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The Mandatory Game Installations For PS4 Explained In Full

Looks like you'll have to be diligent about cleaning your hard drive.

You may have heard that the digital versions of some PS4 games come in at a hefty 50GB. However, as it turns out, the physical versions of those games require the same amount of hard drive space.

According to Kotaku, regardless of whether you call it installation or caching, you'll still need to save huge chunks of PS4 games to the system's hard drive. This is mandatory.

PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny spoke about how the new console will deal with a disc-based game: It will start to save parts of the game to the hard drive; for instance, Knack will ultimately take up 37GB of space. You'll only have to wait ten seconds or so before you can start playing, but the caching still has to happen. Cerny said Sony actually considered utilizing an auto-delete function that would get rid of installed data that the player hasn't touched in a while. But they decided against it.

The reason they considered it is because we'll obviously have to keep deleting installed data as the generation goes on. Even 1TB hard drives could only hold 20 games at 50GB each (and many of the launch titles come in at 50GB), and the system comes with a default 500GB drive. The bottom line is that the PS4 isn't designed to read games off discs. ...sounds odd, but that's the way it is.

If you opt to go digital, you will have to wait longer for the installation process. And if you're wondering, yes, the Xbox One works the same way.

Tags: ps4, playstation 4, ps4 hard drive, ps4 game size

11/11/2013 10:45:14 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (89 posts)

newchef
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:12:11 PM
Reply

i might be reading this wrong but as i understand this...its going to be a problem for me. I have 60+ games saved on my PS3 and I have gone back to play most of them months, if not years, after i finished them. Having only enough room for 10 game s is ridiculous to me, so hopefully there's another solution that i haven'y realized yet

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 4:05:42 AM

Do you really, seriously need 60+ games installed locally on your machine at all times?
Cause you do realize you can reinstall them again, download them again or whatever whenever you like?

I believe this urge of having everything stored on your drive stems from habits only. You are used to having all games sitting there on a shelf and you feel uncomfortable in not having them "close to you", virtually.

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bldudas1
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 7:19:02 AM

@ Beamboom Not everyone wants to go through reinstalling a game again when they go back to play it. I don't.

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godsman
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:52:15 AM

There shouldnt be much wait to install, considering you play immediately and continue to install in the background. The problem is not installing, its deleting.

It depends on how the ps4 handles install files. Are we required to install full game to hop into one multiplayer game?

Also the game file seem huge to compensate the download version. The disc based game may or may not be optimized in conserving hard drive space

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newchef
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:52:38 PM

its not that i mind waiting for the install its that i dont wanna lose the save data

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coverton341
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 5:08:14 PM

@newchef deleting the game data is not the same as deleting the save data, it's two completely separate things. No worries about that, bud.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:44:58 PM

Ya you won't lose save data, and it's not like on the PS3 where you have to wait for the whole game to install before you play, it installs as you play so really the only inconvenience anyone will experience is having to delete install data.

Not sure why they didn't implement an auto-delete feature that could be turned on if you wanted it.

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monkeypunch
Thursday, November 14, 2013 @ 7:06:44 PM

I don't think it will be a problem. Not all games are going to be 50GB each. I'm guessing it will mainly be the AAA titles. After those you'll have the majority at 10 to 20GB per game and then everything else will be 100MB to 1GB. You'll have maybe 50 to 100 games before it will fill up.

Is the hard drive replaceable? Can you attach an external hard drive?

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Temjin001
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:15:20 PM
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helps pave the way for an all digital PS4 down the road. Without any optical disc drive they'd be able to make a lower cost and slimmer design easily.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 11/11/2013 11:15:41 PM

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Shams
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:58:57 AM

Another bright side, according to Guerrilla Games head Herman Hulst, no more load screens. Three minutes from the time you insert the KZ:SF disc, watch an intro movie, and create your save file, until you can start playing. He says loading screens are a thing of the past now.

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Norrin Radd
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 7:39:11 AM

How do you watch Blu Rays then?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:45:17 AM

That'll be the superslim? Yeah you're probably right.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:48:25 PM

@Norrin Radd I suppose you'll be SOL for Blu Rays but at the rate video streaming services are gaining popularity by the time this happens watching movies off netflix or whatever will be the norm.

