PS3 News: Critics Contributing To JRPG Demise? - PS3 News

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Critics Contributing To JRPG Demise?

In our industry, when a game receives mediocre reviews, it really hurts. At the same time, all sorts of titles can become smash successes (regardless of hype) if the critics get behind it.

Now, we all know one thing: when the White Knight Chronicles II reviews start hitting the Internet later this week and into next, you're going to see the same "complaint" quite a bit: "it's just more of the same." Furthermore, you'll hear implications and flat-out statements that say the game is "old-fashioned" or "behind the times" in one way or another.

This is a guarantee. It's going to happen. And we've talked about the effect here at PSXE before; it must have a definite impact on developers. Game makers always look at what's popular because they want to produce something that sells. Even if they remain committed to their original vision(s), they're going to implement various factors that they believe the majority will enjoy. And when the majority of critics are telling you that your game is outdated, and telling the public that we've "advanced" beyond certain mechanics, the result is inevitable: less traditional JRPGs.

Granted, the quality in some JRPGs just doesn't cut it these days. But then again, how do we know what we would've seen if reviewers hadn't worked to squeeze out that style of gameplay? In truth, they've never really liked it and only gave it a free pass when it came to Final Fantasy, so it's not exactly surprising to see 6s for games like White Knight Chronicles II. Of course, that isn't turn-based but it's similar to Final Fantasy XII, which of course is "outdated." Constant real-time twitching is all anybody wants, apparently, and the critics don't appear to be helping.

Related Game(s): White Knight Chronicles II

Tags: wkc2, white knight chronicles ii, white knight chronicles 2

9/5/2011 9:13:32 PM Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (135 posts)

SayWord
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:11:42 PM
Reply

Couldn't agree with you more. It's sad to see the genre of games I enjoy the most not being dominate anymore. This generation is really the only one without a lot of jrpgs, and the truth is probably be the same for the next generation. :(

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:32:15 AM

It's not that it's not dominant, it's that it's damn near dead tanks to Microsoft and a legion of moronic western gaming media types and reviewers who think that the whole world should be shooting each other online.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Raze22
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:02:18 PM

I think there is just not a lot of jrpgs on home consoles and maybe the PSP, but they have plenty on the DS.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

duomaxwell007
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:17:53 PM
Reply

i think its a fad really, by next gen Im sure rpgs will be back to where they were. Also WK C DOES do something different... how many JRPGs that arent mmorpgs can you name that have online multilayer? I cant name more than 5 (dragon quest 10 looks good.. why cant that be a ps3 game....)

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Aura7541
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:18:26 PM
Reply

Ben, I agree with you. For some reason for the White Knight Chronicles series, Eurogamer rated the first game an 8/10 and the second one 5/10. I checked both reviews (with were polarized) and noticed that they were written by two different people. It makes me wonder why Eurogamer didn't just simply made the person who reviewed the first one review the second game, as well.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vitron
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 11:50:58 PM

+1 for that Golden Sun avatar. That was a good RPG


Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:08:09 AM

There could be many reasons for that, Aura. Maybe the first reviewer doesn't write for them any more, or Eurogamer thought he rated the first too high - after all the metascore of WKC is 66%.

It's not the review sites main goal to rate every release as high as possible.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:33:10 AM

Don't defend it beamboom, all you're doing is excusing BS and enabling it. The metascore is meaningless, the score that matters is gamer satisfaction and in general among gamers that actually played the game, satisfaction is very high. Sadly though, that score is not measured or published.

Last edited by Highlander on 9/6/2011 9:34:09 AM

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Aura7541
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:21:26 AM

Highlander, I agree with you. And yeah, I don't know why the gamers' reviews are not posted yet considering that Europe already has WKCII released.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:41:25 AM

Exactly Highlander, well said.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:54:35 AM

@Highlander; You know I always prefer to take the opposite stance :)

But seriously, I'm not so sure if the average player satisfaction is that high for wkc. Some, yes, but the majority? I don't know...
As you may recall I was not particularly impressed with it (although I did find it charming). My coop buddy didn't even get past the tutorial before he traded it in (something that pretty much left me out in the cold too, since this was supposed to be played coop).

I know of only one other buddy who has/had it, but I don't think I've seen him play it much at all.
Not that this makes any statistics to base anything on. Not at all. I'm just saying that I seriously doubt that the game has *that* high general gamer satisfaction.
And when no less than 57 independent game sites gives an average of 66% with a huuuge majority of them rating it within the 60-75% range I don't think it is right to just label it as bullshit.

But listen: It's *nothing* wrong in belonging to a minority! Not at all! Why even worry about what others may or may not think about it. You love it, so treasure it!
Who cares if most of them "out there" just don't get it. I think we've already stated that there is no such thing as a universially perfect game anyways. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 11:01:49 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:03:23 AM

Beamboom, I couldn't care less about the Metascore. I don't buy into arguing the opposite for the sake of it, nor do I know whether your friends that you say tried the game had any previous history with JRPGs, nor do I really care. I'm not in a mood to pick this kind of thing apart at the persona preference level because in truth, this is really a discussion that's not limited to WKC, but covered the entire JRPG genre.

Your own comments already in this article display how you feel about the JRPG genre, so there's very little point you and I discussing or arguing any point because a) we'll disagree, and b) I'll get annoyed by a generalization - as I already have.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:19:25 PM

I think that is probably right, Highlander. Good call. Case closed. :)

(but those friends of mine has no jrpg experience from before. Just fyi. There are many, many gamers who are new to jrpgs out there!)

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 12:20:19 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BTNwarrior
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:19:23 PM
Reply

no the lack of next gen graphics in a jrpg is contributing to their decline. All we need is a jrpg that has all the classic goodies and good graphics and they will make their triumphant return

Agree with this comment 7 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:02:57 AM

You can't honestly believe it's the lack of good graphics. FFXIII had amazing graphics.

It's the gameplay and the disappearance of traditional combat mechanics, as any JRPG fan will tell you.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Riku994
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:23:31 AM

The square fingers in FF13 kinda turned me off..

