PS3 Reviews: Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel Review

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Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel Review

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Graphics:

 

7.5

Gameplay:

 

6.9

Sound:

 

7.7

Control:

 

7.1

Replay Value:

 

7.0

Overall Rating:       7.3

 

 

Online Gameplay:

Not Rated

Publisher:

NIS America

Developer:

Gust

Number Of Players:

1

Genre:

RPG

Release Date:

March 15, 2011

2011 is a great year for role-playing fans, and one of the first promising titles for JRPG aficionados will release in two weeks time: Gust’s Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel. The game features a completely overhauled combat mechanic, a relatively interesting storyline, some unique characters, and a very clean – albeit somewhat lacking – visual style. Fans of past entries aren’t guaranteed to enjoy it; the gameplay is vastly different. The traditional turn-based format is gone (surprise, surprise) but the depth is still there and the battle mechanic, although problematic in some ways, is intriguing. I’ll actually be interested to see what the hardcore JRPG fans have to say about this because in all honesty, I really can’t predict. However, I will say that the presentation is classic JRPG from front to back, so that’ll appeal to the targeted audience.

The graphics are extremely clear and vibrant, but to attain that level of brilliance, it’s clear the developers sacrificed a lot of intricate detail. The combat special effects and basic visuals are so sheer and devoid of texture depth, it might almost be confused for a cel-shaded style. The animations, especially when just moving around the environment, are super smooth; almost too smooth, as the character feels weightless and collision detection is an issue. But that’s very minor in terms of gameplay implications. The high points of this graphical palette are undoubtedly the character and world design, as many of the towns and outdoor locations are nicely depicted and appointed. The game really starts to shine later after you’ve unlocked a few of the more powerful vanguard moves and Song Magic; the accompanying effects are a sight to behold. But it takes a while to reach that point, and I could understand the complaint that everything seems a little too stark.

The audio receives a definite boost from the soundtrack, which has always been a plus in this series. The music enhances most combat situations and although downplayed for your standard exploration and adventuring, it still resides pleasantly in the background. The effects range from decent to great, depending on the battle scenario. As for the voice acting, that’s mostly a personal thing, because we always have that exaggerated Japanese emotion; subtlety really isn’t practiced. Some really enjoy this style and that’s fine by me. But as is typically the case with JRPGs these days, I found some of the characters to be downright intolerable, while others were great. For instance, I thought Saki was always adorable and I usually couldn’t stand Finnel. I’m indifferent regarding the main character, Aoto. In general, the sound works very well on a technical level and the voices are about as subjective as can be.

It won’t take long to dive into this role-playing adventure, because you’ll be thrust into battle within the first few minutes of starting your quest. That being said, it’ll be quite some time before you unlock the full potential of your party; I think I had to play for a good four or five hours before I completely understood all aspects of the combat. …and I’m still not entirely sure I get it all. I’ll elaborate in a moment. The combat is the major focal point but for now, just the basics- you will run through standard open environments, where you will find random encounters (with a twist). You can jump and while it’s really floaty and erratic, this isn’t a platformer so I’m okay with this small eccentricity. You will visit towns and other civilizations but because all designers seem to have ditched the interact-able world map, the map in Ar Tonelico Qoga merely consists of selectable icons, denoting locations. Slick but kinda boring.

Now, before I get involved in the battle, let me talk about one interesting addition; it almost reminded me of Thousand Arms and the “dating” process. You don’t actually go on dates in this game, but you will have chances to talk to your female traveling companions when you break for camp (or wherever there’s the option to Rest). If there’s a topic available, you’ll see “Talk” next to the character’s name in the menu screen. So go Rest and have a chat; doing so will enhance your relationship with that character, and there are nine total levels of conversational goodness. You can even find new topics of discussion; they’re shining little balls you can grab when roaming about. The more you talk to one of your Rayvateils, the more she’ll like you, and the better she’ll perform in battle. I enjoyed this new feature quite a bit because it builds on the Cosmosphere idea.

