Is The Japanese Style And Artistry Doomed To Die?
See Full ImageAs I was playing Shadows of the Damned the other day, it suddenly struck me: is this very distinct Japanese flair dying? In another decade, will it even exist at all?
It's not just about anime, which has always helped to define the Japanese video game market; a title like July's Catherine will never be as popular in the West. It goes well beyond that. As most veteran gamers know, there's a unique style and artistry that goes along with many Japanese productions. Sometimes, it's subtle and almost indefinable, but it's always there and it always lends the interactive production a recognizable aura. Shadows, for instance, walks that fine line between seriousness and comical tongue-and-cheek entertainment. It's gory and dark but that streak of Japanese influence is obvious and in this day and age, refreshing.
And as Western development studios continue to dominate and the Japanese designers desperately try to change their ways to suit Western tastes, that singular motif described above may disappear completely. Whether it's Resident Evil or Metal Gear Solid or Soul Calibur, all such franchises are very obviously Japanese, and that particular style is on the wane. And I don't count Mario, Zelda, and the other Nintendo franchises, as they've never really changed; they've also catered to a younger demographic. I'm referring more to dramatic, cutting-edge productions designed to compete with the Western big boys. There's just a certain attitude in Japanese titles and some people like that.
Even when Japanese designers attempt to emulate Western styles, it's never a complete transformation; there's always a small semblance of the Japanese culture that leaks through. So why deny it? Can it really be that nobody cares anymore? Will Japanese gamers be forced to adopt Western styles if they wish to continue playing games? Well, of course not. But maybe those titles won't be released over here...like, none of them.
Tags: japanese games, gaming industry, video games
6/26/2011 9:18:20 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (91 posts)
Nlayer
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 9:56:08 PM
Reply
I'll always have Anime for Japanese style though. Unless that starts to completely change in which case I would be very surprised.
Last edited by Nlayer on 6/26/2011 9:56:20 PM
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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:20:55 PM
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How is it possible that us gamers know what is good for the industry and the devs and publishers have no idea?
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GuernicaReborn
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:25:21 PM
But then they felt if they westernized their games, they would sell more copies. If you ask me, their problem is that they got too greedy between last gen and this gen.
I don't fully understand it. They had their place, and it seemed to be working for them. Why ruin that?
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godsman
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:40:47 PM
I do want to say one thing though. The market is there for Japanese games, just see the old PSone and PS2 sales in Final Fantasy RPGs. 8-10 million. Why the hell is Square Enix trying to Westernize their games when they can't even satisfy the original 8-10 million supporters? Sell 12-14 million copies of FFXIII then I would shut up and think "maybe Square Enix made the right business choice...".
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Highlander
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 11:53:54 PM
You may like westernization now, but put it this way, "you can buy any car you want as long as it's black...". That was what you could say before we had diversity among car makers. I we lose the Japanese style, influence, flair, or whatever you want to call it and all game share the same artistic style and game play, game will be very boring. You need that diversity, the differences, they Japanese and the western, all of it. Otherwise you lose something valuable.
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shadowscorpio
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:30:58 AM
It is only natural that we gamers know what best for the industry because we helped make this industry. Lets never forget that. Companies/developers grow so big on the success that is gained from giving us what we actually want that they get to a point where they think they can trail away from that and do anything, thinking they will never fail.
MS , with all their advertising power, has tainted the Japanese devs and has no doubt been an influence in leaving them confused. After MS failed with the first xbox to Sony, you know that had to put in a plan to make sure it wouldn't happen again. In doing so , they have managed to alter this industry, especially when it comes to the Japenese devs.
If what I say has no merit, then I beg the question: Why hasn't this ever happened before?
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shadowscorpio
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:33:45 AM
Good way of putting this into perspective.