Agree with this comment 2 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:53:31 AM

ffxiii wasnt a jrpg

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ludakriss
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 5:42:50 AM

@World

Oh, come on. You know that it still was an RPG. Well, in a very mangled sense. maybe that's why most of us have this unease when it comes to the title?

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:36:27 AM

i think btnwarrior is on to something. outside of ff13(which scored much higher than most jrpg's this gen) the production values in other jrpgs has been lacking. i don't think wkc even looks like a next gen game. while it can be argued rpgs aren't all about graphics i would argue back that in the past the production values in jrpg's were once sky high and was part of their appeal.

like the other poster said, if we are holding up wkc as the flagship of hd jrpg gaming then it's us that has the problem not the reviewers.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

BTNwarrior
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:56:21 AM

as was stated before me FF13 wasn't a traditional JRPG, and I bet you can't name one traditional JRPG from this generation that has good graphics

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:20:04 AM

BTN: It has nothing to do with graphics. Critics haven't been roundly hating on the sub-genre for many years because of a lack of graphical polish. Period.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:35:32 AM

No offense, but that's a BS excuse. WKC has very good graphics, as does WKC2. It doesn't have the flashy production values of FFXIII, but then how many games do? You're buying into this BS about them being somehow inferior and out of date.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:09:35 AM

If we consider graphics the ultimate scoring factor, then why the hell did GTAIV, RDR, or CoD do so well?

Talk about your double standards, guys.

Gameplay is ALWAYS the main priority.

Don't talk like WKC was awful. It wasn't groundbreaking, sure, but it wasn't awful. Water effects, for example, were done very well in that game.

Block fingers is also hardly a reason to discount FFXIII's technical prowess. Graphically, that game was top notch.

@BTN
That's hardly fair. I can barely name a traditional jRPG at ALL, let alone one that has revolutionary graphics. Additionally, don't act like that's the major factor. It's only a major issue if the graphics are bad.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 10:11:30 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BTNwarrior
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:49:42 AM

I didn't say it that they need revolutionary graphics I'm just saying that they need to have next gen graphics, I mean WKC doesn't even look as good as COD. People will pay attention to a game that looks good, what they won't pay attention to is a game that looks like a ps2 game in HD.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:25:44 PM

They are two completely different genre of game, they look utterly dissimilar because they are utterly dissimilar. It's difficult to compare apples and oranges and say that apples are inferior because they don't look like oranges. But that's precisely what you're doing.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:17:30 PM

If you are going for realism, then of course CoD is better as WKC isn't going for realistic images. It aims for artistic images.

It terms of in-game effects, I think WKC does better. CoD's environments are very pixely (although WKC is as well when the camera is up close to, say, a tree), and when you compare something that -is- similar, like water, for example, WKC looks much better. The water in Balastor Plain, for example, is MUCH better and much prettier than the water in MW2.

As Highlander said, apples and oranges... hard to compare completely different stylings. One thing is for sure, though... CoD4, for example, is weak-sauce graphically. Many PS2 games were better than that. The more recent CoD's are minimum industry standard, as far as I'm concerned. Compared to Gears, Halo, Killzone, and many more, CoD just doesn't compete.

Yet... people seem to enjoy it the most. Clearly, there is something more to gaming than graphics.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:26:22 PM
Reply

When I got a PS3 I got it thinking I would play all the great JRPG series from before only with a graphical upgrade and bigger worlds.

Instead, so far there are no JRPGs because what they do have has been diluted and for some reason shrunk to menus and stuff.

I got news for the critics, CoD doesn't change much either. I'm set in my ways and just want the old awesomeness back. We LIKE our games the way they were.

Agree with this comment 15 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:33:19 PM

+1 I agree.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vitron
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 11:48:57 PM

I was also thinking the same thing when I bought mine...

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:36:09 AM

Play WKC.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:13:07 AM

@Highlander
You didn't hear? World will be joining us in WKC2.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:29:31 AM

Awesome.

:D

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:45:40 AM

Wait wait... wait? Is there a party on WKC that the members here are having. o.o? I wouldn't mind joining that party, but I also need to buy WKC.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:49:48 AM

Oh yes! You can join as many guilds as you want, if you have other friends you want to play with. So join them, AND us!

But we -are- having a PSXE guild. Only requirement is that you're a member here! ^.^ Doesn't matter about skill level. Lots of knowledgeable people here who are good at the game that provide friendly advice on how to advance and level your character.

Once WKC2 is released, shortly after we'll make a guild and post it in the forums.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 10:54:02 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:56:27 AM

Definitely.

The thing I absolutely love about the way WKC handles it's online play is that it's completely co-op. No head to head or deathmatch or anything remotely like that. There are always people around who are helpful and willing to help new players.

As for the guild, as soon as I get my copy of WKC2, and the DLC makes the guilds available, I shall invest in one...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:37:33 AM

That's freakin' fantastic, you can count me in.

I have a question though; If you buy WKC2 does it come with the copy of WKC1? Or do you have to pre-order to get the first game with WKC2?

That's the part that kind of got me confused.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 9/6/2011 11:38:15 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:47:33 AM

White knight chronicles 2 includes the story from White knight chronicles 1, you play the entire story from start to finish as one game, so yes, 2 includes 1.

