PS3 News: Blumenthal Praises Sony's Response To PSN Ordeal - PS3 News

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Blumenthal Praises Sony's Response To PSN Ordeal

It seems all the top stories concerning the current PlayStation Network outage revolve around exaggeration, falsities, and outright hatred.

Of course, that means the more down-to-earth and informative articles disappear in the chaos. Not long after the Internet exploded with news about Sony being dragged before Congress (or so it was stated), and Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal's "scathing" letter to Sony executives demanding they react, another story has surfaced: Blumenthal now says Sony's response to this whole mess "could serve as a model for other companies facing similar criminal hacking."

In a released statement, Blumenthal praised Sony's plan to offer identity theft protection for PSN users, and called it a "strong first step toward protecting millions of consumers." He still believes Sony could've warned users earlier (and in that respect, we agree), but in the long run, this breach should remind us that "our laws and data security resources must keep pace with advancing technology." Cyber-terrorism is bound to be a very real problem in the coming years, and as most security experts say, your information isn't really safe anywhere.

Tags: psn, psn outage, playstation network, sony

5/11/2011 8:42:48 PM Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (153 posts)

Helghast
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:02:36 PM
Reply

I think Sony is handling the situation pretty good. I hope the network is up soon, but I am glad they are not rushing it. The people that are yelling and screaming saying that Sony sucks because they are taking too long, are the same people that would be yelling and screaming if Sony rushed it and the network got hacked again. I feel bad for Sony because some people will just NEVER be happy.

Agree with this comment 28 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Mdash0009
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:11:31 PM

yep, sony is doing a good job not letting themselves be rushed by all the impatient complainyers. they know impatient complainers are wrong. theyre making sure evey1s info is secure so that this will never happen again. better to hav it done right then quick. i like sony =)

Last edited by Mdash0009 on 5/11/2011 10:14:37 PM

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:58:27 PM

Excellent point.

I guess people just love to complain. Working at the cinemas, it's all too common there, regardless of how well we keep everything clean and organised.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

tazdood1199
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:05:10 AM

So tired of the complaining about PSN not being back up yet. If you want it to be hacked again, by all means bring it back now. Just stop bitching.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

gangan19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:27:54 PM
Reply

we killed bin laden when psn is down...who knows what we capable of :)

Last edited by gangan19 on 5/11/2011 9:28:19 PM

Agree with this comment 11 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

DirtySkillzHD
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:30:11 PM

@gangan19, wtf? Anyways, i have to agree with Helghast, better safe than sorry.I can't wait to see the features this new and improved PSN has to offer, from what i hear there is a slew of new features coming our way.


Last edited by DirtySkillzHD on 5/11/2011 9:31:13 PM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

gangan19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:15:47 PM

after ten years or so, the guy was hiding, psn goes down... and guess what happens.

it's was a lil joke don't make it to complicated.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:00:49 PM

If you've seen the pic of President Obama playing PS3 attempting to "control" things in the situation room at the time of Bin Laden's death, it makes a whole lot more sense. ;)

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:34:12 PM

lol, did someone do a PS3 photoshop job on that one pic?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/11/2011 11:34:25 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:36:47 PM

Sure did. Here's the link.

http://cdn.thesocialnerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/obama_video_game.jpg

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:01:28 AM

HAHA, that's the look on my face when getting pwned in an FPS. Now I know why Hilary had her hand over her mouth.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/12/2011 12:02:01 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

gangan19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:07:13 AM

that is a really serious gaming face

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:48:04 PM
Reply

Yea u eat them words senator D*bag! this is exactly how a company should handle crises like this. People keep pissin and moanin about how sony failed to keep them informed. Bull****! Iam about at a point where I just want to kick the complainers and decietful journalists right in the ball bags. If u ask me you're all lucky sony kept you informed PERIOD. Any other company would have tried to keep it underwraps and then u'd be really screwed because you'd be without any forewarning of fraud spam spyware etc. So now what? Oh you cant play online who really gives a flying ****! U OWN A PS3 for god sake lol, its not like sony entertainment completely hinges on the well being of the PSN.

Well ben im happy to say i saw an article similar to this the other day (suprisingly ur not the only one with common sense) unfortunately i can no longer find it due to the overwhelming ammount of negetive press.... wah wah wah...

Agree with this comment 11 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Bigtuna1
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:24:01 PM

Although I agree that the press Sony has been getting over this is crazy and absurd, but there should be no surprise by the reaction of the masses. This is exactly why most companies keep these things under wraps. It may not be fair but it is the reality that we live in. ME ME ME NOW NOW NOW

Secondly for those that don't use psn much and find it ok to tell others how to use there ps3... go jump off a cliff or something. Believe it or not some people only play one or two games and if those games are online only (MAG or Warhawk anybody) than they are totally down a gaming system. Just because you don't use yours that way gives you no right to tell others how they should use it.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:56:08 PM

Don't agree with the way you put it BigRed, but I do agree with your opinion that Sony did more than any other company would.

Might wanna tone down the explicit negative language their, mate. I know you're passionate about this, but Ben tries to keep things civil around here. Just my 2 cents. :)

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:52:34 PM
Reply

oh and yea, sony gets even more brownie points with the new updates, the free stuff, ID theft protection etc. cheers to that. plus psn was free to begin with so i can dig a little bonus.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lairfan
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 9:56:26 PM
Reply

Journalistic Integrity Scoreboard:

Ben Dutka - 300,000
Pretty much everyone else - 0
IGN - -1000

Agree with this comment 7 up, 6 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:07:18 PM

Come on. Ben gets his news from 'pretty much everyone else'.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:34:45 PM

Porkchop-
Theirs a difference between posting a mature, professional article though. Yea we get it news has to start some where, but what good is that news if your portraying it wrong and giving readers a false statement of what is really going on? That's not journalism it's childish writing from junior high! Honeslty that's all gaming news is these days are wannabe writers filling up the cyber space. It's embarrassing to those of us who enjoy common sense in an article.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/11/2011 11:35:34 PM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:35:29 PM

It's the lack of wild fox news-like spinning that counts PorkChop.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:41:17 PM

In less and maybe wiser words, what world said!

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:58:52 PM

But everyone else a 0? Get real. In fact, as much as people harp on the immaturity of Xbox owners, the few 360-centric sites I frequent have made no mention of this problem or taken any potshots(i.e. editorials) at Sony. He's not the only one being respectful of this situation. That's all I'm saying.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:00:47 AM

Then those sites are to be commended and recommended.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:05:25 AM

haha. No, but I think people lump everyone else in with the craziness of a few at Gamespot and IGN.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:07:48 AM

Absolutely what world said because you don't see that often anymore!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:12:58 AM

and kotaku, destructoid, etc

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:18:40 AM

Never been on those. I usually stick to exclusive sites because the news and info is perfect for the particular console.

Last edited by PorkChopGamer on 5/12/2011 12:22:30 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:30:39 AM

Xbox-centric sites have no reason to post news about this; it has nothing to do with them. That's not being respectful. That's just abiding by the site parameters.

When a new Xbox is announced, there will be no news here about it. Maybe I'll do an editorial, but even that's unlikely, unless I link it with something Sony-related.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:31:35 AM

PorkChop,

I know for a fact - yes fact - that Ben gets news from press releases, inside contacts, and other sources like contacts, twitter and of course news tips. I also know for a fact that before Ben posts a story here he checks it's sources to verify the story rather than simply-repost something. You'll tend to find that Ben also writes lots of editorials on topics of the day, and game reviews.

Sorry, but you are burning through what little credibility you have with other contributors in this community. Perhaps you could check the attitude at the door, it might help you.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:01:02 AM

Highlander- I wasted alot of my credibility capital on the Last Rebellion thing. Don't have much else to lose. Seriously, just here to share my opinion. You like it, cool. You hate it, that's cool, as well. I can't be fake to be accepted.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 6 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:31:59 AM

Unless I missed something, no one is suggesting you should somehow act fake.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:22:59 AM

no one's suggesting you should be fake. They're merely suggesting you're wrong. I, personally, don't believe objective comments can be accepted by referring to an opinion.

In regards to this topic, almost "everyone else" got their news from Sony's blog. Most then twisted the comments through their own minor inaccuracies. The only "everyone else" news Ben gets is due to interviews and the like.

