Epic Games: Next-Gen Console Specs Aren't Going To Cut It
See Full ImageRecently, Epic Games went on record saying the video game industry requires a drastic graphics leap in the next generation of consoles.
During a Wired interview, the developer said the new systems would have to "damn near render 'Avatar' in real time," and "gamers want it even if they don't know they want it." Epic is prepping the fourth iteration of the Unreal Engine and evidently, it's going to require some monster specs on the part of Sony and Microsoft's new machines.
But unfortunately, according to Examiner.com, Epic has gotten a peek at both the PS4 and Xbox 720, and they say neither will "be enough to provide the type of performance that they are building their new engine for." They're also pushing Sony and Microsoft to add more power. Whether or not that will actually happen remains to be seen.
Now, not every developer thinks we need more power. Quantic Dream boss David Cage favors new ideas over more technological capability, and he recently told Develop that we don't need to see new consoles until 2017. ...who do you side with?
Tags: ps4, playstation 4, epic games, next-gen, next gen consoles
5/21/2012 8:39:19 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (61 posts)
godsman
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 11:32:50 PM
6 up, 1 down
___________
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 6:34:03 AM
is it just me or are developers hell bent on contradicting themselves?
2 up, 1 down
Fabi
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 11:56:59 AM
1 up, 0 down
Lord carlos
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 9:33:16 PM
Reply
3 up, 1 down
Temjin001
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 9:40:32 PM
Reply
7 up, 0 down
Temjin001
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 9:54:22 PM
4 up, 2 down
godsman
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 11:34:34 PM
0 up, 3 down
Temjin001
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 12:05:54 AM
hehe, anyway, the examiner article is poorly written and created more questions from me than it answered so I traced back their source to the original Wired source, and there the editor is summarizing from Sweeney's comment, but in his own words that misleads (amazing how these things snow ball like this) .
Check this,
For his part, though, Sweeney is a bit more diplomatic. “We’re much more in sync with the console makers than any other developer is,” he says. “That means we can give detailed recommendations with a complete understanding of what is going to be commercially possible.” In other words, Epic has seen the specs of proposed new consoles and is actively lobbying for them to be more powerful. It could be a bad sign for the industry if new ... --Wired
See the part of "In other words" Basically what Sweeney didn't actually say, but has now been re-intrepretted but without the "can" to mean this now, "Holy crap! Epic is unhappy with MS and Sony's next-gen consoles so NOW they're lobbying for more power to get those Avatar graphics we don't know we want."
The reality is Epic has always been lobbying for extra processing. It's their business. They did the exact thing for 360. MS listened and upped the RAM. They're doing the same thing now. And Crytek does the exact same thing. It's not an acknowledgement of how terribly underpowered the next-gen will be.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 5/22/2012 12:07:13 AM
4 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 6:37:20 AM
yea its pointless putting out a system developers are not happy with, and one thats really not warranting its existance.
but, well, dont forget $ony has not been profitable for over 4 freaking years!
and has just suffered the largest FY loss the company has ever seen!
and its stock is at the lowest its been in history!
in short there not exactly swimming in cash.
they cant afford to come out and bring the next supercomputer like that did with the ps3.
unless there going to charge 1000 bucks for it, which will literally kill them!
i want systems to be as good as technology today allows as much as the next guy!
no, more!
but were just not in a economy that can support that.
0 up, 1 down
PHOENIXZERO
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 1:05:47 PM
Obviously Blu-Ray drive costs have dropped dramatically since then and we know Cell is not (thankfully) being used again.
What sucks is that Sony and Microsoft are both seemingly playing it way too safe with hardware this time around. If the rumored hardware is actually legit then Epic and other developers are right and the next XBox and PS4 are both woefully underpowered for hardware that's coming out in the next 18-24 months.
0 up, 0 down
oONewcloudOo
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 9:52:51 PM
Reply
4 up, 3 down
Norrin Radd
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 10:10:23 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
CrusaderForever
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 10:10:44 PM
Reply
There is no reason why we cannot have epic stories, game play, sound and graphics all at once. Anyone who doesn't want this is just stuck in time. No matter what happens this is where we are going as an industry. Why not have the PS4 reign in this new generation with a true leap in realism.