If you already have 1 all your georama stuff, your avatar, your equipment, items and money come over with you to the new game. The things that don't are your equipment enhancements, your levels past level 35, and the check-marks on your binding list.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:54:56 AM

Ah, ok gotcha. I can't wait to play with you guys on WKC. Which games are you guys playing on first? I haven't played WKC1 as I'm waiting for Sept 13th to get the game with the original.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:26:40 PM

Those that are still playing WKC1 will all switch to WKC2 when it arrives. Just hit us in the forums and get a PSN ID or two.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:28:58 PM

Alrighty sounds like a plan, I'm thinking about playing through the SP for WKC1 first before i go online though so it might take awhile.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Teddie9
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:16:49 PM

yay, count me in too :)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:21:37 PM

No worries. I'm sure I'll want to finish the SP story of WKC2 first as well. Should be good!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:10:40 PM

I'll have the game day 1, whether or not I'm able to play it much is another matter entirely.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Riku994
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:33:45 PM
Reply

I wish I could contribute to the day one sales of WKC2 like I did for he first but with university starting the only game im investing in between now and Christmas is Uncharted 3 :(

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:50:45 PM

I figure I can still get some weekend time in with WKC2 between studies :)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Riku994
Monday, September 05, 2011 @ 10:57:46 PM

I dont trust myself that much :P

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

JackDillinger89
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:24:01 AM
Reply

Well screw the critics. Im pumped for dark souls

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:30:31 AM

...that's not exactly the kind of JRPG we're talking about, even if it's made by a Japanese developer.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:37:20 AM
Reply

"Constant real-time twitching is all anybody wants, apparently, and the critics don't appear to be helping." -> This is the consensus of what so many of you guys keep claiming but the way I see it it's just not right!

Look at the most sold and critically praised releases just this year: LA Noire, Portal 2, DE: Human Revolution, even ME2 while it's action focused battles the rest of the game is anything but twitchy! Or LBP, it can hardly be called twitchy with the focus on user created content?
That's a good share of this years *top* rated, *top* sold games right there!
And on top of that, Limbo is the highest rated PSN game this year!

Yes the market is flooded by a lot of simple, fast paced racing/fighting/shooter style games. But haven't it always been like this, proportionally speaking?
I believe the cause for this is just as much due to the mere fact that it's the simplest and cheapest to design and develop. Every 3D engine on the market is built to handle shooters. So you get a lot "for free" if you design your new game to be a simple shooter.

Again, it's always been like this. The "cheap" games are in the vast majority. But the quality releases are very often anything *but* twitchy!

Just cause the jrpgs seem to be on an all time low doesn't mean that we all has turned into mindless zombies. You can't blame the reviewers either - they are still rewarding quality releases and not only twitchy games.


Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 2:08:00 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 6:00:25 AM

@beamboom

i agee with that. i think a lot of us butthurt jrpg fans just have to face the fact that the quality in jpg titles has dropped considerbly. they have not been very good at all.

all of the games you cited as critically accliamed demonstrates that reviewers and gamers alike will reward quality and depth when they see it. i don't see reviewers as the problem at all.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:21:52 AM

I'm not talking about other genres, BeamBoom. I'm talking about JRPGs, where turn-based mechanics used to be the norm.

All those games you mentioned are real-time. Every single one. You can't find a turn-based game - JRPG or not - because the style is dead. World maps and other elements of RPGs we always used to take for granted are mostly gone.

It's a change in style and the critic belief that anything that plays like a game from a decade ago is bad.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:39:30 AM

Excelsior. Calling anyone names, even including yourself in the classification does not alter the fact that you just insulted a number of people.

I disagree completely with you and beamboom and could counter that you're both butthurt 3rd person action game fanboys.

Beamboom, redefining the discussion and reframing it around 3rd person real time action games, even story heavy ones does not alter one iota of what be said in the article, nor does it counter it.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:13:19 AM

Yes I realize that it's dead, all I'm saying is that reviewers are still rewarding quality releases and that those are not all twitch and burn. That's what I try to point out. Most of the top sellers this year has properties that indicate that both the buying public *and* the press welcome these elements.

I mean, you can't put the blame on reviewers for not reviewing games that does not exist, can you?

I believe that had there been released a top notch japanese turn based rpg that was true to the classic formula yet adapted to the modern times and technology (it *can* be done, can't it?), all signs say it would be well received. But we don't know that, cause it's not released. And that can't possibly be the reviewers fault.

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 10:23:25 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Gordo
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:21:57 AM
Reply

Shoving my head above the parapet and going where angels fear to tread, in my personal opinion jrpgs of the turn based variety are mostly relics of the past which functioned in a certain way due to the technological capabilities of the day.

Now in this generation the technological ceiling is not there to the same extent so rpgs can "have it all" with the rpg elements plus the graphics and action. So hybrids now abound such as Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3.

Traditional Jrpgs are now niche so they get variable reviews, less sales and little love from the publishers.

I don't see that changing anytime in the future. The WKC series is niche with a capital N. Most gamers tastes have changed and the number of people excited for Mass Effect 3, Skyrim, Dead Island and Dead Souls greatly outnumber those waiting for their traditional turn based jrpg fare.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:41:51 AM

You shifted from calling JRPGs outdated because of their turn based mechanic to praising RPGs and specifically mentioning two western RPGs. Not the same genre, not even remotely.

As for your sentiments regarding WKC, you are generalizing about a group of gamers that have had precious little on offer from game publishers, and insulting all of them.

Yes, I do feel insulted.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:27:35 AM

I disagree. I think saying the turn based mechanic is a relic due to technological advances is a huge and giant cop out.

Think about the PS2/XBOX/Gamecube era. (Even the PS1/N64 era!) There was no need for turn based. We got God of War 1 and 2, plenty of shooters including Halo, Killzone, and other games like Socom, splinter cell, etc. We also got great games like Prince of Persia.

We've had good technology for real time games for a VERY long time. Yet, the PS2 game us extremely excellent turn based games like FFX, FFXII, Dragon Quest 8, numerous Suikodens, and more. Not one of those RPG's I listed were outdated at the time. In fact, there is nothing about them that antiquates them. They are SO much better than the NES/SNES days. Even far greater than the PS1 days. ESPECIALLY in terms of technology. Some of those titles actually DEFINED what those systems were capable of!!! Nothing matched FFX for years, in fact.

See, the gameplay element is a good one that works. And devs have the technology to improve them. But they don't. Not because they can't... but because they're afraid it won't be profitable. And -THAT- is the topic of discussion at hand. There hasn't been an opportunity to prove they aren't profitable. All we know is that XBOX360 jRPG's aren't profitable. But... that's ok... because they weren't on the original XBOX either.

