Bin Laden's Effect On Video Games
See Full ImageI was sort of zoning on the couch watching the Mets/Phillies game, when the breaking news came in that Osama Bin Laden had been killed. Then I watched as the news swept the stadium and chants of "U-S-A, U-S-A" erupted. This was followed by President Obama's address, which placed official closure on the infamous terrorist's death at the hands of U.S. special forces and CIA operatives.
And although it certainly seems trivial in the larger scope of reality, I started to look back at the past ten years since 9/11, and see how Bin Laden's fatal order impacted absolutely everything in this country...and that includes video games. While the effect is more subtle, it's still evident and intriguing. Perhaps above all else, gaming came under a bigger microscope as Americans became much more sensitive to particular matters. You may recall the Six Days in Fallujah project (eventually dropped by Konami), which raised the ire of many, despite featuring a staff with willing American service members.
But there were other rumors before that about potential video games centering on the war on terror, and one of the most popular launched just last year. Medal of Honor turned out to be a quality shooter based on the War on Terror, but the game was surrounded by controversy. The first was the outcry involving multiplayer, where before the game released, the Taliban would've been one of the sides; that would mean players would have to assume the role of the Taliban (i.e., the "bad guys") when playing competitively online. EA dropped the name before the title hit store shelves. But in general, Danger Close's project remained embroiled in controversy.
But perhaps the most interesting impact Bin Laden and Al Qaeda had on this industry happened behind the scenes. How many designers had to consider what might be deemed "inappropriate" when brainstorming a shooter, especially military in nature? Or on the flip side - and this is even more interesting - how did developers embrace our new-found solidarity as a nation? As Obama said last night, the country banded together and turned our attention to that which matters most after 9/11, and the term "hero" took on a whole new dimension. We always play as heroes in our interactive adventures. But the definition of "hero" has changed in the past decade, and I think that has been seen (in some respects) in games.
Terrorism was (and is) very real. Walking through the airport and gunning down innocents in Modern Warfare 2 was uncomfortable for a reason that hits very close to home. It's more important than ever to carefully distinguish between fiction and reality and as gaming becomes closer to photo-realism and virtual reality with every passing day, it's crucial that we remember who we are, and where "the line" might be. Perhaps that is Bin Laden's single biggest impact on video games: we'll always be looking for that line with the aforementioned microscope, and every last developer and publisher will have to understand that. Gamers have to understand it, too.
Tags: osama bin laden, video games, gaming industry, 9/11
5/2/2011 11:53:11 AM Ben Dutka
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Comments (164 posts)
NoSmokingBandit
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:20:09 PM
9 up, 0 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:20:11 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:41:03 PM
22 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:07:51 PM
5 up, 0 down
kraygen
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:12:07 PM
=)
7 up, 3 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:43:36 PM
Yeah especially boring because their digusting heathens who practice a pagan religion and pray to the wrong god AND sometimes have multiple wives AND don't dress the same as Americans....man oh man...0-5 eh Jawk?
4 up, 11 down
Lawless SXE
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:02:31 PM
10 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:05:30 PM
Last edited by Jawknee on 5/2/2011 2:08:20 PM
7 up, 5 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:08:20 PM
And because World brought up Ifrit, I think we need to have a moment of silence for what Final Fantasy used to be.
Last edited by main_event05 on 5/2/2011 5:14:01 PM
6 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:21:33 PM
If you look at N_C's profile, it becomes very apparent that he's just out to harass Jawknee.
Just look at what he's put down as his location, why else would he write in..... Jawknee's house???
7 up, 1 down
YashaZz
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 1:54:01 AM
Anyway, a middle-eastern set RPG... very hard to imagine.
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:22:12 PM
Reply
A well written piece Ben, I know that we all walk a fine line in our hobby of choice and as I wrote recently (http://www.titanreviews.com/#/la-noire-good-guy/4550964364)I hope L.A. Noire brings back our love of the benevolent hero opposed to the human weapon or criminal.
It feels weird to be happy over the death of a person, but patriotism and want of vengeance are powerful things; things which I'm sure we will continue to explore through the medium of video games.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/2/2011 12:23:28 PM
5 up, 1 down
Highlander
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:34:45 PM
I'll not name names, but I know of individuals from history (even in the last two centuries) who I would have been happy to see the end of.
4 up, 2 down
frostface
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:42:25 PM
I respect that this is a predominately US site with predominately US members, so I don't want to out-right disrespect the community, by sharing my in some ways opposing views of the last few hours, since the Obama announcement.
All I'll ask is, were's the justice when your men and women are still fighting and dying in a war they went into under false pretenses? Where is the justice for all the families of the people of Iraq, Afghanistan that have borne the brunt of the US led occupation? I have a whole bunch of other questions which out of respect I won't put to you guys.