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Feryx
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:16:12 PM
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That is so odd. I suppose I don't mind deleting the installed data since I tend not to replay titles often.

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Cesar_ser_4
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:25:41 PM
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I'm pro this if Sony makes it so that the WHOLE game installs on the HDD instead of just parts of it, this will prevent wear and tear on the optical drive due to the constant moving and spinning of the disc needed to read the content, and could shorten loading times. And this could work if when they implement the external HDD support you could transfer games back and forth between devices. This could even go deeper as in the PS4 could format the external HDD in a way so it can only be read by that certain PS4 so as to prevent piracy.

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Jawknee
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:43:44 PM

That's how the Wii U works. Since the largest internal storage is 32gb, games like Batman take up 18gb. I moved it to the external HDD to save internal space for updates and save data. I could always move it back onto the Wii U if I wanted but won't have too because you can play games right off the HDD. Not sure why Sony hasn't done the same.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 4:01:35 AM

That's up to the software designers and not Sony. I would assume most just makes it so the whole game is installed in one go.
I too would prefer it that way.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:29:47 PM
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It's like no one realized this when the CoD:Ghosts case was shown. It literally said on it that there was a mandatory install of like 49gb or some amount. Of course all the games were going to do it.

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Teddie9
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:41:50 PM
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Seems like they made all these decisions to quicken the change to digital distribution. Bothers me quite a bit really.... but whatever I'm used to cleaning out my hard drive of old ps3 games all the time even when it's not remotely close to reaching maximum capacity.

Last edited by Teddie9 on 11/11/2013 11:42:32 PM

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Jawknee
Monday, November 11, 2013 @ 11:45:16 PM
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This is pretty lame. It's bad enough that you have to install large hunks of games on the PS3. Between all the installs, DLC and full games on my HDD, my PS3 is pretty much full. They really need to follow Nintendo on this and make it so you can play games off an external HDD.

Last edited by Jawknee on 11/11/2013 11:45:39 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:01:16 AM

I don't think it matters much at all. If I delete an installed game and go back later, it'll just re-cache as I play. Like with Knack, you can start playing in 10 seconds without it being installed.

If that's the case for most disc-based games, who cares?

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Jawknee
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:18:12 AM

You're right then I suppose since it does make a difference that we won't have to sit there and wait for it to install before we can play it like with the PS3. Really just a storage inconvience at that point which isn't a big deal now that I think about it unless I plan to buy a bunch of stuff like I did with the PS3. Which I don't see myself doing as much of this new gen.

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telly
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:59:09 PM

I agree with Ben completely -- it starts to cache immediately, so it doesn't seem difficult at all to swap in new games and delete old ones, or to reinstall those old games later on when you want. A great-sounding system (though it caught me a bit off-guard, too.)

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MeXiCaNFiGhTe12
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:25:49 AM
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Just another reason why it makes me not want to own the system. I feel like returning Killzone now but I guess I just have to suck it up and not be a little bitc/-/ about it. Here I come PS4 treat me nice.

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berserk
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:09:07 AM

Well , xbox does the same so unless you want a wii u , you have to accept this .

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Gabriel013
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:16:29 AM

Or keep with the current generation of consoles?

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:54:47 PM

Why does this make you not want the system? You don't have to wait to play like you do on the PS3. The only inconvenience is having to delete old install data once in a while, which is a pretty minor inconvenience.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:54:47 PM

woops double post

Last edited by matt99 on 11/12/2013 8:55:07 PM

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duomaxwell007
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:41:06 AM
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w2ll hopefully on a year or two PS4 will have shorter install sizes or no installs at all.. after all remember when ps3 first launched EVERY game had a mandatory 5+ gb install.... and now look at it.. how many games in the last 2-3 years can anyone name that had MANDATORY installs? Im hoping thats how ps4 ends up eventually

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KidPresentable
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:44:18 AM

What qre you talking about? Mass Effect Trilogy was 9 gigs. Tekken Tag 2 was 8 gigs. RAGE was 8 gigs. Deadly Premonition was 4 gigs. GTA 5 was 8 gigs. Resident Evil 6 was 5 gigs. Dragon's Dogma 5 gigs. Duke Nukem Forever 5 gigs. Way more prevalent now then the beginning of the gen when most were actually optional.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:59:38 AM

If there is a mandatory install or not totally depends on the game. If the game is large enough and requires enough data to be read fast, there are no way around moving the data over to the local drive.

