It's Time For The Inevitable GT5 vs. Forza 4 Debate
Gran Turismo 5We say Gran Turismo 5 is one of the best games out there. It tied with Heavy Rain for our Game of the Year 2010 award. And for further clarification and explanation, we explained our selection and love of GT5.
We're fairly convinced it was better than Forza 3. But Forza 4 is here now, and unsurprisingly, it's pulling down super high review scores. Therefore, you can expect the inevitable: the comparisons between Turn 10's latest and Polyphony Digital's gem from late last year. No, we're not going to proclaim the continued greatness of GT5 in the face of this new competition; we haven't played Forza 4. But it'll be interesting to see how the racing buffs respond, and what the hardcore driving aficionados will conclude.
When it comes to full-scale simulation, you can always expect heated debates. That's because those who play such games are die-hard lovers of the genre in question, and they're awfully passionate about it. They'll defend their choice tooth and nail, and you can anticipate plenty of highly detailed and immensely emotional debates. But as we've often said in the past, true-blue simulators are exceedingly difficult to judge, especially if the critic reviewing the game knows little about the sport. If the game goes for realism, how can non-followers correctly analyze...?
But either way, we're just trying to prepare you: the debates and arguments will come. And the thing is, GT6 is a long ways off...
Tags: gt5, gran turismo 5, forza, forza 4, polyphony digital, turn 10
10/10/2011 9:26:22 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (112 posts)
5TAY3R
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 4:35:28 AM
10 up, 1 down
Jawknee
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 9:53:28 PM
Reply
22 up, 15 down
Deleted User
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:02:53 PM
17 up, 4 down
Jawknee
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:40:58 PM
Hey, nice try though.
17 up, 5 down
StangMan80
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:45:06 PM
13 up, 4 down
Nas Is Like
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 12:35:41 AM
Just because you say it, that doesn't quite make it so.
6 up, 9 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:24:42 AM
But as is the case with CoD... sure, quality doesn't always win, however, "fun" often does. Granted, much of CoD's fun factor is the sheer number of people that also play it.
However, I think for the -masses-, and not the hardcore racing fans, Forza seems to be more fun because of the arcade style of play. The graphics might not be as good, it might not sound as good, and it might not be as realistic...
But since when have most gamers or critics known what the heck they are looking at? All they care about is if THEY find it fun... nevermind who it is meant for or which one has the best quality.
Edit: Based on what I did play, I can totally tell that GT5 is of better quality to any past Forza. Haven't seen the new Forza, though.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/11/2011 8:28:17 AM
1 up, 1 down
Kevin555
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:58:52 AM
Out of curiosity though, have you played Forza 4 yourself? Just asking because low res Youtube videos & reviews that are evidently biased because of high scores usually aren't the best ways to base your opinion of something on. If you played it & hated it, fair enough, i'll let you off.
& whats wrong with Xbox fans crowing about Forza when PS3 fans do the same for GT?
I'd start brushing your teeth champ, you're beginning to smell like one of those fanboy trolls. & that really isn't healthy.
3 up, 3 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:47:39 AM
Are you talking to me? I'm the only one that had anything even slightly long enough to be a "rant"...
1 up, 1 down
maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:44:14 AM
Go visit GTPlanet (that's Gran Turismo Planet) and you'll see the Forza fans lurking around the GT boards as if they are some virtual predator ready to pounce on anything GT5 does.
It's embarrassing, really.
Yes, I have tried Forza 4, and while it's a marked improvement over Forza 3, when it comes to driving, it is still behind GT5 in on the road feel and doesn't accurately translate the true power of a vehicle such as the Corvette ZR1.
There is a reason the Gran Turismo turns video game players into real life race car drivers with GT Academy. If that isn't enough for you, go watch some footage of Kaz himself driving and winning his class at the famed 24hrs at Nurburgring.
If I were you, I would educate yourself on the lengths Kaz and PD go to ensure that Gran Turismo lives up to it's tagline - The Real Driving Simulator.
4 up, 3 down
AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:09:41 AM
I think he's referring to Jawknee.
Hahaha Jawknee, everybody has a different taste of games.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 10/11/2011 11:19:20 AM
2 up, 0 down
FM23
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 9:55:41 PM
Reply
Last edited by FM23 on 10/10/2011 9:58:58 PM
5 up, 5 down
NoSmokingBandit
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:13:20 PM
Reply
*I know there are a handful on pc, but none with a good campaign. GTR-E is great, but theres no real feeling of progress or major accomplishment.