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ZettaiSeigi
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:46:08 PM
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It's rather telling that my PS2 library is mostly comprised of Japanese games. I bought a PS2 because that's where SEGA moved the Sakura Taisen (Sakura Wars) franchise after they stopped producing the Dreamcast. It was then when I got introduced to the games made from outside Japan. I liked them too, of course, but I also look forward to playing my next Japanese-style game. I miss the days when Final Fantasy is distinctly Japanese (or Asian) when it comes to its lore and gameplay. I don't think any western developer would've thought of a marvel like Okami and actually make it. And how could we forget ICO and Shadow of the Colossus? Easily wo of the most artistic games ever made!
So no, I would always miss how unique games from Japan are. It's so sad that most Japanese developers completely lost the plot this console generation and thought that all gamers want are realistic-looking shooters and Hollywood-style explosions. It would be a very sad day for me when all the things that made Japanese games great get flushed down the drain.
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godsman
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:51:52 PM
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ZettaiSeigi
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:56:42 PM
And again, I am not saying that I prefer the Japanese games over the western ones. I just want to see them flourish alongside the excellent ones being made in the West.
Edit: I probably forgot, but I don't remember ever posting here I am from Asia. If you recalled that from another post, I would have to commend your memory! :)
Last edited by ZettaiSeigi on 6/26/2011 10:57:54 PM
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Clamedeus
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:44:36 AM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 8:34:28 AM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:15:50 AM
I got hooked on Japanese culture, or at least very much more interested in it thanks to the novel Shogun. However, I always loved 'Japanimation' and grew up on a diet of re-voiced cartoons on TV. I watched and then bought a version of Akira (can't remember if it was dubded or sub-titled), about a decade before that was popular in the west outside a very specific group of 'Manga' fans. Actually, now I think about it I think it was sub-titled, because I remember being enormously disapointed when I saw it again later on cable TV, as a dubbed version - something was missing from the movie.
All that aside, purely from a gaming point of view, Japanese games have something different to games made in the west. I love both, I mean, Uncharted, inFamous, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank, Crash Bandicoot, Lara Croft, Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, Civilization, Sim City and even Halo (yes I enjoyed the original Halo folks - believe it or not) etc... all games that come from Western developers, all games I loved to play. However, my list of my top 10 games all time includes Xenosaga, Gran Turismo, Final fantasy, Valkyria Chronicles, Soul Calibur, and other JRPGs nearly too numerous to mention. You might expect me to be interested in games featuring samurai, well a bit, I really did enjoy Genji Days of the Blade, probably a lot more than most did, and I'm sure I could get into a lot of other games that are more straight hack and slash (and more samurai themed), if it wasn't for the fact the I like so many other games too.
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Clamedeus
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 4:33:00 PM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 6:06:09 PM
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Highlander
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 10:40:34 AM
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ZettaiSeigi
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 6:09:39 PM
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godsman
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 10:49:51 PM
Reply
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FM23
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:06:13 AM
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Claire C
Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 11:51:15 PM
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=^.^=
Last edited by Claire C on 6/26/2011 11:53:57 PM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:20:40 AM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:43:51 AM
Writing Japanese can be tough and you'd really need to take lessons to be good at it. They have three writing systems, each one having their own purpose. I taught myself to read the Hiragana and Katakana characters, and that was relatively easy. Writing them is another thing, since you have to learn how to do the strokes properly. Almost all people learning Japanese are actually "drawing" them instead of "writing".
Ah well. Sorry to go off-topic there. LOL
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:48:52 AM
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Claire C
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 1:19:06 AM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:00:10 AM
Katakana is used mostly for their "loaned words" (e.g. foreign names or anything that does not exist in the Japanese vocabulary). Hiragana, on the other hand, is used plainly for Japanese words but may not have the equivalent Kanji symbol.
I have read somewhere that there are still Japanese people who struggle with Kanji, and for a reason. Kanji is complicated. Katakana and Hiragana mostly use simple strokes to write (maximum of 4 strokes per character IIRC). But Kanji are those that require more than that and you could easily spot them if they're written next to any Hiragana or Katana character. Kanji also could stand for two or more syllables. In a way, think of Kanji as something that stands for an idea rather than for an actual word, if that makes any sense.