Personally I can't recall the last time I played a game straight from disc, it must be years ago.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 1:13:28 AM
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I now have no excuse not to go digital unfortunately. Im not happy about this at all actually. However, if there is a bright side I suppose its that loading is cut down.
Does anyone know of you can swap hard drives in the PS4 without having to reformat and lose data? If so this is okay I suppose. It only reminds me of memory cards though.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:56:42 AM

If you swap drives you will need to install the games on the new drive. I seriously doubt Sony will let you just copy the files from the old to the new drive via your PC or something.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:40:02 AM

Thats not what im asking. With the 360 you can swap out hard drives without reformatting them everytime you put a new one in therefore no data on the hdd is lost or swiped. The PS3 has a mandatory reformat anytime you do this so any data on the hdd is lost when its put in the PS3.

My question was is this the case still with the PS4 or can we swap hdd? Because essentially you can keep certain games on an hdd and just install it when you want to play those games. Space wouldnt be an issue and like I said it would remind me of the memory card days.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:38:59 PM

Ah - now I understand what you mean, sorry. Of that I have no idea. I would not be surprised if you still need to do that though (reformat, that is), since they don't even allow external drives.

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FatherSun
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:06:38 AM
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I was immediately going to upgrade to a 1 or 1.5 Terabyte hard drive for the PS4 but I then thought that if I can play a game in seconds while it downloads I can live with the small drive for now. It will give me time to decide once I know how Gaikai is going to be implemented. I won't be using as much space if I can stream a large amount of games without having them take up space.
I wonder how that is going to work with the Instant Game Collection. That alone has filled the 500 GB drive in my PS3 and I find myself constantly deleting and installing. At this point I have my old fatty filled with all my PS1, PS2, minis and smaller PSN games and the slim has the large games on it. I'd rather not have to do this anymore. Let me have access to my entire game collection without restriction please.

Only 3 days guys. Anticipation is at a fever pitch.

Last edited by FatherSun on 11/12/2013 2:08:06 AM

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johnld
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:17:54 AM
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this could work for the single player portion, what about multiplayer? i dont know how thi works but if i have to install data for multiplayer on a gamei havent played for a while like i do, it doesnt make sense to wait just for a few rounds.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:00:38 PM

Yeah, I'm curious about that too. My guess is it will install the entire MP part separately.

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Ather
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:28:32 AM
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Guess they hate backlogs. Of course, now people can't buy a lot of games. Have to play one from start to finish before the next one. Not sure how this isn't going to hurt sales.

Going digital is the same problem. We'd need way bigger harddrives, or smaller games. They won't make them smaller. Trend is bigger. Can't have bigger harddrives, because we won't pay for it, and they won't increase for free.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:53:22 AM

The savegame files are *obviously* stored. You will not need to start all over if you uninstall and reinstall a game.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/12/2013 3:53:30 AM

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telly
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:57:26 PM

Local and cloud-saved everything, dude. Your historical record will be preserved :)

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:02:10 PM

Ya, I think a lot of people are confusing game installs with save data, which is understandable.

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___________
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:08:00 AM
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50GB a pop, and they only choose to offer a 500GB system?
seriously!?
i mean come on 500GB is what you got in electronics FIVE years ago!
hell my 300 dollar laptop for work came with a 750GB HDD, and that does not have programs up and above of 50GB!
sigh.
and to make that even better you cant use a external HDD!
WTF!?
wheres the logic in that!?
i said it once, twice, a billion times and ill say it again.
the more and more time passes, the more and more im glad i canceled my ps4 preorder!
gotta love it how $ony waits till the week of launch to announce this stuff too.
its all good news till the launch week, then its time to open up the sewers.
typical!
a bit disingenuous towards your loyal customers no?
i always said the departure of father ken would destroy the success of the company, but they dident have to prove me right!