Pretty much every site gets it news from "everyone else". It's sort of how news happens... from word spreading. The difference is in how a particular journalist interperets the news and how they spin it.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:56:05 AM

Those "5 thumbs down" tell me that five people need to move on from PSX.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 11:33:08 AM

Okay, I don't see why people can't understand this. It's like I'm stuck in Rand McNally, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people.

I think Ben is a good journalist. But what the culture is around here is that everything should be trashed for the upliftling of something you like. Stuff like 'Stupid Xbots' permeates most articles. Why is that necessary? I hate liver but every time my wife cooks something I don't rag on liver constantly to uplift the pork chops(heh).
Ben can still be awesome but to make like he's Cronkite and everyone else that is out there working hard is trash is pretty silly. Give props, sure but let's admit that there are other professionals out there.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:19:12 PM

Pork Chop, attacking Ben won't get you anything but banned.

By all means, keep it up.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:51:02 PM

Like I said, I get what PorkChop is saying. I know there are plenty of other journalists out there who have handled all this quite well.

I think maybe people are taking more offense to his defense of other sites they don't like. Or something like that. I don't think his point has anything to do with me or PSXE.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 5/12/2011 5:51:11 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

TheCanadianGuy
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:23:11 PM
Reply

1 Thing Nobody Has Said Yet Its A Real Shame Of All Years For This To Happen It Happens In What Probably Would'a Went Down As ThePS3's Best Year Of Its LifeCycle. Years From Now When Everyone Thinks Back On PS3 In 2011 This BS Is All They'll Bring Up. It To Bad

Last edited by TheCanadianGuy on 5/11/2011 10:24:03 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

rogers71
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:35:20 PM

I disagree wholeheartedly. I think that once the PSN is up and everyone gets back to some normalcy, this whole thing will blow over and be forgotten.

Now, if this kind of thing happens again, well, that is another thing altogether.

Ben,
Like they say, Patience is a virtue and it is in short supply with people these days. This outage hasn't affected me but I am looking forward to when it comes back up, just to see what kind of goodies Sony throws on the Store.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:53:00 PM

I agree with Rogers.

The PS3 problem of February last year, where the internal clock mistook the day for a leap year and couldn't sync with the network, is a faded memory to many.

While this may take time to fade, it will be just that, a memory. Sure, many might not use their credit cards like they used to and many will change their private info, but so long as the network is back up again, people will happily play.

As for those who traded their PS3 for a 360, you'll regret it once Uncharted 3, Twisted Metal, Last Guardian and Resistence 3 come out. You might have to cut back on a game or 2 each year to help pay for your Live subscription too.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:19:13 AM

Rogers71, some damage has been done... and that is a fact too. We can't quantify specifically yet, but I think some customers have turned away to the dark side of the force.

It's a loss to themselves...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:38:10 AM

Q-

Your talking a very minimal amount of people. You can argue a minimal amount is still a loss. But its not worth arguin over when it'll hardly be noticed.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

TheCanadianGuy
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:56:55 AM

Yea I Didn't Mean Everyone Will Remember This As PS3's 2011 Just A Good Chunk. Majority Of Us Will Forget About It. As For That 'internal clock' Thing Last Year All Do Respect That Lasted What ? Like 2 Days? All I Remember About That Is Not Being Able To Finish My First Playthough Of HEAVY RAIN. That wasn't Cool

Last edited by TheCanadianGuy on 5/12/2011 10:00:20 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

TheCanadianGuy
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:56:56 AM



Last edited by TheCanadianGuy on 5/12/2011 9:57:21 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:38:43 PM
Reply

I jusy hope all the Xbots, biased "journalists" and anyone blaming Sony read this.

Everyone blames Sony for not reacting quick enough and talks about Xbox Live being far more secure, but here are actual FACTS!!

Fact: Xbox Live is successfully hacked on a far more regular basis than PSN. Most of those hacks, however, involve CoD hacks and cheaters trying to cheat their way to the top of the ladder.

Fact: You pay for Xbox Live, so more resources are spent on security, but it is only a minor improvement on what PSN had in place, eg. firewalls, hashed credit card info, etc.

Fact: When Xbox Live receives a major hack attempting to steal customer info, MS simply patch the hole without informing a single soul and call it a day.

Fact: Sony have kept the PSN down for this long of their own accord to ensure that this won't happen again. Unfortunately, Live won't eveer do the same. They believe in cheap little patchworks and keeping gamers happily playing in ignorant bliss while their information is hacked (or attempted) to be retrieved again and again.

I actually applaud Sony for how well they have handled this situation, and like many people say, it's a free service, so in reality Sony don't owe us anything!!! The timeframe recently published shows that even Sony had no idea for the first 5 days what the hell was going on until the 3 IT security groups found traces of hacker activity. On the 6th day, Patrick Seybold published the first message on the blog and proceeded to email every PSN email account about what they recently discovered AND tips on what to do to secure your private information and how to handle scammers contacting you.

Again, Sony should be commended for their actions because they DID NOT act like every other company, keep customers in the dark, make up a lie to keep people blissfully ignorant just to maintain their pretty image.

I, for one, am interested in seeing if this ordeal is brought up at E3 this year. I think this new honest and open approach to dealing with PSN hacks is something Kazuo Harai should be rewarded for. The fact that they're giving everyone free premium service and free games for the 30 day period is unbelievably generous for something that wasn't technically their fault.

Again, I hope many people see Blu's commendation and praise for Sony's handling of the situation, cos he is dead on the money about this one.

As for the many people who assume Sony just paid him off for saying this, what proof do you have? There is more than enough evidence showing Sony bending over backwards to inform congress of everything happening, along with the Government working with Sony to help them catch these bastards responsible. There is NOTHING to suggest Sony paid Blumenthal off. Feel free to ask for his bank statements and off-shore account statements if you REALLY wanna take a stab at Sony's reputation, otherwise, shutup and be patient.

I feel like once this is over, Sony will come out battered and bruised, but stronger than ever!! If anything, Sony are excellent at learning from their mistakes, it's what maintains their company and loyal fans.

Agree with this comment 14 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 10:59:30 PM

Nice post.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:41:55 PM

Thanks Highlander. A praising comment from you is like Michael Jordan saying to a B-Grade basketballer "Nice play"

Agree with this comment 4 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:58:33 PM

Credit where credit is due.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fane1024
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:21:07 AM

Your second fact looks like supposition to me (beyond the fact that people pay for XBL).

Otherwise, I agree.



Last edited by Fane1024 on 5/12/2011 3:22:53 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:21:18 AM

As stated above, some damage has been done... but Sony can recover somewhat from this. In actual dollar terms they have lost quite a bit, and I am sure some of their developers are non too happy with what has occurred. One hopes this whole episodes blows over, and things get back to normal; but it cannot be denied that some fallout has occurred.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:30:50 AM

Facts? With all due respect Dancemachine, but this looks to me just as much speculation as anything else, only this time in Sonys favor.

How do you *know* how much are spent on security on xbox vs Sony? And how can you say that a paid service has more spent on security? Is this fact or speculation?
Amazon, Anarchy Online (mmorpg), Ebay, Sourceforge for that matter, they are all free services. Are they less secure because of that? Is that a FACT - or speculation?

If all Microsoft have to do after an attack is to fix/patch that single hole, do that make their software less worthy in any way? It's after all *the* most common thing to do after an attack. It is *not* common to shut down a service for a *month* afterwards. Not even if you are the FBI or the White House.
Do you make this as if it is a FACT that everyone else are sloppy, but Sony?

And how many times are xbox hacked? What did they manage to steal during those hacks? What was the severity? And what is the source of this info? Cause there is a mile difference in simply being able to post a message on some page, and downloading their entire customer db.

And finally: PSN is *not* free. We all pay for it through everything else ps3 we buy.
Although, if it *was* indeed truly free (as in anyone could connect via anything) they still has a responsibility as trusted keepers of our data.


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 4:34:33 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:47:37 AM

Beamboom-

It is free! Bottom line. You do not have to pay to play the game you bought on the PSN. Your getting into technical terms that actually hold no bearing on weather you can access the PSN or not. If you didn't buy one thing from Sony except the console it's self you could still get on the PSN for free. Therefore it is free that is fairly common knowledge. You being to technical. Same goes for plus members they also don't pay to play on the PSN, they pay for special offers!

