Borderlands Review
More Game Info (Print This Article)
Graphics:
7.0
Gameplay:
8.0
Sound:
8.3
Control:
8.4
Replay Value:
9.0
Online Gameplay:
8.5
Overall Rating: 8.2
Publisher:
2K Games
Developer:
Gearbox
Number Of Players:
1-2 (4 Online)
Genre:
FPS/RPG
Borderlands is one of those games I’ve had my eye on for most of 2009, just because the concept seemed somewhat original – take Grand Theft Auto and use a futuristic, post-apocalyptic alien setting with a zillion guns in a FPS format – and I thought it had plenty of promise. Arnold did his review earlier but while it caused a great deal of controversy, this here is what you would call a “second opinion review.” Therefore, I won’t approach it in the standard way; i.e., breaking each section down in the usual format. I’ll just voice my thoughts after playing for a good part of the day.
First of all, I’d like to address some of what other gamers claim to be 100% positives in this game, many of which were taken from the Comments section beneath our first review. For example, I knew after playing for only an hour or so that Borderlands would quickly appeal to those who enjoy the non-scripted, sandbox exploration style…and I’m going to be brutally honest, here- I really don’t like these people. They tend to come from the PC side of things, where we receive freedom as a substitute for story and character development; they’re entitled to their opinion, of course, but they’re really pushy in their beliefs. They have it in their head that if a game is scripted and has plot points and storytelling elements that it’s automatically inferior to games that just allow you to wander around and do whatever you want. It’s the “freedom and choice is always better than any story we can follow” theory, and not only is it ridiculous, it’s annoying. These people rarely read and I find them downright insufferable.
That being said, I can easily understand why they would love a game like this, as it’s exactly how I described it in the introduction. But while the freedom-lovers will claim that everything remains fresh and original in this fashion, I have to argue. How “original” is it when certain enemies just keep coming back in the same areas? How “fresh” is it to participate in loads of secondary missions that have no bearing on…well, anything? Developers always go overboard in the “choice” and “freedom” idea, which often leads to a player finally saying to himself, “okay, I’m bored with all these meaningless missions now, so how’s about finding some story?” This happened to me, although I will freely admit that the gameplay does keep you interested, and the role-playing elements attached to your character’s development are excellent. Really, it does feel a lot like an “outworld” version of Deus Ex, which is just fine by me.
Now, moving on to the pick-up-item issue: I know you can collect all the items in the immediate vicinity all at once, but that’s not really what I noticed. What I noticed above all else was that, perhaps surprisingly, I was spending more time hunting for loot than I was fighting enemies. It finally got tedious to open random boxes and snag items off the ground; those in support of the game will say it’s a joy to deal with all that loot and it never gets old. Well, I wouldn’t normally find it tedious, either, but it did get to the point where I was just sick of trying to pinpoint the exact spot on the ground to pick up an item. It was all the more annoying when I usually found it was something I didn’t need or didn’t want, and I normally adore treasure collecting. I’m not going to say it’s a major drawback or anything, but just because you can drag in a bunch of items at once in the immediate vicinity doesn’t really mean much in the long run.
As for the rest, I think it’s plenty solid. The game is fun, mostly smooth, and extremely well designed. At first, one might think there’s too much “barrenness” but I’ve always been a fan of atmospheric experiences, and that’s really what Borderlands is (even if I’m not the hugest fan of cel-shaded visuals). Even though there’s a large amount of space and a general feeling of freedom, you never feel lost or bored; there’s always something to do and somewhere to go. Better yet, we always get the benefit of a nicely crafted difficulty/challenge scale: the player is pushed and encouraged to use everything in his or her arsenal, but we never feel helpless, you know? We feel satisfactorily rewarded by conquering a particularly tough mission and saying to ourselves, “man, I’m glad I saved up and bought that gun; I would’ve been dead without it.” Or, “it’s a good thing I upped that stat more with my last level up!” I always get a charge out of things like this.
And being a big RPG fan at heart, I just love how the main character progresses. What I decidedly do not love, however, is how this concept trips over the line into the FPS action, which results in a bizarre problem that may not bother some people. But with all the advancements made in shooters thus far, we’re all used to things like head shots and bullets doing more damage depending on where they hit an individual. Yeah, back in the Wolfentein 3D days, that would seem like space-age technology but it isn’t anymore, and I just couldn’t shake the irritation that went along with the HP in combat- why, oh why should a head shot – more often than not – cause the exact same amount of damage as a leg shot? That just doesn’t seem right to me; I don’t care what the game is. Then there’s the collision detection problem Arnold noticed and all I’ll say is that it does exist in some capacity, but I believe he encountered it more than I did. But I most certainly shot at enemies when up close and personal with a gun that has 93% accuracy, and missed with three consecutive shots. Sorry, but that is wrong.
It just didn’t happen to me often enough where I’d say, “yeah, that’s a crippling problem, I don’t wanna play anymore.” And I know Arnold didn’t say that, either; I’m just clarifying my situation. Lastly, there’s no doubt in my mind that the sheer amount of upgrades, items, weapons, and skills available is downright mind-numbing and when you factor in the four very unique characters, the amount of longevity here is pretty freakin’ high. The online and multiplayer worked out just fine for me as well, and I completely understand how something like four-player co-op can be a blast. But about the 50 gajillion possible guns or something like that: let’s just all admit that during a normal play-through, any player will only see maybe a few hundred. Yes, it’s true that there are millions of possibilities, but we don’t fire “possibilities.” We fire guns. It’s wicked cool that we could all end up with entirely different weapons than our buddies, but I’m not going to say it’s the primary appeal of Borderlands.
