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The Order: 1886 Critical Reception Shows A Changed Landscape

The critical reception for the latest PlayStation 4 exclusive isn't exactly glowing.

In fact, with a current Metacritic average of only 66, it's arguably the biggest disappointment of the new generation thus far.

But is it really? I've been scanning dozens of reviews and while there are objective points that bother me (the poor pacing, predictable story, overly intrusive QTEs, etc.), I'm noticing a lot more subjectivity than normal. And interestingly enough, that subjectivity speaks to a preference that has changed drastically in the past ten or fifteen years.

It seems the overwhelming majority of critics dock the game for being too short, too easy, and too story-centric. Some reviewers come across as if they can't sit still for more than 30 consecutive seconds without pressing buttons; they act like watching a cut-scene is some agonizing ordeal. Cut-scenes have dwindled greatly in frequency and length and now that we've returned to a game that's heavy on the cut-scenes, it just doesn't go over well. There's no doubt about the decreased attention span in the nation, but that goes well beyond gaming.

As for the too short and too easy part, there was a time in this industry's history when games were way too hard. Do we not remember that? And do we not acknowledge that gaming is now a mainstream hobby and successful titles must cater to a larger audience than ever? "Too short" is highly subjective as well. As I said yesterday, shorter games actually appeal more to me than ever before. My biggest problem with a lot of these reviews is that subjective reasoning seems to be presented as fact.

It is not a universally bad thing that a game is short, nor is it an automatic negative if the game puts a big emphasis on story. Now, if the gameplay feels tacked on and the storyline in question is better suited for another medium (like movies), that's one thing. But just because there's an emphasis on a narrative - something we're absolutely seeing less and less of - that doesn't mean it's "bad." Difficulty is also mostly irrelevant when determining a game's quality.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Had this game released a generation or two ago, I can almost guarantee the scores would be much, much higher. And not because it's "outdated" now; just because it's of a style that obviously, people don't like anymore.

Related Game(s): The Order: 1886

Tags: the order 1886, the order ps4, the order 1886 reviews

2/19/2015 9:50:35 PM Ben Dutka

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Legacy Comment System (149 posts)


Ignitus
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:16:53 PM
Reply

For what I can tell the game didn't fare well for being too short, too shallow and there is nothing to come back for after you finish it.

No multiplayer, no unlockables, no branching story lines. The developrer should hace made it longer, with an engaging story and it should hace scored higher.

Either that or release it at $20 like MGS but at $60 with this shortcomings its unforgivable

Agree with this comment 10 up, 12 down Disagree with this comment

kokoro
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:44:45 PM

Unforgivable?

Man people want way too much these days.

Agree with this comment 15 up, 6 down Disagree with this comment

matt99
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:05:28 AM

When you compare it with going to the movies, gaming is cheap. So even for a game that may only be 6-8 hours you're still getting more entertainment time for your money. Plus I'd argue that the quality of entertainment matters more.

Agree with this comment 9 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Shauneepeak
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:03:12 AM

@Matt
I can see a 2hrs movie for $5-7 or spend $60 for a 7hr game with no re-playability.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Corvo
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:21:27 PM
Reply

I read a review that said "It had good graphics. Maybe they should just go to make CGI movies since they focus on good graphics. 4/10"

Games awesome by the way. Not very far yet but, It's awesome.

Agree with this comment 9 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

FAREEZ
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:21:39 PM
Reply

Ouch!...
This game suck...

Agree with this comment 4 up, 19 down Disagree with this comment

shaytoon
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:37:52 PM

based off what? have u played it? or are u bandwagoning ignorant/biased reviews

Agree with this comment 10 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Bio
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:44:11 PM

What makes you think these reviews are ignorant/biased, shaytoon? Have YOU played it?

Agree with this comment 8 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:35:00 AM

Bio. Clearly he has not. That is his point.

There's a lot of merit to waiting to see if you like it. We've all had games that score poorly that we ended up liking, afterall.

Agree with this comment 13 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Axe99
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:14:32 AM

I've played the first hour and a half, and most of the reviews are pretty poor. It's being reviewed for what it isn't, rather than what it is. Ie, Ready at Dawn have put together something that's got a different rhythm and approach than many games these days, and most reviewers are too closed-minded to appreciate it (and yet still complain that no-one does anything different....)

So far, I'd say The Order is an 8/10, if you like story-heavy third-person shooters. If you don't like story-heavy third-person shooters, definitely avoid, but that doesn't make it a bad game - it's the same as if you don't like turn-based strategy then don't play Civilization.

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slow and smart
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:50:59 AM

@Axe99:I also played about 90 min and i fully agree with all you said!!
Some reviewers review the wrong way:review what it is and not what it isn't.


Last edited by slow and smart on 2/20/2015 4:53:05 AM

Agree with this comment 11 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Bio
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:59:15 AM

@Underdog - My point was that, without playing it, he has no basis for calling reviews biased or ignorant.

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Underdog15
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 7:20:21 AM

How do you know that? He never gave his reasons. I don't know about being biased or ignorant... probably a little harsh. But it is a lot easier for him to have an opinion on a review's score based on the reasons they give than it is for Shaytoon to have an opinion on the game itself.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/20/2015 7:21:54 AM

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wambo
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 5:13:44 AM

FAREEZ, have you actually played the game, or are you just being a fool!

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DemonNeno
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:28:33 PM
Reply

I'm taking the reviews with a grain of salt. One site hates the AI, next one up praises it. One loves the story, next says it didn't make sense. One speaks of the pace being good, next says it's completely ridiculous. One says the QTE is extremely lenient, other says it's a hit or miss.

Ironically, all of the sites that I typically consider to be the least opinionated on what should be presented as a factual review are the sites I typically enjoy for their factual take on games with a neutrality regarding their own preferences.

Edit: I'm not going to say that these sites are wrong for their scores, but will be far more vocal once I get my hands on the game.

Last edited by DemonNeno on 2/19/2015 10:34:35 PM

Agree with this comment 7 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

SaiyanSenpai
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:40:23 PM

Yeah, the reviews have been all over the place. Considering the game was the only constant in the whole equation, I have to say the reviews are the things subject to scrutiny here. Reviewers are just so full of $hit these days.

Whatever happened to objectivity?

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

DemonNeno
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:53:59 PM

It reminds me of amateur reviews in Google Play for apps and games.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Godslim
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:36:11 PM
Reply

I think it looks pretty good, the thing that does bother me is the length of it. I expect a story mode of a game to last at least 8 hours and that isnt even that much. At the end of the day even if its great quality there is a still a minimum needed for it to warrent the 50 quid spent.

Last edited by Godslim on 2/19/2015 10:37:35 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:38:57 PM

Always append at least 2 hours to the time it takes a reviewer to complete a game for a normal gamer's playing time. They rush through.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:18:28 PM

Most reviews are saying it has 8 hours. They said it can be lengthy of you spend time with the game but also say you could run through and complete it in less than 7. Most are consistent in that regard.

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SaiyanSenpai
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:36:47 PM
Reply

too short and too story-centric? Those aren't bad things at all in my book! You sir, just sold a copy. I'm picking this up!

Agree with this comment 11 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:40:21 PM

Sounds like Heavenly Sword or Uncharted 3 on that front.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

FAREEZ
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:49:30 PM

Heavenly sword and uncharted 3 have great gameplay, but the order just boring generic shooter with forgettable story...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 14 down Disagree with this comment

DIsmael85
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:42:00 PM

Fareez can I borrow your time machine right now to play through this game before tomorrow? I mean you sound like you've obviously played through it. Do you have a youtube I can follow to check out your playthrough?

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berserk
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 8:53:52 AM

" Sounds like Heavenly Sword or Uncharted 3 on that front. " Those games have twice the amount of gameplay then The order have tho .

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 6:46:44 PM

nope, same length.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:37:37 PM
Reply

I think this is the result of the hatchet job done pre-release. People got all jacked up to review it and lost their senses about objectivity.

I'm looking forward to playing it tomorrow to find out for myself. I'm kinda doubting it's an objective 6 or Sony wouldn't have let it release.

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Jawknee
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 10:53:10 PM
Reply

I liked the Verge review. He basically said(paraphrasing)it was a PS2 era game released on the PS4 and it reminded him of the great games from that era the we are now missing.

I did watch the review done by former IGN employees Colin and Greg on their new channel. While it didn't change my mind about wanting to eventually own this game, some of their complaints were a bit concerning. For instance Greg said there are many times where you'll acquire a cool weapon only to have it taken away from you a few minutes later and never given the chance to use it again. Not even after you finish the game as there is no New Game +. Another complaint was that there are chapters in the game where you're not even playing. Just cut scenes. Strange.

Last edited by Jawknee on 2/19/2015 10:55:08 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:05:50 AM

"I liked the Verge review. He basically said(paraphrasing)it was a PS2 era game released on the PS4 and it reminded him of the great games from that era the we are now missing."

Exactly what I'm talking about.

Agree with this comment 10 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

matt99
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:07:38 AM

This has me sold on the game, a ps2 era game with fantastic visuals!

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jalex
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:07:27 PM
Reply

Honestly, the mixed reviews only intrigue me further. Reading even some of the most negative reviews, I notice that I'm not finding any objective criticism. Just critiques of various design choices, most of which don't bother me.
So I think I'll be picking this up soon, at least to support a developer who dared make exactly the game they wanted to make instead of caving to boring expectations.

