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Online Pass Confirmed For Uncharted 3, Will This Hurt?

Well, after Sony's online pass program debuted with Resistance 3, you had to figure future first-party games would also have the same restriction.

The initial confirmation came when Spanish site The Vault quoted Sony Spain software manager Juan Jimenez saying Naughty Dog's latest would use the network pass. It was later confirmed to GameSpot.

Like EA's and THQ's Online Passes, if you buy Uncharted 3 new, you won't have to pay anything extra to sample the game's online multiplayer. However, if you purchase it used, you'll have to pay $10 to gain access. Now the question is, could this damage the game's sales potential? Many say the online pass was partly to blame for lower than expected sales of Resistance 3, even if we believe it had more to do with the upcoming shooter lineup.

Furthermore, multiplayer for shooters is typically a much bigger draw; the multiplayer in Naughty Dog's game will be appealing, but the title will thrive on its single-player adventure. And of course, Uncharted 3 is different; it's widely regarded as one of the most anticipated titles of the year and an almost guaranteed Game of the Year contender. So does the online pass hurt at all? Does it even matter?

Related Game(s): Uncharted 3

Tags: uncharted 3, drakes deception, online pass

10/3/2011 8:33:09 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (177 posts)

BigStack007
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:09:07 PM
Reply

R3 wasn't worth $60 to begin with. Plus the multiplayer portion of R3 is just plain bunk. That's what hurt R3. U3 has a good chance of selling well reguardless of the online pass. There's alot of dedicated fans of the Uncharted series. I could care less about U3. Not really into 3rd person shooters anymore. GOW3 being the exception. Not so many gamers are fans of the online pass too. U3 should sell well.

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godsman
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:56:59 PM

You made so many comments that I agree and disagree. I don't know if I should thumbs up or down you.

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Gamer Girl Gemo
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:14:58 AM

I concur, godsman...

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TrophyHunter
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 8:37:16 AM

So basically, U3 will sell good :)

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PAKINIPS
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:21:37 PM
Reply

This annoys me somewhat

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:44:34 PM

Are you getting the game on day one? Or atleast new?

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PAKINIPS
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:50:07 PM

Indeed sir, but I like to share.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:37:22 AM

Lol well it doesn't affect you directly, so your kind heart shouldn't be concerned right now. ;)

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huh1678
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:27:26 PM
Reply

Doesn't really bother me, Was going to get U3 day one just like i did with U2.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:35:03 PM
Reply

It shouldn't. Those who claim to be fans of the series should be supporting ND and not Gamestop.

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PAKINIPS
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:38:16 PM

Can't naughty dog take the $10 from gamestop rather than it's loyal customers?

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:40:53 PM

How is ND taking $10 from it's customers? The game is still $60. The only Time you would ever pay for the pass is if you bought the game used.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:44:31 PM

And how would they do that? Gamestop isn't going to just hand over part of their profit. Even if they did people should be supporting the developers who make the games we enjoy and not the middle men who make 100% profit off of someone else's hardwork and commitment. You want to keep playing games? Then pay the people who make them not those who profit off the developers backs.

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Him
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:44:55 PM

Or if you have another profile for a family member..... which is complete BS

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PAKINIPS
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:48:14 PM

What I'm saying is, The problem is gamestop actively selling used copies over new copies so they should be the ones getting punished.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:51:03 PM

You're missing the point. If you buy the game new you won't be "punished". You want to be a cheap skate and save $5 and cut ND out of the profit they deserve then you will have to pony up $10 if you wish to use their server space to play the game online. Seems perfectly fair to me.

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godsman
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:00:08 PM

This brings up the question. Can't the publishers/developers sue them for a piece of the profit from used game sales?

I mean, the collector's edition games and those games bundled with PS3 clearly states "Not For Resale" on the back of the game case.

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FM23
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:58:06 AM

Right on Jawknee!

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:07:01 AM

@godsman

you think gamestop would actually honor that "not for resale" tag on the back of the case? either they'll sell it anyway or just take out that piece of paper and sell it like all their other used games.

i think developers already tried to get a cut from gamestop before but it failed. gamestop probably even told them that they wont give away part of their profits. business wise, why would you share your profits to someone if you dont have to.

@Him

if you have a profile from another family member then tell him to use your psn profile if he wanted to play it so badly. if you guys dont want to do that then you have to "buy in" to the servers for his spot.

Last edited by johnld on 10/4/2011 2:16:15 AM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:01:11 AM

Online pass attaches to your activated PS3. Anyone can use the online pass if they are using your PS3. If you get a new PS3, you deactivate the old one and activate the new one WITH the original account that registered the ID to your PS3.

Family members can still play on your PS3 so long as your PSN ID has activated that PS3.

At least, that's what I thought....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/4/2011 9:02:36 AM

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:29:14 AM

I hope that's the way it is Underdog.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:35:46 AM

It is. It's basically an add-on from the PSN store. They all have been that way from Mortal Kombat to Medal of Honor to Resistance 3.

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wackazoa
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:58:47 AM

Jawknee you had said ...
"Even if they did people should be supporting the developers who make the games we enjoy and not the middle men who make 100% profit off of someone else's hardwork and commitment. You want to keep playing games? Then pay the people who make them not those who profit off the developers backs"

And then...
"You want to be a cheap skate and save $5 and cut ND out of the profit they deserve then you will have to pony up $10 if you wish to use their server space to play the game online. "


But I will counter with they are already getting paid, the first time the game is bought. What this actually hurts in more perspective, in my opinion, is the renters. The people who want to try before they buy so to speak. I rented Black Ops when it first came out and did the online. I didnt like the way the online games played with the people involved, Im more of a Killzone 3 and Medal of Honor fan. So I didnt buy Black Ops. I tried out MOH and loved the game but it didnt have enough variety for me so I didnt buy it.

I dont really have any simpithy for the people who buy it used but the people who are really getting screwed, and are often forgotten are the renters.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 1:45:40 PM

"But I will counter with they are already getting paid, the first time the game is bought."

So what? That next person who decided to buy used is still cutting ND out of a new sale and supporting a price gouging hack of a company called Gamestop.

In the end ND loses a sale to a 3rd party who had nothing to do with the creation or distribution of the said title. Also see JohnLD's counter argument to your argument. It's sily assume just because some one else bought the game first that ND isn't losing out in a potential sale.

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79transam
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:14:51 PM

So should I not be allowed to have a garage sale because it's cutting out the producer/creator of the goods I am selling? Golly Gee what about all the CD's and DVD's I have sold used on ebay guess I should go write chrysler a check for my liberty I bought used and better send GM a check for my 79 Trans Am that I bought used also. You mention price gouging, there is nothing more inflated then $60 for any game. Granted I dont buy used games until I save atleast 20 dollars off the retail price of new. Also gamestop has plenty to do with the distrubution of the game, they sell the game in the first place. I would not have bought UC and UC2 had I not gottem them used, for 15,20 bucks a few months ago. I also would not buy nearly the same amount of new games if I was not able to trade in my used games towards them, you fail to recognize that important part of the game buying cycle.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 5:06:41 PM

Enough with the car analogy. It's utter nonsense and many have already explained why. It's apples and oranges!

By the way, Chrysler should be paying YOU to drive that piece of crap.

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Crabba
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:25:08 PM

Jawknee too bad you missed 79transam's completely valid points about everything else but cars, like CD's, DVD's, books, used electronics or just about anything else of about a gazillion items you can buy/sell on ebay.

You also managed to miss his point that he wouldn't have been able to afford as many NEW games if he had not been able to trade or sell in his old used ones.

I guess if it doesn't work with your look on things it's not worth mentioning...

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 7:05:29 PM

Too bad you don't know how comprehend basic english.

Once again and for the final time...apples and oranges.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:36:42 PM

Jawk, one thing I have noticed about our society at large, is that even when faced with cold-hard facts like the ones you, Highlander, and I have been raising, people will refuse to acknowledge their existence just so they don't have to adjust their moral compass.

It's like a screaming 3 year old who refuses to go to bed at bedtime for the sole reason of, "BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA!!!!!!"

Any justification that can be found to ignore the facts will be given so that unwanted change isn't necessary.

Oh... and it's everyone else's fault, too.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:40:16 PM

Indeed. I have noticed how a great many of these people complaining about this on this thread are ignoring what we have posted. It's as if they didn't even read it.

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79transam
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 12:46:15 AM

"Too bad you don't know how comprehend basic english.

Once again and for the final time...apples and oranges."

What's too bad is your inability to make an argument without resorting to a personal attack rather then taking the intended content of the argument Crabba made into consideration.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 8:50:25 AM

79,
He addressed Crabba's point twice... but Crabba ignored everything Jawk said twice and then repeated what he said the first time...