As far as what dancemachine said about the security of live vs PSN I cant comment much because I don't care about those statistics. What I will say is LIVE is far more vulnerable to hacks and spamming, and are constantly fending off spammers. Not to turn attention off Sony but Live was hit with a hacking spam to get users information while playing Mw2 the same week the PSN went down. With that said if security is breached, your damn right I'd rather have the server shut down and rebuilt! I commend Sony for doing what they have! And every legal note I've read on the matter also says Sony is doing it right. Sony needs to keep the PSN down until they feel it's safe. At that point and that point only will I log back on.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/12/2011 4:50:32 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:04:39 AM

Ok let's end the "free" discussion, we ain’t getting nowhere there. Bottom line is that it's a question of definition. To some, an offer like "get one coke for free if you buy three cookies" will mean the coke is free, too. If so then there is no argument left to be had. I will say this though: You are a marketers dream. ;)

But regarding the rest of your post: I do not own an x-box, so I have to take your word for it that it's much more plagued with spam etc. However, I must say, that the difference between receiving spam and putting your entire customer base at risk is *immensely* different! It's like two different worlds difference.

Everyone wants Sony to keep psn down until it is safe. We do not discuss that. What I am saying is that to some, that does not have to take a month. And that taking a month, means that the platform to begin with had some severe flaws that forced the *entire* platform to be rebuilt.
But... I guess again this will be an impossible discussion, some will insist that "the longer the better" no matter what.

Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 5:04:55 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:28:45 AM

I get what your saying about it NOT being free. Obviously they have make money somewhere, to be able to provide a FREE network. Buts that's my point regardless, you still don't pay for the service, you pay for the product, which turns profit. I'm also not a marketers dream cus I don't just buy into stuff, a marketers dream is the people who believe they are paying for LiVE because it's a "better" service. But to be fair again I see your point.

I wasn't trying to down play what happened to Sony either by giving examples of what happened on LIVE. In fact it was just a point of example that this type of hacking, or people trying to take advantage of others happens no matter if you pay for the service or not. So I absolutely agree there is a big difference in some spam that tries to capitalize on getting a hold of your info and internal hacks. But they both consist of someone trying to get to something that doesn't belong to them and both can be detrimental to a consumer.

It's a terrible incident it really is and i hear all the cries and frustration but I just try and remain optimistic. I don't see the point in handling it any other way. But I wont discount you or anyone else for feeling different than I. Everyone will handle it differently. But I do enjoy engaging in this conversation which is why you'll always see a post from me on the subject.


Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 7:47:45 AM

Yeah me too, I find the subject to be very interesting both from a technical point of view, but also peoples perception of this entire case amaze me.
From where I stand it looks like a vast majority is willing to treat Sonys words like *law*, and disregard anything that in one way or another go against Sonys official information. I just find that to be so strange!
Since when did corporate info (and now I talk in general terms) turn out to be the best, and most complete source of info, in *any* former case... I mean, at best it's not direct *lies* we've been served, but the core of the matter is more often than not hidden in their public statements.

I have seen *very* little real journalism in this case. Mostly it's been commentaries either twisting Sonys words to their disadvantage, or being a poster wall for Sonys press releases.
There's only one place I've found what I'd call "journalism", and that is from BBC. They've had features where they've interviewed security experts and even convicted hackers to analyse what we know on this case, and many of them has said some darn interesting things too. *That's* journalism. Seeking what lies *behind* the public statements, try to find out what's *not* said in press releases.


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 7:50:09 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:39:18 AM

That "free" argument is lame, saying it isn't free. It is.

Just because they offset the cost of maintaining it, doesn't mean it isn't free.

I'm sure everyone's organization they work for offsets cost in all sorts of ways. For example, I offer free workshops for youth. The can access our resume workshop, interview workshop, entrepreneurial workshop, and more for free. They just show up. But we pay for it by offsetting cost from our career development pot.

It's still programming that requires funding to run, and although it receives funding from other, but related sources, it's still a free service.

PSN is no different. Besides, I'm sure most of their funding comes from the millions they make in PSN sales. NOT access or service charges. See? Related funding to offset cost. But it's still free.

Hey... Microsoft offsets the cost of XBOX advertising through PC related income. Just another example of offsetting cost. All organizations do it.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:21:40 AM

I understand your reasoning Underdog, and as I said, I don't think we get anywhere cause it's all a question of definition.

But to use your workshops for youth as an example: If anyone can join that workshop for free then it is indeed free. If however there is a requirement to buy something in order to get that "free" workshop, then according to my definition, and I'd like to add that I got the Norwegian law on my side in this, the workshop is *not* free.
Here in Norway Sony is prohibited *by law* to call PSN free. You will not find that word anywhere in norwegian advertisments for Playstation. PSN is *included* when you buy a Playstation, at *no additional cost*. But it's not "free".
... Just like the coke is not free because you have to buy three cookies to get it "for free".

You say psn is largely funded by psn sales. I say the same!
We pay for psn through everything else ps3 we buy, including buying psn games. See? We do not disagree here. We just define "free" differently. I do of course believe that my definition is the right one, but you can't expect anything else can you :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 9:32:46 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:43:33 AM

Much of the XBL user information lost is due to stupid people who see "FREE MS POINTS, Xth COD PRESTIGE, HALO RECON ARMOR, ETC.! JUST ENTER YOUR WLID AND PASSWORD" links and open up their account to the phishers. Yes, there are a good number of XBL users who have no clue what account security is and it shows.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:06:10 AM

Well, in Norway, that certainly is the case, I guess.

I'm VERY glad that isn't the case here in Canada, though. That sort of advertising fosters an attitude of entitlement already too high among consumers. Then you run into problems, like this PSN issue, when the appropriate action to take is what Sony has done, but you have now forced them into the corner of actually owing it to you to provide the service you have supposedly paid for.

My big issue with the way law is set up there, is that although you can argue it's a more accurate way of viewing it, (which I do not), it forces organizations to dance around their terminology more. It literally makes no difference beyond the definitions. And in the end, it gives you the impression you are somehow entitled to more than you truly pay for, when in fact, things may be funded through other areas you never touched.

I dunno... that way of setting to terms would make me never want to work retail. Last thing I would need is the lack of freedom to determine how to deliver my free service. It sets businesses up for a fall. I'm not sure how Norway's international trade is fareing, but I can imagine international business moving out of the country over laws like that.

I suppose it's likely those sorts of definitions that has forced Norway to have such state-heavy ownership in strategic areas of your economy. No independant international owner wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole!

Based on what I've read, Norway brings in about 40% of its GDP through international export, almost all of which is trade to major companies. In other words, they deal relatively lowly with a consumer base and more with an industrial base. (1/3 of export being petrolium) Anything consumer based seems to be controlled largely by the state.

But again, that's very quick research and not entirely thorough. But at first glance, I'm glad things are the way they are for us.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/12/2011 10:14:20 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:31:47 AM

Hehe - well, apart from the fact that you *totally* stray off topic here, your assumptions are very wrong too. We got a strong export business because we are an oil nation, oil is the thing that makes the large export.
To indicate that anything consumer based is state controlled is simply... Ridiculous. You must have read about China, or something.

But again, that's off topic. Bottom line is, you think it's fair to call something "free" even though you have to pay in order to get it, I think it's *not* "free" unless it is something you can get without having to buy anything. That's how the case stands, and as such, well, we get no further.


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 10:32:26 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 11:21:10 AM

Beam-

Let's put it this way. Say I just go buy a PS3 and a copy of MAG. I sign up and log on to the PSN. So far the only money I've spent is on the PS3 and MAG. Over the next 10 years I'm still playing MAG, and ten years later I've still only spent money on the console and MAG. I still havnt paid a penny to log on to the PSN over that Span of time. That means it's free... I don't get how your not seeing that.

You don't have to buy something from Sony ( except the console, of course ), to log into the PSN. It's not some sort of obligation that you have to purchase something to log on and play games. It's free, it's a standard service provided by Sony for you to play games on. You said yourself that Sony can't say it's free in your country, but they can say it's "included... At no extra charge"? That means it's free! :)
Included with the console is the PSN which is "being part of the whole".

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/12/2011 11:27:10 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

jimmyhandsome
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:17:56 PM

I agree with you 110% Beamboom. And you're right, this whole debate is up for interpretation and the person's definition of what "free" is. We could throw around analogies all day, but the bottom line is that Sony passes along the costs to provide the PSN to its customers through PS Plus (you didn't think your $50 was going towards demos and free avatars did you?), the cost of peripherals (paying $40-60 for a bluetooth headset), and even the cost of the system (the PS3 has consistently been the most expensive of the 3 consoles through this generation). So while you're not DIRECTLY PAYING Sony to play online, they already have charged you indirectly to do so.