But I do believe this 'justice' and celebration of the death of one man, who no doubt now will be idolized by his followers (and there are no shortage of them), is a premature celebration.
Maybe you should hold off until your loved ones are back on US soil. That'll be a day for celebrating don't ya think?
Last edited by frostface on 5/2/2011 12:43:48 PM
20 up, 8 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:14:09 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the f*cker is eating dinner with Hitler, but we should always keep an eye on what we stand for and our moral justifications, lest we descend into the realm where that dead man now occupies either in the hereafter or in history.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/2/2011 1:14:34 PM
5 up, 1 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:15:13 PM
I also have three family members in region as we speak. One is in Afghanistan, the other is in Iraq, and one is in Turkey. I have yet to speak with them since OBL has been dead, but I I am sure there is a sense of accomplishment.
Maybe you should hold off on making judgmental statements such as the one you posted!! From where I stand, you have already insulted me, my family, and every one out there serving this country!
How do you think the families of the 3000 people who lost a loved one think? I bet they are happy. I know that two wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes sitting around and discussing things in a "civilized" manner won't get you anywhere.
If it takes a bullet to the brain of one terrorist to show America's resolve. So be it.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 5/2/2011 1:18:27 PM
9 up, 5 down
Highlander
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:18:45 PM
And now I shall end my moralizing rant. All I really want to get across is that we should be better than we are, and we must not become that which we hate.
5 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:42:54 PM
1 up, 0 down
frostface
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:47:30 PM
Should I go to the bother of explaining it more clearly for you, draw out a debate which I don't feel is warranted on a gaming website because of my inability to convey were I was initially coming from?
I don't want to be part of a society that celebrates the death of anyone. I also wouldn't want to see my loved ones fighting a war not knowing if they'll ever make it back home alive or in one piece. I also don't see were it's worth celebrating one man's death with a war still ongoing. Too many people on both sides of the fence dying and I'm sure my disrespectful words aren't all as disrespectful as you think if you yourself were in the fight.
@world I think it was me insulted him, not intentionally I would like to emphasis.
Last edited by frostface on 5/2/2011 1:49:50 PM
7 up, 1 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:55:42 PM
I got called out on my comment for saying I wept for his soul. But let me explain what I mean...
What sort of life would have led a person to get to the point where he did all the terrible things he did?
I find the whole thing tragic. With all his abilities and charisma, he could have been so much more. Yet, for whatever reason, he revelled in committing atrocities that led to people celebrating his death.
Why couldn't he have been a good leader? What made him act and lead the way he did? What caused him to justify his acts?
I find the whole story tragic. When you think of it that way, it is a little sad. It's not like he was a murderer from birth. Something happened. I don't know what. But something. And the long story that led him to having his death celebrated is likely a sad and tragic one that, I for one, wish had been different for so many people's sakes.
The saddest part of all is that he probably died thinking he was a hero. He likely never realized how wrong he was. He likely never had the chance to understand how wrong and evil he had behaved.
That is why I weap. It suggests that not everyone can be redeemed... That there is a point of no return. And that is depressing.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2011 1:57:43 PM
10 up, 3 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:27:58 PM
Not forgiving those atrocities doesn't hurt Osama or his followers. It, in fact, makes our ability to move on more difficult.
Don't give them the satisfaction of owning your grudges. Holding onto hatred means he owns you from the grave. I hope the US is able to become larger people, stop celebrating deaths, and learn how to move on as stronger people. (which I KNOW you will, but still... it's a hope I have for you guys)
6 up, 5 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:01:36 PM
Frostface -
I understood your post and where you were coming from, but seriously, what did you expect? You mention that I should hold my excitement on this issue and I don't understand that viewpoint one bit. I see this as one more step taken in the right direction to bringing our military home. Plus, everyone of my cousins is over there out of choice. The two in Iraq and Afghanistan re-upped when their service expired. Why do you think that is?
Believe me, our family cried and had many sleepless nights when they were deployed into a combat zone for the first time. However, when the 2nd, 3rd, etc. time came around things were much easier because of our understanding on why they were doing this and why it had to be done. Even if there is a grey line on whether it's right or wrong really isn't the point. Why? These men and women deserve our unwavering support.
Brother, just because I am not personally carrying an M4 and eating MRE's does that make me any less involved in "the fight". Having loved ones abroad is a battle and sacrifice all in itself. There isn't day that goes by that I am not on my knees praying for them. There isn't a month that goes by in which letters and care packages aren't sent.
Statements just like the one you posted frustrate me, and I will apologize for any brash behavior on my part. In the mean time, you'll have to forgive me if I get excited (and proud) over the death of a maniacal and sick terrorist who contributed to altering the lives of countless thousands!!
