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Dear Sony: Make The PS4 With Your Fans In Mind

Ever since I heard Sony was working on the next PlayStation, I've been a little concerned about the project.

While I always love all these great advances in technology and artistry, and I'm a huge proponent of titles like Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire, many of the new crazes this generation just haven't done it for me...and that includes digital distribution, multiplayer and motion sensing. I mentioned this before but now I'm appealing to Sony-

Please don't forget about your long-time fans who aren't constantly playing online, who don't necessarily think all games should have motion capabilities, who don't believe that a file full of "games" is the same thing as having a shelf full of actual physical games. I suppose, from a business standpoint, digital distribution and the more social aspects of gaming are a must for the future, but please don't forget all those gamers who haven't changed all that much over the years.

This isn't about living in the past or refusing to evolve; I believe a company can both evolve and continue to cater to its long-time fans who aren't all that fascinated with the many supposed "improvements." Square Enix couldn't understand this and look at their financial position. When it comes to hardware, if you completely change that which has made the PlayStation so popular for so long, that will be a fatal mistake. By all means, adapt to the changing market trends and landscape. I know it's necessary.

But I'm sure you can both acclimate to the altered environment and satisfy those who aren't looking for much more besides a piece of hardware that gives designers and artists more room to maneuver.

Tags: ps4, playstation 4, ps3, sony, new playstation

5/30/2011 9:03:00 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (89 posts)

Mr Bubbles IGR
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:18:15 PM
Reply

hopefully they only have a few hen pecks on their drawing board...cause i am NOT ready for a new game system....just sayin.

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StangMan80
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:01:54 PM

If they wait until everyone wants the new PS4 we will be playing the same old PS3 with old tech for a few years.
It's a good time for them to start. As long as Microsoft can keep their greasy hands off Sony's ideas.

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Riku994
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:19:02 PM
Reply

*Starts slow clap*

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Quincho
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:48:24 PM

*gets on his feet and claps with tears in his eyes*

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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:22:44 PM
Reply

At least it's Sony making the PS4, and not Square-Enix! LOL

Seriously though, I'm with you 100% on this one. While we saw motion control gaming go mainstream this console generation, I am sure that most hardcore gamers out there still prefer the standard controller. I myself own the PlayStation Move and I prefer to use it to play Heavy Rain, but I still use the Dualshock 3 controller to play my other games. I wouldn't mind if Sony would improve on the current motion sensing technology that the Move currently employs, but I do hope that they focus more on what has been successful for them for a long time.

While I still do not see the need for a PS4, Sony is probably right with starting the R&R for their next home console. I do hope that they listen to the fans, but I don't think they'll disappoint me that much once they announce the inevitable PlayStation 4.

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Fane1024
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:37:15 PM

I'm sure R & D for the PS4 began on November 11, 2006, if not earlier.

p.s. LOL @ R&R. Oops. :D


Last edited by Fane1024 on 5/30/2011 11:39:47 PM

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ZettaiSeigi
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 2:31:20 AM

@Fane: Thanks for catching that. Looks like work is catching up to me. Haha!

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matt99
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:22:46 PM
Reply

I think Sony has handled combining new with old very well this generation, there's the PSmove with lots of great games, great multiplayer games, a plethora of downloadable content and yet we still have great old fashioned single player games like uncharted and infamous(to name a few out of many).

So long story short, I'm not worried.

Last edited by matt99 on 5/30/2011 9:23:48 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:16:00 PM

except removing B/C

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gangan19
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:28:38 PM
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They did a great job catering to everyone with the ps3, I don't see why ps4 would be any achilles heal to any one

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Dreno
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:38:15 PM
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Ben, you truly speak for a lot of people, myself included.

I couldn't have said it better.

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BIGRED15
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:42:19 PM
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yea, there's still a lot of PS3 left to see before we need to up the ante.
As long as they keep the physical disc based games and improve in the graphical dept. ill be all for it. Im a game collector so i wouldn't appreciate if they went totally digital. As far as the PS3 goes, i am and always have been a satisfied customer so to me they've always been all about the consumer, but im easy to please so...

Sony shouldn't be intimidated into speeding their production in order to keep up with any up and coming console especially project cafe. Why would anyone be scared of a Mario installment with the graphical prowess of Uncharted. Thats like trying to be afraid of a bunny with fangs and dragon wings. they need to just take their time and let the PS3 completely run its course.

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Temjin001
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 9:54:26 PM
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I'm not concerned with Sony changing their marketing behavior. Their product line has been catering to a broad spectrum of gamer.

Their Move controller wasn't set to "give away the farm" like MS has positioned the KINECT to do. Effectively, polarizing their audience into two types: casual simple minded entertainment and online competitive war games(can't loose their LIVE fan base without keeping their service a priority to the shooter base...here Activision here's XX millions of dollars for exclusive CoD map packs)

Anyway, I doubt Sony would ever condone an agenda too narrow the broad scope of their offerings at the expense of alienating segments of their consumers to have them go somewhere else.

In fact, they've been cultivating a complete Sony eco-system. Their PSone titles are being revisited on PS3, PSP, and Xperia. And the massive capacity of Blu Ray essentially bars out any short term plan to migrate their users to a digital only format. I, for one, would love to trade shelf space for digital. I don't care to have people see my gaming library, and I love the convenience of having my entire gaming entertainment efficiently stored in one neat gaming station (placing discs into trays is so horse 'n carriage =p ) I just hate all the DRM and strings attached bull crap that comes along with digital stuff. Sony has been investing heavily into franchises and software offerings that serve to bolster their identity in the marketplace. One that couldn't be easily bartered and lost in a sour negotiation with a major third party studio leveraging their weight to pull strings in their favor.