I think the reason why this hasn't been a hot topic before is because of all the ridiculous rebuttals that got thrown around after the PSN went down- "you get what you pay for its free, XBL isn't", "I can't complain its a free service". I call BS. While accessing the PSN doesn't cost the consumer anything more than what they've paid for already, PLENTY of Sony's first party titles revolve around online play. And their marketed and advertised around the use of the PSN ("Create.Share.Play."). Its part of the overall package that you're agreeing to pay for. I mean think about it from a new consumer's stand point. Someone who wants to play online with his buddies deciding between either the cheapest model of the PS3 or Xbox 360. You could get the 199.99 Xbox, but then you have to turn around and pay $60 for XBL for a year. Or you can just get the PS3 for $100 more and have online gaming already included.

Edit: for the record I know I'm not including the differences in the actual system like lack of Blu-Ray player and harddrive space on the 360. Likewise, I'm sure Sony's cost's for everything the PS3 provides (including PSN) is taken into account when setting the price of the system.

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 5/12/2011 12:24:01 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:28:27 PM

Impossible!

We already discussed all those options jimmy, and you can still draw to the conclusion that, that is how Sony is able to make the service FREE to us. It's not like Sony is inflating prices to make up the difference. They are simply taking profit and applying it so we don't have to pay for the PSN. MS does this on top of charging a fee for live. Theirs a huge difference in the way the two networks are handled. Sony is making it so we don't ever have to pay DIRECTLY out of pocket for PSN therefore making the service free, you can't argue that. MS is making you pay directly out of pocket for live.

As far as PSplus, you could argue that you are paying for the PSN, sure. But that still neglects the fact that for those of us without it are still gaining access FREE of charge.

Take my analogy and really look at it. If all I ever bought was a PS3 and a game my entire time of owning that system, and bought nothing else, not even a 2nd DS3, or Bluetooth headset, I would still NEVER have to pay a penny for access to the PSN.

I have to admit you guys make great points. And I completely understand that Sony is offsetting somewhere on purchases. But again that is how they supply the service, so we don't pay for it. But none the less I acknowledge your arguments whole heartedly which is why I continue to stress my points! Thanks for the discussion as always.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/12/2011 1:34:13 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:51:57 PM

Bigrailer: Thanks for your input, I believe the opinion you express is shared by many. And you are right! If you just buy the console and one game then that is indeed all you paid for the game, console and access to psn.

But in reality: How many do you know who own a console and just *one* game, and will never buy a game again?

If your friends are anything like my friends then the answer will be a huge "NONE" - not even close! We know this and we know why. And Sony know this too - it's all calculated behaviour on our part. We *will* buy more games once we got the platform. And we *will* brag about this "freebie" to our friends, and Sony hope that will help convince our friends to select their console and not the competitors.

Just consider the huge price difference of the exact same title for PC and a PS3 and you'll see where you pay for (amongst other things) the access to psn. Right there, in the price difference, is the answer.



Last edited by Beamboom on 5/12/2011 1:56:23 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

jimmyhandsome
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:13:39 PM

@ Bigrailer, while I understand what you're saying that you will never have to pay a penny (in addition to what you already bought) to access PSN after buying 1 game and the system, I don't think that necessarily means that said person hasn't already paid for access to the network.

I was just pointing out the fact that I don't feel that when people say (and I'm not saying you've said it- just general comments I've seen here and other sites during the PSN outage) that "PS3 owners don't have the right to be upset that the network is down because its free". I may not have paid a $50 or $60 subscription fee, but surely the price I paid at retail for all my PS3 games (almost all of which have online multiplayer), 2 DS3s, 1 blu-tooth headset, and 15+ PSN/PSone games I downloaded helped pay to give me access to this service? And I mean, damn, in your example if all I bought was MAG I'd be pretty upset PSN was down!

Agree with this comment 2 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:11:22 PM

Beamboom, and jimmy-

Hah I certainly couldn't just buy one game, I lIke games to much and get to many urges when I see or hear of the next game. But I do indeed have friends that would be fine with just owning COD, or just MADDEN.

On the note about games and price, they have always been around this price tag. They are expensive and have gone up this generation, but really we havnt seen much price difference since the cartridge days.

I have said to some commenters here, that I don't think they should be complaining to much because access is free. I'll admit I have done so. But with that said I also realize a lot of us only game online, and I should be more sympathetic to those who maybe only do have MAG. But really I do feel like people have a right to be upset it sucks the whole situation is a crappy one. I just hope that they be more optimistic and look at it like this: That Sony does offer us a subscriptionless service, and a second note that if they return service today and it gets hacked again tomorrow, you, I and the rest of the world would probably be more upset at that point then if we wait just a few more days to get things ironed out. That also is kind of another debate so I don't wanna get into that to much. But I understand how you feel that even though we don't pay a subscription you maybe have $1,000' of dollars in accessories and software you can't use to the full potential. But even though I understand your argument it doesn't change that we don't pay a subscription.

Anyways rather than just argue our points back n' forth I'd like to just say it's FREE! ;) I'm just playin',




Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/12/2011 3:14:06 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

jimmyhandsome
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:48:39 PM

I def agree with you that I'm a-ok with waiting as long as necessary for Sony to fix this problem so it doesn't happen again- at least in the foreseeable future. This convo has been beaten to death across the world wide web for the past few weeks. Does it suck? Sure. But its out of my control.

We can agree to disagree on the "free" part, bigrailer. I don't think either of us are necessarily "right" or "wrong". I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't think anyone should be any less upset with the fact that PSN is down just because there is no direct subscription fee. I bought Socom 4 2 days before the PSN was taken down, with the sole intent of playing the sh*t out of that game online (I could've cared less for the SP-which I was force to play and beat!). People saying that PSN is free and I should just man up is interepted as "well thats tough luck, because you don't pay for the PSN so you have no reason to complain that you can't play Socom 4 online". Catch my drift?

In any event, good points on both sides.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:59:43 PM

Hey I'm a huge Socom fan and held off on buying it because of
Money. And I can honestly say if I had bought it then the PSN went down I'd be a little antsie. I completely understand. So i am glad in a sense I didn't buy it. But soon as it goes back up im gonna purchase it. So yeah I can absolutely be sympathetic to that!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:53:35 PM

PSN is free at the point of delivery. You pay the same for the console and the game, but if you use XBL you pay to play, and on PS3 you do not. That my friends makes PSN free at the point of delivery. How Sony pays for that service is up to them. Since it's a loss maker so far, it's clear that they are investing money and energy in a long term project, and rather than making users pay up front for basic services, Sony is trying to make money via premium services and content.

However you want to cut it, for those users buying a game and playing it, PSN is free at the point of delivery. Free.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 4:39:42 AM

... just like the coke is "free at the point of delivery" when you buy three cookies. However, you have to buy those cookies in order to get that coke. Ergo, it's not free.

Hehe - we'll never get anywhere in this discussion. The irony is that we all basically are saying the same thing here, it's just a question of how we define "free". The word is such a powerful tool towards the consumers. That's why the marketing laws here in Norway is so specific on this issue.



Last edited by Beamboom on 5/13/2011 4:41:27 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:15:02 PM
Reply

I guess it's only right to keep talking about PSN being down when Sony is getting 'praised'.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 11 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:36:50 PM

Do you wanna cry about it?

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:38:32 PM

I think you've accidentally mixed our editor's personal views on the story with his duties on covering it.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:42:22 PM

He absolutely always does.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:46:03 PM

They aren't being praised because it's down, they are praising Sony because how they reacted when stuff went down, and the measures they took to take care of the data of peoples personal information.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:50:41 PM

I'm not talking about Ben, guys. I'm talking about everyone else saying 'Yeah, we are tired of talking about it.' Now we see even more manifestos. How Sony is the ONLY company could have handled this right. I just didn't want to single out one person. coughDancemachinecough

Agree with this comment 0 up, 11 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:54:28 PM

As usual, nobody has any idea what you're complaining about.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:59:13 PM

Then I read it wrong.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Wednesday, May 11, 2011 @ 11:59:51 PM

An observation is far from complaining.

Last edited by PorkChopGamer on 5/12/2011 12:00:09 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 6 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:01:56 AM

PorkChop,

I don't know whether Ben had already seen the story or not (he probably had), but I sent it as a news tip to him as I felt it was nice to have at least one factual news article that was somewhat positive.