Agree with this comment 13 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

JDC80
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:09:04 PM
Reply

I had this on my Gamefly Q its on low availability so I can't get it, so I just might go out and buy it Saturday. As for reviews I rarely depend on someone else opinion on games and movies. If I enjoy it that's the only thing that matter. Trust me the hours I work that game is going to be a 5 to 6 week thing.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:10:54 PM
Reply

There's probably some truth in there based on some of the negative to mixed reviews. I'm not questioning that when I say what I'm about to.

But I've noticed a large change in reviews at the end of last gen into this one. Reviews are not exactly consistent, as they used to be. I said this back when Knack got reviewed as well and it had similar scores.

My issue with the idea that its because people have short attention spans or critics "come across as if they can't sit still for more than 30 consecutive seconds" is that based on Metacritic there is 20 positive, 26 mixed, and 5 negative reviews. That tells me that isnt entirely true. Not that it doesnt exist, but that for almost half the reviews it doesnt. Most of the positive reviews I read didnt speak of or in such ways. This also tells me reviewing games isn't any longer a way to let gamers know what a game has going for it. But its more how a game is to a reviewer on a more personal level. Not all. But more and more. There's no reason a game should have a 95 and a 20 from two different reviewers. You will never convince me that, some how that makes sense with out some sort of opinion an preference involved.

In a way we agree because I also don't think the 66 is really indicative of the game. I'm not saying it should be higher or lower necessarily. I'm just saying the 95 and 20 tells me something is going on. It's like they played two different games. If the graphics are good they are good. If the controls are good they are good. If bad they are bad. If the story is good as some have said then it's good. See where I'm going with this? There's more subjectivity in reviews and it's clear when one review says "attempts at storytelling are just as boring and lifeless as the action". (Metro game central: score - 40) and another "the experience is elevated by excellent storytelling, compelling characters"... (game over online: score - 85). There's preference in their and it's hard to argue based on their perceptions.

And beyond that there's plenty of reviews that praise the core mechanics. Others say it's generic and don't give it credit for being good because it's familiar, others just say it's bad.

As a consumer I havnt based a purchase off of reviews in some years for this exact reason. It's Confusing. Who do I believe? It's not exactly something I can put faith in. Being able to trust a source is fine, I'm on board with that. But seeing large discrepancies in reviews doesn't help with trust in the system.

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Voyager236
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:15:48 PM
Reply

The Order is not an innovative game, it's short and the experience doesn't stimulate to replay it more times. We already have better experiencies for this genre like Gears of War. Ben doesn't recognize negative aspects in this game saying that if it had been released in the past, it would have better scores. But he can't see that this game just follow the common sense nowadays, copying things of other games and doing something worst in comparison to them. Ben, for me you're defending The Order so enthusiastically just because is a PS4 exclusive.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:21:30 PM

I think you pretty much proved that if this game was a few years older it would have scored better. You mentioned Gears of War and then said The Order is "copying things" things in maybe Gears did and at the time scored very high because of...

I however won't wish this game was released years ago. If it's solid regardless if it copies other games and doesn't necessarily innovate, that doesn't make it less of an experience.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:08:03 AM

You've got no clue what I'm saying, nor do you have any idea what kind of score the game will get. This article isn't even in defense of The Order. It's a questioning article that takes no sides...if you could read, you'd get that.

I played all the Gears of Wars, by the way.

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Axe99
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:20:00 AM

I've played Gears of War 1 and 2, and The Order's early stages - just the gunplay bits - are a better game than either. The story is better as well, but a better story/better acting than the Gears games isn't exactly much of a highpoint.

Indeed, that actually highlights something else. The Gears games, while third-person shooters (albeit with inferior cover and navigation mechanics to The Order) are not story but action/twitch shooters, and quite repetitive. The Order focuses much more on mixing things up and story. They might be the same broad genre, but they're considerably different games. It'd be like saying "Civilization is good, so there's no need for a game like Europa Universalis".

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Voyager236
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:20:24 PM
Reply

The way you said sounds like a big conspiracy to diminish Ready at Dawn's work, but all the scores are low. It is time to recognize that the game is not one of the better experiencies for what it proposes.

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FAREEZ
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:23:34 PM

Some people just can't accept the truth when thing they like/worship turn out to be bad...

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Mog
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:14:21 AM

Well you are just so open minded aren't you FAREEZ.

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DIsmael85
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:34:46 PM
Reply

The subjectivity in most of the reviews I have read are pathetic. Folks complaining about things that bother them about games rather than be objective and actually review the game. Anyone who immediately jumps on the "this game sucks" bandwagon is immediately a fool. One for not even having played the game themselves, either renting or purchasing, and two for being a blind sheep that needs to be spoon fed decisions in life. If you folks don't know what an objective review is compared to a subjective review, please do us all a favor and use the google tool and educate yourselves. I for one am playing this game tomorrow and going to generate my own opinion based on my playthrough of the game. That's the only best way to play.

Last edited by DIsmael85 on 2/19/2015 11:36:09 PM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bigrailer19
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:46:09 PM

Yeah I agree. It's pretty pitiful that reviews are so subjective now days. I can't believe that they are supposed to be professionals in their fields of work and we get this type of outcome from them. I don't expect everyone to see everything the same, but when objectivity isn't a source of the review then it's hard to get behind.

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shaytoon
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:39:27 PM
Reply

this is exactly why i hate reading any review from anywhere for any game.

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JackDillinger89
Thursday, February 19, 2015 @ 11:57:50 PM
Reply

So much damage controlling, I own a ps4 and I have zero interest in this game. I don't have to buy it just to "support the developer" especially if the game lacks replay value and "meh" gameplay then that's the devs problem.

Now if anyone else that has a desire to buy this day 1 and don't give two flying poops about the games shortcomings there is nothing wrong with that at all also. There is better ps4 exclusive coming out and the ps4 will do just fine.

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DIsmael85
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:10:17 AM

I don't think there is much damage controlling going on as much as there is just a discussion about the way the review landscape has changed. You've expressed zero interest in the game, so I'm not sure how this adds anything to the discussion. If this were about The Order being the PS4's saving grace I'd agree with you that it's not, but that isn't the case.

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FAREEZ
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:57:47 AM

Yeah jack just wait for Bloodborne, that game will be great...

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Evil Incarnate
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:38:21 AM

@FAREEZ

Bloodborne will be a pile of suck! I'm already hearing the combat is slow and boring crap. More Demon Souls ripoff garbage. From what I've read, Dark Souls combat was much better then the combat in Bloodborne. Another step back for the new generation.

Last edited by Evil Incarnate on 2/20/2015 9:41:17 AM

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Evil Incarnate
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:54:11 AM

@JackDillinger89

I was unaware the article or anybody in the comments was asking you to buy something. I would hate to be you watching TV commercials when you take things so directed and personal.

Mercedes commercial: "Come on in and put zero down and 2% interest rate on a new CLS400"

JackDillinger89 commercial response: "God dammit! Stop trying to sell me cars! I don't know why you're trying to sell me crap I don't want".



Last edited by Evil Incarnate on 2/20/2015 10:04:29 AM

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Voyager236
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:08:46 AM
Reply

It is not just about controlling and lack of replay value. It does not have a good plot too. The game force you into many tedious situations, you are forced to do stealth actions and the characters are not constructed so well. Lack of personality in the characters, a history that take so long to develop to end abruptally. I can't see all these aspects as subjectivity. If you think that it is subjective because you liked the game, for me is OK, because tastes are always subjective. I think that when most people show negative aspects of the game and you keep saying that they are subjective and you are objective, it is time to review if it is not you that are being subjective, instead of them.

Last edited by Voyager236 on 2/20/2015 12:10:22 AM

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DIsmael85
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:12:55 AM

Oh I definitely plan to review this game. However, I am not going in playing it with any preconceived feelings toward it. The slate is clean so to speak. Each game has its goods and bads and when I play a game I start with a fresh open mind about it. Only as I am playing through it can I really begin to form an opinion about the game itself. Most people do not do that. They've already compared it to previous games they probably didn't enjoy and immediately latch onto that being the big pulsating negative going in.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:09:03 AM

You've made your point. You haven't played the game and you passed judgment based on second-hand information.

That's your business. You can stop posting over and over and saying the same thing.

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Deleted User [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:11:23 AM
Reply

You gotta love that objectivity and subjectivity become an issue ONLY when people don't agree with what's being said. The same metrics reviewers are using to give the stone cold truth on The Order 1886 are the exact same that heap universal praise on games like The Last of Us. And I also didn't see anyone complaining about the "subjective" perfect scores it got. Funny how that works.

The game is averaging a 7 which, by all accounts, means it's a good game that doesn't push itself to be great. Still worth buying and playing, in my opinion. Actually reminds of Asura's Wrath, which i thought was a damn fine experience. Hell, even this site stepped out of Subjectivetown to say that the one of the biggest drawbacks was too many movies versus actual play time which clocked in at 3 hours, even though, like The Order, those movies were interactive.

People need to just play the game and enjoy it and stop worrying if the whole gaming world isn't enthralled with 1080p muttonchops.