Last edited by Temjin001 on 5/30/2011 9:54:59 PM

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StangMan80
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:07:41 PM
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That was said so accurately. I hope they don't forget about us fans who has followed them for so long. If I can't play with a controller I hold with both my hands and can't have a physical collection of my games I would be screwed and be stuck with the PS3 for the rest of my life. I would rather give up too digital media then my duel analog controller. I would never give up to motion gaming completely.

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Killa Tequilla
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:11:13 PM
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Im ready brah!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:20:31 PM
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I don't think they would ditch us yet but I have to say I feel very forgotten this generation. My favorite genre died, physical media was threatened, motion controls made huge waves, I have to pay for DLC to play all of a game, exclusives went weaksauce multiplat and multiplayer now drives most game development cycles.

Whew, yeah I hope they keep me in mind when making the PS4 too.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:15:08 AM

Exclusives still drive pretty good, it's one particular genre where multi-plat is where it's at. As for the death of a genre, you can only be referring to the JRPG, and they are not dead, except in the West.

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Cole
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:26:51 PM

Jrpg's aren't dead ,but they aren't nearly as abundant as they were a mere gen ago.. The same goes for platformers and survival horror games. Which really sucks , because those are my three favourite genres..

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Highlander
Wednesday, June 01, 2011 @ 12:47:50 AM

Cole,

Turn based JRPGs all but died this generation. There have been so few releases on the PS3 in this genre that you literally can count them on the fingers of one hand. Contrast that with the PS2.

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Cole
Wednesday, June 01, 2011 @ 11:12:14 AM

*Sigh*
Don't remind me..Proper turnbased jrpg's can only be found on the DS and PSP nowadays..

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LittleBigMidget
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:20:36 PM
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I just hope Sony makes it very powerful. With a real GPU and no CPU bottle neck. Next gen will be amazing.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:14:00 AM

Saywhatnow?

Are you suggesting that the PS3 lacks a real GPU or has a CPU bottleneck?

The RSX was at the time it was launched more powerful than the nVidia 7800GTX - not to shabby - at the time. And since the Cell boasts better main memory bandwidth than any current generation PC and has internal bandwidth to burn, it's hardly a bottleneck either. Just wondering why you'd bother to request both those things when Sony is not known for producing poorly executed hardware.

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Qubex
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:14:01 AM

BigMidget... it is not so much that the PS3 does not have adequate hardware when one considers the CPU and GPU separately... the main issues for me, and a lot of people, have been the difficulty and getting the best out of the PS3 and how long it has taken some developers to get to grips with the machine, and secondly the greatest of its "bottlenecks"... too little RAM!

The CELL and RSX can crunch through a lot of data, and can produce some stunning results... the issue is the delivery medium; i.e. streaming textures and other gaming data from a "slow" blu-ray / hard disk does not help, and the difficulty in optimising the game engine for a low memory platform, which the PS3 has now become.

If the PS3, even in its current form factor, had 2Gigs of RAM on the mother board... you would see a lot of the current visual artifacts we see in current game engines, such as pop up, LOD resolution and texture distortion all but eradicated. Even first party Sony studios are trying to "squeeze" out what they can from system because they have to spend huge amounts of time figuring out how to get data into the system at a decent rate to be processed by the chipset.

The chipset is very fast, but the mechanic delivery of the data and the bandwidth needed to get the data to the CELL and RSX for processing, can take time, and cause issues as we have seen visually in some games, especially the multi-platform titles.

The PS3 would be fine for another 5 years had we had more RAM... Sony should have not skimped on this.

They should have not tried to make a console that "tries" to do "everything", and then remove features along the way or cut things out. All it does is erk people. It would have been better to have had a PS3 that was an awesome game machine that was built with this in mind, with enough memory to give it a long and fruitful shelf life... and not have to hear of developers struggling to "squeeze" what they can in becomes of tight memory conditions.

Crytech spoke a lot about this whilst developing Crysis2 for consoles, and how challenging it was compared to working with the PC...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Wissam
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:35:17 AM

@Qubex
Hey. you want more ram ? the machine price was 600$ at it launch and people cried about it.
please be a little reasonable. sony cut or removed
the features you are talking about to reduce the price. and other os was removed because you know why. as for the developers complaining about the specs. need I to remained
you that every three months a new cpu is released and a new gpu also. if you brought a top first party developer that what have been
fine with me. crytech = lol. they didn't optimized their first game for PCS and you want
them not to complain about the ps3 memory.
sucker punch will own them once infamous 2 get
released.




Last edited by Wissam on 5/31/2011 3:36:44 AM

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Beamboom
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:13:00 AM

I believe Qubex do have a valid point here. You talk about cutting price Wissam, but how much more would it really cost to, say, double the ram? memory was not *that* expensive back then, relatively speaking...

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 11:53:19 AM

Beamboom,

The system memory in the PS3 is XDR RAM, not standard DDR/DDR2/DDR3, even today XDR memory isn't cheap. It's incredibly fast, but not cheap. When the PS3 was launched I believe that the cost of the XDR memory in the PS3 was in the region of $50, so you're really saying Sony should have lost another $450 million in the first year since they sold about 9 million consoles, that is what it would have cost them. That's plain unreasonable.

It's awfully easy to set here 5+ years after the design was finalized and whine about the amount of memory, but you know, the 360 isn;t really any better off. despite having a unified memory architecture, it has to cordon off adequate memory for it's visual assets too, leaving more or less 256MB for games and resident OS to share. So let's not kid ourselves here. I also challenge the comments about BluRay and streaming. the data transfer rates and straight data read rates of a BluRay device are not poor at all, the latency su8cks, as it does with most optical media. However since the drives in the PS3 were not the 48X DVD drives that sound like a ducted turbofan aircraft on take off, they do have potentially longer waits for random access to a specific spot on the disk. Once they appropriate data has been found, the read rates from BluRay are more than sufficient for most instances. the one time I've seen it break down in a game was in Burnout Paradise, and that streaming issue affected both platforms (PS3 and 360) and was solved by caching to the HDD.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/31/2011 11:58:17 AM

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Beamboom
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 4:01:14 PM

It was *that* expensive? Wow I did not know. I stand corrected.
It must be said though, I don't think +/- $50 would make a difference in me buying the console or not.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 6:18:01 PM

I know, but a the time the world was already incandescent with rage over the sticker price. Adding another $50 to the price would have been impossible, and taking another half billion dollar loss was suicidal. Sony really pushed the envelope in terms of what is in the box.