I still stand by my prediction from 2 years ago. I believe that in the end days of this generation, when it's cheap to make games, we will see more risks taken to make jRPG style games. And I bet they will succeed. At least... I hope they are made.

But yeah... technological issues prevent them from being relevant? No. There is -NO- proof of that. And past trends with the PS2 disprove that theory altogether.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 6:13:16 AM

@luisliu

well said. i always knew this site had the smartest community. i especially liked your reference to tri aces dated graphics engine. the main reason jrpg's have had had such a drop off in popularity is becuase jrpg's just have not been that good this gen.

your last sentence says it the best. if we are holding up wkc as the pinacle of jrpg gaming this gen then we have a problem, not the critics.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 9/6/2011 6:17:07 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:23:19 AM

Nice to see everyone thinks graphics are somehow the be all, end all of gaming. 'rolling eyes'

And maybe JRPGs would be BETTER if they didn't keep trying to MIMIC WESTERN TASTES.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:33:33 AM

I'll take a graphical step down any day for a classic jrpg experience.

And getting off genre, look at Deus Ex, plenty of 9s and its graphics are dated too. There's a lot more to it.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:44:13 AM

The presence of SE in the market is not the be all and end all. JRPGs existed without the FF series, but the presence of people like Namco in the market has been absent - thanks to the efforts of Microsoft. JRPGs are not about the flashiest graphics, no matter what SE's efforts with the FF series would have you believe. JRPGs have always been about the game play, character and story.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:33:48 AM

RDR, GTAIV, and all CoD games (To name a select few) are ALL graphically inferior games this generation. I'm sorry, but from a graphical stand point, they are NOT bar setters.-ESPECIALLY- Call of Duty games.

Yet 9+'s all around.

Why??? Because graphics are not all that matters. Because gameplay is the most important feature to games.

If graphics were the be-all-end-all... then none of those games would have done as well as they did.

What a cop-out excuse.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:59:54 AM

I agree with Highlander. Give me a game like FF7 graphics with a stellar story and good characters to boot, and I would GLADLY take that over any modern day high-end graphics game.

It's not all about the graphics, GAMEPLAY is what people should be looking at. Graphics is a bonus but I would rather have crappy graphics with an amazing story than amazing Graphics with a pile of poo of a story.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:07:14 AM

The funny thing about FFVII (and Underdog will tease me about it) is that the game is a great example of what we're talking about. I love the gameplay, and the combat system. I buy into the story and characters, and really feel involved in their story. so much so that I cannot actually get past the point at which Aeris leaves the story. If the game was somehow defined by it's graphics, how could it affect me deeply enough to make me ignore the remainder of the game? It's the characters and story that matter in FFVII, not the graphics. They (the characters) matter so much to me that despite really liking the battle system and game in general, I simply can't get past Aeris.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:51:20 AM

Highlander, that's exactly like me. When Aeris died, I was very sad and mad that Sephiroth killed her. I literally yelled at my TV to sephiroth saying; "I will get my revenge!!" I believe I shed a tear when she passed away. :'( I also love the gameplay and the characters. :D

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 4:37:57 PM

I literally can't get past it. I've played the game several times, but on each play through, I get to that point and it's like a mental block. I just feel kind of desolated by the events, and I can't continue, or rather I simply don't want to. So, I don't. I mean, I like the game, I've bought it twice, once years and years ago on disc for my original PlayStation, and once again for the PSP/PS3. Even so, I still can't play past that point.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 4:48:58 PM

High, just force yourself to get a tiny bit further to the Northern Crater. Once you finish that section, see how you feel. It's not far beyond where you are! You can do it!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:42:10 AM
Reply

Final Fantasy XIII generally got good reviews, but fans of the series still treat it like s***. So it's not always just the critics. But of course FPS have risen for a reason of popularity, CoD like it or not has become a gaming phenonemon this gen.

Many games have taken many RPG aspects to add depth to their games, like Bioshock, Fallout, Mass Effect, Dead Island - the list goes on. But not feel like a real RPG like a Final Fantasy, Star Ocean or so on. There is no sense of an adventure.

As for WKC2, well I was interested and was planinning to get it was it contains an updated version of the 1st game. But now knowing you just control an avatar instead of an actual character who is not involved in the story.... well I don't want another Vaan again for 80+ hours.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:35:23 AM

You are wrong, you control the main protagonist. The avatar tags along and you don't even have to use him/her once u have other party members. He/she is the hero of your Multiplayer component.

Though I hear the avatar has a bigger part in WKC2.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:47:53 AM

FFXIII got critisicm from fans of the franchise quite specifically because it failed to deliver a JRPG. Whether it is a good game or not, it's a terrible JRPG.

You're 100% wrong about WKC, you can control Leonard or any other member of the party, there are certain boss battles in story mode that you must include Leonard in the party for, but that's it. Plus you can switch characters in battle at any time. You only have to play your avatar in online questing outside of story mode, or if you want to. So, please stop spreading incorrect information.

Regarding this; "Many games have taken many RPG aspects to add depth to their games, like Bioshock, Fallout, Mass Effect, Dead Island - the list goes on. "

The list of action games pretending to be RPGs goes on and on, perhaps. but that's redefining the genre to suit your argument. None of those are JRPGs and none of those fall into the mold of the traditional RPG.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:51:43 PM

Well I have not played WKC but I was just going on what people have told me on this site.

As for them games I mentioned, Yes I am very well aware they do not qualify as RPG's it just seems that everyone else thinks they do.