You seem to have a real attitude problem where Ben is concerned. As others have pointed out, Ben's job is to be a journalist in the gaming industry with a specific focus on all things PlayStation. PSN is the biggest story around the PlayStation world right now. Are you saying that he should only cover negative news and hype?

Taking pot-shots at other posters for the length of their posts seems a tad disrespectful to me. If someone puts in the time to construct a good, lengthy post, with a point, someone belittling their contribution because of it's length is just plain rude. If you have a point, make it, don't simply throw in an insult or two, and deliberately naming names simply compounds that.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 12:07:26 AM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:10:40 AM

Slow down, Jimmy Olsen. I said it wasn't aimed at Ben. Scroll back up a bit if you haven't sprained your hand from patting yourself on the back too much.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:13:50 AM

Who is Jimmy Olsen?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/12/2011 12:14:00 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:16:03 AM

He said 'FACT: MS is hacked more than PSN' How could I argue or debate something so ridiculous?

Last edited by PorkChopGamer on 5/12/2011 12:16:52 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:20:37 AM

The kid(long time ago) that helps Lois Lane and Clark Kent with their news.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:21:09 AM

Fact is Porkchop, he was told that by the representatives of a financial institution that is in a position to know how frequently there are fraud alerts as the result of a hack of a service like PSN or XBL. So, as far as I can see, given the information he has, that would qualify as a 'fact'.

And how do I know this? I pay attention to people's posts. I remember reading the post where Dancemachine first related the conversation that had been had.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 12:22:49 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:31:36 AM

Of course, there's no way that anyone would say anything that may be untrue to gain relevance on the internet. BUT, I'm willing to see the best in everyone, so that's my mistake for assuming he was pulling that out of thin air.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:33:55 AM

PorkChop: Okay, but what's the observation?

I guess you're just saying that some members say Sony is the "only company" who could've dealt with this. I haven't seen much of that, but whatever. I can't really comment on other users.

Just so long as you're not making the observation about what WE'RE reporting on. If you check, I was one of the first to call out Sony for its silence.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:34:15 AM

@Porkchop

....

Wow.

....

Just...wow.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 12:34:54 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:45:20 AM

Ben- It wasn't saying anything against you or this site. Dancemachine said that Sony did not act like EVERY other company and keep their customers in the dark. That's just untrue. Sorry, I tried to avoid a direct debate about it because it never goes anywhere. Now I have two going on.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

th3_bLy
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:57:40 AM

I'm trying to follow your argument, but either you're thinking on a different level or what you're saying makes no sense. I'm inclined to believe it's the latter. And going on your latest comment, maybe Sony doesn't act differently from every other company. But they do act differently from MS.

Last edited by th3_bLy on 5/12/2011 1:01:59 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:03:56 AM

@ Porkchop

Nor did I say that Sony was the ONLY company to do what was right with a hacked database. My observations and information was in comparison with other online entertainment companies like Sony.

I offered facts about certain information I'd retrieved from various news sources and even bank officials who confirmed Xbox Live being frequently hacked and MS saying nothing about it. It is fact, not opinion, hence why I placed FACT next to that paragraph.

I too am confused about what you are complaining about. Did you think I was saying that Sony is the ONLY company in the entire world to handle stolen personal information correctly? Cos that was not what I was getting across. I'm sure there are hundreds of companies around the world that get hacked and deal with it openly and nicely, it's just that Sony is the largest company to do it.

So Porkchop, just to set things straight, this is a Playstation-oriented website, where we talk about Playstation related things. My comment involved some facts but mostly opinions about Sony's handling of this difficult situation.

And please don't take potshots at posters like me from now on. It is disrespectful. And while I don't always agree with what you say in most of your posts, I leave you to your opinions, it's how we roll round here.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:05:15 AM

Nice to see Porkchop took my job and ran with it.


Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:17:45 AM

LOL!

LimitedVertigo, I haven't forgotten those posts you made supporting Valve and defending Left 4 Dead earlier last year. Looking back, they were hilarious!! So many thumbs down!!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PorkChopGamer
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:28:50 AM

Heck, I've been ridiculed and ganged up on around here just for liking and defending certain games but I've never walked away saying, 'They've disrespected me!!!' Dancemachine, when you post on the interweb, you have to be prepared to take a little criticism with the praise. No disrespect, but the fact that even 3 weeks later, you're making these long posts addressing the 'xbots, biased journalists, and anyone that may be a little upset with Sony' repeating these same things you and everyone else have said over and over again seems funny to me. Especially, after everyone said they were tired of talking about it. That's all I have to say about it. Mahalo and aloha auinapo.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:04:41 AM

That's cool Porkchop. Thanks for replying and all, but I'm now starting to see what's happened.

I made a comment supporting Sony's actions and supporting Blumenthal's praise in regards to how well and open Sony were in dealing with this whole issue.

However, you took one factual quote I made, which as I explained I got from various news sources AND a bank worker who specialises in credit card fraud, about how Live is hacked more than PSN, yet I also mentioned that MOST of those hacks were related to Call of Duty.

You singled out that one paragraph and said that it was wrong and that I was wrong, and made it out that I was continuing to complain about PSN still being down and Live not being any better in terms of security. It was one paragraph, not representative of the entire post which I related to Ben's article multiple times.

So yes, that paragraph IS fact. Live is hacked more than PSN, but like I said, it's mostly Call of Duty that was hacked. I got this news from a Credit Card bank staff member. I'm not sure if the hacks were successful on Live, but this PSN one sure was.

Also, so long as Ben posts these articles regarding the status of the PSN, I'll make my comments and offer my opinions on the matter. If others are done talking about it, then simply don't bother reading my comment. I'm only offering my 2 cents. :)

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 5/12/2011 2:06:46 AM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:23:35 AM

Lol PorkChap... Highlander does talk the talk... but he writes good and informative posts most of the time...

You guys need to chill! We are all friends here with a little twist of bias here and there.

All i ask, is who ever comments, try to make it balanced... even though I know it sometimes can be difficult... especially if one wants to score brownie points :)

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 5/12/2011 3:27:32 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:56:24 AM

Just a small point...

...why would a bank worker at a credit card firm have any statistics relating to the number of hacking attempts MS or Sony are subjected to.

That's like me working for an investment bank, saying I know the numbers of attacks MS and Sony are subjected to. I dont and neither would he.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 7:05:38 AM

@Digital

I would imagine someone working in fraud prevention would know. Surely they have to get reports and have statistics on it.

(It's just a guess, I'm not sure if they do or not, I don't work in fraud prevention.)

Last edited by Clamedeus on 5/12/2011 7:11:38 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 7:40:35 AM

A credit card firm employee? Maybe - but it would be such a niche area, and I think if they were privvy to such information they would be bound over by regulations relating to sensitive information.

It sounds more like, 'the bloke down the pub says'.

Last edited by D1g1tal5torm on 5/12/2011 7:42:38 AM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 7:54:53 AM

I don't know, it really doesn't concern me.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 5/12/2011 7:57:25 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:36:56 AM

Nor me - just saying, a huge debate amounting to what seems little more than hearsay

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:51:36 AM

An observation that makes a point at the same time is anything but far from a complaint. It's manipulative behaviour that would never be allowed in a discussion among a healthy team of executives.

I don't think you're willing to see the best in everyone, at all. You never compliment someone unless it's a snide "thank you" to someone who says something you agree with in hopes that it provides you with a little more gumption for fighting with another poster.

Lastly, if you want to avoid a direct debate, it's helpful to try not to call someone out on something...

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:08:09 PM

For the record, I don't think PorkChop is saying anything out of whack.

I think I get his point...it was just worded weird.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:44:20 AM
Reply

@dancemachine
Put a little too much mustard on that one did I? Well thats about the extent i'll go to really express what im really thinking. When playstation is all you've ever played you tend to get a little defensive.

Anywho i really gotta stop google browsing this crap. I just find it funny how blumenthal is taking back every negative comment he said originally about sony.