If I were Jawk, I'd be frustrated too.

Stop judging comments as if they are stand-alone commentaries. Read the entire thread.

Crabba's points are brutally awful.

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wackazoa
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 2:49:35 PM

"So what? That next person who decided to buy used is still cutting ND out of a new sale and supporting a price gouging hack of a company called Gamestop. "


I think it all falls back on the old argument... what can you get for $2 million that you cant get for $1 million. There will always be those folks who (like me) say whats the big deal over an extra million per sea. I mean in the theoretical argument your are already set up for life with $1 million. You arent gonna hurt if you dont get that extra million so why fight over it.

My point is Naughty Dog isnt hurting. They wont close down tommorrow if they dont charge for online. Neither will Activision or EA. So most people will see this as strictly for the money side of things. Think ND as being greedy and rightfully so. The whole arugment that everyone is doing it doesnt hold water with me.


I dont think you have to charge people who buy games used to use online. Just my opinion. Some people will say once they start charging for this when will it stop. I agree with that. I like things like David Cage ( I think thats his name. From Heavy Rain. ) is doing in saying Im not going with the flow or following trends here, Im not about making crazy money, I just want to make games people care about, kinda stuff. But the only thing is the more people who follow the trends like charging for online there are, the fewer people like Cage there are. And pretty soon we on the PS3 have to start paying for internet gaming like the XBOX.


Just my thoughts........



Last edited by wackazoa on 10/5/2011 2:52:09 PM

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Crabba
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:46:37 PM

Jawk, I'm sorry I don't "know how comprehend basic english", maybe some people can also see the irony in that statement lol


Underdog15, "people will refuse to acknowledge their existence just so they don't have to adjust their moral compass". Well I guess the exact same thing can be said about you and Jawknee, but oh I know, my opinion is awful, and your opinion - Superior. Ok, I get it now.

Oh and "He addressed Crabba's point twice", I don't believe he addressed any of my, or 79transam's, points for that matter. All he said was that I lack english comprehension, but I guess that's one way of rebutting a point...

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Underdog15
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 10:21:39 AM

@Wakaoza
It's not a million here million there...

When you beat Uncharted 2, did you see the credits? Did you see how many names are there? Did you see how many people need to get paid? Do you know how many investors there are in NaughtyDog? Do you know what percentage of income is invested in future projects?

1 million is NOT a lot of money for an entire organization. It's not all going to one person

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Underdog15
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 10:37:30 AM

Crabba,

I haven't resorted to name calling.

Your points are legitimate if the only point of view that matters is the individual consumer's bottom line.

My point is that there is a far greater picture that you are ignoring. There are plenty of EASILY researched facts that you simply are not considering. If you could examine those same facts and provide a rebuttal, then YES... we would be forced to examine what you present and consider what we think.

However, you do not look at the bigger picture, nor do you address it. How do you expect me to change my point of view when you don't even challenge my point of view? All you do is go back to the original point you made that I refuted.

It isn't superiority complexes or anything like that. It's built up from a frustration of effectively being ignored and brushed aside.

So far as I can tell, you haven't considered where used game sales money goes vs. where money would go if it went to the publisher/developer.

I can tell you... Gamestop's business hierarchy distributes net income to 3 things. (Bear in mind, net income is AFTER paying hourly wages. So by net, I mean the money earned after paying everyone that NEEDS to be paid under labor laws)

1) The business owner/leasee.
2) The Game Stop franchise (includes CEO's, owners, and shareholders)
3) Opening future Game Stop stores, which effectively, increases the organization's overall net income.

In other words, everything is in the pursuit of CEO and owners increased wallets.

If it goes to the publisher/developer... after all employees are paid and you reach a net income, some does go to shareholders and owners as the value of the company increases, but a large percentage of the net income will go into investing in the company.

In other words, future projects will have larger staffs and staff members of higher expertise. You'll also see an ability for longer development cycles (which prolongs employment of employees). In other words, it -WILL- increase the potential quality that can be obtained.

Neither me nor Jawk are saying used sales are evil or bad. In fact, I never said you're a bad person for buying used.

My point is that the current business model for used sales is a bad one because there is no way a publisher/developer can recoup cost (before passes).

Car companies do NOT have this issue. They have sister companies that continue to make parts and mechanics who continue to make repairs. Book companies release new editions of text books and best sellers. In fact, most textbooks are re-published with a different organizing scheme every 2 years on average so students can't keep up in class easily if they buy their books used.

Used furniture depreciates in value and you risk potential health issues like allergens and bed bugs. You also risk weakened stability.


The fact is... the two simply CANNOT be compared. And you have not provided an argument that is counter productive to my way of thinking. You simply restate what I originally argued with. That is not any way to even give me an opportunity to reconsider my point of view.

Saying I have a superiority complex or whatever is not fair at all. I am always re-evaluating my stance on morality and opinions consistently. Even on this topic, my opinions have changed considerably in the last year. Anyone who listens to what I had to say from a year ago to know could probably also attest to the changed direction I have taken on this issue.

I ask you now... what about ANYTHING I have said to you now is unreasonable?

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Crabba
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 4:32:28 PM

Thank you Underdog for not resorting to namecalling this time around, that's very refreshing.

Well, I don't see anything unreasonable in what you just said, except for the used books, cars & furniture part since I don't see that there is anything different in depreciation in value in used games, dvds, blu-rays, books, cars or furniture. All are completely valid items to buy new, or used, and all of them WILL depreciate in value, as everything does, and all of these items come in new versions, models, packaging to try to sell new versions to consumers, including new models in cars, new editions in books, and new editions in games like GOTY, Greatest Hits etc.

I have also never said that game developers don't derserve to get paid, or that people shouldn't buy their games new to support them if they can and want to. But that could and should be said about any other product as well. If you like an author's new book, you should buy it new to support him/her, otherwise just like games he/she obviously won't see any money from it, and the same thing goes for DVD's/blu-ray's. If you buy a car from a non-brand dealer, they won't see any money from it either, and you can buy parts and service anywhere.

My original point though has nothing to do with this, it has to do with the PSN Pass, which a lot of people including me don't like. Resistance 3 obviously did not sell a truck-load of copies because of the PSN Pass, and might very well have sold fewer copies because of it. So then where does the 'game developers deserve to get money' come in, when they in R3 case at least clearly didn't?

That makes it just another nuisance for gamers, devaluating their games even further because functions are restricted to first use, not even considering other potential issues like using it on multiple accounts or PS3s.

This whole Pass thing is all about greed, which might very well back-fire into less revenue for the publisher/developer. The Games industry has grown into a billion dollar industry perfectly well for many years without any passes, with many popular games selling millions of copies, again without any passes, so why the sudden need for Passes? Because of some sudden idea that 'we can STILL get MORE', that spells GREED.

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Underdog15
Friday, October 07, 2011 @ 9:35:51 AM

First, know I'm totally with you about the current set up in used games. Nothing about anything done now is ideal. Passes are not ideal, in my mind, either. But I do think, unlike other industries, games do not have a way to continue support beyond first sale. I'll explain...

I already wrote lower about the car industry, books and more. Companies like Veriform, Cami, and more make auto parts under various brand names for their big brother companies. They are the ones that sell those replacement parts as well as new under various brand names. Yes, you can buy your parts from any joe shmoe mechanic, but it's still a part bought from a company that sends dividends of that sale back to Ford, GM, etc. Plus, repairs... it still supports the industry as a whole.

My point is that every industry out there has a plan in place to ensure continued revenue on products released to the public, even if that second hand sale does not come back to them.

Music and movies have DMV protection and laws that can be enforced for only private playing.

Furniture has harsh depreciation. (Once it leaves the store, it's worth half as much. Games, yeah, get sold to gamestop for 25, but are resold at 55 if new. They typically price 5 dollars under the MSRB)

Books release new editions, and text books become obsolete in 2 years requiring new purchases with every second class!

But games... without that online pass... they have nothing. DLC is different, because it's additional content and is optional. Those other industries I listed, even if product gets moved from customer to customer, they know at some point, they will likely recover some cost.


But hey, like I said, I'm totally with you on how passes aren't ideal. But until the industry experiences dramatic changes to make the gaming industry just as legitimate as every other industry, I'm having a hard time holding it against them. I don't see it as corporate greed, because most games that are made do not make anyone rich. Exceptions are Call of Duty and the like.

It's especially hard to think of it as corporate greed, when really, they're trying to gain more funds from even bigger corporations like gamestop... a corporation, that in my opinion, is the greediest of all!