Last edited by n/a on 2/20/2015 12:16:33 AM

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DIsmael85
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:16:03 AM

I could argue that the only real way to agree or disagree with what another person said would be to try it for oneself. Though I understand what you are saying. Regardless of reviews and scores I was very iffy about The Last of Us before I actually sat down and played it. Regardless if Naughty Dog made it or not. I had to try it out for myself and ended up enjoying it for most of what was positively thrown out there by critics.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:44:13 AM

For me, it's not about the score being to high or to low. It's the range of scores it's getting that is unbelievable to me. How does a consumer take that into account? On top of which most of the reviews are very subjective and it shows in the scores. If there were any objectivity we would not see the critics disagreeing with eachother on all aspects of the game.

As far as TLoU the scores were much more consistent leading consumers to believe it as such score.

This game sounds more like an 8 or a 9 based on the positive reviews. Based on the negatives it sounds like a 5 or a 6. Yet there's plenty of scores below that suggesting otherwise. But its all contradicting information. That's where my problem lies. Not within the scores themselves, but in the lack of objectivity to give a professional review.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 12:45:05 AM

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Voyager236
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:14:07 AM
Reply

Yes, but I don't pay more than $15 for a game that I finish in less than 10 hours and does not stimulate me to play it more times.

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kokoro
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:12:20 AM

We get it you don't like it. Please stop.

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Mog
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:16:33 AM

I agree with kokoro here. And voyager there is a damn reply button

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 8:17:04 AM

stop saying stimulate

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DIsmael85
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:19:35 AM
Reply

For the record, before anyone assumes I'm trying to "save" The Order, when I play this game if it ends up sucking I will be sure to say it sucks. Before then I can't make a definitive opinion one way or the other as I have not played it.

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:25:46 AM
Reply

sigh. if only Knack released back in '95 =p

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:38:05 AM

No joke. Dang I wish I'd have thought of that!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 12:38:19 AM

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xenris
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:52:38 AM

If I enjoy this as much as Knack then I will be happy.

I put Knack in like super hard mode and had a blast with that game.

Yeah the design was old school but I still had fun.

Hopefully putting this in hard mode will make it more enjoyable for me.

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:02:54 AM

I'll give you $25 for it next week. My final offer. Remember that.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 2/20/2015 1:06:02 AM

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Snaaaake
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:46:52 AM

If only KZ Shadow Fall released in 2004~~~~

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Axe99
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:31:32 AM
Reply

The Order's critical reception is just another sign that gaming journalism is down the tube (in general, not a comment on this site or I wouldn't be here!) If I'd have paid any attention to the broader media response, I wouldn't have gone near it. As it was, I know the developer's history and know I enjoy the genre, and am playing it and enjoying myself. I can't think of a game that's been reviewed this badly since (or perhaps including) Heavy Rain.

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Razov
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:08:19 AM
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Hey Ben, When do you think you'll have your review up for The Order:1886?


On another note. Despite how much the length of the game bugs me (slightly) i'm still picking it up tomorrow. Want to give RaD a shot and see for myself. I can get behind single player experiences. Maybes there's been too much focus on MP these last few years.

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Snaaaake
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:23:19 AM
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At this point, I'd say you yourself be the judge.
WKC was poorly received by critics but I enjoyed it.
Demon's Souls was GOTY stuff but I hated it because it's not my cup of tea.

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___________
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:04:58 AM
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please its not a style people don't like anymore, its poorly done and does not know what it wants to be!
it wants to be a pure hollywood michael bay action flick, then the next minute your walking through a alleyway doing nothing but really slow walking for 20 minutes.
one minute really fast paced, the next slow and boring.
you want to be COD fine, you don't see COD guns blazing out one minute and the next slow and boring for a reason.
one thing i hate about allot of games these days they just can't decide what they want to be, they have the severe case of identity crisis!

not to mention, not only is it poorly done, but its also really illogical.
the way the camera works it dips down when your in cover and the black bar at the top of the screen now becomes the top of cover so how the &^%$#@@!$%^&*()(*&%$ are you suppose to see whats happening while in cover!
no, seriously, how the f*ck did that pass QA!?
hello, common sense, is anyone home!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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Beamboom
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:11:53 AM
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Based on the reviews I've read, The Order seem to have several similarities with the launch of the Vita: It's simply totally out of touch with the gaming reality of today.

This is what I've been expressed concern about earlier in regards to Sony exclusives: That they have far too much focus on the visuals, far too little on the underlying game, where they follow the beaten path from the exclusives in the past.
The Order seem to be just that: A fifteen year old game with a modern, polished hood. And that just won't work when the "landscape has changed" in the meantime, as you so elegantly put it Ben.

And when the story and universe indeed turned out to be as uninspiring and dull as the previews gave the impression of, well then you got a massive fail at hand.

Now, about that No Mans Sky... :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/20/2015 4:55:39 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 8:17:44 AM

That's what I liked about The Evil Within, it was old school.

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Beamboom
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:24:45 AM

And that's all fine and dandy but it won't push consoles, and that's what the exclusives are there for.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:57:15 AM

That's just not true. We can't use this game as a scape goat. Especially when the reviews themselves are out of touch with objectivity in mind.

If you take a better look at reviews, those that are positive (little under half) have said the story and characters were fine. The other reviews say otherwise. It's hard to form any type of conclusion from the reviews this game is getting. To me it's as of every critic reviewed a different game.

I think Ready at Dawns apology the other day about not getting to consumer what there product was, came a little late. However, with that in mind it's apparent to me, why some reviewers are praising it's story and cinematic approach and why others are not. They are simply out of touch and unable to differentiate games because more and more we are seeing subjectivity and preference creep in to reviews.

EDIT: There are very professional critics out there by the way. I'm not saying this about all of them. But the aggregate review scores are killing games now days because everyone has a voice in it.



Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 10:01:10 AM

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Beamboom
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:45:54 AM

I'm afraid don't clearly see your point, Big. What difference would the apology do if it came earlier or not? Or came at all, for that matter.

In regards to reviewing this game, it's logically much harder to rate a mid-quality game than a top/bottom quality game. That's why games with a metascore in the 50-70 range typically have the widest spread of review scores.

But the review scores for this title is, for a mid-score release, actually surprisingly focused. Around half the reviews are within a +/-10 point range to the metascore.

It's just so, so easy to call the reviews "subjective" when they are bad, and "objective" when they are good. Point is, it's tricky to rate something that's not totally bad all over, or not clearly a top notch title.

I've not read *all* the reviews - far from it - but a select handful of the sources I trust the most, and they are all quite unison: This is a game that belongs to the past. It's how we used to do it. There's even entire segments of the game that's essentially *only* cut-scenes. QTEs aplenty. It's too restricted by todays standards. Very, very scripted.
That's fair enough in itself, to each liking, but it's not a good thing for a system seller.

A system seller for the mass market must lead the way, not look back. It should be the epitome of what gaming is *today*.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/20/2015 10:54:26 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:26:41 AM

Beamboom: You're the epitome of my point. "Out of touch with gaming today" is NOT synonymous with low quality. It isn't. In fact, in many entertainment venues, things have only gone downhill in terms of quality (movies, music, and books have all taken a nosedive in the past few decades, as far as I'm concerned), so what's "in" doesn't have any bearing on quality.

My point is exactly that. The "flaws" in The Order might be more about gamers simply not liking a certain style, which should never be used to dictate a score. I'm seeing that in reviews today. I'm seeing younger kids blasting a game because they have to sit through a cut-scene, or they didn't have 100 hours of hardcore fun that only 1 in 100 consumers even care about. I'm seeing THEM being out of touch with the fact that gaming has gone full-on mainstream, and such titles might appeal to a broad spectrum of consumers.

Like I said, an emphasis on story and a linear adventure is now seen as "bad." Short and easy are seen as "bad." Seems like if you're not trying to emulate GTA or The Witcher, you're not making a game worth talking about. And THAT'S a problem.

Just because you couldn't sell an "Anna Karenina" today because people are simply far too stupid and only want sludge like "50 Shades of Gray," and just because the slugs of today fall asleep during "Citizen Kane" because there aren't any explosions or toilet jokes, doesn't make either product better than what we have now. I'm not saying The Order is great (it's not) but this is a critical point I'm making for the industry.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/20/2015 11:33:12 AM

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:27:47 AM

I don't know if they messed up in not portraying the game properly to consumers. The reason I brought up the apology was only to show that they obviously felt like they hadn't portrayed it well enough but it's too late to start saying this game isn't entirely an action game. This is clear in the reviews as some welcomed an praised the cinematic approach while obviously others did not. That's all.

I personally am not arguing it's 66 score. I have not played it. At this point it doesn't bother me. So I'm not saying the reviews are subjective because it has a low aggregate. I'm saying they are subjective because after reading them the lower scores are much more subjective than the higher scores. But its not the low scores that I care about. And your argument that it's hard to review a mid tier title isn't warranted here. Not when every review is contradicting another from low to high. As a consumer I want a straight answer and when one review says this and another says that, that's just ridiculous.

It's good you read the reviews from those sites you trust and they are consistent. But that proves my point, you have a handful that are consistent and believable to you. Then you have the outliers who are saying completely different things about the game. See where I'm going with this? If objectivity was involved you wouldn't and shouldn't see that which you proved by saying the reviews you read were consistent. So what does that make those outliers? Not consistent?! So what makes them credible? That's my point.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 11:32:05 AM

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FM23
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:41:59 AM

Beamboom speaks the truth. Objective reviews actually tell you nothing except the obvious in a very monotone way. Opinionated reviews or subjective reviews at least give you personal insight into how someone else views a game giving you the chance to agree or disagree with their pros and cons. But most objective reviews will read subjective anyway because...well....it's the authors opinion. You can easily tell if you agree or disagree with someone else's stance.