I think people (in general) forget just how new the technology in the PS3 was. XDR hadn't been used in anything before and was by far the fastest DRAM around. CellBE was just leaving pre-production, BluRay was still stuttering out of the prototype stage. Actually RSX was about the only 'mature' element there, but it was a real challenge to make at over 300 million transistors.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 6:18:04 PM

I know, but a the time the world was already incandescent with rage over the sticker price. Adding another $50 to the price would have been impossible, and taking another half billion dollar loss was suicidal. Sony really pushed the envelope in terms of what is in the box.

I think people (in general) forget just how new the technology in the PS3 was. XDR hadn't been used in anything before and was by far the fastest DRAM around. CellBE was just leaving pre-production, BluRay was still stuttering out of the prototype stage. Actually RSX was about the only 'mature' element there, but it was a real challenge to make at over 300 million transistors.

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rogers71
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:26:02 PM
Reply

I am with you Ben.

There are just way too many things that could go wrong with having all digital games. Think about it....Hard drive crashes, lose your games. If you don't have internet access, you can't download the games. Playstation yellow lights, you lose your games.

I would be willing to bet that when they go all digital their will be so much security in place to make sure the game is locked to the specific console it will be like Singstar songs. I lost over 100 songs when my PS3 bricked. I spent hours on the phone but could never get anyone to transfer the songs to my new PS3. Digital gaming will be the same way.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:43:11 PM

yup, a complete disaster all round.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:34:15 PM

I think it will be locked to your activations, and the content will be encrypted and signed in such a way that it's only usable on a system you have activated, and if it's copied by someone else, it not only does not work, but is signed and therefore traceable.

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sha4dowknight05
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:29:17 PM
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I look forward to digital game distribution and gettign rid of disc games and move on with cartilidge since lasers break easy.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:44:11 PM

You're going to somehow gain cartilage with games in your flesh?

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hellish_devil
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:45:15 PM
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...And keep the Dualshock =)

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Nas Is Like
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:45:33 PM
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And the PS4 discussions and ideas have begun, it seems.

I didn't think they'd start this early.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:50:48 PM

they started earlier than this, people can't leave well enough alone

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 5/30/2011 10:51:02 PM

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Nas Is Like
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:15:54 PM

I'm not complaining by the way, just a bit surprised and actually looking forward to the future discussions. That's all.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:15:55 AM

They started for PS4 a while later than they did for PS3. We were talking about definite PS3 hardware for nearly two years before it arrived.

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LittleBigMidget
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 10:59:35 PM
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Yeah, how DARE people discuss the future of their favorite products.

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Russell Burrows
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:04:34 PM
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I see from the Vita rumors that Sony learned something from the PSP versus DS:

Match the competition on price.
And so it seems that Vita is going to be at the same price as the 3DS.

Thats good.

As far as a PS4:

Game Developers are getting a handle on PS3 Cell development and so for PS4 I expect a more powerfull Cell or a dual Cell setup with much faster GPU or 16 SPEs working together not needing a separate GPU.

I also expect 4 GB of system RAM so as to keep the price at 299 dollars at launch.

I expect a Nintendo Project Cafe to be 399 dollars at launch.

I also expect a 299 dollar offering from Sony and Microsoft to let the wind out of Nintendos sails.

I also expect full B/C with PS3 games and continued support of blu ray disc based games and movies.

I also expect the new PS4 hardware to support two hundred gigabyte blu ray discs as this will make it un-atractive for the digital only crowd to try and push a no disc based agenda.

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shadowscorpio
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:49:40 AM

Hmmm. May not happen but definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

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Aranha
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:09:26 PM
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I mean, I'm looking forward to digital distribution of games... in the distant future. I understand that Sony needs to prep for the nex gen/future, so they will present it to us, and as the years and gaming systems go by, they'll eventually get the digital distribution method down. I'm sure it'll be something Cloud-based, where you won't have to worry about losing your games and/or saves because your system crashes; they'll be stored on the Cloud servers, so all you'll need to do is purchase a new system, enter your credentials for verification of usage, and you're good to go.

Am I ready for that change? Not yet, not fully. The NGP will probably be a big step in that direction, aside from what they're already doing now with the mini games, games like WipeOut, and DLC on the PS3. But they realized that that is where technology is headed, probably where the competition is headed, and where the rest of the world is headed (Apple/iTunes does digital everything).

But in all this, I would like Sony to remember what got them there in the first place. I would like for Sony to keep in mind the train of thought that brought about the original PlayStation, and what followed with the PS2. There were ground-breaking games on both systems, games that catered to gamers. For the most part, Sony has provided that with the PS3, but it's been like the tides at sea in some areas. It's kind of like they're grasping at straws for the next big thing, and you can't blame 'em, when you have the weakest system this gen sell like it was crack, with something that appeared to be a gimmick, and pretty much took over for a bit. So I'm sure Sony's like "What else do people like that we don't know about? And how did we not know that such a simple gimmick could turn non-gamers into (at least) a casual gamer?" So for as successful as they've been this gen (and I believe Sony has been), it's probably baffled on so many levels about what would bring sure success in the next round. Sure they have top franchises, and Sony's been cranking out new ones, and they've got partner studios and devs that create exclusives, but then there's that X factor; they don't want to be thrown in for another loop again. The one thing that Sony is sure of, is a digital future. All I can say is, we'd better be ready.

