Rumor: Production On PS4 Starts Soon, Launch In 2012
See Full ImageSony has gone on record saying they have no intention of pursuing another piece of hardware any time soon.
In fact, when asked directly, all Sony executives will say the PlayStation 3 is just getting going, that it has "at least" a 10-year lifespan, and that the PS4 is far off in the distance. Well, if that's true, Taiwan-based component makers have some screwy information.
According to DigiTimes, production will supposedly begin on the PS4 at the end of this year, and will launch in 2012. It will boast movement-based control like Microsoft's Kinect and believe it or not, they even have an estimate for the initial shipment: 20 million units. Now, just for the hell of it, we refer you to the following commercial, long since confirmed as fake:
We make no further comment. What do you think about all this?
Tags: ps4, playstation 4, sony
7/4/2011 9:02:49 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (128 posts)
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:17:17 PM
17 up, 8 down
cLoudou
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:30:16 PM
Last edited by cLoudou on 7/4/2011 10:31:08 PM
11 up, 19 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:33:40 PM
29 up, 3 down
Killa Tequilla
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:15:00 PM
Ben, I apologise in advanced for being off topic but TheHighlander knows it all...
2 up, 2 down
godsman
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:56:23 PM
I agree that PS4 will not come for a while. (I actually believe it's based on the market rather than a set 2014 or whatever. If Wii U sells a lot of units or Xbox releases their next box, it'll change Sony's schedule.)
Kinect simply doesn't work so well. When Kinect was announced, imaginations run wild in my mind of the possibilities of fun games. If you can use the standard controller and add in motion controls with a camera, there's endless possibilities. But... my two hands are glued to the controller, I can't imagine myself throwing the controller to the floor to slap a ball then pick it up again. So the most ideal motion/hardcore gameplay is to break the controller into two pieces... but wait a minute... thats the Move already.
6 up, 1 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:14:57 AM
120 frames per second (which would require a refresh of 120 Hz) is too many frames, the eye can't really distinguish much past 60 frames per second. 60 frames per second displayed at 120hz would be nice. 120HZ TVs use a processing technique to take the 60 frames per second (or 30 frames per second) and video process them to increase the apparent number of frames to full 120 frames per second. It produces a smoother look to the motion on screen. It's not adding any more visual information, but it provides smoother motion on screen as the TV kind of performs an in-betweening process between frames. but the benefit is limited if a game is already rendering at 60 frames per second.
All that said, if it's a case of choosing a new TV and there isn't a huge difference in price, 120Hz is better than 60hz.
9 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:16:09 AM
4 up, 11 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:24:19 AM
17 up, 3 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:31:57 AM
The non-tech people, (who let's face it, are the vast majority of both console owners and media in general) think Kinetic LOOKS more impressive. Even I think so. It simply looks cooler when you can just stand in front of the TV and gesticulate, than to hold a stick with a large glowing dot on.
This, and the very cool demo MS did where they interacted with a girl on the screen. That was impressive back then.
It's not just in the usa kinetic enjoy more attention. It's the same here in europe. Kinetic is much more often mentioned in the general media as an example of the "new technology".
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/5/2011 12:33:40 AM
3 up, 7 down
Dancemachine55
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:50:17 AM
As for Kinect vs Move, there is no doubt that Move is more accurate and better to use with hardcore and casual gaming, but comparing Kinect to the PSeye I believe is wrong.
Please Highlander, if you have any spec knowledge between Kinect and PSeye that shows the PSeye being capable of doing body, limb and even finger tracking in a 3D field with individual body and face recognition, then I would love to hear it.
As for the PSeye, I always thought it was a higher resolution Eyetoy camera that only recognised movement on 2D image feedback. With 2 lens and an infrared sensor, I think the Kinect is a little more than a glorified PSeye camera, even if it is only a gimmick like the Wii remote for now.
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:20:41 AM
Dance machine, the Eyetoy could do limb and body tracking on the PS2, the PSEye can track in a much higher resolution than the EyeToy, and at a faster sampling rate than Kinect. Kinect's 'trick' is to use IR scanning to detect motion and distance from the emitter, but it doesn't really detect in a 3D space. The combination of the IR scan and optical information is used by the Kinect software. Since neither the optical or the infrared sensors has a stereoscopic view, the software combines both data feeds to attempt a 3D tracking, but it's really far, far , far less 3D than you apparently believe.
Regarding tracking of individual finger motion, if you stand perfectly still and move a finger, Kinect might detect it, just as the PS Eye might detect it. But neither of the products uses sufficiently high resolution scanning to reliably detect such small motions, nor can they detect such small motions at the same time as tracking body and limb motion.
As for Australia, isn't it strange that it's the English speaking world that pays far more attention to the English speaking US tech and gaming media, that is entranced by MS? You're making my argument for me with that.
There is very, very, very little that Kinect is capable of that is intrinsic to it's hardware or impractical to do with the PSEye alone. The enhanced ability to detect motion against an indistinct background that Kinect has is based entirely on the infrared scanning - I dare say that is almost the entire reason the infrared scanning is even there since they dropped the stereoscopic scanning. If you want to directly compare Move and Kinect, that very thing is the reason the Move controller with the colored globe is there.
