Okay, Now The Huge PS3 Install Sizes Are Bugging Me

Kiryu
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:00:07 PM
Reply

Rage Developer doesn't know how to use the PS3.
Uncharted Series has no Install.
So the difference.

24 up, 4 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:03:06 PM

Why are you comparing two different games? Rage is a much larger game than Uncharted.

17 up, 3 down

Kiryu
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:15:46 PM

rage is on 3 360 discs that's 8*3=24gb
Even if it is because of 3d,Uncharted 3 is on 50 GB disc and comes close to 50gb.Unchated 2 took the full 25gb disc space.

7 up, 9 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:21:20 PM

You're missing my point. They are 2 different types of games. Uncharted is linear and scripted while Rage is more open in nature and thus the install will help with loading times and other things you won't have to worry about. with Uncharted.

I'm not disputing that ND knows the PS3 better but this situation isn't evidence for one being better than the other.

23 up, 2 down

godsman
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:52:05 PM

Infamous has a huge open world, yet it maintains minimal install. Rage's problem is that it's made for PC, then they work around for PS3.

20 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:00:37 AM

Thank you for at least bringing up a somewhat similar game. Infamous is open world but not comparable to the size and detail Rage is supposedly set to offer.

Look just because a game doesn't require an install doesn't mean any game that does must be inferior or be an example of the developers being unable to properly code for the PS3.

16 up, 3 down

dual soul
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:34:58 AM

Eurogamer recently had an interview with Id software. They mentioned how Sony doesn't usually allow game installs to be this big, but made an exception for Rage. Much of the 8Gb install is for high quality textures. They opted for this in order to "install all the textures to the highest level."

10 up, 0 down

Qubex
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:35:50 AM

Kiryu, LV is right. In addition ID have employed new streaming and texturing technology called Mega-Texturing. This means that the whole map is a canvas the digital artists can draw on.

Due to these huge mega textures Rage is streaming in a large amount of data all the time; and I wouldn't be at all surprised why the HD install is mandatory. To keep things coming in constantly means it needs to spool these mega textures into the game engine at a steady rate, wherever you may be in the environment.

The only reason for this huge install is primarily because of the streaming tech employed and the huge mega textures that need to be brought in in real time during gameplay...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

9 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:49:05 AM

yes a linear as hell game is allot larger and needs more space then a open world game......
sigh, dude i suggest you stop before you embarrass yourself!

4 up, 21 down

Lawless SXE
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:10:31 AM

Anon,
Actually, ND have stated that they're shooting to use the full 50GB this time around. Obviously, I get the feeling that this will have much to do with highly scripted sequences and real setpiecey moments, like UC2 and GoW3. Nevertheless, UC3 will indeed take up more space on disc than Rage, despite said space being used in radically different ways.

5 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:45:57 AM

_____ suggesting someone stops before they embarrass themselves....wow

But LV is pretty spot on

13 up, 3 down

godsman
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 7:15:20 AM

When i said Rage being on PC then work around for PS3, I meant that they are used to installing 10gigs to hard drive. They do not plan on working around using clever techniques to load the textures like in PS3 leading games.

--Uncharted 2 used prerecorded cutscenes that were played between each chapters to avoid loading screens. Thats why loading the first chapter takes forever but not after you watch a cutscene.
--God of War series are used to creating long boring hallways, to buy time for textures to load in the large, detailed rooms.
--Ratchet and Clank:ACIT plays a funny cutscene while the game installs 1.5 gigs to the hard drive.

These are examples of intelligent techniques to increase performances. PC-based multi platform games does not use this, due to the complexity of creating a different method to load screens for each platform.

8 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:20:27 AM

The problem they have is that streaming that quantity of data off the BluRay creates an issue because of the size of the files. It potentially creates situations where the player can get ahead of the game as it attempts to stream the texture data from the BluRay. Certainly for the 360, they have to cache the texture data to the HDD because of the multiple discs. It may be (as has been the case before) that the multi-disc requirement of the 360 causes a design change in the game to load textures from the HDD. That change then makes it's way into the PS3 version, so even if it was possible to stream the textures from the BluRay, it will still be cached to the HDD because the game's architectural design (resulting from the 360 compromise) demands it.

That said, Burnout Paradise originally streamed everything from the BluRay, but with the high speeds of the cars, there wre issues when driving at very high speeds you could actually get ahead of the stream of world data and the game would hiccup while the texture data was loaded. this happened a lot with online racing, and eventually Criterion started to cache the data to the HDD during play so that once the data was cached it was read from the HDD. It was essentially a stealth install though, because once on the HDD, the texture/world data was read from there instead of the BluRay.

Still, if ID only cached the essential texture data to the HDD, they could probably reduce the install size on the PS3, but I suspect that the game engine and design is similar on PS3 and 360 and the 360 needs the HDD install to cope with the multiple disc delivery.

5 up, 2 down

Ignitus
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:53:36 PM

The reason is the Ps3's bluray drive slow data tranfer speed relative to a 12x DVD drive data transfer speed.

A 2x BluRay drive like the one found in the PS3 has a data transfer rate of 8MBps while a 12x DVD drive (like the one on the 360) has a data transfer rate of 16.5MBps. As you can see, eventough the Bluray has more space it transfers data at half the speed the 360 DVD does.