FFXIII did deliver, many people have just looked upon it the wrong way. It's battle system was tactical, it was just more focused on changing the right paradigms at the right time, ratehr than entering the commands. It also delivered a far better paced story than XII and characters which had unique personality and motives.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 4:12:28 AM
Reply

its contributing but only a very small part of the problem.
jrpgs are probably the most niche genre, you either like them or you dont.
there definitely the smallest genre out there so its really hard to find reviewers that will give them the time, attention they deserve and go in without any bias.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 5:32:02 AM
Reply

before people cry about reviewers killing the jrpg genre just take a look in your ps3 jrpg collection and compare that to the quality we saw in jrpg's from previous gen's. there has been in a huge drop off in both quanity and quality. heck the best jrpg of this gen did not even appear on the ps3.

i think wkc was a very average game and was scored right by most reviewers. the production values were too low. even famitsu rated wkc low. if it was released during the ps2's days i don't think it would have got much attention.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 6:02:51 AM

This is exactly it. When Ben says "This is a guarantee. It's going to happen" it is so because it is the *truth*.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:24:55 AM

Read my comments above. You're not getting it.

The reason they're lower in quality is - as many fans will say - because they abandoned what worked. What people liked. Furthermore, when you DO find something more traditional like WKC, critics treat it like sh**. That can't be denied.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:49:47 AM

You can think that all you want, and base your arguments on the metascore of Euro-gamer review or whatever, but you're wrong. The best JRPGs of this generation have not appeared at all because the best RPGs of the current time appeared on the hand held platforms, we've yet to see terribly many JRPGs on the current home console platforms.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:58:54 PM

@ben

like you just said...if it's the case that jrpg's are failing becuase they turned their back on traditional elements that made them great and abonded what worked then why not title the article that instead of going after the critics? i would agree with the fact that jrpg's have abonded what worked and i would consider that a way bigger factor in their demise than any contribution the critics have made but you made no mention of this in your main article. i would love to see an article that addressed this abondement of what worked rather than blaiming the critics. the demise of jrpg's is way more complex than simply hitting on the critics as a factor and i think you know that. the critics would be way at the bottom on my list of the problems jrpg's have had this gen.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Douchebaguette
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 6:54:29 AM
Reply

IT'S A CONSIPRACCEEEEHHHH. To overthrow the previous powaaa with a new breeed.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 7:05:19 AM

GO GO - all men to the battlestations! Phasers on STUN! Blindfolds ON! ;)


Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 7:05:46 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

daus26
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:19:11 AM
Reply

It's hard to say. It may as you might have mentioned before, that technology has gotten better. Perhaps the whole turn-based thing was because developers was limited to the technology. Now that technology is much more advanced, they can execute real-time commands and strategy. Same with how random encounters are upgraded to enemiies on the field.

Or maybe we're the minority, and everybody else wants jrpgs to advance in terms of gameplay. Either that, or the critics are going with the fad/trend, instead of honestly enjoying the game for what it is. In this day and age, if there are no advancements, it'll be considered outdated, no matter how successful it was to many. It seems CoD is the only exception to that, and it is rather sad.

Now that I think about it, I wonder how some games out there with classic gameplay like how Nintendo re-makes their 2D side-scroll games (Mario, Kirby, DK etc.), but still manages to rake in really good scores. Why can't it be the same for jrpgs? Aren't there also classic, top-down view games that rake in good scores? If those games can be successful for their classic, traditional gameplays, why not jrpgs?

I can just imagine an awesome, turn-based jrpg with spectacular effects and moves for this gen. As a fan of the gameplay I can see it being successful, but it seems I'm the minority. That's why I feel at home here.



Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:37:58 AM

Just because you can implement real time combat now does not mean you should.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:51:02 AM

Turn based combat is not somehow inferior to real time. Whether the original reason for it's development was a technological limit or not, the fact of the matter is that it's a very viable system for a game and much, much more strategic in play than any real-time system is.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

daus26
Thursday, September 08, 2011 @ 6:53:39 AM

Guys, I never said that they had to, or that one is better than the other. I'm simply listing all the possibilities to the decline of jrpgs.

Yes, we can say that they don't have to, and we can say it doesn't necessarily make it better, but that's what we think. For all we know, we may be the minority, and for them it might be "better." We're talking about a new generation of gamers. Not gamers like us who experienced the greatness of turn-based and all of that.

Remember when FFXIII got revealed for the first time? Everyone got all hyped up and skeptical to the real-time gameplay that was shown. It showed a new innovation and technology to rpg games. Whether it was for the better or not is based on our own judgement, but what is clear is that it was something fresh and new.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

DemonNeno
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:33:16 AM
Reply

It seems like most critics are pathetic gamers. As far back as I can remember, I've always enjoyed games that utilized the type of strategy that required you to masterfully dominate your opponents. Today, I feel like you just point and spray at most enemies... With some need to duck and cover. Lame!

I wholeheartedly agree, Ben. I know there are many gamers out there who have given up on console gaming because of this lack of content. It's such a LARGE void that's left me gawking at the lack of attention we get! Even my room mates, who generally play Sports and FPS, agree that such genres are missed. True, they're in their late twenties, but I don't always believe age creates an exception.

Having some goof ball ridicule a game for "old" mechanics is ever-so stupid. That's the epitome of JRPG. I'll just never understand, I guess. Never, never, never... :(

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vitron
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:51:33 AM
Reply

Last time I was watching WKCs gameplay(Yeah, bash me I haven't played it yet), It was fine, I mean a generic cure for your RPG loneliness.

I just can't believe IGN gave a 5. I'd atleast give it a 7.5-8.

P.S. Can't wait for Sept. 13

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 8:59:06 AM
Reply

i just don't buy the argument that reviewers have contributed to killing off jrpgs. they never really liked the gameplay in ff and only gave it a free pass becuase it was ff? wow. there were tons of highly regarded and reviewed jrpg's outside of ff in previous generations. this gen not so much.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 4 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:25:30 AM

You said it once already. Actually, you said it four times. Why do you keep posting the same thing?

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 9/6/2011 9:25:44 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:51:42 AM

FF was not a highly regarded JRPG in this generation. It was not a JRPG in this generation.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:41:09 AM

Even among critics, it scored on average, 10 points lower than past FF's... despite it's incredible production values.