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JROD0823
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 7:40:45 PM

Have fun with your Xbone, we don't want you on the PlayStation Network.

Good riddance!

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:08:52 PM

...you do realize that the only difference you will see is that from time to time you will have to take a couple seconds to delete old game installs, hardly something to get so worked up about.

The 500 GB is a good middle ground between having enough memory to satisfy most people and keeping the price reasonable. If you really need more memory you can upgrade the hard drive, it's not that expensive.

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Lawless SXE
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:44:48 AM
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Yeah... I called this back when they released that little fact sheet, and I'm still miffed at it. I just really, really hate that idea of having to juggle your cached data when it is at that ridiculous size. Sure, it may not be so difficult to delete, and the caching may be a faster process on the PS4 than it is on the PS3, but this is something that I'd expect from a PC game.

As far as I'm concerned, consoles shouldn't have to deal with this kind of crap.

Looks like the same principle applies with the Xbox One, although it also seems as though there may be a longer gap of time between putting the disc in and being able to play the game.

I really can't fathom this.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 11/12/2013 3:51:47 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:53:59 AM

This is one of the negatives of console becoming more PC like, I'm already used to juggling space but knowing it will get worse troubles me.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 3:52:24 AM
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I don't understand how this can come as a surprise, especially since most games already on the PS3 has a mandatory install.

It's simple logic: The more data that needs to be read, the more read speed matters. And a blu-ray disk is pure thick sirup compared to a hard drive and especially a SSD.

Would you guys really prefer to sit and wait for an eternity on loading screens each and every time you play a game, over and over, instead of moving the data to a faster drive just once, and then get a more fluid gaming experience with much shorter loading screens and hold-ups?

I mean, come ON! Seriously, you guys are a few notches too anal about this whole hard drive thing.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:51:30 AM

It's a multipronged problem. I think the bigger deal is as console gamers we enjoy the ease of use of a console, constantly managing hard drive space is a problem/time waster for PC gamers that we like to avoid. This also means all the games we own (for people who have more than a few titles) will not be immediately available to play, we will be plagued by warnings to make more space.

Now the fraction of our library that we DO have access to without a hassle will be smaller than it was on PS3 where the biggest mandatory install was 8 gigs.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:13:32 AM

Hang on Beam, are you saying a game with loading screens is a more fluid experience than one without!? How do you work that one out lol...don't think I read that right.

Also, do you not think we're going backwards with these ridiculous install sizes for the sake of no loading screens? Naughty Dog have managed that with no mandatory install since 2007. You're waiting 2-3 minutes tops when you start the single player, and you're not engaged at this point, so...go make a coffee or something...

I mean, if every game is going to be close to 50GB, 1TB doesn't seem too big anymore. I haven't thought this all through yet, but doesn't constant caching sound really loud? And don't you have mini-loading moments when it starts? I remember GT5 did something like this, and it was tedious. So I'd have to go through this all the time if I'm constantly uninstalling games...



Last edited by Ludicrous_Liam on 11/12/2013 9:27:52 AM

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:01:10 AM

That's obviously not what I wrote, Ludi. No install to local drive equals longer loading screens.

Naughty Dog do the clever thing of feeding you video clips (cut scenes) while they load. There's a long cut-scene between each set piece because they need to load a lot of new stuff to set up the next.

So to the real discussion here: Does even 1tb cut it?
Let's look at the numbers. 500gb of ~50gb = 10 big games installed at once. Do you *ever* play ten games at the same time? I don't. I usually play one, *maybe* two. Out of 10 big games purchased during a 2-3 year span, I *maybe* want to keep 2-3 of them installed long after I completed them, for various reasons. There will also be a few smaller PSN games that might sum up to around 50gb (for simplicity).
That leaves room for 6-7 other games.
500gb is not a lot of room, no, this is one area where Sony skimped in to keep the price down. I would recommend everyone to buy a larger drive.

