SCEE Boss On Wii U And Nintendo Using PS3 Footage

Underdog15
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 2:32:02 PM
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"But that’s why I could never do that demanding job; it requires a whole lot of tact and political common sense. So good on ya, House."

haha, me too Ben! I have a hard time backing down from a good competitive disagreement! Why, just yesterday I almost got tossed for arguing about how I was safe when I tried to steal 3rd! (I was SO totally safe, by the way!!! The 3rd base ump called me safe then the home plate ump over-ruled him! WTF, MAN!!!! I walked up to the home plate ump and asked him things like if he knew the difference between a foot and a knee, and why we even bother paying for another ump if he's gonna power trip his way into the only way he knows how to make a difference in a sporting event since based on his belly, he'd never get the chance to make a difference as an athlete... yeah... don't know why he didn't toss me, now that I think about it. Nice guy, I guess. lol)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/13/2011 2:34:12 PM

8 up, 2 down

PANICinc
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 2:33:45 PM
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Sony is a Class Act company.
'Nuf said.

12 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:01:41 PM

they can be, but jack trenton has made some really crass comments in the past. almost as bad as when greenburg boasted that halo3 had outsold all of sony's exclusives combined.

sony should keep a close eye on nintendo, but should mainly focus on what ms is doing. that's their biggest competior by far. until nintendo prooves they can get core gamers, they really aren't a threat to sony in the console realm.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 6/13/2011 3:02:45 PM

3 up, 8 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 6:49:36 PM

Jack isn't that bad with stuff like this, but Aaron Greenburg on the other hand..

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 7:08:05 PM

What has Jack said that is even close to being on par with the asinine comments that routinely come out of Greenburg's bloated mouth? Where's the proof? Prove Jack has said things "almost as bad a Greenburg" otherwise stop with the slander.

7 up, 2 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 8:06:23 PM

Indeed Jawk, I personally never seen Jack say anything bad.

4 up, 1 down

frylock25
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 6:28:02 AM

slander is verbal, writing it is libel

2 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 4:10:40 PM

jack called the 3ds nothing more than a baby sitting tool, and said no self respecting 20 yr old would be cuaght dead with one. pretty arrogant comments on his part, and almost greeburg like.

if you can find a ps3 that's been sitting on store shelves more than 5 minutes i'll give you $1200 bucks is another famous arrogant qoute of his. not nearly as bad as the first one but showed arrogance and a real aloofness to actual situation on the ground regarding ps3's at the time. they weren't selling.

1 up, 1 down

faraga
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 2:53:36 PM
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I understand his reaction, he probably realizes that the WiiU is a more powerful device than the PS3, but still they use PS3 gameplay to showcase what it is capable to do. It's almost as if Nintendo says that the PS3 produces comparable graphics to a next (8th) generation console. That is flattering indeed.

2 up, 12 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 2:57:51 PM

We haven't seen anything yet to validate it will be more powerful and have the same graphics, I have doubts it will in my opinion, this direction doesn't seem good for Nintendo to grab the Hardcore gamers.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 6/13/2011 2:58:28 PM

19 up, 0 down

vicious54
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:05:23 PM

I agree with Clamedeus. Without specs no one really knows how powerful the Wii U will be. However, if the console can truly run full 1080P with the graphics of the PS3 and Xbox 360 then it would have to be powerful.

8 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:31:30 PM

I think it's safe to assume that the Wii U will enjoy only some, but not all, technical advantages over PS3.
For one, I doubt Nintendo will implement a media disk on par with a BD, let alone a HDD for mass storage.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 6/13/2011 3:32:06 PM

5 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:43:50 PM

Temjin, the disk will be a gimped BluRay without movie playback - rather like their DVD based systems were gimped DVDs.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/13/2011 3:44:02 PM

7 up, 1 down

cLoudou
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 7:40:58 PM

It doesn't matter if will be more powerful, no hardcore gamer would want to play with those crappy ass controllers, IMO.

5 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 8:13:10 PM

I'd consider myself a core gamer and I would play games with the Wii U controller.