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Crabba
Friday, October 07, 2011 @ 5:09:06 PM

You know, I'd agree with you if the games industry was on it's knees, hurting... Then I might have been able to agree with you that it would be understandable if they were looking for ways to be profitable. But let's face it, it's not, and the games industry is bigger today than it's ever been, even last I heard passing the movie industry in revenue, so why the need for greed? Where's the homeless developer looking for a handout?

I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on the used merchandise front, because while I agree that used cars isn't the best comparison to video games, because a lot of the money is made post-sale on cars, movies and books are very close, and you don't see book publishers giving out special codes needed if you want to read the last page of the book (maybe I shouldn't give them any ideas, eek!)

It also so happens that both the dvd/blu-ray industry and games industry have never been stronger, and that's without use of any dumb passes.

Also, why does gamestop and the number $55 always come up as soon as soon as used games are discussed? I never shop at gamestop, and I would NEVER pay $55 for a used game, if I could buy a new one for $60, that's just stupid. Especially considering you can usually buy pre-order/brand new games from Amazon/Newegg for like $40/$45.

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Him
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:35:25 PM
Reply

I'm not going to support any of this crap. Count me out. I miss the old days of gaming.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:02:44 PM

Not a big fan of Uncharted?

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Him
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:18:50 PM

I really liked Uncharted, but I just can't support this kind of practice.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:27:40 PM

And why is that? Please explain...seems to me that people with your mindset seem to think it's okay for developers to make games and not get paid for it. Every used sale is a lost sale for ND and those people who buy used think they are entitled to use server space ND has to pay to maintain without giving them the revenue to maintain it? Give me a break.

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Him
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:37:17 PM

When you buy uncharted, you are buying the right to use their servers for multiplayer. It just comes with the game. If you want to give money to play online servers just use Live on the Xbox.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:49:33 PM

That's only part if it. You're also paying for the right to use the software, the cost of packaging, the cost to make the game, the cost of the employees etc. If you buy the game used and fail to reward ND for their hardwork and dedication then you don't get to use their servers unless you throw in on the cost for server space and maintaince. Which is $10. Not a whole lot to ask. That's two failed analogies by you now. It's not the same as LIVE at all.

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godsman
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:09:08 PM

Jawknee,

You have to try and understand that gamers in this generation are accustomed to buying cheaper games used online. Although 10-20 years later, used game sales will diminish and no one will remember them anymore.

This act also take value out of your game as well. For those who buy games then trade them in for another newer one will probably be selling them for $10 less than usual.



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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:26:28 PM

In retrospective that doesn't matter. If developers don't make money there won't be anymore games to play or trade in.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:30:07 AM

@him

yes, i can agree with that part with a small correction. when you buy uncharted NEW, therefore the developer sees profit from that sale, you have the right to access THEIR SERVER for multiplayer.

If you buy a game used and the developer never saw a cent from your purchase, what are you to them? you are basically nothing to them! business wise, you are a lost sale and thats it. if you buy used knowing full well that you yourself know that you arent supporting them, then why should they cater to you? These online passes arent even a separate fee if you are buying the game new anyway. buying the game used SHOULDNT grant you a spot on their server because they are the one that has to pay to maintain that server. you have access to single player but not multiplayer. when you buy used, all the money goes to the retailer which doesnt have anything to do with running the game AT ALL.

You'll probably use that arguement that "the original customer already paid for the online, since i have his copy, it wont add any more to the system". the fact is that it does add more to the system. it has to add your profile and keep the previous owners profile. He paid for HIS spot and he's going to have that spot reserved whether he decides to sell the game or repurchase it again. you, when you buy used you didnt do anything to contribute to this system. you dont deserve a spot in the system because you didnt do anything to earn a spot. in this case, supporting a developer by buying a game new earns you a spot indefinitely.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:05:16 AM

It'll still be cheaper to buy used and then get a $10 online fee in most cases.

If anything, this will drive down Gamestop's ability to resell a new used game at $55. In order to be worth it, they'll have to sell at $45 to compete.

You silly kids are over-reacting.

As for me, I love Uncharted and will be buying it brand new day one. And because it's so damn good, I'll never sell it.

Win - me.

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:40:06 AM

If it comes to the day to a customer that wants to buy a certain game used, (that originally came with a online pass if bought new) where do u buy the online pass?

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:53:48 AM

PSN. Most games help you do it right from within the game itself. If you don't have a credit card, you can simply buy a PSN card at the same time you buy your game used, I figure.

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:19:42 AM

I hope one day they can take paypal.

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79transam
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:18:56 PM

Jawknee your cost argument does not hold water. I person A buys UC3 and keeps it forever they have paid for the packing and all associated costs with that game, now if person A sells said copy of UC3 and person B plays it, person B has now taken over person A's ownership and ND has not had to repackage, produce, or maintain anything for person B, because it's like person A never left.

in simple terms for everybody person A paid the frieght for person B and is no longer involved

Last edited by 79transam on 10/4/2011 4:20:52 PM

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 5:12:52 PM

Of course it holds water if you are capable of precessing rational thought and are able to look at this without your biased, cheapskate rose colored glasses on. When you buy a videogame you aren't buying the software on the disc, merely the lisence to use that software and places like Gamestop have no right to sell those licenses. Again, your examples are apples and oranges.

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Crabba
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:27:51 PM

Again Jawknee, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion, it doesn't mean their opinion is "wrong", but I guess that's a little bit too advanced...

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:56:27 PM

when you buy a used game from someone, you're buying the disc itself. you can play single player because that doesnt affect anyone else directly but online multiplayer is a whole different subject. it takes money to run and maintain servers, i'm not an expert and even i know that. customer A bought the game new therefore he supported the developers. thats his spot on the server and noone elses. you bought a game used from customer A. you bought the game so you can play campaign but you didnt buy his spot on the server since the developer doesnt see anything from that sale. if he sold you his psn id along with the game then yes, you are going to take his spot in the server. but the fact is, the first person's psn id isnt part of the sale so he still holds the rights to that server space. you're going to use a different psn id therefore you arent taking the guys space in the server, you're making your own space. its basically common sense. no two things can occupy the same space at the same time.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 7:09:04 PM

Crabba, not all opinions are equal or valid. Just because it's an opinion, it doesn't mean it's correct but I guess in this little "everything is reletive, there are no universal truths" world you live in, everyone is right and no one can be wrong.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/4/2011 7:09:42 PM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:39:59 PM

Unitarianism in and of it self is a contradiction.

Opinions are only useful if you are willing to, on occasion, scrutinize your own opinions and consider changing them after objectively weighing facts.

Most people are not willing to do that if it means changing a behavior they do not want to change. It's a really strange, survival of the fittest instinct that is ruled by opinion instead of fact.

It can be a dangerous complex, actually, when it encompasses a much more serious topic.

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79transam
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 12:36:17 AM

Jawknee I am capable of rational thought, thus far it is you who has been totally unable to accept any challenge to your opinions, and when faced with a question you can not answer you simply state "apples and oranges", never mind for a second that apples and oranges are far more similar then they are different(both are fruit, have seeds, grow on trees, etc).

Fact of the matter is person A paid the freight for person B and person A is no longer in the picture however the publisher does not know that. I never once argued that buying/selling used games does not fall into a gray area of the law, I am simply stating a fact that and publisher is not taking on additional cost for person A transferring ownership to person B. Yes had person B bought brand new the profits would go to the publisher, however all buying used does is cost the publisher potential but there is not a measurable cost associated with person B now being the owner of the game. I fail to see how such a simple concept as this has alluded you? So i say it again person B playing the game is no different then if person A had continued playing the game.

Also not a cheapskate and over 90% of my video game purchases are brand new copies. You resorting to personal attacks simply shows the lack of a rebuttal to my argument.

Last edited by 79transam on 10/5/2011 12:38:33 AM

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79transam
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 1:06:41 AM

Jawknee I should also mention that I'm not necessarily against the online pass I just don't believe that used game sales add an additional cost to the developer.

I understand your passionate defense of the UC series and its devs, it's rare in today's gaming world where you get a quality title that is actually worth 60 bucks and to me that is where the problem lies and why I will still continue to buy some games used(mainly games I am iffy about) However because I bought UC and UC2 used, suffered through UC(thought it was nothing special) but made it to UC2 and found it many times better I am now BUYING a NEW copy of UC3. Had I never bought UC and UC2 used I would never have thought of getting UC3 new. Truth be told have not spent 1 second on the UC MP.

I also really think you are totally ignoring the fact that many people rely on used game trade in's to buy games new. I can think of 5 people I know personally that have traded games in to BB or GS and reserved copies of UC3, MW3, BF3, AC, or Batman.