Each Rayvateil has a Cosmosphere, and Aoto must “Dive” into that Cosmosphere in order to unlock the girl’s full potential. You need Dive Points and an understanding of the Rayvateil’s inherent personality, because there are mini-puzzles down there that require you to think about the girl you’re…in. Okay, there’s some innuendo there but it fits, because innuendo is deeply embedded in the game. And this is were we come to battle:

Yes, the turn-based combat is gone. Now we have an open field where everything happens in real-time. The setup is reminiscent of something like Star Ocean, where the allies and enemies start on separate sides, run at each other, and are limited to the size of the battlefield, which isn’t huge. You press the Square button to attack and while you’re moving or attacking, you’re susceptible to strikes; only if you stop can you block. That’s something to think about although the more I played, the less I paid attention to this. What I had to pay most attention to was the health and skills of my Ravateil- you can never control her but she helps if you attack in tandem with a rhythm bar – the Harmograph – that flows along the bottom of the screen. I found this to be interesting but also a touch confusing. When the Rayvateil’s heart grows enough, she can Purge…where she strips off some clothing and does something quite fancy. The more clothes she loses, the more powerful she becomes.

Titillating, yes, but also quite effective. Those around her – the vanguards – also have Supermoves that can be learned, and those can be quite deadly as well but without your Ravateil, you’re probably mincemeat. Purging is done by holding down all the shoulder buttons and shaking the controller but much like the Harmograph function, it doesn’t work 100% of the time. There were times when I was almost convinced that the entire mechanic was hit or miss, and I never knew how to “hit” all the time. A Ravateil’s basic skills can enhance the vanguard’s attack and defense, and protect them from various status ailments. She can also directly target enemies; you can aim the spell (and hand out Items) by pausing the game. The overall feel of combat is fast-paced and satisfying, but it just felt like things were a little beyond my control too often. Regardless of the Rayvateil of your choice, she’s always extremely susceptible and even low-level enemies can kill her quickly.

And given her importance, you find yourself standing close to your most valuable party member, playing defense. This is usually only during tough battles but I still found it annoying. The Harmograph is a really neat idea but it’s just too erratic in my eyes, and I never like the idea of only being able to control one character. Thankfully, the AI is pretty darn solid and you won’t be yelling at your screen too often; they typically do their jobs well. The enemies pose various challenges, the environments are usually fun to explore (even if the linear progression is obvious), and the story can be gripping when the plot gets dark and bizarre. This contrasts sharply with the kooky, flighty nature of some of the characters, but that sort of adds to the appeal, doesn’t it? The control is fine and although you don’t ever feel like a true field tactician, you rarely feel out of touch with the flow of battle.

One last thing I will mention, and this is bad news to the grinders out there. When out in the open, you will see an encounter bar on your screen. At first, it’s completely full. The change in color – from blue to green to orange to red – denotes the chances of you running into a random battle. When that battle is complete, the bar will drop permanently and when the bar is entirely depleted, you will never again run into a battle, so long as you stay in that area. Even jumping out and quickly returning won’t cause the bar to refill and enemies to respawn and I found this intensely irritating, because I’m one of those people who likes to build up. The problem is that this game seems specifically designed to discourage anything slow-paced; the combat is now crazy hectic and even the random encounters are limited, all for the sake of speed. I’m just not sure this is what the fans want from their JRPG.

In the end, Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel is a decent game that many should enjoy, provided they’re familiar with the distinct Japanese flair, and provided they like the drastic gameplay change. To be clear, I like a great many things- I like the Cosmosphere – weird and slightly perverted, but a nice change of pace – I like the conversation/relationship system, I like the AI and attempts at combat innovation, I like some of the characters, and I like parts of the story. I just don’t feel like I’m in full control during battle and despite all the depth, you won’t tap into the majority of that depth unless you’re engaged in a particularly challenging fight. And the idea that greater strength is derived from more bare skin is…well, I’ll leave that open to interpretation. If you’re a fan of the genre, my recommendation would be to watch some battle footage; if you like what you see, make the purchase.

I say that because, for all intents and purposes outside of the overhauled combat, this is an easily recognizable JRPG.

The Good: Great music and a few well-voiced characters. Several interesting twists to new combat mechanic. Depth and presentation are highlights. Character interaction via conversation and Cosmospheres can be fun. Story has a few surprises.

The Bad: Lack of detail in the admittedly sharp graphics. Innovative gameplay attempts fall a little short. Parts of combat can be unreliable. Design focus on speed is questionable.