5 up, 4 down

Deathb4Dishonor
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:52:59 AM

Nothing about the WiiU has me even remotely interested in it... I think i'll stick to my PS3 thank you

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:40:56 PM
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the analyst in me says this. If Nintendo used PS3 and 360 footage from third parties as representative of what to expect from WiiHD - as has been stated. Then Nintendo really only expect to catch up with PS3 & 360, rather than exceed them. In which case, why bother?

9 up, 1 down

Excelsior1
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 3:51:12 PM

if they don't surpass them i won't bother. i do have a strong feeling it will be more powerful and enjoy some advantages over the ps3.

5 up, 4 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 7:02:09 PM

"In which case, why bother?"

Because this Nintendo fan would like to see Link and Samus in 1080p HD.

6 up, 1 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 8:56:46 PM

I have some doubts about that Excelsior, I heard this same thing with the Wii before it released. "The Wii is going to be more powerful than the PS3 and the 360." But where did that happen? The direction it's going in isn't helping it's case.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:04:27 PM

Who told you that Clamedeus? Who ever did was making stuff up because I heard it right out of Miyamoto's mouth that he wasn't trying to surpass the Ps3 or 360 with the Wii. Graphics and processing power wasn't his goal. Old fashioned family fun was his goal. One they achieved.

3 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:13:09 PM

It was on the Internet, and a bunch of people where I live that was getting the Wii, a friend of mine heard it from someone as well. I'm not sure who the person was or what position he's in either. It was every where around here.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:23:25 PM

Yea....I won't call them liars but they had their info wrong. Nintendo never said such a thing. I remember very well too because I was more excited about the Wii than the PS3($600 price tag turned me off initially) and followed the news closely leading up to it's announcement.

0 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:31:42 PM

Very wrong about the info, I've even called them out on it, they didn't believe me until it actually released. But something about this Wii U doesn't seem right. Why go this direction if they are supposedly going for the Hardcore?

Maybe later they will go for them? I'm not sure, if they were going for the hardcore straight out of the gate this doesn't make sense, maybe something else is being hidden or being saved for last.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:15:21 PM

Not sure. I think it remains to be seen what impact this will have once it's released. I know this core gamer is excited for it. I think PorkChopGamer brought up a nice point about how this could work pretty well with games like L.A. Noire. I can already imagine how this will impact games like Zelda. The two games on DS are two of my favorite Zelda games of all time and half the reason is because of how they incorporated the stylus with in puzzle solving and combat. One example I can think of, no more opening a menu to look at your dungeon maps. They can be on the screen.

Also, the U is just the controller right? They do have some new hardware on the way don't they to accompany it? I didn't get to watch their whole presentation. Just the preview video showing all the clips. So I am ignorant to that info.

Last edited by Jawknee on 6/13/2011 11:16:20 PM

0 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 12:44:32 AM

Jawk, I don't know if they did show a console, all I seen was the controller tablet thing, didn't watch much of it though, I wasn't interested about it, Maybe when they release some stuff that will pique my interest a bit more I'll probably get one.

1 up, 0 down

Sancho
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 6:38:04 AM

No Jawknee nintendo didn't show the console at all. It was a little white box under the TV that was never pointed to or shown and all HD clips were either put together just for show or were compiled of PS3/360 footage. All tech demo's where cutesy little mini games. So you'll have to wait for TGS or next E3 to hear any real news on the console. The whole show for N was about the 3DS and the Tablet controller.

Last edited by Sancho on 6/14/2011 6:38:41 AM

2 up, 0 down

Cheroqui
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 4:05:53 PM
Reply

Well Reggie didn't get nasty or do any heavy slick talk when asked about his thoughts on Sony Move taking a page from the Wii so...

5 up, 5 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:18:41 PM

That's because Move doesn't take a page from Wii, or a chapter, or a verse or anything.

4 up, 5 down

Underdog15
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 8:11:53 AM

Highlander's right. Completely different tech. Aside from that, each tech got to where they are via completely different routes. The only thing they have in common is having to move your arms around.

Kinect on the other hand...

3 up, 1 down

DjEezzy
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 4:07:30 PM
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I think the Wii U looks pretty cool. I don't think it'll beat the ps3 by any means. It seems to me that it's a different machine all together. One that is targeting a different audience. What audience??? Not really sure yet. They kind of pulled a microsoft and said "We want to target the the Core audience but look at what this cute little camera can do!!!" LOL. I guess it's a wait and see for me. I love nintendo and still really enjoy their first party games immensely. Plus it's something that my kids can play when they get a little older. I just needs the great games. Those my friend will define the Wii U. Hope they created something awesome... I guess we'll see.