The difficulty in presenting digital media, especially on a console, is the size of these games. Console games are much bigger than portable games. I mean, they're filling up some blu-rays and even doin' double-layer, so I'm sure that won't be a fun game to download. Our service providers aren't giving that kind of bandwidth, at least not on a mass public level, and anyone who is getting the bandwidth probably feels like they have a whole in their pocket, or must be on a ridiculous project for a high-end organization.

All in all, it seems as though an all-digital console system is not viable yet, but who knows? Technology takes leaps and bounds at times, usually after we've plateaud for awhile.

But fortunately, it seems Sony has made the PS3 powerful enough where they can build on what they have on it, for the next system, and hopefully not start in the red next time around.

Last edited by Aranha on 5/30/2011 11:21:31 PM

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BikerSaint
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:19:46 PM
Reply

IMO, both 3D & motion sensing will be the mainstream norm by the next 10 years, and I'm all for it.

But I don't want ever want to see physical media leave in my lifetime, it would put an end to my whole cart & disc based gaming collections as I know it today.

Oh, and I want all my future PS's to be B/C with all past PS's too, that should be a "#1 must"!!!!!!


As for the future, I want to see total augmented reality coming from our future numbered PS's.

Also, I hope to still be around to see the PS9 bare fruition, and made the very same exact way Sony perceived it to be, way back in the beginning of the PS2 era.

"I want that all-mighty powerful crystal sphere"!

Last edited by BikerSaint on 5/30/2011 11:26:16 PM

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Qubex
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:16:55 AM

BikerSaint, how do you qualify this? I am sure there are many people who are equally not interested in 3D or motion sensing. Actually for it is more motion sensing... I will firmly sit on my chubby buttocks and play games using my controller... I don't want to be wafting through the lounge doing a derivative of Tron ballet while trying to play my games...

Any person walking past the house and looking into my living room will think I have a serious issue... a serious mental issue that is...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Kiryu
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:46:03 PM
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PS3 is very loyal to their Fans.

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Fane1024
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:48:21 PM
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Alert: the Blog says full PSN service returns "this week".

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frylock25
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:52:54 PM

ha you got me by 2 minutes

Last edited by frylock25 on 5/30/2011 11:53:23 PM

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Fane1024
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:25:21 AM

That's why I only wrote one line. :P

I'm usually the one who gets ninja'd since I use the DS3 to "type".

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frylock25
Monday, May 30, 2011 @ 11:50:20 PM
Reply

posted by sony:

SONY AND SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT ANNOUNCE FULL RESTORATION OF PLAYSTATION®NETWORK SERVICES

Tokyo, May 31, 2011 – Sony Corporation and Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) announced today that Sony Network Entertainment International (SNEI, the company) will fully restore all PlayStation®Network services in the Americas, Europe/PAL territories and Asia, excluding Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea by the end of this week. The company will also resume Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity™ for PlayStation®3 (PS3®), PSP® (PlayStation®Portable), VAIO and other PCs. Details for Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea as well as the remaining services on Qriocity will be announced as they become available.

The company implemented considerable security enhancements to the network infrastructure, as well as conducted testing of the payment process and commerce functions. The first phase of PlayStation Network and Qriocity restoration began on May 15 in the Americas and Europe/PAL territories, followed by Japan and Asian countries and regions on May 28, when the company brought partial services back online. With this partial restoration users were able to access to some of the services such as online game play, account management, friend lists and chat functionality were restored. The full restoration of PlayStation Network as well as part of services to become available on Qriocity will include:

• Full functionality on PlayStation®Store
• In-game commerce
• Ability to redeem vouchers and codes
• Full functionality on Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity for PS3, PSP, VAIO and
other PCs
• Full functionality on Media Go

Customers will be able to purchase and download games and video content from the PlayStation®Store on PS3 or PSP. In addition, consumers will have full access to Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity through PS3, PSP, VAIO and other PC’s. Service restoration of Video on Demand powered by Qriocity™ and Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity for a variety of network-enabled Sony devices will be announced later.

“We have been conducting additional testing and further security verification of our commerce functions in order to bring the PlayStation Network completely back online so that our fans can again enjoy the first class entertainment experience they have come to love,” said Kazuo Hirai, Executive Deputy President, Sony Corporation. “We appreciate the patience and support shown during this time.”

The company will be offering customers a “Welcome Back” package of services and premium content to all registered PlayStation Network* and Qriocity account services. The details of this program will continue to be detailed regionally.

* Only available for those countries with access to PlayStation®Store.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:19:31 AM
Reply

PS4.

Physical media - BluRay, 33GB per layer, multi-layer (not just dual) supported.
CPU - PowerPC/Cell Fanily, including SPUs for backwards compatibility
GPU - nVidia latest(ish) design
HDD standard, flash media supported also.

Will be backwards compatible with PS3, will build on PS3, PSP and PSN along with PSP2 (not gonna be called Vita).

Will be capable of 100% 1080p gaming, 3D and possibly even real time ray tracing at 720p or better.

Will cost $500 or less at launch.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:31:13 AM

I think Pachter called "Vita" the dumbest name ever, lol

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Qubex
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:27:46 AM

Highlander I am going to go out on a limb here... we will see who is right, so an interesting challenge ahead

PS4:-

CPU - PowerPC Cell (16 core)
GPU - nVidia enhance GPU - with custom feature set (including dedicated Physics and Tessilation engines)
RAM - 2 or 4gig of ram - unified
OS - GameOS enhanced with Google Chrome integration
USB - USB3.0 ports (no Thunderbolt)
BT - Bluetooth 2.1
WiFi - of course
HDMI - enhanced, new version (for 3D or new features as required)
Audio - Optical out (+ usual multimedia cable output)
HD - 320 or 500GB
OD - BluRay drive able to read 400GB disks (future proof)

* NO PS3 backward compatibility
* NO LINUX
* NO 5-1 memory card reader

There is my take. Highlander we are agree in principle it is likely enhanced versions of the CELL and nVidia GPU will be used... however, as I believe there will be no backward compatibility, the hardware may be completely different...