2 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:15:35 AM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:19:12 PM
Reply
Reviews of games have recently be the subject of much discussion, and to be perfectly frank, I don't trust many review sites further than I can comfortably spit a dead rat. I sure as heck am not going to take review scores at face value.
Forza4 appears to be a great game that aspires to be as good as GT. It's rather flattering that Forza strives to match or exceed the quality of GT5, since GT5 (and GT4 before it) set the mark. However, with the upcoming update to GT5, I don't see Forza exceeding GT5 in any meaningful manner. That's not to say it's rubbish or anything, but really, we're kind of getting to the point where you have two very, very good racing games that have slightly different areas of focus in what they do. They, how do you choose between them? Do you need to? They are console exclusives, so perhaps we should simply acknowledge that Forza 4 is a great racer, as is GT5, and with the exception of really unbalanced fans of either console, does it really matter? If it's too close to call, why call it?
18 up, 3 down
Qubex
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 12:44:11 AM
Watching the handling and some crashes, I thought... not bad... looked pretty solid and I am sure the XBox crowd will enjoy it.
I am with you on the GT5 update. I think this will bump GT5 up again a fair amount and give it a new lick of paint so to speak. Simulation wise, from what I have been exposed to it; GT5 is rather good, especially with a wheel. I would have to play both Forza 4 and GT5 with a wheel to really be able to judge how they compare, but to people who have both consoles, I am sure they can tell us if they invest in Forza 4.
Anyway, from what I have seen video wise, visually Forza 4 looks good, can't complain there... but GT5 tops the cars with its premium set of car models I would have say.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
Last edited by Qubex on 10/11/2011 12:44:40 AM
2 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 5:46:11 AM
then how can you say no if you have not?
i think the best answer to which is better depends on what one wants.
if they want a sim racer thats actually fun and has other sides to it then just track racing, like the whole top gear side, the car vistas mode, the pin bowling fun on the top gear test track.
then forza would be better.
though if your looking for stale bland sim then obviously GT5 is better.
the clown, or the scientist.
the day turn 10 do a better sim then PD is the day the man moves to the sun!
but then that said, the day PD do a more fun game then turn 10 is also the day man moves to the sun!
for me forza will always be better because its actually a fun game!
its what GT 5 should of been!
its added so many features on the sim side that GT STILL does not have!
not to mention it has the light hearted fun side, when you dont want to sit there and race 100% perfectly, for when you just want to have a little fun but still be en soaked in car culture no other game gives you.
GT is like Germany, where forza is like Italy.
German cars may be more reliable, technically better.
but which ones are more beautiful?
which ones put a bigger smile on your face?
thats right, the Italian cars!
and thats why to me forza will always be the better game!
because PD will never add the fun humours side to GT, it will always be the 100% hardcore sim racer, it will always be the stern humourless German.
3 up, 9 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:31:22 AM
1 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:12:03 AM
3 up, 0 down
jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:25:34 AM
2 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:49:12 AM
Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/11/2011 9:49:39 AM
3 up, 0 down
Gordo
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:34:04 PM
I bought it day 1 and played it for a month, got sick of the grinding and haven't played it since.
The menus were hideous... Trying to get into the events! You need to click event/cars/menu/garage/cars/menu/event.
Why couldn't we go into an event, see the cars that you need and buy one there and then. Don't know if they have fixed that with an update but this shows the lack of usability with its structure. It just permeated the whole game.
Then the choppy shadows, little damage, no interior views for standard cars and bouncing off the walls.
The driving was top notch but just imagine if it had all the rest as well???
So good simulation but pretty sterile and unfriendly.
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 10:07:08 AM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 10:07:08 AM
0 up, 0 down
playaplus
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:19:36 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
NoOneSpecial
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:22:55 PM
Reply
3 up, 0 down
Clamedeus
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:47:58 PM
I have an X1 Prototype but not the other ones.
Last edited by Clamedeus on 10/10/2011 10:48:23 PM
0 up, 0 down
Clamedeus
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:14:33 PM
0 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 5:53:46 AM
it will NEVER have better physics and graphics then GT, but thats the point!
its suppose to be a much more fun game, it was never ever going to compete with GT5, it was never suppose to.
its not as hardcore sim, turn 10 have said countless times they dont want to do a truly hardcore sim because theres a very small market for that.
they want to do a racing game that is sim, but no where near as sim as GT because not allot of people enjoy that.
they want to do a cross between NFS and GT, thats what forza 4 is suppose to be.
going into this expecting GT5 of course your going to be disappointed!