6 up, 0 down

vicious54
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 4:10:24 PM
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Looking at the controller, it will make a great steering wheel with the right attachment. Maybe they will use the same footage as the PS3 and PSP to show the second screen as the rear view mirror:)

Last edited by vicious54 on 6/13/2011 4:11:38 PM

1 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 4:23:10 PM
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I think the 3rd party devs deserve some blame in this too.

But Nintendo should've been smart enough to include a small "ps3/360 footage" text in the corner of those vids. Better than getting caught after.

Still it also shows that aside from 3rd party ports the Wii U doesn't have much else...

4 up, 1 down

Excelsior1
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 4:38:04 PM
Reply

there is an article on cvg stating the wii u is at least 50% more powerful than the ps3/360. developers are apparently surprised at the power they are dealing with.

2 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 5:25:46 PM

The problem with that is the same problem PS3 faces with 360, if Wii I is the most powerful it still will only get identical experiences with multiplats. There won't be many 3rd party exclusives if any, and the 1st party games don't aim for advancement in any category. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, they will all pretty much stay the same no matter the hardware. Don't forget the demographic they are after.

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:21:38 PM

The rated speed of the CPU in the WiiU - according to the rumored specification/configuration is approximately on par with the CellBE. The GPU is about 3 times faster in terms of floating point operations. Since 90% of multi-platform developers don't do much with the SPUs and therefore depend on a single dual issue PowerPC core and the RSX to do their heavy lifting, it's not surprising that they'd find a quad core (each core is dual issue) combined with a modern GPU to be faster. What's surprising is that they assess it as being only 50% more powerful than the PS3 - after 6 years (by the time the WiiU launches)

2 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:08:17 PM

Also, 150% means next to nothing in terms of computation. It's well within the margin of efficient vs. inefficient programming.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/13/2011 10:08:39 PM

0 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:06:46 AM

@Highlander
If that is all Nintendo needs to do to the hardware so that third-party developers can make games that, with relative ease, output at 1080p and 60fps, does Nintendo really need their hardware to do much more?

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:28:43 AM

Simcoe, I never said it did have to do more. If you read my comments on the WiiU, you'll see I've consistently pointed out that it will be faster than PS3 or 360. That's not in doubt.

My problems with Nintendo and their WiiU have nothing to do with the apparent specification. My problems include the name, the controller and the near complete absence of the WiiU from it's own unveiling - even including the showing of representative view from other consoles.

1 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 1:21:01 PM

My comment was more of a discussion in response to your hardware spec. comment and especially "What's surprising is that they assess it as being only 50% more powerful than the PS3 - after 6 years".

What I was getting at is how much more powerful than a PS3 does the Wii U hardware need to be. I have no doubts that it would only take hardware 50% more powerful than the PS3 to achieve a system where developers could easily push out content at 1080p and 60fps.

With regards to the second part of your comment, I too also think they should have put more time in to the name. I happen to think the controller is interesting and can see uses for it in many games (ie. as a map for sandbox and driving games), ultimately it will be developers who think up ways to use it just like Sony has been with the Move. Finally, I wouldn't be surprised (since it's still more than a year away) that there are some aspects of the main hardware that haven't been finalized yet including, but not limited to the design of the case. I do remember the PS3 having somethings changed between E3 2005 and E3 2006.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 4:40:26 PM

Well, once you're rendering at 1080p, you're kind of in the best position - resolution wise. But of course you can always add more effects and more filtering and anti-aliasing for increased visual fidelity. So, although there is probably an upper limit somewhere, I don't think we're in danger of hitting it just yet. In other words, even with the WiiU being more powerful than the PS3, it's still viable to add more power - and use it.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/14/2011 4:40:49 PM

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 5:45:40 PM
Reply

Ninty plans to counter this by releasing a lot of games that have one player require the single working gigantic controller and the others use the wiimote. I just don't see it working out though. Most family time gaming kind of petered out and collected dust.

4 up, 1 down

Oyashiro
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 8:47:09 PM

Think of the fights that will break out when children play it. They are all going to want to use that WiiU controller.