No, the primary appeal lies in its original style and atmosphere. It’s not really my bag but the game is solid despite a few technical issues in the PS3 version (hitching in the frame rate, especially upon the deaths of some enemies), and the design is really outstanding. If you go in expecting Diablo crossed with an FPS, you’ll likely be satisfied, but given everything I noticed, I will not place Borderlands in the upper echelon of 2009 gems. It’s a good game; even a great game for some people, but I don’t care what the loyalists have to say…my opinion, and Arnold’s, stands as is.
10/29/2009 Ben Dutka
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Comments (121 posts)
___________
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:36:45 AM
hell give it 1/10 for all i care im still getting it day of release.
or will i?
according to game, its been set back to the end of november, if thats true insomniac and sony are going to get a very unpleasant phone call!
1 up, 3 down
Qubex
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:45:52 AM
Q!
"i am home"
Last edited by Qubex on 10/30/2009 2:46:15 AM
1 up, 2 down
djduke316
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:12:22 AM
3 up, 0 down
bigrailer19
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:02:33 PM
i found way more dif. puzzles in other games, its hardly something that should factor in how good the game is! the POP Sand of Time and Warrior Within had some pretty difficult puzzles in it just to mention!
2 up, 1 down
SnipeySnake
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 1:57:30 AM
0 up, 0 down
Ultimate_Balla
Thursday, October 29, 2009 @ 11:01:57 PM
Reply
Last edited by Ultimate_Balla on 10/29/2009 11:03:25 PM
2 up, 0 down
NoSmokingBandit
Thursday, October 29, 2009 @ 11:02:33 PM
Reply
I hope they fix it because i really want to play it, but right now i feel bad for spending $50 on this.
Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 10/29/2009 11:03:11 PM
3 up, 1 down
fundando
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 3:58:13 AM
This version still has issues that will hopefully be patched this morning.
psn fundando
0 up, 0 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:35:35 PM
3 up, 1 down
Geobaldi
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 1:37:38 AM
0 up, 0 down
NightHawk17
Thursday, October 29, 2009 @ 11:32:12 PM
Reply
1 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, October 29, 2009 @ 11:57:48 PM
Reply
All the same I appreciate you giving it a second opinion, you guys at PSXE (whether we agree with you or not) always give it 100% because you really didn't HAVE to spend your day re-reviewing this title today, but you felt the community wanted it so that's cool. Keep on keepin' on.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/29/2009 11:58:22 PM
5 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:36:07 AM
3 up, 0 down
fundando
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:01:09 AM
1 up, 4 down
SHADOW [Moderator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:09:37 AM
Reply
Here's my basic assumption on the game judging by what I've read, heard, seen, etc. If you are down with the basics of the game and you have a friend or set of friends to roll through the entire game with this could very well be your favorite game of the year. If you are looking for anything deeper your probably going to come away disappointed. For me this will probably be a pickup once it gets a price drop.
3 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:35:27 AM
It's really a severe mistake to assume the point increments mean nothing around here.
5 up, 2 down
SHADOW [Moderator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 3:59:28 AM
2 up, 2 down
Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:30:41 AM
10 up, 0 down
___________
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:33:20 AM
Reply
in fallout you really feel like your the character and you really feel like your talking to people you just met.
i loved the communication system where you had several lines to choose from, thats what i was expecting with borderlands.
but nope all you do is hit square select a mission, come back once its done hit square than x and theres your reward.
rinse and repeat.
theres no bonding with the characters, to me this is not a RPG, to me its a open world FPS.
what makes it a RPG?
what because it has a level up system?
almost every single game has that in one way or another.
i was really let down by borderlands, the art in the game is amazing, the enemies look so cool.
i turned the game on and besides all the fu**ups i was really happy and impressed till i did a few missions, than its true colors came out and sunk my battle ship.
O and not to mention, the fu***ng game corrupted my second save data last night.
yup, once was not enough, spending 8 hours on the game than having to start again was not enough.
i had to start a new game, spent 10 or so hours than have that one fu**up on me too.
kinda sad too, of the 3 years ive had my ps3, out of the 40+ games ive played on it NOT 1 has done this NOT one.
than borderlands comes across and does it not once, but TWICE!
sorry gearbox studios, but this will be the last game i buy from you ever again.
if you cant be fu**ed making sure your game works, why should i give you 110 bucks of my hard earned cash?
6 up, 1 down
Gabriel013
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:06:20 AM
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:21:24 PM
Borderlands on the other hand, is better described as a kind of "mmorpg light" - a "morpg" acutally. This is the closest to the "mmorpg-feeling" I've experienced on the PS3 - something I've missed a lot after converting from PC to PS. After playing MMOs for a few years you don't find anything strange about respawning mobs or quests being handed out by automates anymore. It's all about teaming up with friends, enter a dungeon, hack your way to the boss and (hopefully) encounter total chaos and multiple respawns before you finally nail the bastard. Then, of course, the loot. Oooh yes. What might this beast have dropped! Oh, the excitement...!
Oh, and on your way out again you will of course be chased by the mobs you slayed on your way in. Just do like the rest of us: Fire up the shields and run like hell. The slowest in the group will die. But then again he's used to that.
Oh the memories, the sweet MMORPG memories... When will they respawn on my ps3?
0 up, 0 down
___________
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:39:21 AM
Reply
just ordered mine off ebay and am interested to see what you think about it.