The Ugly: “No…no Finnel…shut up…stop talking…”

3/1/2011 Ben Dutka

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Comments (54 posts)

SayWord
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 9:43:46 PM
Reply

I'm extremely excited for this game, I preordered it the moment I was able to. After reading this review I know I did the right thing. NISA is doing an amazing job this year with this and hyperdimension neptunia! I wonder what else NiSA has in store for us this year. ^^

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Lenoxseer
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 9:59:00 PM
Reply

This game is gonna be awesome. Im not expecting it to be as good as the second one though.

Hey Ben,
Did you notice any major bugs like the few that were in the second game. And if there are bugs, are they game breaking?

Last edited by Lenoxseer on 3/1/2011 9:59:27 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:33:03 AM

No, those bugs are basically gone.

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Highlander
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:13:01 PM
Reply

The switch from turn based battle is a major downer - major. Why the hell do these developers feel the need to kill a game mechanic that many, many people love?

I would be interested in a quick comparison of Ar Tonelico Qoga to Hyperdimension Neptunia because although Neptunia is definitely turn based, and I mean definitely, the exploration of dungeons in the game is clunky and feels very slow. Distractingly so.

It almost sounds like the two games have half the elements needed to make a classic JRPG and if the best bits of both were brought together, it would be a winner.

Really and truly though, I do not understand why this ..searching for a polite word... morons in charge of game development feel they must do away with turn based. Is it too complicated for them? Are they simply unable to program that kind of system now? I am seriously beginning to think that it is something like that because there is a large audience out there ready, willing and able to buy and play a real turn based JRPG, it's just that no one seems to be capable of producing one. So, perhaps that is it, perhaps the game developers are simply unable to comprehend how to build a turn based system any more?

My copy is on pre-order with NISA, and as soon as I have spent enough time with Neptunia to give a competent user review, I'll delve into what Ar Tonelico has to offer this time around.

Last edited by Highlander on 3/1/2011 11:13:50 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:32:56 PM

Trinity Universe had the clunkiest exploration in a JRPG I've ever seen. What is the deal with that?

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The Doom
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:41:54 PM

If the system is really that appalling to you, then just don't buy it. I personally don't mind the system if its turn-based or real-time, as long as the game itself is satisfying. Besides, real-time isn't that bad; its a part of the jrpg genre as much as turned-based and a lot of jprgs used it for years (as well as hybrids of turn-based). You've made it sound like it's something horrible and it isnt.

Don't you find it stretch to call them 'morons' because of that? :P

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Eld
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:10:49 AM

I also miss turn based combat. Honestly, for me, games with turn based combat are more relaxing and enjoyable. Not only that real time based combat is less enjoyable for me but it's also sometimes simply stressful. It makes me miss what's actually happening in the game. Games today are beautiful, but during combat I might miss a good portion of what's happening because I'm staring at... oh so wonderful health bars, timers, buttons and whatnot.

I'd say turn based combat systems are easier to program but are much harder to design. However reasons are probably less technical oriented. Market research results show this... or that...

Turn based combat is slower but more tactical. Real time combat is faster and more flashy. Somehow, trend today is flashy above all else.

What I would like to see is game offering both turn based system and real time system in some form, so gamers can make a choice. It's harder to design and program, sure, but not impossible. Even just adding pause button BioWare style, or slow down time, or some combination of these more tactical options would increase fun factor for me and it could, potentially be, very innovative.

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:49:42 AM

No Doom, I call them morons because they have all be destroyed the turn based mechanic for no good reason. Satisfied?

You can go on about how great real time is all you like, I prefer turn based, and that's the way it is. I've played many games with a more active or real time based system, some of them have been pretty good, some OK, but most have been mediocre at best and terrible on average - IMO.

Don't make what sound horrible? non-turn based battle systems in JRPGs? Sorry, no can do, I don't like them. I by far prefer turn based systems. To me the real time or action based battle systems are generally horrible. OK there are one or two exceptions to that, and even a game or two I'd say I liked. However, I'd have to say, that for me, the shift away from turn based battle systems has been a very negative development in RPGs.