The optical resolution of Kinect and PSEye are identical, the PSEye scans at double the rate of Kinect. When it comes to the optical component, PSEye has Kinect beat. Neither product can track in a 3D space optically except through the use of perspective. Kinect's infrared sensor gives the distance between the motion source and the emitter, but that's it. It's not tracking in 3D it's interpolating the position based on the distance and position in the optical field of view. The PSEye can do something similar with it's own optical tracking and the 3D microphone array which can track the position of sound sources relative to the camera.
No offense, but you're sounding a little more than defensive of Kinect, which technologically is not particularly impressive, and thus far hasn't done anything that the PSEye can't do. Voice commands? Yep. Gesture command? Yep. Facial recognition? Yep. Finger tracking? Show me that actually working with Kinect outside perfect lab conditions with a highly contrasting background. But I will say that I have played EyeToy games that included sufficiently detailed tracking to show my hand shape and finger positions on the screen as I was controlling the action, so I have to say that EyeToy and PSEye both can track finger motion. But I doubt either technology can do it reliably enough to provide control input during a game that involves large movements.
Last edited by Highlander on 7/5/2011 1:21:56 AM
13 up, 1 down
Qubex
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:58:34 AM
The 1st text was by a user on Euro Gamer responding to another user.
Some interesting points are raised.
The 2nd is from a former Sony executive; equally interesting...
I am sure Sony is thinking similarly... and are aware of the threats..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1]
@moritz666 - three years, four at the outside, and tablets / phones will be able to run games on a par graphically with todays titles. Take the PSP Vita as a glimpse into that future, the internals are basically doubled up from what Apple currently ships in the iPad (and will probably ship in the next iPhone and iPod Touch). In fact Apple may just jump past it in terms of raw specs next year if they do decide to go for a retina display in the iPad 3 as they'd need that sort of grunt to drive the screen.
As for the rest... why do people seem to assume that just because you're using (for instance) an iPhone that it'll be touch control only? On-live is coming to both iOS and Android this year with a bluetooth-connected controller so technically there's no reason that physical controls can't be realised. Same goes for the quality and depth of the games. While there's currently far more '5 minute' games than in-depth stuff there IS a significant chunk of high quality, more traditional gaming available and if the market for that content grows then more titles will become available over time. Let's not forget that we're only three years into this whole mobile gaming thing and compare what's available now to what was on offer two years ago...
Looking ahead we've got obvious jumps in graphics and processor power coming and Apple have already come up with a solution to get your games onto a TV (or any screen with a HDMI input for that matter) with similar solutions surely on the way from Andriod, Windows Phone etc. Storage capacities should keep expanding and we're increasingly moving to cloud-based services to sync and obtain content. Why shouldn't your phone (or tablet or media player or whatever) become a full-fledged games console replacement? Or is this just an Apple thing, would the same complaints be levelled at Microsoft building a phone that let developers port Xbox or 360 titles to it, sent that content to any DLNA-equipped screen and allowed a 360 controller to connect to the phone? That's genuine curiosity by the way as the idea of being able to take your games with you anywhere and pick up where you left off on any screen is very appealing to me personally and I'm not sure where the hostiility comes from.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2]
Apple "will be the games industry" in ten years, ex-Sony boss Phil Harrison believes.
The iPhone and iPad manufacturer, if left unchecked, will rule the gaming space in a decade, Harrison told Edge.
"At this trajectory, if you extrapolate the market-share gains that they are making, forward for ten years... there's a pretty good chance that Apple will be the games industry."
Harrison's reasoning? The speed with which Apple hardware is being swiped off of shop shelves, and the growth of iOS as a viable gaming platform.
"In the proliferation of devices - you've got iPhones, iPads, iPods, which are all part of the same ecosystem; the speed at which Apple sold 15 million iPads is phenomenal," he said. "And the number one activity on an iPad, according to some reports, is games, and I think that will only continue."
Harrison also praised the ease of purchasing content on Apple devices, making acquiring games easy for the consumer. "You see something on the App Store, you click a button, the product delivers to your device. That end-to-end shopping experience, if you want to call it that, has been so elegantly built by Apple and they will continue to refine it."
Harrison was a pivotal figure within Sony, helping to launch the original PlayStation in 1996. He ascended to president of Sony Computer Entertainment's Worldwide Studios, before quitting the company in February 2008.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think guys?
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
Last edited by Qubex on 7/5/2011 1:59:11 AM
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:11:41 AM
We're not really disagreeing here, I'm just trying to explain why Kinetic is the more impressive looking thing from the general audience point of view. I know nothing about the Kinetic technology. My focus is on the impression, not on the spec.
Although I must admit, it sounds a bit too simplistic to say that the Kinetic is about as capable as an average webcam (the pseye). I've never tried the kinetic, hardly *seen* it in real life even, but what I've read is that they've connected the kinetic to a PC and been able to write software for it, and found new usage for it. Surely that must mean it's capable of much more than just a cam alone.
Again, I know nothing about the actual technology, I just draw conclusions from what I read, my impressions as a regular, non kinetic user. Just like *many* others out there.