Dark Horse on the Horizon - Apple will release their own games console!!!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 5/31/2011 1:28:15 AM

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Qubex
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:29:03 AM

"Vita?" - an awful name - sounds like something I would by from the chemist!

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Cesar_ser_4
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:35:41 AM

I don't know much about electronics specs. But if that is just an upgraded list of what the ps3 already has then yes go for it, because it doesn't make sense that they build a new exotic platform, if no third party dev is going to want to take advantage of it. I've been thinking, since the xbox has an option to install the game onto the console to play it. Imagine if the ps3 had an SSD option or bay if I may along with the standard HDD, that lets you install your videogames onto it?, that would be nice. Not make it a standard feature, rather more of an upgrade or a separate sku.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:32:48 PM

Qubex,

I think we largely agree on the potential PS4 configuration.

If they go for a PowerPC architecture like Power7 and includes some SPUs, or alternately use the PowerXCell8xi architecture, then the CPU will be capable of emulating Cell at the drop of a hat. By using an nvidia designed GPU, they keep nit in the family. From that point of view, maintaining PS3 compatibility would be a breeze. I don't think that they will sacrifice PS3 compatibility simply because evolving the design and keeping the same families of CPU/GPU helps developers use what they already know, and gives the console a huge back catalog of games to run with. PS1 backwards compatibility is backed into the PlayStation Suite spec, so I can only imagine it will be there, as will the potential for PSP emulation. I doubt we'll see full PS2 emulation, although with a new GPU, you never know.

Other than that the only thing I think we would differ on is a flash media reader. I think that the PS4 will have whatever flash reader sockets the NGP eventually features.

Part of the reason I believe we will see PS3 compatibility in the box is Home. Without backwards compatibility, Sony would have to re-implement the entire Home architecture, and I don't see that investment coming. home is a completely virtualised platform, and like PSN and the PlayStation Store, will remain to provide continuity. Whatever form the PS4 takes, it will work with this infrastructure, including Home.

There will be no Linux capability and the system security will incorporate all the lessons learned from PSP and PS3.

Personally, I think we will see fully encrypted downloadable content and a custom decryption engine built into the system that provides crypto services in real time. I also have a feeling that the motherboard will be designed to detect tampering and silently indicate when it has been tampered with. I expect that the system software will be similarly protected. I don't see Sony taking chances again. In fact I think that if they can do it in a way that will not break the bank, they may use individualized encryption and signing to protect all PSN data traffic adding an additional hurdle for anyone trying to break in.

If Sony follows the normal pattern of increasing things at least 8-fold, the system memory will be 2GB as will video (though that seems excessive). So I agree with you in that we'll see 2-4GB of memory probably 4GB. And as you suggest it will either be two separate pools of 2GB, or a single 4GB unified pool that is partitioned as need be.

The HDMI will be at least 1.4 in hardware, the PS3 has 1.3 hardware but uses software to emulate a v1.4 HDMI mode for 3D. I haven't looks at the HDMI specs recently, but I'd guess that whatever the current revision is (at the time) will be what goes into the PS4.

BluRay has a higher capacity variant that allows 100GB on a three layer disc which is, on it's own, sufficient for 1080p3D. BluRay is originally designed for multi-layer discs, so even if they do not increase the density of data per layer, I think that we will see the ability to use more than triple layer discs. I don't know whether it will mean 400GB Bluray, unless there is a big jump in TV resolution, that won't be needed, be it will certainly mean that available capacity on a bluray will at minimum double compared to today.

Someone mentioned an SSD option bay. If the system features a SATA drive bay - as PS3 currently does, then all that is required is an SSD in the appropriate form factor. No need for a special bay.

On thing I want Sony to pay particular attention to is the thermal paste, even if it means spending another $10 per unit, they need to use very long life thermal paste to avoid premature failures.

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Fane1024
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:36:45 PM

Yes, please. Go crazy with the heat-dissipation tech. Better we have to spend a little more to buy the PS4 than having to spend a lot more on repairs should we experience YLOD/RROD-type crashes.

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Bloodysilence19
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:41:31 AM
Reply

the only thing i want sony to do in the ps4 mainly is to keep it under 600 dollars. i didn't mind paying 600 dollar price tag for the ps3 but it was still little overprice for a console game. especially since it lacked a good gpu which of course cell made up for the graphic processing, but still though its still nice to have decent gpu. cpu was perfect the cell does what Sony said it could do, but you still need to upgrade the cpu with either newer cpus out or upgrade the cell to make things even better in ps4. other than that im fine what ever Sony feels like putting in it, o dont put the os as feats Sony community doesn't need another hacking debacle again.

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Fane1024
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:29:44 AM

As Highlander said, the GPU was fine. It would have been cutting-edge had the PS3 launched in Spring-Summer 06 as initially projected.



Last edited by Fane1024 on 5/31/2011 1:30:48 AM

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Bloodysilence19
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:24:10 AM

gpu wouldn't of been cutting edge at all if the ps3 was release early. gpu was compared to the gforce 7 series which were ok cards i know i had the 7800 gtx in my old comp. ps3 gpu is nothing compared to the gpu in the 360. the cell was put in for mainly the lack of processing power of the gpu. you think games like uncharted or kz would look as good if it was just running mainly off the gpu, no way, the cell helped big time. why have great cpu but than not have great gpu if you play vg it would make no sense.