So the grade honestly doesn't matter because a game could score high, but you can find all the pros cons and vice versa. Of course this varies, but you get the point.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:56:08 AM

What's the point of a review then if your just going to disagree or agree? Especially subjective reviews? I don't look at reviews so I can agree or disagree with them.

I look for justified and factual information that would otherwise persuade me to make a purchase. Objectivity gives you that while subjectivity diminishes that by letting personal feelings creep in. I don't care about someone's opinions in a review because my tastes my be different so how would that be helpful? Which is what reviews are for.

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Evil Incarnate
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:42:13 PM

@FM23

That's the problem, I don't want their opinion on the game, I want to know what the game is on it's own merits. I don't need somebody telling me to buy it or not. I need somebody to give me similar products to compare it to, so I can decide if I think it's worth my dollar.

I compare videogame reviews to the news. I want to hear about the news, but don't care for the reporters personal opinion on the news being reported. Let me form my own opinions!

People need to stop, having to be told what to buy, and not buy. Make your decisions based on the products that you've enjoyed in the past. Obviously, if you don't like cinematic heavy games you may not enjoy The Order 1886. See how easy that is to give a comparison without being a douche.


Last edited by Evil Incarnate on 2/20/2015 12:49:04 PM

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FM23
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:02:09 PM

Well clearly I didn't get my point across. All I'm saying is all reviews are subjective no matter how objective you think you are being. Now what you get from the written review depends on you and your preference.

Reviewers are all complaining the game is too cinematic which I would never criticize. I love cutscenes and narratives so I choose to disagree when reviewers complain. Now when a reviewer says it boring and doesn't explain why...I can't disagree or agree. But when they explain why it is then I can decipher if those qualities are boring or not. Same thing applies if they praise the story and explain why. I choose to agree or disagree that that makes the story exceptional.

If a reviews were only objective we wouldn't require multiple sites releasing reviews. Just scores for gameplay, graphics, controls, pacing and replay value. I'm not defending just purely subjective user type reviews. I'm referring to objective reviews with subjective views. These reviews paint a clearer picture without be robotic.

I mean people wait for Ben's reviews because they want to read his point of view. His objective/subjective review. His review for Unity is a great example. He is a big fan of AC and his passions robs off in the review even when he mentions the negatives. It's all opinion. You choose to align with his POV or not at the end of the day no matter the score.

I hope that makes sense. Sorry...at work lol

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:48:59 PM

FM23: You really need to stop saying reviews are all subjective. Just stop.

This means that all reviews are all just opinion and as everyone has opinions, anyone can write a review. That's wrong and always has been wrong.

To say the frame rate stutters, or to say the textures or hazy, or to note the poor implementation of a gameplay mechanic (clunky and slow to respond, not well programmed, etc.), or to spot graphical imperfections like clipping, or to know the difference between amateur and professional voice performances; nothing here is subjective. None of it. Experts in the field are hired specifically because they know this stuff.

I can't write good enough movie reviews for the New York Times. I have opinions, so shouldn't I be able to? I can't produce music reviews for Rolling Stone. But if I have an opinion, according to you, I shouldn't have a problem doing that. There ARE objective aspects in any and all entertainment mediums and there ARE qualified professionals who are educated and informed on the matter, and can produce evaluations for consumers based on that knowledge.

That's what a review is. There are subjective elements as well, which are supposed to be compared with the objective aspects. For instance, I can tell you a certain story is well-written and developed but in the very next paragraph, I can tell you I don't LIKE it. Those are two different things. and I shouldn't be taking points off of a QUALITY-BASED number review just because I don't like the story. I already admitted it was a really top-notch storyline; just because I don't LIKE it has no impact on the quality of the game.

Just because I don't like RTS and find them tedious and boring, doesn't mean I'm allowed to say all the Age of Empires games are bad. I have no right to do that. And yet, according to you, if reviews are all opinions, I'm perfectly in the right if I gave such games low scores. How does that make any sense at all?

And don't even start with the AC nonsense. There are lots of games I like but aren't that great, and don't score very well here. And there are lots of games I really dislike but score high.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/20/2015 1:49:55 PM

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:54:31 PM

I get the "robotic" argument. But what's difficult in this instance is you have some reviewers disliking the cinematic nature and scoring it less while others are praising it and scoring it higher. That's purely subjective and that isn't beneficial to anyone interested in the game. This is a good example of what's happening with this game and why I'm upset with the reviews, scores aside.

This is why being objective is important. It let's the consumer know what the game contains without pushing an agenda. And to go further doesn't create confusion while on reviewer says it's good and another says it's bad. Take interest in the fact that the highest review is a 95, almost perfect and another is 20, almost not worth a dime. How do you deer what's true from that?

Now get back to work! ;)

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Beamboom
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:31:40 PM

Ben: "Out of touch with gaming today is NOT synonymous with low quality."
I agree, it's not. I don't disagree with that.
I don't agree that movies has taken a "nose dive" either, that only means you can't have seen much movies at all or at the very least seen all the wrong ones, but let's not discuss that. Bottom line is: I don't disagree.

BUT! It's still not what the market want. Like yesteryears music genre, there's a time for everything. And as a system seller, who you yourself has stated is the exclusives most important task, you *need* to be in tune with the times.
That's all I am saying.

Big:
Every reviewer out there is, luckily, different. They are individuals with individual ways of expressing themselves, individual eyes, individual ways of weighting the different elements, both of the objective and subjective kind.
You always - ALWAYS - find reviewers who disagree with the majority, or even contradict each other. That's why I think the metascore is the only really truly objective rating we got - cause it captures the consensus amongst a wide variety of reviewers.
I'll always defend that!

FM23: I'm sorry but I never said that objective reviews tells me nothing. I firmly believe that good reviewers deliver a review where the objective facts of the game play the most important role. How it is expressed differ, but the summary - who one might say the rating is described with a value - should be reasonably within each others range.

And in The Orders case, they mostly are. With a handful of off-strays.



Last edited by Beamboom on 2/20/2015 4:35:15 PM

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FM23
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:43:58 PM

@Big That's why I said read between the lines with no concern for scores because I find them all over the place. But trust me, I believe everything you're saying is right. I don't disagree.

@Ben Let me begin by saying I can say whatever I wish ;) Anywho I appreciate objective reviews with subjective qualities this is why I like your reviews. This is why I used your Unity review because it was a good example. I'm not saying reviews should be "Opinionated", but it's hard not to be subjective. Poor pacing depends on someone's preference you know. I will say a purely subjective read is not worth it and a subjective score isn't valid.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:57:07 PM

Beam how can a group of subjective reviews creating an aggregate score be anything other than subjective? A bunch of subjective reviews don't make an aggregate score objective. Nor does a handful of each! I don't get that philosophy when talking about it in regards to the topic. Now if that's what you like to see personally that's fine. I still wouldn't call it what it's not though.

If the reviews do not contradict each other and they are all consistent then I would agree. But then I'd also argue that the reviews probably are not full of subjective nature and based purely off the offerings of the game.

Yes everyone has different eyes, and ears and mouths and minds, etc... But the point of what I'm saying critics still need to be able to objectively rate a game based on its properties. If they don't like the game play but another does how is the review system helpful at all? If the storytelling is good, it's just good no other way around that. A good review will not degrade a game because they just happened to not like the way the story was told.

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FM23
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:09:58 PM

@Beam Never said objective reviews offer nothing or that you said that. If I wrote came off like that well that's my fault but yea....never said that

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:26:13 PM

FM23: What are you talking about? I was responding directly to this:

"All I'm saying is all reviews are subjective no matter how objective you think you are being."

Like I said, that's not even remotely accurate.

Beamboom: What are you saying? That quality is no longer relevant because of what consumers want? That critics shouldn't bother evaluating the quality of a product and rather focus on the saleability of a product? I mean, you can't have it both ways. We're talking about reviews here, not whether or not a game caters to the whims of today, or if it follows current trends. A review is, and can only be, about the product's quality.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/20/2015 4:27:05 PM

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Beamboom
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:43:03 PM

@Big: Because I don't believe reviews are entirely subjective. Thus, the ratings are not just based on subjective elements.

@FM23: Ok then I misunderstood you. :)

@Ben: No that's not what I say at all... I don't even understand how you can read that out of what I have written here.

But I believe in the reviewers like I always do. Also when they deliver bad news. So I believe it when they say the story is bleak, the QTEs are misused, the pacing is off beat etc. I believe it.

So yes there CAN be really good products based on the old formulas, there's *plenty* of "old school" games released today that receives great scores - but I don't believe this is one of them.

But as a SYSTEM SELLER, a game need to be in tune with the current trends. And ... Bah why do I bother. I can't express myself clearer than I already have.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/20/2015 4:46:17 PM

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:48:23 PM

Beam - Fair enough.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:24:08 PM

I guess I don't get it. Seemed like you were very clear, that a review should take into account whether or not it's a product the market "wants." I thought that's what you meant.