Last edited by maxpontiac on 5/2/2011 3:03:48 PM
8 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:13:04 PM
Bin Laden is, essentially, evil. He has no purpose on this earth; his only purpose has been to hurt other people at the adolescent glorification of his own misguided ego. His life is pointless and worse, counterproductive to the good of humanity.
Killing him doesn't erase problems or pain. But it sure as hell doesn't mean we've lost anything of value, either.
12 up, 3 down
frostface
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:17:16 PM
@Ben, would the world be a better place without him? Probably, until the next guy takes his place. I myself personally won't miss him. But I can't find joy in the death of another person. That things got so bad that people are happy that he's dead like Underdog said, reflects on just how bad things must of gotten. 9/11 was terrible, the resulting War on Terror is terrible. If one man's death makes all that pain go away, rejoice! But I'll refrain from showing my excitement until I've seen no retaliation for his death, all your troops sent home safely and the people of Iraq/Afghanistan able to rebuild their country.
I guess when it's not my country that has been directly attacked and my troops fighting the battle, I just see things differently. I'm walking a fine line with being offensive again but we just have a different perspective here on this side of the pond. I'm gonna leave this topic now so as not to cause offense.
Last edited by frostface on 5/2/2011 3:31:41 PM
7 up, 2 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:18:01 PM
5 up, 3 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:26:07 PM
Based on how many people I know in my country, and the many relatives of me and my wife in Europe, I'd have to say that Frostface hasn't over-complicated things. What he says is VERY dominately the opinion of the world outside the US across many many countries.
Now, I have many US friends, and I do share, to some extent, the appreciation of the events that have transpired. I really do. But I definitely saw no insult in Frostface's post. Certainly no insult that was intended. But even if it doesn't seem "fair" to many American's, it's what a majority of the world thinks. Especially when they also believe American's only get sad about their own tragedies and no one elses. (I -KNOW- that's not true, but again... it's the dominating opinion of the world. The truth is somewhere in the middle, I think.)
8 up, 6 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:30:00 PM
A guy who slaughters people for essentially no reason is dead. Life is just too short to over-think that. Good effing riddance.
13 up, 6 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:49:38 PM
But you're right. It is good he's finished. I, for one, wouldn't celebrate until the war is over, though.
11 up, 2 down
BikerSaint
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:34:15 PM
I think I'll go watch "I spit on your(watery) grave" just to celebrate!
BTW, let the date of 4/30 always be a celebration, since both, hitler's & bin laden's(lack of)souls, were snuffed out on the very exact same day in 1945 & 2011.
6 up, 0 down
tes37
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:39:17 PM
Good riddance to all who practice hatred and claim they are doing a service to God.
5 up, 1 down
Shams
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 6:47:58 PM
"...to murder one innocent is as if one has murdered the whole of humankind, and to save one innocent is as if one has saved the whole of humankind"... Qur'an, Surah Maidah.
"Consumption of the unlawful, adultery, usury, murder, oppression (stealing the right of anyone and any kind be it human, animal, plant), [etc...].. all of these are counted amongst the greatest sins because they kill the soul (even if the body is left unharmed)." -Muhammed
"When God in the Qu'ran refers to those who have taken their leaders/priests/rabbis as their lords, he does not mean if they commanded them to bow down, that they would bow down. He means that their leaders have made right out of wrong and wrong out of right, and they have accepted this, so they have unknowingly taken them as their lords (beside God), which is the greatest "shirk"/polytheisism/rejection." -Muhammed
"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." -Osama bin Laden
Seems to me Osama tried to justify murder of innocents, where as Muhammed and the Qur'an plainly said two wrongs can't make a right. Also seems to me that most of mankind adheres to the basic tenants of the Qur'an unknowingly better than OSB, as he disobeyed it knowingly.
2 up, 3 down
Shams
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 7:31:23 PM
1 up, 2 down
tes37
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 8:34:31 PM
I will say, however, you have never been uncivil to me.
1 up, 0 down
Shams
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 10:32:54 PM
I have presented the side showing that which you refer to as "Muslims" are not Muslims, and that which you refer to as the "Qur'an" is not the Qur'an.
You claim to know who "Muslims" are, but the one Muslim who bothers to open a dialogue, you ignore. So be it. I have done my part. If you have any questions for me, then feel free to ask. If not, then please try to avoid making lambasting generalizations.
2 up, 3 down
YashaZz
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:00:13 AM
Killing Osama Bin-Laden won't make the Al-Qaeda disappear but merely set them back from their plans. In the near future they will have a new leader or a new plan for future attacks. Who knows?
I don't think any of us can answer that question, all we can do is guess.