Anyway, that's what got me interested in Japanese. What I told you above are pretty much what I've learned on my own, so I could definitely be mistaken somewhere. I'm a frustrated polyglot and I can't help it. So sue me. LOL
PS: I guess the reason I found Japanese easy to a very small degree is because Tagalog (my native language) is also syllabic. We also read words the way they are spelled, just like the Japanese people do.
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:19:55 AM
As for the other two 'character sets', roughly how many characters do you have to learn for each?
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Beamboom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:33:21 AM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 4:49:20 AM
Anyway, there are 48 characters for both Katakana and Hiragana systems. So that's a total 96 just for the two systems alone. I'm not sure if I could actually speak for others, but these two are really easy to read (stressing on the reading part).
And you're right Highlander, Kanji was based from the one in China and it is indeed what you said. Japan and China do share a lot of Kanji characters, but as you would expect, they do have differing meanings (although a good few may still impart the same idea).
Again, I blame SakuTai on all this. LOL
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:19:42 AM
As for the Spoken Japanese along with Romanji, Hiragana and Katakana, I think I can cope with that, as long as the games from Japan use one or other of Hiragana and Katakana for menus and other text. It's still a daunting prospect though.
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 6:17:31 PM
If you intend to learn how to speak Japanese, the easiest start is to watch Japanese animation and TV shows.
Like I mentioned before, I got my start with SakuTai and that was a pretty much all-encompassing franchise (video games, tons of music, anime, manga, stage plays, etc.) It's also a series that derives a lot of its humour on clever puns and other sorts of wordplay. When I first played the games, I kept wondering why SEGA never bothered to export the games to the West. But after realizing how much the franchise is "heavily Japanese", I could see why that never happened. It would be a very tough job to localize and the humour could easily get lost in translation. And for that same reason do I commend NISA for making a huge effort to bring Sakura Wars 5 to the West. But alas, it seems that it did not sell a lot of copies.
Anyway, good luck if you decide to pursue studying Japanese. I assure you it would be fun. I was seriously considering taking formal lessons at one time, but that never materialized for several reasons. I would definitely love to do it though granted that I get more time to do so, and honestly, more funds. LOL
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Highlander
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 10:47:15 AM
Actually I may have a huge advantage on learning Japanese. My son is home schooled. He is on the higher functioning end of the Autism spectrum and profoundly ADD. Public school was failing him utterly, he went from being an A student in the first couple of years of school to being in remedial classes - and failing those - by 3rd grade. So we took him out and my wife teaches him at home now. Either way, he's technically in high school now, and has a strong interest in Japanese pop culture - anime and such. He wants to learn Japanese as part of his school curriculum, so I think that we'll be doing the Japanese lessons as a family. Not sure how we'll find a good program for him though, my wife has to investigate over the summer.
Thanks for the encouragement though. If we find a good program or system for learning, I'll post something on the Off Topic forum. I hope it works out though, there are dozens of games I'd import if I could speak Japanese well enough to cope. I hope that the games let you choose one of the character sets other than Kanji.
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ZettaiSeigi
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 6:05:08 PM
With my experience with the few Japanese games I've played, I was not given a choice to select which writing system to use when playing. While quite unfortunate, we again have to consider that the games I played relied heavily on wordplay. Converting the words to either systems would lose such elements, and hence what made the games great for its fans. Perhaps the other games would not be as restrictive.
What you're about to venture out to (studying Japanese with the entire family) seems to be really exciting. Studying Japanese on your own should be fun enough, but it would be miles better with family and friends. Perhaps you'd surprise me one of these days when you're already posting in full Japanese, and in Kanji too! Hahaha!
Btw, I was advised by some Japanese friends to actually go to Japan after I've learned enough Japanese. And I agree. The best way to learn a language is to actually immerse yourself into it. I think you already have a head start, since you already know a few Japanese words. I think it is best that you familiarize yourself with the most common words and greetings, enough to get yourself around and ask simple questions. I've been told that Japan's transportation system (the trains) are quite lenient to tourists since they all have the names in Kanji, Hiragana/Katakana, and of course, Latin alphabets.
