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How Come Nobody Complained About The Long Hardline Cut-Scenes?

All we should ask of our critics is that they be consistent.

That being said, I have to wonder: Why did I see very few complaints concerning the length of the cut-scenes in Battlefield: Hardline? Some of them are pretty long and they're definitely frequent.

The reason I ask is because The Order: 1886 got ceaseless flak for this very reason. Some idiots issued that "watching more than playing" ridiculousness, which always gets my goat. I'm just wondering where they all are for the latest Battlefield. I've played both and I'm willing to bet that there are more non-interactive sequences in Hardline than there are in The Order: 1886. I'm not sure any one sequence in Visceral's game is longer than one of the longest segments in Ready at Dawn's game, but they're certainly comparable.

And yeah, The Order looked better and featured acting that was just as good, if not better. So, what's the deal? Where are all the mocking morons now? Is it because there was just more dialogue in one, and people simply need to be titillated every five seconds or they start to feel bored? Maybe that's it. Or maybe it's just because The Order was too linear...oh, wait, pretty sure Hardline was pretty damn linear, too.

I'd just love an explanation for this obvious double standard. But I imagine I won't get one.

Related Game(s): Battlefield: Hardline, The Order: 1886

Tags: battlefield hardline, the order 1886, gaming culture

3/25/2015 9:50:48 PM Ben Dutka

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Breadlover
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:06:23 PM
Reply

i know right?! This sort of thing really grinds my gears! (rage)

I would really hate to think that all the ridiculous reviews for The Order: 1886 were paid by some rich bastard from competitors...

...but I wouldn't really be surprised if that was the case.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Oxvial
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:46:11 PM

I doubt that, if anything MS would use that money to make Bloodborne get bad reviews, the order was only a decent game that needed to be charged at 39.99 to get less hate.

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souljah92
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:06:28 PM

Was it a good long cutscene or a boring type cutscene?

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Axe99
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:25:39 AM

I wouldn't go for the conspiracy theories, more that it was a bunch of sheepish gaming writers following trends rather than sticking to their principles (if, indeed, they had principles to begin with). It was 'cool' to hate on the order, so it got hated on. BF:Hardline isn't nearly as cool to hate on, so it's getting let off the hook.

Bloodborne, on the other hand, is looking cool to support, and getting a lot of positive press.

So I wouldn't put it down to conspiracy theories or anti-Sony bias, just silly groupthink.

Last edited by Axe99 on 3/26/2015 3:26:17 AM

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SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 7:46:51 AM

Microsoft paid Axe99 to tell others to not go for conspiracy theories, I bet.

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souljah92
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:16:00 PM

Axe99... 99 upside down is 66, posted march 26, axe is 3 letters, add to the 6 in 26 its 29, another 9, 666, i took a large poop this morning, Illuminutsack confirmed

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Axe99
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 6:07:16 PM

lol - hey, I needed to pay for my new shirt somehow or other, and Microsoft were there with the money ;). Don't get me wrong, I do think the 'weight' MS built up (and likely still maintains to a degree through good marketing) with the US-centric gaming press does colour their perceptions which can feed into the 'flavour' of coverage, but it's unconscious emotional bias, rather than a conspiracy, per se. Marketers do it all the time.

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Deadman
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:08:48 PM
Reply

The Order sucked dude get over it!

The reviews for The Order, WERE ALL CONSISTENT! IT SUCKED! everyone said the exact same thing.

The thought of playing that game is physically nauseating.

Agree with this comment 11 up, 20 down Disagree with this comment

Deadman
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:14:55 PM

Where ara all the click bait bad reviews for Bloodborne?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:15:36 PM

Uh...The Order's reviews were anything but consistent.

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Deadman
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:26:13 PM

The majority say how mediocre it is!

Which it f'ng is! On Metacritic 39 positive vs 49 mediocre say it all.

I can understand if it were polarizing, half liked it, half didn't but it is clear cut.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:42:47 PM

No dude, the scores are all over the place.

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:44:01 PM

So you never played it. Got it. It is a good game, clearly you believe a lot of these "reviews" that complain and yet talk nothing about the gameplay or story.

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Deadman
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:54:14 PM

I played the game (The Order, not Hardline), and I can say from experience how awful it is.

If the game had long cut scenes, maybe I wouldn't have minded.

Why did it make me walk around that big a** table to just trigger the next one? Why after that one, did it allow the player to walk around a corner, to an elevator to trigger the next one? It's a non game, if you like this type of handholdong, good for you.


Last edited by Deadman on 3/25/2015 10:56:15 PM

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:01:47 PM

Oh no I can't sit for "long" cutscenes boo hoo. Really? Long cutscenes? Those were short as hell, a non game by your definition would be heavy rain and the walking dead. Guess all you play are cod and whatever pew pew games there are.