But in my humble opinion (hey, don't take it to offence) I stopped believing the American government a long time ago because I really don't know what is truth and what is not.
2 up, 0 down
Qubex
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:23:08 AM
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
1 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 8:07:09 AM
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
-- Martin Luther King, Jr
5 up, 1 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:23:32 PM
Reply
6 up, 3 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:35:01 PM
Mystery. No really I was just being a turd and trying to provoke a response from you on the earlier comments, nothing more nothing less. I don't actually support the child virgin fond murder supporter. Lol.
1 up, 4 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:47:46 PM
5 up, 8 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:04:34 PM
Oh come now Jawk, let's not walk this tight rope where you pretend to be the moral compass, you know its a load of caca, I won't even go into it any further than that.
5 up, 3 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:05:06 PM
While I'm at it, actually Mao is worse than Hitler.
3 up, 3 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:07:57 PM
6 up, 6 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:20:07 PM
4 up, 1 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:39:08 PM
Weeelllllllllllll, I'd say it's about equal. In direct appearnce based soley on avatars, it appears i'm an avid communist supporter (until I changed it to G.W.) and it appears your a southpark character with the propensity to play the part of America's best example of a school text book founding father ideologist.
1 up, 4 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:46:29 PM
Thomas Paine was close to socialist. LOL.
0 up, 4 down
mk ultra
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:24:17 PM
Reply
I just want the network back up so I can play Socom and pretend to be the Navy Seals who took him out.
1 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:31:05 PM
Reply
6 up, 3 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:36:51 PM
1 up, 5 down
Excelsior1
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:37:16 PM
Reply
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 5/2/2011 12:42:40 PM
12 up, 7 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:39:48 PM
2 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:44:34 PM
Made possible by the intel we gathered at the prison he wanted to shut down.
12 up, 15 down
Excelsior1
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:56:50 PM
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 5/2/2011 1:00:31 PM
6 up, 6 down
kraygen
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:19:23 PM
So technically this wouldn't have happened if he had got what he wanted. In the end though he lied, and will now take credit for something he probably knew nothing about. At least not until we did.
7 up, 12 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:24:27 PM
But that's it.
I only wonder what would be happening right now if GW Bush was the President when this happened.
6 up, 6 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:36:18 PM
Wrong, Special operations and "black ops," can be utilized without the president and do not have to have major millitary forces in the country of the planned attack/operation. Their budgets are also classified outside of the Senate armed forces comittee, tax payers are not able to see how much of their money goes into the programs.
3 up, 3 down
CrusaderForever
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:42:07 PM
Reply
I would have to say the Middle East is a never ending hot spot for terror. No such end to this video game setting will arise from this. If anything it will intensify.
4 up, 0 down
PharaohJR
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:19:01 PM
in history & even present it shows whenever a conflict is resolved with violence vengance or revenge it does nothing but escalade. these peeps that followed this wicked man are willing to put bombs not smoke bombs or any other type of non serious bombs im talking bout a weapon that can make your body vanish they strap up with these & with no thought or feeling they take peoples life just to make a statement. i pray that mankind at this time will be humble about this situation on both ends cause if they followers of terror act up things will get hectic.
3 up, 0 down
YashaZz
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:02:45 AM
0 up, 0 down
marcusfrommo
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:42:44 PM
Reply
11 up, 10 down
Highlander
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:44:36 PM
10 up, 7 down
coverton341
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:54:03 PM
7 up, 4 down
MyWorstNightmar
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:58:04 PM
I think the real credit goes to the men and women who actually had to deliver what the country demanded. It was a tough task, 10 years in the making. It's sad that so many had to die in that pursuit, but it had to be done.
15 up, 0 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:09:28 PM
Would you just leave it alone for God's sake? I mean for one bloody second can you take the second to think...this is just about the effect on video games not about which president or political party is to blame for a world in which the president is a figurehead to a much deeper game played by those with the deepest pockets? You'd rather have us all sit here and mindlessly lap up your tainted milk and tune into conservative talk radio or maybe rally with Beck in D.C. or god knows what, NOT EVERYONE AGREES nor should they have to in the first place, ITS A SITE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES STOP WITH THE POLITICS, PLEASE! ! ! ! (that is part of the reason I have my mao avatar, I can't stand your rederic about politics.).
9 up, 9 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:12:47 PM
Last edited by Jawknee on 5/2/2011 1:15:35 PM
9 up, 8 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:14:03 PM
Are you a politician or something? Don't even sit there and pretend your so offended.