Last edited by Bloodysilence19 on 5/31/2011 3:25:31 AM

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___________
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 9:42:08 AM

why have a great GPU and CPU if your going to have so little RAM?
gotta balance everything out.
sony really hurt themselves this gen, adding bluray into the ps3 was the reason it was so expensive, and was delayed so many times.
they would of been better off researching updated DVD tech or something along those lines.
makes me wonder if they will make a new medium for the ps4, or if they will stick with what they have for the first time.
ps1 ushered in disks, ps2 ushered in DVDs, ps3 ushered in bluray, so what will ps4 usher in?
hollowvid?
;)

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Bloodysilence19
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:19:02 PM

@_______________
the ram in the ps4 need needs to be at least 1gb that's really all you will need.
now what your saying about the blu ray yes that was a main reason why the ps3 cost a lot, but its cause it was new tech. look apple products their new tech every year costs your soul just to buy what their selling. if Sony would of gone with a dvd format you wouldn't have great games like gow3 or kz without having to switch billions of disc. blu ray will still be used in the ps4 guaranteed that why bring out a new disc format if blu ray is already doing great now and its cheaper.

Last edited by Bloodysilence19 on 5/31/2011 12:20:27 PM

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:17:56 PM

@BloodySilence,

The comparison between the GPUs in the 360 and Ps3 is far, far closer than you think. The major differences come in the eDRAM used to provide free FSAA at lower resolutions, and the high range dynamic lighting support in hardware. The RSX is not a performance slouch, it simply performs in different ways to the GPU in the 360. Fanboy preference aside, computationally, the RSX is reasonably powerful. There's no reason to bring the ATI/nVidia GPU war into this..there's plenty of potential for fanboy war over consoles as it is.

@Anonymous Cowherd,

BluRay was absolutely required for HD gaming. Graphics at 6 times the resolution of 480p require 6 times the storage capacity. DVD was already tapped out with the PS2, so BluRay was a logical and necessary step.

Regarding memory, had Sony doubled the XDR memory, they'd have lost another $50 or so per unit selling them. Switching to commodity DDR2 memory wouldn't have helped much since it would have required re-engineering the system with a larger processor cache to make up for the memory's lack of speed. Or did you forget how XDR is very much faster than DDR-2.

My god, where we are 5 years down the line and still people complain about the same bogus points. How sad.

Last edited by Highlander on 5/31/2011 1:22:57 PM

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Bloodysilence19
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:03:19 PM

@Hl
ps3 gpu lacks were it matters. rsx like i said before you can look it up it was compared to nividas 7 series which ok cards but they weren't great. rsx is powerful but not as powerful as it should of been. i dont care who makes the gpu for both consoles im just saying overall the 360 xenos is better than rsx it outperforms where it matters for games. the cell helps a lot with the rsx, without the cell games like uc, kz, or gow3 wouldn't be as great looking if it was just running off the rsx mainly.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 6:14:29 PM

I looked it up. The only meaningful benchmarks I can find for either RSX or Xenos come in the form of benchmarks of their PC counterparts. When it comes down to it, the RSX performs better than a 7800GTX according to nVidia, Xenos is a development of the R520 core with some R600 elements, so it's a bit like a Radeon X1900 with some HD2900 thrown in. Either wayt, if you look at the benchmarks (at least the ones I found) the 7800GTX doesn't stand up badly at all compared to either of those ATI products. Of course neither of them has the 10MB of eDRAM, so neither of them can run the synthetic benchmarks that Xenos can using the eDRAM to boost it's fill rates under benchmarking...

Really and truly, there is not a lot to pick between them. RSX is rated at 400GFLOPS, Xenos is rated at about 240GFLOPS. But Xenos' performance was initially easier to unlock. I did find some performance numbers based on the theoretical performance of the hardware in each case...RSX has a considerably better texel fill rate, renders more pixels per second and can manage 30 billion more dot products per second that Xenos. Thanks to the dedicated hardware AA and eDRAM, Xenos has nearly double the anti-aliasing performance. Other than that, in pure computational terms the RSX is a beast.

As an example of the differences, the shader units on the RSX are capable of 27 Floating point operations per second - each, the units on Xenos are capable of 10 floating point operations per second. Xenos is a larger array of simpler units. RSX is a smaller array of more complex units. Each is programmed differently. Someone who works with xenos at a low level is not going to favor the RSX architecture at all, and vice versa. People coming to it from a PC point of view will prefer Xenos because it directly caters to Direct X9 and Shader model 3, not to mention the low cost AA. But, the RSX has more performance at it's disposal. Sound familiar...?

So the thing is that if you don't invest the time to learn the architecture, you will not get the best from it. The more straightforward architecture of Xenos makes it easier to approach, but ultimately it has a lower ceiling than RSX. You can see this in the games. PS3 exclusives where the Cell and RSX are being used well look ridiculous, they exceed what the 360 can do because there is more power under the hood. However, the 360 appeared better at first because it was easier to get the most out of.

If you want a long product life, you want a platform that developers can manipulate and learn and use in ways you didn't anticipate. You want the developers to still be finding new ways to use the hardware 6 years into the life of the product. You don't want them running up against the performance ceiling inside 2 years. It's a total difference in philosophy.


Last edited by Highlander on 5/31/2011 6:20:15 PM

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Zorigo
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:58:12 AM
Reply

Don't forgt your fans.
True words if sony wants to stay as good as they are now

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___________
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 4:17:48 AM
Reply

if this was M$ or ninty id be doing the same.
but not sony.
they know there fans, and am dedicated to proper games.
not to say they wont explore other avenues, but it will never be at the expense of proper games.
M$ and ninty are only interested in the casual crowd, sony on the other hand are interested in both and i cant see that ever changing!

while on the subject of next gen systems could these be the specs for project cafe?
http://www.gamertagradio.com/new/2011/05/possible-wii2-specs-revealed/
interesting...........