I really believe this is the point where we are left with nothing to do other then agree to disagree.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 8:53:23 AM

Transam,
Read my response lower. Jawknee refers to them. Or you can read what we've all written in past threads on this topic.

We've done more than enough to present our points.

The fact is, anyone who has actually been apart of the ENTIRE conversation, knows what Jawknee means be "apples and oranges". The argument that fully fleshes out what he means by that has been stated a few times now.

Now, you can read some comments lower, or I can copy/paste.... If I were you, it might be more worth your time to just read the entire thread if you want to make a more educated response.

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InBlackestNight
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:37:51 PM
Reply

What's peoples problem with online pass? It's only to keep greedy corporations like gamestop from gouging prices. People think you have to pay this fee to play online. It's included with new copies of this game that DOES NOT NEED MULTIPLAYER. I'm so tired of companies shoving online down our throats.

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PAKINIPS
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:40:27 PM

If someone buys a used game from gamestop then they are the ones that have to pay more. Gamestop still get their money and it's the customer getting screwedd

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:43:37 PM

That's Gamestop screwing the customer over in more the one way now. If you buy a game at $55 from Gamestop that's used, it's the customers own fault knowing full well that they also must shell out another $10 for the online pass. Actually at that point your ripping yourself off.

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Snaaaake
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:53:43 PM

$55 for a used game?!?!?!?!
For real bigrailer?

I never been to Gamestop nor bought a game used but $55 for that is simply ridiculous.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:01:38 PM

They tend price their games $5 less then what they are going for new. So if the game is $60 new, Gamestop will charge $55, if the game is marked down to $30 new, Gamestop will charge $25 and so on. It's a scam.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:47:29 AM

Yea $55 it's ridiculous. And the thing is is people will eat it up lol. I just don't get it. If you really can't afford the $5, reserve the game like 5 months in advance that way when u go to pick it up it'll be only a $55 balance. Or as jawknee said it goes down the line depending on the price of the game.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 3:21:16 AM


Not to be harsh, but I really think you guys need to stop singing that same ole $55 song & dance as your only example. Those used games priced at $55 usually sit there like a stinking soiled diaper till they drop further in price.
FYI, I'm constantly in at least 2 of my 5 local GS/EB stores every day, & I've never seen anyone buy a used game at $55, especially these days, since more & more developers are adding their extra in-game content and/or pre-order bonuses as a D/L code.

The "average" of everyone I DO see buying used, happens to be around the $34.99 to $39.99 price range. You can trust me on that cause as a hard-core collector, I'll make bet that not one of you will ever spend as much time in all the GS/EB stores that I do(whether you wanted to or not, LOL).

Of course I can see a twitcher buying $55 game, but that's probably only because has no patience & needs it yesterday, or someone because all his buddies are multi-playing it.

But who else in their right mind would "buy at 55"????

I buy both, new games & used games, but I've never bought a used game at GS for $55 dollars. And why would I???

I mean since you're already buying it used just to save money, why wouldn't the smarter gamers just wait till the game's dropped down to at least $35, which usually only takes a few months with the majority of games(unless of course it's that must-have game just because all your buds have it, and surely you need to keep up with the Jone'ses too).

As for myself, I usually buy my used games from GS in batches once they've dropped somewhere down to the $20's range, or around $35 during GS's "B2-G1 free" deals.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:11:11 AM

The funniest and saddest part of all, is the number of people that will pay the $55 to save the $5, then invest $3 for scratch insurance.

LOL!!!

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tes37
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:06:39 AM

Gamestop will sell you a used game and tell you it's new. They say they open it to put the disc behind the counter to reduce theft, but there's usually just one empty case on the shelf for display. They could sell used copies all day long for brand new prices. I've seen them do this.

They'll never get to do that again as long as the online pass is around. F*** Gamestop.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:25:36 AM

Bikersaint-

I used Gamestop as an example I could care less how many people actually are buying games at $55 used. The fact of the matter is Gamestop was use as an example by the commenter before me so I stuck with using their name. And let's be honest regardless of how many people may or may not buy those $55 used games, a new release that's used will be on gamestops shelf for $55 until a price drop comes around.

I think using Gamestop is legit, and we can rightly make an example of them.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 3:35:36 AM

tes37,

Yeah, I know that effing trick too, the register biscuits take new games home to play them & then bring it back to sell as new.

If I were to buy any new game at GS, they had better give me one still in the original wrap.
I don't excepte any new games that have been opened.

As far as I'm concerned, once the wrap's off & they've opened or touched the insides, it's used, period. And it will be refused as new.

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bigrailer19
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:38:51 PM
Reply

It shouldn't matter regardless. As good as the mp is, which is one of my favorite mp games. The series is regarded as one of the best because of the SP Story and campaign, fans of the series know this, so it shouldn't hurt!

If your planning on buying any game new, there is no reason to complain anyways!

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Riku994
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:39:42 PM
Reply

I don't plan on getting rid of my Uncharted 3...

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DazeOfWar
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 9:45:44 PM
Reply

Doesn't bother me any. Game is payed off already. I personally think every game made should come with a pass just to see if it really hurts sales. I would love to see how many people would say they are going to give up gaming altogether.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:01:02 PM

Online gaming, perhaps...

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DazeOfWar
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:15:06 PM

I knew I'd get some negatives for that. I buy all my games new so never have cared about online passes. Plus like I've said before if it bothers people so much, they should bargain shop.

I don't care much for online only games like say MMO's. So I would never agree to a monthly fee to play a game. Online passes are just a onetime fee or free if game is bought new.

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PasteNuggs
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:44:01 PM

@Daze
I gave you a positive.

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DazeOfWar
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:52:37 PM

I appreciate it Paste. lol.

People complain so much about the online pass and say they are not going to buy the game if it has one so I'm just wondering how many would give up gaming if it became a normal thing.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:13:37 AM

I betcha if all publishers did that, even if people boycotted them, they would still bring in more revenue.

Before long, Gamestop will be forced to re-sell used games at a much smaller price than $5 cheaper.

People may not like it now, but I fully believe this will move gaming in a good direction... and in the long run, it will make the cost of gaming cheaper as used game companies are forced to sell their games for cheaper (more reasonable) used prices.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:00:28 PM
Reply

Won't effect anyone interested in buying the game brand new. Plus, Uncharted has a reputation for a quality single player experience, the multiplayer is just a bonus! :)

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Eld
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:02:41 PM
Reply

Sp is next on the chopping block.

But, no I don't believe this will hurt Uncharted 3, because people want to play it for sp which is untouched... for now.

Last edited by Eld on 10/3/2011 10:09:05 PM

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:35:25 PM

"Sp is next on the chopping block."

What does this even mean? And why is Uncharted's single player only safe "for now" when the game is a single player game first and a multiplayer one second?

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PasteNuggs
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:45:38 PM

@Jawknee

I think what he means is that developers might start somehow involving the pass with single players games. Kinda like the Rage sewer thing I suppose.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:57:18 PM

If that's what he means that's a stretch considering the fact that the $60 fee to pay to aquire the game is THE fee. From my understanding the sewers in Rage were cut due to space limitations *coughXboxcough* and is just being sold to us as an add-on like other content that is cut for the same reasons(L.A. Noire). Rage is a huge game with or without the sewers so I fail to see how that's a good example...if that is indeed what he had in mind.

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Eld
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:23:45 PM

PasteNuggs is correct.

You are very naive if you believe they are going to stop here. Only question is how long will it take? 2-3 years maybe.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:29:35 PM

Oh really now? Please explain to me how a developer is going to get away with selling us a singe player game then making us pay again to play it once we get it home? That's asinine.

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Eld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:05:24 AM

Are you seriously asking that question? How? You believe there is no way it can be done, or it's too difficult.

Besides, who said you're getting a full game on the disc:)

Anyway, it's 1Am. Good night.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 3:39:48 AM

<<<<From my understanding the sewers in Rage were cut due to space limitations *coughXboxcough* and is just being sold to us as an add-on like other content that is cut for the same reasons(L.A. Noire).>>>>

Jawknee,
Actually, No they weren't.....

When it was 1st rumored that the man-hole covers were welded down for 2nd hand buyers, I read an interview article where a couple of the top guys from there actually stated "Tough sh*t" & they could care less that 2nd hand buyers couldn't play the full SP in the game.

So I can foresee this happening quite a lot more often in the future with the SP side of games too.