6 up, 5 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:15:58 PM
6 up, 6 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:18:01 PM
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/2/2011 1:23:19 PM
8 up, 5 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:23:13 PM
Oh you mean the special forces mission that just occured play for play out of Clinton's late 90's attempt to assasinate Bin Laden via Spec ops and CIA teams ROPING IN BY HELICOPTER, that he couldn't execute because of lack of cooperation in the CIA at the time and an impending election year (2000)? Right, the credit goes to Gee Dub himself for a succesful tactical operations developed over a decade ago by Clinton and his millitary advisors....... HAHAHAH HAHHAHA HAHAH ! ! ! ! !! (to say the least)
4 up, 5 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:26:47 PM
Yours included.
8 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:30:15 PM
3 up, 7 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:44:22 PM
I really am done, I've said what I needed to say, I'm ready to talk games.
3 up, 1 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:51:51 PM
4 up, 4 down
The Doom
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 10:10:01 AM
Last edited by The Doom on 5/3/2011 10:10:30 AM
3 up, 0 down
Cole
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:11:26 PM
Reply
I haven't really thought of the effect that this had on video games.. I am aware of a number of films that had to be edited though.. since they contained scenes that may have been considered inappropriate after 9/11.
Shooters have always been my least favourite gaming genre. Most games revolve around killing, but your adversaries aren't normally human. In shooters however you're not only killing people, but normally they are just regular soldiers/gaurds.. who are just doing their jobs. Even if it is just a fictional setup, the idea just doesn't sit well with me.
This point was specifically addressed in Uncharted 2 when Drake and Flynne are robbing that museum..
The only notable exception is the Metal Gear Solid series, which gives you the option to use non lethal means to take out your opponents.( Something that I always choose to do, because it helps to ease my consciense and you're less likely to cause an alert this way.)
2 up, 2 down
Highlander
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:21:51 PM
5 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:38:26 PM
5 up, 1 down
Cole
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:21:21 PM
@Highlander. That's what I meant. Most other games would have you killing a bunch of innocent gaurds in that situation.. Uncharted 2 is one of the few examples where the protagonist refuses to do so..
But that's also the only instance where you are given the option to use non lethal means. At the end of the game Lazaravic makes reference to this when he asks Drake how many people he's killed. And goes on to say that they are one and the same... Nate doesn't deny it, because he knows it's true.
This is one of the reasons why Drake is one of my favourite characters. He's done bad things, but is a good person at heart and takes responsibility for his actions.
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:19:18 PM
Hmmm...complicated.
Last edited by Highlander on 5/2/2011 3:19:44 PM
2 up, 1 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:24:12 PM
7 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:20:33 PM
Reply
11 up, 0 down
kraygen
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:28:23 PM
On the bright side, even though people are arguing over the politics of it, you can say that regardless of belief, at least they are passionate about their country.
You and me tend to agree on games world, but I don't think we'd agree in politics, but I'm ok with that.
4 up, 1 down
N_C
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:28:45 PM
3 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:29:05 PM
4 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:49:16 PM
5 up, 0 down
jimmyhandsome
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:43:23 PM
People should also try to refrain from viewing this a "celebration of someone dying". Osama bin Laden represented so many different things to so many people. For those of you who lost loved ones on 9-11 or during the war, this is somewhat of a closure for them. And for the troops that are still overseas, this gives somewhat of a purpose for their fight. This also has huge affects internationally, as well. Lets not forget that this man orchestrated and kills thousands of muslims. He was a modern-day Hitler.
6 up, 0 down
Excelsior1
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:04:35 PM
my dad is hard right, and was always telling me they'd never catch osama on obama's watch becuase barrack was a muslim and they watch out for each other.??? my dad did call this morning and told me he thought obama and the troops did a great job. i actually thought i stepped in an alternate universe.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 5/2/2011 3:08:43 PM
7 up, 3 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:07:22 PM
Gross overstatement. Murder of thousands vs. murder of millions. A grey and meaningless line, I know. :(
Anyways, I understand the meaning it has to Americans, but to a non-American, you have to understand it's not quite as full of meaning. I mean, as an outsider looking in, it's merely the end of one of many tragedies. I still see war in Korea... the tragedy that happened in Rawanda... natural disasters in other countries that took even more lives than Osama did, like the earthquake in Haiti... all the wars across the world you haven't even heard of...
To me, this Osama thing is just another big drop in the bucket. I'm glad there's some closure for people, but you'll have to forgive me for not being invested in it. Americans rarely do so for others when they hear of something on the news. For example: When's the last time any American heard on the news about a Canadian soldier that was killed? You don't cry for our lost ones. Which is understandable. But you can't then expect us to understand or invest in your tragedies if the same favour isn't turned towards us. You know what I mean? I was certainly glued to my set during 9/11 here, and I did sympathise 100%!!! I still do! But not more than I sympathise with other tragedies people face. It's all tragedy, and I try to greet it all with at least some compassion.