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:07:25 PM

For your misinformation, taking stuff from metacritic is ridiculous. You know metacritic has been removing troll reviews. From actual reviewers, not user reviews. Always goes the same for any first party game, sony gets the worst of it all the time. This is nothing new.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:58:58 PM

No it didn't. The Order was great.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:26:49 AM

Twitch gamer alert.

Ignore the stupidity everyone.

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mk ultra
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:46:38 AM

You wouldn't sound half as ridiculous Deadman, if what you were saying were mere opinions. But, your screaming at the top of your lungs things that are simply not true.

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 5:15:19 AM

Oh no, I didn't like The Order I must be a twitch gamer who only plays Call of Duty. Lol

If Sony exclusives are the victim of these bad reviews then how is Bloodborne nailing it across the board?

If The Order was a victim to bad reviews for the sake of site hits, why is that not being mirrored for Bloodborne?

Come on it's not 2009 anymore

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 5:53:49 AM

Having not played the game, I'm inclined to believe Deadmans core points here.

The arguments for bad reviews being "click bait" or "because they are Sony exclusives" must die. That's just annoying.

The scores for The Order were really not that all over the place for being a release of that metascore. It's purely mathematical logic that a mediocre game receives a wider range of ratings than a pure rotten or top stellar release. And for a mediocre release The Order had in fact a quite consistent scoreboard. The vast majority of the scores are found within a quite focused span.

Last edited by Beamboom on 3/26/2015 5:54:35 AM

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frostface
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 7:01:53 AM

You do know Ben that when someone disagrees with your opinion on a games quality, it doesn't justify you trying to rally your brown nose brigade to arms with insulting comments like ...

" Twitch gamer alert.

Ignore the stupidity everyone."

( Yes I get the hypocrisy of my comment referring to your followers as the Brown Nose Brigade, so feel free to scrutinize my response in equal proportions to my scrutiny of your comment. But the point is it's not how to discuss opposing views bringing in insults when you've run out of reasonable backed up facts for your side of the argument. You need to work on your communication skills. You're supposed to be Editor in Chief, quit acting like a spoiled fanboy ).

I'm thrilled you and others on the site love The Order enough to defend it. I hope you guys get a sequel and like the Assassins Creed franchise at the beginning, get an excellent first sequel to an okay but not great first game.


Hardline doesn't fall under the same hammer as The Order because unlike the latter, it's real focus for most gamers will be the competitive MP that The Order doesn't offer. If it (Hardline) was a primarily SP game, I'm sure if would fall under the same criticism.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 9:22:20 AM

What frosty says is basically what I hope for from Watchdogs and Remember Me, as well.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 9:45:25 AM

The Order was great for me, it was AAA quality. It made an impression on me I haven't had in gaming before in 25 years. It had few reasonable technical gripes and executed its gameplay well. Many reviews went subjective and were affected be pre-hype hate filled hatchet jobs, that's the only way you get a 5. People keep using the word Mediocre. That's wrong, FUSE was Mediocre. Dark Void was Mediocre. The Order was not a mediocre production by any measure except that some people didn't like gameplay from 3-4 years ago inside it and they let that guide them. Honestly, cut scenes, linearity and quicktime events don't a mediocre game make. Low quality production does. There was none of that here.

If you haven't played it with a fair mind start to finish and past the credits then you have nothing to say about the matter.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/26/2015 9:51:45 AM

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:19:03 AM

Replace "mediocre" with "mid-rage" then if you like World. That's what I mean. Games that land on a mid-range score (and mid-range/mediocre by todays practise is a meta of 60-70) do by pure logic tend to have a much wider spread than the top and bottom releases, and from that perspective The Order really is not to be defined as "all over the place".
That's really all I am saying.


Last edited by Beamboom on 3/26/2015 10:19:59 AM

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:21:27 AM

So we now need to meet criteria to be able to comment on games? Lol

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:49:36 AM

Mhhhh loved me some Order 1886.

Though I do believe I'm a biased PS fan these days!
Love' n it too!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:03:02 AM

Deadman: Yeah, the criteria is: Play it before your open your mouth.

frostface: Blah blah blah, "oh, someone disagrees with Ben so that's why he insulted him." Getting boring. Someone screaming that The Order blows without every playing it warranted a response; again, has nothing to do with disagreement and never does.

And by the way, you defending someone who's judging a game based on zero experience with it is just dumb. If it was me doing it, you'd jump down my throat. All this proves is your bias against me, despite all your screaming about how it doesn't exist. 'rolling eyes'

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/26/2015 11:11:25 AM

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:24:02 AM

For the record I have played the game in question. I even sited examples of the problems I personally had with the games cut scene frequency.

If the criteria is play the game before opening your mouth, then how is it ok for World to say anything negative against Bloodborne having never played. And admittedly not even going to try it? Pots, kettles, and all that jazz.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:41:24 AM

Because World doesn't act like a dick when he says it.