But what you all just need to adapt to is the idea of not needing to have everything installed at all time and for all eternity. Games are played in periods, and for a vast majority of them you don't really return to them again in a long time - many even never.
And with digital distribution you can always get the install files again, for the entire lifetime of the console.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:09:46 AM

@World,

you are right in that much of the charm with consoles are their simplicity, and that we fast approach the realms of PC gaming now. In fact the separation has become extremely blurry - if possible at all.
And I am very curious as to how Sony has solved this challenge. Cause one thing is for sure; The PS3 interface were *not* good for this. It just plain sucked.

But even during the PS3 years we did see improvements to the interface in these respects, so I feel pretty certain that Sony is well aware of this challenge.

It will be extremely interesting to explore and experience the new interface. I am hoping Sony has come up with a clever application that makes disk management a lot easier - maybe even transparent.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/12/2013 10:15:33 AM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:49:10 AM

I don' t know how Naughty Dog do it, because they don't use video clips for loading - you can still skip every pre rendered cutscene with no loading (minus TLOU).

Even the in-game cutscenes where stuff is being loaded, the game is still running. I've had glitches where I'd shoot just before one, and it would change dramatically, and can even die in one. What I'm saying is, you really don't notice any loading at all.

Most of the loading happens as you're playing, like the massive amount of data...it's all streaming in. It actually takes advantage of bluray rather than chuck it all on someone's HDD. If you're gunna do that...what's the point in even having the disc!? Sony invested in bluray, and now when we're at the point that 50GB games are the norm (the capacity of a bluray) and we have 50GB installs? WTF?

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 11:01:32 AM

You don't get the skip option before everything is loaded in the background.
ND are not alone in doing it this way - we see the same in Dead Space 3 for instance. In fact whenever you do see a cutscene with a "skip" option eventually popping up, you can almost take for granted it's cause the background tasks are done.

But keep in mind that the PS3 has an extremely tiny bit of memory. 256mb is not much at all. So obviously it didn't take too long to load.
With the PS4 we got at least five gigabytes of RAM available for the developers. That's 20 times more.

The problem with blu-ray is the transfer speed. Bluray is used for physical distribution of bits and bytes. The "install" is to move those bits an bytes over to somewhere they can be read faster.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/12/2013 11:05:17 AM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 11:24:49 AM

Nop Beam, trust me you can skip any pre rendered cutscene at any time. All background loading is done in-game after the initial loading screen. Amazing, I know :) Dead Space and Killzone 3 do use the technique you're talking about though.

I should mention I have no problem with managing my HDD because I do it all the time lol (160GB PS3). I just felt like arguing.

Last edited by Ludicrous_Liam on 11/12/2013 11:28:03 AM

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Jawknee
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 1:07:18 PM

ND caches everything. That's why it takes a long time to load in the beginning. The Last of Us, U2 and 3 caches a ton of data at the initial start up and that data remains there until you play a different game. That's how ND is able to create loadless experiences on the PS3. It's not loading during cutscenes like KZ3 or even Metroid Prime 3. It dumps all the needed data onto the drive at the beginning.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:45:24 PM

Aha Jawk - clever. Sounds plausible indeed, thanks. It's not then per definition "loadless", it's just reads the data a lot faster than to read from bluray disc. One could almost say it does a "mini install" of itself each time it starts.

Cause data can't just magically appear in memory just by itself, Ludicris. It has to be read into memory at some point in time prior to drawing a scene. So it just had to happen during the cutscenes.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/12/2013 2:49:44 PM

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JSHidaka
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 6:38:03 AM
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Well, in that part Nintendo is winning... they let you use your external storage to save your games..

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 1:01:29 PM

I can save my PS3 games feeding thru a usb/SD card slot, no problem, no arguement on that.

Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 11/12/2013 1:04:15 PM

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Ishkur
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 7:16:30 AM
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Bring back cartridges! .. :D

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Simcoe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:11:08 PM

I know you're being cheeky, but could you imagine?! New (cartridge) games (PS4) would probably cost at least 50% more. If people could download a game at the regular price, I think you'd see a huge jump towards digital distribution.

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Ishkur
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 6:19:53 PM

Maybe I would be more careful with my purchases then :) The "digital revolution" doesn't do much for me either :P So I'm only half-jesting :)

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bldudas1
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 7:24:16 AM
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I don't mind if an install is like what they are on the PS3, but like the whole disk? Crazy, crazy, crazy.