@Bigtuna
Im a gamer, i play everything. PS3 has all the best exclusives and singleplayer games so to me no one really has a good reason to complain about psn being down. Thats great if you want to seclude your gaming experience to one or two online games, but its the single player games that would keep people all the more patient if they only knew. Sorry if i was a bit 2 pervasive, but if thats what it takes for people to speak up... In no way was i trying to tell you what to do, but gaming has never been just about online. Its more than that. To me its a way of solitude and meditation, and the only reason people are complaining is because of their overdependence in online gaming. 8 years ago, online didn't matter, and since the average gamer has been playing for 12 years (official ESRB stat) something had to happen for people to completely blind themselves from what really made gaming awesome and go completely to online. Narratives, gameplay, singleplayer all were more important then because that was the criteria that made a game great. I played games like spyro, twisted metal, ratchet, FFX all were great games and virtually none of them had online. The point that i hope you will learn from this is if you are indeed someone who relies solely on online (and everyone else who falls in that category) is to not loose sight of gaming, what it was and what it has become. The industry has evolved into another mode of social networking, which is great in the society of 2011. Patience is a virtue and its all the more easy to be patient if you understand that hacks happen and will happen again and again. Thats why its so great to have singleplayer games on hand because its times like these that are great for taking a break from the chaos online and have some a lone time with amazing single player experiences that for decades now have been the father of gaming.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:08:18 AM

Haha, that's fine BigRed. Some are just very passionate.

Hey, even I get pretty worked up over some bias things, like Xbots ignoring all the PS3 exclusives and shouting from the roof that 360 has more and better games. I end up cursing my mouth off at them, but I no longer frequent those sites anymore. Just stick to PSXextreme and all is sweet.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:07:26 AM
Reply

This PSN issue should have never happened. I fault Sony for some of this. Having said that I don't really know how we can commend Sony so soon for their response to the whole thing. I'll wait after the PSN is up and more information is provided to make my own opinion on the matter.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 5/12/2011 1:07:58 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:11:51 AM

I just hope that this down time is worth it.

If a clever but freakin' annoying hacker cracks the new security within a month of it being back up, then we're back to square one.

I'm guessing Sony has put detector software of some form up in the network, in an attempt to catch the next hacker red-handed. Oh, how I would love to see the look on the hacker's face when they get caught!!!

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:35:07 AM

You could say that about every network security breach LV, I know you know that. Even Sony isn't trying to say that there was nothing more that could have been done. However blaming Sony for an attack on their network, is rather akin to saying that in that short skirt and heels, they were just asking for it.

Quite a lot of information has already come out about all of this. It wasn't a trivial hack, and Sony hadn't left the door ajar, or hidden the keys under the mat.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 1:36:33 AM

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:28:52 AM

Yip, I also commented weeks ago about the severity of this... this attack went deep and nasty, and could have possibly been an inside job, to the extent that the doors were left open... intently...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 5/12/2011 3:29:27 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:32:27 AM

I agree with all of you. I'm in no way putting the blame on Sony or attempting to justify what the hackers did. I think we will look back on this years from now and learn a lot from it. I mean this is the first true generation of console online gaming. Something like this was bound to happen eventually, it's just too bad it happened to Sony.

But I do see this making them even stronger in the future.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:57:57 PM

Qubex, it could have been an inside job, especially if there was an infrastructure element of the attack that broke through the perimeter. But if it was an inside job, I suspect it would have been over more quickly, and the attackers would have got the CC data they were presumably after. But the attack took days and they did not apparently get the CC data. Of course if the object of the attack was not data theft, then it could still easily have been an inside job.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:12:25 AM
Reply

@Porkchop
if sony didn't do everything ethically right to keep consumers in the loop, what would you have expected them to do, taking into condsideration their resources both internal and external, the size of the network, and the scope of the attack? Understand that a company of that size and a network of that size needs thorough investigation to determine the who what when and how. So expecting a play by play emediately after the fact is completely unfair and out of line.
If there is something you still need from sony in order to convince you that they are going as by the book on this one, then out with it! We would like to understand where your coming from and even provide logical answers, but you make it pretty hard on us to do that so...

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:42:15 AM
Reply

if you go into the psn blog, and read the comments from psn account holders, you can see how much "praise" sony is getting for its response from its own customers. brutal is a word that comes to mind.

if live went down for 22 days due to hackers i imagine ms would have gotten pounded just as hard. maybe even harder since they are all paying for the service and would expect even more.

i just hope the network comes back soon, and we can put this mess behind us. it's been a pretty ugly time for sony, and spoiling what was supposed to be a great year for the ps3.

another thing i worry about is future disruptions in service. hopefully, the network will feature some kind of redunancy that will keep the network from being tossed back into the dark ages when it's attacked.



Agree with this comment 1 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:33:53 AM

The problem with that is that any public comment forum (including this one) is a somewhat self selecting sample, which is utterly useless as a statistical sample of the real population. What I'm getting at is that any time anything goes wrong, people like to complain. When the thing they want to complain about is a tech related thing, they take to the Net and post something. The internet is a great way to focus annoyance and frustration, and people are not afraid to use it for that. But at the end of the day, angry, impatient people are much louder than others, and tend to displace them over time, leaving you with a statistically skewed group of malcontents who like nothing more than spending a day writing some good whining and occasionally flaming someone.

There are no consequences, so people who are impatient or angry feel no inhibitions on their conduct.

Even at PlayStation blog, it's a small group of annoyed people, some of whom may not even own a Sony console. They are very loud and negative, and shout down any positive. Given that, it should not surprise you that there is a large amount of negativity there.

You know, that's pretty much true whether there's a problem or not, people like to complain.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:32:13 AM

Actually Highlander is right, it is a "skewed" statistical view of angry and impatient PlayStation people who have nothing better to do then complain.

Unfortunately, if Sony were ever to release the true economic damage that was inflicted by these attacks, and the number of accounts that will/are eventually deactivated or become dormant; we may never now the true extent of what has happened.

But, i say this, damage has occurred and Sony has lost some customers I would think!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 5/12/2011 3:36:16 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Fane1024
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:34:33 AM

You do need a PSN (or Qriocity, I guess) ID to post on the Blog now, so the whiners likely have a PS3 or PSP.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Killa Tequilla
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:57:36 AM

Fane, you can make a PlaystationNetwork account from your PC. So...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:11:00 PM

Another thing to think about, is just how many of those poster's are actually "astroturfing" the site for MS????

And just many more are some of MS's sympathizers & rabid fan-boys who also made accounts just to take advantage of Sony, trying to kick them in the nuts while Sony's down????

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fane1024
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 2:43:09 AM

Killa,

I did say "likely". :)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:31:34 AM
Reply

I'm worried that this "vendetta" that these hackers have against Sony is going to do some irrepairable damage. All because Sony removed Other OS and because they sued a hacker.

When you consider all that is right and wrong in this world, Sony has been in the right all along. Removal of Other OS was optional with an update, it just meant you had to make a choice:

Your PS3 as a Linux-based computer or your PS3 as an online games console.

I guess those hackers got greedy and wanted both.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 2:48:21 AM

Yes, but the incredible and ridiculous truth, and irony, is that OtherOS was removed in response to the efforts of GeoHot to attack the Firmware of the PS3. He accessed the system Hypervisor and Sony decided that was a sufficient security threat (it was) and they would no longer include OtherOS capability. When the Slim systems were launched that capability was absent, and the firmware update (as you say the optional update) removed it if installed. Scan forward through time and Sony is forced to take further action when Hotz releases a specific encryption key that allows hackers to completely bypass security checking on games or any other application loading on the PS3 - previously hackers had already restored OtherOS to old PS3s, and reverse engineered the signing key allowing them to re-sign any executable so it would work on a retail PS3. So the metldr key Hotz released was not required for the hacking community to do their thing. It was a needless and provocative move.

They settle out of court, apparently Hotz capitulated, and is widely seen as having 'lost' the case. Anonymous claimed that their DDOS attacks were motivated by Sony's treatment of Hotz - although since when has taking someone to court for allegedly breaking the law been a horrible mis-treatment of them? Either way, when the case was settled that should have been the end of it. But of course Hotz kept running his mouth, as did Anonymous.

Now Anonymous has been forced to recognize that certain elements from it's own ranks may well have been responsible for the hack, committed under the cover of the ongoing DDOS attacks by Anonymous.

The most ridiculous bit yet though has to be the threat to hack Sony again because Sony didn't react the way the hackers wanted to the first hack of PSN.

Sony has only ever acted in defense of it's platform, partners and customers. The removal of OtherOS was Hotz fault. The court case was his own fault also, his actions were attention seeking, and not really related to any OtherOS restoration. Yet Sony gets attacked and blamed for all of it. Then when they get attacked for doing nothing more than trying to defend their system using the legal system, they are attacked by the media and an army of suddenly belligerent gamers purporting to be dissatisfied PS3 gamers.