And whenever somebody decides to take an inch, usually there a bunch of others just waiting in the wings to follow suit, and grab miles & miles.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/4/2011 3:46:27 AM

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 5:09:00 PM

Actually Biker the sewers add-on is just that. An add-on. It's not akin to Crapcom locking content on the disc then selling you a key to unlock it. It's a full fledged piece of DLC that is given to the newer purchaser as a bonus. If used buyers want it they can get it for $10 off PSN now. Considering how much content is already in this game without the sewers you're still getting a full package deal for your money.

Last edited by Jawknee on 10/4/2011 5:15:09 PM

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BikerSaint
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 3:42:47 AM

Jawknee,
True, but the sewer's are already in the game & should be playable for all. It's not like it's a expansion.

They should get enough pass$$ from used game multi-players, they don't need to start targeting SP modes too.
Just wait & see, as more & more developers will start targeting the SP modes too.

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Snaaaake
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:12:05 PM
Reply

Does it matter?
Without online pass people buy it used and it's not giving ND any sales.
With online pass, those who used to buy used games still aren't gonna buy a new copy and still not giving ND any sales.

Besides, this is Uncharted, they can remove the multiplayer and I'm still buying the game new.

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Him
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:23:10 PM

So what if the money doesn't go to the developer. Used car sales aren't going to the manufacturers. Once you own the property, then you actually "own" the property not the manufacturer or developer. Part of the property of Uncharted is the online multiplayer.

Last edited by Him on 10/3/2011 10:26:33 PM

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Snaaaake
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:30:33 PM

Exactly my point, it's not like the pass is required to play the game.
With online pass, it's not gonna hurt the sale but a bit. Though we'll have less players on the multiplayer field.

Last edited by Snaaaake on 10/3/2011 10:34:50 PM

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:33:00 PM

You are buying the disc and a license to use that software on the disc. Not the software. It's not even remotely the same as a used car sale.

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Snaaaake
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:43:26 PM

Well in a way we own the game though, and even if ND goes bankrupt or what, we're still playing the game.
But to maintain the online server requires resources which obviously gives them the right to charge online pass if you're buying it used.

And the day they charge extra IN ORDER TO PLAY THE GAME when you buy the game used is the day Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all merge together.

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Jawknee
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:03:12 PM

You only own the license. Not the software but I see what you mean.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 1:54:03 AM

i'm tired of people using the used car arguement concerning used game sales so i'm gonna poke some hole into it. Have you ever even bought a used car, even any car for that matter? once that warranty expires, theres no warranty on used games, you have to pay for everything to maintain it. you pay for parts to maintain it and the gas so that you can keep using it. you have to pay for insurance and other fees to use it. you are still paying to use the car. its not like you bought the car and can use it indefinitely without putting more money into it.

The difference between used games and used cars is that theres a third party directly involved when you play your video games, the developers who maintain THEIR OWN servers. you arent chipping in to pay for the servers every month. when your ownership/use of the car, there really is no third party directly related to your car.

i have to admit, i'm starting to lose my train of thought here. damn white knight chronicles 2 and the 1% item drop rate.

anyway, you/your account is on their servers even though you decide to sell the copy of your game. This online pass, which isnt really a fee if you buy the game used, is basically paying for you to use their servers until they decide to close them down. Let me ask this question, would you rather they charge you per month for server fees indefinitely even though you dont play a game online anymore? you'd still be required to pay because your account information will still be on their servers. maybe even a termination fee if you want to completely remove yourself from their servers.

Last edited by johnld on 10/4/2011 2:05:35 AM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:15:53 AM

It's no use John...

Me and Highlander have been telling people how stupid their car analogy (or book analogy, or any non-software analogy for that matter) is for a long time now.

It doesn't matter. People would rather remain ignorant than challenge their own point of view. So much for the pursuit of knowledge and understanding....

In a consumeristic society that demands entitlement to things, that, when considering how many people live in the world, no one deserves to begin with, you will eternally have people defending the consumer so long as it saves a buck.

Any actual facts are irrelevant. I applaud your attempt, though.

Why has no one else realized now... the entire used sales model is what's wrong with the picture... not Gamestop, not the consumer, not the publishers.... All three groups are out for their own benefit... what they don't realize is that 2 of the 3 groups would benefit most from a more co-operative sales model. (Used Sales companies would never want to change. They benefit more than the helpless publishers and the dim-witted consumers.)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/4/2011 9:19:12 AM

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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:21:43 AM

Does the automobile manufacturer get a piece of any replacement parts required to maintain the car? Not sure, but if true this would provide the automobile manufacturer some payback on used car sales.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:05:02 AM

Wiley, I live in southwestern Ontario. There are lots of automobile manufacturers around me. Within half an hour are Cami, Autotube, Veriform, Meridian, and a couple smaller ones. They all manufacture for major companies like Dodge and Ford. There is also a major Ford plant half an hour from me.

I have a few friends of the family who work for some of them. Since I am an employment counselor for youth, I also help young adults find work who have been laid off from them in recent years.

Car parts are not all made in the same place. Assembly plants ship most parts in from the variety of other plants. Veriform, for example, makes car frames, bumpers, and other safety features.

These plants don't only make parts for the assembly plants. They also make replacement parts that are shipped to various repair shops on order. These plants are also often owned by Ford/Dodge/GM etc.

So, although a used car sale doesn't give anything back to the manufacturer, repairs etc. do have a trickle back effect to the companies that make the parts for those vehicles, and by association, to Ford/Dodge/GM.

For as long as a vehicle Ford makes is in operation, they will continue to make money on repairs and parts for the rest of that car's life. How many things need to be replaced at various KM's? At 100KM's (or roughly 60 miles) you have to replace the timing belt, transmission belt, and AC belt, typically, for example. For some parts you can get non-brand parts, but they have less or no warranty and are typically of lower quality. Most of the non-brand parts that do have warranty's are made by the exact same people who have the name brand stuff to begin with!!!!

For example, for a Dodge Caravan, you can get a new timing belt from Dodge for about $180-200. OR you can opt for the cheaper brand for about $130-150! The catch? They are made at the exact same plant and the money still goes to Dodge. lol!

With games, as is, once a game is sold new, that's it for income. Period.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:48:16 PM

@underdog

i know, theres no room for truth and logic on the internet. it was just bugging me so i had to say something.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 8:55:07 AM

The downvotes are proof of ignorance. I'm actually ok with it in this type of discussion.

It's just sad, though. It's like they think we are attack them, when really, we're just trying to make a commentary on how the structure of game sales needs to change to benefit people.

The saddest part of all is that consumers don't realize they are just as victimized as the publishers. Used sales corporations are dancing on their wallet's graves.

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ZettaiSeigi
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:14:35 PM
Reply

I don't really care if it does require Online Pass. I always buy my games new and most of my friends who owns PS3 like having their own copies too. Still a day one purchase for me.

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PasteNuggs
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:40:58 PM
Reply

Anyone who doesn't buy this new should have their gamer card revoked. ND deserves every penny they get.

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Bloodysilence19
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 10:58:26 PM
Reply

I'm going to buy it new cause its UC. UC sp alone is going to sell the game, mp is just mir bonus add on. Could the online pass hurt game sales maybe till UC3 hits who knows.

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SaiyanSempai
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:01:42 PM
Reply

Personally, despite people's negative view of online pass, I think it's a good idea. Servers cost money to maintain, and Developers don't see any money from the used market.

And it doesn't effect people who buy new games already, so it won't make a difference in my life at all.

People should be buying these games new anyway - often, you can find games new at Amazon or elsewhere online for cheaper than the used game at gamestop.

For instance...NEW ICO/Collossus collection price just dropped to $25 online at Best Buy, how much is the used version at Gamestop? Probably $5 less than cost considering it's a new release, so $35.

How you like them apples?!

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SaiyanSempai
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:04:20 PM
Reply

You said it Pastenuggs!

Buying used = Gaming foul

And just a flat out bad decision, when, like I said above, you can find it new online for less than used at Gamestop.

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JackDillinger89
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:11:16 PM
Reply

After playing U3 from subways promo offer idgaf if U3 is $100 i buy it day 1. Resistance 3 and the psn pass was a diff. story but the sheer quality and polish the multiplayer has gone through since the beta many months ago (still was a polished experience) and now im sure Everybody that experiences this masterpiece its a no brainer. PSN pass or not sony did right by teaming up with subway (everyone loves there $5 footlong fix) to property promote an exclusive AAA title better than microsoft ever did with halo/gears francise. Now everyone cant have an excuse on missing the online acsess early for a month long for a lousy $1.80 fountain soda (make sure it has U3 code on cup) gets you a $60 value alone with 50-100+ hours of early acsess of ass kicking gameplay and it carries over to the retail game online stats. Now i cant even touch my gears of war 3 thanks to subway.