It's this business model that tells us why:
These are rough estimates
DVD-Rom 2x 1997
DVD-Rom 4x 1998
DVD-Rom 6x 1999
DVD-Rom 8x 2000
You get the idea! We won't see photo realism until PS6 IMHO. I hope I am wrong. Also, I know it's all about the price of the hardware. Not many gamers are going to pay $1500 to get the PS4 that I want that's for sure! I would though! :)
Last edited by CrusaderForever on 5/21/2012 10:14:09 PM
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 11:57:46 PM
2 up, 1 down
Solid Fantasy
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 12:14:32 AM
6 up, 1 down
gbhsiris
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 8:03:39 PM
1 up, 0 down
PHOENIXZERO
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 1:18:27 PM
Epic is totally right and like it or not Epic does have a lot of say within the industry due to how widely popular their engine and tools are. People should be cheering on Epic lobbying for more powerful hardware.
The Avatar thing was hyperbole, we're a very long ways away from "real time Avatar graphics" when it takes a large server farm ages just to render a single minute.
Total photo realism is never going to happen in action based games with a good amount of violence.
0 up, 0 down
Killa Tequilla
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 10:20:01 PM
Reply
1 up, 1 down
godsman
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 11:38:45 PM
0 up, 1 down
tes37
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 10:41:00 PM
Reply
10 up, 3 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 4:01:03 AM
No that you would you ever hear an internal studio say anything bad about their owner, really.
4 up, 3 down
tes37
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 7:45:58 AM
2 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 11:59:40 PM
Reply
11 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 12:41:19 PM
4 up, 2 down
gbhsiris
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 8:08:41 PM
Last edited by gbhsiris on 5/22/2012 8:12:06 PM
2 up, 0 down
faraga
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 2:03:26 AM
2 up, 0 down
PHOENIXZERO
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 1:41:41 PM
Also, MGS4's native resolution was 1024x768 (sub-720p) and then upscaled to 720p and 1080p. Its frame rate also varied IIRC.
0 up, 0 down
mj445
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 12:08:24 AM
Reply
At some point they should and at some point they should not. It all depends on their strategy, i mean if they want to attract their fans(consumers) with avatar like graphics is fine is their strategy, but if their strategy is innovation , game play or best looking console with affordable price... Epic should just shut up and stop demanding,(is not like they own the company...) they could have other goals with their hardware.
but who am i kidding this days is all about(woah! look those graphics in the last of us).
0 up, 1 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 1:02:36 AM
Reply
Oh man... Please say it isn't so.
Who do I side with? Epic, of course. The consoles does not live entirely in a world of their own. They can't fall too far behind, and I MUST be able to run the next Unreal engine. There are too many great games built on it for there to be an alternative really. And I don't want to sit there with a downscaled engine while the PC world enjoys a ray tracing engine with a big fat grin on their face. No sire, won't happen. That will make me convert. Again.
/me is getting worried
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2012 1:12:14 AM
3 up, 1 down
ulsterscot
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 2:58:41 AM
Reply
Unless Sony and MS step up to the plate with high performance/reasonably priced hardware - there is the potential for a real shift in power
0 up, 0 down
Ludakriss
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 3:26:36 AM
Reply
However disappointing, it's understandable. It's all about the benjamins, people.
So I suppose the "avatar-like" real-time rendering will have to wait a Generation or two.
Damn, I'm so not looking forward to next gen, you have no idea.
Completely in agreement with Mr Cage! Let him pave a way for mature audiences in fatasy-meets-reality games...well at least I hope, for a game like Kara Demo showed. *salivating*
1 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 3:58:38 AM
0 up, 1 down
Ludakriss
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 6:30:01 AM
It is not spoiling anything. Oh, no. I'm merely worried about the current developer's input.
I simply mean. We undoubtedly will be charged a "handsome" sum of money for a console that is going to be, no doubt, incredibly powerful.
Now. The problem.
Didn't everyone praise PS3 for exact same reason? The Cell, "such sophistication, such promise, such technology. It's a POWERHOUSE!". We all read these or similar quotes in many articles throughout this gen.