My god... I shudder to think what if my two nephews had that...

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 6:59:48 PM
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"The only thing I’ve got to say is mimicry is the highest form of flattery."

LOL! Reggie from Nintendo said the same thing about Sony when they announced Move. So I guess they're even.

6 up, 0 down

Qubex
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:13:31 PM

Lol Jawk...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:22:44 PM

Trouble is, Move doesn't imitate the Wii.

3 up, 5 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:01:40 PM

It does when it comes to FPS's. And it doesn't even do it as well as Metroid Prime.

4 up, 3 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:58:42 PM

No, it doesn't 'imitate' Wii in any way. Sorry Jawknee, but technologically speaking, the Move and the Wii are poles apart, the only 'imitation' is in the eye of the beholder.

3 up, 5 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:19:01 PM

It does. Have you played Killzone 3 with Move and Metroid Prime on the Wii? It's the exact same idea and concept only Metroid controls a lot better.

I think the Move is great and I don't believe Sony ripped Nintendo off but you can't say they aren't similar concepts only the Move is more advance in a lot more ways.

Last edited by Jawknee on 6/13/2011 11:19:36 PM

4 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 8:15:32 AM

To be fair, Sony dabbled in motion gaming first about a decade ago. If tech doesn't matter, then...

2 up, 2 down

dirdiggler
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 7:21:24 PM
Reply

I don't understand this move by nintendo, I love the staple games but I can never seem to warrent a purchase of the wii nor this new debacle of a machine for just a few games. They really expect alot from there hardcore fans to support the upgrade vs quality of games. What this gimped blu-ray that was mentioned an if your goin to go at it half/assed then why do it at all?

0 up, 0 down

Ignitus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 8:42:43 PM
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But it was SONY who ripped off NINTENDO with MOVE in the first place.

The PS3/360 footage was from third parties, let's see the nintendo games first.

This new console, with the power to do proper 1080P, with the NINTENDO games (I'm big fan of Zelda, Mario Bros, Metroid and Mario Kart) and the PS3/360 third party support and the storage of bluray, even if it doesn't support BR movies, will be looking pretty good.

I'll definetively be keeping an eye on it very closely.

5 up, 5 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:25:56 PM

Apart from the rough shape of the hand held controller, explain one concept from Move that was 'copied' from the Wii. Every concept and technology in it was either already part of the PS3/PS2 control suite - Camera, motion sensing controller, buttons, analog stick, ... The most significant element is the inclusion of the motion tracking ball which on one else uses - including Nintendo. The other aspect is the secondary controller which provides the other half of the standard dual shock buttons. Move is more akin to a dual shock controller cut in half with a glowing ball stuck on the right half.

But, if you can do more than point to the 'want' shape of the controller, I'll be glad to discuss it.

8 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:29:12 PM

No, sir. Of course the tech will be different. Have you heard of these things called PATENTS? Can't spin this one. Sony wanted a slice of the casual pie and they pretty much ripped them off. Period.

4 up, 6 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:36:54 PM

You didn't really counter what Highlander was saying Pork.

6 up, 1 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:42:19 PM

His argument is that it wasn't a rip-off because they used different tech to achieve it. But there was no way they could have used the same tech because Nintendo has it patented.

2 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:44:19 PM

Oh and it's patented because they did it FIRST.

3 up, 4 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:05:36 PM

Porkchop, you can't patent a broad concept. Motion based control isn't patentable in any case because it exists in innumerable examples of prior art. Oh, and by the way, the use of different technologies does indeed make it patentable. Patents protect specific implementations of things. They can't protect the entire concept, especially if it's covered by prior art, or could be developed from existing technology by a competent practitioner. With both the Eyetoy and Sixaxis already in existence, there's not a snowballs chance in a very hot place of anyone winning a patent challenge against Move. The technology, implementation and appearance of Move is utterly different to the Wii.

You haven't countered a single point and are just pulling in the word patents to see if anyone defers from the argument because it might get all legalese on them. Move uses an optical camera to track the motion controller using the LED tracking ball on top of it. The motion sensing inside the controller is the same sixaxis technology in the Sixaxis and DS3 controllers. The PSEye is an upgraded Eyetoy with a 3D microphone array. Wii uses an intrafed emitter and sensor bar to detect the motion of the controller and uses standard accelerometers and other technology (just like the Sixaxis does) to sense orientation and motion of the controller.