If you can't determine the difference, you've got bigger problems.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:51:06 AM

All I said about Bloodborne was I wish I could join in the fun with everyone else but those games aren't the kind I can play because of how they work. So yeah I can comment on how they work, because there are other examples. It's a Souls game, I know what to expect and I never once said it was bad or mediocre or whatever.

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 12:07:42 PM

My bad World I took a comment of yours later on here the wrong way maybe. Bloodborne is really cool though. Recommend you at least try it, if there are still places to rent games from.

@Ben, The Order has been out for a month and your still harping on the fact that the game was negatively criticized. And how it's always x, y, and z's fault that the game faired so poorly.

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frostface
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:43:59 PM

Ben,as Deadman has stated, he has played the game. You're obviously of the mind that anyone who disagrees with you hasn't, so taking you serious is getting harder to do.

By all means dismiss my comments, I'm not the one making fabricated assumptions out of thin air to back up fanboy reactions.

I can pretty much guarantee had The Order been Multi-platform, you would have dropped this a long time ago. We get it, you love your Playstation exclusive, well done. I'm genuinely happy for you. Just take the tin foil hat off though that the gaming industry is biased against Sony because as the reviews for Bloodborne show, reviewers are stoked to be playing the game on their PS4's.There is no conspiracy. And you don't need to be constantly on the offensive when other people disagree with you.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:00:51 PM

I don't really have an opinion on The Order, because I've never played it. I will, though, just to see what the hubbub is all about.

I will say, though, that I've determined I need to figure it out for myself, though. Reviews out there are way too polarized. And I've read both positive, neutral, and negative reviews from different sources... some well written, but most really terrible, which is depressing. And the community at large has been even less reliable.

Way too many reviewers, both positive and negative about the game, didn't seem to justify their scores with what they wrote. It makes me think that this game is too different in general for most people to know how to review it. Combine that with completely polarizing opinions from the community, and it really seems like a take-it-or-leave-it kind of title. So, I'll just look into it myself and draw my own conclusions.

I'm good with that.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:52:00 PM

I have not played The Order or Hardline. And I don't expect to soon. But from the perspective of outside looking in, The Orders reviews were all over the place. If you are stuck looking at the scores on Metacritic - Despite they are in fact all over, top to bottom - and not reading the reviews then I'd say you can't quite possibly understand the fact that not only are they contradicting - from top to bottom - they are also not consistent. You cant possibly take the reviews serious when 5 reviewers are saying an aspect is executed great and 5 others are saying it's executed poorly.

As far as Hardline goes I'd suspect that most of the cut scenes are highly entertaining, explosive and energetic. Where I could see The orders being a little milder for the most part. This probably has a lot to do with it, which Ben pointed out in his last couple paragraphs.

Anyways I'm only saying this because some people appear to show up to simply jump on the hate wagon, and for arguments sake.

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Oxvial
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:20:45 PM
Reply

Its bad when the game it's so short only offers a sp campaign and a big part of it are cinemas.

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:44:21 PM

You haven't played it either. So who are you to judge.

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EMax
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:47:23 PM

Since when is a short game indicative of the game's quality.

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Oxvial
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:48:51 PM

I You Tube it just like Ashura Wrath a game I'm not gonna spend a dollar on it but hey as interactive movies they where entertaining to watch.

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Temjin001
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:50:44 PM

Epic fail Oxvial.

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Oxvial
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:54:35 PM

Epic fail? come on Tem, it's my opinion wheres the epic fail thing on it?

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Banky A
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:39:57 PM

Because it's a video game.

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cLoudou
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 12:36:44 AM

People who judge a game by watching someone else play, ...and then complain about how short it is...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:27:49 AM

You're not allowed an opinion if you didn't play it. And saying it's "bad" because of your own erroneous viewpoint is wrong. Not subjective, just stupid and wrong.

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Oxvial
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:31:14 AM

Funny but a post above I said it's imo a decent game xD, you people have some kind of fixation with The Order, hope it not gonna be a forever thing.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:34:01 AM

Oxvial, their issue isn't with whether or not you think it's a good game. Their issue with you is about your "experience" with the game being essentially zero, yet behaving like you know all about it.

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Oxvial
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:44:53 AM

There's nothing in the Order gameplay that it's ovni to me, also love how suddenly fans of this game are bringing that when I remember in this place was cool to hate CoD calling it overrated when those people didn't buy those games.

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karneli lll
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:10:06 AM

I think Oxvial was smart not playing it. I'm pretty sure if this game was multiplat it wouldn't be having so many guardians

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DemonNeno
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:23:59 PM
Reply

That's a great question! Clearly a reason why very select sites aren't opinionated to the point where hypocrisy runs rampant.