Last edited by ___________ on 10/30/2009 12:41:01 AM
0 up, 0 down
Sir Shak
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:41:20 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Sir Shak
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 1:45:30 AM
10 up, 1 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:44:27 PM
1 up, 0 down
Oxvial
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:45:30 AM
Reply
I can't believe it got a second review.
Last edited by Oxvial on 10/30/2009 12:50:38 AM
2 up, 3 down
GuernicaReborn
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:24:06 AM
1 up, 0 down
Frenchy17
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:12:39 AM
Reply
0 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:32:54 AM
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/30/2009 2:33:10 AM
2 up, 2 down
Qubex
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:47:54 AM
Q!
"i am home"
1 up, 0 down
Frenchy17
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:30:33 PM
0 up, 0 down
King James
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:44:57 AM
Reply
1 up, 2 down
fundando
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 3:59:04 AM
3 up, 1 down
fundando
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:05:21 AM
Reply
Read the review don't just look at the score.
4 up, 5 down
Diggity Dan
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 7:45:40 AM
In some ways I feel that assigning scores is sort of arbitrary. I like both the Beatles' White Album and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Is one a 9.5/10 and the other a 10/10? I dont know, I just know I like them. I can't really compare one album to the other either.
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - Frank Zappa
2 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:38:42 AM
The point is that few people bother to read much of anything and furthermore, the scores have become deeply ingrained in the industry. Publishers absolutely count on them, and so do game consumers. They most certainly serve a purpose, whether you like it or not.
5 up, 0 down
tes37
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 11:45:30 AM
1 up, 1 down
Fane1024
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:26:14 PM
You may have pulled those numbers out of your ***, but I'd say you got them about right. Maybe you should review albums. :D
0 up, 0 down
crapreviews
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:52:24 AM
Reply
If anyone who actually played the game and read his review, could easily tell he put no effort into the game at all or he would have seen a lot more than the BS he posted. Really shouldn't post what's missing from a game when you didnt even take time to see that some of the things you said were missing were actually there.
Oh well some people will just go by anything someone says and believe that they are right. Second opinions are always good to take into account when it comes to knowing what you wanna buy or not buy in video games. Just make sure the second opinion is coming from a different site.
Last edited by crapreviews on 10/30/2009 5:54:27 AM
6 up, 5 down
djduke316
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:14:24 AM
5 up, 2 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:37:08 AM
7 up, 7 down
Guest
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:42:36 AM
"Quiet, Pip!"
2 up, 2 down
crapreviews
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 10:02:10 AM
Let me point out his review about WET. Straight 6's again with one 5.5.
Go ahead and delete me from your site. If you cant take criticism about your own reviews without taking it to offense then maybe your in the wrong line of work. Any editor that writes has to learn to accept criticism. That's something they should have taught you in writing class.
5 up, 5 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 10:27:36 AM
I'm not deleting you. But maybe you could be a little more respectful (although I doubt that'll happen).
5 up, 4 down
crapreviews
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 10:39:31 AM
Im sorry Ben but when you see a review and the scores are just straight 6's down the board (granted each had one that was less than 6) that is just telling me you put no real effort into the game.
Arnold even admitted that he spent like an hour or something playing Sacred 2 and then just quit. Heck, he DIDN'T even play online with anyone at all. He said it wasn't worth his time, if im not mistaken. Don't feel like going back to find the review and remember everything from it.
I think there might have been a few other games that were just straight numbers down the board for scores. I'm sorry but that to me is just a piss poor effort. It takes nothing to go through a scoring system and just check 6 down the board evenually. Yes again he threw in a 5.5 in one and a 5.7 i think i said in the other. To me that was just his way of trying to throw people off from thinking he actually put some type of effort into the scoring.
I've never had a problem with your reviews Ben cuz i have never seen straight score numbers down the line like i have with Arnold. If you are not going to take the time to give an actual review and a real effort in scoring than dont reveiw the game. ESPECIALLY if you aren't even going to play all aspects of the game, which includes it's online part. Which YES would include actually playing with someone online and not just yourself.
7 up, 2 down
bigrailer19
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 12:11:47 PM
i will say that it was a blast to play and was a great dungeon crawler, and probably deserved more like a 6.8-7.2 range, but thats my opinion not Arnolds nor Bens. everyone who plays a game is going to have a dif. taste than you, Arnold from reviews ive read is huge on graphics and how a game runs, Sacred 2 was not a shiny diamond in this dept. and was far from it! even thought he gameplay was fun, it did have weaknesses, so id just drop it, its old news anyways! you liked it, i had fun with it, thats all that matters!
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/30/2009 12:13:18 PM
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 1:41:24 PM
Look, don't get all bent out of shape over a review you disagree with. That's all I'm saying.
4 up, 2 down
crapreviews
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:37:40 PM
maybe its just me but i just think to see straight 6's down the score is just a little suspect. But hey everyones entitled to their opinion right?
3 up, 1 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 2:45:49 PM
How in the hell does giving 6s down the line give you the idea I was being lazy? Wtf does that having ANYTHING to do with...anything?! The game simply below average/mediocre, and so it got a mediocre score. Everything it did was mediocre, and again, that meant it got a mediocre score. What, somehow it would seem LESS suspicious if the scores had hundreth-points attached in front of them? So somehow you see a 6.0 and you think "lazy"....oh, but if it were "6.1, 6.3, 6.4, 6.2, etc." you would't bat an eyelash? You're dense.
You simply sound butthurt that I didn't justify your opinion of the game, and to be upset about it 'til this day is pretty sad. It's even sadder that you would come at me like that, questioning my work in such a way, which I always take very personally. The game engine was an absolute disaster, and the framerate ruined the entire game.