Neither use of the motion sensing technology is new, and the motion capture technology is very different between the two. Sony actually went with a retail version of the technology used in motion picture creation. Technologically speaking, and conceptually speaking they are very different. Other than being roughly wand shaped devices that track motion in a 3D environment, they are very different to each other.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/13/2011 11:08:40 PM

7 up, 3 down

Clamedeus
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:09:33 PM

@PorkChop

It doesn't matter who has a patent on something, the way technology works is using what's around and making it better it happens all the time, and to fight over it is useless, it happens everyday, you experiment with the technology and make it better it's how things work, and it's how we progress as a society.

The Motion controls for Wii can be first made, but it will also be obsolete with new technology available to improve it, same with the Move, I'm sure something will replace that as well, whether it be by Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony. Maybe even by someone not working in Game development. It really doesn't matter who made what first in this field.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 6/13/2011 11:10:20 PM

4 up, 3 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:15:16 PM

Oh, you mean, when Sony announced they had motion in their controller months after Nintendo unveiled theirs? Come on. I know it kills you to admit that everything in the game industry wasn't invented by Sony, but they were following Nintendo's lead here. Plain and simple.

3 up, 8 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:18:13 PM

Clamadeus-

Of course, it doesn't matter who invents what first. But in this discussion it's about Sony taking an idea that Nintendo popularized. That's undeniable.

Last edited by PorkChopGamer on 6/13/2011 11:18:50 PM

3 up, 5 down

Highlander
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:27:56 PM

Whatever, there are none so blind as those that do not wish to see. I see little point in discussing this any further with you since all you appear to do is contradict.

3 up, 3 down

PorkChopGamer
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:53:58 PM

I think if you had anything remotely tangible, I would have agreed. But explaining how the tech works differently does not refute the claim that Sony's MAIN goal was to mimic what Nintendo was doing with the Wii. You're getting caught up in Wiimote vs. Move, when it was about the concept of motion control. No, that is not a concept wholly attributed to Nintendo, but the fact is they did REVOLUTIONize it. See what I did? Because remember when Nintendo....used to.....The Revolution....aaaah, you don't get it.

2 up, 4 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 1:59:05 AM

Repeating your opinion about Nintendo does not alter the facts. I'm not attacking Nintendo, merely pointing out the fallacy of the claim that Sony somehow copied Nintendo. If knocking down that is in your opinion somehow an attack on your beloved Nintendo, so be it.

7 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 2:11:17 AM

Swing. And a miss.

2 up, 7 down

RadioHeader
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 5:14:52 AM

I thought by now everyone would have seen the video of Sony's prototype Move, made back in 2000 or so.

...or is it fake?

6 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 8:30:11 AM

To me it's simple. If the difference in tech doesn't matter, then you must recognize that Sony did it first over a decade ago. Nintendo simply decided to find a way to market it to work.

But if you're honest with yourself, the path to the tech, if you actually know it, clearly indicates Sony was on their way to it even if Nintendo did nothing. Whether it's 6axis control, Move, PSeyetoy, or that ancient video capture (can't remember what it was called, but I remember a game where you would be projected on screen in a soccer net. A bunch of soccer balls would slowly fly towards the net, and you'd have to swat at them by moving your body on the screen) you could do with Sony tv's and camcorder in the mid-90's.... Ninty did not pioneer motion gaming. They merely found a way to make it popular.

Win = Highlander this round, I'm afraid.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/14/2011 8:34:21 AM

2 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 9:06:41 AM

Radioheader-

The video was 100% real.

Think about it like this. Some may have heard of these guys: Sam Langley, Elisha Gray, and Nikola Tesla(my idol). But more peole have definitely heard of The Wright Brothers, Alexander Bell, and Thomas Edison. More or less, the latter group implemented the technology well before the others.

Kind of (barely, but I love talking history) the same situation here. Though Sony and Nintendo weren't in direct competition, like those were, Nintendo made the idea practical and profitable. THEN Sony decided to dust off some old shelved tech and tried to sell it, too. But it was Nintendo that took the leap, in an idea that every gaming journalist on Earth(kind of like the Wii U) thought was the death knell for them. They took the risk and succeeded, and therefore, get the overall credit.