I'd expect it from the visitors. Like Deadman. Obviously hasn't a clue about what he's jabbering about.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:43:33 PM
Reply

Cuz FPS

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Corvo
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 10:56:05 PM
Reply

If it was called "Hardline" and it was the exact same game, with slightly different gameplay, not only would it have not sold very well, it would have been bashed.

The Order was new, and was a Playstation exclusive. It was destined to be ripped a new one, even though people not in the media loved the game. Seriously no one will say "Yeah dude that game f-ing sucked." Ask someone who doesn't know wtf they are talking about and have a parrot act, and oh yeah. They will bash the game not even having played the game to begin with.

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PSTan
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:19:37 PM
Reply

Considering SP isn't the primary focus of a Battlefield game, I guess. People still thought Hardline's single player was mediocre... most military shooters have average campaigns.

I'm assuming Hardline's cutscenes are skippable.

Two different games, two different tones.

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Oxvial
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:54:28 PM

This, it's weird how the Order only legacy gonna be people ranting on other games that share a similarity but actually are not like The Order at all e_é

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Snaaaake
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:34:35 PM
Reply

Ain't it because 1886's length wasn't worth $60?
Not to mention it doesn't have multiplayer.
Hardline wasn't focus on single player and it also have multiplayer so the $60 price tag is worth it.

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:50:55 PM
Reply

Because a reviewer/critic can destroy years of hard work and millions of dollars with little to no consequence.

I am continually shocked by the lack of professional organization to monitor this type of inconsistent behavior.

If video game reviewers and websites obtained a license or certificate for reviewing games it would not only bring trust from the readers, it would bring about a sense of liability and community with your peers.

Just thinking out loud.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:57:13 PM

There should be a certificate. I mean at this point. As a reviewer you should be able to demonstrate that you can subjectively separate details about a game.

If you can't then to bad. And that's where we are at. There's very few websites being allowed on Metacritic that can demonstrate any credibility.

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schillah
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:55:52 PM
Reply

I think because most are on multiplayer. Battlefield stories haven't really been that interesting with the exception of Bad Company...in my opinion

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Jawknee
Wednesday, March 25, 2015 @ 11:57:53 PM
Reply

Because this generation of gamers are idiots.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 9:46:40 AM

They must be if top grade tech and deep stories bores them and super hard games that treat them like idiots are super fun.

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:08:13 AM

Not all of them.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 12:33:34 AM
Reply

I don't see how people can complain about cutscenes nowadays when Xenosaga had at least one that lasted around 45 minutes or so.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:28:52 AM

Everyone forgets that. And that was hardly the norm even then; most cut-scenes were only a few minutes.

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Oxvial
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:35:43 AM

Different times and genre of games also if Xenosaga was a 5-6 hours with that 45 min cinema included in the length of course people would complain.

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karneli lll
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:06:16 AM

No one complained about MGS despite super long cutscenes

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 5:56:21 AM

Karneli, quite the contrary: Many have indeed done so.

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Deleted User
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 6:56:37 AM

There were complaints about Xenosaga's cutscene length as well, especially the first few hours of the first game. But as Oxvial rightly stated, the gameplay far outweighed it, which is why it was a minor quibble instead of damnation. So confused on why this is so out of the realm of understanding. Why is The Order even in the same conversation as titans like Xenosaga and Metal Gear Solid. Its like saying that the half assed companion AI and the fact that I could reach through solid objects in The Last of Us means the game is on the same level as another that may share a common weakness, though the latter games has none of TLoU's sstrengths.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:04:46 AM

Why is The Order in the same conversation as MGS? Uh...because they're both extremely similar, linear-driven adventures that have been accused of "watching more than playing?"

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:06:41 AM

Xenosaga was a JRPG, you can't compare them.
People expect long cut-scenes from JRPGs.

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shaytoon
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 12:39:14 AM
Reply

shitty games like battlefield need long cut scenes to make the sp seem "long". heres 4 hrs of cut scenes and 2 hrs of actual gameplay.

on a side note, bloodborne is frckn hard and so damn fun.

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karneli lll
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:04:51 AM

That actually applies to The Order

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shaytoon
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:13:53 AM

like ben said, the order was actually a good game, esp in terms of graphics.

bf we knew exactly what to expect, just a copy/paste version of its predecessors.

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smileys_007
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:44:22 AM
Reply

@Ben Dutka:

probably the mocking morons are those who are xbox one fanboys. they mocked the The order because it is a ps4 exclusive and not battlefield because it is available to xbox.

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 5:58:58 AM

Yeah, the damn fanboys. Gotta hate'em.

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 4:32:02 PM

I do agree to that. The sheer fact Order had the appearance of being Sony's exclusive version of Gears of War likely caused some XO fanboy hate.

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karneli lll
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:03:28 AM
Reply

Maybe because Battlefield doesn't force you to walk like a snail, then force you to watch a very boring cutscene,and then walk another mile in a snail's shoes only to suffer through another boring cutscene.