Third party developers rely on the faster HDD to stream the required data into the game because reading it from the BluRay is very slow.

This is the reason third party games like the Saint's Row 2, Resident Evil 5, Fallouts and Bioshocks have 5GB mandatory installs on PS3 while on the 360 there is no need to install because the developers are able to stream the data directly from the optical media fast enough.

2 up, 2 down

Kain81
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:03:46 PM

i heard the PS3 version has the Super texture pack from the PC-version, wich will be released as a DLC for PC, but the PS3 version has it already on the Blu-Ray disc, but you must install it...

This could be a false information, cause of now there is no evidence for this.

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 10:38:38 PM

Ignitus, by spec the data transfer rate of 1X BluRay is 36 MBits/second, and according to spec the nominal transfer rate of a 2X BD player is 72MBits/second, although they say that it's more like 54MBits/second in practice - which is good since it's required for 1080p playback with lossless audio.

So, I'm not sure where your anemic data transfer rate numbers come from, but they are *wrong*.

1 up, 0 down

Ignitus
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 11:54:44 PM

High, it's you who is wrong. I'm surprised someone as tech savy as you claim to be didn't see it.

In my post I was using MBps (MegaBytes) units of measure but if you want me to I will use Mbps (Megabits)so you can understand it better.

2x BluRay 72Mbps = 8MBps.
12x DVD 132Mbps = 16.5MBps.

As you can see, developers have half the data transfer rate so they will transfer the data to the HDD to get it fast enough into memory.

I thought it was clear from the begining because I used the correct casing to differentiate MBps to Mbps. Hope it's clear now.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, September 29, 2011 @ 3:37:46 AM

Ugh! That's why I always specify Bytes or Bits because those two terms have become so confused over time. My apologies.

0 up, 0 down

DjEezzy
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:01:16 PM
Reply

totally agree. it is getting a tad ridiculous. i dont mind installing some games either but for instance, rage is just too damn much.

4 up, 1 down

Stabs88
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:27:27 AM

WKCII had a pretty big install I believe. Once it said it had to install the game I just walked away for half-hour

1 up, 0 down

Cpt_Geez
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:03:02 PM
Reply

Yeah I agree that these mandatory installs are getting out of hand. Even the patches are getting old soon as I get a new game then it has an automatic update plus install ugh.

4 up, 1 down

maxpontiac
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:03:46 PM
Reply

I see them as nothing more then a slight inconvenience because I usually install my games during dinner or when I am doing something else.

7 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:06:02 PM
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I don't have a problem with this if it means faster load times ingame and smoother gameplay. I have plenty of room on my main PS3 and that is counting 52PSN titles, 61 PS1 titles, 1 PS3 title(Infamous), and a large amount of game data. I don't count the Minis since they are so small in size.

By now if you game a lot I would think you'd have invested in a 500+ gig harddrive since they're incredibly cheap and easy to install.

7 up, 1 down

Mr Bubbles IGR
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:25:04 PM

I've been looking to get a new harddrive in my 80GB motorstorm ps3. What harddrive would you recommend that would be easy for a somewhat non-tech guy to install, i.e. so i dont have to reformat from ntfs to fat32. Would like a harddrive at least 320GB

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:30:07 PM

This would give you enough space for the lifetime of your PS3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152291

This is cheaper and still offers plenty of room.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136197

0 up, 0 down

frylock25
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:03:25 AM

jonah dont worry about having to format the hdd. the ps3 will do it automatically. the only time you have to worry about it is if it is an external drive. since you cannot play games off of an external drive its only good for backing up and storing files you dont need right away. some video content, music and pics will work from it most likely.

1 up, 0 down

Cesar_ser_4
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:58:56 AM

also Jonah, you might want to use a ratchet instead of a screw driver when changing the screws, I did that with mine and they came off really easy.

0 up, 0 down

Mr Bubbles IGR
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 6:55:51 AM

Thank you so much for the help. I'm down to about 10 gigs and the 8gig that RAGE takes kinda got me thinking to upgrade. I've already deleted everything that i want to. So thanks ^_^

0 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 6:05:12 AM

Exactly. What I find annoying, are those games that play entirely off the blu-ray and I have to wait, and wait, and wait and wait for that damn disk drive to be done, thinking, "I got a hard drive, why don't you USE IT damnit!".

1 up, 0 down

Unigumo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:06:33 PM
Reply

Isn't the install there to decrease load times? If its on the system then the game can access the data quickly. I don't mind the installing and it beats having to swap discs while in the middle of playing.

4 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:49:13 AM

If you are refering to the 360 with disc swapping, dont forget that that is not the only bad thing about not installing. They will get longuer load times and lesser performances if they dont install.

Only reason it is not mandatory on their system is because they sell stupid 4gb arcades and if they want all systems to be able to play they cant force it XD

5 up, 0 down

Snorge
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:12:13 PM
Reply

Annoyed the hell out of me when I first put Resistance 3 in......