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Gamer Girl Gemo
Monday, October 03, 2011 @ 11:54:58 PM
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Seeing as I'm playing the UC3 MP right now as I type, I can believe that they would charge for the online pass. For a MP this addicting and great, I feel like the pass is required. However, in its own way, it does seem to defeat the purpose of the PSN being free. But, I don't think most of us here will necessarily have to worry about it due to what I've read that most of us have it pre-ordered already. UC3 is just way too good to not get on day one. I ultimately can't wait for the storyline!

Not to mention, the three team deathmatch is pretty awesome :D

Last edited by Gamer Girl Gemo on 10/3/2011 11:57:18 PM

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:47:00 PM

online support for uncharted videogames are top notch compared to developers like infinity ward who just completely ignore problems with their game because it already released and only half the community has a problem. i dont think they do anything unless a glitch happens to every single one of their players.

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djbool
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:02:32 AM
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Hurts it for me. I have a backlog of games and won't be picking this up day one or month two most likely :(

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:39:28 AM

So? If you buy it new in a month or two you still won't have to pay for the pass. It's discourages used sales, not new sales a month or two after it's release.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:45:12 PM

this is what i do if i'm not buying a game day 1. i just look around after it launches, wait for a good price, buy it, continue playing my other games. chances are new videogames wont go below 35 one or two months after launch.

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AshT
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:17:44 AM
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I dont play Unchater for multiplayer, so it doesnt hurt me, anyway this is a D1P for me so doesnt matter.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:18:49 AM
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yes it will hurt sales. many people have a negative view of online passes and tend to avoid games that have them. it's just that simple.

it is a controversial issue that always seems to focus around gamestop. the simple fact is that used game sale are legal. i'm not going to condem my fellow gamers for wanting to save some money. i'm not going to tell them to make a purchase online either. not everyone is comfortable doing that. it's a free market system and used game sales are just a natural part of it.

i also fear this online pass system will make its way into sp games. we already see evidence of that with games such as rage, and me2.

don't be surprised if u3 does not get the sales it deserves. gears 3 sold over 3 million copies in 1 week in na alone. i wonder how sony's triple a fall release will perform in comparison.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:40:18 AM

Considering Uncharted 3 continues to climb the preorder charts I doubt it's going to make much of an impact.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:50:45 AM

Considering most people who are fans of the franchise, know it's all about the single player, and the mp is just a huge bonus. It shouldnt affect Uncharted at all.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:56:25 AM

Also who cares how well Uncharted compares to gears in sales? Quality not quantity. I know ND and Sony would love big sales but as a fan I just appreciate the games they give me, I'll always support Sonys first party devs.

Why is it that everything is based on sales numbers. Why would we ever judge a game on it's sales?

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/4/2011 12:58:49 AM

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:53:39 AM

i hope you are right. i'm not so sure how many would be buying u3 for its mp experience anyways. an online pass might not have a big impact on this game.

when r3 kind of flopped despite good reviews it gave me the impression gamers were waiting on the bigger releases coming this fall. if they don't pull the trigger on u3 then i will be left scratching my head.

@bigrailer

yas, quality over quanity. having said that it would be nice to see a ps3 exclusive light up the charts.




Last edited by Excelsior1 on 10/4/2011 2:57:37 AM

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:43:14 PM

all i know is that i didnt buy resistance 3 because i was buying white knight chronicles 2 a bit later. i'm still looking at resistance 3 but i'm waiting for a good price since i still have a backlog of games to go through.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:45:15 AM
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Geez, can't believe so many people want to whine over something like this. If you're not buying the game new why the hell do you even think you deserve to play on servers you didn't pay for. Do your share and buy the game new and voila. You have no worries, hakuna matata.

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Darwin1967
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:04:59 AM
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This will be a game fly purchase for me. I've got plenty of other games I can play with, and by the time I get UC3, the price will have dropped, I'll pay less and still be able to play online if I decide the buy the game (the code will be shipped with the box). I've always invested in the UC series for their inredible SP storylines/graphics and gameplay. I could care less about their MP addition. I didn't touch it in UC2 and seriously doubt I'll play MP in UC3.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:18:48 AM

I was wondering how gamefly and stuff work that out. So they pretty much have to buy everyone a code every time someone rents the game or what?

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mk ultra
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 5:18:47 AM

I will be doing the same thing. I can't afford to be buying as many new games anymore. Gamefly gives me the best opportunity to play as many games as I want to, and buy the ones i really need in the collection at a pretty fair price.

@LW
If you rent a game with an online pass from GF you cant go online but if you purchase the game they send you a new case, manual and any codes or passes that were included.

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Fane1024
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 4:32:48 AM

Wolfeh,
IIRC EA's online pass system allows free online play for a week before you need the pass, so renters could sample it. I expect that will become standard practice.

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Lawless SXE
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:13:37 AM
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New purchase for the SP campaign. The Pass I understand, but I care not for MP. That is all.

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___________
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:17:21 AM
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of course it will!
allot of people hate this online pass BS, which is fair enough!
what i cant understand though is why people buy preowned games in the first place.
every single time i have done so i have saved myself 10 bucks MAX!
the box or manual has been ripped, the disk has been scratched to kingdom come to the point my ps3 wont read it.
so i have to take it back and get in a shouting contest with the manager over who scratched the disk.
no thanks, i think ill rather spend the extra 10 bucks and save myself the hassle!

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:29:57 AM

I think you just gave yourself enough reason not to hate the online pass at all, considering you hate buying used games.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:41:32 PM

i somehow dont believe his story. it takes a lot to scratch a ps3 bluray disc. where the hell are you buying your game? or are you scratching it on purpose? i sense someone exaggerating a bit. if you said 360 disc then thats more believable.

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Venomous92
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:28:57 AM
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Haha! I didn't realize how many gamers were such tightwads!!! You're either gonna be so into uncharted 3 that it'll be a day one purchase and the price clearly doesnt concern you or you'll wait for it to hit platinum which coincidentally won't be far off given the uncharted franchise's success so far. 10 bucks in the grand scheme of things is piddly. Besides we're all in it for the single player regardless right?

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Zorigo
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:20:02 AM

He's dead right tho, im a d1p guy for uncharted so this doesnt really affect me!

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 2:45:18 AM
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from what i can gather, all these crap about online pass is just misplaced sense of entitlement. When you buy a game new, like you should, there isnt a separate fee that you need to pay in order to access the online component of the game. just plug in the code and there it is. people buy new, developers get their cut, developers makes new games or maintains their assets, keeps the industry moving. how hard is it to understand that if you buy used games, you dont support the developers who created and maintain the game? why would they have to cater to you if all you are to them is a lost sale? you dont deserve anything because in this system, you are a nobody. if you really want to buy a game but dont want to pay the full price then just wait for a sale.

if people who buy used feel "entitled" to access the online component that the developers themselves maintain, shouldnt we be rewarded for buying a game new to separate us from these people? but then they'll feel that they're entitled to that as well.

i am JohnLD, i use gamestop as a free rental store and buy all my games new someplace else most of the time cheaper than buying a game used at gamestop.

btw anyone interested in mass effect 2, i think bikersaint is, its $20 bucks new at best buy.

Last edited by johnld on 10/4/2011 2:48:03 AM

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:03:49 AM
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Hey thanks for the ME2 tip,

The lowest I've seen it new was during Amazon's B1, G1 1/2 off sale(for $39.99) a few days ago.

I'm going to head over to BB's online right now & hopefully the sale is still on & they've got 1 left.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:38:37 PM

no problem man, i go to cheapassgamer everyday to find good deals i'm just passing the information along.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 3:49:52 AM

johnld,
As soon as I read your "ME 2 for cheap", I went right online ASAP & bought it, then saved my $2.99 shipping cost by having them drop it at my local store, where I picked it up less than 2 hours later.
That wound up as a great deal all the way around.

BTW, I need to start checking in with CAG more often than I normally do.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/6/2011 3:51:03 AM

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Zorigo
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:18:31 AM
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TBH no i dont think it will affect sales. I dont know anyone who's after uncharted for primarily the MP over the SP.
Heck uncharted 2 is the only game i ever paid full price for! (got u:df free with my ps3)
Frankly, if you do wanna buy it used to save on cost just make sure its more than $10 cheaper than full price. That way if you do get MP, you dont go over standard price!

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clockwyzebkny
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:54:02 AM
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I don't think the online pass is a good idea in general. I think it makes consumers more apprehensive about purchasing the game period. Some may opt for the new copy while may not care and get it used and may not play the multiplayer.
Nevertheless, i feel like Uncharted 3 will sell well regardless. But i think publishers should think about this online pass strategy a bit more.