If you don't like the site or my reviews, don't read them. Go bark up someone else's tree.
Last edited by ArnoldK PSXE on 10/30/2009 2:48:49 PM
7 up, 6 down
crapreviews
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:23:05 PM
AND YES im calling you out on giving POOR quality review. I only brought up Sacred 2 because you did the same BS with WET.
Your so dense you can't even take criticism. Get over it. You was being lazy and instead of admitting it you are trying to justify it. Sorry im not butt kissing you like everyone else on this site. It amazes me how many people will pass on a game because you wanna go half ass.
Why you think so many people bitched about your Borderlands review which caused Ben to step in and do one himself.
Get over yourself. Your reviews are not god and people have every right to judge your review how they see fit. Like i said i stopped trusting anything your review long ago. Frankly after seeing your so called "professionalism" on here in reply to comments to others who disagreed with your Borderlands review said a lot about you.
I still came to this site because like ive said ive never seen any reviews from Ben with piss poor quality (6,6,6,6,5.5,6).
Go ahead ban me im done with this site. If you cant take the heat get the fuck out of the industry. There's an F bomb for you.
Your dismissed.
4 up, 6 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:31:03 PM
Now you're saying that I said I never played online!? You are a lying troll. I never once said anything of that sort. I DID play the game online - there were a number of multiplayer sessions held by the developer that some of us participated in.
You're simply going off on a tirade against us, and specifically me, because you have some sort of bone to pick. I don't give a f*ck that you don't like my reviews, and that you think people kiss my ass here. But what I do give a f*ck about is your CONSTANT lying about what I did and didn't say.
So, no. YOU'RE dismissed. You're full of shit, and a transparent troll. Goodbye.
6 up, 9 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:54:27 PM
5 up, 1 down
Hezzron
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:24:57 PM
4 up, 0 down
Aftab
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:19:40 PM
2 up, 0 down
Hawkeye
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 8:12:28 AM
Reply
I feel if a game is done well, it shouldn’t matter what style it is whether sandbox or linear. It’s the enjoyment factor, and quality of the game that matters. I’ve played Oblivion a bit and enjoyed the freedom it offered because you didn’t have to do everything in order. Or the GTA series of games I've found fun. And now I’ve just finished Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune (please don’t hate me because I’m backward :)) and I THOROUGHLY enjoyed it! And it happens to be a linear game.
My take on the future of gaming is the trend will be toward open style games. Just look at the depth of some of the games today as compared to Pong! Games will get more immersive, not less, more complex, not less, more open not less. Granted there will still be the platformers etc, but as we, dare I say it, advance, so to will the depth of the games we’ll play.
That’s my humble opinion, now back to eating candy at 9am. Happy Halloween
Last edited by Hawkeye on 10/30/2009 8:15:31 AM
2 up, 1 down
Highlander
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 3:58:12 PM
Personally, I agree 100% with Ben on this issue.
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:00:09 PM
I believe that what the future has in store for us is games so advanced, so complex and so breeding with life that we do not have neither the technology or the competence to create such games today. And then we will look back at these years and crack jokes about how easily amused we were with these linear follow-the-path games of today.
3 up, 0 down
MyWorstNightmar
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 11:11:28 PM
0 up, 0 down
Trarman
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 7:17:58 PM
1 up, 0 down
Hawkeye
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 10:08:58 AM
I respectfully disagree with your assertion a game with a story will always be linear.
Whenever a player is given choices that actually make a difference in a game you are moving away from linear to non-linear. Case in point the article Ben did about Heavy Rain having a huge 2000 page script to account for all the freedom in choice you can make (http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/4273.html).
This is where I see gaming going. Uncharted:Drake's Fortune was great, but no matter what you did you had to follow their linear story line. In Heavy Rain it looks like you can play the game in many ways, make many difference choices and have a new experience each time.
That is a depth I think will be the norm in the future as opposed to the exception.
I am all candied out!
0 up, 0 down
JackC8
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:19:29 AM
Reply
I'd say I'd pick it up in the bargain bin some day, but with all the other great games coming out these days, I most likely won't.
3 up, 0 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 5:59:11 PM
0 up, 0 down
tes37
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 11:08:55 AM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 12:59:14 AM
2 up, 1 down
I_defenestrate
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 1:18:26 PM
Reply
On a side note, I'm looking forward to your review of Dragon Age. This site has the reviews I respect the most and wish there was a site that was equally as good as this one for the Xbox. Though, they don't really have the exclusives right now to warrant it, I guess. Still, it'd be nice.
Last edited by I_defenestrate on 10/30/2009 1:22:15 PM
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:39:23 PM
Reply
But you also came with a rather strange statement, "They tend to come from the PC side of things, where we receive freedom as a substitute for story and character development". I am, indeed, a former PC gamer, the PS3 is my first console ever in my life. So are you seriously claiming that there are a lack of linear, story/character driven games on the PC? Dude, the PS3 doesn't even reach the ankles of the PC platform when it comes to available games of ALL genres (and cross genres). Still after all these years, what are there to choose from for the PS3, if you remove all the FPS variations? Not much, not much at all. Fallout was a huge relief when that was released for the ps3 (a long time after it was available on the PC, mind you).
So, me coming from the PC gaming universe does not make one less of a gamer or more narrow minded - I'd say rather the contrary.
On a side note, I still like you, Ben. I don't base my liking of persons on to what degree they share my views on trivalities like gaming and such. No irony intended.