And again, it all comes back to the actions of a tiny number of people who haven't yet grown up sufficiently. Sony has only ever defended it's platform, product, partners and customers.

But then, I shouldn't be surprised, the truth about the removal of OtherOS has been lost in a remarkably short time. The common view is that Sony removed it and then the hacking began, when in fact, it's the other way round. If that can happen in such a short time, perhaps it should be no surprise that people blame Sony, after all, that's all they hear from the media.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 2:54:08 AM

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:35:28 AM

I see now that the Rebug people are developing a CFW that will dual boot into OtherOS. I mean the capability is back, you just need to find an older PS3 to run it on.

Will be interesting to see how it develops. I heard that some driver development may be in the offing to give Linux full GPU acceleration now. Apparently the OtherOS that is available now, as part of the dual booting CFW, has access to the GPU without Hypervisor hindrance, issue is no drivers yet...

Wonder if they will ever be leaked?

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:46:53 AM

Well said Highlander. You certainly have more knowledge about the specifics regarding these things than I do.

Completely forgot it was Hotz's misuse of Other OS and Linux that turned the PS3 into a pirated system.

Since Sony tried to turn the other cheek and just rake in what they could from the masses in regards to the PSP, it did not work and made the PSP a black hole for Sony. I'm sure they assumed if they were to do the same with PS3, it might end the same way. People pirating games and running them with the PS3's source code hack and Sony's profit going down the drain.

Sony were just protecting their property. Hotz single handedly wrecked the fun for PS3 owners, and now here we are.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Killa Tequilla
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:04:11 AM

Wow, awesome post Highlander. I hope everyone read that.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:03:56 PM

Qubex,

What I don't get though, is that if you have an older PSN, you can run an older firmware that still includes OtherOS capability. The new CFW doesn;t really offer that much over the old official firmware, possible RSX access and some newer games, but no online, and the RSX is just a Geforce 7800GTX in disguise. That seems like remarkably little gain for the incredible amount of trouble that people have gone to and the harm that's been done to consumers, employees of Sony and Sony itself. I mean, is all the hassle we've experienced really worth it for access to a 5 year old GPU? It's utterly ridiculous. Everyone would have been better off if they'd simply stuck with the older official firmware since the net effect is much the same. You still have a small population of PS3s that cannot go on PSN, or play the most recent games, but can run Linux. I see no real gain here, and I honestly think that those that do see a significant gain, are fooling themselves.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:48:33 PM

Argh! Sorry, total typo in that last post.

This:
<<< is that if you have an older PSN, you can run an older firmware that still includes OtherOS capability. >>>

Should have been this:

is that if you have an older PS3, you can run an older firmware that still includes OtherOS capability.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:22:55 AM
Reply

whats the pathetic thing is only now are governments starting to create laws to force companies to let consumers know the instant they do.
i thought you were suppose to clean up the sh*t before it hits the fan!
what happened to prevention is the best solution?
were just lucky banks are as organized and secure as they are, otherwise this could of been a whole lot worse!
makes you wonder though, if 77M user accounts were broken into, some containing CC info whats happened to it?
why has it not been used yet?
has it happened, but banks have noticed and sorted it out?
makes you wonder whats happening behind closed doors.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 3:38:08 AM

For some things government moves slowly... If you think tortoises are slow, look across at Capitol Hill... for some things, not all... depends on the interest level and whether the issue is an urgent and perceived threat with imminent consequences...

Obama is to the Tea Party people...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:36:14 AM

but thats the problem, the fact that it takes 77M PSN accounts to get hacked for these laws to be put into place is just pathetic!
what happened to better to be safe then sorry?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:08:08 PM

Heartland Payment systems - 130 million CC transaction records.

PSN, 900 active CC records (confirmed), not 77 million, there were not even 14 million registered CC numbers in the PSN database. Yeah, Sony's hack is more threatening and significant that Heartland. Honestly, if Congress was going to react, there have been far, far larger data breaches with far more financial information being stolen than has happened with PSN. I'm not diminishing the attack on PSN, just questioning the logic that says Congress will treat it as so significant that action is required when they have passed on that opportunity in the wake of larger data breaches in the last.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:49:26 PM

*past* not *last* at the end of that post...

My day for typing errors...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Thinker
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:06:41 AM
Reply

I think most of the vocal complainants on these "I hate Sony"-fests are people who do NOT have a PS3, and probably prefer the "other" console. At least, that's what I'm able to gather from those people's post histories (e.g. on Ars Technica, Slashdot, etc)

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:35:25 AM
Reply

I have owned all incarnations of ps.

I think that even though what they are doing is commendable it's not being done quickly enough. They were tardy in releasing information and are being a bit tardy in getting their network up again.

Say what you like about taking time to make it robust etc but nearly 4 weeks! You would of thought they might have taken some of those staff they laid off back on contract to help sort out the mess.

Maybe then, they wouldn't have affliated companies clamouring at their door for lost revenue, disgruntled PSN users complaining and shareholders bemoaning the share price tumbling again.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:59:18 AM
Reply

'It seems all the top stories concerning the current PlayStation Network outage revolve around exaggeration, falsities, and outright hatred.'

The major news site I look at, BBC news, has covered the PSN outage. It has to take a lot for a tech story to be front page on their site.

It's a top story, isnt lost in the quagmire of bad press and doesnt show any of the negative qualities mentioned in the quote.

The major 'news' sites report it as it is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13265924

Last edited by D1g1tal5torm on 5/12/2011 10:59:39 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Phoelix
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 11:34:13 AM
Reply

A more critical step in being a model company for data breaches would have been to update Apache.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:30:29 PM

I think the point is that he's saying that they may be a model example of how to deal with an attack that has taken place. Since attacks will continue to happen whether people beef up security or not, what really matters is how you deal with the aftermath. That is what the Senator is talking about.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 12:38:52 PM
Reply

@ highlander
Your post is great, but ur forgetting that most hackers at least the ones that have been recieving the press are anarchists, so expecting them to understand our brand of justice just wont happen. And the notion that they havent grown up? Im willing to bet that the people who consider themselves the anonops figureheads are probably in their 30's with a reasonably high level of college education. Theres a big difference between maturity and just hating law enforcement in general.

"although since when has taking someone to court for allegedly breaking the law been a horrible mis-treatment of them?" thats the problem there... law. Any kind of law enforced on the hacker community will not be well recieved so they'll continue to see a suit against a fellow hacker as punishment by the man, and not justice for breaking the law.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

79transam
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 1:07:17 PM
Reply

I dont know if I would praise sony... at least not yet. I will wait to see when the service is back up and how well it functions before I praise them. Right now I would say that they have failed pretty badly as far as keeping customers informed, but have made great efforts to smooth it over with the free services they are offering. I still think they should have been better prepared to defend against this attack and also better prepared to handle the aftermath of the attack.

I await the final end result of this whole mess and I do believe that sony can/will redeem it's lost credibility with a new and improved more secure psn.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Namsative
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:10:39 PM
Reply

Going to post the comment I made at the end of the last thread since this one is more current and some may not see it there.

I've been reading PSN for a while and I haven't posted on articles before today but I thought it was time to post here about the psn downtime.

If you're whinning about PSN being down still or complaining saying it should be back like many of you I see here and around the web are, just stop already b/c you're clueless.

Being someone who has worked in the field for years managing a very large network myself, though not near as large as PSN. I can tell you that the task Sony is faced with is beyond 99% of all PSN users comprehension.

To get a network the size of PSN backup and running is no easy task. Now if all they were doing was getting current servers back up and running due to a breech it would probably be back up by now, but maybe not.

The problem you have with PSN is not only are they implementing a hardware & software firewall among other security measures because they didn't have one in place to begin with!! (face palm) They are also migrating the servers to a new set of servers which they "supposedly" already had in the works prior to the attack.

They have to make sure everything works properly with all the new security measures in place. That you can download games, avatars, addons, movies, to the cloud, voice chat, video chat, etc. That transactions go through safely & securely, you can add PSN cards & codes for games/addons. Connecting to home, music services, hulu +, netflix etc.

They have to test that games can connect to PSN through the firewall correctly and gamers can connect to one another, voice chat etc. It's a lot more complicated than most of you can imagine.