I'd like to finish with a quote, "There is no greater disaster than to underestimate the enemy".
5 up, 2 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:21:35 AM
But never mind the OS discussion, iOs or Android is of lesser importance.
Yesterday I played a fully fledged mmorpg on my mobile phone. A full, online rpg, meeting hundreds of other players in a 3D environment, with full chat and interaction. On my mobile phone! It was surreal.
How many mmorpg's are found on the ps3 yet? *one*! In this picture the consoles really appear to be some old fashioned dinosaurs, *still* focusing on simple deathmatch style multiplayer gaming, something that was introduced to gaming like... 15 years ago?
But in this matter I am more worried about the Vita. The launch lineup for Vita is, as far as I can tell, purely "yesterdays gaming". It could just as well have been a lineup for the psp.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/5/2011 2:30:04 AM
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:44:56 AM
Apple is building up to a big fall, so I don't see them as the future, regardless of Phil Harrison's comments. Not to mention I don't put a lot of stock in his comments anyway. Nor do I put any stock in Onlive satisfying anything but casual gaming, the platform cannot handle the video throughput or control latency.
Beamboom,
The fact that you can connect the Kinect accessory to a PC is not unique nor is the provsion of developer support. Nor does that make Kinect somehow inherently more advanced than PSEye. If you look at the technology involved, Kinect consists of a simple webcam with a microphone and an IR emitter/receiver, it can track movement in the optical frame, and use infrared to enhance motion detection and range finding. The IR system isn't 3D so Kinect cannot track spatially in 3D, the camera system does no processing of it's own, that is all handled by the Xbox 360 in software. The IR data provides better depth information than can be obtained using geometry on a purely optical feed.
The PSEye consists of a camera with the same optical resolution as Kinect, but double the scan rate, and it features a 3D array of multiple microphones rather than a single microphone. The PSEye does no processing of it's own, the rest is done in software. The depth data with the PSEye is created by the software based on the geometry in the optical field. The microphones can be used to track the position of a sound source. That's the only advantage that the Kinect system has over the PSEye on it's own. If you throw in the single Move controller, things begin to change. I believe that the PSEye can similarly be connected to a PC (I've done it) and I remember reading that Sony was producing a Move dev library for PCs as well. So... Kinect is no more or less advanced than Move, or the PSEye, both are solutions to the same issue - capturing player movement as input to a game.
My problem in all of this, Beamboom, is that although you may not have seen it 6-7 years ago on the PS2, most tech journalists did, and yet these are the same lemmings currently jumping off the cliff over how revolutionary Kinect is, when they already know that's not the case. There are millions of gamers who didn't have an EyeToy on their PS2, but you know what, that doesn't make Kinect any more advanced either. People's perceptions are important, but more so in today's world, the perceptions fed to them by the media that they read/listen to is important. If the US tech/gaming media feeds a predominantly pro-MS message, that is what is heard and repeated by many millions of people looking to others to make their minds up for them. The influence of such media extends broadly wherever English is used as a first language.
6 up, 4 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 3:01:10 AM
But the history is FULL of examples of the lesser product winning a "battle". The world is NOT rational, Highlander, nor analytic. It's emotional.
And the entire "Kinetic VS move+pseye" discussion is this simple to "your typical consumer":
Alt. 1: You use your body, hands free, to interact with the game.
Alt. 2: You hold a light stick in front of a webcam.
That's how it is perceived! No discussion about frame rate, resolutions or the number of microphones. To the general public, it really boils down to those two observations.
Or, to use a language my kid would probably have used, "the Move looks lame". The consumer has spoken.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/5/2011 3:05:56 AM
8 up, 1 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:07:56 AM
9 up, 2 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:18:33 AM
3 up, 5 down
jaybiv
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:25:10 AM
Another reason is this fanboy era we now live in. Apple has proved if you build it they will come. iPhone refreshes are gobbled up every year. The same is true for consoles. Many if you stated you are not ready to upgrade, but there are millions other who are.
Sony knows it has to move first. I wouldn't put more than $20 on this rumor, however I would not be shocked if it is true.
Last edited by jaybiv on 7/5/2011 8:36:23 AM
1 up, 0 down
The Doom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:30:12 AM
No he's right. The majority of consumers (espeically in the US) aren't very smart. A lot of them are simple-minded and don't do research on things that they buy (Bestbuy knows this so they charge over $100 to help install the PS3's freaking firmware for them).
Although this isn't exactly related to gaming, there was an experiement done in which families had to cut off their TV cable and watch Netflix (on the internet, apple tv, xbox (no PS3 for some reason)) for a whole week. The results from it were surprising: Some of them said they would rather be told what to watch instead of choose whatever show they wanted. Some even said they would rather pay $1200 a year for cable instead of the $7-8 a month for Netflix.
In general a lot of consumers buy something just because the commericals were 'cool', it was marketed non-stop, and because their friends bought it; this is THE reason why things like Call of Duty get so many sales.
Last edited by The Doom on 7/5/2011 9:31:23 AM
5 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:17:03 AM
1 up, 1 down
Deleted User
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:17:34 PM
Why do you keep calling it "Kinetic"? It's Kinect. Unless they call it something else in other countries.