1 up, 5 down
Hynad
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:52:11 AM
That must be why Forza is selling more than Gran Turismo, right?
...wait.
1 up, 1 down
Clamedeus
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 7:01:16 AM
Everyone has a different way of having fun, there will always be people out there who enjoy hardcore racing sims. Just because you don't, doesn't mean there isn't.
0 up, 0 down
Lotusflow3r
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:00:22 AM
GT5 is the only game of it's kind on the market, there are many racers that try to be the most fun....you know?
1 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:37:40 AM
i did not say thats what i think.
and of course GT is going to sell well, its freaking GT!
no matter how small or niche the genre is, its playstations best selling franchise so i dont think it takes a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion 5 would well well.
0 up, 2 down
maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:47:22 AM
Are you sure you are talking about Forza? Turn 10 claims to be the ultimate simulator, when clearly it's not.
3 up, 2 down
Dancemachine55
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:30:18 PM
Reply
Forza is a great game, has very stylish menus, lots of content, but only about half the cars of GT. Not only that, but a Volkswagon (forget which model) in Forza handles nothing like in reality.
GT, on the other hand, has cluttered menus and longer loading times, but heaps more content and realistic handling of the cars. My friend tried the same Volkswagon model in GT5 and said it handled much more realistically and in much the same way that reviewers said it would.
GT5 is better for complete authenticity and realism in racing games. It also offers night time racing and alternate weather races which just looks so incredibly pretty in 1080p, something Forza does not have.
However, Forza has Jeremy Clarkson narrating this time round, an Autovista mode that lets you check out certain supercars in incredible detail, AND has better environmental graphics compared to GT5. (The cars' graphics look the same between both)
Forza also has better representation of the Top Gear track in Forza 4, and the latest and greatest supercars and sports cars of 2010 and 2011 will all be in there.
As for the people debating which is better? GROW UP!!
Yes, both are very good racing games, but if you have a 360, buy Forza 4. If you have a PS3, buy GT5. If you have both, wait for both games to come down in price and get both for the price of one 6 months from now!!
Anyways, for the sake of argument, a car enthusiast from anywhere around the world (particularly Japan or Europe) will most likely go GT5. American car enthusiasts are most likely to go Forza 4 since it is newer, exclusive to 360 (The preferred NA console), has 2010 and 2011 supercars and sports cars that GT5 doesn't have on disc, AND has better representation of the Top Gear track along with Jeremy Clarkson lending his voice.
Hopefully the cars will handle more realistically than in Forza 3, otherwise it's just another flashy racing game with better content than car physics. (Car physics being the whole point of these racing simulators)
6 up, 2 down
Highlander
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:21:36 AM
2 up, 2 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:34:27 AM
From what I see from reviews, mini-games, drag events, and Jeremy's Clarkson's voice. I think it's not so much representation of the Top Gear track, but how they implemented the Top Gear series into the game.
0 up, 0 down
Dancemachine55
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:50:16 AM
You can race the little hatchback from the show on the Top Gear track and try to beat the best times celebrities tend to strive for on the show.
Not to mention drag races along the airstrip, mini-games, multiplayer events which I'm sure will be created for it, and so on.
I heard GT5 only had 2 or 3 types of races you can do on the Top Gear track and none of them are representative of how the track is used on the show.
It just seems Forza 4 is all about star power, pretty features and loads of content, while actual car physics and number of cars you can collect is significantly less than that of GT5.
Plus, with GT5 getting the big update including interior view for all cars and new 2010 and 2011 cars as DLC, hopefully this will be compared to Forza 4 and not the release version of GT5.
0 up, 2 down
___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 5:57:23 AM
GT does everything half a$$ed!
dammage half a$$ed!
cars half a$$ed! (how many cars are crappy ps2 models?)
tracks half a$$ed!
top gear implementation half a$$ed!
turn 10 bite off 10 things and do them pretty well.
PD bite off 1000 things and do them pretty averagely!
thats another reason why forza will always be better.
you will never see turn 10 using old last gen models in a next gen game!
2 up, 4 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:06:39 AM
Lol, I may have to agree with you at some of the points except for a few. For one, I really think that PD did try to do too much with their content and features. It was a bit of bad management and final decision it seems, which resulted in very long developmental times especially being a small development team like PD.