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kellett007
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 7:03:50 AM
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I have already preordered the collectors edition from amazon so its not an issue for me. I really don't see why people get so upset about the whole online pass thing.Just my opinion but I feel like a lot of gamers have a entitled mentality when it comes to this sort of thing. Its simply an action the developers are taking to help ensure they can put food on the table.

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D1g1tal5torm
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 7:58:42 AM
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Doenst matter for me - not really into the third person multi.

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Sogi_Otsa
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 8:27:17 AM
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It'll hurt a little, but i think the true fans will still pick it up. i never got much into uncharted or playing online, but people did so this won't hurt the sales noticeably at least.

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TrophyHunter
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 8:55:56 AM
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I don't really care for online pass on U3, usually buy this game for the amazing single player campaign

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pavlovic
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:37:15 AM
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The problem is that all this Sony Online Pass is extremely new... to Sony. The same complains where made when EA made their move and now nobody cares and Fifa and Madden sell like pancakes.

I really don't care for online passes.

I buy my games new and in the remote case that I buy an used game I'll check if the price paid and the online pass are at least 10 USD less than buying the game new. Otherwise I'll stick with a brand new game.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:40:04 AM
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The sooner every publisher starts with the passes, the better.

But hear me out... I doubt I'll say what you all think I'll say. lol

Think about it... what will happen if EVERY publisher begins with the online pass?

Suddenly, the $5 MSRB undercut is not a big enough undercut, anymore. In fact, it's now become a poor investment. Instead of a new game at $60, a used $55 game will now cost you $65 (and $68 if you are sucker enough to buy the $3 scratch insurance). Even if you paid $25 for that EB games card to save 10% on used games, it'd still work out to being more worth your time to buy new.

What will happen is this: places like Gamestop will be forced to lower their used prices even further. Sure, what you get for trading in will be lower, but that deflation won't matter since the cost of buying used will also go down. So no foul there.

And Gamestop won't really be willing to cut it down by only $10 either... because most consumers are smart enough to know that if their end cost (with hastle of buying pass) of buying used is exactly the same as buying new, consumers will go for the new every time.

No, if everyone forces passes (especially for both full SP accessibility and MP!!!), your used sales market will end up costing far less.

This is EXCELLENT for SP only players. Games will be cheaper for them. Period.

For MP players, the initial cost will be much cheaper, and when you incorporate the pass, it'll still be a cheaper option than buying new.


You see, in the end, used game companies will be hurt a little... but not much. They'll just give you less for a traded in game. Which won't hurt much because the cost of a used game will be cheaper anyways. Publishers will retain more income for their percentage distributions back into the industry. And gamers STILL have cheaper options available to them.

The only ones that lose are used game companies... and lets face it... they won't lose much.

So in addition to SP only players getting games for WAY cheaper, MP players getting games for essentially just as cheaply as they always did... People like me and others who collect games and ONLY buy new, suddenly their new games have more worth.

And really, to me, something brand new should be worth more than a used version, anyways. So now buying new is even more rewarding than it already is.

Anyways, right now, I know it sucks for some people.

But really... it doesn't suck that much. Not really. And in the long run, the industry will retain far more income, which is good for games, consumers will continue to have options, and gamestops around the world will be forced to offer much more fair prices.


It's honestly not that big of a deal, people.

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jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:52:24 AM

I love your dedication to this topic, Underdog.

I hope it does drive Gamestop's ridiculous used game prices down though. Unfortunately it hasn't been the case last I checked.

I strolled into one by work last week and Resistance 3 used is still going for 54.99. HOWEVER, the trade in value for Resistance 3 at places like Amazon is grossly underpriced (I think they're offering to pay $8 for it). I'm assuming because of the PSN pass. Stuff like that kind of sucks for gamers who buy new and look to trade in to save a few bucks for future purchases. So prices for used games have not changed, but trade-in value has = big loss for gamers ballin' on a budget.

As for this affecting UC3 sales, I suspect only a very small few would boycott buying Uncharted. If you've been enjoying the subway MP Beta thing you'd realize this game is worth preordering.

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:10:52 AM

I always play it smart when I'm always in a gamestop or EB games.

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wiley_kyotee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:19:02 AM
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I am a little confused. Gamers who were planning to buy the game new, will not now because when they trade it in they may get $10 less on that trade? Will GS give them $10 less on the trade? Regarding used sales, what does ND care if less people buy UC3 used? Without the online pass, they wouuld not see a penny on any of the used game sales anyway unless the used game buyer buys DLC for the game. With the online pass, there may be less used game sales but ND will receive guaranteed revenue from those sales it the used game buyer wants to play MP.

What I am trying to ask is do gamers truely take into account how much trade in value a game will be worth when they buy a new game? Will they not buy a game new because they know they cannot lend it out to others and know that the lendee cannot play the MP without paying a fee? Is this much thought placed into a new game purchase?

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pavlovic
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:27:28 AM

Amazing, isn't?

The fact is that if Online Passes affect new game sales it is because those potential buyers were allready thinking in selling their games.

They can choose no to use their OP and sell the game on ebay advertising the Online Pass.

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wackazoa
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 12:06:08 PM
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Coincidently maybe the problem with Gamestop is the same problem with exclusive sports title like Madden. No competition. I remeber the days of going to gamestop, then EB games, then Rhino games(thats what we had down here) and getting the best trade in value for our games we could. Now that gamestop bought out the competition they set the rules.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 1:56:29 PM

it doesnt matter if theres competition, companies will take as much as they can and give you as little back as possible concerning game trades.

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wackazoa
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 2:58:08 PM

Competition breeds better pricing and better products for the consumer........ most times.


Ex.... If I sell water for $1 and someone else comes in and charges 0.98 for theres I will lose money. I will have to drop my price or lose customers. Not all probably because there will still be people who are loyal.

As for used games I used to get different prices at different stores. Some games would be cheaper at different places and they would give different values for trade ins. Now Gamestop just has one price and doesnt matter which store you go into. Thats all Im saying.

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Crabba
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 4:36:10 PM
Reply

Unfortunately I already heard about this a few days ago, and now Sony has really pissed me off!!

I thought they would've learned their lesson with Resistance 3 that at the very least it's obvious that their new PSN Pass will NOT sell any more copies of the game, but might very well get the exact OPPOSITE effect!

Despite this they have now decided to put the pass on their no 1 franchise title, I feel very sorry for Naughty Dog! I doubt they even had a choice in the matter...

Like is obvious with my avatar, I'm a HUGE Uncharted fan, and I would LOVE to support Naughty Dog for making this game, but Sony has chosen to twist my arm and now forced me not to buy this game!

I still own both Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves, I have never even tried the multiplayer portion of U2, but I WILL NOT support this PSN Pass garbage behavior!! I will now have to rent or trade U3 instead to play it, and get it used somewhere down the line, if nothing else to make my 2c point.

Sorry Naughty Dog, you really would have deserved my money. If you change your mind, I'll buy it new again, even if I still own the game by then... but nah that's not gonna happen...

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:36:50 PM

hahaha, you're a huge uncharted fan so you'll pass on uncharted 3. the reason being that theres an online pass to go along with multiplayer gaming for uncharted 3. the online pass that is included in ever new copy of uncharted 3 which HUGE fans of the series will buy new anyway. I want to thank you on passing on uncharted 3. saves me the trouble of playing guys like you online so its a better online experience for me.

If that $10 online pass, which comes free with every new copy of the game, is such a problem then youre just out of real problems to think about then. All you have to do is shop around or wait for a sale. hell, i already know i'm getting uncharted 3 new from kmart because they'll probably have a $20 gaming coupon with it. probably the same thing with batman and battlefield 3. the only reason that i'm putting down money at gamestop is to get preorder bonuses. Then i'll return the copy of the game and buy it at kmart for a much better deal.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 7:13:22 PM

It's no use JohnLD. His comments ooz the "gimmegimme! I'm entitled" mentalty which doesn't surprise me given his past comments and previous encounters.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:41:59 PM

Crabba, they won't miss you. You aren't really promoting the industry to begin with.

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Crabba
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:57:23 PM

johnld you apparently didn't read my post, because if you did you would have realized you wouldn't have had the pain/pleasure of playing with me online anyway since I don't care about the multiplayer aspect of the game.

I also never said I'll pass on U3, I'll definitely still get it because I'm sure it's going to be one of the best games ever on the PS3, I said I'll just rent it or get it used instead.