5 up, 1 down
CanadianGuy420
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:59:15 PM
0 up, 1 down
Dreno
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 9:58:22 PM
Reply
First, I'm not ready for a ps4. I love my ps3. And I'm very content with it for more years to come. Just keep giving us awesome games.
And 2, with the comment about it have motion like the kinect, that just sounds uber bad. If its controls are like the kinect it rather sounds like sony is trying to aim for the newer gaming generation. Kinda like the direction wii took.
Sony, please stick with what you do best. Don't try to emulate your competitors. You've got a winning formula, and its one that I've been a fan of for years. Please just keep sticking with the ever so faithful hardcore gaming group and don't try to nab the other types by making your console fit to them.
If anything, just give them some games to play. Don't design the console with them in mind.
( I may be mistaken but that's what ik took from the read ) so, if I was mistaken, I would appreciate it if anyone could correct me. Dear god I hope I was wrong.
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:12:54 PM
3 up, 1 down
Dreno
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:25:23 PM
I like the ps move. Cause you have the option of using it or the sixaxis.
But if the only way to control the game was "kinect like" id be rrather bummed out.
And speaking of motion control, I'm getting ready tol pick up the moves navigation controler so I can play some heavy rain via move.
Can anyone tell me if its even more sick than it is now?
0 up, 2 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:35:24 PM
6 up, 0 down
godsman
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:01:13 AM
I say if the next PS4 will have these motion control functions built in, it's alright. It doesn't hurt to have 3D on my PS3, even though when I don't use it, as long as it's free. If they start charging me extra for useless functionalities like Kinect, I'm passing.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:45:56 AM
0 up, 0 down
matt99
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:02:10 PM
Reply
1 up, 1 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:15:44 PM
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:26:45 PM
...I don't see why they would alter that course, it has served them well, enabling them to go **5 years** with a single console product that has been relevant in each new media technology generated since it launched...
Catching up with my incoherent typing last night...
0 up, 0 down
NoSmokingBandit
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:14:06 PM
Reply
PSX: Crash 1, Crash 2, Crash 3(warped), CTR
PS2: Jak 1, Jak 2, Jak 3, Jak X Racing
PS3: Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3, ???
I see ND making a spinoff game for the ps3 before this generation is out. That means at least 2 more years.
I hope this generation lasts a long time though, the ps3 still has a lot to offer.
3 up, 1 down
cLoudou
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:28:21 PM
4 up, 1 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:36:30 PM
0 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:36:40 PM
Reply
Look, the PS4 is definitely coming, but it ain't in 2012. I'm sure the project exists somewhere in the minds of Sony's great thinkers. They are figuring out how to expand on the PS3 architecture in the best ways to accommodate what software will be able to achieve in the future but no there's just no way anyone is manufacturing the components this early.
The sole hardware focus of Sony will be with Vita. It would be a poor business decision to release a PS4 in 2012 and decimate their potential PS3 and Vita customer market.
10 up, 0 down
Aura7541
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:05:31 PM
3 up, 0 down
matt99
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:17:22 AM
1 up, 0 down
SoulController
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:44:26 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
NonProphet
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:46:18 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 10:48:41 PM
Last edited by Highlander on 7/4/2011 10:49:12 PM
3 up, 0 down
Norrin Radd
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:09:30 PM
Reply
PS2 = 2000
PS3 = 2006
PS4 = 2012?
Seems like new hardware releases every 6 years. And, FWIW, the PSX & PS2 were supported in the market 10+ years each - long after it's successor hit the market. Just observations. I have no idea if this rumor is true or not. But I refuse to ignore it could be possible just because I'm not ready for it in 2012. I guess we'll see at the next E3.
5 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:19:51 AM
4 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:40:07 AM
I'm catching up!
3 up, 0 down
Nas Is Like
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:17:36 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
CanadianGuy420
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:25:08 PM
Reply
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/5/2011 12:44:37 AM
3 up, 5 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:20:27 AM
4 up, 4 down
Nas Is Like
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:21:46 AM
8 up, 5 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:26:12 AM
Last edited by Highlander on 7/5/2011 12:28:11 AM
7 up, 6 down
Nas Is Like
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:33:24 AM
I didn't say it was perfectly ok, I'm just asking if you were honestly offended by that. Like, if you are, then the Internet is not the place for you (there's a lot worse stuff out there).
I agree though, his reply isn't very good and doesn't really add much, but you still shouldn't be offended or start to get upset over it. Don't worry about it, be happy and move on.
10 up, 2 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:44:59 AM
But whatever...don't do that.
4 up, 0 down
Nas Is Like
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:58:39 AM
9 up, 0 down
Clamedeus
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 6:17:50 AM
Last edited by Clamedeus on 7/5/2011 6:18:05 AM
1 up, 1 down
CanadianGuy420
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:13:10 AM
Last edited by CanadianGuy420 on 7/5/2011 8:16:25 AM
3 up, 1 down
CanadianGuy420
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:17:50 AM
3 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:58:46 AM
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:24:03 AM
5 up, 1 down
CanadianGuy420
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 11:56:03 AM
2 up, 0 down
karneli lll
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:45:30 PM
Reply
Perhaps if we track the origin of the rumor we'll find ourselves in a gamestop
1 up, 2 down
TheAgingHipster
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:46:07 PM
Reply
....wait, who am I kidding? I'd buy it day one.