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:19:06 AM
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Ben, I honestly thought that when PSN and digital delivery arrived it would facilitate *more* of those Japanese games being released. I though that the vastly reduced costs of publication of a game on PSN would allow many more titles from Japan (and elsewhere) to be sold world wide via PSN. Look at the many Japanese games we never see, they only need a straight translation of text, menus and subtitles, no further localization is required. The cost of that is very limited compared to the cost of re-voicing the entire game as well as localizing all signage and so forth. For a very low investment the makers so so many Japanese games could so as the anime companies have, sell their product to fans hungry for it here in the West. I do not understand why this can't be done. I do not understand why it's not an option - apparently - since it clearly offers a low cost way to garner perhaps hundreds of thousands (or more) of new sales.
As for the wider question about the Japanese artistry and flare. I honestly think that the gaming industry is doing it to itself. Actually, to be more precise, the English speaking games industry is unwittingly (I hope) doing it to itself. What I mean by this is the apparently widely accepted notion that Japanese devs are inferior, the widespread opinion that somehow JRPG games and other games infused with that artistry and flare are somehow less worth they games like GTA or CoD. As this generation has progresses I have noticed an undercurrent, almost a xenophobic, or perhaps chauvinistic, sentiment that places Western games above Japanese games in every regard.
It's absolutely wrong to do that, I can't even tell you how many kinds of wrong it is, but I sense that undercurrent among gamers, much of the gaming media and even publishers/ developers. I mean, look at what happens if you have the temerity to think that a JRPG is a good genre. Apart from places (very few) like PSXExtreme, you'll be berated for that opinion, or at very least belittled for it.
But, it that kind of attitude, that kind of undercurrent that is doing the damage to Japanese games. The absolutely worst part of it is that hyper successful games like CoD have given Japanese game publishers the message that to make the billions CoD makes, you have to follow that template. The attitude present in western gamers and developers is felt by the Japanese developers, so much so that *THEY* believe it. Their own management and leadership are seeing CoD and telling their devs to imitate it in some way, and the feeling that the devs get from western gamers and developers is that somehow the Japanese are behind the times, backwards, inferior, and that to catch up they have to copy successful western games.
Ironically enough, I think that the truth is the opposite. Western Porgrammers are very adept at the technical side of games, they are great at building huge open environments 3D shooters, and 3D character and object models, they are great at sound design and all of the technology. What Western developers often fail at though is the play. Yes, there are some very notable exceptions to this. But, I finds that in general Japanese games are more pleasant to watch and play and they are simply more fun - in general. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but in general I've found it to be true. I think that the Japanese game designers and developers have retained a batter understanding of what a game is, thei8r games are still games to play with.
If we lost this Japanese influence we lose something vital to gaming, and we lose variety. I don't believe hat anyone in the western development community can compensate for that loss.
I don't know if we will see to go completely, the Japanese Home market will remain somewhat vibrant, it's large enough to survive on it's own. Plus, even with anime, we still get occasional dubbed released, and us hardcore fans can always watch at Cruncyroll with subtitles.
All that said, no western developer would ever have produced Soul Calibur, Tekken, Street Fighter, Gran Turismo, Yakuza, Final Fantasy, Xenosaga, Xenogears, White Knight Chronicles, Atelier games, Ar Tonelica, Tales of..., Valkyria Chronicles, Harvest Moon, etc....
Frankly, without games like the ones I just listed, gaming would lose a lot of it's attraction. I doubt I'd spend half as much as I do without Japanese games.
6 up, 1 down
kevinater321
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 9:05:09 AM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:46:26 PM
lol
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kevinater321
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:16:02 PM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:23:54 PM
I think it's a human flaw, though. "Pride comes before a fall" isn't a modern teaching, afterall. People pride themselves on a large variety of things. I've got plenty, myself. Worst part of all, I know I should be a LOT more humble than I am. I just can't bring myself to be that way. lol
A bitter circle indeed!
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bentl78
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 1:38:52 AM
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FM23
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 1:51:46 AM
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But with that said, I don't want it to die because I enjoyed FFXIII and Bayonetta.