0 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 9:23:16 AM

underdog-
Come on now. Sony BARELY supported both versions of the Eyetoy. You know this. It was never something that Sony put alot of heart into. Sixaxis was an answer to Nintendo's motion but more to a controller that had nothing going for it after the Immersion flap. If the wand was an up and coming reality, it surely would have surfaced in a practical form before 2009. They were trying to catch a wave that Nintendo started. That's clear.

1 up, 2 down

PorkChopGamer
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 9:33:10 AM

And after trying to shoehorn it into every game, Sixaxis control pretty much dried up. Look at reviews of Uncharted 2. Many of them PRAISE the fact that there are no Sixaxis controls for the grenades. Haha.

Though, I really loved it in Heavy Rain. Move controls are even better for than one.

2 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 10:34:18 AM

I guess I'm confused by what this debate is about.

Is it about the tech or not? This debate keeps flip-flopping. First it was about whether or not Sony ripped off Nintendo. When it was proven that Sony's tech is a natural progression of their own tech, then it became about how Nintendo did it first. When it was proven Sony did it first, then it became about who marketed it better/took the bigger risk.

If that's the debate now, then I would say that if Sony has the tech so accessibly close and they see Wii doing well, it's only natural that for very little extra effort (since they have the tech) to release their own version. Especially since Microsoft is too. It would be stupid not to, actually.

But again, this mini thread has taken way too many angles to be a focused debate.

EDIT: Also, Sixaxis came out at release. I remember MLB 07 the show working very well with it.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/14/2011 10:43:26 AM

4 up, 1 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:09:26 AM

A lot of games include sixaxis functionality - if you cared to use it In a lot of them it worked really well, and was quite natural. However, if you're pre-disposed to arguing, as Pork Chop is, you'll find a way to continue the argument by simply shifting ground continually and contradicting - and very, very little else.

3 up, 1 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:09:27 AM

A lot of games include sixaxis functionality - if you cared to use it In a lot of them it worked really well, and was quite natural. However, if you're pre-disposed to arguing, as Pork Chop is, you'll find a way to continue the argument by simply shifting ground continually and contradicting - and very, very little else.

0 up, 2 down

Simcoe
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:12:33 AM

The genesis of motion gaming comes from Nintendo, it's name: The Nintendo Power Glove. That was in the 80's.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:25:05 AM

The genesis of motion control came from the many instances of remote control systems seen in science fiction movies since the 50's where a character would wear a pair of gloves, or use one of those industrial remote control systems that mimic your movements and even finger positions allowing operators to remotely manipulate objects based on their motions locally.

Besides which, the gloriously Borgified PowerGlove can't even be mentioned in the hallowed halls of Nintendo, so it's dangerous to bring it up here.... ;)

0 up, 1 down

PorkChopGamer
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:30:14 AM

Simcoe- Nintendo didn't invent the Power Glove. They made it an official licenesd product, though.

To everyone else- yeah, this debate is getting cluttered and there alot of dancing around. So to really simplify with this fact:

There would have been no Move in it's current form without the Wii.

2 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:42:45 AM

Okay, but I specifically referenced motion gaming and something that was tangible to the everyday person. I'm sure the military and other secret agencies had equivalent prototypes back in the 60's or 70's and I'm sure that the power glove people got their idea from Star Trek just like so many other technologies we now see today (even others we won't see for decades)!

Also, unless I'm missing sarcasm, why can't the PowerGlove be mentioned at Nintendo? Did they lose a tonne of money with it? I just remember my friend had it and we played Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, I even brought over my copy of Rad Racer to use with it. Speaking of Rad Racer, and new fangeled technologies in gaming, that game was also playable in 3D! lol

1 up, 0 down

jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 12:07:08 PM

I thought the argument was about who "copied" who? Tech aside, it was clear (to me) that both Microsoft and Sony saw how popular motion gaming was (Wii) and wanted a piece of the pie. And with that, Kinect and Move were born!

All 3 maybe different tech wise, but its easy to draw comparisions to what each offers gameplay wise (Wii Sports Resort vs. Sports Champions vs. Kinect Sports).