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FM23
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:29:27 PM

@Ben You seem to be focusing on one thing and misinterpreting me without really trying to understand what I am truly saying. So never mind and I await your "objective" review of the Order.

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 3:28:32 AM

Ben, no you are mixing up two separate thoughts.

I believe the critical reception is what it is due to the quality of the game. The complaints are many and, as far as I can tell, valid. Plus they span over several quite serious (as opposed to minor) aspects of the game.

But my main point is that I've been concerned about Sony looking too much backwards. A system exclusive like this must be in tune with the times. To release something that belongs to an era two generations ago just doesn't cut it, EVEN if the production itself is great. It's not what the market wants, so it won't push consoles. That's my *main* point.

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TrueAssassin86x
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 6:57:52 AM
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Dont care what anyone says this game reminds me of one play though of Heavy Rain and i enjoyed Heavy Rain so i cant wait to play the Order.

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berserk
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:38:22 AM

What about a second playthrought ?

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Shauneepeak
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 7:39:05 AM
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It's still scoring better than Ryse did on the X1 which if you all remember had similar issues.

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berserk
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:34:05 AM
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Can t wait to see Ben review and see if it was worth it for him trying to defend that game ( or maybe just that type of game experience ) with 4-5 articles related to it .

Last edited by berserk on 2/20/2015 9:37:13 AM

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surfer
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:55:25 AM
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I am starting to think must have exclusive games are becoming a thing of the past in order to sell consoles from a developer perspective. Look at the PS4's sales numbers in relation to their exclusive games compared to the multiplat games.

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:08:26 AM

All depends on what drives your base.
Had Nintendo released this blunder in the form of one of their beloved ip's like Mario or Zelda it'd hurt them a lot. Ps4's success has little to do with it's exclusives because they've been doing just fine with their batting average.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 2/20/2015 10:12:52 AM

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Kevin555
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:24:38 AM
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Not expecting people to read my grand wall of text (I might get a few skim readers though) but I'm going to type it out anyway because i care about everyone so much to write all this out for you :D

Well, I've played it (yes, it's out in my neck of the woods) and i think it's deserving of the lukewarm scores it's receiving. I EB rented the game this evening and got to chapter 8, unsurprisingly it didn't take long to get there and i found myself rushing through it just to see if it got any better, and imo it didn't. The setting is good, i will give it that but it's wasted on uninteresting, unlikeable characters (that i just didn't feel any emotional connection too like one would in say Uncharted) and the gameplay is just plain dull and unoriginal hidden under a pretty paint job. Where is the variety in enemies? We get to shoot soldiers in repetitive duck-and-cover shoot-outs which has been done to death and done better elsewhere and we get to stalk the odd Lycan here and there and that's it? How about more enemy variety to mix things up abit? Some more intense werewolf moments which tragically there isn't enough of. How about less cutscenes and QTE's dominating the already brief samples of gameplay as well?

Usually i am a fan of short single player games with trend-setting visuals. The Bouncer on PS2 for example was short and received lukewarm reception but atleast it added branching story paths and multiplayer mode for extra re-playability. Heavenly Sword is another example, very short but it added something fun and interesting like the sixaxis support along with a decent story and likeable characters to invest in. But The Order, i just don't find anything at all about it that makes it stand out. The gameplay is not original in any shape or form nor is it entirely fun, the characters are bland bearded old timers who are impossible to invest any emotion into and the plot is just not at all interesting imo, a shame considering the setting. I don't usually condone multiplayer in games catered for a solid single player experience but when the campaign is severely lacking as it is here would adding co-op campaign or some form of multiplayer really hurt here?

I know it's a tough pill to swallow for some, but it's a dud. It doesn't matter how good you think it is, (I liked The Bouncer and Heavenly Sword as well)commercially this is a 66 rated (and still descending) turd which was supposed to be a AAA+ exclusive, instead it's gone arse up and people are struggling to come to terms with the bad aroma it's left wafting around the forums.

Face it, three years down the line this game will only be remembered as an early console showpiece and nothing more, much like Xb1 stinker, Ryse. This is just another case of new-game-high-excitement-syndrome which will wear off after people have completed the game and the flaws you didn't notice early on before because you were so immersed by it's visuals begin seeping through after the convince-myself-it's-good fever begins to wear thin. Anyway i am looking forward to seeing what you guys give it when you review it. Make sure it's an honest score, like The Bouncer's 9/10 in which i wholeheartedly agree with btw. ;)

So for me, it's a disappointment, one in which pains me to admit. I will be returning this and waiting for the (hopefully) brilliant looking Bloodborne instead. Now make yourselves feel all warm and fuzzy inside and abuse that downvote button. :D


Last edited by Kevin555 on 2/20/2015 10:29:32 AM

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:32:03 AM

Not what people want to read right now Kevin. Needed to wait a few more days ;)

The Bouncer also had a respectable multiplayer mode. A buddy and I played that competively a few times and had good fun.

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Kevin555
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:36:49 AM

People don't have to read my dribble Temjin just putting my two cents out there for what it's worth ;)

Good to see another fan of The Bouncer too. Like you i too have very fond memories of it, especially with the multitap plugged in. I still have the game somewhere, will have to find it one of these days.

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Evil Incarnate
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:02:50 PM

Liked everything you said until your fourth paragraph...... then it turned to hot garbage. Still gave you thumb up for the first half being well said, though.

Last edited by Evil Incarnate on 2/20/2015 1:05:29 PM

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Solaire
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 10:33:21 AM
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I find it quite laughable when people complain about the subjectivity in reviews. Reviews are subjective, period. If you don't like the points he or she makes about that game, don't accuse the reviewer. That doesn't mean he's not capable or anything imho. It's just his opinion and you have to respect that, even though you might not agree.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:27:16 AM

"Reviews are subjective, period."

Stupid and wrong.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:35:03 AM

Reviews shouldn't be subjective. We are talking about a product here that's being released to the masses. It needs to be portrayed and reviewed for what it is, not how every critic sees it in their eyes.

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Voyager236
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:37:34 AM

Ben, you said that you are noticing subjectivity in The Order reviews, but you did't say what you consider objectivity. Also, you didn't comment about many negative points those reviews said about the game that I not consider subjective. I'm expecting your comments in your review.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:54:13 AM

There are objective and subjective points in any review. Poor writing is poor writing; suffering frame rate is suffering frame rate; unbalanced sound is unbalanced sound; crappy pacing is crappy pacing. These are almost entirely objective and can be spotted with a trained eye.

LIKING something or not is subjective. This isn't difficult.

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Bio
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:41:40 PM

Quality of writing isn't objective. I know tons of people who think the writing in Final Fantasy games is awesome, for example. Frankly I find it abysmal for the most part. Given that one of the points of this article is about the shifting opinion on linearity and cinematic depth, I don't see how you can say that pacing is objective, either.

Any review of any piece of entertainment, be it a book or movie or game, is a subjective conclusion based partly on objective observation. So yeah, you can make objective observations about frame rate, and sound quality, stability, quality assurance, etc., but everyone's going to have their own subjective interpretation of art style, character personalities, soundtrack, the importance of innovation, etc. based on their own personal experiences in life.

Without those impressions, reviews are worthless, the equivalent of a book report that would be the exact same from every single outlet. Just like film critics, what matters in game reviews is not that everyone else agrees with you, but that you find a writer whose tastes align with yours, so you can use their reviews as an indication concerning your own potential enjoyment of the game.

You guys should stop worrying so much about the metascore, and whether the guys you trust enjoyed the games you're interested in or not.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:55:26 PM

Quality of writing is always objective. Nobody thinks the writing in FF is great; if they do, they're wrong. It's obviously not. It's good for video games but that doesn't mean much (and by today's standards, the old scripts are less than mediocre); the script wouldn't fly in any other medium.

Everyone can have their own interpretation of anything. What's the point of a review then? The point is that a proper review consists of insights and analysis the unfamiliar and uneducated won't stumble upon themselves. How in God's name is someone's opinion more important than the facts? What do I care if Ebert LIKED a movie? I want to know why he thinks it's good or bad. I want that expert insight.

The only reason gamers don't acknowledge this is because they have egos the size of Australia and every single one of them want to believe they're qualified to be a critic. By putting the emphasis on opinion, you're opening the door to that possibility. By saying you actually have to KNOW something...well, that's just too much for the already-afflicted self-esteem.

It's nice to know how someone responds to something. That can help. But I can get that from anybody. Their own personal experiences in life? Who gives a crap? What does that have to do with the quality of a product?

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/20/2015 1:56:01 PM

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Bio
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 2:44:49 PM

You're claiming a level of objectivity that simply cannot exist when reviewing art, because the whole point of art is to provoke a personal reaction.

No one said that anyone with an opinion is qualified to be a critic, and no one said every opinion is or should be weighed equally. The reason we trusted Ebert's VERY subjective reviews is because he had the experience built up through years, and you say you want to know WHY he liked or didn't like a movie, then you say the personal life experiences that shape those opinions doesn't matter? That doesn't make sense at all.

We all interpret the world based on our experiences, that's just how life works, and that includes art. It's why rich white kids in new england who never had to work a day in their life see the world in very different ways from a poor latina girl in Los Angeles who's been working two jobs since she was 14. Their personal experiences shape their opinions on everything, and so do your experiences and mine shape how we see things.