Also, I'd like to add that I am 40 years old and has been a gamer since I coded my first games on an Oric-1 back in the mid eighties.
0 up, 0 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 4:55:03 PM
That's all it is. Clearly you DON'T fall into that, since you went out and bought a PS3.
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:17:23 PM
Those who don't accept other platforms than their own or "know all" are not restricted to being PC gamers. They are found on all platforms and lord knows they infest most other parts of life too. Their collective label is "teenagers".
Oh and btw: I've finally found my "home" amongst the gamer sites out there. You guys got a good thing goin' here - including the community.
2 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 11:44:33 AM
But I do have one thing to say- this idea that the PC somehow has all these genres that consoles don't...I'm sorry, but that's long since dead. The consoles have every last genre there is, plus several - music, fighting, platforming - that the PC either doesn't have, or simply doesn't excel at.
I ask this question all the time of PC fans and I only get crickets chirping for an answer: name me a few GREAT PC games made in the past 15 years that DON'T fall into the following categories: RTS, FPS, WRPG. ...good luck with that.
There was also a time when PC games would dominate Game of the Year awards but a PC title almost never wins anything these days. And in terms of originality, I only have to look to little games on the PSN and past classics like Shadow of the Colossus to realize that what is on consoles is leaps and bounds ahead of the PC in every last respect.
The bottom line is that in the PC world, they made three fantastic, revolutionary games back in the '90s - Half-Life, Command & Conquer, and Baldurs Gate - and since then, have simply spun out a thousand clones of each. And because so many of them do NOT include much in the way of storytelling and "freedom," especially in MMOs, those PC elitists start to piss me off with their belief that all stories in games are "stupid." That's all I was saying.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/31/2009 11:46:34 AM
1 up, 1 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:07:44 PM
Reply
Press square to pick up an item. Cool. Hold square to pick up everything on screen... unless some items are too far away. Anything immediately to your left or right will not be picked up because it is off screen. Huh? If said item is a weapon you will NOT pick it up at all. You must pick up the guns individually. If you make the all too easy mistake of holding square to get all items but said item is a gun, then you DON'T get all the items, you get the gun you're pointing at (which is most likely crap) EQUIPPED! That's right. Middle of a firefight you want a health pack but point at a gun instead? You are screwed ! What do you get for your effort? No health and a crap gun in your hands.
One thing I'm very surprised that neither of you have mentioned is the alarming rate at which items DISAPPEAR. What ISSSSS that? There's ammo and guns everywhere because you've been running over dogs in your car. You jump out to collect and the stuff is disappearing faster than hookers in church. Don't like that one bit.
The rest of the game is awesome though and anyone who dares compare this to Fallout 3 is a fool.
5 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:24:07 PM
The loot timeout however, is something I do not understand why is there. However I got one theory (warning: this may be me hoping more than reasoning): Disappearing loot is common in massive multiplayer RPGs. It's the only way for the servers to cope with it. And might it be, that Gearbox actually are developing a MMORPG engine for the PS3, and an early version of it is used for Borderlands? Think about it... There are just *so* many similarities with how MMOs work, and it didnt have to be there as the game is today...!
0 up, 0 down
Frenchy17
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:27:59 PM
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:42:44 PM
2 up, 0 down
Hezzron
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:49:10 PM
....but I certainly don't think we need a re-review of a re-review on this site (3rd opinion). Us consumers will take it from here.
Last edited by Hezzron on 10/30/2009 6:52:38 PM
3 up, 0 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 6:57:13 PM
I asked Ben to play the game and write what he thinks about it. It actually wasn't his "choice", not like he did this intentionally to discredit me, btw. It was actually my request from him. Hehehe.
3 up, 2 down
Beamboom
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 7:47:15 PM
Disappearing loot is common in MMORPGs with servers hosting a persistent world (and thousands of connected clients). Under these circumstances the servers can't hold items forever. Hence my pure speculation about if they have started developing an MMO engine that are partially used here. But hey - this is just ramblings from a starved MMORPG-lover :)
0 up, 0 down
Alienange
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 7:21:31 AM
0 up, 0 down
Hezzron
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 1:38:26 PM
I'm surprised you even bother with instigating haters.
0 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 3:02:40 PM
Stupid 20th-century gaming conventions.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/31/2009 3:03:52 PM
0 up, 0 down
Geobaldi
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 1:50:46 AM
0 up, 0 down
flyboy
Friday, October 30, 2009 @ 9:11:49 PM
Reply
However, in Ben's opening comments here in this second review about his psychological profile of people who tend to like non-linear, free roaming games and how he finds them annoying. That was pretty uncalled for. And I'm guessing maybe it was aimed at me and others in the previous arnold's review who posted our disagreements to that review?
Just wanted to let you know that I actually am a very avid reader, film and music freak. (To Diggity Dig, good choice man, White Album's awesome, along with Hendrix's Axis: Bold as Love album. :D) I'm also a very active basketball and football player as well, just incase anyone else wants to throw out anymore stereo-types. And I actually dislike PC gaming. The only PC game I actually really got into was Diablo 2. But besides that, I'm a pure console guy. And I've been a gamer all my life since NES. So I guess I didn't really fit that profile mentioned in the beginning of this second review. But as for the "insufferable" part, I guess that's just a matter of opinion. lol
I truly hope having a "comments" section here is to give people a chance to voice their opinions and perhaps have some meaningful debates. And not instead to be pigeon-holed into some stereo-typical, psychological profile in a second review because of some differing opinions that someone may have wrote.