0 up, 0 down
tes37
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 11:58:07 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Wraith
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:04:11 AM
Reply
1 up, 1 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:06:58 AM
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:50:10 AM
2 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:21:58 AM
Highlander: Nothing I can do about that. Sorry. :)
1 up, 3 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:03:10 AM
I'm not sure if people think they're funny or original or something when they say things like that. Most every joke that is rude has been done before, anyways. Most people recognize that he really isn't funny at all.
4 up, 0 down
ceedot
Friday, July 08, 2011 @ 3:29:10 AM
0 up, 0 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:16:00 AM
Reply
With an estimated launch shipment of 20 million units, that's rather excessive. It's possible if it launches at a VERY affordable price and Sony market it with an aggressive campaign, but I don't really see that. I mean... it took something like two and a half years for the PS3 to hit that mark. What are the odds of the PS4 managing it in six months (usually regarded as a reasonable launch window, yes?)
As for the camera, I'm not thinking of it as a Kinect-alike. If it's being integrated into the device, doesn't it make sense that Sony are going to be utilising motion sensing as a core part of their next console, and that basically states that it's a revised version of the PSEye? I mean... that's really all the Kinect is anyway; an Eye with an IR camera... With this, Sony would be plugging the camera directly into the undoubtedly stupidly powerful processor which would allow a much greater degree of capture finesse. Eh, whatever. I'm not believing it until I see it on stage at GamesCom/TGS/CES/whatever the hell trade show Sony chooses to unveil it.
Also, why would they take away from the Vita with a new home console?
Peace.
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:47:42 AM
Sony recently went on record acknowledging that their focus on the PS3 when the PSP was young hurt the PSP. Given that recognition, I find it nigh on impossible that Sony would release the Vita in late 2011/early 2012 and then follow up immediately with the PS4 later in 2012. That would be a terrible shift of focus that could doom the Vita overnight. Since they recognize the impact of that on the PSP, I just don't see it happening.
Last edited by Highlander on 7/5/2011 2:49:25 AM
3 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 3:13:03 AM
This is about the Vita!
0 up, 0 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 3:28:59 AM
As for the PS4 harming the Vita, you also have to take into consideration that Sony have admitted they made a mistake in creating the PSP as a portable console and have remedied that with the multiple PORTABLE pieces of Vita. If they do go through with this, it'll because Sony doesn't regard Vita as a portable console, but that would be a silly assumption on their part.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:16:25 AM
1 up, 0 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:53:57 AM
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/308551/news/gamers-were-not-getting-much-unique-on-psp-admits-sony-boss/
Last edited by Lawless SXE on 7/5/2011 4:54:16 AM
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:33:23 AM
That's one of the major reasons I don't think we'll see PS4 in 2012.
0 up, 0 down
dillonthebunny
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:59:04 AM
Reply
fact is that they have probably been working on the PS4 as long as they have been thinking about it.
The industry moves so fast at times that Sony know only too well that they must keep a step ahead.. they rested between the PS2 and PS3 and look what that caused, I would bet that several people got their knuckles wrapped after that one..
will the PS4 come out in 2012.. I doubt it, but it would be naive to suggest that they wont be pushing the dev on this one. Could it be released in 2012? who knows.. but just look at Sonys track record with improving technology year after year with products like the walkman! and then to look at what they did with the PS1, PS2 and now PS3.. not forgetting the leap from PSP to PSV, they are pushing the envelope..
I wouldn't be surprised if they were ready sooner than people think, but its not about that.. its all about timing, they will release it when they think its time and they will try not to make the same mistakes twice.
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Qubex
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 5:18:27 AM
I think you are right, in the developers have been actively working with Sony on the specifications of the new PS4... in fact, the more they deny it, the more it is true I think...
Whatever is said, I think we may see a BIG BIG announcement at E3 2012. I am sure Sony HAS TO cover themselves strategically if M$ pulls a digital rabbit out of the bag and announces the YESBOX!
I tell you the next YBOX is going to be powerful... they will not want to play second fiddle. They can see Sony is hurting a little with the way this gaming environment is shifting and they will go for the jugguler...
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
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Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 7:36:57 AM
Or do you think that would put them too far behind?
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/5/2011 7:37:27 AM
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jaybiv
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:50:16 AM
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:41:40 AM
Vita needs a clear year of it's own as the focus.
Sony is still learning security lessons from the PS3.
PS3 is not yet tapped out.
The longer they wait the more powerful the system will be for the least dollars possible.
I think Sony has a potential design based on an upgraded cell design and new nVidia GPU with lots more memory. It would be a low cost evolution of the current design and build on everything that they have struggled to do with the PS3. If Sony had to jump early, I believe that's what you'll see from them.