But I disagree with people who say Western games are nothing, but shooters. AC, Batman, etc are not shooters. And those same people will turn around and say they love UC because its a PS3 exclusive, but its a shooter. And then they say they hate CoD because it ruined Japanese gaming. Seriously, Japanese developers brought this on themselves by trying to compete with the Western market instead of just creating good games.
Face it, Western developers make better games nowadays so give credit where credit is due.
Last edited by FM23 on 6/27/2011 1:58:54 AM
6 up, 3 down
Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:01:08 AM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:06:54 AM
And I agree with what you said about Japanese devs bringing this on themselves. Because a lot of them pretty much sold out.
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FM23
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:22:11 AM
I get tired of reading about how Western games are so this and that, but they truth of the matter is most of the good games are western developed and most are pretty diverse. I've never paid attention to Western or Japanese tailored games, but since I started coming to this site...I have learned this difference between the two. I didn't even know MGS was a Japanese game until MGS4 came out. But I like to play games that are good and ironically, imo...most came out of the West. That's really my point.
This is just opinion. Like I said, I don't want this style to die as I'm waiting for The Last Guardian and the ICO collection to hit, but I just dislike the way some people on here complain about the West when the west is creating some pretty good games that aren't just shooters. Notice how I never bash Japanese games saying they suck or anything, I just say the stories are full of cliches, etc(RE, MGS, SH). And at the same time, they are full of so much character...thats what really stuck out to me in FFXIII and Bayonetta. Really takes fantasy to another dimension, but I still find it weird most of the time.
I'm not bashing Japanese style at all. Remember that people. I'm just blaming its downfall on the developers and their mindset towards a changing industry
Last edited by FM23 on 6/27/2011 2:28:38 AM
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Lawless SXE
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:22:47 AM
Also, don't get me wrong, Western games are often much better from a general standpoint than Asia-developed games, but they also lack a certain uniqueness. I'm not implying that they're all simply copycats or whatever, but a lot of them tend to blend together after a while IMO.
Last edited by Lawless SXE on 6/27/2011 2:29:17 AM
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FM23
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:36:20 AM
But I agree all the way with you when you say Japanese games have a uniqueness to them. That is so true. MGS and Demons Souls are some of the best games ever imo. And then something like Bayonetta and FFXIII placed alot of wonder in my mind even though I found them weird. I have nothing against Japanese gaming as I agree with you, but I just hate when people try to blame the downfall of Japanese games on Western developers...thats a weak argument.
Blame the Japanese developers for destroying their own art you know.
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Lawless SXE
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:06:37 AM
Peace.
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Beamboom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:52:46 AM
Or something.
We all agree it's a loss but one can not be held responsible for the other.
Last edited by Beamboom on 6/27/2011 3:54:21 AM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 8:42:56 AM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 8:47:32 AM
What do you think drives the stories in CoD games? American and British war hero cliches. (Canadian war cliches are somewhere between the two, so we're no better) And games like GTA? Do you not think what happens in that game is just plain stupid, let alone overdramatic and overdone? Talk about fantasy.... Or how about Zombie games?
At least in the un-realistic-ness of Japanese games, they often dig deep into the /real/ humanity of the characters.
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Beamboom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 9:35:45 AM
Quote FM23: "people always like to blame the Japanese market downfall on western games"
Quote Lawless: "the blame has to fall somewhere, and that is firmly at the feet of Western developers"
-> that's like blaming Britney for being popular.
Last edited by Beamboom on 6/27/2011 9:37:14 AM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 9:52:35 AM
But... until then... I remain convinced the blame rests squarely (yuk yuk) on the shoulders of the Jap Dev's who are capable of making AAA Jap games, but simply do not.
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Beamboom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:02:25 AM
:D
The japs gotta make good games, that's all…
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Ludicrous_Liam
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:05:00 AM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:40:07 AM
I know that you're just abbreviating, but please stop saying Jap instead of Japanese. Whenever I've heard people talking about 'Japs' when referring to Japanese, it's invariably been disrespectful in tone - to put it mildly. Please use the whole word Japanese, it's only five additional character strokes, but it makes a world of difference. Referring to the Japanese as Japs is kind of like Americans being called Yanks, or British people being called Limeys or perhaps more accurately Germans being referred to as 'Jerries'.