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 6/14/2011 12:08:25 PM

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 12:46:46 PM

Simcoe,

The PowerGlove was a giant failure and it's normally mentioned only in connection with giant failure and/or pointless control innovation. PowerGlove is essentially a shorthand way to reference pointless innovation in control schemes that are hailed as revolutionary simply because they are hailed as revolutionary and then subsequently fall flat on their face.

Jimmy,

At launch, the PS3 had Sixaxis controllers that were motion sensing in terms of movement and orientation of the controller, and you also had the PS3 version of the EyeToy - the PSEye. Sony didn't suddenly take note of Nintendo's Wii and generate Move, Move was an evolution of those initial elements of the PS3s default control scheme.

Porkchop, yes dancing around the point has occurred, interesting that during the discussion I answered points directly and offered counterpoints, where others shifted ground without answering.

The basic genesis of the discussion was the off-hand accusation that Sony copied Nintendo. They did not, as I have laid out in numerous posts now.

3 up, 2 down

jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 1:02:01 PM

@ Highlander,

I understand that Sixaxis controllers have been around since the PS3 launched. The gameplay you can acheive with that is vastly different than what you can do with Wii Motionplus and the Move though. Sixaxis worked well with a title like Flower because of the simplicity of the game. And even though the PSeye/Eyetoy have been around since the PS2, I think we could all agree that it was hardly supported and not really a hit.

The point I think Ignitus and Porkchop were trying to make was that, even if Sony had this tech in place in the form of the said peripherals, its no coincidence that the Move controller was announced during the climax of the Wii's success. And like you said, you can't patent a broad concept, but you can easily compare the two.

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 1:26:47 PM

Eyetoy sold millions of units, and Sixaxis was (and still is) well implemented in many games, not just Flower. However the point is, Sony didn't copy Nintendo. The technology in the Eyetoy and subsequently in the PSEye shows a trend with Sony developing motion based controls with the PlayStation line since the PS2. I don't doubt that the market conditions for motion control became more fertile as demonstrated by the success of Wii, although Wii's success had reasons besides motion control behind it. However, that does not mean that Sony in some fashion copied Nintendo - which was the issue at the start of all of this.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/14/2011 1:26:59 PM

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Qubex
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 9:13:07 PM
Reply

From what I am picking up the WiiU should be compatible with the Wii motion controller right? If yes, then why not be able to connect multiple motion controllers to the WiiU if you want family fun.

Surely Nintendo will not restrict the WiiU to one controller only. That would be crazy then. If they do, the WiiU deserves to fail...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 10:18:32 PM

Yea it looks that way. Did you see when the girl put the tablet on the floor and it had the golf ball on the screen in the sand? She was using the Wiimote to swing. I think it looks fantastic. Even if what they show is just concept. It has potential to be great.

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AbsoluteZer0
Monday, June 13, 2011 @ 11:59:08 PM

@Qubex
It does sound like Nintendo is going to restrict the number of Ucontrollers to one per sytem. However, I would imagine they'll accomplish this much like they solved the 3D problem with the 3DS: prohibit games from requiring more than one Ucontroller.(Nintendo basically told devs that they had to make all 3DS games playable without 3D, I can't find a link right now)

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AbsoluteZer0
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 12:20:08 AM
Reply

Well, as a resident Nintendo-fanboy, I suppose I should have some things to say about this.

Firstly, I'm (pretty) sure there several reasons that Nintendo is restricting the number of Ucontrollers. First, and most obvious, price. These things are going to cost a pretty penny. But secondly, will the Wii U console have the power to stream images to more than one controller unit? I imagine Highlander will have some input on this, so I'll leave any in-depth technical examinations of this idea to him. There may be more reasons, but those are what's coming off the top of my head right now.

Second, that Nintendo used footage from PS3 and Xbox 360 games during their conference. Well, I suppose there are several reasons for this. One, to show that they have these "hardcore" games lined up. Nintendo still has to actually have these devs on board to use these trailers and footage, so it does properly show that they are indeed on board with the system. Two, the system seems to be at a highly conceptual state, I'm not sure we should be expecting games to be well into development at this point. Overall, this doesn't reflect well on Nintendo, mostly because it seems that they're just pushing to regain investor's faith in them after lackluster year(s) of sales with the Wii and 3DS.