At, or nearing end of this gen, we still only hear Mr Cage and the funky bunch of Naughty Dog talking up the yet "untapped" reaches of PS3's power.
So, lemme get this. We, in UK, pay £40 now for games that are at BEST!, sub-par. Why? Because, as humans, it seems we just, don't want to work too hard. Sometimes just work, period (looking at bethesda & the joys of Fallout).
So this rant, BeamBoom, is dedicated to those who, as the saying goes, have "eyes too big for their belly".
I hope you get me.
3 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 9:38:30 AM
Now what you talk about there I agree with entirely. This whole "woohoo the untapped potential" has a really sour taste in my mouth too when it has in practice meant we've been served the sub-par versions of our favorite games for practically the entire generation.
But if the "leaked info" regarding the next PS is to be believed Sony has acknowledged this as a problem too, hence the change to a more established architecture. And that is why I am as excited about the next PS as I am.
0 up, 0 down
Ludakriss
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 11:26:26 AM
Who is to say that even with the change of architecture to the new PS, there will not be a rather "unwilling" dev who's just going to sling the same tale of "it's too difficult to develop for"?
It's just this part of their/dev's work which I don't understand, that boggles as well as angers me.
If you know that you are entering through the doors of -solving problems with code, programming, the polishing, understanding the tech/architecture of a given platform- why are there still complaints that "it's TOO difficult".
Surely in this case it's only "difficult" not "too difficult" as your job entails DEALING with the given difficulties on...second-to-second bases, no?
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 1:36:35 PM
This is a complicated subject, but I'll try to explain as simple as I can:
If an architecture gets too exotic, it becomes a case of how much time you *can* put into the development and getting your code to work on that particular platform.
You may have to sink a tremendous amount of time into what basically are just a different way of handling the same stuff on that platform - something that the end user don't really notice at all. And the more time you need to spend on such architectural "exotic" differences, the less time is left in the budget to tweak and polish.
In the end it becomes a question of, "is it good *enough* now, to release on that platform?". Not cause you are lazy, not cause you are unwilling - but because you've already spent the amount of time you can on that development project just to get it to work.
From a developers point of view, the less difference between the platforms the better. And if the change of architecture with the PS4 is true I strongly believe it will mean less bugs, less sub-par versions, better use of our hardware.
And that, from us, the consumers perspective *is* a good thing. Don't believe those who try to tell you otherwise.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2012 2:34:32 PM
0 up, 0 down
Ludakriss
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 3:46:34 AM
In reality. I hope devs and gamers have this, secret link. One where the gamer isn't always bitching about the shortcomings but rather, is hopefull that a dev is indeed just trying to create a best possible product, but is limited because of the detailed issues that you have listed.
And the devs, in secret kinda understant the frustration on gamers' end, also being frustrated by those same problems that you, have listed out. Creating this, vicious circle.
Ohh the hell with it. I just miss split-screen and some truly inspiring, adventurous RPGs, damn it.
0 up, 0 down
PHOENIXZERO
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 2:28:46 PM
The whole untapped potential thing is nothing but an illusion and PR spin (like that we're only using __% of a console's total power crap) that comes from better optimization, not some actual hidden power that developers were yet to access. Games can always be further optimized (at least until the deadline) and that's a strength of having a closed platform like consoles. However optimization can only take you so far. Ease of development does make that happen faster but I'd rather developers have less problems early and still have a modest progression than struggle with hardware for years while slowly making progress over the course of its life cycle like what's happened with the PS3 and the PS2 to an extent before it.
TBH, if the rumors do turn out to be true the only console games I'll be buying are probably console exclusives and everything else on my PC with maybe an exception here and there.. I've pretty much been at that point for about a year now after I built a new PC but it may continue into the next generation with same PC and its nearly two year old mid-range GPUs that can be bought for around $100 retail.
Sony/MS going cheap next generation is great for them from a costs perspective but bad for the longevity of the coming generation IMO. I really can't see the PS4 or Next XBox lasting seven or eight years like this generation will before their successors are out. That is if they have successors. The console vs PC differences are going to be way too freaking hard to ignore when your PC from 2010 can potentially be upgraded for less of the cost of the new console and grossly out perform them.