I think you'll find that I'm not alone in thinking that. And if you think it's a stretch to use the word 'morons' to describe developers who remove the turn based mechanic from game franchises that have always been turn based, you haven't been reading the comments here for very long. That's a mild assessment of those developers that do that compared to things that have been said around here.

Tearing run based mechanics out of JRPGs and replacing it with a real time or action based system is like taking Halo or Call of Duty and changing them from a first person shooter into a top down arcade shooter. Very few existing fans of the games would have anything positive to say about such a change. Most of them would feel betrayed by an industry they'd supported, and 'moron' would be one of the milder words used.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:00:24 AM

We don't mind when a jrpg uses real time so long as that fit the series. Star Ocean was always that way, so is Tales, but turn based shouldn't be nixed from series wherein that was the base battle format all along. Unless maybe if its just a spinoff like FFVersus.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:04:40 AM

No need to call'em morons, you want turn-based? Buy a PSP or DS, simple. Real time RPGs are just as fun as turn based, besides the arguement is moot considering I do not forsee a return to turn-based on the console side. I mean look at Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Everyone was like this will be a return to traditional RPG's and it's really a Kingdom Hearts FF, which is awesome in my opinion. Turn-based is just non-existent, unless you are only going to play NIS games, which can be very hit or miss.

I understand that companies are making changes. Changes some "few" do not like, but when you consider the costs of developing for these consoles and what risks they take releasing them outside of Japan, I can understand from a designer standpoint to make changes that may appeal to wider audience. I know I'm not the first to admit I didn't agree with the changes from TB to RT for this new Ar Tonelico, but I can accept. I love the series. I can't imagine with a design change to play more like Tales of that it would destroy my overall liking of the series. It'll be something new.

I know a lot of folks come here to voice opinions of the industry and want the return of TB, but you have to accept reality, it just doesn't seem to be something that will sell. It pains me to say it. The last "great" turn-based game I played was Lost Odyssey, and no it wouldn't come out on the PS3 because Hironobu Sakaguchi does not like Ken and wont develop for the PS3. Look at Last Story, lost potential by coming to Wii and using the gimicky controls. He'd rather develop on the Wii where the game will bomb stateside than bust out the big guns and develop on the Power House PS3. I never really understood that myself, but oh well. :(

Last edited by DIsmael85 on 3/2/2011 9:18:25 AM

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The Doom
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:15:05 AM

You know Highlander, it seems you forgot the one thing that separates this entry from the other two and I'm not talking about the system or the graphics. This is Ar Tonelicos first (and probably only) entry onto next-gen hardware. Since the hardware is different from what they're used to, have you thought they saw this system change as a new way to experience the series? Besides, as the last entry, they might not get to do this again, so why not end a series in a different way? It's still a jrpg either way. No offense, but you calling them morons based on this decision seems a bit spiteful.

Last edited by The Doom on 3/2/2011 9:17:01 AM

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:44:13 AM

@DISmael
It really... REALLY isn't a few that miss turn-based. And I don't want to buy a DS. Playstation MAIN consoles have been KING for turn-based RPG's for the last 2 generations. Why should I switch consoles now? Why would they cease making turn-based?

But maybe you're right. Maybe for people like us "few", Sony is no longer the best system.

Shame I have to go to a handheld to get what I want.

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:02:21 AM

Doom,

I'm forgetting nothing. the fact that this is the first Ar Tonelico on a new hardware generation does not excuse or justify or explain the alteration of a core game mechanic. Please stop trying to justify the use of a battle system I don't like. No amount of rationalization on your part is going to convince me to all of a sudden like realtim or action based battle systems in a JRPG.

DIsmael85,

Buying a PSP? I have three. I have innumerable JRPGs on the PSP already. I want turn based games on my home console just like I had with my PS2, and PS2. I don't see why I should have to switch my gaming to an inferior hardware platform to keep turn based mechanics in a JRPG. Are you saying that the PS3 and PS3 developers are not capable of them? I doubt that some how which leaves you with one alternative, a conscious decision was made to change something that has been a core component of JRPGs since the very get go. I think that is a moronic decision, and those making that decision are therefore as morons in that regard. I don't give a fig whether you or Doom think it's too rough to call a person making a moronic decision moron a moron, personally I think calling them morons is pretty light, but hey, what do I know? I mean, it's not like I've only been playing video games since 1978, nor is it like I've been playing JRPGs for the better part of two decades. No, it's not like I have a reason to feel this way, after all my favorite genre hasn't been gutted over and over in this new generation of games has it? Oh, wait, it has. Silly me, I guess I do have a reason to feel this way.