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zork
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 4:51:17 AM
Reply

Sony needs to be practical, and make sure there next system is more developer friendly, and to make sure that they have the dev kits day one.

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RadioHeader
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:29:10 AM
Reply

Dear micro$oft, make an xbox with fans.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:45:59 AM
Reply

sony needs to make sure their system is more capable than the next ms console at everything, and they need to make it user friendly enough that most developers can tap its potential instead of a select few.

they need to make at reasonable pricepoint so they do not have a situauation where over half of the videogame market bolts from its consoles and does not look back.

they need to figure out how to sell consoles again in na. they will never get back on top struggling in na like they are. i saw headlines up on cvg and the sixthaxis yesterday stating the 360 has in fact extended its worldwide lead over the ps3 which depressed me. apparently na plus the uk trumps whatever advantage sony has in the remaining world.

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Highlander
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:37:46 PM

You know, you cannot make a console hugely powerful and maintain a reasonable pricepoint so easily. As for selling in the NA market, I don't know how you sell a better product to people so dumb or helplessly addicted to a product that they'll buy three or four (or more) replacements for their faulty product before trying a competitor's offering. Frankly if people are willing to endure the kind of failure rates that Xbox360 enjoyed for at least 3 years, they will endure pretty much anything, and no amount of slick marketing or great products elsewhere will budge them.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:51:57 AM
Reply

I want the next ps to be a *real* generation jump, not just "better graphics". I want enough cpu power to enable the game designers to create a truly living'n'breathing open world game environment, with surplus power to run enough several parallel threads to keep a good share of the entire world alive and not just random activity in the players immediate surroundings.
*that* will bring us one step further to the "next generation games".


Last edited by Beamboom on 5/31/2011 5:53:04 AM

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Bjorn77
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 8:32:08 AM
Reply

I don't worry about it at all, at least not for the upcoming generation consoles. I trult belief that buying games on-line directly from the PSN store is something that will be possible, but I doubt the PS4 will lack a cd tray and I doubt game companies will stop printing cd's in the near future.

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Fane1024
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 3:42:23 PM

Games haven't been on CDs since the early days of the PS2.

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kingjose
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 8:42:19 AM
Reply

To much technology not enough money. If they want ppl to buy the npg u should remote play with the ps3 n ps4 I thought u could do that with the ps3 n psp now but it says its not compatible y get it if I can't play me ps3 thru my psp and I hope they don't forget about us single player gamers everytime I buy a game I look for a one player story mode I hate the multi player games cause of cheaters I don't use specia turbo controllers I think that's cheating so that's y I play one player games cause cheaters screwed it up for me

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Underdog15
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 9:32:27 AM

That is a large avatar. lol

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:45:33 PM

And you're going to change it. Not only is it too big, we don't allow blatant drug promotion.

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Cole
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 12:34:49 PM
Reply

Personally I think that game developers and console makers should only listen to their fans to a certain extent. As gamers we know what we want from our games and hardware but we know nothing about the technical side.In other words ,which of our suggestions are technically feasible and which aren't. It's up to the devs and console makers to ultimately balance our wants with what they can actually do.

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Keeng
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:24:31 PM
Reply

It's almost impossible to make a list of things we want out of a PS4 this early considering that this generation has gotten better and better virtually every year. I mean, there's been enough announced for PS3 for the next two years that it would steal all the thunder of a PS4 right now. If Sony announced PS4 with full specs and a release date at this year's E3, would you suddenly not want Uncharted 3, inFamous 2, or Resistance 3 anymore? Exactly.

One thing that we should expect--no, DEMAND is backwards compatibility for downloadable games and trophies. For the former, if we don't have backwards compatibility for PSN titles, PS4 will launch with a practically empty store. There are entire franchises which have spawned out of the PS Store. What happens to companies like Housemarque, Q-Games, and Telltale if their catalog of fantastic titles becomes essentially inaccessible two years from now? It would also render our PSN accounts useless for anything but playing launch titles online for the first six months of the PS4's life.
It frightens me that I hear so few people demanding this from the next generation of consoles.

With respect to the latter, I just think it would suck if trophies stopped in less than two years.

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Crabba
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 1:50:41 PM
Reply

Well said Ben. I also hope they learned their lesson from the mistakes made on the PS3 like more balanced system specs, meaning more system/video RAM (256/256 was shockingly low even on release day) and better third party support.

Sony lost an incalculable amount this gen by being both superior (exclusives) and inferior (bad multiplatforms) at the same time instead of clearly superior in every way. If you're going to be the more expensive platform, you have to be clearly superior one as well.

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Akuma07
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 5:46:27 PM
Reply

I don't think they should make the next console based on their fans.

If they did that for the PS3, then we wouldn't have such an awesome machine.

They pushed the envelope with the PS3, and now we are seeing awesome results because of that, even though they lost money for years.

I want Sony to completely push the envelope once again, in fact, i want them to go further this time, create something truly innovative and amazing Sony!!!! I dont care how much it costs, or how many features it haa, i will be there!

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Lairfan
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 @ 9:37:02 PM
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I'm just hoping they keep up this tradition of great and unique exclusives with excellent single player campaigns (some with great multiplayers), and very advanced tech in their consoles. As long as they can evolve their tech and strategy without taking those things away then I think I'll be good.