2 up, 2 down

TrophyHunter
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 8:55:53 AM

When I put resistance 3 it asks me to download a 600 MB update, and when it was installed I needed to install game data, It was a very long wait for a very good game.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:21:51 PM
Reply

BTW this says hi

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152291

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:19:31 AM

Thanks for the link. I had no idea these existed. My 500gb HDD only has about 200gb left. I will be upgrading again here soon. :)

1 up, 0 down

CONTRABAND
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:36:02 PM

I remember reading something when the PS3 first came out that it was a bad idea to have anything larger then 500gb due to the power and heat. but that was years ago. i would love to get a 1TB in my day one 60gb, have a 300gb right now.

0 up, 0 down

Killa Tequilla
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:27:10 PM
Reply

Gt5... 10gb including updates...

5 up, 0 down

bebestorm
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:27:40 PM
Reply

Im not bothered by the installs I just find something to do while I wait. It would be fun if they would have a mini game while it loads.

0 up, 0 down

alnemozac
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:33:52 PM
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Ben is your problem the length of time that you will have to wait to install Rage? Or is it the sheer demand on the hard drive space that games like Rage have?

Personally the length of time an install takes can be annoying, I think how Metal Gear Solid dealt with it was good (spacing it out over the game rather than waiting for an hour or so for the thing to install) but other games don't do it so well, and sitting there with a game installing for 20 - 30 min. But the benefit is quicker load times during the game which isn't such a bad thing.

On the other hand if it's the demand on your ps3's hard drive it does suck to have your HDD fill up quickly with game installs and downloads, but think of the poor sods who purchased a 40 or 20 GB ps3. Not good when Rage would take up 20% of your hard drive (close to 50% on the 20 Gig ones). But the forethought of Sony is very good on this front as it is relatively simple to upgrade the hard drive, which is what I have had to do twice as bigger hard drives become available (I now have a 40 GB ps3 with a 500 GB hard drive installed).

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:27:35 AM

Pretty sure I answer your question in the article.

5 up, 1 down

DazeOfWar
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 10:39:22 PM
Reply

I could care less about the install. It's a pretty common thing on the PS3 and usually when it's installing I'll read something. I read the article on IGN and a lot of comments were nothing but people throwing a big fit about it.

I have a 320gb drive right now but plan on upgrading to a TB soon. I'm actually down to 100gb on mine right because all the games I have on it.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:08:42 PM

Does a 1TB 2.5 Sata Drive even exist?

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:29:46 PM

750GB definitely does, I think that one of the makers does have a 1TB drive, but I'm not sure it's thin enough for the PS3 despite being 2.5 inches wide.

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:44:15 PM

Yes there is a 1tb 2.5 available and it fits in a PS3. It's on newegg. I'd share the link but my comment would need approval.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 9/25/2011 11:44:49 PM

3 up, 0 down

DazeOfWar
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:56:54 PM

Ya there's a bunch on Amazon for around $100. Only thing I've just read about now is that the 1tb drives are just a little to thick and you would have to remove the HDD tray it sits in. So I'll probably just get a 500gb now since I don't want to modify my system.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:01:44 AM

Daze, Newegg offers a 1tb 2.5 harddrive that fits in the PS3. I've already shared the link for it on this thread under a different user's post but it's still waiting for approval (I really wish we could submit helpful links without waiting hours for approval).

2 up, 0 down

DazeOfWar
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:42:58 AM

I saw your link LV. Just wondering if you have used the TB or now somebody that has because everywhere I see on the net people say the TB drive are just a tad thicker. I don't want to order the drive and then find out I have to mod my PS3 for it to fit.

0 up, 0 down

DazeOfWar
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:43:51 AM

I saw your link LV. Just wondering if you have used the TB or now somebody that has because everywhere I see on the net people say the TB drive are just a tad thicker. I don't want to order the drive and then find out I have to mod my PS3 for it to fit.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:48:02 AM

Daze,

I don't personally know anyone that uses it but I've talked to several fellow gamers that use it and it does indeed fit. You'll also see multiple reviews on Newegg for it that mention it fitting in a PS3. I believe the most recent review mentions this so have no fear.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:44:08 AM

Daze,

The 1Tb drive looks like it will fit, It was about a year ago that the 750s became available and thin enough, it's no surprise that the 1TB drives are thin enough now, I just hadn't seen the specific drive LV has linked to. The early 1TB 2.5 drives were a tad thicker than these which made them harder to install.

0 up, 0 down

DazeOfWar
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:46:29 AM

Thanks for the info LV.

0 up, 0 down

Bloodysilence19
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:03:11 PM
Reply

It doesn't bother me as much that there's mandatory install, it does help the game out a bit and actually improves the load times, framerate etc.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:05:33 PM
Reply

After the GT5 install, 8GB for Rage doesn't seem so bad.

4 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:11:12 PM

That's what I was thinking haha.

MAG, and DCUO both were huge to, but I think mainly because they are online only.

0 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:45:50 AM

Lets whine about DRMs instead!

1 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:13:32 PM
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Given that my PS3 is an early model with the 40 gig hard drive, the prospect of an 8+ gb install stops me from purchasing the game. It sucks, but there's only so much hard drive management I can do to keep enough space available for it, and I haven't the time, money, or inclination to install a new drive. (Plus the whole act of backing up the drive strikes me as frustrating.)

0 up, 3 down

Killa Tequilla
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:17:03 PM

40gb is just too low... Dude upgrade to a 320gb ps3... I recommend it.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:30:29 PM

Upgrade the HDD or the PS3, one or the other, you will never regret it.

