whole weekend mapped out, munchies in hand, and now you're forced to just sit on your hands.
Video games are the primary hobby of millions of people and unfortunately this stigma of us being geeks who sit in our basement with no lives will never seem to stop.
Some people fish, some like to work with wood, some like to garden, work on cars, ect and if those people couldn't do those things, everyone would relate and feel for them. Us? "Get a life"
Ben, you're one of my favorite writers on any site when it comes to the PS, as a matter of fact I always come here first for info on things because of your writing and the (usually) classy people on here. Keep up the good work.

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:06:37 PM

Thanks for the compliment. I just think you're being too sensitive, that's all.

You don't want me to answer that question, because it would sort of disprove your point. I really wouldn't care much, and it's not because of the game example. You could use Uncharted 3 as an example in your situation and yeah, I'd be a little annoyed, but I would NEVER respond the way I've seen people respond to this PSN issue in various forums and communities online.

I'm sorry, but stigmas aside, we are talking about a hobby here. Nothing more. And as passionate as I and others are about it, we'd never react that way. There are other things in life. I think those types of reactions are exactly why we can't shed the negative stereotypes.

I will also add that single-player fans won't react that way because multiplayer has more of a psychological hold on the multi fans. Like I said, it has an addictive quality I've never seen before in anything based around solitary gaming.

4 up, 0 down

sohio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:16:22 PM
Reply

You are most definitely right, it is very addictive. The absolute thrill of human competition brings out an adrenaline rush that I just don't get from single player games.

Maybe a break should be in order. 700 hours on KZ 2, people tell me, is borderline psychotic, lol.

1 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:57:25 PM

Well, yeah, that's...high. :)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 4/23/2011 9:54:53 PM

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:14:18 AM

I've been gaming for about 4 decades now & as a gaming collector, I own 35 systems/hand-held's with 2,072 games(and still counting), but I have never ever had the desire to try out any on-line or beta's.

But that was until KZ3's MP beta came out....

And you know what?
I got so hooked on it that I bought the Helghast Edition on day 1 & and put 66 hours into it within only 2 weeks, gaining Brigade General with 685,625 XP.

But that's where the story of my budding MP addiction abruptly ended because around 11 hours into my last KZ2 marathon session, my PS3 suddenly kicked me off-line & red lighted with my disc still stuck inside.

*sigh*

But, I'll still take my games in SP mode over MP anytime.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 4/24/2011 1:22:00 AM

1 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Monday, April 25, 2011 @ 8:22:32 AM

@BikerSaint

HOLY MOTHER*********************

You show true dedecation to killzone 3 multiplyer.

0 up, 0 down

xnonsuchx
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:31:48 PM
Reply

I mainly use it to check for new demos/videos every Tue night when I get home from work, so being offline for a few to several days doesn't matter to me much.

Odd, though, that the hackers seem to think they're doing all owners a favor by teaching Sony a lesson and all they're really doing is alienating most of the owners who have supported the PS3 hacking community.

0 up, 0 down

trinichinese
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 8:56:48 PM
Reply

lets hope all goes well and it's for the better and sony fix the problem, u know the funny thing doe is if sony does a statistic on members online and how psn and online affects us in our daily lives this is the time to do it .

1 up, 0 down

trinichinese
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:05:38 PM
Reply

you know what Ben if a ZOMBIE infestation took place,right now people will still complane. look on the bright side of things we all got to spend more time on psxextreme

0 up, 0 down

Ichigo40
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:11:09 PM
Reply

Yeah i have to agree with you on this one Ben...some people need to remember what Sony has to offer in the offline video game department. I can honestly say that I have a life outside of gaming but at the same time I am also true diehard gamer and this outage hasn't bugged me one bit. I play plenty games online but I also play them offline and these past few days I was able to start on Mass Effect 2 (for the first time I might add...pretty awesome so far) and also enjoyed playing both Mortal Kombat and Portal 2 with my buddies in person...

1 up, 0 down

sohio
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:19:58 PM
Reply

Just imagine if Facebook had gone down for this amount of time.