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:37:18 AM
Or to put it more simply, the term "Japs" is politically incorrect.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 6/27/2011 11:37:31 AM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:58:17 AM
Last edited by Highlander on 6/27/2011 12:00:19 PM
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Beamboom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:26:26 PM
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Underdog15
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:48:58 PM
That's why I overlooked the term. My bad. Just wanted to let you know it's not how I intended to put it.
To add to Highlander: Or Canadians being called Canucks? Nah, just kidding. We love that term. :)
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/27/2011 12:50:56 PM
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Lawless SXE
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 1:23:32 PM
That's taking my comment out of context... To bemoan the undeniable, negative influence that the popularity of Western devs has had on Japanese devs was my intent, not to blame the developers themselves.
Highlander,
Never knew that you guys thought of 'Yank' as being offensive. 'Round here, it's generally used as a term of affection :/ Then again, we're also apt to calling our best friends c**ts so...
Last edited by Lawless SXE on 6/27/2011 1:24:49 PM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:07:22 PM
BeamBoom, that word - the one beginning with 'N' - carries a very great deal of offense and power in some societies and is uniquely powerful in that way. It's a word that is utterly unacceptable for some in a society to use, while at the same time it's accepted as used in slang by others. But unless you belong to the specific social group where it's accepted, using that word is a fast track to a very nasty argument or worse. maybe that's a uniquely North American phenomenon, but in general, I'd stay away from that particular word.
Underdog (and Beamboom) I knew you were just using it as a short hand abbreviation, for convenience, but for whatever reason it really lights up a portion of my brain that simply says "Stop!". Too many people of my grand parents generation had experiences from WWII that left them with huge issues when dealing with Germans, Italians or the Japanese. They'd routinely use such derogatory terms, despite decades and generations passing and despite all three of these nations moving far beyond their history. Perhaps that experience left me more sensitive to the use of language? I don't know. Just one of those things I guess.
Last edited by Highlander on 6/27/2011 2:07:45 PM
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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 6:23:58 PM
Damn, it's so surreal how mature this community is! (For the most part, that is.) And btw, I personally kid my really close American friends by calling them "Merkins" Haha! That's because they'd know I was just fooling around. :)
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Beamboom
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 2:40:28 AM
Highlander, I know the N word and it's boundaries well since I occasionally listen to rap music. :D
Last edited by Beamboom on 6/28/2011 2:42:33 AM
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Highlander
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 @ 10:55:19 AM
The trouble with human history is that in ever conflict between nations or social groups, someone invents one or more slang terms of abuse for the other side, and they may become commonly used. Then decades later, those same words often still carry that burden, but it may not be known to everyone.
No harm done, as I've said, I knew no one was using the word in a negative or offensive way, but the word itself was jarring to me, so I said something.
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Lawless SXE
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:16:17 AM
Reply
There really do seem to be fewer limits on what Japanese developers are scared of doing, and that tends to lead to more ambitious developments. I mean, who can deny the sheer abstract beauty of El Shaddai, and what Western developer would make that the clear focus of their game. A similar sentiment must be shared by Okami. What Western developer would mix a life/dating sim with a nightmarish story and puzzle-platforming elements to conjure up Catherine?
What Western developers actually succeed at tugging at your heartstrings compared to games like FFVII, Valkyria Chronicles, ICO/SotC, and even MGS4? There is indeed a very unique atmosphere to their games, and if it ever disappears, then the gaming world will lament, even if they refuse to realise it yet.
Peace.
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FM23
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 2:30:11 AM
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___________
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:01:25 AM
Reply
IF they stop with this bullsh*t idea of only asians like that style of game then no it wont die.
but if they keep in that frame of mind, then yea a few more years and it will be gone the way of the survival horror game.
not dead, but as common as a flying pig.