As for the statement about "giving a lot of freedom in games is just a substitute for story and character development." This really goes both ways. Quite often, for most games nowadays making it heavily linear, scripted and story based is often a substitute for good and original gameplay. When playing certain linear, story-heavy games, it does get very boring going through a linear stage and being forced to look for some key or solve some mini game riddle before you can advance. Plus, 99% of games have pretty bad stories and almost non-existent character development anyways. For example in Uncharted, which is a pretty good game, it's not like there was much great character development with the main character. Not to mention the lack of replay value with scriped, linear games in general. If I want a good story with good character development, I won't be looking for it in a game, I would rather watch a good film or read a good book. Having a good story doesn't hurt, it's just icing on the cake for video games. And really it's not very hard to write any of these stories you find in linear video games anyways.
On the other hand, the true nuts and bolts of a great game always comes down to gameplay and not story or character development. Great games in the past, from Mario brothers, Street Fighter, Diablo and Left 4 Dead were all predicated upon great gameplay and not because they wanted to be some hollywood movie.
Quite often now, with such strong graphical capabilities, many developers tend to rest on their laurels and rely too much on cinematic CGI to try to tell a half-assed story, which wasn't very good to begin with, while sacrificing good gameplay. And I think that in turn has hurt video games even more so, especially for hardcore gamers. As a result difficulty levels have gone way down, and you feel like you're just asked to walk from point A to point B just to get to the next cinematic cut scene.
But back to Borderlands. A reason why I enjoy this game so much is it's one of the first times that a game has ever successfully combined two genre elements so completely. As you've mentioned in your second review here, the action/shooting element is very solid. And the RPG, character development is also very well done as well. On top of that, throw in 4 player co-op and a Diablo style random equipment drop system. And really I feel any gamer should owe it to themselves to give it a try. It's really one of the best games I've tried among this generation of games.
Either way, this is just my opinion. And you guys are definately entitled to yours as well. I guess I better stay away from posting here anymore incase anymore differences of opinion gets labelled as being annoying or insufferable.
Last edited by flyboy on 10/30/2009 9:13:25 PM
1 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 1:03:54 AM
And bear in mind that when I say the FPS and RPG elements are both solid, the blending does NOT work very well in my opinion. In this review, I say I think it's ridiculous for a character to do the exact same amount of damage no matter where you shoot an enemy; this is where the RPG mechanic adversely affects the other side of the game, IMO.
Lastly, to claim that "99%" of games have poor stories or no character development at all isn't an opinion; it's flat-out incorrect. If you honestly believe we haven't advanced to the point where a story really is crucial in certain games, you're not fully understanding the industry. I would probably have never even finished MGS4 without the storyline, and Uncharted 2 really did feel like it had a decent action-based plot.
You just have to realize there is opinion and there is fact. Believe it or not, there IS some black and white in any entertainment-based industry, so it's not always about subjective views.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/31/2009 1:04:07 AM
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 1:25:56 AM
This game is in almost every respect a simple, straightforward game. A playground built for a group of friends to enjoy. And I see nothing wrong in that - simple fun can be fun too. :)
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 7:44:02 AM
2 up, 2 down
Geobaldi
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 1:56:07 AM
Hellgate:London was one of the first, if not the first, that I remember that combined the two genres. That game got a bad rap for basically doing the same thing as this one but in a different setting, different weapons, and a better story. Even if they are just first person Diablos, they're both great games and cater to specific crowds. True FPS players won't like it most likely. True RPG players won't like it most likely. Those that enjoy playing both, I think, will get some enjoyment out of it.
0 up, 0 down
Zemus101
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 1:26:33 AM
Reply
Last edited by Zemus101 on 10/31/2009 1:28:35 AM
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 7:46:55 AM
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 11:00:12 AM
Heck, what about if those of us who enjoy this coop-game shared PS-nicks and teamed up sometime? Could be fun to meet&greet the persons behind the nicks around here.
However, just as a prewqarning: Don't have too high hopes for the DLC. What started out as a seemingly good idea has in my opinion turned out to be nothing but a milk cow to squeeze more cash out of a game. Even the DLCs for Fallout - that added both new stories and new areas to the game - were a disappointment in my opinion.
0 up, 0 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 3:12:09 AM
Reply
7 up, 0 down
Alienange
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 7:52:07 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 10:31:09 AM
3 up, 0 down
flyboy
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 1:46:29 PM
Reply
As for posting about Borderlands, i already wrote two full comments about borderlands in Arnold's review. Didn't feel I need to repeat myself there.
And also something incorrect just noted by Ben, you actually do do different amounts of damage when you hit different areas. Head shots do a lot more damage, and in many cases are instant kills. And some other enemies may have certain weak spots as well. I'm really not sure how long or in depth the reviewers actually played this game to not have noticed this.... cause I figured it out by popping the heads right from the start. This is also how I managed to take out much tougher bosses, which were rated above my level. Had to snipe the boss' head every chance I got to even stand a chance.
As for some people feeling that it's incorrect to say most video games have poor stories and no character development. That's not a fact and it's not black and white. It really just comes down to a matter of opinion again. If you felt that Uncharted 2 had a great story then that's just your opinion. Which is cool. But where really was the character development for the main character? I certainly didn't notice anything meaningful there. And most video game stories in general are lackluster hollywood blockbuster level or poor B movie level writing at best. And in many cases they just try way too hard. But then I personally don't care for most hollywood blockbuster films like The Mummy or Scorpion King... so maybe that's why. If i'm going to finish a game not for the fun factor of gameplay, but just to see what happens in a B-movie level story. I'd rather watch a good film or read a good book. Because as I've said, gameplay is still the most important thing. And quite often developers lose sight of that.