0 up, 0 down

kraygen
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 9:21:31 PM
Reply

Honestly this psn thing has barely effected me. I have my rpgs to keep me busy and I can still use netflix.

Ben there is one apparent good thing to come of this psn fiasco.

Looking at all the comments, I think psx might have more traffic this week than ever. lol

0 up, 0 down

mid10smaradoarg
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 10:25:37 PM
Reply

MAG is online only

0 up, 4 down

Clamedeus
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:13:35 PM

I'm sure people know.

3 up, 1 down

AnonWTF
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:37:53 PM
Reply

Out of all your articles I think I agree with you on this one the most.

0 up, 0 down

hehateme
Saturday, April 23, 2011 @ 11:56:07 PM
Reply

man i was gonna put some serious time into some online trophies for uncharted 2 and kz3.... and that its on alot of peoples spring break does not help at all

0 up, 0 down

TurbulentHumans
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 12:39:15 AM
Reply

Ben, what are your thoughts on digital rights management that require an internet connection, or at least a connection to an external software or program that some developers and publishers require for access to their videogame or videogames. Ubisoft requires owners of Assassin's Creed 2 be connected to the internet to play a game with a lengthy (so I've read, haven't played it) single player story. The DRM glitched and left gamers with a game they were locked out of, despite having bought it through legal means. Capcom has done this with two of their games on the PSN, I believe Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 and another game whose name escapes me. Are you for, against, or in the middle regarding DRM right now?

0 up, 0 down

Qubex
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:23:13 AM
Reply

PSN and online play in general have become an addiction in my opinion... It is great to have a good few matches with friends and family online, but it should not be the end of the world if you can't.

I have done enough browsing this weekend, scouring the other forums... wow, talk about the small minds of people... their lives revolve around online play; they can't function without it. They must be seriously lacking in social skills, be as white as ivory, and wear dark shades in the house... with a few sprouts across their face to top it off...

There is a world out their you know... I do understand this week is a special week for many a gamer, with the aforementioned releases... but c'mon... it can't be that bad without PSN for a little while.

I agree with Ben whole heartedly... the single player experience ultimately is more important than multi-player... I feel that the single player experience "binds" the whole game and package together. It also puts the multi-player in context... you can enjoy it more to some extent if the game has a decent story to back it up...

Of course, multi-player works on multiple levels and is better for some game categories than others. Car racing games for one. Hot Pursuit and GT prove though that even single player car games can have a decent story/event structure to take you through a fulfilling career of sorts - as long as it doesn't become a long winded and boring affair. Nothing wrong with firing up the multi-player for some races with friends and foes alike...

Ultimately, a decent single player campaign, story or career mode, is what makes the package complete...

Without it, there is something missing. I always felt there was something missing from WarHawk for example... you need something to tie in and bind that game come product, and put the environments and characters you play in an understandable and enjoyable context.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 4/24/2011 1:30:42 AM

0 up, 0 down

Sol
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 2:34:01 AM
Reply

I consider myself a gamer of impeccable quality. I've been using this downtime and the time before it to work on my accessory trophy in XIII. If I was working on my BShock Rank 40, I might have been a little upset, but after dealing with Sigma 2 Ultimate Missions (still not done) I went back to my single-player roots. Just recently I found a copy (granted it was used) of both Gungrave Overdose and Onimusha: Blade Warriors. Now I've two more complete PS2 series. Despite PSN being down, I'm happy.

1 up, 0 down

___________
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 3:27:14 AM
Reply

thats exactly whats wrong with the industry today.
tis why were seeing 5 hour campaigns, because gamers are showing developers they only care about MP so what the f*ck are they suppose to do?
soon will have online games only!
i only want PSN back so i can get the content i paid for with my + subscription, and so i can download the portal 2 DLC once it releases.
and the DNF demo is suppose to be out soon, if PSNs still down then ill go ape sh*t!

2 up, 1 down

Qubex
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 8:38:44 AM

Yes, you are right... to much emphasis on multi-player is actually degrading the single player experience. Ben was masterful in bringing up this topic. It rings so true in a rapidly changing gaming environment.