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 3:44:48 AM
;)
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 7:06:19 AM
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I seriously doubt it. Yes, some Japanese developers are ambitious and want to sell like Call of Duty, most notoriously Square-Enix. But there are a number of others that are perfectly content to keep doing their own thing. Among them are Nippon Ichi Software, Gust, Idea Factory (and yes I know some people have issues with this one), Compile Heart, Atlus, Arc System Works, Level 5, From Software, Sony's Japan Studio, to a lesser extent Sega, and ARGUABLY Namco Bandai.
Those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. If anyone can name any others then please feel free to add them.
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:33:54 AM
Specifically regarding Namco, they have numerous highly successful franchises that would benefit greatly from an approach that does not look to specific markets and simply creates the beast damned game possible. Soul Calibur is a good example of this. While i understand the desire to include guest characters from Western game franchises to entice western gamers, and I also appreciate the western styled armor, weapon and clothing items in the create a Soul modes, the game is first and foremost what it is, the best weapons fighter that there is, and it's the best because of the Japanese art and flare. Namco needs to remember that and retain that focus. They'd do really well to maintain that kind of outlook with their other games, I think that they'd be healthier to ignore the monetary advances of console makers and stick to making great games instead of switching platforms for short term monetary gain.
While I remember, a word about paid exclusivity. If a console maker wishes to engage a third party developer to develop a new IP exclusively for their platform, I have no problem. If a console maker approaches a third party to develop an exclusive new game in an established franchise owned by the console maker, I have no problem. But, if a developer/publisher is making a new game in an established franchise that they own, and accepts payment to either switch platforms entirely (moving away from their existing customer base), or grant a lengthy timed exclusivity outside Japan to an alternate platform, then I do have a problem with paid exclusivity.
Several of the Major game publishers/developers in Japan are guilty of the third type of exclusivity I mentioned, and I honestly see this as one of the reasons that they are having problems. It's also one of the reasons that this entire topic is even up for discussion.
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:02:17 AM
Yes they have looked to the Western market with interest before. But after the failure of Enslaved it would seem that they've become considerably more wary of it. They almost didn't green light Tales of Graces F for localization.
So yes, as you indicate it does seem to be somewhat of an identity crisis for them.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 6/27/2011 11:02:45 AM
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:10:49 AM
They're so different that I honestly can't see one as the indicator of the success of the other in the West. Whether Namco has an identity crisis or not, if they took the reception for Enslaved in the Western markets as an indicator for how Tales of Graces F would fare, then they neither understand the market, or their games genre.
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mastiffchild
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 7:44:50 PM
Also, Enslaved's total lack of anything resembling a challenge for anyone with one eye and a couple of semi working fingers didn't seem to hurt them in Capcom's eyes now, did it?Would they have gotten this extra chance in the past I wonder or does it show an inferiority complex in Japanese gaming?
Whatever, the thing is we get fewer Japanese made games than we used to and when EA won't push a game they publish you have to wonder why, don't you? I think there's more politics to this than meets the eye, sadly. When, also, i think of the JRPGs reviewed this generation I also smell a rat. Sure, I'd be the first to say ythe last TRULY great TRUE JRPG I played was probaby Persona4 on PS2. However, the games made this generation have been unfairly lambasted at review in my eyes and several tmes i've played a jrpg thinkin "well, i'll give it a go" after seeing a poor review or ten and then finished the game and found it to be WELL above it's meta in terms of just about everything. Western games tend to get away with more and scrape a seven/ten whereas it seems the fashion to knock a jrpg for any little fault and games as varied as Nier, WKC, Trinity Souls of Zill O'll,Infinite Undiscovery and a ton of others all got a metacritic score a good bit below the one they deserved-some evenb lower than Alpha Protocol for example and none are as poor at what they set out to do as that game was in my eyes and I'm sure we can all point to a few games that ended up around a 70 on Meta from western devs that were pants while we played a few Japanese games getting that or lower that seemed a lot better. Is it just a fashion?
I hate the way DMCseems to be being reigned in by Capcom and worry that they got NT in because they think the can make it more subtle when that's exactly what we don't want. Again,though, who really has a grip on this one?