So yeah... i get the closure. But don't pretend you aren't celebrating a man's death. It's not like the war is over.
Anyways, I'm 100% with you guys, though. I'm VERY happy you got your closure. I just wanted to share why I think some people will see it as a celebration of someone's death.
He certainly got what he deserved... not that I am fit to pass judgement.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2011 3:13:46 PM
7 up, 3 down
jimmyhandsome
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:26:43 PM
If you don't care or am not invested in this, then politely STFU. How are you even comparing the earthquakes in Haiti and Japan to a terrorist attack of innoncent civilians all around the world??
This does have a profound impact on my life and millions of other Americans. I'm not going to bother listing the reasons because its really shouldn't matter, nor is it any of your business but you should try to refrain from making such insensitive comments about an issue you clearly think "has no meaning".
1 up, 12 down
maxpontiac
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:27:05 PM
I for one am not asking you to feel the same as I and others do, nor am I asking you to invest anything.
I do however ask you not to clump the apples with the oranges.
Not all Americans show a lack of respect for loss of life nor do all Americans expect special treatment. Yet, you post as if you are doing nothing more then stereotyping.
I am not personally throwing a party over OBL's death. Am I excited over it? Of course I am, but respectfully so. While OBL's elimination represents a victory, it's as you said, only one drop (although a bigger one) in the bucket.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 5/2/2011 3:28:09 PM
1 up, 1 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:37:10 PM
Also, I compared it to many international tragedies, including Rawanda (which was worse, so show some respect instead of blowing it off as a meaningless point...). I'm not saying it has the same symbolism, but it terms of number of innocent deaths, they are no different. The end is the same despite the means.
Lastly, I clearly showed no disrespect and said nothing wrong. It doesn't do my comment justice to quote me... with a quote you cannot find in my comment... so.... yeah....
Re-read what I wrote. I think you jumped the gun. I'm not sure how me telling you guys that I sympathised through 9/11 and watched the whole thing unfold is another way of saying, "I don't care".
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2011 3:42:37 PM
7 up, 2 down
jimmyhandsome
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 4:00:48 PM
You said it yourself, those other tragedies don't have the same symbolism. Boom. Thats the point. You clearly don't even see what this monster represents to Americans, nor do you think we should want your sympathy. You're stereotyping all Americans as a bunch of ignorants that don't care about global affairs. Don't use this topic as a means to try to "prove me wrong" again. Leave this alone if you aren't invested, because plenty of us are.
And don't assume you know me, or that I don't have any international influence. Please. You're starting to grasp for straws with this nonsense.
Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 5/2/2011 4:11:23 PM
2 up, 7 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:31:37 PM
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2011 5:36:30 PM
5 up, 1 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 10:03:25 PM
Seriously though. I honestly meant no offense, and I genuinely don't know where you found any. I think the up and down votes are indicative of that as well. I'm sorry to have ruffled your feathers on this one.
2 up, 1 down
Temjin001
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:24:16 PM
Reply
I suspect this conflict cannot be defeated with the death of one man acting under the ideology built on their system of belief. If anything I sense he'll go down in their history as a martyr of their god.
4 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:36:52 PM
Last edited by Jawknee on 5/2/2011 1:40:27 PM
3 up, 1 down
MyWorstNightmar
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:22:27 PM
You may say, what does that matter, they are suicide bombers, and already believe they are going to die.
I dunno about that. I don't think the higher ups are so eager to die. I don't think Osama was prepaired to die when he was using that woman as a human shield.
I also appreciate the military. The US didn't start this mess, but we'll sure as hell end it.
3 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:53:27 PM
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/2/2011 3:54:00 PM
2 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 5:55:36 PM
0 up, 0 down
jimmyhandsome
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 7:12:06 PM
0 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 10:04:22 PM
Case in point... a 14 inning game that is still 1-1.
0 up, 0 down
kraygen
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:25:03 PM
Reply
However I don't see any evil elven kings trying to destroy the earth and the world being dominated by larger than life bugs and things so I highly doubt the real world will ever help to influence or bring about more games of my favorite genre. lol
0 up, 0 down
Lawless SXE
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:25:34 PM
Reply
Perhaps the media will swing away from the war or perhaps turn against it, and if that happens all must follow. It will become more difficult to market shooters, as there no longer is that presence of an enemy to goad public support. Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels here, but this could have a huge effect on everyday life, even though it may not seem to be overly important.
I'm not trying to get political with that last statement, but the news has little effect on my welfare and so, to me, is worth little more than a passing mention. I've moved on from 9/11 (aided of course by my not being American, and ten years old at the time). But I will be very interested in seeing the political, social and economic fallout from this turn of events. We are indeed living in interesting times.
Peace.