I do hope the single player gaming component does not die a sad and slow death :(

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

0 up, 0 down

___________
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 9:21:59 AM

i dont think it ever will, because theres still devs out there who believe delivering a high quality story is the most important thing in a game.
as long as those developers still live, then we should be ok.
but its going to get rarer and rarer.
i dont mind games having MP as long as the SP campaign is still really good.
look at uncharted 2, one of the most highly regarded games, added a really cool MP mode for the first time, and still did not loose the quality of the campaign.
as long as games follow that blueprint, and not ACBs then we should be fine.
i just wish developers would stop changing there games!
SOCOMs turned into a more action oriented game.
dead space has turned into a more action oriented game.
resident evil has turned into a more action oriented game.
its come to the point where if you removed the title, and removed the characters, you would not know the games from the series it is.
remove chris and wesker from RE5, and i could swear its not a resident evil game!
if you want italian food do you A go to a italian restaurant, or B go to a chinese restaurant and order pasta?
whos going to do the better dish?
games are the same!
if i want a action shooter, ill go buy a action shooter!
if i want a survival horror game, ill go buy a survival horror game!
greediness is whats destroying companies this gen, look at crapcom, $E, sega, there changing there series to try garner more sales but in doing so there pushing away there fans.
as the saying goes, youll catch more bees with honey then with vinegar!

1 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:52:19 PM

for once you actually speak the truth.

0 up, 0 down

th3_bLy
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 4:07:13 AM
Reply

The outage only bothers me because I can't play with my friends. Granted, we could easily just go out and catch a movie or something, but after working for most of the week I'd rather just stay home and fall asleep on the couch after playing some online.

0 up, 0 down

firehahahahaha
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 6:21:48 AM
Reply

I can't play any Dl'd games right now without it :(.

0 up, 0 down

JackC8
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 8:57:27 AM
Reply

It normally wouldn't be such a big deal for me, but I was right in the middle of a marathon trophy boosting session with some friends when this happened, so now we're stuck. I'm also playing a racing game that allows me to try to beat the best lap times of my friends, which is a big part of the enjoyment of the game. Of course that's gone now, with no network.

Personally I don't have a problem with Sony's response - they've been giving us daily updates on the Playstation Blog. They say they're working 24 hours a day to correct the problem and install better security so this doesn't happen again. That's a fairly satisfactory response in my opinion. I'm sure if they knew exactly how long it would take, they would tell us.

As far as saying that people who complain about the PSN being down are throwing "temper tantrums", that's just the sort of belligerent, argumentative writing that made me quit visiting this site quite a while ago.

2 up, 0 down

PS3_Mom
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 9:01:45 AM
Reply

Unfortunately, my PS3 IS broken. I have been waiting for a new laser to come in. So I can't play any disks right now. All I had was downloaded games and demos. And I just got the Infamous 2 beta. How much Diner Dash can one person play? Now my new laser finally came in and my PS3 should be back up to speed tomorrow! Then I won't cry about PSN anymore. This morning my 12 year old son said "Maybe on this Easter day the Playstation will be reborn." I can only hope.

4 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:55:34 AM
Reply

Lmao one of my friends wrote he bought a new ps3 and it still didn't work!

LMAO like that would fix it learnt o read!!!!!!!!!!!

1 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:57:53 AM
Reply

My PS3 getting YLOD'ed was an eye-opener for me. I realized I didn't need it for my daily. It was there for leisure yes but I can live fine even without. Now, it's close again to breaking down (when I play KZ3, the fans spin like crazy similiar when I played GT5 before my 1st YLOD-- maybe that's one downside of exclusives: they utilize too much of the system and demanding more of the system's overall capacity). But am I worried? No. My next gadget purchases would be a BlackBerry phone as my old Samsung winmo phone has gotten slow as heck, and will probably get Galaxy TAB 8.9 for my touch needs as well as techno functional needs (excels, applications etc).