You have to know how to write to be a critic, and you have to have an eye for the art you're covering, and knowledge in the field. No one ever disputed that, but it's just freaking silly to act like reviews aren't subjective.

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xenris
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:10:51 PM

There isn't a school you go to to become a video game reviewer though.

There are a lot of reviewers who were just gamers who started channels on youtube, and then ended up working for bigger game review sites.

If you watch Reviews on the run, you will notice that at the end of the year you have these "professionals" disagreeing about what games were amazing what games were bad etc. Sometimes they have a second opinion on a game and the reviews are vastly different.

I like to use the Souls games as an example. Some reviewers like to say that the game is objectively clunky and has poor combat, pacing, story etc. But it depends on the devs design choices, he wanted the game to play a certain way and succeeded in delivering that, whether you like the style of the game or not.

But to be honest Ben, you are making it out like reviewing games is this hard thing that you have to go to school to become good ate. I will trust the opinion or unprofessional review of someone who has been gaming since the 1980s over someone who is 20 and went to school for journalism or whatever stuff you have to take to become a "professional" reviewer, and the person in question hasn't been playing video games very long or wasn't really a gamer before he got his job reviewer games.

The reason people have big egos is because a lot of us have been playing games since Atari, and we believe we can review a games subjective and objective qualities just as good as someone at IGN.

I don't think it takes a degree in anything to be able to point out the objective elements of a game, because honestly there aren't many that are 100% objective.

Graphics for example, there are objective elements, but mostly that comes down to frame rate. You can't even use poly count as a standard anymore because low poly games can have great style BUT people might hate low poly games so how do you review that as a professional or not? You have to look at what the dev intended but still you might in your professional opinion believe that objectively they failed with their art style.

I think it is equally egotistical to think that only "professional" game reviewers are capable of accurately pointing out objective things in games, when most of the time it is common sense.

Heck I coach gymnastics and when the girls compete there are objective elements to their scores but 3 judges watch the same thing and the girl gets 3 different scores...how is that when all the judges are going off the same rules to judge? Because there is a subjective element to EVERYTHING, and art and entertainment is certainly more on the subjective side than objective although it does require both.

I think what makes a great reviewer is being able to get the whole point across, give all the details about the game the objective details, then say whether you subjectively liked them or not, and then recommend the game to the audience you think would enjoy it by using other games as a reference point.

I think they need to do away with the 10/10 system it is damaging and stupid, how do you put a number on art and entertainment?

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DIsmael85
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:27:00 PM

I read all of what you said Xenris and man, that was great. I can't argue against that and I totally agree with what you said. Non sarcasm, that was really well said.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:45:16 PM

Xenris -

I think the major point from all of this and especially from my point of view is as a "professional critic" you cannot let subjectivity rate a game. You cant. That is unprofessional. The score should come clearly and solely from being objective and honest about the game. Once subjectivity starts to degrade a review you start seeing crazy ranges of scores, for instance those found for The Order. Not only are some so subjective it should be considered an opinion piece, but they contradict what other reviewers are saying.

Now my point in all of this is, as a consuner, how does someone take that seriously? There's a high score of 95 and a low score of 20. I said it before but that's a super good game from one person and a terrible game from someone else. If that helps you decide on a game well by all means it works for you. But the point of a review is to draw to a conclusion a clear picture of the game for consumers. Seeing a wide range of scores because subjectivity played a role does anything but that. And beyond an aggregate score it can give the reader a false perception of the game. It's just not a good practice in my opinion.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 3:47:15 PM

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Bio
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:56:11 PM

Bigrailer I'm not sure why you think 'subjectivity' and 'honesty' are mutually exclusive, because they're not. Subjective doesn't mean "I have a personal agenda" or "I didn't enjoy the game so I am going to lie about it", it's just an accurate description for the fact that art is inherently personal, and it can't be reviewed sans that personal lens. If you think it's unprofessional for critics to have and express opinions, and that divisive verdicts are some indication of this intellectual dishonesty, then every critic who has ever reviewed anything is just a lying hack.

Even some of the most acclaimed works in history have their passionate advocates and detractors, because good art is provocative and provocative art is often divisive. What people value in art varies based on who they are.

To say that videogames can be reviewed from a purely objective standpoint is to either not understand what objectivity and subjectivity mean (one is not inherently good, and the other inherently bad), or to argue that there is no artistry in making games, nothing capable of stirring a personal, emotional response, nor even intending to. I don't know about you but I certainly don't feel that way about them.

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bigrailer19
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:05:02 PM

I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. I meant - by what I said - is that those are two traits I look for in a review to justify the score.

I think I'm being misunderstood too. I know subjectivity exists in most reviews. What I'm saying is unprofessional is letting subjectivity factor into a score or rating. To me that degrades a review. You cant have one reviewer saying the the writing is excellent and another saying the writing is that of a 5 year old. To me it's unprofessional and I would consider that to be dishonest if indeed the writing was good... or even bad.

So I didn't mean to make it sound like they are one in the same. I apologize for that confusion. Secondly Subjectivity comes from opinion and personal feelings. It's fine if that's in a review, it's not fine when the review defines a score based on that, to me. Objectivity is what drives a review because there's no personal influence. Just tell me about the game, give me a score, then tell me your feelings after. I'm fine with that.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/20/2015 4:09:12 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:39:57 PM

Bio: A level of objectivity absolutely can exist, and in all the examples I've already given. If the frame rate blows, it blows. It's an objective assessment that has nothing to do with opinion or "life experiences," has a significant impact on the game, and is spotted by someone who knows what he's looking at.

I say I want to know why something is good, not why someone liked it. We all respond to completely different things but quality is universal. Just because someone responds to something in a certain way doesn't at all mean that I will. On the other hand, if it's of a superior quality, judged by experts in that particular medium, I'm far more likely to give it a shot. That, right there, is one of the primary purposes of any review.

I never once said reviews aren't subjective. In fact, I specifically said a billion times that it's a mix. Your contention is that the subjective elements matter more, which I don't agree with at all, as everyone responds differently due to those experiences you're talking about. I want the insight and knowledge I can't get from Joe Schmo off the street. That's the point.

And I live in New England. I see no "rich white kids who never had to a work a day in their life." Maybe in that tiny region of Greenwich, I don't know. Aside from that, I see a lot of sh**holes around me so don't generalize.

xenris: Reviewing games is indeed hard. Reviewing anything that has a blend of objective and subjective elements is hard, and it's all the more difficult when you deal with an unappreciative, often hostile community who hates everything you say, and believes they can always do it better. That's first.

Secondly, I never mentioned anything about preferring a 20-year-old's take on a game because they went to journalism school. Me, I'll take the person who has been playing since the 80s AND has the degree. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with saying that both have valuable traits for the job in question?

And the reason people have big egos isn't always because they've been playing for a while. It's because of rampant esteem issues that have been in place all those years. You really need to stop putting "professionals" in quotations; it's just another example of yet another insult cast at someone else in the field. There are certain people who are more qualified to review games than others. You people are just going to have to accept that.

Think I can just show up and start issuing scores on your gymnastics events? The subjective element is NOT the be-all end-all and in fact, because everyone has an opinion, has no bearing on whether or not someone can be a good critics. You need skills and ability. Everyone trying to claim that just being a core gamer is all you'd ever need to review a game, or only writing ability is all you'd ever need, are missing the bigger picture.

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Bio
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 5:01:29 PM

Ben, New England is comprised of six states covering 72,000 square miles. What you personally see when you look around doesn't define the entire area. I used a pretty common generalization about two very different parts of the country to illustrate a point, and I see no problem with doing so because I really doubt anyone reading it took my meaning to be that every person in New England is a spoiled, rich white kid and every person in Los Angeles is a poverty stricken latina. If anyone did, well, that's their problem.

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xenris
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 5:33:47 PM

Valid points Ben, I got carried away with the quotations I apologize.

I agree someone who knows nothing about gymnastics isn't qualified to judge, BUT that is because there are a lot more truths and objective elements to scoring a floor routine than entertainment art. Pointed toes, straight legs, body position, these are written in bold in how they are supposed to be. Also the length of the routine and the timing etc. There isn't really such a thing as for how games are supposed to be, which is why the whole thing is a bit trickier.

My point with that was that even though every judge has the same list of things they are looking for with the athlete you still get different scores, however the scores are usually all really really close to one another.

With games though, I feel like it is the opposite because it is art right? Now there are techniques in both games, drawing and paintings, that are considered technical and well executed.

However with a game it gets a lot trickier to find solely objective things, once you get over frame rate how do you rate graphics? Low poly doesn't automatically make it bad, and neither does a high poly count. Same with soundtrack, okay the sound works, voices are there, there is no cutting out but, what if you felt the music didn't fit the scene or pacing?

For gameplay, I will bring up Dark Souls, which some people will be completely convinced that they are being objective when they say that the combats design is flawed and outdated and broken, yet the way the combat works is exactly how the designer or the artist wanted it to work. Who is right here?

That is why I believe that when you are reviewing any sort of entertainment it ends up at best being a 50/50 split between objective and subjective things about the game.

Which is why I was saying I think it is important to find a reviewer who tends to have the same subjective opinions as you do and follow their review. Which is why this is one of the sites I frequent, that's a compliment by the way.

I wasn't trying to say reviewing games didn't take effort and I know you put a lot of work into your craft. However I do think the voice of game users is very important to listen to as well.