As for story being crucial to some games. There's nothing wrong with that. However, it's important to realize that just because a game relies on a story, doesn't make that story good or means that that story has good character development. These are different things, and this is fact. And as for opinion, I personally wouldn't want to pay 60 or 70 bucks on a linear game that I can prob finish in less than 10 hours with a lackluster B-movie level story. Linear games like uncharted, although well-made for it's genre, isn't something I would personally throw my cash on. But then this is a grey area. In the end we just all end up agreeing to disagree anyways so it's all good.
There's nothing wrong with adding some story into a game. As I said before, it's just icing on the cake. But the key is for developers to not lose sight of what they are truly doing and overlook the gameplay, which is sometihng we do see happen too often unfortunately. Too much style over substance in many cases. And seriously, if someone actually thinks that a lot of the video game stories we get are very well written or have great character development, then perhaps we need to re-examine what type of films and books we normally watch or read. But hey, a movie like The Scorpion King made more money than The Shawshank Redemption in the theatres, go figure.
Last edited by flyboy on 10/31/2009 1:56:13 PM
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 2:04:50 PM
But you keep saying this melding of two genres is perfect and it's far from it. Don't ask us again if we actually "play the games;" I can not only guarantee we both played Borderlands for many hours, but I can also guarantee I examined aspects of the game you never even thought to test.
Furthermore, while there is always some subjectivity in stories, it is NOT and will NEVER be 100%. Nobody is allowed to say the story in "Terminator" is as skillfully crafted or as literally accomplished as Tolstoy's novel, "Anna Karenina." It would be false to claim this. You may LIKE one story more than the other, but there ARE inherent quality factors. But I shouldn't even make that comparison in the first place... In comparison to the rest of the video game world, there are plenty of good stories, and there's plenty of good character development. It's WRONG to say that 99% of games have poorly constructed stories and "no character development." So don't try to say otherwise and hide behind this, "oh, it's all opinion" BS.
I'm not comparing game stories to other entertainment mediums; that's retarded. What movie reviewer finishes reviewing a movie and says the story sucks because it's not as good as some literary classic? Lastly, it's dead flat wrong to claim that storylines are always nothing more than "icing on the cake" in games. Perhaps this comes from only playing games that don't bother with decent storylines. Maybe it's ignorance that makes you say what you say. But if you ever say any such ridiculous comment that stories and characters simply aren't important and unnecessary to RPG fans, prepare to get your head taken off.
You seem to think that YOUR personal preferences somehow translate to fact, and if they don't, everything else is all opinion. You are going to have to accept the fact that some of what you're saying about Borderlands is not correct, that what critics do DOES go above and beyond what most players even think of, and that it's downright illogical to make comparisons across entirely different entertainment mediums. You do that as a critic, you should be fired.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/31/2009 2:06:20 PM
3 up, 2 down
Alienange
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 2:14:24 PM
Or as Ben said above "to think that YOUR personal preferences somehow translate to fact."
Your entire fifth paragraph is riddled with it.
1 up, 0 down
flyboy
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 2:59:44 PM
Reply
The funny part is how you in a review would stereotype a group of people right out. Saying they rarely read and are downright insufferable. And you turn around and call me ignorant for what I write, which in most part is very cordial and civilized. I think people of this board by reading through all this can easily tell who's a bit more ignorant.
And it's really quite simple. Does hitting enemies in the head take off more hp? Yes it does. It either leads to a one hit instant kill, or a critical hit that takes off more damage in most cases. There may be some cases where it might take the same damage off. But most of the time it either leads to instant death or critical. Simple as that. There's been many games in the past where you can even just hit the guy in the leg and they die.
And incase you haven't noticed, many games and shooters have an hp system. Like Gears of Wars for example. Only they don't bother to show the damage indicators. So in Borderlands case, knocking the game for showing the damage u do on an enemy really means nothing. Most other shooting games you need multiple hits to take out the enemies' hp to kill them, they just don't bother to show it.
And please stop trying to make it seem like critics are above us all. Especially when some of you weren't even able to kill an enemy with different guns at point blank range and needed to resort to a knife.
The funny thing is you stereotype and call certain people unsufferable and annoying in your review here in the second paragraph, which is already unprofessional. And then you turn around and call other people ignorant and throw out terms like BS and try to base your own opinions as fact. This is pretty much hypocritical and ignorant as well.
Last edited by flyboy on 10/31/2009 3:07:54 PM
2 up, 5 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, October 31, 2009 @ 9:06:18 PM
Let me explain to you that if you know jack shit about what we do, you shouldn't comment. This was a SECONDARY opinion review and considering you're SO goddamn keen on telling me what I wrote, how about reading the part where I said this would NOT be like a standard review and that I would address specific personal comments made in regards to our former review. Or perhaps you missed that. Maybe if you actually read any of our other reviews - even effing ONE - you'd know that we not only adhere to the strictest critic and journalistic protocol, but we also never make any sort of personal observations about other gamers. Never. You can look through the hundreds of reviews I or Arnold have done, if you wish.
But why do any research? Why not just condemn us entirely based on one review? Why not just question every last thing we do and then pretend that we're being "defensive." Don't lecture me on how games work. Don't try to claim that all other shooters work the same way the shooting mechanic does in Borderlands because if you have a comprehension problem here, too, I'll point you in Gearbox's direction. Maybe they can explain it you. Again.