3 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:44:59 AM

lol its only 40gb. You can even back it up on a 64 gig usb key lolll.

And heck why would you back it up? Use PS plus and put your saves on the online server. Toss that HDD and put in a new one. The old 40gb models can auto format the HDD with no need for you to put the OS on a usb key.

1 up, 0 down

TheAgingHipster
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:30:06 AM

Yeah, I know I need to do these things. Unfortunately, a graduate student's salary doesn't allow for a lot of gratuitous spending on new hard drives/systems/PS+ accounts. I'm getting by with drive management, it just means I can only have 3-5 game installs on the PS3 at a time. :/

0 up, 0 down

Oxvial
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:18:16 PM
Reply

I'm okay with this.

But I need a neew hd, my 80gb aren't enough.

Last edited by Oxvial on 9/25/2011 11:18:55 PM

0 up, 0 down

kintaro
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:26:34 PM
Reply

Couldn't agree more. It has angered me every time i've bought a game that winds up having a mandatory install, ever since the first game I bought that had it(DMC 4, which also took almost half an hour to install!). My drive space is limited, even if i buy and install a huge hard drive, what i fill it with is my business, and it annoys me that a developer/publisher thinks they can monopolize huge sections of it at their discretion. Optional installs, on the other hand, i think are just fine. I usually do optional installs on online games i play, as a convenience and a courtesy to other online players(reducing load/wait time). I'll also install just about any game on XBOX i'm playing a lot to reduce the load on the optical drive, but as soon as i've beaten the game(or stop playing it as much), i delete the install data to free up space. To be honest, that's what really makes me mad: the knowledge that if i delete a mandatory install from my hard drive, i can't play the game again unless i reinstall it, which not only once again eats up a big piece of my hard drive, but wastes time waiting for the install.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:47:38 PM

Since you can get a 500gig HD for under $50 I fail to see the reason for your level of anger. I mean seriously it's understandable that some games may require an install to reduce load times and make the game run smoother.

I swear people will complain about anything, I'm sorry but installs do take time to install how about spending the time it takes to install by reading the game manual or making some homemade salsa.

8 up, 3 down

kintaro
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:12:40 AM

I did buy a 500 gig hard drive. And i fill it with media files, music, pictures, and anything i choose. But that's my choice, and a good 50%(and growing) of that hard drive is filled with non-PS3 related content. Sony's own campaign boasts, "It only does everything," and i use my PS3 in just about every capacity i can. On top of that, i easily own 50-60 PS3 games, and if each required an install, that, along with the other content i have, would fill the hard drive to capacity, at which point i'd have to either upgrade(again) or start deleting files/install data. Personally, i have no problem with waiting an extra 20-30 seconds for a game to load, and 10 seconds between areas, but being forced to wait 20 minutes for a game to install before i can play it at all is just plain ridiculous, especially if it's a game i don't play often and will probably want to delete the install data to free up space. It's not unreasonable to expect to pop a game disc into your PS3 and be playing it a minute later, even if you're not benefitting from the (often marginal) optimizations that come from hard drive installs.

As for making salsa, do you happen to work PR for Capcom?

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/02/06

0 up, 2 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:43:03 AM

errr optimisations are not marginal. HUGE differnce in most cases. Loadings cut in half and you dont have textures going from N64 to PS2 to PS3 in your face on a 30seconds morph.

Did you know the only reason install isnt mandatory on the 360 is? Because not all models come with a big enough HDD. Installs on 360 are HIGLY recommended but end up taking even more space. The N64 to PS3 graph is something I experimented on the 360 alot if I didnt install my games on my hdd (especially the latest ones). PS3 has those mandatory but much smaller installs. It is much better.

You have to accept in your mind that games are no longuer a few MOs but anywehre between 6-50 gigabytes lol even on a kick ass machines like a 10K PC you have to install your game because it cant boot it from DVD or Bluray... It is not fast enough. Even if you go digital it is even worse... You have to DL it and wait for at least 2hrs if its a big one (SC2, WoW)

The only thing I am hating at the moment about current games is their new DRM fashion (always be online to play even SP) NOW THATS SOMETHING TO WHINE ABOUT. But it does not really affect Sony so far.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:03:00 AM

If you own a PC (something most people do nowadays) I suggest you stream it all via PS3 media server. You're using up a lot of your PS3's HD space on stuff you don't have to. I have well over 6TB of media (music, video, pictures) instantly accessible on my PS3 and none of it takes up space on my PS3.

I fail to see the logic in accepting 30second load times which vastly increase the overall wait time during gameplay yet complaining about a one time install that reduces these wait times and makes the game run smoother.

You mention that you don't want to install a game that you're not going to play often, do you have any examples?

2 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:33:31 AM

I stream all my media and I'm STILL running out of space due to the insane amount of quantity and size of game installs. I should be able to have more breathing room with a 320 than I have.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:04:00 AM

Smokey,

I'd love to know what your gaming collection is if you've managed to fill up 320 gigs with only game content.

If you have enough money to buy the thousands of dollars it would take to fill up 320 gigs worth of gaming I'm pretty sure you can afford a bigger harddrive.