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berserk
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:14:25 AM

If it was a 30 + min install yes but it s 10-20 sec. So like Ben said somewhere here , who cares .

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berserk
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:11:07 AM
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Better then having them make it like Mgs 4 never ending installation :(

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 8:43:20 AM
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*Throws a chair*

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 1:09:58 PM

I would a throw a cheap chair outside, but not inside cause I don't want to break anything.

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PC_Max
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:40:21 AM
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Hmmm.So... the incentive to download is? Where as one could simply delete the game installed and then reinstall more easily via a disc.

I know the far future is where we no longer really need to own something or have a huge library on ourselves. We download/stream content, keep it or delete it, and possibly re-download it if we so wish.

And this might sound better for the casual gamer rather than the hardcore gamer or people like me... a gamer.

The other underlying issue is with this complete install on a console. And I know Sony will be tracking this (I just read the new licensing agreement I had to agree to so I could go online). Could this also be a prevention? I know Sony said you could install the game on multiple systems with a disc and not so with DL, but could this be changed down the road.

Its all speculation and I am not on top of all the news, but....this is starting to keep me away from the the new consoles now and wait and see in the next year or the one after that.

I trust Sony more than MS, but they are a corporation and it is business. And they will follow where the money is. I don't know. Its a changing industry and changing attitudes. Out with the old and in with the new. :/

Keep playing!

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kraygen
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:30:12 AM
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With the price of hard drives these days I'm wondering why they didn't opt for a larger hard drive standard. The only reasonable explanation I can see is console size.

While waiting 10 seconds for a game to start isn't a big deal, how long is it going to take to delete data? They never said we could delete in the background, this could be quite annoying.

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Beamboom
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:44:26 AM

2.5" drives are fast becoming the new standard also for regular PCs, with SSDs being of that size.
I also do wonder if not those disks - being designed for laptops - have better heat management (ergo less heat).

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Simcoe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:21:33 PM

Shouldn't take any time to delete the data. I'm sure it'll be just like a PC; when you delete a file on your PC the only thing that gets removed is the index that says where that file was written at on the hard drive. The data will get "deleted" right before it gets written with new data.

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kraygen
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 @ 12:33:01 AM

Sorry I didn't mean size as in 2.5" but why not use 1TB drives. Could do a single 1TB drive standard with an extra slot so you could add more space for those of us who don't mind messing with the drives.

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Beamboom
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 @ 3:24:01 AM

Ah - that's obviously to save money, to get the price down to where they want it to be. The drives with larger storage capacity are not any bigger in size. :)

I'm happy they did it this way rather than to for example skimp in on memory or cpu or something else we can't later replace.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/13/2013 3:24:57 AM

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Brighat
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:56:55 AM
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I usually only have 5-8 games at most so space won't be an issue and I rarely used the PS3 for anything else. I hope the games won't get bigger going forward in regards to installs.

Only problem is that Canada's ridiculous limited bandwidth is going to prevent me from buying a lot of downloadable retail games. They were a big part of my recent PS3 period. Once a month is all I can buy unless they increase the bandwidth limit or do away with it.

Backlogs are still possible. You just can't install the game now.

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Simcoe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:42:29 PM

I don't think that "we" as a country have limited bandwidth, it's that the companies that provide our service are in cahoots with one another trying to nickle and dime us at every possible opportunity. They can't tell us one year that there isn't enough capacity on the network for all their customers to download more than 25-100GB/month then the following year offer IPTV with enough capacity for each household to run up to 6 HDTV's.

I actually downloaded Uncharted 3 over two months (billing periods), when it was available on PS+ earlier this year. I was actually dreading having to upgrade my PS3 version of BF4 digitally, until my local game store said that they'll be offering the same upgrade via disc trade-in.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:22:10 PM

It's not the country it's just the ISP, I live in the GTA and have unlimited bandwidth.

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Vivi_Gamer
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 11:13:28 AM
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I can see this becoming a annoying quickly. How much is the PSN download size for a full game? If it is the same, then what is the point in having discs... I have 60+ games on my PS3 as of now and my HDD is pretty much at its limit. I hate the idea of switching back and forth installs. If all this is correct that service to play a game during the install better be fast and capable of handling content later in the game.