If Sony get's to wait longer, I'm not so sure any more. i still believe it will be an evolution of the PS3, with each passing quarter, the potential performance of the potential PS4 would increase with developments in the GPU design and possible CPU contender from IBM (Power 7 with some SPUs added somewhere). But, I am also wondering whether Sony might be the one to jump on the latest push by ARM to get into larger desktop and server systems. With the Vita using quad core ARM and a quad GPU, If Sony went with a very powerful ARM based system they could conceivably have games that would be built once and run on either Vita or PS4. That might be a very attractive option to them. There are so many potential options including keeping the CellBE as a service processor to handle User interface, security, network and PS3 compatibility.
At this point, I'm itching to know a bit more about what they are doing, but I'm happy to wait two or three more years for a new system.
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Ultimadream
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:02:32 AM
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xnonsuchx
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:21:31 AM
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___________
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 5:08:07 AM
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dont need it yet.
every generation of consoles have brought us a new format, something we did not have before.
ps1 gave us 3D games, ps2 brang early networking capabilities, ps3 brought HD.
so what will ps4 bring to the table that ps3 could not?
ok obviously better graphics, but that does not warrant a new console, every new system brings a new feature, a new format.
so what will the ps4 bring to say you have to buy me?
were a long way from resolution hikes, so what could the ps4 bring to justify a new system?
nothing right now.
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xnonsuchx
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 5:30:39 AM
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Excelsior1
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 6:04:48 AM
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Beamboom
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 6:17:00 AM
... And higher capacity cpus allowing for more advanced AI across the entire playfield.
Yeah, the PS3 is starting to show it's age... But still, I don't *want* a new Playstation yet. I got a PILE of games that only grows every month, it'll take years just to finish those!
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/5/2011 6:17:29 AM
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___________
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:59:58 AM
anyway, that wont be enough to convince people to go spend another 500+ bucks on a new system after dropping that only 5 or so years prior.
its a nice feature, not something that says you must buy me.
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:46:49 AM
The future belongs to digital delivery, but that requires something that no console manufacturer can make happen - ubiquitous very high speed broadband.
The next iteration of console will be capable of 1080p60 in all games (unless game designers over do things as usual) and even 3D at 1080p. But there's no need for a new media for that. In fact, if anything, the next iteration of console will have everyone on a BluRay like media. After all this generation was dominated by DVD, just as the last one was, only Sony jumped to a new media.
I think the big thing will be 1080p everything along with lots moer RAM to allow far more complex games. Also I think that the systems will become even more capable as home entertainment centers and web devices as they get more memory. The days of the living room PC may be numbered indeed.
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___________
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 9:04:49 AM
what i meant was what will make people buy it?
ps1 had new style of games.
ps2 brought the first internet capability, and advanced graphics.
ps3 brought HD and 3D and a more advanced online area.
when i say these consoles i mean there generation, so ps1 era, ps2 era, ps3 era.
so what would the ps4 era bring, to justify the 500+ price tag?
as i said before there are plenty things that would do that, but there no where near ready.
ray tracing,higher resolution, digital only, streaming, just to name a few.
but neither of those things are ready, wont be for a while, so again what will the next generation of consoles bring to make people drop there hard earned cash?
i cant see every game supporting 1080P @ 60FPS and larger scaled games making people say yes i have to go out and spend another 500+ bucks on a new system, plus more on controllers, chargers, ect ect.
speaking of ray tracing ive been playing around with design garage a tech demo released by nvidia which lets you play around with a few effects and lighting system with ray tracing.
my god, just the lighting effects are amazing!
for example you have a veyron sitting next to 2 glass buildings, and looking in the chrome vents you can see the buildings.
never have i seen such realistic and detailed lighting effects!
long way away from being used in games, ive got 2 570 GTXs and i cant run the tech demo very well everytime i move the camera it drops to 0FPS and i have to wait 30+ seconds for it to re render.
amazing though, still picking my jaw off the floor!
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Highlander
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 9:57:55 AM
I agree, I don't really see a compelling reason to upgrade, even if the WiiU arrives with games running mostly in 1080p, most consumers will not really notice the difference - yet. 1080p is still making inroads in the TV market, and in the next few years I think it will be in enough homes that it might have a subtle effect in terms of preference over 720p, but 720p is so much better than 480i, that I think people are still seeing 720p in a very good light.
Interesting comments about ray tracing. The thing about ray tracing is that current GPUs might not be the best suited devices to run ray tracing operations. A more fleshed out FP unit is required (IIRC). So a quad cluster of CellBEs might be capable or raytracing in real time at a decent resolution, where your 570GTXs are struggling. What resolution where you working at?
I think that there is also a of of optimization possible for the specific implementation. Everything I've ever read about Ray tracing suggests that a lot of the lighting, particle and material effects that we struggle with now, are handled as part of the ray tracing operation, so we wouldn't have all the traditional elements to a game engine with ray tracing. The potential trade offs look very attractive to me. If a game engine could essentially be a ray tracing engine with a full screen anti-aliasing and filtering pass before display, it may be possible on the coming generation to ray trace at 720p.