Then what they cannot test is server load that is going hit the servers with a massive influx of people trying to connect all at once when the service is backup. Servers aren't built for your entire user base to be on at the same time.

People jump on and off and at any given time, even weekends or big game releases I would say the servers are no more than 60% capacity if the number is even that high.

You have probably 50million individual accounts or less b/c lots of the accounts are where people have more than one on a system I'm sure. If half of those sign on at once that is going to be a huge load on their servers.

If you've played World of Warcraft then you know about servers going down as a result of big patches or expansions due to everyone logging on at once. It causes problems, slow down, lag, people waiting in a que to login, crashes and it's only 12million subs, not 77million.

So don't expect a perfect PSN when it does come back up, it's going to take a while to iron out the bugs of new servers and to get everything working like it should be.

Now I like PSN, my PS3, PS2, PS1 & PSP but I don't believe they were already in the process of moving the servers. I think that is something they decided to do as a result of the attack as well as the servers being over 5yrs old now and probably in need of a major update.

When Microsoft for example migrated their servers to improve Xbox Live it took them many month's to do so. Just to give you an example of something comparable to PSN.

I could go on and on about this, but bottom line is, people aren't aware of the scope & scale of this project and the amount of time it takes to do something of this size.

I'm not defending Sony b/c their lack of communication to the community has been laughable and their PR department has done a horrific job just like it has in the past many times.

I wouldn't expect PSN back up anytime soon and if they do get it back up by the end of the month it would be a major suprise and a welcome one. Just don't be suprised if it goes right back down due to things they couldn't predict.

All of this being said I think PSN will be a better service with more capabilites going forward due to newer hardware as well as better security in place. We all live & learn, hopefully Sony learns well from this & has more forward thinking in the future.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

jimmyhandsome
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 4:47:01 PM

I wonder how they will "announce" that the servers are back online? Certainly, like you said, the massive influx of people logging on at once would be a pretty big problem. Would they do it region by region?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:18:10 PM

Jimmy,

When they first discussed the re-introduction of PSN (before the SOE attack was discovered) they were planning a phased re-introduction based on region. I am wondering if that means that they will have a bank of supplemental servers that they switch in to that region as it's activated to help handle the initial load of users getting back on and downloading the new firmware.

Namsative,

Great post, and yeah, most people have no idea of the things that need to be done to restore service with something like PSN. One thing I differ with you on is the firewall element. As far as I can determine PSN had perimeter defenses including firewalls, but the web servers themselves were not running software firewalls locally. I don't find that particularly unusual because many large networks I have worked with use discrete firewalls rather than integrated software firewalls running on application servers. But, either way is a viable solution. At this point, I suspect that they may just overspec the servers and put software firewalls on them to be sure.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 5:52:17 PM

I've been patient through this whole ordeal, in fact it isn't bothering me too much, I will continue to be patient as well. But with that said you've opened my eyes even wider. I never thought of a lot of those things you mentioned. For example, having to test the downloading of content through the store, or inputting PSN cards. Those things never crossed my mind, and now I'm intent on giving Sony all the time they need. I was ok with Sony taking their time prior to your post, but what I'm hoping is that others will follow suit and understand the complexities of this whole thing.

Thank you for the post!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 5/12/2011 5:53:56 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 6:11:41 PM

Fair enough - but they can't have all the time in the world.

Already publishers are moaningthreatening to sue due to lost income.

Sony don't have all the time in the world, and they need the community to push them rather than give the impression that's it's ok to take all the time they want to get it right.

Hell, all they have to do is phase functionality in. At the moment, I'd be pleased to login and change my password.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 7:36:41 PM
Reply

so heres a few questions i have and be warned, its very hypothetical. Is it likely for sony to be hacked emmidiately again afterwards and if it does happen, will sony loose its entire marketshare? I hope that they realize how much their busness hinges on a successful restart of PSN. If they get hacked again or if they have to go down for an overloading of the servers, sony fans are going to freak. I for one dont mind all the downtime since i enjoy SP games, but im kind of on edge really hoping for a successful return. If something goes wrong and sony has to cut its losses, well... i just cant imagine changing to another system is what im saying.
And since we're basically fanboys in one way or another, I would like to ask, what would you all do if Playstation just completely went away?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:05:12 PM
Reply

This is not about the consumers, and what we think. What matters is the people who pay Sony to use their network to make money.

It's plain and simple. Sony is starting to affect margins. It wont go unnoticed if it carries on.

chk most recent link for capcpm as an eg.

www tgdaily com/games-and-entertainment-brief/55905-capcom-says-ps3-outage-will-cost-it-millions

It's not great reading.

Last edited by D1g1tal5torm on 5/12/2011 8:09:29 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 8:15:47 PM
Reply

What's the problem with the comments?

Google the following 'Capcom says PS3 outage will cost it millions'.

This is the main problem for sony - not their consumers.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 9:50:46 PM

Sony will compensate developers either financially, or by relaxing contract terms. There's actually news reports today that carry the text of a letter from Sony to their developers that explains a bit more detail about what happened, as well as alluding to some kind of compensation/assistance for developers large and small. But the way it's worded leaves me thinking that the compensation will be handled on a 1 to 1 basis with Sony's partners and their account executive(s).

Last edited by Highlander on 5/12/2011 9:55:12 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Saturday, May 14, 2011 @ 5:10:16 AM

Maybe, but they wont fully compensate and it definitely wont be monetary

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Saturday, May 14, 2011 @ 5:10:20 AM

Maybe, but they wont fully compensate and it definitely wont be monetary

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Thursday, May 12, 2011 @ 10:14:11 PM
Reply

Ubisoft Expects Minimal Impact from PlayStation Network Downtime —May 12, 2011

While the PlayStation Network security breach and subsequent downtime has had significant impact on many PlayStation 3 publishers, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot says he expects his company's cost to be minimal.

Speaking today during Ubisoft's fiscal year 2011 financial results conference call, Guillemot spoke about how the PlayStation Network's security-spawned hiatus was affecting his company. "

The full story here:

http://kotaku.com/5801282/ubisoft-expects-minimal-impact-from-playstation-network-downtime

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Namsative
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 1:31:00 AM
Reply

Highlander,

Speaking with a very good friend who has a friend who works at SOE I was told that the firewalls on all servers weren't properly configured and software firewalls weren't in place as you had guessed as well.

Generally hardware firewalls are enough for most businesses if configured properly, not so for networks of this and scale with customer data as well as the services their providing to their customers.

As to the impact of the outage, it will be minimal "if" they get the network back up by th eend of the month. Anyting longer is going to start impacting company's as they cannot sell dlc, games, etc on PSN and customers may switch to Live or pc games due to an extended outage.

It doesn't affect me much since I have the PS3, Xbox, Wii & a gaming PC so I can play any of the other platforms or single player games to tide myself over until I can resume online play with some friends.

This actually gave me a chance to dust off my Xbox as my friends and I generally enjoy MP on the PS3 bc we like the controller better for the most part. Though the 360 is a good system as well, but I don't care for the controller as well overall.

Anyway, hopefully Sony can restore the network soon making down time for all of it's customers minimal and I get back to enjoying Borderlands Coop. =)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 4:51:16 AM

Why am I not surprised. If this is correct (and I'd say *all* indications point in that direction) it's what a few of us has suspected, and tried to say all along: That the psn network was in one sad shape, a patchwork with major flaws.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 10:47:06 PM

Indeed. I hope that this time round, the multiple third parties working with Sony can ensure that the discrete firewalls at the perimeter and within the network are correctly configured, and that where possible or applicable software firewalls are put in place to supplement the rest of the architecture.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Friday, May 13, 2011 @ 4:48:09 AM
Reply

Ok I have to vent... again. Latest blog on the euro playstation blog, quoting:
"At this time, I can’t give you an exact date, as it will likely be at least a few more days."

Am I really the only one around here who sense a major covert operation here, that "someone" is NOT telling all they know here?
I mean... A FEW more days? Can't give a date??? If it was JUST "a few more days" then I'd say they should very much be able to give a date by now. They've been working "around the clock" for weeks now.

Anyone wanna bet if it will take longer than "a few more days"?


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/13/2011 4:56:23 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

What do you think about The Last Of Us: Remastered?
Fantastic! Can't wait to get it!
Good, not sure if I'll buy immediately.
Eh, not bad, but I don't care.
It's just a stupid money grab.

Previous Poll Results