1 up, 2 down

kintaro
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:24:58 AM

Vertigo, media streaming can be a fine thing, but it's not always the best option. I usually only have my computer on when i'm sitting at it(ie, actively using it), and if it's on while i'm away, it's most likely running a bandwidth heavy process, ie downloading. Even when it's not, bandwidth in my home is often being used up by Netflix/Hulu/etc., and in some cases, the media files have proven big enough (or my wireless network not fast enough) that they don't stream very well(happened to me on XBOX, at least, which was what prompted me to simply export them to my PS3 hard drive). I love downloading live concerts of my favorite bands, but a DVD rip of a show can run 4 gigs easy, and i've grabbed HD sourced shows that went much higher(the NIN fan community is pretty rabid for that sort of thing, and has produced some pretty insane concert vids). That also means my PS3 drive doubles as a storage drive so those videos don't take up all that space on my PC hard drive. Makes the most sense to me to store them on the system where i'll be accessing them.

Like i said, i have a whole lot of PS3 games(ditto for 360), and i tend to save them rather than sell/trade them. There are times when i might grab just about any one of them, even a game i haven't played in a year or more, and pop it in and play for an hour, if i get the urge. The Uncharted games would be a perfect example. DMC4 is the perfect example of a game i *would* pop in and play from time to time, if i didn't have to reinstall it in order to do so(before my bc 60GB died, i would occasionally pop in DMC3). If you play a game like that for an hour, an install might save you a couple minutes of load time, but it's hardly worth the 20 minutes it would take to install the data each time you want to play it. Honestly, i install most XBOX games when i start playing them now, but once i've more or less finished them, i delete the install data, and on the odd occasion i decide i want to play it again, just run it off of the disc. The option is great; i just don't think it should be compulsory.

1 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 4:51:50 AM

PSN games, game installs, not all bought obviously from plus, or dlc. In the end the majority is NOT made up of bought content Vertigo. In the end 500 gig wouldnt even go much further and it's a 7200rpm drive, which is not really available for 500gig.

Hardly constructive to say "oh you have too much".

0 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 4:55:45 AM

It's also ridiculous that due to us having to increasingly manage our space like this is shows how in need of more tools to monitor and manage our HDD space is needed. Like percentage of what is taking up space.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:22:36 AM

I use a hybrid approach of keeping the most used 10-15% of music/image files on the Ps3, and the rest stream from the PC. Funny thing is, the PS only has 160GB of HDD to play with, the PS3 has 500GB...

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:44:23 PM

Kintaro,

Free up your PS3 HD space if you're unable to stream (I'm able to stream Blu-ray without a hitch, you might need a new router) I'd suggest an external HD, you can get a 2TB for $70. I still fail to see the big issue you take with large game installs when there are multiple SIMPLE solutions to your problem.

Smokey,

I've been a Plus member since Day1 and I've downloaded every free thing offered since then. Along with all the free stuff and the amount of paid content I have which far exceeds the free stuff I've been able to fit it all on a 120gig Slim before giving it to my parents.

The point being that you have nearly 3 times the amount of space on your PS3 that I have on one of mine yet you say it's full of gaming content and I don't believe you.

0 up, 3 down

PSTan
Sunday, September 25, 2011 @ 11:57:53 PM
Reply

Seriously, I never found installs irritating. Some of the best games on the PS3 have HUGE installs. MGS4 installs every Act, but that never detracted from the experience. AC Brotherhod was a whopping 4 gigs (same with Mass Effect 2) and look how amazing they are. Bottom line, we shouldn't worry about having to wait, as long as the game's quality isn't compromised.

Besides, I'm glad for installs, because disc swapping is only cool when Otacon tells me to do it.

1 up, 0 down

CheddarClyde
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:10:27 AM
Reply

The thing is, I don't really see an alternative. I might be wrong on this, but from what I read the reason why the option to install game data existed on the PS3 was because of the supposed slow transfer rate of the BlueRay disc medium. Loading and/or streaming data from the hard drive is faster than doing it from the disc. The only real alternative would be for the creation of an optical drive with a faster transfer rate, something that we won't see until the PS4.

Like most of you though, I don't have a problem with the large installs. I back up all of my game data on my PS3 hard drive to an external 1TB hard drive where I back up all of the work files and software on my computers, making it easy to add and remove game data based on what I'm playing at the time. A small price to pay for hi-res textures and models, lossless audio and large game worlds that couldn't be done without BlueRay.

0 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:31:05 AM

indeed. Use those 20-30minutes of install do do something useful around the house lol dont need to stare at the screen.

0 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:29:28 AM
Reply

Actually not me. They are doing this for better performance and if I had to choose between install and get better performance or dont install and get a slower loading game... I would go make supper while it installs and then play with less troubles :D

And yes it is a bit long to install but your argument about getting the right settings doesnt stand tho. You have nothing to do but press the button and wait for install.

I agree on the need for bigger hdds. I put a 500gb in mine (was a 60 then died then put my hdd in a 120) and it was the best thing I did.

People on the 360 get it far worse. Your looking at a 24-27gig install OR LOL intall one disc then uninstall and install the other one XD XD thats LAME.

1 up, 0 down

JackDillinger89
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:32:30 AM
Reply

I dont see the big issues with the installs. Just erase game installs you dont play. Even on my 360 i always install the games even though it isnt nessasary. They load faster and put less a strain on the disc drive. And at least ps3 rage has one disc while 360 has 3. Thats a lotta swapping and installs which would annoy the hell outta me. Which is why im getting it for ps3. Same with BF3.