Okay, too much rambling, let the down ratings commence! =D
1 up, 0 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 4:04:25 AM
Reply
Simply, Cage is right.
3 up, 2 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 5:40:38 AM
There's been stylized graphics since the dawn of computer gaming, and I don't see that going anywhere.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2012 5:42:37 AM
1 up, 1 down
Lawless SXE
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 6:44:01 AM
They'll remain, but we're already seeing them being thrown away in favour of realism, and that trend will likely continue until stylised graphics is a niche unto itself.
Yeah, I'm cynical about it.
1 up, 1 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 9:43:16 AM
And the advantages of being able to put more objects on screen simultaneously, add more details to them and a more advanced AI to each individual object remains also via a stylized expression. To just mention a few examples.
1 up, 0 down
Rogueagent01
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 4:12:53 AM
Reply
As long as it is easy to develop for then people like David Cage can be happy, and if they give the graphics/all around power a really good bump it also gives Epic what they are looking for.
I am looking forward to a huge jump in the overall spectrum of things. So that we can have games that have a noticable graphics leap and also have a completely larger world, be it thousands of players in a battle, a world map that is something like we had in FFVII and VIII but far more detailed and vastly larger, the ability to have truely smart AI so that single player people can experience what multiplayer has to offer without all the teenage rage in their ears, and so multi-genre games can really step it up to the next level.
I am hoping that gaming next gen has the opportunity to truely evolve into a much larger world and also gives developers the tools they need to keep costs down, so that they can go back to being creative.
5 up, 0 down
Ludakriss
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 8:23:11 AM
Being honest. You'd think with everyone praising the power of PS3, we'd already have these, LARGE, worlds that you mentioned. Fine, exclude the AI part, but the worlds...I mean, quite clearly not all people can put into gaming what they have on paper.
Look at Skyrim. Huge in size, terrible in excecution, right? And literally, this is what grinds my gears the most. It's their absolute honest response to all the bugs - "it's a huge world. So many things are happening at once".
You were creating a HUGE WORLD. You, PENIS!, shoul've got more time to plug holes, damn it!
You know?
3 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 10:05:28 AM
This is exactly why we want a more standardized architecture in our consoles, so that the developers can step right in and focus on the content instead of spending a lot of time on technicalities. Exotic solutions do have their disadvantages too.
1 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 6:47:36 AM
Reply
so doesnt that contradict what he said earlier about current hardware not being a limit?
as much as he does not want to admit it we need new hardware!
specs hopefully will change though.
the 360 originally was suppose to have half the memory it ended up with, than epic went to M$ and said hey heres what we could do if you doubled it.
M$ obviously was impressed and agreed upping the memory.
$ony and M$ would be stupid to ignore epic!
but whether they do what they say or not is another story.
take whatever they say into account, but, well, the industry is not exactly swimming in money ATM.
M$ is swimming in cash so they can afford it, but $ony, well, is suffering the biggest loss the company has EVER seen!
their stock is the lowest its EVER been!
and has not been profitable for over 4 years!
id love to see next gen systems be as much of a leap as possible but sadly thats just not going to happen, its just not financially feasible.
so many new things we could explore with new hardware such as new lighting systems, POM, osculation mapping, new types of AA, ray tracing, replacing pixels with voxels like the unlimited detail engine.
but i cant see us getting consoles powerful enough to run anything like those!
sad, PC gaming is set to have another 6+ years of being held back by outdated consoles!
oh joy!
1 up, 0 down
Underdog15
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 9:24:03 AM
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Another part of me wonders if their engine, perhaps, is simply not an efficient use of power like many PC games aren't.
And a guy like Cage is right... new ideas should be encouraged as well.
But really, let's be honest... we -REALLY- shouldn't care at all until we hear -OFFICIAL- statements about the specs of these next gen consoles.
I've seen some good looking unreal games, but none of them exactly pushed the PS3 to it's limits... you know?