As far as FF vs XIII, I've never thought it would somehow mark the return of traditional JRPG game play. I may have hoped way, way, way back at it's inception, but all the news and information about the game since that very first announcement has been contrary to that, so I have held no hope at all about that.

As for accepting a reality? I reject that reality and substitute my own, it's the only way to go.

Last edited by Highlander on 3/2/2011 10:09:20 AM

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Kagamin
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:24:27 PM

I kinda understand what TheHighlander is saying cause I don't think I would've liked if Tales became turned based or if the Persona series became real time. I don't know why devs are trying to distance themselves from turn based battle systems either cause I think it can be done as long as they do something to keep it fresh and interesting. I like both types of battle system but both can fail equally for me if there's nothing new to hook me.

And...people thought Versus XIII would be a return to traditional RPG? Why? The staff was the KH team since the beginning, I thought everybody expected a similar battle system to KH because of this.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 2:46:03 PM

@Highlander, I'm surprised you even play any games this generation. When I say "few" I mean "few" Why else do you think there are not that many turn-based games? I hope and pray that Persona 5 will stick to it's roots. I'm not sure if you've played Persona 4, but it was released in limited quantities. They do this to ensure that the game will meet a small expectation. They cannot afford to mass produce the game if a small group of people are going to buy it. We just have to face it. I'm with you Highlander, I love turn-based RPG's, have been playing them pretty much all my life as well. Probably have played some you haven't and vice versa.

Let's think of Gust's situation on this. Let's say I give you a budget of 15 million dollars. You have to design a game that not only will appeal to the Japanese, but later the Western audience. You study the market changes, what RPG's have sold pretty decent recently in the west. What you may think more people will play over the "few". You can decide to take a risk and not change anything, or you can play the safe route and change something, but you have to be sure you can turn a profit. Why not go the safer route? It's not moronic, it's just thinking ahead to be able to assure you can continue making games. Like I said above, I'm not the first to say I disliked the changes, but I am accepting. I will not condone.

You have every right not to play this game. I don't blame you, but it'll be your continued loss if you want to turn your back on something fun. Tales of Graces F is going to rock, played the import version, was so happy to have a US announcement. It's not turn-based never has been, and they have been hugely successful. I wonder why, the production value has never been as high as say, Final Fantasy XIII, but they manage.

I've been a huge fan and will continue to be of Japanese RPG's. Turn-based or otherwise. It's been around since before PS1. As a gamer, you should know this. I'm not against you. I would be first in line for a new awesome TB JRPG if it was good, but what choice do I have? I have to enjoy what I have. If that means it's going to be Real-Time, then so be it. I don't want to see my favorite developers suffer, I want to support them.

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 3:06:26 PM

If my favorite developers decide that I and the other loyal customers matter less than a crowd of twitchers, I have no reason to continue supporting them.

I'm sorry DIsmael85, I can't continue this discussion. I'm already disappointed enough with JRPGs this generation, there's no point in my arguing with anyone about it because it's not their fault that the developers/publishers have changed things. No amount of arguing or discussing is going to make me or anyone else feel better about the changes to a once beloved genre of game.

So, on that note, I'm going to bow out of this.

Last edited by Highlander on 3/2/2011 3:09:56 PM

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 4:23:31 PM

I respect your opinion on it Highlander. No disrespect for that whatsoever. I hope for a day when Turn-based becomes a main selling point for RPG's, so I feel you on that. It's just in the meantime I will enjoy what I have. I can at least say we have something to enjoy rather than nothing at all. :)

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DIsmael85
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:20:16 PM
Reply

Neptunia feels to me much like Trinity Universe, however with a more compelling storyline that actually interests me. Ar Tonelico will be a definite purchase as I own the previous two. The change from Turn-based is definitely a sour note for me as well, but as long as Gust delivers more so than Compile Heart has been doing I will be happy. I do greatly enjoy most of NISA games. It's just great to have those quirky JRPG's come stateside and to have NISA be exclusive to the PS3.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:34:30 PM
Reply

Turn based starvation. I'm still on the fence. Why does the background look like it hasn't been built yet? Is it always like that?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/1/2011 11:39:23 PM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, March 01, 2011 @ 11:40:18 PM
Reply

I almost don't even want to talk about it. It makes me queezy thinking about the complete lack of turn-based on consoles. Seriously... why must Nintendo DS (or 3DS) be the ONLY system capable of delivering this?