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___________
Thursday, July 07, 2011 @ 8:48:26 AM
the cars themselves dont look that good, seen better in games like iracing and such.
but the lighting effects, i mean i have never played anything that actually has realistic reflections.
just the lighting effects, something we have never seen before really blew me away!
absolutely there are optimizations to be made both software and hardware wise, but i doubt we will be seeing ray tracing games running anytime soon.
remember this is a tech demo with a car and 2 buildings thats it.
not exactly much for the engine to render.
games....... well there a whole other kettle of fish!
ive always been doubtful of ray tracing only because of the costs it needs to run properly, but after seeing that tech demo i am a believer.
once everyone has access to supercomputers at a affordable budget.
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Danny007
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:18:39 AM
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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 9:51:12 AM
I think Sony is in a tough spot right now. I don't believe they can let MS get a head start on the next generation. The US market is still an issue for them so they cannot make too many mistakes like they did early on in this generation.
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Gone
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 8:54:21 AM
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Sir, you got any spare change?
Would you like fries with that?
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DVE2k
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:03:40 AM
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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:21:37 AM
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The Wii-U has already been presented, although with very little detail. MS will probably annonce the new XBOX soon (what type of physical media will they use?) as the 360 will be 6 years old this fall. Although the PS3 is making up ground on the XBOX 360 in worldwide sales, Kinect is outselling the Move.
Maybe Sony knows what MS is planning with the new XBOX if MS is going the Blu-Ray route. I don't believe it is in Sony's best interest to release too late after the new XBOX releases. In my opinnion, it would be better if Sony can release at the same time, or even before MS.
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:53:00 AM
If MS jumps early, and Sony doesn't launch a new system at the same time, they could produce a physically different PS3 with some additional hardware capability. Possibly even throw the PS2 compatibility back into the box and pitch it as the complete PlayStation that can play PS1, PS2, PS3 and PSP games (yes I included PSP).
If Sony were to do that, and keep the price down, I think that they could do very well. remember even though both consoles are capable of 1080p, most gamers are enjoying their 720p experience at this point, and a very large fraction of PS3 and 360 owners don't even had an HDTV. So even if the 360 suddenly jumped to 1080p, most gamers wouldn't care because the difference between 1080p and 720p is much less obvious than the difference between 480i and 720p.
Imagine a $200 PS3 with complete backwards compatibility vs a 1080p capable Xbox that costs considerably more. Which sells more systems in your mind?
Last edited by Highlander on 7/5/2011 10:54:18 AM
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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 11:53:42 AM
But if MS releases a true next generation system and Sony waits, third party developers will have the time to figure out how to get the most out of the new XBOX first. Then the same issue will occur as this gen, multi-console next gen games will be better on the XBOX therefore increasing sales of the XBOX. And lets face it, MS counts on third party games being better on their system as they have very few first party developers under their wing. Some of them (like EPIC and possibly Lionhead ... are they owned by MS?) could go multi-console in the future if they so choose.
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:30:54 PM
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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:06:04 PM
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Gone
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:17:18 PM
They could make the graphics so realistic that it feels like you are playing a live action movie in QF-HDTV(3840x2160p) using Holographic Disc(HVD).
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:33:15 PM
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Spanky
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:32:32 AM
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maxpontiac
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 10:55:43 AM
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Deleted User
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 12:21:03 PM
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Of course, if Microsoft starts talking about their next big American Console in a few days, maybe there would be some weight to the rumor.
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Maruf
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 1:51:41 PM
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I play mostly on PC and when I saw Uncharted 2 I was kind of disappointed as there were many object and good lighting but texture details were unimpressive. I noticed similar problem with other games on PS3. Multiplatform games generally look better on xbox 360 than PS3 as well. That should serve my point to some extent, I think. In general, console graphics don't catch my eye much and PS3 happens to be less so.
What Sony should figure out is what would make a balanced system in terms of configuration. If they don't get that right and get another ill balanced system out just for the sake of launching into next gen before Microsoft, they are going to make the same mistake again and will have to pay for it for another 8/10 years.
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Highlander
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 2:20:21 PM
Not sure what planet you're on, but Uncharted 2's graphics were on the better side of awesome. The problem with multi-platform games has been that a game designed for one platform doesn't translate well to another unless they use very similar architectures. The 360 and PS3 do not. A game optimized for the PS3 looks as good or better than anything that the 360 is capable. a poorly optimized port of a multi-platform title will, sadly, look inferior. But that proves nothing except the fact that ports of multi-platform games have often been very poorly executed.
The RAM in the PS3 runs at the same speed as the processor core, it's very high speed memory and there's no less memory in the PS3 than the 360. Both systems are underspecified by comparison with PCs, but since neither of them has to run Windows, that's not such an issue. 6 years ago when the design of the PS3 was finalized a decision was taken to go with the high performance memory rather than larger memory. The high performance XDR memory was too costly to allow more than what is in the system. Comparing console system memory to that in a modern PC is such a false comparison, there's no point even commenting further.
Incidentally, the 360 although it has 512MB of total memory (as does the PS3) uses a unified memory architecture, which sounds great - unless you start pushing higher resolutions, and then the amount of memory partitioned off for the screen grows and the amount of system memory shrinks. depending on the game, the 360 can consume 256MB or more for video work leaving it with less than 256MB of system memory for the game. In other words, neither offers a particular advantage.