0 up, 0 down

AshT
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:33:23 AM
Reply

I think i need to install a 500GB HD on my fat 80GB PS3

0 up, 0 down

leatherface
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:32:47 PM

Go for the HDD that LV has mentioned above.
Samsung Spinpoint M8 HN-M101MBB
1TB 5400 RPM 8mb 2.5" sata 3.0gb/s
Internal Notebook HD-Bare Drive.
$99 bucks on Newegg!!!

Last edited by leatherface on 9/26/2011 1:33:41 PM

0 up, 0 down

AcHiLLiA
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:04:54 AM
Reply

We all need faster internet connections.

1 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:32:51 AM
Reply

This is getting to me too. With games like GOWIII and UC2 this should NOT be happening so much. It's wonderful that all our machines have inbuilt harddrives but my 320 gig HDD is almost filling up as it is and it's ALL from games. I'm not being able to have as much music as I would or a bigger home cache.

0 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:59:36 AM
Reply

I fully understand the reason for Rage's massive mandatory installation, what with the new rendering techniques and so on that id are utilising, but I must admit that 8GB is a bit excessive. At least the vast majority of GT5's was optional, and MGS4 deleted the data that wasn't being used.

The reason that it bugs me is that I'm still using my original 60 GB hard drive and it's just about chockers. I do delete any games that I don't feel that I'll go back to, but that still leaves me a rather large amount of data on that that I just don't want to delete, in case I get a niggling urge to go back to the game at some point.

I know all of the arguments about upgrading to a bigger hard drive, and I'm seriously contemplating doing just that. However, there's just something about the idea of doing that which makes me reluctant... I dunno, I'll get there.

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:06:06 AM

::kisses::

0 up, 1 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:46:18 AM

As usual, the PC devs are hardware whores. There's never enough for them...

2 up, 1 down

FxTales
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:56:13 AM

Pretty much the same thing for me too. Not only that the only extra money of mine that I make is going towards a PS Vita. So at the moment I just resort to deleting what I don't use.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:07:35 AM

Highlander,

I'm glad it's that way. I love being a PC gamer.

1 up, 1 down

Lawless SXE
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:26:46 AM

LV, I don't know where those lips have been, nor do I want to know. Either way, please keep them away from me in future ;P

Highlander, too bloody right. Still, if it's the wave of the future, I guess that there's really no point in complaining. I just wonder if megatextures will become an industry standard; I can certainly see them being used in any future Bethesda games, but outside them perhaps?

Also, perhaps you can help me out with a minor issue I've been having over the last couple of days.
Yes, I know I should take it to the forums or something, but I'm here now. Basically, I can't upload any images to any site. If I try, it either refuses to load, sends me to the IE cannot display this webpage page or crashes the browser. I've also tried using Chrome, to no avail along with deleting my browser history, temporary internet files etc. I've also checked through the firewall, and it has me stumped. Any ideas? In addition to this, it sometimes makes me open extra tabs or refresh the page before letting me post even written messages.

(Truly sorry about the OT, Ben, but I know no-one else as informed as this guy. Hope you can forgive me for the transgression.)

1 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:40:48 AM

Scratch that, and please eliminate all off-topic content from my post, Ben. All is solved now.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:25:45 AM

LV, I agree, but only for PC gaming. If a PC dev wants to continually push the boundaries of available hardware, that's fine, but they still *must* be realistic and accept that in the console world, the platforms are locked down and they have to work within the hardware budget. There is no point in Crytek or ID crying into their beer about the relative deficiencies of the console platforms compared to a state of the art gaming rig. Instead, they should be looking for ways to achieve the same results with as little hardware as possible.

Obviously they will want more hardware always, but with the product lifecycle in the console world (and the business model of selling hardware at a loss initially), they need to learn to deal with the reality of working on console games.

2 up, 0 down

THEVERDIN
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:09:45 AM
Reply

I thought I read somewhere that it was going to require 22GB.

0 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:20:55 AM

thats for 360 only

1 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:47:52 AM
Reply

WTF does ADD have to do with HDD installation problems?
some of us dont stay home all day playing games!
constant installs are a problem because some of us only get a hour or so to play a game and half of thats taken up by installing the bloody thing!
tis why ill be getting it on the 360.
id much rather switch disks which takes 25 seconds then sit through a 8GB HDD install which would probably take close to a hour!
what i cant understand though is if a game like GOW3 does not need a install then why does RAGE?
i mean yea its a massive game, it looks fantastic!
but is it that much bigger that it needs 8GBs more room then GOW3?

0 up, 6 down

aaronisbla
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:51:43 AM

wait, so its not possible for you to turn it on and install it while you are doing something during that time? If all you have is an hour of gaming to do, install it while you're doing something else. simple.

You should wait and see if the 360 version is on par with the ps3 version load time wise, if the load times are horrendous without an install on it, is it still worth it? Or if you're truly concerned with getting the best version, get it on the pc

He mentioned ADD simply because of how some people try to make it seem like a 30 minutes to install a game is gonna truly kill them when really, its not as bad as people try to make it. If you can deal with disk changing, you can deal with the time it takes to install.