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:33:54 AM

That's just it, they're not. Lost Odyssey did just fine with true turn-based combat and exploration for the 360. This game , I believe, was simply made for the wrong console and the developers paid for it.

I just want one of these Japanese developers to do it right . Just one to do it right for the PS3 and watch what happens. Money has it that the reaction will be so extraordinary that all the other JRPG developers will follow suit.

I'm just asking for one dev to test one true full fledge traditional JRPG with all the right fixin's on the PS3 and to watch what happens.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:49:10 AM

^ Totally agree with your comment.

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:50:15 AM

Underdog

PSP!

DS isn't the only turn based game in town. PSP!!

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:46:39 AM

@Highlander
I have a PSP, but you gotta admit, DS has more turn-based mechanic... I'm still ticked they got DQ9. DQ/DW 7+8 were Sony games... Adored both.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:47:44 AM

DISmael, what? I'm confused. Do you agree with ShadowScorpio or do you think a traditional jRPG won't sell?

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:05:27 AM

@Underdog,

Indeed. I agree. DS get's far more turn based love. I'm tired of this whole situation. I guess I should say that for a Playstation owner, PSP is the only game in town.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:24:50 PM

Shadow is right, if a single great turn based jrpg came onto PS3 this gen it would ignite the fan base like never before. Then the half breed games could cease and the business would get more sales and the fans and everyone would be happy across the board.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 2:52:05 PM

@Underdog, sorry dude I meant that I agreed with what you were saying. :)

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 5:19:37 PM

@DISmael
ah, I get it now. lol

@WorldEndsWithMe
I think you're right. None of these devs creating console jRPG's are really stepping up. It's like they're all using minimal budgets with half baked ideas. I'm pretty sure they're the only ones taking risks, and they aren't even buying into the idea fully. I really don't think anyone has given it a chance at all this gen. WKC kind of did, but if we're honest, even that isn't really a full-on commitment to what we want out of jRPG's.

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Eld
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:22:44 AM
Reply

I'm definitely getting this one. I may or may not enjoy combat, but I'm hoping rest of the game will be good. Also, music in this series is great, especially the first title. Too bad this will be last game in the series.

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:52:25 AM

Yeah, the rest of the game definitely sounds like it will make up for the combat system - almost.

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D1g1tal5torm
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 4:08:30 AM
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Turn based = slow and boring.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 4:12:43 AM

Turn Based really doesn't equal that, however we are all entitled to our own opinions. Unless of course you were trolling and I fell into the trap. Out of all Genres Turn-based has been the most fun of the RPG's. There is just something about having the ability to think in a game rather than just hack and slash your way through an adventure. With Turn-base comes strategy and planning. It's a shame to see it disappearing this Gen, especially considering the PS3 would be the best place for them.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:00:50 AM

Turn based = strategical thinking

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The Doom
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:09:43 AM

Hardly. Valkyrie Profile has a turn-based system and I had a hell of a good time with it. Turn based is more akin to chess in which you have to think about your moves carefully, but then again some of my favorite jrpgs were also real-time

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 9:49:51 AM

"Turn-based = Slow and Boring" = *Twitch*Twitch*

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Highlander
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:04:00 AM

D1g1tal5torm = provocative and trolling.

I have no patience at all for this. So, bite me.