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Crabba
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 6:02:12 PM

To Jawknee and Underdog, well you may or may not like me or my arguments (and I don't really have a reason to care one way or the other), but my point remains:

The PSN Pass is more than likely NOT going to sell any more copies for Naughty Dog, but probably the exact opposite. Let me give you an example to think about: You would have bought the game new either way (with or without the pass). I (and others like me) would have LOVED to buy the game new, but will not because of the Pass, that means Sony & Naughty Dog are already -1 right there.

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Underdog15
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 10:46:15 AM

Crabba
When did I ever say I didn't like you? I think you're an excellent member to have on this site. Even if I don't agree with everything you say on this particular topic, you've always been relatively respectful and civil.

Can't ask for more than that.

As for my response, I responded to your post near the top. I hope that makes it a little more clear what I'm trying to say. I'm not attack you or the fact that people buy used games. I'm actually ok with that. My issue is in the used sales model in the industry. I also don't think passes are a big deal. And lastly, I cannot accept used games as the same thing as used cars/books/etc. I explain that near the top.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/6/2011 10:46:41 AM

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Crabba
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 4:36:20 PM

Thanks Underdog for the more civil tone, appreciate it. I have responded with a more lengthy reply in the top section as well, and won't regurgitate everything again here.

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johnld
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 6:28:37 PM
Reply

there is one main thing that this online pass does that i love. it weeds out people. if people wont buy the game because they feel like they're not supporting the online pass, or fail to understand simple logic, or even misplaced sense of entitlement, then that results in a much better online experience for me. since you're not buying the game, i dont have to play with any of those people. the online pass kinda balanced out all those whiny kids that bought ps3s when the price dropped.

anyway, i'm not saying people should burn in hell if they buy used games. i also dont condone it. people have their own reasons no matter how valid or retarded they are. i'm just saying that if you plan to buy a used game, you should know what you're getting yourself into. dont complain about a lack of an online pass/multiplayer access when you decide to buy a used game. That fault falls solely on you. if you really want to buy a game but cant afford the full price of $60 then dont buy it. wait until theres a sale. if you cant wait, thats your fault too. as for those people who buy a game knowing that they'll sell it anyway, i have no sympathy for you at all. just borrow it, play the single player and move on like you always do.

frankly, i applaud sony, ea, or whoever is doing their online passes because we dont lose anything for buying their games new. its going to force used game retailers to lower their prices. besides, if you buy a used copy, why should developers like naughty dog cater to you guys. you're not their customers so why should they care what you think. you guys can whine all you want but they're still giving us, the people who actually support them, top quality work. i really have no problem with people buying used games, my problem is the people who buy them and complain about crap that they feel entitled to have but didnt do anything to earn it. "developers already got paid from the first customer", yes they did. but you, the second customer practically stole from the developers because you didnt pay them to get their game. you paid someone however much a used game cost to log a game in their system and put them on the shelf. i see gamestop do that all the time. they scan it then put it straight on the shelf. does that work really justify the 55 bucks at most that you buy that game used for?

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:43:04 PM

*slow clap with head nodding*

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Lairfan
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 9:12:55 PM
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Wow, so a lot of people aren't buying Uncharted 3 new? What the hell's wrong with you?!

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Underdog15
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 10:43:17 PM

lol

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Jawknee
Tuesday, October 04, 2011 @ 11:42:36 PM
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To all you complaining about this, I won't begrudge you buying used games, but please...for the sake of intellectual honesty, do not pretend you aren't hurting the industry.

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Fane1024
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 4:49:43 AM

Jawknee,

In practical terms, what's the difference to ND between 2 people buying U3 new at $30 each (i.e., GH prices), which you explicitly condone, versus one person buying it new at $60, trading it, then someone else buying it used?

If anything, it saves them the cost of producing and shipping the second unit.

p.s. I'm mostly with you guys on this issue. I just don't see used game sales as 100% evil.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 9:05:10 AM

I don't think Jawknee does either, Fane. My post a couple spots higher I think demonstrates that.

It's more of a structural inadequacy that ultimately leaves publishers and consumers victim to the used sales corporations. The sad part is, consumers think they're actually getting good deals....

I believe (and I'm sure Jawk agrees) that consumers -need- to have options available to them. So used sales, in and of themselves, are not bad at all. In fact, it's good for consumers to have options. However, typically speaking, a frugal investment should, theoretically, result in an inferior product. It's how consumerism works.

Consumerism also doesn't negatively affect the industry that distributes product, either. Things of physical nature, like cars, are completely different. Same with books! Even though a car company doesn't see money from a used car sale, for as long as that car is alive, they will make money off repairs and parts. They own most of the "competition" non-main brand companies anyways!!!

Similarly, with books, how often do new editions of text books come out? Every two years? It's not like other companies in physical goods don't also have counter measures to making no money on used markets. No one boycotts text books because they continue to have new editions with nearly no new information, just reorganized.

The current model for games allows multi-billions of dollars to be generated in used sales, and publishers can't recoup even a single percentage of that. Just as car companies will continue to sell parts for repairs, and book companies will release newer editions, games need to do something to counter used sales.

I just believe 2 things in short to end:
1) We should support the industries we are investing our time into. and
2) the current used sales model needs to be changed to benefit consumers and publishers better.

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Fane1024
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 12:40:09 AM

Underdog (if you read this),

I fully agree with #1, but I don't think #2 is necessary (beneficial, perhaps). I also support the practice of online passes as a legitimate (and minimally intrusive) hedge against used game sales.

Do you agree with my contention (explained in detail previously) that the existence of the used game market actually drives new game sales (not to mention the reduction of prices over time), perhaps more than it actually hurts new game sales?



Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/6/2011 12:42:41 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 10:53:35 AM

It's far too hard to know, Fane. At least for me. Currently, the used game sales do drive new game sales to an extent. But I'm not sure what that extent is. At least, I couldn't find any stat that shows trade in dollars being spent on new releases vs. another used.

The other thing we don't know is what the landscape would look like if used game sales simply didn't exist. (Like with an all digital model... which I also don't want as reduced new prices likely wouldn't drop as quickly)

Anyways, my issue isn't that a used game market exists. I just think it's massive enough that I wish less money went to Gamestop shareholders and owners and more went to future development. Billions upon billions of dollars per year is nothing to sneeze at. Even 10% of that went back into the industry, I believe we'd see more employment for developers and high quality.

But don't think I still think (like I used to) that used sales should die... consumers need options, too.

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Chamoru_Warrior
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:20:36 PM
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well ladies and gents take advantage of that Subway promo version while we have it!

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Chamoru_Warrior
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:23:14 PM
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The thing is, U3 is mandatory for like 99% PS3 owners so you already know it's gonna be a day one buy and thus acquired online pass by default (if there is one). it'll sell well and many many places will have midnight launches.

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Chamoru_Warrior
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:23:20 PM
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The thing is, U3 is mandatory for like 99% PS3 owners so you already know it's gonna be a day one buy and thus acquired online pass by default (if there is one). it'll sell well and many many places will have midnight launches.

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Chamoru_Warrior
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:23:59 PM
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whoops...damn it lagged for a sec and I accidentally pressed twice.

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Chamoru_Warrior
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 5:29:34 PM
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yikes. just the mere fact that crabba hasn't even tried the mp portion of Uncharted 2 shows he's not a true diehard uncharted fan. one of the biggest draws of for majority of uncharted fans is the multiplayer! it's what keeps everyone playing long loooooooooong after they've platinumed the game. in fact, there are many don't even touch the campaign before they play mp because they are so eager to dive in and level up online. this is well exemplified by how many people worldwide are scrambling like mad to get their hands on the Subway promo version. they really don't care if it might spoil some visual surprises of the full game. They just want U3 mp and want it now! lol

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Crabba
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 @ 6:09:03 PM

Because I don't like multiplayer, I'm not a fan?

That's just sad. You do know that the original game didn't even have multiplayer right?

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BikerSaint
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 4:08:00 AM

Chamoru_Warrior, I beg to differ with that comment.

I don't have to play ANY MP to be a true die-hard fan of a game(unless of course it's a "MP only" game)

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BikerSaint
Thursday, October 06, 2011 @ 4:17:27 AM

Oh, and by the way,
MP has only become popular for the last 2 gaming generations.(well, 3 if you really count in the the Dreamcast's on-line too).

And at almost 59 in another few weeks, I've been playing a whole hell of a lot longer than MP's been out, way, way, back since the beginning of video games themselves.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/6/2011 4:18:37 AM

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Gravelight
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 4:41:34 AM
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OMG! Now this really p's me off with great extent. It worked fine for years to just play online without having to pay extra, what's the big deal now? Online Passes are completely stupid and it's only there because someone isn't making enough money on the games alone. Shame, shame, shame on them!

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