Other than that, tracks aren't really half-done, for a better word. I mean how are they exactly?The one thing that you also have to appreciate for a simulation game is that PD at least got the physics consistent, even on the standard cars.
And just because they did less things well, doesn't make it a better game, as that's very subjective. GT5 is probably the better simulator, and for sure the more advance game. On the other hand, FM4 is the one with less features, lesser physics, but the more complete game. I don't see how that can translate to which game is better. I'd say to just leave it by preference.
0 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:41:01 AM
i just wish M$ would let logitech release a update to make the G27 compatible with it!
only wheel that works with it is their cheap piece of sh*t, or a fanatec wheel cant remember which one but its over 600 bucks!
0 up, 1 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:33:00 AM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:36:20 PM
"I heard GT5 only had..."
So, you make a categorical statement about one game being better than another - which you've not played.
As for racing the little hatchback they use in the show, you can race any car you want around the top Gear track in time trial mode to see what your fastest lap time is. Any car in the GT library of cars, including lots of little hatchbacks. Oh, and BTW, the car used for the 'star in a reasonably priced car' segment is updated fairly regularly, I believe that there have been three different ones in the last 5 years or so.
Having Jeremy Clarkson's voice is net entirely a plus point. Don't get me wrong, I really like Jezza, but in a serious racing sim? Jezza is not entirely the most serious person involved with Top Gear, actually he may be the least serious. So if you're claiming to be a racing sim, why would you use Jeremy Clarkson? Ah, yes, the name value. One upping GT by having the 'big name' associated with the game.
I could see Clarkson working in the game if he was the voice that introduced each of the cars with an appropriate sardonic take on the el-cheapo models and effusive gushing about the V12 monsters. But Other than that? Nah.
2 up, 0 down
StangMan80
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:46:26 PM
Reply
6 up, 2 down
PasteNuggs
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 10:55:24 PM
Reply
3 up, 2 down
main_event05
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:03:24 PM
Reply
5 up, 1 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:30:48 AM
0 up, 0 down
sirbob6
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:04:18 PM
Reply
So the debate will simply wage on forever in a never ending war of claims, retorts, snarky comments, and insults.
Last edited by sirbob6 on 10/10/2011 11:04:44 PM
0 up, 0 down
StubbornScorpio
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:04:51 PM
Reply
The only reason anyone should debate is if they have both consoles. In that situation decide between the streamlined interface of Forza or the seeming infinite selection and variety of Gran Turismo.
Personally I'm on the GT side, but I'm not about to hark on Forza just because it's on the other system (I haven't even played it extensively to fairly judge it).
2 up, 0 down
Dancemachine55
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:56:01 AM
While I love GT5, all my friends have 360's, so naturally I play Forza with them and try to do as much in that game as possible so my gamerscore doesn't look so woefully low when compared to theirs.
Online multiplayer has kinda ruined this generation of gaming for me. I've always loved a good story or exploring a world on my own. Online trophies and multiplayer trophies just annoy me now, especially if there is no one online like in any Rock band or Guitar Hero games. Almost impossible to find people online on old PS3 games.
1 up, 1 down
StubbornScorpio
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:31:35 AM
Back on topic, I think multiplayer and being able to play with friends are huge factors in deciding which game would be better for the player. Obviously it would be nice to choose the game YOU want most, but if most of your friends have the other title, pressure can get the best of us.
0 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:36:49 AM
*edit
Also, there is always people, and a lot, online in GT5, so no worries there. In terms of your personal friends though, I don't know about that. Anyway, for sure, what your friends have or not is one of the important decision factor for some.
Last edited by daus26 on 10/11/2011 11:39:38 AM
1 up, 0 down
playaplus
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:07:12 PM
Reply
def more arcade style type series if commpared to GT
1 up, 0 down
Clamedeus
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:18:16 PM
Reply
Edit: Omg! The Red Bull X2012 S. Vettel is leaps and bounds more of a monster than the Prototype. Lol Geez what an adrenaline rush. :D!
Last edited by Clamedeus on 10/10/2011 11:32:16 PM
3 up, 0 down
Clamedeus
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 3:06:46 AM
Last edited by Clamedeus on 10/11/2011 3:37:49 AM
0 up, 0 down
Crabba
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:20:22 PM
Reply
Hopefully the final game looks better than that but I wouldn't bet on it...