And like World said... I'd like to see them make something with 1080p 60fps without screen tearing first.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 5/22/2012 9:24:39 AM
3 up, 0 down
Lotusflow3r
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 9:26:42 AM
Reply
Back when PS1, PS2 ended and PS3 was to be ushered in, more power was the side to be on as the ideas were vibrant and the more tools we had to realise them, the better!
This time around, it's ideas we need. This generation has been both fantastic and worrying....but much less daring or versatile as previous generations. We need to get back on the creative path before we should summon higher power.
Whether that happens i don't know. It could be that games are on a one way road to complete mainstream dumb down just like movies, music and books.
Hopefully we have enough of the underground developers etc to keep my gaming fire alive, though, if it does go for worst.
Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 5/22/2012 9:28:40 AM
2 up, 0 down
DeusExMachina
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 2:18:25 PM
Reply
1. There's no way we seeing PERFECT photo-realistic graphix next gen, look how long it took to accomplish in VFX in films and animations alone we've only accomplisged it in the last 2 years or so.
2. Does everyone always forget that you can't compare a console's specs to PC specs or something? A PC runs so many processes simultaneously not used for gaming and it's OS isnt tailor made for gaming. Its the reason why consoles can achieve the same graphix as PC with a fraction of the power and resources. So I''l wait an see after the consoles have been released for about 2-3 years before I judge the graphical power.
3. If by some miracle this guy speaks the truth then I think they hav gone the same route as Crytek did with the 1st Crysis. Make an engine that is ridiculously strong and runs fine at the office but release it to the public and everyone is struggling their mitts off for the next 3 years to run the game.
I hope this guy is jus blowing smoke out his ass cause I love Epic games they make some awesum software and the Unreal 3 engine was really amasing this gen and proved to be quite a game changer so I would like to see the same next gen.
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 2:57:54 PM
And a problem arise if this Unreal engine incorporates something fundamentally new - like ray tracing, a technology that is featured on the latest high end cards on the market now and that our friend Highlander has talked about for a long time already.
That is a technological generation shift. It's a before/after. And I hope the next consoles are found on the right side of that shift.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/22/2012 3:00:35 PM
1 up, 0 down
PHOENIXZERO
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 2:44:57 PM
I'm still holding out hope that the rumor isn't true but if it is then I really do hope Epic can use its influence to change MS and Sony's minds. I like how it's Epic blowing smoke and not Cliffy B (in all his douchey glory) being right.
0 up, 0 down
Akuma07
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 7:10:55 PM
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We shouldn't have a new generation until they can make them 5x more powerful then the current generation.
I am NOT forking out another $1000 AUD for a console that adds a few gimmicks.
3 up, 0 down
Crabba
Tuesday, May 22, 2012 @ 7:33:45 PM
Reply
So if Epic has seen the next-gen consoles and they're anywhere close to the rumored specs we've seen floating around (which wouldn't seem unlikely now that this guy says he's "seen" the next-gen consoles from MS & Sony, which probably means he's seen the specs), then that's worrying because those specs are terrible and won't give anyone a GOOD reason to upgrade!
That's why Cage is perfectly right, there's still so much that can be done with current consoles (especially the PS3 obviously) that there's hardly any rush to bring out the next-gen. We have still only seen ONE game this gen from Quantic Dream, there's only been one God of War, one Gran Turismo, and still even waiting for The Last Guardian, the first game from Team Ico etc, so wait a couple of years before bringing out the new consoles, especially if they can't do it RIGHT.
3 up, 0 down
Him
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 3:12:51 PM
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This is because in order to get 60 frames, the designers have to compromise the visuals, AA or the resolution compared to the common 30 frame standard. Only when you have a powerful PC as a user can you go the whole hog and have everything, res, filters, framerate the works.
This is mostly a developer trend, they want their games to look as good as possible on console, so they aim for 30FPS. Most casual console gamers might not care or note the advantages of 60 frames, and you cant see it in stills or screenshots....so they would just say one game has better graphics than the other.
0 up, 0 down
Him
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 @ 3:18:18 PM
Last edited by Him on 5/23/2012 3:21:49 PM
0 up, 1 down
TheAgingHipster
Reply
Monday, May 21, 2012 @ 9:21:43 PM
Last edited by TheAgingHipster on 5/21/2012 9:22:28 PM