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Kagamin
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 11:37:52 AM

Just being turn based doesn't define a battle system as slow or boring. I've played some rpgs with real time battle system that were pretty slow, boring and had nothing really innovative. As a matter of fact, what I saw from Ar Tonelico 3 battle system it looked very slow (and still bothers me that the girls lose their clothes to get stronger in battle). They tried to copy the Tales battle system and, for me, they failed badly. Poor design choices is what makes or breaks a battle system, be it turn based or real time.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:17:53 PM

@ D1

Chess isn't the same as black jack. Rpg's and Jrpg's used to be a genre that was known for turn-based style. Just like a shooter isn't known to be a platformer like crash bandicoot. If it bores you, thats fine. You can just leave it alone. That doesn't mean that turn-based should be totally extracted from RPGs/JRPGs.

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Excelsior1
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 5:56:10 AM
Reply

the rise of 360 as the console of choice for hardcore gamers in the us, and the rise of twitch gaming probably have killed off the turn based jrpg genre. ms was keen on getting jrpgs at the strart of this gen, and when they didn't sell you get the situation we have now. ms essentialy nuetralized sony's advantage in jrpg content, and it was the developers who paid the price. their games didn't sell leaving the developers scratching thier heads, and us without our beloved turn based jrpg.


i remain convinced a traditidional turn based jrpg could sell on the ps3. lost oddysey was on the wrong system. i would love to see a turn based jrpg with ff's production values. sony has turned it around now and there are a lot more ps3's out there starving for a great turn based jrpg.

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WolfCrimson
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 6:58:21 AM
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I'm sorry to say something that fans of this type of game would get deeply insulted by, but listening to that video was like having red hot fireplace pokers being shoved into my ear canals (I hope this isn't the soundtrack of the game?). And the graphics were kinda ok, but the stuff happening in that vid... omg, was that the girl's nipples at 0:50?! And what the hell are those black spermatozoa-like monsters?! AND WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH NO TURN-BASED?!?! If I was captured by ruthless mercenaries and was going to be effectively tortured, they'd make me listen to and play this game.

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/2/2011 7:03:31 AM

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 8:11:58 AM

I'm still going to play this game. I also want all those who look upon this with question of no turn-based. What will you do when Tales of Graces F comes out. Everyone was like please please Namco bring it out. I just want everyone to take a step back and realize. Tales of Games have never used traditional T-B gameplay. Yet we want want want. I'm am most sure that Ar Tonrlico 3 will be just a fun and quirky as the previous two. It only makes me think most on here have not played the previous games and were looking for a quick RPG fix. Not pointing the finger solely at you. I've just come to realize that no one is ever satisfied with anything Japan puts out in RPG form, thus sales lack and it becomes a budget crisis for them to even consider making higher quality games that would even cater to our interests. Not saying we should take what they give us like sheep, but maybe a more considerate willing to play outlook and more people trying would be a better change of pace. :)

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Neckbear
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 2:05:34 PM

...You seem to feel kind of lost.

The music is, indeed, part of the OST- It's one of the hymns you have to "synchronize" with. After getting the hang of the rythm of the song and whatnot, you can attack in synchronization to it, which earns you a "beat up". Enough beat ups, and you can make your girl strip. The music also changes depending on how you're performing, which Purge level you're in, and which girl you're using.

The reason behind the strippin' is the following, at least in the in-game lore: It means losing certain elements that could interfer in the transmition of data between the Reyvateil and the tower of Ar Tonelico, which is why, when they strip, to gain a better connection with the world. But I'm sure that, lore aside, they just said "Hey, let's make a buncha lolis strip", and everyone yelled: "Brilliant!".

About the combat, all games have changed combat, for example, AT1's a mix of "wait for your turn" and a real-time scenario when Reyvateils charge their songs, whereas AT2 was more about attacking/defending in a Guitar Hero/whatever style that required your imput. For example, when an enemy attacked, you had to press a button at the exact time said enemy did so to defend your Reyvateil correctly, and in the Attack phase you were given some time to perform certain actions and whatnot.

I honestly don't get the complaints that can be sumed up into "HURR NO TURN BASED WTFLOL", when the series is known for not being full turn-based nor any of that.

And, about the monster design, it's a goddamn JRPG.

Well, all I can say. I find your statement shallow, myself, but ah, I'm kind of biased, considering I love the series.

Last edited by Neckbear on 3/2/2011 2:10:46 PM

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Excelsior1
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 10:14:15 AM
Reply

@dismael 85

i see what you mean about people sometimes looking to wrong games for a turn based fix. i'm still going to play this game also.