As far as balance is concerned, the PS3 is far better balanced than you apparently think. The fact is that the CellBE, and RSX work well when used in concert. Balance isn't about having a homogeneous architecture. Balance is about having the right combination of resources for the typical workload. Video games and media processing suit the Cell architecture extremely well.
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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 5:22:17 PM
It's also entirely untrue that all multiplatform titles look better on the 360, especially when we take the last few years into account. Also, considering there isn't anything on the 360 that can compare to the best PS3 exclusives in terms of technical achievement, I fail to see why you glossed that over as well.
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Alexistheking
Tuesday, July 05, 2011 @ 4:05:04 PM
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xnonsuchx
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 2:00:05 AM
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Cravit8
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 8:46:04 AM
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My question is who then has the incentive to release false news of a PS4, because wouldn't it hurt PS3 sales if a few thousand people decide to wait till next year to get a PS?
*****************
There was a bunch of chat about the PSeye tech vs Kinect. As a professional in the graphics and video industry, I'm telling you that as a camera goes, the PSeye is the weak chain in the Move/motion as it captures 120fps at a meager 320x240 pixels. This simply isn't adequate enough, regardless of what algorithms the PS3 has to work with. For the love of all that is sane, DO NOT confuse resolution and fps lense/sensor capability with what is displayed on the screen...they are apples and broccoli. We all know the PS3 computing power is awesome. Sony could have easily released just a better camera (and marketing) to blow Kinect out of the water with both a Move and hands-free because the PS3 has all the computing power it needs.
We do not need a new console to get hands-free from Sony, however, IMHO we need a new console because we need a better video card.
Also, I have 4 friends who own PS3, none have mentioned interest in the Move. I have 10 friends who have Xbox and some who want an xbox and all of them talk about getting Kinect, or how it looks cool. (Media bias and marketing perception).
Last edited by Cravit8 on 7/6/2011 9:21:40 AM
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Highlander
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 10:24:29 AM
As for the PSEye, You're wrong on one extremely important count. The resolution of the camera and framereate.
Yes, one of the modes that the PSEye can capture at is a meager 320x240 pixels with 120fps. IF that was it, you would be completely correct, it would be a weak link.
However, the PSEye has DOUBLE that resolution. It's normal mode of operation is 640x480 @ 60fps. In contrast the Kinect camera has a best of 640x480 at 30fps.
So, I'm sorry, but your argument about PS3, the PSEye and Kinect is based on a completely false assumption. I don't care what your Xbox owning friends thinkg or how their perceptions are driven by the emperor's new clothes, to me the truth is the truth. And the truth is that you're wrong about the technical aspects and that invalidates the entire technical point you made.
Last edited by Highlander on 7/6/2011 10:27:03 AM
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Cravit8
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 8:29:55 PM
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On the Kinect, I don't know the real reason to why it blows, I always assumed it was really down to the lack of 8 cores.
So just throwing it out there because you're so rash, you are dead wrong about me being dead wrong because I actually know things about cameras. Seriously man, you think they used the PSeye for motion capture for Uncharted? No, they didn't, because it's just a glorified webcam.
Maybe I'm wrong and it actually is adequate for the current crop of games.
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Highlander
Wednesday, July 06, 2011 @ 10:10:04 PM
Having a frame capture rate faster than 60frames per second doesn't gain you anything at all unless you are into high speed photography. Putting a better sensor in teh camera to handle low light better might, but other than that, there's no real benefit to a higher frame capture rate. Your entire post is - IMHO - a red herring.
Last edited by Highlander on 7/6/2011 10:12:45 PM
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Leothebest
Thursday, July 07, 2011 @ 10:17:05 AM
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Ash33
Thursday, July 07, 2011 @ 2:35:48 PM
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Ather
Thursday, July 07, 2011 @ 4:29:55 PM
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SS4
Thursday, July 07, 2011 @ 10:55:34 PM
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We should see a great deal of improvement in graphics as well as in AI(like Ubisoft wanted :P).
Lets hope ppl dont get fooled by M$ big budget campaign again an buy a lower end system in the next gen console(Unless M$ has a breakthrough and actually makes a better console lol)
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Highlander
Reply
Monday, July 04, 2011 @ 9:50:05 PM
First of all Sony already has Move, which they are pushing ahead with strongly. Secondly, Move is a super-set of Kinect functionality. Thirdly, Sony is launching Vita this year and has openly recognized that they distracted themselves and the market away from the PSP with the PS3 emphasis. Fourth, Sony has stated more or less across the board that they won't be talking about PS4 for a long while, and fifth, if Sony was gearing up to release the PS4 in 2012, they'd already have talked about it.
However I want to come back to the comment about Kinect. The article says (according to DigiTimes) "It will boast movement-based control like Microsoft's Kinect". That one statement just kills the entire thing for me. PS3 already boasts a superior motion control technology to Kinect, and has essentially since launch enjoyed the same control options as Kinect by virtue of the PS Eye. Quite apart from Anything else, Kinect is not part of the MS console, it's an add on camera, the console doesn't boast anything additional except a USB port. It doesn't make sense in terms of the technology or reality of the consoles, so I call BS on the entire thing.