Last edited by aaronisbla on 9/26/2011 5:59:19 AM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 9:45:22 AM

Oh how I long for the day that Ben throws down the ban hammer on this lunatic.

5 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 9:56:52 AM

Jawknee: It used to be amusing. But he just refuses to take any medication.

0 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:10:22 AM

nope, well i do but i normally get home around 8 and gotta be in bed by 10 at the latest because i gotta be up by 5 the next morning.
thats why i hate having to install my games, i only get 2 hours to myself and half of that has to be spent watching a sexy loading bar!
tis why i stopped buying games on the PC too.
because every single god dam game i buy on it i spend more time trying to get it working then i do playing it!
RFA for example, its been out for how many months?
and they STILL have not fixed the cut scene to gamplay lag issues!

2 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 1:34:41 PM

I'd like to get this guy in a MMA ring against some super star so I can bet on blankline for the high odds win and take home millions of bucks home to the wife.

I'm just saying... You can't teach that kind of crazy.

3 up, 1 down

Beamboom
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 3:08:43 AM

@Underdog: LOL!

0 up, 0 down

ctwoe
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 2:53:54 AM
Reply

When will people understand that installation is a good thing? Doesn't matter how big the install is (actually, the bigger the better), the load times get a LOT better since blu-rays are extremely slow.

1 up, 0 down

RX78Zero
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:00:13 AM
Reply

I replaced my PS3 slim's hard drive with a bigger 500gb drive when it came out. The upgrade has served me well but i'm down to about 80gb of free space. i'm going to look at this 1TB you guys mentioned, is that 1,000 gb? Well then, i might be upgrading again if things are right.

0 up, 0 down

frylock25
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 7:56:38 AM

hdd's are over rated for space. 1 terabyte works out to be like 919 gigs. a 640gb is like 599gb. a 500gb works out to be like 465gb. a 320gb is 299gb. pretty stupid how they can market it like this.

1 up, 0 down

Ultimadream
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:32:04 AM
Reply

8GB is quite absurd, I remember when I first got my PS3 60GB, every PS3 game I got demanded a 5GB install, I eventually just bought a 300GB HDD because it became too much.

0 up, 0 down

Danny007
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 7:33:22 AM
Reply

Oh NOOOO! I have Rage pre-ordered and I'm psyched to play it, but I barely have a GB left on my hard drive. So much for 120 GBs being enough for me.

0 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 7:35:18 AM
Reply

We all knew the day was coming that consoles like the PS3 and Xbox 360 were going to be forced into those horrible inconveniences that PC gamers have to deal with, installs and patches. I don't know how some FPS could even need 8 GB. Sure I can spare the space but why so much?

I might still buy RAGE. My new laptop can run the game's recommended specifications but the PS3 is a safer bet. I'll wait for reviews.

0 up, 0 down

CrusaderForever
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 8:15:08 AM
Reply

I don't mind the installs at all. They are there to make our gaming experience better. As far as space goes, Sony made it so easy to upgrade your HDD. Putting a 500GB HDD in your PS3 is a snap. Keep them coming as long as it increases my enjoyment.

3 up, 0 down

Shiva369
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 8:43:46 AM
Reply

I'm cool with the install, for what it's worth. It's obviously for the benefit of my gaming experience and I'm getting pretty psyched about this game now. Besides, I recently installed a new 640GB HDD in my beloved Slim, so all good;-)

2 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 8:54:20 AM
Reply

It's called progress.
A few years from now a 8gb install will be considered lightweight. But then the games too will offer X times more of pretty much everything compared to today’s games.

Sometime in the future you will be quoted from this article, Ben! Much like Bill Gates and his infamous "640K ought to be enough for anybody" quote. ;)

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/26/2011 8:56:44 AM

5 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 9:55:17 AM

Uh...I get it. I know it's progress. That doesn't exactly alter the complaint.

1 up, 6 down

Beamboom
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:05:36 AM

That's right. It's just another article, just another complaint on the world wide web.
You're the editor, I'm just a mere reader thinking it's like complaining about the resolution being higher now than it used to be and that's annoying since your TV can't handle that.

... But you *will* be quoted! The Internet never forgets! ;)

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/28/2011 8:02:40 AM

1 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:16:38 AM

Terrible analogy. Games requiring huge installs is nothing like having a game with higher resolution than your TV can handle. Now you're just trying to pick a fight with Ben...again.

0 up, 3 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:26:22 AM

Oh yes, I write a lot of "complaining" articles.

'rolls eyes'

Whatever. Don't have time for this.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 9/26/2011 10:26:35 AM

1 up, 6 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:32:41 AM

But, HD resolution is 6 times the video data. The original PS2 had 32MB of RAM with 4MB of embedded video DRAM. 6 times 32MB = 198MB of RAM with 24MB of dedicated video memory. Hmm.... even if there is no compression of the texture data, textures that are 6 times as detailed (the difference going from 480 to 1080 resolution), the systems of today have more than enough RAM, the BluRay is 6 times larger than the DVD, and the data read rates of a BluRay drive are more than sufficient to stream the data from the disk - after all they are sufficient to stream full 1080p video data for playback. So, I think it's incorrect to suppose that the HDD installation requirement is progress. I think that the install size ccould have been smaller with smarter allocation of the texture files on the BluRay - optimized for streaming during play. However, since the game ships on 3 discs for the 360, the 360 mandates a larger installation to keep the texture data on the HDD since disc swapping is a killer. The architecture of the game on the 360 is therefore built around streaming the data from the HDD. It would be less than sensible to create two completely different game engines, so the design decisions on the 360 version are reflected in the PS3 version. I think this is the reason we are saddled with a large mandatory installation on the PS3. Yes, it probably helps the game run more smoothly, but smarter caching of texture data to the HDD could achieve the same result without a mandatory 8GB install. Since the 360 mandates the install, I'm not surprised that it's needed for the PS3.