Finally, Andrew House's comments. They do seem to be quite highbrow and above board. Also very classy, I do think this reflects pretty nicely.

2 up, 0 down

Sancho
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 6:56:35 AM

I'm not anywhere close to as informed in technology as Highlander or anything, however what I gather the reason for only 1 WiiU controller is that because the controller is merely a display with a touch interface and motion for sending limited feedback to the console. It would seem multiple controllers would only be able to display the same image. Then getting different feedback from multiple controllers would confuse the game and make it unplayable.

Thats what I've gathered from what I've heard about the system. I suppose when feedback wasn't required from the controller it would be possible to use it only as a inventory screen or something of the sort for multiple players.

5 up, 0 down

___________
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 6:05:39 AM
Reply

there not?
so were forgetting the no pre set motion controls remark they made when unveiling the move wand are we?
$ony have made just as many pot shots at the competition as the others have!

my lord, what a hypocrite!
yes MR house what about if you have a family of six?
i could count the amount of games that support 2 players on one ps3 on my hands, let alone the games that support 6!
thats one thing ive always wondered, whats the point of having the ability to have 7 DS3 controllers if theres what .1% of games that actually use it?

as for the vids how is it flattery?
there showing off games that are going to be on there system!
so M$s demo of MW3 was a flattery for sony too was it?
so was EAs demo of battlefield 3!
what a arrogant ignorant remark to make!
there showing these off because most of said games are not ready to be shown off on the system yet.
you know...... they dont have the luxury of actually being out for the past 5 years!

2 up, 2 down

Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:11:08 AM

LBP (for example) allows at least 4. The ability to use 7 is a maximum, but 4 players at a time requires 4 controllers - which is supported. The ability to support 7 controllers also helps with move since you require two controller 'slots' for each set of move controllers. So you can in theory have three players locally.

It sure seems that there are a lot of secret Nintendo Defense Force members around here...;) Seriously though, you and a few others seem very vehement in your defense of Nintendo, to the point of ignoring reason and fact.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/14/2011 11:12:40 AM

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Simcoe
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 11:25:34 AM

Did Warhawk ever allow four players? That Modnation and LBP are the only ones that probably ever did need 4 full-function game pads. Other games that needed more were probably trivia or party games, something that will be easily handled by using existing wii controllers.

I also wonder if 7 had something to do with or a factor of bluetooth capacity.

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Highlander
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 12:48:09 PM

I believe that the '7' is a technical limit imposed by Bluetooth technology as you say. The maximum I've ever seen used is 4.

But I think it also includes other Bluetooth devices such as the keyboard or headset. In theory there is a device limit on how many things can synchronize with a Bluetooth capable system.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/14/2011 12:49:24 PM

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Sancho
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 @ 7:12:38 PM

I think you can use 7 on the Bomberman PSN release and I also believe theres a basketball game where you can play with 7 people simultaneously if I remember correctly.

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___________
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 @ 10:05:08 AM

since when are we talking about 4?
last time i checked he said what if you have a family of six, and last time i checked there are VERY few ps3 games that support 2 players on one system let alone six!
hes failing to realize the pad is designed to be used together with the wii motes like they showed off in the golf demo.
its not designed for playing at the same time, its more geared to pass the doochie on the left hand side thing.........

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ayente
Wednesday, June 15, 2011 @ 6:09:55 PM
Reply

First off, unlike a lot of you, I am no fanboy of any game system. I enjoy Uncharted, Gears, and Zelda all the same but it kills me when reps from Sony and MS (and their fanboys) take shots at Big N and then turn around and copy them. If mimicry is a form of flattery then Sony has been complimenting Nintendo from the start. These are things that Sony "borrowed" from Nintendo: d-pad, start/select buttons, shoulder buttons, analog sticks, rumble feature, wii remote (move), nunchuck (navigation controller), avatars, and going after the casual gaming market. Almost all of these features are Nintendo originals and for those who don't believe it, check your gaming history. As for the video, If Nintendo doesn't have games ready to display, they wanted to show what AT LEAST their system is capable of. Sony should at least let that slide after all of the "flattery" they have shown Big N over the years.

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