2 up, 0 down
PSTan
Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 11:37:26 PM
Reply
It's all about the gameplay. The game that truly feels like a real car race takes the cake. I haven't played either game, but I do plan to make a comparison at some point. However, I've been a GT fan since the beginning (GT1 being the reason I bought a PS1). I can't say I'm biased against Forza, cuz F3 was really good.
It's the gameplay that matters. That's why they're called simulators. They try to get as close to the real thing as possible.
Gameplay.
0 up, 0 down
Wraith
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:07:34 AM
1 up, 0 down
PSTan
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 7:42:13 PM
I know, I'm disappointing. GT5 was my most anticipated game of 2010, but I just didn't have time to get it and sink hours into it. I'm getting it for sure now because of spec 2.0 and the price drop. And maybe even a wheel setup.
0 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:25:18 AM
Reply
I don't like to believe I'm bias, but out of all the reviews I've read, there wasn't one thing that stood out, that would make the game score as high as it did, or rather "perfect" according to some reviewers. There was mentioned of improved graphics, improved physics, like 5 new tracks, Top Gear, Autovista, and a revamped Career mode. Out of all those, the edge FM would have over GT5 are probably just the Top Gear implementation, Autovista, and career mode. Besides the career mode, unless you really care that much about Top Gear and Autovista, there's not much to Fm4. The rest of the features like livery editor and such are already present in FM3, so comparison can't be that much different.
So if we're talking about the game that have made a much more breakthrough and features in simulation racing on consoles, it would have to be GT5. Why? Well, one thing that seems to be overlooked imo is that GT5 is the first game in console to be able to do real-time 24 hour time change, with interchangeable weather. If you haven't, please try to race at night, in the rain, with a premium car in cockpit view and high beams on. Then watch how the lighting, weather, car handling, and wetness of the track, dynamically change. In terms of features, GT5 has track creator, Rally (Ice/Dirt), Nascar, F1, B-Spec, etc. HOWEVER, and admittingly, some of these features weren't really featured and executed at its best. Consider that, with the short-coming A-Spec and the standard/premium dilemma, I guess many critics were rather disappointed by it.
So in all fairness, FM4 just seems more "complete" than GT5 was when it was released by many critics. By that I mean the things they try to implement into the game, e.g. Top Gear, seems more well executed. GT5 tried to do many more things, but most aren't executed to its potential. That's probably the biggest factor with all this. If we're basing it on the gameplay/features and technological breakthrough, GT5 would clearly still have the edge by paper/stats.
Forza still have ways to go if they want to match GT5's best aspects. Just imagine a GT game with all the features it has, but implemented to a more deeper career, events, and tracks.
- Imagine weather, time change for all tracks. - More F1, Nascar, and Rally Events
- More track creator themes, and customization features.
- All premium cars, although I don't mind the standards one bit. Critics and casuals are knocking GT really bad for this, and I think it's rather silly.
FM's best aspects over GT5? I'd say livery editor/customization, community features (e.g. car auctions), and to many people... car selection. There are also small things like mini-games, in-depth car review with Jeremy Clarkson and other stuff. In the end, it comes to preference as you can see, they have advantages at different points, and right now it's a matter of which you'll rather have.
I tried my best to be fair, and if it doesn't seem so, I apologize in advance. I would love to get FM4 if I could. Too bad I won't be able to get online if I did.
2 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:28:14 AM
I didn't realize it would be that long till I hit submit. Wish there was a preview button. I swear though, it took only like 3-4 minutes to type all that in one go. I thought it'd be shorter.
Last edited by daus26 on 10/11/2011 1:28:47 AM
0 up, 0 down
Snaaaake
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 7:48:18 AM
Highlander usually put comment as long or longer and we enjoy reading 'em.
1 up, 0 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:54:57 AM
0 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:51:27 AM
Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/11/2011 9:51:44 AM
0 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:00:23 AM
I believe why Forza 4 traditionally scores better than GT5 is because Turn has mastered how to make a candy apple.
They put all the good stuff out right away, and after a few bites, all that's left is an apple. An apple is good, but it's nowhere near as sweet as the caramel on the surface.
As you put it, GT5 offers more to do than any other race title out there. That's not even disputable. Sure, the standard car issue is not favorable for a lot of people, but once you get past the graphical issue, the cars are as enjoyable to drive as the premiums.
I have said this before, but Forza Motorsports is more on the video game side of things, and Gran Turismo is more of a traditional simulator. After playing the Forza 4 demo in full simulation mode, that much is certain due to all the grip that Ferrari I used had, yet when you use the same car in GT5, the visceral power is felt that the Italian supercar possesses.