3 up, 4 down

Beamboom
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:44:45 PM

Trying to pick a fight? Geez, I was just trying some light hearted leg pulling here. Nothing serious.

Look at what we are discussing here. he's saying "man this annoys me", I'm replying "such is life", and that's it. Chit-chatter.
C'mon, lighten up guys!
Man I hate it how we sometimes have to reeeally carefully weight our words here, in danger of offending someone. It's not international politics or religion we discuss here, ffs.

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/26/2011 12:54:35 PM

8 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 @ 1:28:55 AM

@Ben & Jawk: It's probably too late now so I'm not sure if anyone will read this anyways but I all of a sudden realized how my first reply could be misread, and probably was from you both, so for whatever it's worth, here's a correction:

"It's just another article, just another complaint." -> I meant generally, on the internet. I did not mean to say just another complaint FROM YOU but one of many complaints we find on the net.

I changed the sentence to "It's just another article, just another complaint on the world wide web."

Sorry about that minor confusion. :)

Other than that I stand by my last reply. I really think it takes nothing to trigger confrontations around here. A lower guard would be appreciated.

Last edited by Beamboom on 9/28/2011 8:04:09 AM

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 9:16:15 AM
Reply

It's pants.

2 up, 1 down

frylock25
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:06:02 AM

what pants?

Last edited by frylock25 on 9/26/2011 10:14:24 AM

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:32:56 AM

It means it's pretty lame.

0 up, 0 down

duomaxwell007
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:31:54 AM
Reply

correct me if im wrong butisnt gran Turismo 4 install size 12 or 20gb?

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:33:30 AM

GT4? 0GB....

GT5? 10GB (or so)...

;)

2 up, 0 down

duomaxwell007
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:05:50 PM

exactly... 2 more GB than Rage.. but Rages install size gets headlines? >.>

0 up, 0 down

daus26
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:40:18 PM

GT5 did get the headlines, and it was optional, so if you wanted to play the game right away, you could. I'm not sure if in the end, it'll end up using all 9-10 gigs though, if you didn't choose to install in the first place.

0 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:33:18 AM
Reply

omg, these installs are too much we all need a bigger hdd.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 10:33:51 AM

That's why each new SKU revision includes a larger HDD.

2 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 9:10:52 PM

yeah i know, just been wanting to upgrade mine for awhile mine is 160gb.

0 up, 0 down

Helghast
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 11:17:28 AM
Reply

The is exactly why I switched from my 80gb to a 500gb, however I have had the exact opposite experience. I remember when I first got my PS3, it seemed EVERY game had a huge install, now I only run into an install once in a while.

1 up, 0 down

SaiyanSempai
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:26:41 PM
Reply

Don't know what the big deal is. 8 GB won't make much of a dent in many peoples 160+ GB hard drives.

Personally, I stream all my music and movies from my PC so I don't have any of that stuff locally on my PS3, and considering that I have almost 150 GB left to spare for game related things only, 8 GB isn't much. And you can delete it when your finished with the game, so no big deal.

1 up, 0 down

daus26
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 12:34:29 PM
Reply

Does this mean that Skyrim's open world is small compared to Rage? Does Skyrim require an install?

0 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 5:56:53 AM

Oblivion required 5 GB, so I'm guessing "yes".

Last edited by Fane1024 on 9/27/2011 5:58:12 AM

0 up, 0 down

Teddie9
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 3:18:07 PM
Reply

Sigh I still use my fat ps3 with it's 80gig hardrive, guess I should upgrade it... (not getting a new one though until it breaks, yay for backwards compatibility)

0 up, 0 down

FlyingKickPunch
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 4:27:40 PM
Reply

I think RAGE will be worth the requisite HDD space. I love id games. :)

1 up, 0 down

Robochic
Monday, September 26, 2011 @ 5:07:35 PM
Reply

I don't mind I just find something else to do but what gets me is 3 discs for 360 damn I would hate that as a 360 user.

1 up, 0 down

Minishmaru
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 4:44:42 PM
Reply

Yeah upgrading to a larger hard drive is a option...but sadly THAT takes long as well. Don't even bother doing the data transfer...took a whole friggen day! But yeah upgrading hard drives is easy physically,but omg...don't bother thinking about playing anything that day...and with all the games becoming bigger and then transferring all that data to another source? Lol

0 up, 0 down

Lairfan
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 @ 9:37:55 PM
Reply

I'm okay with this up to a point. If a game installs, yet clearly still have crappy loading times, then I feel like that's a complete waste of space. If its like Rage, however, where they're actually trying to get the most out of the install, then I'm okay with it.

0 up, 0 down

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