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 10:28:55 PM
I see where you're coming from. It would seem that Western reviewers are becoming increasingly hostile toward Japanese games.
But I'm happy to say that a number of such games that have been treated poorly by Western reviewers have done well sales-wise regardless.
It would seem that the reviewers can do all the hating they want because as long as we, the dedicated fans of Japanese games, continue to support them then what the Western reviewers think doesn't matter.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 6/27/2011 10:29:34 PM
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Kevin555
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 8:29:05 AM
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I mean they also made Siren Blood Curse (purely Japanese horror back on PS2)Western this gen....WTF leave it how it was.
I will always feel bitter about what became of Silent Hill & i will never believe how the old school horror of RE1 to RE3 became what it has today in RE5, they're almost like completely separate games instead of being part of the same series. Todays Gears of War Resi Evil is a far cry from RE2, which will most likely remain as arguably the best RE for it's time.
In a nutshell, I just wish they would let Japanese games be Japanese games; we love you the way you are.
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kevinater321
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 9:02:13 AM
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Excelsior1
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:10:19 AM
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it seems the rise of military shooters on the consoles(360 in particular) have hurt japanese games. japanese developers see those 20 million cod sales and are willing to throw out their traditdional ways of making games becuase they covet those sales so much.
i'm not saying it's the 360's fualt. gamers' tastes have changed a lot since last gen. unfortunately for japanese developers the hot genre is in a type of game they aren't exactly known for.
that does not mean the market for their type of games isn't still there. it's just smaller in comparison.
i still think the biggest reason for the japanese game indusrty decline is leadership. they just can't seem to figure this gen out.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 6/27/2011 11:30:54 AM
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:49:30 AM
But I think that the main reason Japanese games aren't as popular as they used to be is the emergence of instant-gratification gaming. It's likely not a coincidence that a number of Western RPG franchises have become more and more action-oriented and less and less RPG such as Fallout, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age.
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Highlander
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 11:59:23 AM
Regarding more action oriented western RPGS - True Dat.
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The Doom
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 12:02:24 PM
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mastiffchild
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 7:27:22 PM
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Then, look at Sega and their p[atheti western support for the successful in Japan Yakuza series(we had to fight to get a western release, Sega always complain it doesn't do well here yet NEVER once gave it anything like a marketing push and stocking is often a joke. then we have games like SOTD which even when published by a BIG western company there's poor stocks of the game and ZREO advertising. Where I live I've YET to see an ad for the game.
Whether it's the cost of making HD games that made Japanese devs so self conscious IDK but the talent and games are still there it's just they seem loathe to rally let their games go for it in the west yet companies like Atlus have been doing just fine B doing exactly that. Why EA are failing to support a game reviewing well, playing better and made by two massive names is beyond me too-I dunno what's gong on here and I remember thinking things loked bad when Ninty refused to release Fatal Frame 4 out here-a great game in a series with a ready following in the west. Times are crazy.
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Looking Glass
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 8:04:45 PM
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Douchebaguette
Monday, June 27, 2011 @ 7:54:06 PM
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I believe all Japanese designers & publishers should listen to Kojima and start catering for their own country. Just like the opposite sex that prefers a sense of confidence in one's character, strengthening their own unique elements within their development would prove much more beneficial for their own creativity and probably commerical success rather than trying to immitate Western themes then failing miserably.
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SethB
Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 10:54:29 AM
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I used to play JRPG's back in the NES through PS1 days, but the repetition of character archetypes and story lines made me detest the genre. I am in my 30's now, and I have zero interest in playing a game that revolves around teenagers with daddy/mommy issues that have to save the world. These type of games have put a stigma on Japanese games, whether correctly or incorrectly it is there. I know I have a bias towards them, as I will avoid any game that even looks remotely anime-styled.
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yuanyao
Thursday, June 30, 2011 @ 9:25:51 PM
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darkdirtydwarf
Friday, July 01, 2011 @ 2:57:39 AM
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Clamedeus
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Sunday, June 26, 2011 @ 9:44:45 PM