1 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:52:21 PM
Reply
5 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:00:27 PM
4 up, 1 down
sha4dowknight05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 1:58:48 PM
Reply
Oh well guess we'll see in the future if any of his influence is in our video games anymore.
0 up, 0 down
sha4dowknight05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:28:06 PM
my bad typos!
Last edited by sha4dowknight05 on 5/2/2011 2:28:24 PM
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 2:58:45 PM
Reply
3 up, 0 down
Excelsior1
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 3:24:33 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Godslim
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 4:06:07 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
karneli lll
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 4:30:44 PM
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1 up, 0 down
THEVERDIN
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 4:42:44 PM
Reply
3 up, 2 down
Qubex
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:30:53 AM
It has been brutal!
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
2 up, 0 down
karneli lll
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 4:57:24 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Pandacastro
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 6:03:24 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
pillz81
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 6:23:10 PM
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“What caused him to justify his acts?” See above.
Let’s see, some Wahhabi publications left in some American mosques say "always oppose" infidels "in every way", "hate them for their religion ... for Allah's sake".
There is your answer.
Now to answer some of frostface’s questions.
“where's the justice when your men and women are still fighting and dying in a war they went into under false pretenses?” It was primarily a result of the 9/11 attacks. Where is the false pretense?
You must be referring to the war in Iraq. Why are you are lumping Afghanistan with Iraq?
It really chaps my hide when people are willfully ignorant and veil their criticisms by pussyfooting.
1 up, 1 down
Robochic
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 8:07:24 PM
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Anywase weird how everything falls together, Osama gets killed and I have to vote today to see who gets in will it be sweater vest harper, will it be iggy libral,jackyboylayton NDP, or well the lets separate fromc anada the bloc oh the suspense, we all know it'll be a minority again what a waste of tax payers
money.
0 up, 0 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 8:26:29 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 9:24:21 PM
1 up, 0 down
Lairfan
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 9:50:15 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
sinister nero
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 10:37:45 PM
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2 up, 0 down
Shams
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 10:51:53 PM
I wish we could've captured him. At least we would've had a bargaining chip, not to say we should negotiate with terrorists...just that I think many more innocents are gonna die instead of the bad guys.
Oh well, guess this is a feather in his cap and good timing for Obama for a strong possibility of reelection.
0 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 11:31:11 PM
And you can't be so sure this will help Obama in his reelection bid. If gas is still $5 a gallon and food prices are still rising, which they are, and unemployment is still close to ten precent people aren't going to give him another 4 years just for giving the command to go get Osama. American's aren't that shallow. Example, after George H.W. Bush ousted Saddam from Kuwait, his approval rating went up to 90%. He then went on to lose to Bill Clinton because the economy was still in the tank and he raised every ones taxes.
Last edited by Jawknee on 5/2/2011 11:35:36 PM
1 up, 1 down
main_event05
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 11:42:19 PM
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:23:01 AM
If we'd captured him alive, there would have been a never ending circus around him and his trial. Not to mention attempt after attempt to force his release by kidnapping ever more valuable targets for trade. Finally if and when he died in custody his very high profile path to martyrdom would be complete which would drive even more attacks in the name of the martyr.
Instead he died during a quick attack and has been buried at sea, no specific location for people to mark or visit. His death was hardly a glorious one, and it's clear he wasn't living a difficult life. In the end, I think that the way this has gone down minimizes his future impact, and for the moment cripples the leadership of that Terrorist organization. One question that remains to be answered is how much of what Al Qaeda is/was/stood for was Bin Laden, and how much is/was something else.
1 up, 0 down
Qubex
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:26:41 AM
The world may have actually gotten a little more dangerous, rather than safer.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
Last edited by Qubex on 5/3/2011 2:28:00 AM
1 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 11:48:24 AM
1 up, 0 down
Shams
Wednesday, May 04, 2011 @ 12:14:02 AM
@Jawknee: Too early to tell right now. Stories coming from the Cabinet, the Pentagon, and the military have too many disparities and plot holes, i.e. OBL shot at them, or OBL did not return fire, or OBL was unarmed but resisted arrest, or OBL was shot as soon as one soldier claim to recognize him. First we were told an unidentified lady was used as a human shield and killed. Then we are told an unidentified woman was caught in cross fire and killed, and his wife had "rushed" the soldiers (presumably in a burka) when OBL was found, so she was shot in the leg. One story tells us one of the helicopters crashed landed purely due to mechanical failure and blown up to avoid enemy acquisition of it, then another story tells us it was fired on by small arms and "somehow" the Blackhawk took too much damage. One story claims the compound was heavily guarded, yet another tells us only two couriers were killed, an unidentified lady, and Osama's unarmed 19 year old son. One story tells us he was positively ID'd before a convenient sea burial, yet another one tells us half his face and head was blown off, yet "facial recognition" software was used to ID him, and a DNA match all within 24hrs. One story tells us that his location was determined by traced cell phone call (how they linked the courier's name or alias with the cell phone call when every donkey-rider in the country has at least two phones is simply infeasible), yet another story tells us OBL specifically forbade the use of phone or internet messaging, in or around the compound, and used couriers specifically for the reason for ensuring secure information, yet we were told they were Pakistani (non-Arabic speaking). Like I said, too many plot holes.