Honestly, Battlefield's cutscenes combined may be just a tad shorter than the entire Order game.

Also, how can you have a story that makes COD's plot look like Oscar material.

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Kevin555
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:08:19 AM
Reply

I played The Order in it's entirety which means i can form an opinion. It's average. It was PS4's Ryse imo, stunning visuals painted over an overall shallow experience. Excluding the visuals and setting there is honestly nothing about the game that stands out imo. Bloodborne on the other hand....different beast altogether.

Battlefield here also looks average, i won't reserve judgement though because i have zero interest in playing it anyway :D



Last edited by Kevin555 on 3/26/2015 3:09:39 AM

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 4:51:54 PM

The audio, as in music, effects, and acting was great from my Sony wireless headset. That deserves props. It's gunplay and control are all of a high degree of quality no matter what game it's being compared to.

I liked the tightly bound narrative driven design.
It meant for paying attention to a story that I liked. Liked even better the second time through.
Aside from the audio logs the game never requires you to stop to pull up a menu and take yourself away from it's world. You can stayed immersed in it the moment you start it. Yes it has cutscenes and walking down a path while narrative points happen. I didn't have a problem with that. The whole thing looked and felt so captivating it was easy to let it direct my attention, a characteristic of a game that fuses cinema with interaction. It felt refreshing to me.

And I hope the sequel doesn't change this format.
I would like to see some improvements of course.
I'd like to see some better stealth aspects in the future. Greater enemy variety.
Though I wish sometimes it'd be less brutal in dealing out death because it doesn't seem entirely characteristic of who you are.
We're like the Knights of the Round, protecting order and peace. Yet -SPOILER- here I am sneaking into Lord Hastings mansion violently murdering human guards out in the rain by plunging my massive blade down their throats. I don't think the script even intended on that level of violence.
In cutscene dialogue following the sneak in, Lord Hastings refers to our work as "incapacitating a few of his guards." I chuckled to myself when he said that, thinking, "ummm. yea, I did more than incapacitate a few of them"

Anyway, it's not a game for everyone but it is a game for some people. The critical response clearly shows that. To one person it may be a highly memorable and a likable and unique experience, to another it may be this boring, short, cutscene laden, waste of time mired in mediocrity while looking nice. But one way or another the matter is subjective to a high degree. Yes, we can all agree about some things easily, like how something looks and sounds etc. But other things are less identifiable and relate-able, or even likeable. Order invoked a lot of that. This game sits proudly on my shelf.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 3/26/2015 4:59:49 PM

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Deleted User
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:35:01 AM
Reply

If only this topic was as easily resolved as the game's mediocre, lame-ass boss fights, we could have moved on long ago.

Game isn't even worth defending. The critic's got it right. It's a beautiful game that has you spending more time walking slowly, watching cutscenes, unnecessary QTE to try and mask the fact you are watching yet another cutscene, reading about events, and picking up mundane items than the actually doing anything worthwhile. Even then, there was nothing about the shooting that was that great or new anyway.

Just because I find a game great doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. There are a ton of games I enjoyed that didn't click with the masses. I thought Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands was great from beginning to end I really enjoyed Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days. Deadly Premonition, mini Ninjas, Ninja Gaiden 3, Splatterhouse, Dead to Rights: Retribution, Nier, Infinite Undiscovery. I could go on forever. But as with The Order, those games were missing that little extra for critics that could make the shortcomings less apparent. In the Order's case, it lacks compelling gameplay to go along with its phenomenal graphics. That's fact.



Last edited by n/a on 3/26/2015 3:36:48 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:05:25 AM

Have you even bought a PS4 yet?

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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 12:10:36 PM

Ben, your "homie" Underdog doesn't have a PS4 last time I checked. Xbox One either...

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Deleted User
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:55:07 PM

Well, to date, I have purchased 2 PS4s and if I keep enjoying Bloodborne and still have an itch to play it by the time my daughter finishes Ori on my X1, I'll have to make it three very soon.

Though I don't see what that has to do with The Order's mediocrity...we get it, you love movie games that take very little skill and brain power to finish. More cutscenes, the better! Less gameplay, the better! Still, a mediocre game. Anyone with any ability to appreciate gameplay nuances beyond graphics and cutscenes can see that.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:55:16 PM

Do people still say "homie"?

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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:28:02 PM

Damn sure do Underdog...

But you'd know that if you attempted to step out the house atleast once a week and/or stay off gaming forums long enough to visit hip-hop news sites.

It was a nice attempt to try to clown me, but sadly its a swing and a miss for you.

Next time i'll just say "bro" or dude.

*middle finger*

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bigrailer19
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:54:04 PM

I get called "homie" frequently and I'm not sure why.

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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 5:23:31 PM

Lol Bigrailer

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AMERICANSHEEPLE
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 7:27:18 PM

@PS3_Wizard. I told you "homie" Underdog15 to the rescue. It's like clockwork every time. Lol.