So no... it's not only the fans that noticed. It was noticeably worse than past FF's.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:35:20 PM

@ben

actually that was my first comment that addressed your claim that reviewers never really liked the gameplay that was in ff and only gave it a free pass becuase it was ff. how do you account for all the highly reviewed jrpgs outside of ff? i guess they got a free pass too.

i guess that it's kind like the gt games were all highly scored right up until gt5. reviewers never really liked it either...i mean it had nothing to do with the uneven presentation or poor design choices that led to a drop in quality. hmm, i see how that works. there was no drop in qualty...it's the critics that are the problem.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:47:40 PM

Design choices and uneven presentation?? In GT5?

um... you're aware the production values for that game are through the roof, right? And you're aware that game is the ultimate simulator, right?

Excelsior, I think your issue is that you're proving to be incapable of measuring things according to what they are meant to be. You can't expect every game to be an uncharted or have killer online components or have perfect graphics. It's just not realistic.

You really need to examine things for what they are. And I don't see that ability in you. WKC is a game that focuses on it's jRPG gameplay elements and co-op online play. It excels at both. It has an average, run-of-the-mill storyline, but it's still a good story. If you actually play through it, you would see that.

All I get from you is generalizations and echos of whatever reviewer you happened to read. I have not seen any pin-pointed issues with WKC's gameplay, and your attempt at GT5 critiques don't help your cause. You say the critics aren't the problem... yet time and time again, their complaints stem from a disappointment about it not being an arcade style racer. Well... yeah... as an arcade racer, I suppose they have a point. But guess what?!? It's not an arcade racer. It's not trying to be one.

Surely you understand the importance of measuring the quality by what it seeks to be. As a jRPG, WKC is good. True, I don't think it's a 9+ game either. But it's -DEFINITELY- not below that 7-range. That kind of scoring raises all sorts of red flags for me about the industry. I've played WKC... put well over 100 hours into it. I've beaten the story twice. And I've got to say... it's fantastic fun for jRPG fans.

True... it shouldn't be marketed to shooter fans or anything like that... but reviewers weren't even able to recommend it to jRPG fans... which is -SO- incredibly odd. Because every jRPG fan I know -loves- WKC. That fact is also enough to raise red flags.

Bad games don't get healthy online multiplayers.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:03:41 PM

FYI - it wasn't Ben that reviewed WKC for this site...

That adds a little insight, I think.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:03:23 PM

I'm not even sure why you keep talking, Excelsior. Your ignorance on this issue has quickly been exposed by those who actually know something about the genre in question.

You also manage to insinuate we at PSXE have no idea what we're talking about because we gave GT5 a high score. You didn't even bother to read our explanations on that issue; you keep poking fun at us there, too.

How about just trying to understand someone else's viewpoint for once, rather than continually trying to force your own opinion on others as if it were fact?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:15:04 PM

@underdog

the premium/non premium split gt5 was an awful design choice. having tons of cars you could not fully upgrade in the same way was very frustrating and let's face it the majority of cars in gt5 were just slighly up-rezed versions of their gt4 counterparts. they alone make the presentation uneven.

i also think 1080 p was a bad design choice. it should have been 720p native resolution and used the extra resources to clean up those 8 bit shadows and other graphical problems the racing still good, but the it's certainly the least impressive gt game i've played.;

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 4:45:15 PM

I don't agree that it was an awful choice. They could have delivered the game with the 200+ HD cars and people would have loved it. The problem wasn't so much the design choice as it was the perceptions of reviewers in particular. The additional 'standard' cars were really a huge lump of bonus content from the previous games. PD decided to include it as part of the game to increase value, but in the end reviewers with an axe to grind and a chip on their shoulder used those extra cars as a stick with which to beat the game. Imagine that, someone throws in a huge amount of extra content for free, and get's criticized for it. Almost sounds like Level 5 including the original WKC with WKC2.

As for the point you're trying to make about 1080p. For all the flaws people mention, the game looks fabulous in 1080p, it's a remarkable technical achievement, and I can't see how anyone can ding them over hitting 1080p.

With respect to WKC2, I have a very simple point about review scores. Any review of WKC2 from a publication that gives WKC2 a lower score than WKC1 is simply out to make a point. WKC2 includes at minimum everything that was in WKC1, so it deserves no less of a score than the original game. If it improves the graphics engine and game play even a little bit, it deserves a higher score that it's predecessor. I could see a review giving essentially the same score for the game, but a significantly lower score reeks of bias and agenda.

But criticizing it for being more of the same or not being innovative or different enough is simply ridiculous, the game is a direct sequel to WKC1. If it doesn't play like WKC1 and include all the same features, how can it possibly be considered a direct sequel?

But hey, you go ahead and justify your view based on the reviews you read. I'll base mine on playing actual games.

Last edited by Highlander on 9/6/2011 4:47:56 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 5:17:14 PM

@ben

oh i assure i read your explanations and just disagree. that's still allowed right? i've never even came came close to saying psxe does not know what they are talking about. you guys scored that game way too high imo and just gave it a free pass despite its flaws. i've ben respectful when saying this for the most part. no one has quickly exposed anything concerning my ignorance about gt5. the gt series was well received by critics and gamers alike right up until gt5. then all the sudden the critics and gamers aren't qualified to judge it? come on. i mean they loved all the past gt games so what happened with gt5? believe me when i say that there are some of us out there that thought gt5 was not up to snuff when compared to prevous gt games. still a good game that i would give 9. again, i never said it's terrible or you guys don't know what you are talking about. you can know what you are talking about and still be wrong sometimes in some people's eyes.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 6:00:04 PM

Whatever. Like I said, you're not getting it.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:00:18 AM
Reply

If there's one think I know about this genre is its leaving its fans in the dust. I remember playing ffx secrets of mana etc. Those classic style rpgs are what fans want and the rpg devs have basically chosen to steer clear of their roots for more breakneak action just to appeal to the masses. I still stand by my opinion that rpg works better as a function, but if what real fans want is traditional, why can't there be a popular jrpg while also keeping tradition? It's not impossible but current trends in the genre sure make it look like a pipedream ideal.