The thing here is when you get huge gaps in review scores like the Order is getting, it is hard to not want to say "look reviews are subjective". After all how does a game get a 20 and also a 95 if not only for the different tastes of the reviewers.

@Bigrailer, True it shouldn't be completely subjective, but one reviewer might love the graphics style for a game another person might say they are amateurish. I'm not saying reviews are 100% subjective but that there are equal parts also that we really need to get rid of the 10/10 scale I don't think it is helping people. Especially when people think a 7 is a bad game.

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 5:48:54 PM

I agree 100% with Zenris. I've been saying the same thing for years. Ben, I agree that your job is hard, but because gaming is a hobby that the average person can get in to makes it WAY different than say, a car magazine reviewer. I read motor trend because I want to hear what the new Camaro or BMW concept car is like. I will never be able to afford to buy even a small fraction of the cars they test and have access to, or even get to review. I know a bit more than the average consumer when it comes to cars, but they have more experience than the majority of people when it comes to reviewing them.

Gaming on the other hand is way more affordable and accessible to the general public. I've read somewhere that the gaming industry has surpassed the film industry in terms of revenue, and that speaks volumes on how much experience people have with the medium. Like others have stated, there is no school or courses to becoming a "expert" game reviewer. What makes you that much more different than people who have been gaming since Pong? I feel as long ad you have varies gaming tastes in all sort of genres of gaming, you could make a good reviewer.

What honestly sets you apart from a guy like me is that you have more access to industry insiders and more connections in the field. I come here to read what new breaking news you have for us to indulge in. I won't go as far as Kid did and say that I have a "superior gaming mind", but just like you, I have been gaming for over 20 years...hardcore. I've played literally every genre of games, from RTS, to MMO's to the new AAA shooter. RPG's are also my favorite genre. I feel I could review a game just like you (albeit with more grammatical errors and less journalism skills).

Another thing that nobody bought up was the fact that you own/operate SONY oriented site. Given your history that I have experienced as a long time reader and once hyper-active community participater (is that a word?), its way easier for your reviews ato skew a bit more in Sony's favor. Me being a multiple console owner (just like you, given in the past you owned an xbox 360 and wii), and me not taking any sides and being non biased (even though my system of choice is Sony since they have better exclusives), I feel as if SOMETIMES I could give just as good opinions on games as you do.

I love to read your material though. I just wish sometimes, you operated a sight like IGN that could cover all gaming systems and be just as quick to point out Sony's flaws as you do pointing out Microsoft's.

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Underdog15
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 7:09:59 PM

Quality of writing is -definitely- subjective. One course in playwriting can tell you that.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 9:34:19 PM

Underdog: No, that course in playwrighting only seeks to tell you that there's no such thing as quality when it comes to writing, as all education tries to do these days. Doesn't make it right.

xenris: I don't see how there are more objective elements in a gymnastics routine at all. That's exactly my point. You're speaking from an insider view on gymnastics; from an outsider view, I see almost only the subjective because I'm not schooled in the discipline. I can see what any idiot can see (hops on landings are bad, right?) but otherwise, I tend to focus more on the artistry of the thing and how people react to it.

Most people don't really get how many objective aspects there are to a game. And THAT'S precisely the role of a critic. How does one rate graphics? It's not difficult. It's a sliding scale, of course, but it's not subjective to say the graphics in Uncharted 3 are better than the graphics in some Barbie game. That's just fact. You can LIKE the Barbie graphics more, I suppose; doesn't change the fact. Now, that's one instance where it doesn't take an expert to note the objective element, but there are others that require a lot more experience.

It's not objective to say the combat design in Dark Souls is broken or flawed. It works fine. If we're talking strictly about mechanics and function, which is the only part of that can be objectively analyzed, than it works fine. That's objectivity. Saying it's "outdated" is subjective. I'm not entirely sure people even understand the terms in question here.

PS_Wizard: It's not about specifically reviewing games. It's about being a critic in general. Did you know there's a Pulitzer Prize specifically for the field of Criticism? Do you know why that is? Because it's a skill. It's a discipline. Doesn't matter how much experience someone may have with gaming or anything else; your critical ability is a completely different thing. This is what gamers don't get and refuse to get: That their experience is NOT the only thing they need. In fact, it's secondary to the skill you actually need.

As for the site, it isn't mine and I've posted countless articles calling out Sony. It really isn't my fault that everyone chooses to conveniently ignore them.

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PS3_Wizard
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:22:41 AM

I didn't intend for you to get the impression that I thought you never become critical of Sony. I know you have, on many occasions. I guess its kind of hard to have different perspectives since you are the primary writer with no one else to help post articles since Arnold isn't ever around.

I guess IGN has it a bit easier since they have multiple journalists/reviewers. I guess I just would expect you to point out a bit more of the missteps that Sony has taken this generation...because they have made an abnormal amount of mistakes, and as both of us being long time Sony fans, we should start to worry. I honestly don't know WHY Sony has the lead they do.

I'll say again, you do a great job here at PSXE...except when you go on one of your tantrums, but lets not get into that, shall we?

*hits blunt*

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 3:45:41 AM

I'd just like to chime in to say that Ben really do have a point here, and I wish everyone could just sit down and read it slowly, cause what he describes here is reviewing as a craft. Embedded in his text is the definition between a good and a bad reviewer.

Xenris, you said "how can you put a number on art", but that's done all the time! Music and movies have been rated since like forever.

Games are a lot more technical products than a painting or a song. They are more comparable with cars or stereos. How the engine performs, the brakes, the suspensions, weight balance, handling in various curves and so forth.
AND you got the more subjective elements, how the *feel* of the car is, the sound of the doors when they close, the design of the hood, all that.

But PROFESSIONAL car reviewers are able to rate with a degree of professional experience how the newest Audi compares to the new BMW. And that's not all subjective!

All subjective reviews are what amateurs do cause they can't do anything else. They don't have the... - wait for it - professionalism.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/21/2015 3:47:27 AM

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bmart
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 9:55:54 AM

Unfortunately some reviewers are under the impression that only their opinion matters. For example I was checking out Metacritic yesterday morning and the lowest score for The Order at that time was 20. (haven't checked since) Usually I feel that scores so far out of the range of the others are not worth reading however I thought I would read this one since you don't see many scores this low and I really wanted to see what a makes a game a 20. While the article has some valid criticism's it also is very subjective as everyone has been pointing out about a lot of the reviews of this game. What makes this one particularly appalling is in reading the comments one reader mentions objectivity and the author jumps in and says it is not his job to be objective. That completely invalidates his entire review since he clearly let preconceived ideas taint his review score. (Of course the score was probably just click bait anyway since I had never been to that site before. Won't be going back either.)

Reviewers should keep in mind that just because they don't like a genre or style of gameplay that doesn't invalidate the enjoyment of others and if you can no longer make that distinction you should no longer be a reviewer and just list your piece as opinion.

Yes personal opinions are part of the review process but should not be the main driver behind the score.

That being said I have found myself using fewer and fewer sites for their reviews due to issues like this. Hence one of the reason I keep coming back here. I appreciate when a reviewer is honest about their personal bias' but is able to still give a quality review.

Sorry for the wall of text! This is my first time commenting on PSXExtreme though I have been a regular reader for several years. Finally felt it was time to come out of the shadows!

Last edited by bmart on 2/21/2015 9:59:41 AM

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xenris
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 11:09:34 AM

I don't know if Ben or Beam will read this but, the gymnastics comparison was mainly used because Judges have a hard copy of what mistakes give a deduction, what the time needs to be, etc, these are hard rules pretty much written in stone.

There is no such thing for game reviewing, which is why I think we see some wildly subjective reviews.

Anyway Ben, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but my main point still stands and we can agree to disagree that I believe that any entertainment review will fall more on the subjective side of the fence, even if only because human nature.

Beam, out of 10 how many points does the Mona Lisa get? is it a 10, 9, what do you give to it.

To say that games are require more technical prowess than a painting or music is a little....uneducated. Music is one of the most misunderstood mediums, the stuff you hear on the radio is to be frank juvenile garbage, 4 on the floor, basic basic basic. It is incredibly safe, and made so a 5 year old can understand and feel it. There is so much more technical stuff going on in underground music(my best friend is an amazing musician).

Painting is the same, there is a lot of technical stuff that can go on in a painting that the lowest common denominator wont understand or doesn't quite get how hard that technique is to get right.

Bateman does life like animals, Dalis paintings are acid trip inspired, Picassos look like ... well Picasso haha.

But they all are paintings and differ wildly from one another, someone might, even an art buff, hate Picasso and love Dali or vice verse, even though both are technically well painted. At the end of the day different strokes for different folks.

Which is why I think ALL reviewers need to say, okay this game the controls are objectively tight and responsive, graphics are solid, etc, BUT I found myself struggling to play through the game because I couldn't get invested in the characters etc. The reviewer should give personal insight into what emotions the game evoked and why they did or did not love the game.

Likewise if the game is not technically great, has some frame dips, etc they should say you know what that didn't detract from the game and I loved it anyway.

I find these parts of a review far more important, because generally speaking I can see if a game has a good frame rate, clunky controls etc.