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unityhd
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 3:09:48 AM
Reply

SONY SHOULD MAKE THE PS4 WITH THE ULTIMATE POWER ! THE WAY A SONY PRODUCT SHOULD BE ...REGARDLESS OF THE PAST HISTORY WITH THE PS3 , ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAKE IT A TOTAL OPEN PLATFORM ! MEANING IT SHOULD BE BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL PAST CONSOLES PS 1, 2 ,3 FIRST OF ALL , HAVE THE ABILITY TO INSTALL ANOTHER OS OF YOUR CHOISE ! (WINDOWS) OR MAC OS ! MAKE IT A DAM GOOD STANDARD PC FOR A CHANGE!! WORK WITH INTEL JUST LIKE MAC DID ! AND BEST OF ALL FOCUS ON THE GAMING PLATFORM ...IF SONY ALLOWS CONSUMERS DO WHAT THEY WANT ON THEIR DEVICES NONE OF THIS HACKING WOULD HAVE STARTED ! THE PC WORLD IS THE KING OF HACKS .... BUT PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS BUYING PC MOTHER BOARDS AND UPGRADING THERE MACHINES AND YOU DON'T SEE THE PC INDUSTRY SUFFERING ! MAKE A SYSTEM THAT CAN DO IT ALL , FROM GAMING TO YOUR TOTALLY INTERNET FULL EXPERIENCE.. GIVE THE PEOPLE THE CONSUMER THE TOTAL EXPERIENCE OF OWNING A ULTIMATE CONSOLE THAT CAN DO IT ALL ...IF IT GOING TO BE NEXT GEN AND IT'S SONY'S 4TH CONSOLE MAKE IT WITH BUILT IN LTE ...I DON'T KNOW WHAT SONY IS THINKING BUT IF I WAS THE ONE IN CHARGE I'LL MAKE A CONSOLE THE WAY THE PEOPLE WANT IT AND EXPECT IT ! NEXT GEN NEEDS IT ALL FROM THE GRAPHICS TO YOU FULL FIREFOX ENTERTAINMENT SONY GET ON THE PAGE OF MAKING SOMETHING AWESOME....AND HIRE THE GEOHOT KID IF YOUR WORRIED ABOUT SECURITY, THE KID IS A GENIUS IF HE CAN JAILBREAK IT IM SURE HE CAN LOCK IT WHERE ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO UNLOCK ...THE KID HAS HELPED MILLIONS WITH THE I PHONE AND LOOK HOW FAST IT FLY'S OUT THE SELF'S , APPLE MAY COMPLAIN THAT THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY OFF THE APPS BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROFIT THEY HAD MADE OF THE PHONE ALONE IT'S CRAZY ! AND THEY CAN MAKE 5 6 AND 7 AND THERE NEXT I PHONE STILL WILL MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS JUST THE DEVICE ALONE! SO WIT THAT IN MIND SONY MAKE 2 VERSIONS STRICTLY GAMING LOW COST AND A ULTIMATE VERSION PEOPLE WILL PAY THE PRICE ! PEOPLE BUY IMACS AND IBOOKS ALL THE TIME AND THERE WAY OVER THE $2,000 PRICE AND THATS A LAPTOP ALONE! IF IT'S WORTH IT PEOPLE WILL BUY IT ! 2 VERSIONS IS ALL YOU NEED STOP MAKING MULTIPLE VERSION THATS WHERE YOU BUYS ARE SPENDING THE MONEY ON PS3 IF IT WAS ONLY 2 VERSIONS OF THE CONSOLE YOU GUYS WOULD HAVE SAVED MILLIONS A STANDARD VERSION 299.99 AND A ULTIMATE VERSION BACKWARDS COMPATABLE, OTHER OS OPTION FOR LINUX AND EVERYTHING $1299.99 YOU GUYS ARE THE ELECTRONICS GIANT LEARN FROM THE PEOPLE LISTEN FOR A CHANGE !

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Cabalavatar1
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 11:05:08 AM
Reply

I want to tip my hat to Ben. Your worry is also my worry. I don't care about online gaming; I don't care much about motion-sensing (though I bought a PS Move). I want story, campaign. I want my videogames to be like a novel in which I'm actively playing as the protagonist(s). Like you, this is why I loved _Heavy Rain_ and _L.A. Noire_ so much! It's why I love Fallout, Mass Effect, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clack, and God of War. These are the games that make me feel immersed in the story, that I'm playing a movie (the first two being the prime examples of this experience).
I want more of that! not some online multiplayer with immature overly competitive people.

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eljefemus
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 1:43:48 PM
Reply

I love the PS3, it is a remarkably powerful machine. However, I will generally choose FPS games for the Xbox 360 due to the fact that the Playstation controller blows. It is not ergonomically designed, it is uncomfortable for extended gaming and in my honest opinion needs a complete refresh. The pictures that I saw of the boomerang shaped controller would be a much better option. I have owned the PS, the PS2 and now the PS3 and I can't believe that Sony has not updated the controller. It is time to move on Sony.

Last edited by eljefemus on 6/2/2011 1:45:04 PM

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Ather
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 2:56:59 PM
Reply

Digital downlaod sucks. You have a hard derive crash, you lose it all. You change systems, gone. Myabe there's achance to redownload, but a lot of places make you repay.

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SonyPuppy
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 3:40:42 PM
Reply

<Standing Ovation> I'm glad someone is telling Sony this. They need to understand we aren't all spending our lives online or with 20 friends over, alot of the time we fire up the console solo and they need to continue serving us as well as the social gamers.

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Joz
Thursday, June 02, 2011 @ 3:58:09 PM
Reply

I fear that if Sony does go the route of all digital distribution of the games in the next Playstation, and if other gaming console companies do the same, it could potentially hurt the video game industry. Mainly because I think the majority of gamers still prefer to actually have the physical copies of the games they own.

What I would like in the next Playstation, is to be able to load around 5 games into the Playstation, so I don't always have to keep getting up and switching between my favorite games... That would be amazing..!

Also, don't forget about two player splitscreen modes. Like everyone else is saying, we all don't like playing online all the time. Does Sony actually ever visit this site? I hope so...

Last edited by Joz on 6/2/2011 4:00:12 PM

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moss12
Friday, June 03, 2011 @ 7:41:20 PM
Reply

I have owned the ps move since day one and I have used it maybe 10 times. The only game I play on the move is Tumble,and I haven't played it in months

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