Yes, GT5 as game isn't perfect, but the actual driving is.
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:41:34 PM
1 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:51:15 PM
0 up, 0 down
Maruf
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:30:41 AM
Reply
I think Forza 4 is a more complete game from what I've seen compared to GT5. If we compare lap times, we'll see that forza 4 lap times are closer to reality that GT5. But the car behavior seems more authentic on GT5. So I think that GT5 has a better car simulation system but the cars are not as true to their real world counterparts as they could be.
But this authentic system is no good for fast driving from the birds eye view. You need to be in the in car view to really push a car to its limit because this is the best view where you can really feel the moment to moment weight distribution and balance changes and grip levels which really gives a rich and entertaining driving experience with many assists of if not all. So, standard cars are no good for fast driving to me.
Another thing is the controller with which I mostly play racing games though I'm really used to it. The 360 controller is the best controller ever made imo. The left analog stick is right there under my thumb when just naturally holding the controller whereas on the ps3 controller i have to move my thumb down and bend it a little. Sorry, but that just doesn't sit well with me. In close hard fought races my finger keeps slipping off the ps3 controller stick.
Oh how I wish GT5 was a more consistent game; firstly with all car having proper interiors, not those stupid dark ones, secondly having more accurate car performance. After all this I don't even want to mention the inconsistencies with the graphics.
Ooops, I did. Didn't I? wait, that's not a question.
BTW, I also like Shift 2 with certain mods, Sports Cars GT, rFactor, GTR2, NFSU2, etc.
1 up, 5 down
daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:40:19 AM
For one example, have you seen the Top Gear competition on the Seasonal Events? Lap times were way close. How can you say FM4 have better track representations and lap-time just like that??
2 up, 1 down
Gordo
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 2:47:59 AM
If you were really serious you would have a wheel...
The only way to play!
5 up, 0 down
Maruf
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:23:23 AM
I don't care about my cred; I know what I know and what I like. There are many PC sim player who will give not much cred to even GT5 and go as far as calling Forza an arcade racer. I'll admit there are many better simmers that me, so what. I ain't barichello leading a virtual championship or have the skills of Odonez and I don't mind nor care.
I know how both controller and steering works and i can work them both. Steering department is ok, great in fact. But there are still many who play these games with controllers and I have found that even they can be fun if the game is developed to make good use of the controller as well. Its surprising how well some people can control the throttle with TC off with a controller.
Last edited by Maruf on 10/11/2011 6:25:57 AM
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daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:50:53 AM
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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:09:31 AM
Being such a hardcore racer, I'm not sure why you're throwing out single statistics for what would have to be single vehicle setups.
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maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:08:19 AM
Considering that PD has a real world race car driver in it's stable (Kaz himself) I disagree with you.
No one from Turn 10 has ever driven a race car professionally. That's valuable experience that cannot be faked.
Plus, you SHOULD know that track times are determined by not only car set ups, ambient factors such as temperature greatly effect these aforementioned lap times. The greatest contributor is the driver himself, so it's impossible to gauge lap times when the main variable in this discussion is a flawed human being.
I can tell you first hand that the grip levels in Forza 4 are not accurate as GT5's. Take a stock Corvette ZR1 from both games, turn off the assists, and take it to a track. You'll notice a stark difference, I promise you. Yes, in case you are wondering, I have driven a ZR1 on multiple occasions.
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Lawless SXE
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 4:19:29 AM
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And Forza is definitely more arcade-y, in execution, if not in physics (can't tell, haven't played it). I mean, the Top Gear integration, rewind, livery customisation... GT doesn't mess around with that, it's all about the simulation experience. And that's all I got to say about that!
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daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 8:52:29 AM
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The Iron Jedi
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 5:34:34 AM
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My mates keep wanting me to get an XBOX for Forza, and it's tempting, but then I realise how much I hate the whole system. MS offer no content EXCEPT for Forza that interests me. I've got just on 100 PS3 games (Disc and Download), so I don't see much point in buying a console to play one title.
The Spec 2.0 update has just finished downloading on my PS3 now, so I wonder what difference it will bring :)
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saini
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 5:44:15 AM
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___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:00:49 AM
if you want a cheap but good wheel the logitech driving force GT is pretty good.
if you can spend a little more get a G25, a little more a G27, i personally prefer the fanatec GT3 RS same price as the G27.
though if your bill gates and want the best wheel then it has to be the thrustmaster specifically made for GT5!
though, it really is only priced for bill gates!