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:54:46 PM

Yes Xenris, I fully agree in that there are objective qualitative properties of music and paintings and so forth. I've just had so many discussions with others on this where they flat out deny ANY objective qualities are involved, I just don't bother arguing for that on these art forms.

But yes I totally, 100% agree. But there's much *more* in gaming simply cause of the medium. That's where the majority of the difference is.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/21/2015 1:55:41 PM

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 9:52:36 PM

Yeah Ben, I know that. I meant to say objective. Made a mistake, is all.

And as such, the course is a university course... not a college practicum. And therefore full of measurables, tools, and lessons that prove it's objectivity. :p

I don't know what universities are like in the states, but here in Canada, undergraduate studies can be objective to a fault. I assure you my education did not make writing (essay or playwriting) easy to score highly on.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/21/2015 9:54:17 PM

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 9:55:09 PM

www.thiswillneedmoderatorapprovalandyoucanseemyresponseabovenow.com

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twinspectre
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:40:07 AM
Reply

i'm not complaining because the lenght , but because the devs wanted to make a Storydriving experience , and for me StoryDriving is like an insult , because the player will follow a rail like a bot http://imgur.com/cc5mjHx i hope this will explain to you why i don't buy cinematic experience

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 11:52:59 AM

such a handsome portrait.

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twinspectre
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 12:03:44 PM

@Temjin001 , i'm new here and i wonder if you're talking to me :)

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Temjin001
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 3:08:59 PM

Who else could it be? Who else here has a handsome portrait? Though, I see it's to proper size now =)

Last edited by Temjin001 on 2/20/2015 3:09:15 PM

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PC_Max
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 1:29:57 PM
Reply

Well, let me say this. I am not a GTA fan, never have been and possibly never will be, BUT who knows later when that could change when my gaming likes change more over time. What does that mean?

It does not mean I think GTA series sucks or is boring... it means its just not that the type of game I enjoy, right now. I watch some of the Youtube vids seeing the gameplay and such but does not make me to buy the games. Does not mean it sucks.

This industry is diverse... well for me not so much so as it use to be as it seems to be more focussed and narrow minded, but there are still a certain variety of games catering to most gamers tastes.

As for the critics weather with journalistic backgrounds, years of experience, or just self-proclaimed reviewers, I would like to think or at least hope that most gamers are intelligent enough, maybe not mature enough, to know to follow the reviews/critics with the knowledge its there opinion and its subjective. Some of them review based on just a few hours and others play all the way through.

Never let any critic or reviewer tell you what you should play and should not. They are more of an adviser but don't let them be you game purchase decision maker.

Keep playing!
Keep playing!

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Crabba
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 4:30:12 PM
Reply

I think the biggest problem with game reviews is that even on the "big" sites like IGN where they have multiple reviewers they don't match reviews to people with similar tastes in genres, and often let the FPS shooter lover review say Heavy Rain, and he's of course going to blast it to kingdom come... but why would I care what someone who obviously hates anything that's not CoD thinks about a single player adventure game??

Stuff like that happens all the time, and I can understand that here for example where there's only 1 or 2 guys reviewing games, but those big sites have 10+ different people reviewing games, many with different tastes as it should be.

Somehow that never happens with the big dogs like CoD or GTA of course, because well they are the moneymakers... but wouldn't it be fun if they would ever give a CoD review to a fan of Heavy Rain, just to give it a taste of what so many other games suffer through with reviews?

I don't believe anything close to objective game reviews is possible, or even something to strive for, just like it would be equally impossible to do objective movie reviews, but you can have someone who has at least some interest in the genre in question review a game.

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:16:45 AM

i wonder wether theres just an agenda against any game that tries to do something that doesn't tick a bunch of boxes or what is going on cos i don't trust these reviews as much as i used to i think they need to re-evaluate these review process or something or gets some objectivity in there cos this is getting stupid

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surfer
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 5:30:57 PM
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I will say; there are a lot of user reviews on Amazon from people saying they really are enjoying the game. First of all, it seems to be the most impressive visual game to date for any console...second, the majority of users are recommending to play the game on HARD difficulty to get the most out of it. Third, there are cut scenes that move the story along that story driven gamers seem to like.

Bottom line is to research what you are getting before spending money.

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Deathb4Dishonor
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 6:26:02 PM
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I'm so sick and tired of this bullcrap... This whole fiasco is reminding me of why a rarely look at reviews scores these days... How is anyone suppose to decide if they should buy the damn game when these sites all give mixed reviews... And it pisses me off even more when a lot of these sites give Wolfenstein a 8.0 score when it linear, generic, and has no replay value and then go and gives the The Order a 6.0 when they its the same... So stupid smh... Not saying Wolfenstein was a bad game bc I enjoyed just stating what hypocrites these ppl doing reviews can be

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:13:50 AM

yeah thats a good point a FPS gets and 8 and TPS gets a 6 and they are the same type of features

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SirLoin of Beef
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 7:55:26 PM
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I'm about an hour into the game and, so far, I'm liking it. I am, however, disappointed in the letterbox presentation during the whole thing.

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Voyager236
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 8:10:05 PM
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For all of you who are in doubt about get or not The Order, this video clarifies some negative aspects of the game in a fun way:

youtube.com/watch?v=FV-u5tvQC34

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:10:27 AM

its is funny but not really for reasons you mention its the people that make it funny not the subtitles for someones agenda

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FAREEZ
Friday, February 20, 2015 @ 8:47:31 PM
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Well, this comments section escalated quickly...

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 1:03:59 AM
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i think it sounds like the sorta thing i was expecting to hear which i guess is in lines with where you were going with ur line of thought. i'm not saying its bad till i play it myself which may not be awhile yet. that and people have attention spans of a fly these days not mention everything people were wingeing about honestly it just gets up my nose i almost can't be bothered any somethimes. but i come from a different generation and i'm a different person to most out there that are complaining too, i've always been more of a single player gamer that also enjoys some multiplayer

happy gaming

Last edited by Rachet_JC_FTW on 2/21/2015 1:06:34 AM

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mikedifr
Saturday, February 21, 2015 @ 8:44:40 PM
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I think the game is easily an 8. We all know a lot of these sites would be giving a completely different review if it was a gears sequel wih the same third person shooting mechanics....

Like Ben said....shorter time appeals to me. I don't have time to put 30+hours into game anymore. Who cares if the mechanics are "old" as long as they are done well....why is it ok with Indy platformers, and Mario and Zelda, and the telltale games adventure games.....old mechanics, still good.

Graphics are phenomenal. Action is good. I am on chapter IV and enjoying the story so far. Yes, as some reviews have said....sometimes you feel like you are along for the ride, but that is the point. It's heavy rain meets a third person shooter/platformers.... Review it for what it is.....If you don't like how that sounds you, prob won't like this. But if you like "old fashioned" action games...with a cinematic experience thrown in....You might enjoy it.

Either way....most of the reviews I have read, good or bad score, have been awful

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Deathb4Dishonor
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 3:40:33 AM

I wouldn't mind a 5 or 6 hour game as long as the story is good and the gameplay is fun

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trumpetmon65
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 12:30:13 PM
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One criticism I've seen that I would consider fair is that the game offers a lot of plot points that never resolve as if it was expected to have a sequel. Had the story been made more complete, then possibly the other less popular aspects would have been over looked. With all of that said, I have seen quite a few reviews spend too much time with what the game isn't instead of focusing on what it is.

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VictorDeLeon
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 2:36:27 PM
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The reviews I read on sites fail because of that, subjectivity ; I almost never find observations, details of game mechanics, only one person giving her feelings - not in a professional critic way, just spew what they have on the heart wuthout caring for the game itself, or how it's good or different from others.
Oh yes, and another element that spoils the interest of reviews is they base their opinion comparing to big name games of a genre "shooting is not as good as Halo", "driving is not as good as Gran turismo" : the game you're reviewing is neither of those games so don't talk about them. And of course, the worst thing is they use their perception of what's trendy to boost or kil a game : hey, this month gamers like action games with RPG elements, let's give this game an 8".
Best game I bought in 2014 is Shadow of Mordor, I didn't read ANY review about it and loved it.

Last edited by VictorDeLeon on 2/22/2015 2:40:27 PM

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Nerull
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 3:34:51 PM
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I had canceled my preorder to wait for a price drop, then the next day Amazon gives out a $20 credit if you by the Order. They even sent me the Knight's Arsenal for my canceled preorder anyway.

Even I'll admit that I'm mostly getting it because the ps4 hasn't had an exclusive come out in quite a while, other than Driveclub which failed miserably from what I heard.
The cutscenes aren't the problem though. An abrupt ending teasing a sequel, and level design that discourages doing anything but sticking to cover, among other things, are more the problem.

I still hope it eventually gets a sequel to build on the foundation.

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darksidebarji
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 4:29:23 PM
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I always read never responded just registered actually haha. This game was fun I got the plat trophy for it in about a day and half of playing. Yes is was short and yes I probably won't pick it up and play it again because I have to many jrpg's to play in my backlog and beat it on hard first time through. But the story was different and good i'll totally recommend it to my cousin and brother who'll end up borrowing my game to play it. This game is totally in the style of playable movie/tv mini series so if you don't want story and just wanna mash buttons this probably isn't for you.

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redman479
Sunday, February 22, 2015 @ 5:15:16 PM
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I've loved every minute of it! I think it's a solid effort for RAD coming from the PSP to the PS4!

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