And you know how I KNOW you don't ever read? Because your brain can't recognize contextual sarcasm. Because you actually took it literally when I implied that all people who are extremely pushy about the idea that freedom is "superior" don't ever read. Anybody who has any literary comprehension skill whatsoever knows that line was expressly designed to put a small smile on the reader's face. It's like making rash generalizations about all stereotypes; it's not meant to be taken literally at all times, and it certainly wasn't written that way.
So yeah, here's what I think: I think you should stop spending your days slamming us at every turn, pretending to act innocent while lecturing with every word out of your damn mouth, and not ONCE reading anything else we've ever written. Intelligent people who wish to question others will look at a body of work. If you had even looked at two or three other reviews, you'd know this one was completely different. Hell, you'd know it if you had just READ the first PARAGRAPH.
So shut it. And stop posting. Contrary to what you may believe, you're not as smart as you think you are. I KNOW people like you and I'm too old to deal with it, anymore. Big surprise that you signed up to post just to defend your beloved Borderlands. Can't accept that it's not as good as you think? LOL
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/31/2009 9:12:34 PM
6 up, 4 down
Beamboom
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 12:50:52 PM
That, my friends, is professionalism.
After seeing how you handle the critics, calling them names, trying to ridicule them, is not. So if I ever could give you one word of advise (as if): Don't ever go as low as of some of the critics. Stay polite, rational.
2 up, 1 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 2:16:05 PM
If we get spat on, our retorts will do the same. There are soooooo many people who disagree with our reviews here and we've never once reacted to their opinions with any animosity, because they never went as far as to attack us or our work ethic. They keep it calm and respectful with us, and we do the same. But when you have tools like the guy I banned, and this guy over here going off on Ben, the gloves come off, we simply cannot deal with posters like this sitting down.
2 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 4:41:26 PM
And the following is meant as a friendly advise from a fellow "colleague":
There is a huge difference between a private user posting stuff on the web, and you being professional publishers on the web. You are at work, they are at home. This is a *major* difference.
To try an analogy to illustrate my point: Some of these people that slander/attack you probably have a job. Do you think they speak to their customers in the same way? The answer is obvious.
When you publicly attack your readers in the way you (meaning both of you) have done lately, all you gain by doing that is to *maybe* "get back" at that one single reader. But at the same time you create a very uncomfortable atmosphere for the other thousand readers and plenty will question how serious this site really is - it may indeed harm your brand.
What is most important? The answer SHOULD be as obvious.
Please, take this as a friendly advise, no more, no less.
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, November 01, 2009 @ 8:01:52 PM
It's all public. Calling our review "slanderous" in this section is public; it's entirely irrelevant where the person is. Insulting us by claiming we don't play the games we review is FAR more damaging to us, because it's PUBLIC, NOT PRIVATE. Our readers will see that and we have the means to respond and defend ourselves, and so we shall.
The other aspect of your analogy is also false, I'm afraid. None of these people are our customers. They do not PAY us to take advantage of the work we do, which makes everything very different. All we ask is the slightest bit of respect for what we do; we're not asking people to subscribe for a fee. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/1/2009 8:04:22 PM
2 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 1:18:01 AM
Of course you want respect for what you do, I understand completely! I do also understand why you get upset. But ask yourself, what did you gain from all this...?
And even though we do not pay to read the site, the comparison still stands. You need readers like a store need customers. It's no difference. Readers = money. You know this too so don't be too pedantic about it.
Instead, think about this: How can you possibly demand respect and politeness from your users when you behave in the exact same way yourself? You guys define the standards. Yes you didn't start the fire, but you sure added fuel to it.
I don't think we'll get any further with this discussion. Maybe it's a cultural related difference, even. *shrugs* Thanks for the reply anyways, and keep up the (othervise) good work!
1 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 10:19:17 AM
We're just not going to operate that way.
Edit: And as Ibsen's play, "An Enemy of the People" proves, if you let the masses set their own standards, you will, quite frankly, get sh**-ass standards.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/2/2009 10:40:10 AM
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 5:38:46 PM
But I've never meant that you should just let it stand. There is a third option: You got the Big Button - use it.
Yup, delete (part of) the messages that goes over the line instead of joining them crossing that line and generate even more of it as a consequence.
Someone will certainly scream "Censorship" but as a reader I would be thankful if I could be spared from the trolls.
Establish a rule that all posts must be related to topic. Personal attacks against publisher or community members will not be tolerated. I think this is a better way of dealing with it than to start calling some of your readers dicks, idiots, illiterates and whatnot.
Last edited by Beamboom on 11/2/2009 5:52:46 PM
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, November 02, 2009 @ 8:01:13 PM
But yeah, I know we have the option to delete and edit, but that has proven to be even more problematic in the past. I guess there's just no winning. 'sigh'
Of course, we'll delete and edit when our rules are clearly violated.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/2/2009 8:01:41 PM
1 up, 0 down
buckoboy1
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 4:50:13 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
therabbitkinge
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 @ 3:27:54 AM
Reply
I can't believe how far some people will go to slam other people at their jobs! Ben and Arnold you guys have once again proved your HUMAN with HUMAN opinions when some jerk offs come and try and d*ck off at you because they have a difference of opinion... and then insulting all of us in the community like that? We respect you guys but I don't think any of that guys rants were necessary.
You guys are great love the site love the reviews and love the damned feedback and love the fact that comments here aren't just "wastes of space" ^_^
0 up, 0 down
Scarecrow
Reply
Thursday, October 29, 2009 @ 10:50:57 PM
Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack In Time!
It deserves a 9!