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___________
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:04:19 AM
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go into forza looking for GT on 360 and your going to be massivley disappointed!
as i said several times above, forza has NEVER suppose to be as hardcore sim as GT!
turn 10 has always set out to bring the fun aspect of NFS to the racing style of GT, and thats exactly what they have done!
if you want a hardcore racing sim you cant beat GT5!
if you want something a little less hardcore but still want a sim, and want something with a sh*t load more character and fun then you cant beat forza!
i really love the top gear addition, i watch the show every day so its really cool being able to drive the reasonably priced car the kia cee'd and try beat some records.
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daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:28:57 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q7X5vatYBg
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Excelsior1
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:14:41 AM
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as for the argument that most reviewers are not qualified to judge the game...well, i would remind people that up until gt5 the past gt all have 90 plus metacritic scores. gt5 has an 84 average. critics seemed to like the games just fine until gt5 so i have a little trouble accepting that all the sudden they were hating on a gt game becuase of its simulation aspects. it's always been a simualtion based racer. again, the premium/non premium split seems to be an issue in generating some of the reviewer negativity. i can understand why the reviews were mixed for this one particular gt game. it's hard not to notice the uneven presentation. meaning it looks great in some sections but in many others not as great.
i can't remember what psxextreme member(maybe fm23) desrcibed gt5 as a messy masterpiece but i thought that was spot on despcription. it's still a very solid game, and most importantly the racing is very good.
i have not played any forza game but i did see forza 4 at my cousin's house. i hate to use the term graphics whore but that's me so one of the first things i investigated about forza 4's graphics were the shadows. they are clean and crisp unlike the 8 bit shadows we got in gt5. overall i thought forza 4 looked very good. i can't comment on its galeplay since i have not played it.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 10/11/2011 10:15:38 AM
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Arvis
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:16:24 AM
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-Arvis
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main_event05
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 1:22:32 AM
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DemonNeno
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:29:52 AM
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GT5 - 1 F4 - 0
The biggest problem people encounter with GT5 is graphical achievements. This, however, is something that SHOULDN'T stick out. Most race tracks aren't beside mountains, through canynons of vast and jaw dropping colors. Shadows are GT5's greatest graphical downfall. Forza takes a different approach. Colors are alive, exaggerated.
Draw
Physics, which should be the first priority on your simulation list, are hands down all about GT5. Forza has some unreal turn-in speeds, stability and overall "feel" to their vehicles. GT5 has a far more sensitive approach. You realize how much very little steer-correction does in triple digits, as it should, cars massively under/over steer with poor turn-in speeds. The difference in the vehicle's center of gravity during turn-in is also incredibly different. Forza is FAR more forgiving. If you turn in hard in GT5 (hard implying you didn't brake enough during the straight coming to the turn), and your vehicle is nose heavy, the car reacts as it should - Loose out back. Forza doesn't necessarily use this recipe.
I can go on and on. To me, the choice has been clear for my off-season racing itch. GT5. Although I haven't gotten my hands on the GT update or the lastest Forza, it seems both carry along much of the same dynamics they had. Not actual in-game dynamics, but the actual dynamics that make both games what they are and once again have seperated the gap between what both games are intended to achieve.
I wouldn't be disgusted playing a Forza game, but if I had the choice, I would most definitely pick up GT5 over it. End of the world? Nope! I own a PS3 and therefore have the option that fits my car-nut taste the best! :)
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daus26
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:42:32 AM
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DemonNeno
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 12:02:04 PM
I understand that many are underwhelmed by GT5's graphics. It's understandable. GT5 was based on realism. When you're at a race track, the last thing that really draws you in is your environment. It's not this brilliantly lit world of vast, potent, colors. Much like GT5. Forza is far more exaggerated and follows a consistant "eye-candy" appeal to the realm around you. Totally different leagues.
I still think the shadows are a massive drawback for realism in GT5. Personally, I wish I could just turn them off. I know, I know... It's kind of stupid to get hung up on shadows, but they really do stick out like a sore thumb.
At the end of the day, though, I'll take GT5 anyday of the week. Far superior in the most important aspect; Realism.