Oh, and I believe I've been off PSN for more than a month now. My last MP days were spent on MAG. I will get another PS3 in the coming months, but it's not high on my list. And when I do, I will fire up my phat old boy again for the last time and back-up everything (it still runs, hasn't YLOD'ed yet but I know its getting there)

Me being non-PS3 holic won't prevent me from going here though. I like to be updated. Perhaps the only game I'm very very stoked is Uncharted 3.

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:39:56 PM

spiderboi,

Yeah, that fan running off & on on high speed a lot was the 1st sign that my 60 Gigger was going to die & go into "red blinking mode".

Unfortunetly for me, I'm hard pressed playing on my Bot-box until I can afford another 60 Gigger & a new slim just as a back-up.

0 up, 0 down

wano
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:45:01 PM

hoover vents well, then quick short blasts of canned air in the back of ps3 (where you can see the heat sink) to disturb more dust from the fan / heat sink (also with can held up right so no vapour comes out of nosle) then rehover vents, maybe try repeating the process a couple of times (you will be supprised at how much dust comes out even after the initial hovering of the vents) ..

I did this when my ps3 sounded like a jet engine (it would increase the fan spead like 6 times in the first 45 seconds when it started up, and found it really hard to watch films etc, especially at night as you had to turn volume right up on tv to hear anything)

mines been sweet for a month or two now since doing this, and i never had to open the thing up (which i dont like the idear of, no matter how well documented it seems to be on youtube).

60gb UK launch model, stood upright in clean room on laminate wood flooring.

Ive also heard that putting the ps3 flat on a aluminium / hollow box (both ends open) of some sort (basically raised off the floor) will help drematically, but havent tried this yet.

0 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:17:09 PM

@BikerSaint--yeah, its now running on borrowed time, so next boot will be its back-up and demise.. (-.-')

@Wano--After the first YLOD, its been clean as a whistle. And i havent played it much since the,: i put it in double plastic bags and packed some moisture absorber packs in there. Its just dying... :(

0 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 10:58:23 PM

Yeah sucks eh?

First thing people don't know is open their system up and get clean up the dust and get new thermal paste on it. It's one of the most common reasons why they fail since the older thermal paste gets hard and dry after 2 years of hardcore gaming.

Now what you should do is:

1. Sell it on ebay say it hasen't been opened or fixed yet I'm sure you will get lots of money for it still. Since using various repairing methods people can get that thing back to even new state.

2. Fix it by reflow: Probably the easiest way to go and you can get your ps3 back up and running so you can play again. Make sure to do it right way to get 1-3 months max out of your system.

3. BEST OPTION: REBALL: It's another way to get it fixed but most expensive. Gotta have expensive equipment for it, so send this one to a repair shop. You should be spending around $120-$200 depending how you do this but best repair since it will replace the old solder with better lead solder then the old lead-free. Do some research on this before going at it. Time of life is around 6 months to 2 years. Make sure to clean your system every 6 months.

0 up, 0 down

Robochic
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 1:15:56 PM
Reply

Great article Ben, Ihaven't noticed it down until early this morning due to just moving into a new house so we just got internet a few days ago LOL.
Anywase noticed it was down and was like Meh I play more offline I enjoy it more but I believe Sony is wanting it fixed just as much as the whole world we just need to be patient.

2 up, 0 down

Deathb4Dishonor
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 6:17:26 PM
Reply

To be honest it doesn't matter to me... Now it gives me a chance to catch up on some of the dozen games i haven't started yet... Everyone else should do the same, a lot of games campaign is the bread and butter of gaming and ppl miss out on them b/c they jump str8 to the multiplayer with no intentions of doing the campaign

2 up, 0 down

gangan19
Sunday, April 24, 2011 @ 8:18:35 PM
Reply

I wonder what the developers are thinking?

1 up, 0 down

Lairfan
Monday, April 25, 2011 @ 6:41:19 PM
Reply

The only reason this pisses me off is because I can't DL the inFamous 2 beta now (I just got the code a couple days ago). I would have been fine with just playing Portal 2 and Mortal Kombat till the network came back up if it wasn't for that.

0 up, 0 down

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