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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 9:41:14 PM

I know AmericanSheeple...known that for years now.

Still waiting for the day I see him disagree with ANYTHING Ben says. Its sad really...I've never seen anyone agree with literally everything someone says.

I'm a Sony fan, but some of the fellow long time readers I see on this site are just blindly following everything Sony does and it sickens me. The Order is a good game, but it definitely doesn't deserve all the defense it's getting from here. It barely hit the good enough mark in my book. I'm a bit upset I bought it full price.





Last edited by PS3_Wizard on 3/26/2015 9:41:59 PM

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Underdog15
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 12:34:57 AM

wurd, g-unit homeslice. Wurd up to all your mothers. Each and every one! See? I'm down with the diggity. And I don't have any interest in hip hop or whatever new twerking moves the kids are doing these days.

*slowly licks PS3_Wizard's feminine middle finger*

It tastes like shame and contempt. mmmmmmm....

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/27/2015 12:42:22 AM

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Underdog15
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 12:43:27 AM

This has officially become an LV friendly thread. Where is that beautiful sonuvabish?

PS3_Wizard, not that it matters, but I feel compelled to help you out a bit, since this is the first time I've ever experienced you stooping to a level that embarrasses yourself. If you want to see me disagree with Ben, as I do from time to time, literally look no farther than in this very thread a little higher from earlier today. I responded and agreed with something Frosty said, which was in disagreement with Ben's opinion. It's not generally accepted behaviour to base conclusions only on what your mind's eye perceives beyond the scope of reality.

Pro-tip: It is possible to disagree with someone without being an abrasive dick. And even -I- know that.

Don't confuse mutual respect with blind agreement. When I disagree with Ben, he actually defends his opinion with actual, real shit. So do others like World, Xenris, LV, heck even Beam (who plays Devil's Advocate from time to time that can make it hard to know his real thoughts) and Temjinn (who's quite intelligent, just a little passive aggressive for my direct confrontational tastes) defend themselves more than adequately.

But I can't say I ever agree with any of them all the time. But the people that have earned my respect get treated with it in spades, and I will give the benefit of the doubt to anyone that has a strong enough case on a topic to make me seriously reconsider my own view. Unfortunately, this is the internet, and few have that ability. As for defense of others, I'm pretty sure Ben and others are big boys now. I don't do anything to defend anyone. That's just not my M.O. at all. I mean, the most common thing he gets berated for is his perceived "hostility". But that's something I don't give a shit about. So why would I join in that lame, hypersensitivity induced discussion?

That's not defense... that's indifference.

As for stepping out of the house. No one says homie to me. I get any number of things like, "Bye daddy" or "Are you done at 5 today?" or "'Morning, Chris" or in the case of this morning... "Sorry sir, I'll pick it up. I brought a plastic bag." (Nothing like spring-time doggy poo on your front lawn) But not.... "homie". Maybe it's the shoes or tie... or minivan, I guess. lol

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/27/2015 1:10:06 AM

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 7:27:52 AM

*hits blunt*

I simply made a comment about the fact that you have yet to join the current gen fray, something Ben seems to forget when he sometimes takes a dig at KidPresentable for not having a ps4.

And as far as me embarrasing myself, you never been further off-track. You're actually the one looking like a fool with your pathetic waste-of-space "homie" comment.

And YOU in fact are a dick-rider. I wasn't only talking about the fact that you don't disagree with him, but also the FACT that whenever someone crosses the line and starts a civil or uncivil argument with him, you feel the need to interject. Why? Nobody was F'n talking to YOU! Like you said, Ben is a grown man. A VERY intelligent one (although when he throws his temper tantrums he comes off as a whiny baby) at that.

Why do you think everyone who reads the comments sections everyday sporadically see comments like "oh there goes Underdog, the dog protecting his master" and comments like americansheeple up above? (His name is strikingly appropriate in this case)

You have sort of calmed down on it as of late, but I think its only because nobody has really tried Ben as much. But I know the next time someone does say something, you'll come home from your boring 9 to 5 in your soccor mom van, unclip your generic clip on tie, take off your payless loafers and sip on your cheap $3 bottle of wine before logging on to your pawn-shop purchased desktop HP computer and sniff out a way to "start a confrontation"...which you constantly remind us that you enjoy.



Last edited by PS3_Wizard on 3/27/2015 7:36:20 AM

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Underdog15
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 7:48:44 AM

no dice, home slice!

Your wickity wacked.

"Why do you think everyone who reads the comments sections everyday sporadically see comments like "oh there goes Underdog, the dog protecting his master" and comments like americansheeple up above? (His name is strikingly appropriate in this case)"

I don't think that, actually. I typically receive abundantly more upvotes than downvotes. So I'm inclined to believe people typically agree with my point of view. And if people want to think that, that's their business. I'm happy being right, anyways. It's way more fun than being accepted by kids on the internet. Plus, you didn't read my post clearly, so why should I care what you think?