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JackDillinger89
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:50:36 AM
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But disappointingly Forza still dont have night racing and weather something i valued in GT5. But this whole "kaz vision" thing i understand he wants perfection but regardless its ONLY a game and developing a game for almost a decade and still not reaching your goal like FM23 you have a messy masterpiece. GT5 still delivers but not what everybody expected. Forza isnt perfect neither but in a fimeframe les than GT5 dev cycle still delivered a accessible racer that pleased car nuts and its fanbase.
Last edited by JackDillinger89 on 10/11/2011 11:54:05 AM
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maxpontiac
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 1:55:04 PM
You can't pretend GT5 doesn't have Muscle cars when even in Standard form nearly every iconic muscle car is there. Up to Forza 4's release, GT5's list was head and shoulders above everyone else.
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sha4dowknight05
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:42:39 PM
This is a good topic to discuss, but I really do find myself geared towards the forza side. I mean after all it's simply an amazing racing game that deserves the Simulation Racing KING.
Last edited by sha4dowknight05 on 10/11/2011 6:43:31 PM
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Clamedeus
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:45:22 PM
As everyone else has said it's more Arcade style than what GT5 is. Which I don't get how you can compare the two.
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enjoi
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:52:08 AM
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sha4dowknight05
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 2:02:43 PM
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GT5 to me isn't even close to comparing with forza!
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Highlander
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 2:28:54 PM
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Forza 4 has better presentation and is more fun to play as a game and has more eye candy, but GT5 has more realistic physics and visuals, but is less slick and game-like.
So, in other words, no surprises there eh? Forza 4 is better than Forza 3, OK, I get that. But, from all the comments and reviews it seems that Forza4 is trying harder to be a game than a sim, and GT5 is trying harder to be a sim than a game. In which case they are not directly comparable, and it comes down to personal taste.
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sha4dowknight05
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 4:16:25 PM
I agree with you completely. Forza is more fun of a game since it has Xbox Live and the things you can do on there outweigh what you could possibly do on GT5.
GT5 is trying extremely hard to become the ultimate simulator and I have to say the only thing that keeps it down from being the realistic simulator is should be is damage, and customization.
Mainly damage since the damage in that game are piss-poor and unreal. I know you get damage unlocked at a later class, but really it doesn't so well there. Maybe they wanted the cars to shine instead of being destroyed???
Besides that and the online that is loses to forza the last thing I find very irritating about this game is the camera. OMG I hate it. It stays fixed behind your car and there is no way to change that.
The dashboard view is cool but that is only available on certain cars, while forza has for every single one of their cars. I would choose having 400 cars all having interior views then 1000 cars but only 250 of them have interior, any day.
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dkmrules
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:00:58 PM
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sha4dowknight05
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 6:38:53 PM
I know you can go in the dashboard and bumper but I am talking about behind the car which is the camera I am most comfortable playing in. To be honest the detail they put into the premium cars is amazing, but they left all the other cars in the dust. I know time was a problem because you can't hop in 1500 cars all day and take pictures to recreate them all, so I don't blame them 100% since these guys are perfectionists. I liked forza since the interior looks amazing and every single car has one. I mean it's good enough right??? GT5 interior(premium cars) would be 10/10 and forza would be 8.5/10 not that bad behind but at least every car has it which GT5 fails at.
Last edited by sha4dowknight05 on 10/11/2011 6:44:09 PM
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Highlander
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 9:37:42 PM
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DemonNeno
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 10:44:25 PM
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dkmrules
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 @ 11:24:02 PM
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Clamedeus
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 12:59:44 AM
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daus26
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 3:14:03 AM
One of the decisions Kaz had to make was how detailed the premium cars were gonna be. They wanted them to be as perfect as possible and honest to their real-life counterpart. Their choice caused them lots of development time, which is why only a bit over 200 were made.
In Forza, they decided to go the general route on a lot of the cars. Yes, some of the cars may be accurate to an extent, but you'll also see that a lot of the cars are not representative of the real thing in terms of cockpit. I can't say this is a bad decision, cause I think it's actually reasonable.
Basically both games went different routes. Unless they went the same, or similar route, we can't compare them fairly quiet yet. When GT5 gets more "game-like" with all the flashes and customization, and Forza getting more realistic on their physics, as well as more features and advance technical achievements, then perhaps we'll be able to compare easier then.
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Highlander
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 3:32:12 AM
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sha4dowknight05
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 2:14:02 PM
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JackDillinger89
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 3:28:02 AM
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sha4dowknight05
Wednesday, October 12, 2011 @ 11:19:38 PM
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Deleted User []
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Monday, October 10, 2011 @ 9:45:58 PM