I think gamers in general have become a very simple minded bunch. All we care for is shooters. Rpgs take a back seat because they require so much more strategy. Look at demon souls, that's about as rpg as rpgs can get nowadays and that game is one of the most taxing out there.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:53:03 AM

The fans have had no choice in the matter, you can't steer clear of what isn't there, and the reviews don't help. The industry in general is not serving a rather large market of gamers. That's just pathetic. Excusing it is just as pathetic.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BIGRED15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:38:59 AM

@ highlander
Look at what Ben keeps saying. The first mistake rpg devs made was like I said, taking a different direction. People still want traditional rpgs, but we have been forcefed the modern rpg and while those games are generally liked, they are replacing old tradition with new tradition. Any thing like old tradition is now considered a step backwards

you are right in saying reviews today don't help the jrpg, other then those arguments at the beginning of your reply, I don't follow what your saying in the latter half. Please clarify

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vitron
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:01:51 AM
Reply

I've always thought 13 was a badass number.

SE just proved to me it was bad luck.:(

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:09:26 AM

Lol Indeed. That game was a let down for me, I won't dismiss the quality of it though but I miss the old school JRPG games..

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:12:29 AM
Reply

I believe that Dragon Age is the future for JRPG if this game type wants to stay relevant in this shoot first game generation.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:40:49 AM

wrpg is the future of jrpg?

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:53:24 AM

Worlds nailed that one.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:35:48 PM

World. You are 100% accurate.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:35:55 PM

World. You are 100% accurate.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 4:52:19 PM

Yeah, he is.

Does this mean you retract your initial statement, Max? It would be silly not to, now that you have agreed with him.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Wednesday, September 07, 2011 @ 10:37:24 AM

I think max is and was initially saying games like Dragon Age will replace the traditional and fading JRPG. If I'm wrong max, I apologize but that's what I got from what you said. And that is exactly what world said in fewer words.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:18:53 AM
Reply

It's prolly because devs/publishers/critics are getting younger.

jrpg are old-hat.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:31:27 AM

It's because they are bigoted, ignorant children who wouldn't know a good game if it sat up and bit them on the bum.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:42:32 AM

We have members in this community in their mid-teens that have said they love jRPG turn-based mechanics.

Not surprisingly, they also write pretty well for their age.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Excelsior1
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:07:03 PM

@highlander

you just lectured me on using the phrase butthurt and called it namecalling. what is the phrase bigoted, ignorant children? i actually borrowed the phrase butthurt from ben. he used it in one of his replies and i liked it :).

i tell you what if you think the graphics in wkc are "great" and jrpgs are failing becuase of all the bigoted, ignorant children out there i just have to say i flat out disagree and your opinion is in the minoirity about wkc. wkc just isn't not an elite jrpg title imo. i'm glad you liked it, though.

if a publisher actually released a great jrpg game that had traditional jrpg elements and great production values this gen and it was poorly received by critics then i might buy into this argument. wkc gets picked on becuase frankly it's not very good. no where near the quality we saw in previous gen with titles such as ff10 or dq8. i'd rate rogue galaxy over wkc.i think the best traditional based jrpg of this gen is the lost odyssey. it blows wkc out of the water.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:31:39 PM

Uh-hu. I called the "devs/publishers/critics" bigoted, ignorant children. From where I sit, that's exactly what they are. I didn't thrown insults, I used specific labels that I believe are accurate. Your opinionated assessment of WKC not withstanding, as a game, it's a good one. Perhaps it doesn't fit your criteria of being a good game, but it does fit that criteria for many other gamers.

As for Lost Odyssey, I'll never know because after the way that Microsoft has destroyed the JRPG market this generation, I point blank refuse to put even one cent towards their products.

Last edited by Highlander on 9/6/2011 12:35:29 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

D1g1tal5torm
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:13:56 PM

They're not the critics Ben is on about tho.

No matter how good the writing is, it's not going to cover up a bad game. Too many will oppose the view.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 1:29:19 PM

WKC isn't a bad game. It really isn't. I still, to this day, have not heard a legitimate complaint about it.

All complaints are that "It's outdated" or "It's more of the same". Complaints about that game and parts of the game that are SUPPOSED to be there. In other words, the critiques are from people who clearly don't understand the genre or what Level-5 is trying to do. They also likely aren't typically into the genre -UNLESS- it's a final fantasy.

The game deserves high 7's and low 8's at the very least, but doesn't even get that.

PLEASE... if it is truly just not a good game, EXPLAIN why... because I don't see evidence of a poor production.

I'm willing to bet, Digitalstorm, that the ones opposing the view never gave the game a chance. It doesn't help when reviews like Eurogamer's review, make comments that prove the writer didn't really play much of it and obviously based much opinion on footage and not experience.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 1:30:55 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Teddie9
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:34:57 PM

@ underdog

Thankyou!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:30:49 AM
Reply

Yep, been saying this for years now to anyone that will listen. White Knight Chronicles 2 wil get worse reviews than White Knight Chronicles 1 despite being a) a better game, b) WKC1 rolled into even more content, and c) an excellent game that you can sink literally hundreds of hours into, especially if you are an old school RPG fan.

Frankly, I think any reviewer who gives this White Knight a lower score than they game the original game needs to be fired for incompetence. And yes, I make no exceptions to this.

Saying that a game is 'more of the same' is *NOT* a valid criticism when it's a direct sequel of another game, nor when it describes the game mechanics of a game in an established genre which has established norms of game play.

Reviews and game reviewers in the western game media generally speaking suck ass, when it comes to JRPGs, it's doubly so. There are exceptions, and you know who you are, but the rest of them, suck. It may not be a conspiracy, but it's most certainly snobbery, chauvinism, ignorance and a total lack of respect for a gaming genre and it's fans.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:45:25 AM

I know... more of the same... lol. What is every other shooter out there?