On a side note, it's really infuriating we have to wait up to the launch of a console hear here the true Pros and Cons. I wish wish they'd state such things much earlier and be done with it.

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Simcoe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:49:22 PM

The disc is now merely a software delivery system. A lot of places in the world still deal with data caps on their internet service. Also, I think publishers and console manufacturers still rely on stores to display and sell physical copies of games to casual gamers that may decide to buy games on impulse more than anything else.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 1:11:01 PM

Ben made the point that we won't have to wait for the install to compete before playing the game so switching installs won't be as much of a problem except we will have to manually delete unused data which I see becoming a bit of nuecense.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:26:25 PM

I don't get why people are so upset about this, it's not really a con...more of a minor inconvenience when you have to take a couple seconds to delete old game installs. Other than that you won't notice any difference, in fact it'll even be faster than the PS3 because you won't have to wait at all really to start playing the game.

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telly
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 12:54:58 PM
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As I understand it, games begin to install extremely quickly to the hard drive the moment you put them in the PS4. I read somewhere that from the time you insert Killzone: Shadow Fall, to the time you start watching the introductory 90 second movie, to the time you're playing the campaign, is about 2/2.5 minutes. The game continues to load entirely onto the harddrive while you play.

In other words, when you need to clear older games off your hard drive and install new ones, the entire process will take no more than a few minutes. Sounds pretty easy to swap games out and revisit old favorites, if you ask me. And the benefit is virtually no load times (and, I've no doubt, less wear and tear on the blu ray drive itself.) Excellent feature.

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EddPm6
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 2:13:30 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EDIU5IW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3UKFISTNRSNX3&coliid=I26Q9B7RJ5X1TD

Should solve most of this problem

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DarthNemesis
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 5:52:02 PM
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I don't understand why it is not 5GB at most like the PS3. I do not want to install and reinstall games which is the point of having physical media. It might as well be digital only if you still need to install the entire game. I constantly go back to play GOW and Uncharted dispute buying new games. New consoles are supposed to move forward with convenience and tech, not backwards.

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matt99
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 9:34:36 PM

Well first, it's an inconvenience that can be solved by upgrading the hard drive if you're really bothered but remember it installs as you play, so you only need to wait about 10 seconds to start playing and I'd say having to take a couple seconds to delete old game installs once every 8-10 games is more convenient than having to wait for the entire 5GB to install before you play a game.

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Simcoe
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 @ 10:43:40 PM
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It should be noted that GiantBomb is reporting that not every PS4 title will require a massive install. Seems like it's up to the developers how much game data they want to install on the HDD. They state in a video that Madden NFL 25 only requires 16 MB install on the PS4. I don't think he misspoke as they listed a number of games that had GB install sizes and some that had MB install sizes.
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/another-playstation-4-unboxing/2300-8209/
About 6:20 into video.

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Beamboom
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 @ 3:29:44 AM

It's obviously depending on how the software is designed, but I suspect most games will be designed for digital distribution with the next gen, and thus will require the entire game to be installed on the hard drive.

But personally I still believe most will be far less than 50gb. I don't think I have a single game on my PC that comes close to 50gb, and I can't really understand why the console games should require that much more space on average.
Games like Assassins Creed 3, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3... They all are *far* less than 50gb.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/13/2013 3:31:11 AM

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Simcoe
Friday, November 15, 2013 @ 9:15:23 PM

Giantbomb is full of it. Checked an actual Madden case and it clearly says 16 GB.

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PlatformGamerNZ
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 @ 4:08:32 AM
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well thats just great i was hopeing i was gunna be able to read most of it from teh disc but even the likes of me will probably have to get a huge hard drive to store all the games i'll be getting.

don't know i u guys heard about the psn usage termsof use changing so now we have the spystation 4 ins't that great i feel hirt i've trusted them for years and they do this i'd anymore

happy gaming =)

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CedrictheDragon
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 @ 6:30:32 AM
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I don't see a problem. PS3 was a pain because it took ages to install and update to latest version but this lets you play as it installs and updates.

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