Haters gone hate, aight?

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/27/2015 7:52:10 AM

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 8:03:57 AM

Denial is a helluva drug, ain't it?

I have nothing to hate on you for. Even though I don't like your personality, I enjoy a mojority of your posts.

I also get way more upvotes than down, so wazup?

Just buy a Ps4 already, so I can add ya and we can trash talk over the mic while killing each other vortually!

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 8:10:58 AM

Virtually*

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daus26
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 6:12:28 AM
Reply

It didn't matter to me that hardline didn't get as much flak as the order. Bottom line, to me, the order is average at best, other than the visual which was superb. Instead of focusing on the industries focus, I'd rather discuss how they can make the order better. Seriously, this is nothing new. There are always certain trends that the industry follow. Hardline is simply a fps game that caters to more people, and the fact that it's main selling point is mp, can we be surprised? Too much cutscene, is same as sucky campaign imo, and battlefield never really deliver on that anyway.

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Breadlover
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 6:52:23 AM
Reply

I think we're getting off topic here. The article is mostly about the cutscenes, and not how each of these games scored.

The question raised is, why does Hardline seem to lack the amount and gravity of ridiculing that The Order: 1886 received in the cinematic cutscenes department, when in fact, Hardline seems to have similar offerings in said department's length and quantity? :D

Last edited by Breadlover on 3/26/2015 6:53:15 AM

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 7:52:15 AM

the problem with cutscenes in general is that they remove control from the player. There are excellent examples of games that, have breaks in the action, tell a story yet don't remove control. The Half-Life series is a perfect example of this type of story telling.

Playing The Order is like having the controller yanked out of your hands, seconds after it's your turn to play.

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Ninja_WafflesXD
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 8:16:39 AM
Reply

I haven't played either game, but I think it's fair to assume that Battlefield probably has more gameplay overall....SP or MP otherwise.

So it's not simply a case of the cinematic being long, but there being not a significant amount of gameplay to back it up.
Talking from experience, I can sit through the longest MGS cutscene no problem, but that's I'm confident that there's worthwhile gameplay waiting for me.

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 8:40:19 AM

In The Order's case it is not about cut scene length. It's about frequency, you literally at parts walk to the next cut. In my comments above I sited a specific example from the first 45 mins of the game. The only time the game give you control of it is to walk down a corridor to trigger the next scene.

But of course if you complain about it your a "twitch gamer"

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Ninja_WafflesXD
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:53:05 AM

I don't want to talk about it too much, haven't not played the game, I fear people may be annoyed that I'm forming any sort of opinion >.>

But from some small sequences on youtube that I've watched, it does seem to be a case a very limited interactivity.
I don't even have a problem with it being a short game. Length is irrelevant if the time you play is worth it.
MGR was super short game, but I got tons of hours out of it. It had brilliant replayability.

The game looks gorgeous, that I can't deny, but if there's no substance I'm not going to retain interest.
It's all graphics over gameplay for a lot of games now. Quite sad.

And the notion of anyone being a "twitch gamer" if they don't like The Order is ridiculous. People have different tastes :/

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Deadman
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:44:17 PM

Seriously if you can, rent the game. If possible, get a free trial to gamefly. It isn't a game I could in good consciousness recommend to someone.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 8:51:55 AM
Reply

Because everyone hates Sony!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*takes off tinfoil hat*

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 3/26/2015 9:02:15 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:03:53 PM

Wear a hat that's foil-lined,
In case an alien's inclined...
To probe your butt,
or read your mind.

It may seem a little peculiar,
Maybe a little crazy.
But someday I'll prove (i'll prove, i'll prove, i'll prooove)
There's a big conspiracy!

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slugga_status
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 8:54:05 AM
Reply

A lot of folks got way off topic here. I think it's because a variety of factors that some have mentioned already. To me, those would be the fact that the game has multiplayer and it's a fps. I don't think The Order would've been criticized as such had they offered more variety being a sp only game

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big6
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:34:11 AM
Reply

For the record... I love cut scenes!
I loved them in the Final Fantasy series. I loved them in the MGS series. If done well, they are cool to watch...like a movie. Then you get to play it after the cut scene sets up the play field.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:52:41 AM

word

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:02:14 AM
Reply

If 1886 had multiplayers I bet we wouldn't be having any argument I'm seeing right now.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 11:52:31 AM

Man I dunno, it's silly, the cut scenes are normal and actually a serious dramatic high point in the experience. If someone can't see that then they are probably undereducated and shaky.

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matt99
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:36:37 PM

It's because the SP of Hardline isn't valued that much, a lot of people go straight for the MP and don't even touch the SP so it makes sense that it wouldn't be discussed as much as The Order or criticized as heavily.