It's more of the same. CoD after CoD we see 9+ scores. And what is it? Yup. More of the same. I know I know... "But the perks are different and there are more weaponzes!!!!" But the gameplay is -exactly- the same.

That's not a criticism. I'm actually glad gameplay stays consistent in shooters... they are supposed to be shooters. They should be shooters. Does the same rule not apply to WKC, all of a sudden?

My biggest complaint about reviewers is their inconsistencies. Blatent ones like complaining about the "more of the same but with improvements"... as if that's a negative... lol... more of the same.... but better.... Yeah... I can see why that's terrible... /sarc

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 9:42:53 AM
Reply

Go play a battle in FFVIII and tell me that isn't still exciting and tactical.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:25:55 AM

Worlds, I agree, but many here would simply whine about the graphics and outdated mechanics.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:46:08 AM

Oh, I'm gonna Renzokuken your ass and follow it up with Lionheart...

Yup... that is still badass.

Also badass, going through Zell's limit... getting as many whoppoppages as possible.

Or what about the garden vs. garden battle? That game was epic. Still is. If you took that game and gave it current gen graphics, I guarantee that despite it's battle system, it would be perfectly relevant and high ranking today. Gameplay is ANYTHING but outdated.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 10:53:13 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:09:25 AM

The garden vs garden battle was epic, and in HD would be even more so.

But really, let's be honest, can anyone honestly say they wouldn't enjoy seeing Rinoa dancing in HD? ;)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:22:17 AM

Graphics doesn't mean much to me, and I'm GLAD I am like that. People forget this generation that graphics will only do so much, the graphics might pull you in a bit, but truthfully, it's the story and gameplay that will further enhance the experience.

But all you will have is pretty graphics, and crappy gameplay. There needs to be a balance in my opinion. But if that balance can't be achieved I'm leaning towards that gameplay sphere more than graphics that's for sure.

Highlander, I would love to see that in HD. :D especially some of the fights. better yet all of it if they will do it.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:37:21 AM

The Omega Weapon in FFVIII, was by far, in my opinion, the toughest fight of any FF. I managed to work out an excellent strategy for it, but it still wasn't easy.

Wiegraff in FFT 1v1 with Ramza was also difficult the first time through (when you don't know what to expect). That ranks up there for toughness, too. But Omega FFVIII takes the cake. Mostly because when you know Wiegraff is coming up, you know exactly how to equip and prepare Ramza... and then it's easy. But only if you know.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:54:09 PM

The Garden battle from VIII is probaly one of the most epic battles I have seen in gaming. It went on for so slong and was intense all the way through.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Nas Is Like
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 10:02:06 AM
Reply

In simple words, f*** the critics. I'd rather pay attention to the fans/gamers.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:11:04 AM
Reply

I'm sorry, I just have to say it:

If you're not familiar with the progression of RPGs (especially JRPGs) over the past 20 years or so - i.e., you're not a fan and you don't play them - then you have nothing to say here. You don't have any idea what I'm talking about. This argument is only related to one genre, which is extremely niche.

I wouldn't go around pretending I know all about the progression of flight sims or fighting games, because I really don't play them. I get the feeling that some people in this thread who are trying (and failing, IMO) to make a point really have never even played the genre referenced in the article.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:50:23 AM

Amen, brother.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:28:53 PM

Those same people failing to make a point, remind me of the reviewers and critics of these games. they can't grasp the concept, or what makes the genre great.

I think a huge problem for jrpg's is that as gaming progresses and moves forward a new breed of critics arrives. They understand a game like an FPS, but when something like a jrpg comes about they can't grasp the concept. The argument "nothing new" raises the most concern to me, as if CoD has done anything new in the past years in terms of gameplay. That's coming from a CoD fan as well. But if one genre is being singled out, then we should seriously take a look at the product being reviewed and the critics who are reviewing them.

I'm not a huge jrpg fan and I would never act like I know what I'm talking about on the subject, basically I could never hold a relatively deep argument or conversation with Highlander. I am however intrigued by the genre, and just by reading what the true fans of jrpg's are saying it seems the article holds a valid point.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 9/6/2011 3:37:49 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Looking Glass
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:30:05 PM
Reply

Critics do indeed seem to be getting more and more biased against JRPGs. And that probably is hurting the genre. But demise? I wouldn't say that.

True, the genre is nowhere near as popular as it once was. But I don't believe that the genre will ever die out. That's because the genre still has it's own loyal niche. And that's more than enough to keep it alive.

For example let me once again point out the financial success of Atelier Rorona. Heck, as I understand it that game actually sold even better in the states than it did in it's homeland of Japan. I expect that Atelier Totori is going to enjoy similar success.

And on a related note it's been confirmed that Gust Inc has never had any interest in following popular trends. So I really don't think that the situation is as hopeless as you may think Ben.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 12:32:24 PM

I certainly hope Totori does well, I would like to see Meruru as well.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Eld
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:04:39 PM
Reply

I must say I have a lot of respect for Gust, even though they slammed Ar Tonelico with real time. But I can forgive...here and there:)

I can't help but feel that RPGs are being absorbed. Devs keep borrowing RPG elements and implementing them into easier, cheaper to make games to increase they quality and advertise "innovative" elements which existed for decades.There is a bit of RPGer in every gamer these days. People just don't know it because they never played any RPG from start to finish.

Edit: this was meant as a reply to Looking Glass post. Sorry:)

Last edited by Eld on 9/6/2011 2:07:16 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Teddie9
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 2:51:43 PM
Reply

I have to agree wholeheartedly, critics lambast rpgs not only for dated gameplay and graphics but for cultural differences as well. These reviewers already have a bias against the genre due to superficial reasons before they even take time to assess the gameplay.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 3:25:48 PM

Agreed.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Tuesday, September 06, 2011 @ 11:57:28 PM

Great point and I agree.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

The PS4 exclusive(s) reveal in December will be...
MEGATON! Biggest thing evah!
Pretty great, but not mind-blowing.
Something decent but that's it.
A waste of hype.

Previous Poll Results