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kraygen
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 12:49:29 PM
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Hmmmm, decent score, good review, but I'm still a little unsure and when I'm unsure that means it must wait for the bargain bin special amazon cheapo price.

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Neckbear
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:01:01 PM

Heheh, good luck with that, fella.

Considering this is a NISA release, the possibilities of that happening are little to none. Perhaps if you're lucky, you'd get a 40$ copy after 6 months, but without the Artbook nor the OST that they usually have, that's it.

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kraygen
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 5:03:11 PM

Well I don't really care about the artbook or any special items for games I'm unsure about and some games I've waited over 2 years before I purchased, so no biggie there either.

I'm patient and eventually all games can be found cheap as long as you watch and bide your time.

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Ar_tonelico
Friday, March 04, 2011 @ 3:49:52 AM

I agree with Neckbear. There is no guarantee there will be a cheap price for this game even without the artbook and soundtrack. Plus these limited editions do have to sell out to make a cheaper release anyways and chances of that are slim.

Niche games don't get treated the same way as more popular games. Popular games sell well and eventually become like $20-$30 releases. Niche games are more like sitting on store shelves desperately waiting for someone to buy it with its $59.99 price tag because it has to sell 1st before a price drop occurs.

NISA usually only has 1-2 shipments of their games. Most of the time having sales that don't even reach 100k since not many people buy niche games and usually only just the fans. Of course their games are low budget titles, so doesn't really need to sell a whole lot anyways, but still not enough to make much of a profit.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:27:07 PM
Reply

What's the deal? All girls become more powerful when they lose their clothes right? Or at least more aggressive.

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Excelsior1
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 1:42:52 PM

you didn't know that? you got to dive in to unlock a girls full potential.

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DIsmael85
Wednesday, March 02, 2011 @ 4:26:02 PM

:O :O Haha.

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Ar_tonelico
Friday, March 04, 2011 @ 3:30:43 AM

@Excelsior1 No diving into their Cosmospheres only unlocks Song Magic for the R.A.H. system for the Reyvateils.

@WorldEndsWithMe It's a kind of complicated thing to answer and will lead to some spoilers, but let's just say it's more than just losing clothes in battle. I will say this though, their Song Magic, when purged like this and losing their clothes in battle, is more like increasing the power of their Song Magic to make it a lot stronger by borrowing power from the planet with the Will of Ar Ciel.

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Sunday, March 06, 2011 @ 7:55:40 AM
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Dimsum
Sunday, March 06, 2011 @ 10:02:12 AM
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Another reason the j-devs have lost faith in the traditional turn based JRPG is much the same as the reason they have lost faith in their style of game design as a whole no matter the genre......The Xchum brainwashing that American game media has succumbed to.
This gen saw a radical shift in the way game media treats both sony and Japanes games as a whole. MS hit the market first and the "install" base is huge, (in America, though I doubt more than 70% of those consoles function) and the poor consumer reception of anything non Pew Pew Pew has lead to Japan losing faith in their own vision.
After my 4th RRoD I will never touch Micro$haft garbage again. Thanks to the American mentality of Buy American, and we're number 1, we have a market saturated with mediocrity. If Sony were to have unleashed the RRoD upon the masses of asses they would have been crucified.
Sadly, one of the first losses real gamers have had to suffer is TB JRPG's.
I bought 4 360's, not b/c I like MS but b/c the first two years they had some decent JRPG's but since 08 they havent produced a single game worth looking at and 2011 is their worst year yet. It is worse than the launch year for ps3. Again, if Sony had a garbage lineup this year we would see 100 IGN and GS articles a week about how they have abandoned the fans and how evil they are but with MS its, "we have a huge announcement about the upcoming announcement to reannounce the releasedatefor our only game this year that we previously announced a date for and then announced that we pushed the announcement back"....and thats front page news everywhere
And lets not start on this xbro mentality of "wait til E3....MS has lots of secrets in store for 2011"....BullHell I say...the faster MS dies the better but Amercan media and mongoloids will never let that happen.
This started as a "rest in Peace TB JRPG's" but turned into my hatred of what America has done to gaming this gen....ah well...I guess they're related.

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