0 up, 0 down
Summoner
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 11:39:42 PM
Reply
I've been following this website for quite some time now, and I like the fact that the articles address all aspects of videogames.
I found this article particularly interesting.
My ideas will probably be considered unpopular, so I apologize in advance. My intention is to bring up issues to think about, not to offend.
Bin Laden affected everyone's lives. The day of his death is a historic event, that's for sure. And even though i live far away from the USA, i can even understand american people's relief, as they get to know about Bin Laden's death. But is it right to celebrate like that? 10 years have passed since the "war on terror" started.. and what has been going on in the meantime? A lot of soldiers never got to see their families again, a lot of voiceless civilians (like us) in Afghanistan had to face the nightmare of a war in their homeland for many years, and if they didn't die in silence, they now have to face an unknown future.
Are we sure this is a victory, overall?
One thing that surprises me, is that a lot of people seem to, voluntarily or not, ignore the fact that Bin Laden most likely was trained by the USA itself, back in the 70s, when people like him could make a useful ally against the soviets. With those facts in mind, and their consequences, it's not hard to see that the horrible facts of 9/11 may just have been a revenge against the USA. Innocents paid with their lives, for the poor choices their government had previously made..as innocent people in Afghanistan paid for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know, it will sound lame, but innocent civilians are always the real losers during wars. So my opinion is that we, as civilians, shouldn't take sides and fight each other. By doing so, we do exactly what these "evil" organizations want.. generate chaos, fear, more violence. We should stand united, question authority, and keep in mind that the "bad guys" might be closer than we could ever imagine. If you think about that, a lot of homicides occur in families.
I also think that killing the "villain", as satisfying as it can be, doesn't solve the problem at the source. Eventually, another villain will spawn.
Bin Laden's death has generated even more hate.
So, again, my main point is, I think that this can't be a considered a real victory.
Oops, sorry this is getting out of hand, this is huge for a first post!
Game developers definitely took advantage of popular facts also involving Bin Laden to attract more customers. The first decade of the 21st century saw an incredible increase of FPSs, for a reason.
As for the role of games in such important matters.. I agree with Ben, that people should pay attention not to confuse virtual life with real life.. and with games starting to look so real, it gets harder and harder.
Some people end up emulating what they see in movies, and i'm afraid that some others could start emulating what they see in videogames too.. especially considering that you can actually interact with the environment in videogames, and immerse yourself in all kinds of roles..
Actually, i've heard that one of the guys responsible for the killings at the Columbine High School, was a huge fan of Doom and wanted to emulate what he saw in the game.. I dont know how much the videogame influenced him, and you surely need to be a psycho anyway, to end up doing what he did.. but we definitely need to use videogames carefully and wisely
2 up, 3 down
Qubex
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 2:28:28 AM
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 10:43:39 AM
A lot of good "food for thought" in your first post
0 up, 0 down
I007spectre
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 11:43:29 PM
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2 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 5:10:29 AM
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its so stupid the whole six days debacle, i mean if it was people who were evolved complaining then i could understand, but there the ones making the dam game!
people are too sensitive these days, i mean 99% of the people bitching about these things are not the ones who know anyone that its happened to, there just bitching for the sake of it!
there like the media and violent games, i mean i had to piss myself laughing when a fellow twitterer tweeted to davids new TM trailer complaining the depiction of sweet tooth raping that lady at the end.
then another guy wrote coming up next on fox news, the game that teaches you how to rape people.
then david came on and spewed his usual colorful language.
if you were directly or indirectly effected by something then ok you have the right to be offended by it, but if not then shut the ^%$# up and get over it!
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 1:27:59 PM
Reply
Hmmmm, since “buried at sea” actually means “dumped in the ocean, that also means this should be the highest percentage ever of viewers watching the next episode of "Shark Week".
Last edited by BikerSaint on 5/3/2011 1:45:30 PM
1 up, 0 down
Ultimate_Balla
Tuesday, May 03, 2011 @ 6:43:34 PM
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2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Reply
Monday, May 02, 2011 @ 12:15:53 PM
Oh nos! Does that mean that the shooter bubble may burst at last?!
Joy!
Last edited by Highlander on 5/2/2011 12:17:20 PM