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Bio
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 1:50:39 PM
Reply

I'm glad we're still talking about The Order.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 3:52:15 PM

Me too.

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matt99
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 2:33:36 PM
Reply

I think it's because BF is primarily a MP game and the majority of people focus on that. The Order doesn't have MP so the SP is scrutinized a lot more (obviously). Also no one is expecting a great campaign from BF whereas The Order was sold as a story driven SP experience. I'm not making any comments on the quality of either game or on the cutscene debate itself, I'm just saying it makes sense that BF's SP wouldn't be talked about as much as The Order's.
I don't think it's a double standard really, it's just that The Order is a SP game and BF is (primarily) a MP game, if anything this just highlights the need to review the MP and SP components of a game separately.

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ulsterscot
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 4:40:47 PM
Reply

"How Come Nobody Complained About The Long Hardline Cut-Scenes?"

I'm going to hazard a guess and say the simple answer is no one cares about or has played the single player campaign - its Battlefield !

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MRSUCCESS
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 4:45:21 PM
Reply

As much as I love games, the level of immaturity in some of these comments is just mind-boggling. We can discuss critic trends and game opinions in a more professional manner as gamers that have more in common than different.

The fact that Ben is saying that The Order got scrutinized for its cut scenes while Battlefield did not doesn’t mean that he’s defending The Order as much as he’s saying critics are not being consistent. Most of us would agree that Battlefield is more or less a recognized franchise. As sad as it sounds critics of websites such as Gamespot, IGN etc. may not review a recognized franchise the same as a new IP especially from a developer that doesn’t have much influence in the business.

Remember that the grass is not always greener on your side of the fence.

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Crabba
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 6:16:08 PM
Reply

Sadly, probably the same reason a lot of people call great games like Heavy Rain & The Walking Dead "interactive movies", or blame some games "repetitive" or "too linear" or insert-other-catch-word here, while you never see them criticize CoD of being any of those things, even though it's pretty much as repetitive and linear as a game can be...

Why? Because too many critics and gamers are simply mindless tools who only enjoy twitch multiplayer shooters, and anything other type of game or genre is simply "boring" and "has no gameplay"...


Last edited by Crabba on 3/26/2015 6:17:19 PM

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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 9:48:48 PM

The difference to me is that the Walking Dead and Heavy rain was marketed completely differently than the Order.

With HR and TWD, they made it clear from day 1 of the announcement what type of game it was going to be...an interactive experience more reminicent of a movie. HR was on of my top 5 games of last gen. But the vibe I got from the Order was a tradition adventure game more reminiscent of a game like TLOU, Uncharted or GOW. I was sadly mistaken...the story was so mediocre and predictable it's crazy...

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Thursday, March 26, 2015 @ 10:46:06 PM
Reply

yeah thats a good point consistencey is really important as it deters people from thinking ur biased

so if one thing gets critiqued from one game you expect the same across the board

happy gaming

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Squirreleatsman
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 11:49:05 AM
Reply

To be honest I don't get it, with exception of the lack of a true falling action and resolution (because of the cliff hanger ending) I felt that the pacing of the Order 1886 was perfect, none of the cutscenes were filler, they either added to the characters and their motivatiosn or progressed the plot.
Oddly enough a lot of these so called critics who hated the Order for it's "lengthy cutscenes" still harp back to the glory days of Metal Gear Solid which if you skip the cut scenes can be beaten in an hour and half, yet with cutscenes you nearly triple the length.
I enjoyed the Metal Gear Solid series but I don't understand why its ok for it to have ridiculously long boring cut scenes that are simply monologues that add nothing to the plot and if anything make the characters even more laughable.

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TrophyHunter
Friday, March 27, 2015 @ 4:30:43 PM
Reply

I played The Order and I think it's awesome, cut-scenes really set the pace for what is coming.

But, something I didn't liked was those sections were you are forced to walk without doing anything, just walk, slowly walk, those sections kind of bored me.

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Squirreleatsman
Sunday, March 29, 2015 @ 12:00:26 AM
Reply

The Order 1886 is by no means a bad game. Does it have flaws? Yes, too many QTE's and shooting gallery style gun battle could've been fixed by better level layouts...that it the game has two major flaws, there are more minor ones but they in no way ruin the experience.
The story was and is still intriguing, extremely well acted and while it ends on a cliffhanger it does set itself up for a sequel quite nicely.
The ratio of gameplay to cutscene is on par with uncharted, and arguably better paced. Enjoying The Order 1886 doesn't make a player a "casual gamer" or a "sony fanboy", its simply means you enjoyed the game. By telling people what they can or can't enjoy these "so called hardcore gamers" have shown how truly pathetic and immature they are and that all they can do is blindly follow they hype train.

Last edited by Squirreleatsman on 3/29/2015 12:01:31 AM

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